Deconstructing PDA:What Lies at The Heart of "Pathological Demand Avoidance" PDA Part 2

What does it feel like to BE autistic and demand avoidant? What triggers the anxiety, confusion and trauma of PDA? After discussing the presently limited public understanding of PDA, we now shift perspective to a personal story - a journey of discovery to find the true feelings behind this complicated and frustrating barrier to full participation & inclusion in modern life.
#EngageAutism #AutismAcceptance #actuallyautistic
*Lord Lucan (John Bingham) was an English peer who abruptly vanished in 1974 under a dark and mysterious cloud of intrigue & violence. The circumstances of his disappearance and possible whereabouts and/or fate have been the subject of considerable speculation since, and his name - a byword for "doing a vanishing act".
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[@ByrdieFae]

"If someone has to ask me to do something, then it feels like I've already failed." ME! THAT IS ME. AAAAAAH

[@zacara8469]

This!

[@andoryuu3]

22:05 - The hardest part of this scenario is being in a situation where you need to explain it. Trying to explain sometimes makes people angrier because they think it's only an excuse and nothing more. Wrestling with it for our benefit is like trying to psychologically trick ourselves.

[@Autistamatic]

It's been a loooong time coming, but here's the second video in the PDA series. Obviously things haven't been a bed of roses in the Autistamatic camp for a while, hence the delay, but there's also been some BIG changes recently. I'll explain more in a video in a couple of weeks, but for now, it's great to be back and I hope you all enjoy not only this video, but the many others planned and in production. EDIT: I'm having trouble getting the uploaded subtitles to work properly for some reason. Until it's solved, please use the auto-generated subs.

[@autjoy]

Hello Quinn. Really good to see you are back.

[@Wyolibrarian]

Glad to see you back! I hope life is treating you more gently now.

[@Handle_Is_Not_Necessary]

Thanks so much for your invaluable insights. You've really helped me understand my quirks and why social accounting is so exhausting for me. I'm really looking forward to your watching your next videos. All the best Quinn.

[@Lavastaramus]

Say, did you get new glasses?

[@Autistamatic]

Hi. I update my specs quite often - usually once a year or so. I'm very finicky about my vision@@Lavastaramus 👓

[@TheRev142]

It’s the other side of the equation that has been hardest for me: the entitlement that people above me on the social hierarchy feel to place obligations on me without obligation to themselves. If I agree to them ahead of time, like agreeing to perform the job duties I’m being paid for, it’s not too bad. But oftentimes, the obligation is to submit to bullying, to go along with an obvious lie, or something equally awful. My teachers expected me to allow them to embarrass me in front of peers without complaint. My bosses expect me to submit to abuse and act as if I deserve it. The authorities who use their power to abuse the poor and disadvantaged (a group I’m often a part of) then cry foul when you call their behavior what it is. Most dominance assertions are treated as rights in our world (and what is a right but a claim of obligation against another?) and that state of affairs is what enrages me, and fills me with terror.

[@lisamoag6548]

my rights balanced with the other ones rights no one has the right to impose their will upon another each one has the right to say yes or no and ask why without undue pressure or forced by physical or emotional bullies to be a slave be kind be respectful be safe stop the bossy ones co operate get along not better than but part of the relationship one to one stop bullys say no.

[@chey7691]

Their rights end where another's begins. When your rights infringe on others it is no longer a right, both morally and legally. No matter the social and societal pressures molded by rhetoric and emotions. Don't feel bad for just sticking up for yourself. It gets called "defiance" like it's a sin, when it's a obligation to defend your rights.

[@thewildybeast]

I find that I am unable to carry out the task that I have been asked to do, but I am then able to carry out a task that I have been asked to do previously. It’s as if seeing the new task in front of me, triggers me into understanding how best to go about carrying out the previous task.

[@RaunienTheFirst]

I really like the understanding of PDA as "Pervasive/Persistent Drive for Autonomy". That the root cause is a feeling of a lack of autonomy, of being controlled, of your freedom being denied. This really speaks to something that I experience quite frequently: when someone asks me to do something I am already doing or was intending to do, I intensely feel something that I struggle to describe. Anger? Frustration? Close, but not quite. And it's quite different to the feeling of, say, being asked to do something that I think is silly, pointless, or unnecessary. A major component of *that* is frustration and anxiety. Anxiety around potential negative consequences for asking reasonable questions, and frustration at having to do something I don't understand the purpose of or crosses a minor boundary that I have failed to communicate. Although, I also like your social currency/debt model. I also avoid asking for or giving favours, and now I wonder if the reason is related to why all my bills, where possible, are paid in advance without me even noticing it's left my bank account. Similarly, I try to ensure I pay for my own drinks, and I even feel a spike of anxiety when my brother (rightly) points out that, since I provided transportation to and from the pub, he feels as though he owes me a drink.

[@rabbitcreative]

I wonder if being asked to do something I already planned on doing, I'd becomes confused as to the "why am I doing this?", because if I do this thing now, I'm doing it for my reasons, and someone else's reasons. Maybe that diminishes intrinsic motivation towards the task. Maybe if I dislike the person who made the demand, and now I can't meet my own goal without also helping someone I dislike.

[@aliceangl3563]

For me, my Mother took advantage of my feelings of obligation first to convince me that not meeting her expectations was a personal failure, then later, she'd use that feeling she fostered and her belief that I "owe her for raising me" to make me feel horrible for turning down any interaction wih her abusive self. I've long since kicked her out of my life, cut contact wih her and even changed my phone number. I just note it because I find it terrifying how hard she was manipulating me, how much psychological theory she was leveraging against me, and makes me feel more justified in kicking her out of my life. I have PTSD from her doing this, and it makes working terrifying once you factor in the way my bosses treat me for my autism, often using the same talking points, that Im lazy, faking my meltdowns, throwing tantrums (which is what she called my meltdowns), and other degrading terms... It all reminds me of her and sets off my issues.

[@llmeekos]

I feel you. My mother would purposely dysregulate me in front of my peers. She blamed me for her alcoholism (she was one before I was born). Would call me a sociopath. I am PDA Autistic and the years of trauma will never be forgiven. She made me lose my sparkle.

[@wanderinggamer5079]

@@llmeekos She took your sparkle not your Shine. Good Luck!

[@eladhen2]

I was called lazy so much as a kid... It burned my soul but I just felt that doing what I was asked for was even worse for me...

[@humanBonsai]

I feel that executive functioning issues are the main underlying cause for my PDA. It is the inability to process the demand and how it can be implemented, and how it will fit into my day which causes me to panic and reject the demand. Give me time to process it and I will commonly get stuck in with enthusiasm

[@tezzerii]

I'm the father of a pda kid. She was a nightmare, such hard work - altho people outside the family loved her to bits ; it was like she came home, hung up her halo and brought out the horns ! She grew up into a lovely and smart young woman, and got herself diagnosed with autism and pda, and we all began to understand. But the biggest shock as I learned about all this was - she got it from ME !!!

[@lorifarmer9692]

I was talking to my sister about this today! Parts theraphy To heal the PDA I need to pair it with its opposite part The pda is formed bc I was forced to give my love, my body or my energy to someone else who "needed" my love (energy) I had no choices, I was a prisoner The demand avoidance was bc I knew the truth. Real love is given freely, not forced. Forcing someone to give it to you, makes it into something dark We fear that dark park inside us bc we know how it feels to be on the receiving end. We don't want to afflict that pain on others So we avoid that part of ourselves. But by leaving the part in the dark, separate from us, we loss out on the good, hidden in the dark. in the dark. This part can ask for help, this part can say "I need" this part can keep me from taking on things that aren't my responsibility. By keeping it in the dark, I am daming myself. Just like the world has done to me. I do not accept that the dark in me is bad. It quiet literally is misunderstood. Just like me. Janet So you are saying we can heal and then our bodies won't go into fight/flight mode when we are presented with a demand? Me Yes that's what I've was trying to say Bc we will be able to say no and have the power. That makes it our choice

[@HappyHoney41]

You hit it all spot on, good Sir. As a child being constantly corrected and directed may have something to do with it. I have PDA so bad I push back when I tell myself to do things. I still naturally want to push back and not be forced. It's like having your freedom to do as you choose taken away. It takes a lot of effort to overcome, in order to get things done. At least being aware that I'm going to not want to do things I 'need' to do; helps me just accept that it is PDA and that makes it easier to push through anyway.

[@kmcq692]

Thank you. Yes. Letting myself remember that I actually have made my own decisions under my own auspices at certain moments in my life makes me open my heart to myself. Even allowing that maybe I have already demonstrated to myself this capacity. That if I want to, I can let it glimmer. When I deem it an appropriate and necessary time! Not before,!

[@zoronqueen]

Sometimes it's not the fault of the parents who may not have the skills. I find this video is great at giving insight into the internal struggle against oneself. Social credit is constantly changing in context and situation, and it may be easier for a nerotypical person to pick up nuisance as they aren't fighting themselves. The Darth Vader scene was particularly helpful. Thanks Quinn😊

[@TransNationale]

For me I've always found that what people see as "avoiding a demand" is merely me engaging in regulatory behaviours to help me be capable of completing the task from start to finish. Otherwise I will be forced due to sensory issues, unconsidered complications during the task and general inefficiencies. And the allistics of my life often gets frustrated, because rather than asking me if I am working on the task, they make an assumption due to allistics norms that I am avoiding or procrastinating the task. Meanwhile I may be for example preheating the oven for consistent cooking, making myself coffee so I can stimulate my nervous system and going to the bathroom so I can't be interrupted during the task for my bodily functions which may harm the cooking quality. And because I am interested in not just doing a task, but doing it well and with competency, I don't take shortcuts that others may take, such as putting food in while it's preheating, harming the consistency of the food.

[@PeterParker-fx9dl]

Preheating the oven is such a great analogy.

[@labyrinth_rat]

This has put language to something I’ve dealt with since elementary school. Damn. Thank you so much for your thorough, spirited analysis.

[@iansantiago6526]

He's actually alive, thank god.

[@Autistamatic]

Despite the many challenges of recent times, yes I'm still kicking! Thanks for being happy about it😁

[@kellypawspa]

It sounds a little like he was just sick of the obligation of HAVING to make the video in the time that others think it should have arrived, instead of making it when the inspiration filled him. 😊. GEEZE PEOPLE!!!!But I can't can't really know that, of course. Just entertaining myself with my own mental scenario in my mind....

[@Dtiic5iyxixg]

@@Autistamaticseems like all our community has reached that time of year when burnout is no longer avoidable…. Hope you are okay.

[@MrAndywills]

@@Autistamatic carry on kicking, Quinn. And make sure you kick hard. 👍

[@Shibby27ify]

Strong passive aggressive PDAer here. In grade school, I would not turn in school work or study for tests. Made me endlessly in trouble for grades, despite as I later learned, I'm gifted in some domains of learning and knowledge. Made them crazy. Now I forget social needs and obligations. They're just not on my radar. And I'm not even really introverted. It's like something in me doesn't want life asking me to do anything.

[@aneeha73]

This is phenomenal! In my opinion your channel has the best content on autism and related topics.

[@otakus1216]

I agree

[@Kadaspala]

I'm a 38 year old autistic person who themself has introspected in depth on the complex nuanced nature of my neurodivergence: I still found this to be astoundingly insightful and very helpful in developing an even greater understanding of myself and my relationships. Thank you so much, this is important work you're doing and I assure you younger and future generations will be thankful -- though not in any sense that implies social obligation ;)

[@eubique]

This is a tremendous job of forensic self examination you've done here. Indeed amazing how a judgmental view (which must often be internalised) gets it so upside down, or at least 90 degrees skewed.

[@rfishrfish4242]

I am a 55-year-old autistic, dyslexic person, ADHD, I also have face blindness I recognize people not by their name or their face, but by their gate their hair my brain just works. That way every task were demanded that’s been demanded from me at work or in my life I go through everything you’ve talked about and then add on the dyslexia and Face blindness which is really a part of my autism. Apparently I’m told basal cold expert.. I live in Canada and I’ve been to so-called special schools all my life, Dyslexic but I found it most of us were autistic. There are so many people misdiagnosed that are autistic. For example, Tourette’s dyslexia And so on. Now, most of my friends that I went to school with have committed suicide and it’s a big part of what you’re talking about. You’re doing us solid great big favour everyone should share this to their friends and family. You’re such an advocate for us teacher you are truly a blessing Sharing your lived experiences with us. It’s truly eye-opening. I believe you’re gonna save a lot of lives because of what you’re doing thank you for being being yourself your authentic self. It’s so refreshing to see you don’t see much of that these days thank you very much for all your hard work You’re blessing mentoring others love you channel. I’m so thankful I found it you’re helping me come out of a dark space. Same Same as me!

[@ThatWeirdLady2519]

This video is so relatable. I remember being like this as a kid. I still am, but I handle it differently now.

[@RedSntDK]

Reading about PDA on wikipedia is very different from what you portray here, but I feel very much like you do. Shamebound, actually isolating to avoid obligations and IOU's. And I have tactics to talk around issues which might land some social responsibility on my shoulders.

[@dharma404_]

I watched one of your videos. Then I watched another. And another. Thank you for being so articulate and effective with your words, it's a rare gift.

[@susanbeever5708]

Great to see and hear you! You nailed it once again PDA. The social debt is priceless.

[@daryayermokhina9232]

I think for me PDA grows from perfectionism. I always want to do things right and would try hard to do so, I feel somewhat like an „obligation” to put my soul into it. But when I get criticized after all the effort I put into completing the task, it feels as „was my dedication not enough?!”. Then I lose any desire to do the thing again in the future, cause I know that no matter how hard I try, it will never be enough. And I don’t want to be criticized for not being enough. The worst part is that all of that leads to not being able to mind anything at all, cause nothing matters enough to do it, unless you really want to.

[@NeurodiverJENNt]

I have recommended your videos on PDA to many people. You were the first to articulate feelings I've felt that I couldn't put words to - that PDA we feel for even our own demands of ourselves

[@linden5165]

Great to see you back! ☺ I think delving in to our personal experience is exactly the way to understand the dynamics of what we experience. I'm autistic, not PDA, but very demand avoidant at times...and not at others. I'm naturally diligent (or maybe learned that as a social acceptance strategy very young), feel warmth when some people ask me for things, but total rebellion and defiance when others do. I'm a rule-follower if it's for safety. If there is a social trend or collective action I feel compelled to go against it with strong anti-herding instinct. Unless it is in line with my beliefs and sense of social justice then I enjoy going along with others. I physically can not speak customary phrases (please, thank you) if I feel a lot of expectation to. But if I'm free to say them from my heart then it's easy. It is very complex.

[@pebblebrookbooks4852]

You have a new ADHD subscriber!! 🙋🏻‍♀️Great job - thanks for sticking out to complete this one!! I love autistic ppl - y'all have the patience to spell out stuff for us while neurotypicals have already rolled their eyes and already gracefully bounced an hour ago.

[@marysupernova7780]

While you were away, i found ur channel. And since then, your work has been helping me, and helping me help my son better than i could have without it. Thank you ❤ I'm so grateful to see this new content!

[@karrenrex]

At 12:00 and on you put to words how I have always experienced socializing and social relationships and why it causes so much distress and anxiety.... I've unpacked much of it, I've known that I perceive relationships as transactional, way more than I'd wish them to be, even in stark contrast with my own moral understanding of friendship, and I've identified triggers in very similar ways to what you describe.... but I'd never until now heard someone else describe the very same experience. This made me realize there's more than just adverse childhood experiences that have shaped this pattern of demand avoidance in my mind, that the core that sits at the root of it is part of my nature and not just trauma, and the trauma has compounded to it rather than create anything out of thin air. And it makes me understand it in a whole new way.... and if before that I felt there is something to so-called PDA that resonates, but I could not quite pinpoint it, nor could I say I wholeheartedly relate to it, now I understand and now it resonates, I found the way it does, and that is one more sore question answered. And for all that, I thank you. I write this because I know it will matter to you. Because I know what it's like to feel your insight has helped somebody else. Maybe autistics are in a way predisposed to value each other's individual experiences all the more because we feel how starkly unique each perspective is and how starkly unique each struggle. Maybe because of that as well as because of feeling so misunderstood for so long, but finding someone to whom you can so deeply relate, is more than astonishing.

[@Globeglider]

Incredibly eloquent.

[@freerideziege6047]

Ok, Where is the camera. You unveiled your cover by showing your "real" timemachine. That explains how you make videos about problems I have now when you release them. I am allways happy to see your videos in my notifications 😁

[@BartzAJohnsonJr]

I could cry over the understanding I felt.

[@EsporHB]

Your PDA works about exactly as mine.. And it was so good to hear you talk about it. My therapist says PDA is something only children have and vanishes when growing up. She has no interest in listening or understanding these troubles.

[@jordonlongley6576]

I’m aware that people know I’m different and I ask questions because I know that people fear the unknown and might try to set me up for failure in order to get rid of me. If I told a therapist about this, I’d be called paranoid. This has actually happened to me countless times, so it cannot be paranoia. Pathological paranoia is being paranoid for no legitimate reason.

[@holmavik6756]

I know this all to well…

[@Aury]

Really glad to see you post again! Thank you for explaining the experience, cause every time I see an allistic person explaining this, all I hear is them describing executive dysfunction, most likely because many of them can't tell the difference or dont bother to try. Having consistently had mental health experts calling my every behaviour avoidance in recent time, it has gotten really hard to approach anything like this without a deep cynicism, so it is really helpful to know that this is an actual occurrence, even though so many are massively misclassifying it. (It was particularly infuriating to have recently had both a psychiatrist and therapist who they work with, classify everything that I get joy from, as avoidance, because its not things that they personally consider worthy or something)

[@rossgeography]

This video has been so helpful to me this week - I got accepted for something I 'wanted' but was very confused about how angry I was now that it felt like an obligation.. hoping the series on PDA is rounded out soon - you've really captured all the knotty complex emotions PDAers go through. Many thanks, Ross :)

[@Autistamatic]

Hi. I'll be returning to it hopefully later this year.

[@tiffanylbacon]

This video has brought up so much pain. You have so eloquently explained how I have felt my entire life. I am newly diagnosed and my emotions are so raw. Your videos are so helpful. You put into words what I cannot. I truly appreciate what you do for the neurodivergent community. And the neurotypical community because maybe some of them just might stop and think about what we go through, have compassion, shift their perspective, and give us space to be who we are without judgment.

[@aleea7853]

Pervasive demand for autonomy!! ❤ That is me to the CORE. But how about ABUSIVE DEMAND EXHAUSTION? I know for fact that my PDA stems from a lifetime of having more demanded from me than I was capable of, and also way more than should EVER have been demanded of me.

[@cylestine]

Thank you.. thank you so much. I honestly can't stop crying - the *relief* I feel.. 😭 You have made me feel deeply seen and understood, and that is truly the *highest* compliment I could possibly pay. Thank you for making this video. Thank you so, so much. For the laughs, the amazing presentation, the truth told, just.. For everything. 😭

[@my-rocket]

Thanks Quinn. After 30+years working in the tech industry, where many are on the spectrum, this helps me understand so many interactions which I have had.

[@coryharris8417]

A wonderful treatment of a complicated concept. I appreciate your effort and heard quite a few points that were exactly the same in my own history. Thank you.

[@hirval901]

I am very glad you are still active on the channel! No emotional debt involved, I am just happy you are back and grateful for all the content you posted which helped me so much and helped me help others :)

[@pilar289xD]

Thanks for posting, looking forward to the next videos. Hope you are well.

[@PeteLittle1970]

So good to see you popping up on my KZbin notifications again Quinn!

[@UnmitigatedMind]

Thank you for taking the time to make this information available! I would say “you have no idea”, yet it appears that you do!

[@user-et1kf7dr8i]

This has been so wonderfully helpful in understanding myself. The need for autonomy and avoidance of social and emotional transactions and fear of letting others down. Especially not keeping a tab on what I do for others but the great fear of others needing to “cash in” on what they’ve done for me.

[@robscovell5951]

I feel zero obligation to the society that basically ostracised me.

[@AlastorTheNPDemon]

Or as I like to say, did French citizens in the early 1940s have a moral obligation, a divine karmic mandate, to serve their National Socialist occupiers? Render unto Caesar... that which is Caesar's.

[@kyleethekelt]

Oh, I hear you.

[@svdefiant]

I absolutely agree with the what you’re saying. I feel exactly the same.

[@ranc1977]

With social anxiety trauma this obligation is unconscious, toxic shame, guilt and blame is overwhelming and painful.

[@jmgajda8071]

I very much admire you for this!

[@katieyoung7271]

It’s great to see you Quinn. You have been missed!

[@somenameforuser]

I can't string up the proper assortment of words to thank you for what you're doing. It was you that I realized more about my autism, which I thought I understood enough of. You don't explain these subtopics in an overly non-chalant or easy going way, and simply explain surface level facts, nor do you create films/animations intended not to explain, but to drive an emotion so that neurotypicals may try to understand, and to have me resonate the same feelings as I had in my past. You have a seemingly perfect balance, and your explanation of terms which I wasn't even explained to by a few psychologists had started me to reflect and apply new lenses upon myself.

[@DivergentMoon]

Welcome back, Quinn. I discovered your channel a few months ago and watched many of them as the algorithms fed them to me. Then I realized I hadn't seen a video from you in a while and checked out your channel. Then I changed the notification bell to make sure I knew when you came back on line, hopefully. This was enlightening. And I enjoy your visual and spoken humor a lot. Not much causes me to laugh out loud, but you do. That and Tristan Shandy. :) I'm happy for you.

[@jasminebambury5841]

I cant believe youre back with the topic iam trying to understand more. Yay! Thabk you for your content, its really teaching me a lot. I love the format. Brilliant stuff!!!

[@mrsm6727]

So good to see you back, Quinn! Great video as always, thank you 😊

[@chaparralchic4028]

Struggling lately. This video was so relatable, like balm for a sore heart. Thank you! 🤓

[@chrisellis4400]

Being homeless during the pandemic allowed me the space to gather my thoughts. I worked hard to get and maintain a job. I bought a new car and laptop. I spent every waking hour thinking about how I can improve myself. The place that I live is now closing and I'm going to be homeless again. I'm not going to lie, I'm kinda looking forward to the freedom and lack of obligations living out of my car affords me. Obviously if I told a charity or social worker that this is how I felt they would say "I've meet homeless people and some of them want to be homeless" I don't want to be homeless, I want a private room with a bed and a couple of electrical plugs. I'm willing to pay. Ah well, turns out that's too much to ask for.

[@foogriffy]

i'm in a similar situation... trying to get a van so i can have that private space without paying rent. then i can rest and make videos to try to cobble together some small income and survive. we deserve better, but i think this is the only way i can live.

[@kikitauer]

I am so happy you have so much new subscribers! It made my mediocre Friday much better 😉

[@joannedj1]

Welcome back, Quinn! Missed you! I don’t blame you for taking a long break from You Tube, though. Hope you are OK. 😊

[@AspieMemoires]

I’m happy to see you return! I found your channel and binged everything because you put into words what I’ve been trying to explain to others for a long time. So I was sad to see such a time distance from your last video.

[@ThatWeirdLady2519]

Love your videos. I hope you continue to make more! Edit; I just realized my comment probably seems like a demand. A bit ironic for a Pda Video, sorry.

[@UltimateSpinDash]

While some things sound familiar, I don't think I'm affected by PDA as you describe it. In my case, it was more a case of boundaries being disregarded to a point where I was constantly on the defense - but only towards certain people who felt entitled to my assistance. That, and I found that I despise the feeling that other people could see me in a bad, but inaccurate light.

[@Dice-Z]

Relate strongly with this.

[@fleurboisvert8816]

Rational demand avoidance ?

[@DrAnarchy69]

He’s baaaaaaaaaaack!

[@ConstitutionNCC1700]

We missed you Quinn. Great to see you again!

[@sksk-bd7yv]

Thank you so much for these vids! I too grew up learning only about my laziness, constant rebelling and impatience. Now I live with C-PTSD. But I also live a life so happy it's paradise compared to childhood, and many other hoods. My life partner is my bedrock, the source of what sanity is left. I don't work. I don't have a social life as NT might see it. Pains of the past scar today, and will poison my future. But to live with the amount of freedom I now have is pretty nice. I even sometimes like it. Considering I got here by my strength alone I'm certainly not deficit in my mentality. Making every stomp of mental illness on my file a mark of how incompetent my country's educational laws health scare is (🇸🇪). Yes, I'm very bitter and angry. Make me a good offer and I might freelance as a spy here. (Sarcasm.)

[@Dwamak]

Thank you, dear Quinn

[@Dice-Z]

"I've already failed" Yes, absolutely, that is it. That feeling is definitely there for me, when i'm demanded to do something i was already going to get done. I'll quote part of the other comment i left on the previous video, before even viewing this one: "That being said i do notice that sometimes i'll do something i'm supposed to or even WANT to do, *unless* i'm told to do it, then there'll be an inner resistance for some reason, maybe it feels like i'm being called stupid/lazy/incompetent and that i wouldn't/don't do it even though i do, because it's something i always do and they should know i will do it, yet they still tell me to do it in a demanding way. It's unlikely to happen if they request politely without urgency, but if they *demand* it, especially *now* and if i was _just_ about to do it? It likely will NOT get a pass. I don't know how to describe it, but it feels like disrespect, or even like an accusation/scolding/insult, even like an attempt at _dominance,_ etc... It provokes an extremely STRONG response in me. The issue isn't what i have to do but the demand itself." As for personal obligation, as i have ADHD (also anxiety/depression/cptsd aka trauma, + bpd & autism both strongly suspected), i very much relate to this mental block. I described it as such. "If you asked me to brush your teeth everyday, i could do it easily and happily, but brushing mine one time? That is absolute torture". I concluded that anything perceived as "work" is the issue, and that "helping someone" does not feel like "work", it's something i'm usually glad to do. Calling it an obligation is pretty close to that, and it makes a lot of sense. I'm also very loyal and honest, the type to get attached and go an extra mile for someone i care about, i care a lot about pleasing people, plus other things, so i can strongly empathize with a deep distaste for owing someone something, it causes me a lot of anxiety and guilt, and i take promises very seriously, so if i ever break one it's extremely unpleasant, thus i use them as they should be, only when i'm extremely confident and motivated to fulfill them, treating them as obligations and never being forced into them begrudgingly. But i digress. To go back to my initial description of how i relate to PDA, i'd say that this reaction i get is also partially because when someone tells me to do something i'm supposed to do in an authoritarian way, it doesn't feel like i'm being told "Hey, can you do this?" but that i'm being told "Hey, you were supposed to do this. But you didn't. I wanted it done by now regardless if it *needs* to be. Feel bad about it. Now go do it." It's like being challenged. I suppose it would also apply to it being pointed out negatively even when there's no urgency and it can still be done, like "You still havn't done this yet?!" well, i was about to, but now i won't. Also, online there is an image of a pyramid of increasingly extreme reactions as the PDA individual gets increasingly overwhelmed by obligations, from the article "what is demand avoidance" on pdasociety, and i must say that it does match how i respond to obligations, tasks and such a lot. Especially as i have maladaptive and extreme procrastination and daydreaming (fantasy) in general.

[@4Ninjastarz4]

I like this a lot better than part 1, I love how instead of focusing on the symptoms, you explain some of the "back-end processes" so to speak, of PDA, in a way that is both accurate and hard to find elsewhere 👍

[@audhd_enby_elder]

Quinn! 🤩🤩🤩 So fantastic to have you back. This video hit me right in the feels. You explained it a lot better than others have, and it took me to several, not so nice places, down memory road. But it's good that it did, I can deal better now because I understand better. Thank you so much. ❤

[@harrietwindebank6051]

Yay Quinn is back!!

[@ninadavis4157]

This video is AMAZING. Thank you for breaking down this phenomenon in a way that completely captures what this experience ACTUALLY is without making me feel like I have lost my mind.

[@nnylasoR]

This, is, WONDERFUL. Thank you for all you do…. 🧡🧡🧡

[@megchulufas4172]

This video means so much to me. I’m 60+ years old, and I’ve strongly suspected I’m on the autism spectrum for about a year. I’ve been diagnosed with ADHD, but I don’t think I’ll pursue an autism diagnosis at this age, because I can’t think of a major benefit to my life, other than proving I’m right, and that just seems like a poor reason to spend the money at this point! The number one thing that I’ve struggled to understand is my PDA. It’s been so frustrating, because I also have alexithymia, and I wind up just staring at whomever is demanding things. I’m in tears, listening to you explain and dissect it so well. Many thanks. 🙏

[@AppreciateGoodMessag]

Oh Quinn, you have NO idea how much I relate to everything you say. I throw myself into my specail interests. Once it was suggested I be tested by a professional (in the U.S.and they are few and far between, not to mention costly. $6000+ ) I threw myself into research of Autism. The easy way at first--- watching KZbin and online studies and journals. No one explains the various spectrums of Autism as you. You hit a point in this podcast that maybe the most significant to me. And, it may be what is leading to so many elderly people to seek psycharactic councel. Atonomy. Probably my greatest fear.

[@arielgillespie8]

this is incredible, i've never heard anyone explain it this way, and i can't explain how grateful I am to you for making this video. hope you're doing okay, thank you for advocating for us. this just gets better and better, you are such a blessing

[@enriquejavier9101]

Hello Quinn. I've recently discovered your channel, and damn! I really love the way you explain very complicated topics in a way it can be understood even in its most subtle aspects. It's the firts time I can say I've comprehended what PDA is and how it is related to my personal experience. Thank you so much for doing this, I hope this kind of content reaches much more audience because it is quite good. And thanks for helping me to understand myself a little bit more

[@bryndal36]

Second video of yours I've watched now and I have to say, what an incredible insight you have to what we autists deal with on a day to day basis. Thankyou for putting clarity on issues I constantly deal with. Also, I subscribed with the first video of yours I watched.

[@lovisah99]

Thank GOD I found this video! It really put words on some parts of my PDA that I hadn’t even considered before. 🙏

[@silviasevilla239]

Thank you for this video. It clarified a lot about how I feel for the longest time. Combined with ED it’s been difficult to identify it from depression. I’m an autistic diagnosed last year at 65yo. I am in the process of healing mi inner child, it makes me sad all what she went through. As I understand more about my condition I am gentle with myself, I’ve always have spent lots of time laying down. Tired and depressed. Now I give me space and time to recover and get the energy to function. Which I do well but it takes a lot of me. Thank you again, this material is really useful. 🙏🏼🌟

[@h-aether]

This was a fantastic in-depth insight - made me realise so many things! (I'm also autistic, possibly PDA) Thankyou so much for putting the time into this - I've not heard it approached from this angle before.

[@trollsneedhugs]

This is so accurate! It's the number 1 reason why I don't do well with scheduled social groups. The members will EXPECT me to be there each week, which feels like a prison sentence. So I must choose between going back to prison each week, or have people talk about me in my absence, both of which I hate. It's also why my career opportunities never manifested. I was expected to be a success, so I was obligated to give my entire life over to that expectation, or live with the shame of failing that expectation. Actually living the expectation of a successful career feels like giving my life up to play out a story I have already read. Totally meaningless and crushingly boring. I would rather let life take me for an unexpected ride. The reality is, everyone is on that unexpected ride, but the difference is they are fighting to steer the train off the rails to conform with their plans. I used to be an atheist, but now I'm an Orthodox Christian (yes, the denomination matters) and I am finally feeling some peace. Now I live for Truth, as the Truth is my perpetual comfort. No matter what, I know that I can cling to Truth, because Truth will never fail me. The only difference between my atheism and present belief is that I have discovered that Truth is a person who goes by many names; Humility, Life, Love, and Jesus Christ.

[@robscovell5951]

☦️❤

[@WendyJones-zx7is]

GOD IS TRUTH

[@musicalintentions]

Thank you for sharing this. You are speaking my language.

[@snorlaxgender]

You are hilarious, dude. I never thought of PDA in terms of currency - I think it's kinda sad that the best analogies have to do with money, but the thing about wanting all your bills to be pre-paid rather than waiting until you have to manually pay all of them is SUCH a good one.

[@djkhaledaltaccount6500]

Take your time boss.

[@petrisz]

Wow! What a clear explanation. Makes so much sense. I might just start quoting at length from your video to everyone close to me :)

[@computerlove87]

What's funny to me is my autistic brain is pumping the imposter syndrome hardcore, even while I sit here mouth agape as he literally reads my whole life off of script basically 🤪😅😂

[@JessieThorne886]

So interesting to hear your thoughts on this! I think my PDA has to do with how my motivational system works; they say a meal tastes better if you caught the fish and prepared all the ingredients yourself; well, I feel the same way about tasks; if I didn't set them myself and come up with my very own way of doing them, they feel like they have absolutely no value at all. That it might please someone else if I did them, or be part of a greater goal, like passing a class, holds no motivational power for me. I'm willing to admit that it might also factor in that my teachers and parents often treated me extremely unfairly, framing me for being willfully oppositional when I was trying my best and simply being me (autistic), so the whole process of anyone telling me I have to do something may have been contaminated with negative feelings. Your explanation makes sense for me, too; I've always abhorred owing anyone anything, be it money or otherwise, and had no peace until the perceived 'debt' was gone. I've never been able to enjoy eating in restaurants, because I can't pay in advance, even though I know I have the money and am going to pay afterwards.

[@JeannaClements]

Ok, yes. Thank you. This is a really refreshing perspective. Going to take some time digesting it. Thank you for your articulation, and your transparent sharing

[@Autistamatic]

Thanks for watching part 2👍

[@MrAndywills]

Wish I could close my 'social account'. Frequently say my 'get up and go has got up and gone'. I think guilt/shame and fear of failure is quite common.

[@meowhisd4546]

Thank you. I really needed this.

[@michellestudios9593]

I feel everything that you’re saying. My son is autistic and I am also not neurodivergent and that I am ADHD and have PTSD. Sometimes the combination of ADHD and PTSD makes me certain that I am also on the spectrum, but the doctor have suggested that I am not. Either way, almost everybody that I absolutely love to death is on the spectrum.your words are inspiring and ring so true

[@fraktaalimuoto]

I discovered your channel recently. Happy to that you are back!

[@adelaidedupont9017]

Quinn: it's been a million years since I've looked at any of your videos [though Autistamatic has come into my mind a little bit over the years]. Good to watch a current and thoughtful video about demand avoidance. And the Lord Lucan angle is something I would never have thought to experience; even though some of his reasons for "disappearing" and the things that happened before do resonate. [and the story did register in my head in the early 1990s through a women's magazine].

[@dreamagine]

I love that you use so many visual depictions of what you are saying. It helps me as a visual lerner. And I also always try to anticipate any possible demands^^.

[@BoReads]

Good to know, now, why I've struggled for nearly 30 years after the lack of understanding destroyed my life and made me suicidal.

[@mariagusman6949]

“Empathy dead-zones.” So true unfortunately.

[@Ashley_Obscuro]

I used to think that everyone had a running "social currency" counter in their head for all their interpersonal relationships. I think about mine in World of Warcraft terms. Like going to social events with friends whenever I felt like I could handle it so that I could buy a pass to skip other social events that I was less interested in.

[@Autistamatic]

If I thought more people would get the meaning, I might have posited morality systems, such as those in the Fallout series or Mass Effect as an analogy, so I get where you're coming from👍 I did a video that compared the character creation system of allocating initial skillpoints in modern CRPGs & Action RPGs (like Cyberpunk 2077 in the video itself - it had recently come out when I made it) to the spiky skill sets of autists which worked well from my POV, but not everyone related to it as well as I hoped🤷‍♂ I guess RPGs are more "niche" than I thought😂

[@matthewbucktrout3291]

Thank you for this video Quinn, it has helped with my own deconstruction of what seems to fit with being PDA in myself.

[@markrichter2053]

Wow. This one’s a real oh, ok moment for me. I’m very autistic in lots of the aspie measurements. However, giving a flying monkey about what others expect from me had never been a problem for me really. It’s not like I don’t care. And I do really enjoy the good feeling of helping others and of feeling like I’m useful and have a functional place in my community. I love all of that. But if someone tries to make me feel beholden or places an expectation on me that I don’t feel is reasonable I just couldn’t care less. I feel totally free from anyone’s attempt to control my action in that way. Which is one of the strengths of my autistic profile. like they say, when you know one autiste, you know one autiste. With me it’s sorting phone calls and organising my finances because I find it really difficult to do things I’m not interested in even if they benefit me greatly.

[@keithgrainger8797]

Only watched two of your videos and they have been so informative and relatable. I wish i could describe myself as well as you could ... that way i could understand myself better and access the correct help. I was diagnosed at 40 with aspergers. 46 now and have been awaiting a adhd assessment for over two years. Any time i try to seek help im told they only deal with anxiety and depression ( of wich i have both) id rather get to the reasons that caused the anxiety and depression. The last person i spoke to said get more exercise... i was playing at least 36 holes of golf a day. Thats roughly 15km walk with 15kg weight . Rant over. Just like to say i appreciate your videos.

[@Autistamatic]

Thank you Keith. I'm glad you find the channel useful. There's a great deal of overlap between autistic and ADHD characteristics to the extent that many theorise that they might be thought of as variant expressions of the same differences. The term AuDHD has gained popularity as a consequence. I myself don't have an ADHD diagnosis but exhibit numerous ADHD traits which I'll be talking about in an upcoming video.

[@davidrichards9898]

Excellent thoughts. So helpful to me. Does anyone else find it impossible to ask for help? Could this be another perspective, a request for a social loan, that we try to avoid at all costs?

[@suanach]

I'm autistic and thought that I didn't have PDA, but this video definitely confirms it. And explains why my autistic ex-husband acted the way he did. I still can't imagine feeling that way. I'm not the kind of person who keeps score of who owes who what; I guess my ADHD makes that require so much mental effort I simply lack the capability of maintaining a tit-for-tat balance sheet in my mind or even the _concept_ of one. I just DO things for people I like or just feel are the right thing to do and forget about them. I don't understand people who "count favors" or the "transactional" mindset. I've heard that it's a narcissistic trait (I mean, EVERYTHING with Donald Trump is 100% transactional), so maybe you were raised by narcissists. I was raised by one too, but I still never felt any sense of "obligation" that bothered me, not even from the narcissist. Chores around the house were just things I hated to do, but if I did them, I felt good about doing a good job. And, as a bonus, I got an allowance too! Maybe the "obligation" was there but I just didn't notice because I'm autistic, and that's a social skill that only non-autistics seem to intuit. At least from my non-PDA perspective. (Also, I was raised as a Christian, so I've always believed that we should just do good things without expecting anything in return. And "lend" people money and not expect it back. In fact, once I lent a friend money because she was about to be evicted from her apartment, and I was actually surprised when she repaid me half of it because I had completely forgotten about it, just happy that she hadn't been evicted! When I can afford it, I feel _good_ about donating money to a cause I believe in! Unfortunately, when I can't afford it, I feel bad. Plus I worry about all the _other_ causes I believe in? I feel bad about all the ones I didn't donate to even when I _was_ able to donate to some I believe in. Generosity was just drilled into me from an early age. I mean, I got Christmas & birthday presents as a little kid _long_ before I was ever expected to give presents to other people, so I've never had a sense of "transactionality" or any avoidance of it. Of course, if I don't pay my bills, I lose services & eventually my home, but I have no personal connection to the organizations I'm paying. Besides, I hate dealing with mathematics; I'm terrible at it, so, yeah, I put those off until I start getting disconnection notices!) So I still didn't understand your point about how to ask someone with PDA to do something that's REALLY important and not induce a PDA reaction. Like things my ex-husband would refuse to do just because I ASKED him to--or NOT to--for reasons that involved life or death situations for me or other people or even himself and caused me no end of frustration and inconvenience that I somehow managed to survive--the all the ICE in the driveway he refused to shovel _before_ he drove over it and mashed it all down so that by the time _I_ got home and got a chance to do it, it was solid ice I couldn't get through, which caused me to slip and hurt myself a _number_ of times, nor did he care when my sister, who was pregnant with _twins_ had to try to navigate the driveway ice to get to the door! Which is but one of _many_ infuriating examples.😡 I even had a friend who refused to come to my house once the snow started, once saying to me upon seeing the driveway: "The lumps are starting." I didn't even find out I was autistic too until well after we divorced, and I now understand that aspect of him better as opposed to thinking that he never wanted to talk to me or do anything together because he didn't like me and wasting the last 15 years of my life while being gradually crippled by EDS (which I had to diagnose myself just like my misdiagnosed autism) living like roommates--but not being allowed to see other "roommates." Plus I did _so_ much work remodeling that house that I loved only for _him_ to get custody of it because he _forced_ me to go through a moderator in order to divorce him by refusing to respond to my telling him to get a lawyer after I already had one--who wanted to wring every penny possible out of him, which I couldn't bring myself to do. Yet, despite being autistic, I honestly don't think I could ever live with a person who had PDA ever again. In fact, I put up with him for 14 years longer than I should have & still tell people he was a nice guy but a _terrible_ husband, and even _he_ has since decided he never wants to live with anyone again--after guilting me out of a divorce _four_ times over the years because he didn't "want to be alone."😭 PDA honestly makes no sense to me except that it was caused by some incurable childhood trauma because autism makes us hypersensitive & more prone to PTSD (and Complex PTSD), which I have in spades! If only he hadn't spent the first two years of our relationship _completely_ masking who he was and then replying after I asked why he suddenly didn't want to watch what he'd led me to believe was "our" favorite TV show: "We're married now, so I don't have to impress you anymore."