Deep cleaning dental scam?!

[@twjull]

Nearly got scammed for $1800 in North Scottsdale, Arizona for a 4 quadrant ‘deep cleaning’. Went to another clinic in a less affluent area in Phoenix, didn’t say anything about the deep cleaning the other dental office said I needed. They did a regular cleaning and said my teeth were fine. So I asked ’do I need a deep cleaning’? He looked at me confused and said absolutely not, it would cause more damage breaking the gum seal around the tooth. The fancier the office the bigger the scams.

[@oralcareclub2762]

EXACTLY!! Someone is paying for that vaulted ceiling and 500 gallon salt water fish tank. Sadly it turns out that its the patients.

[@itsvaraa]

Break the gum seal 😂

[@speedracer175]

😂​@@itsvaraa

[@LauMarLi]

I don’t have any bleeding in my gums, no swollen areas at all. My gums have receded a bit but I figure that’s from age. I feel like dentists in the US are going overboard with the deep cleaning and it feels like a money grab. I feel like it’s becoming increasingly hard to find honest and ethical dentists.

[@oralcareclub2762]

AMEN!! That is why I made this post. If you feel like the deep cleaning isn't needed then absolutely get a second opinion. Best of luck in finding that honest dentist. I know they are out there.

[@melissanative1799]

I WAS TOLD TEN YEARS AGO THAT I NEEDED IT AND I AM FINE NOW. NO PROBLEM WITH GUMS EVEN THOUGHT THE ARE RECEDING. I DO NOTICE POCKETS BUT I DON'T KNOW IF ANYTHING WILL EVER COME OF THEM.

[@patrickvalle546]

I totally feel you. I’ve heard of hygienists and dentists recommending unnecessary deep cleanings just to meet certain production numbers. When a patient has periodontal disease and are in need of a deep cleaning, I can see their concern and I can tell they think I might be wanting to get the most out of them. However, I always encourage my patients to get a second opinion because I want them to have more than one set of eyes to reiterate their diagnosis and for the patient to feel sure about their diagnosis and why it is needed. I always say it’s like going to a mechanic. You want to see whose diagnoses your car and see if the diagnosis is the same with different people. But I also notice that patients tend to go through being told that they need a deep cleaning out of the blue to due incomplete or missing assessments such as probing, radiographs, medical history update, and exam from the dentist or hygienist. Sometimes the hygienist or doctor will have such a great relationship with the patient that they might find it difficult to tell the patient they need a deep cleaning for fear losing them or having the patient think they’re trying to get scammed. Or the patient moves away and finds another dentist who will unfortunately tell them that whoever they were previously seeing did not adequately meet/maintain their hygiene needs.

[@melissanative1799]

@@patrickvalle546 I FEEL SENSITIVITY IN MY POCKETS SOMETIMES SO DOES THAT MEAN A DEEP CLEANING WOULD HELP?

[@lesvas7093]

No. It won't help. What do you need is to floss twice a day . Watch videos of how ​@melissanative1799

[@MrKockabilly]

During a visit, the dentist told me I need periodontal treatment and she poked a needle-like probe in my gums. She has mirror intended for me to see the depth measurement to prove her point. However, I feel like she's poking it too hard like she's going deeper than the actual tooth-gum juncture that I yelp each time. I ask if she really had to push it too hard, she said that how it was. Glad I didn't have to budget to fall for that.

[@oralcareclub2762]

Best thing to do is get a second, and third, opinion and see if they tell you the same thing.

[@MrKockabilly]

@@oralcareclub2762 Good point!

[@one-day-at-a-time4134]

I've just had the same thing happen today. I have quite a high pain threshold, but this was unbearable. I've never ever hurt during a check-up, nor have I bled until today. She was even jabbing the mirror and pointy thing into my gums so roughly that it made them hurt and bleed, making me yelp in pain. Her attitude toward me was horrible, too, to be honest. The dentist we used to see was lovely.

[@itsvaraa]

​@@one-day-at-a-time4134 healthy gums do not bleed. The deeper the probe goes the deeper the pocket there's no pushing it further. If a probe if tender to the touch of the bottom of the gum sulcus than you have gum disease. A probe should not hurt it is flat on the top and cannot peirce you without extreme excessive force which is unlikely. The probe most likely touched your root and the bottom of an actively infect gum tissue which both are sensitivite.

[@itsvaraa]

You have gum disease. A probe should not make you "yelp" your gum tissues are actively infected and tender to the touch, the probe most likely touched the root surface which is indicative of active infection. The gum tissue pulls away from the tooth when there is infection due to plaque and tarter buildup irritating the gums. Once it pulls away a probe can enter this area and can be tender to the touch. A probe cannot be pushed harder than what is actually present unless extreme noticeable force is applied which is very unlikely.

[@RenzoCalrizian]

Thanks for bringing awareness to this issue. It reminds me of my situation. I have been with the same Dentist for about 25 years and have overall been satisfied with the service he provides. In the last few years though I have a suspicion that he is doing a lot of unnecessary things for his own financial gain. I used to go 7+ years without needing a deep cleaning, now it seems every 2 year he wants to do it. Worst of all during every single routine visit in the last few years he is pushing those Arestin antibiotic insertions that no insurance covers. In my area they are a whopping $150 a piece. The worst experience ever was walking in for a routine cleaning, and walking out with a $900 bill for 6 Arestin injections, for supposed deep pockets. My Dentist said he would use some, but did not say how many. I was outraged and we negotiated down to $600. Still highway robbery, as Arestin has mixed results. Seems just a way for Dentist to make a lot of money with minimal work. I would find another Dentist, but I don't want to go through the ropes with a new practice at this point.

[@oralcareclub2762]

@@RenzoCalrizian I am sorry to hear about your bad experience. Even though it might be a hassle, I would suggest at least going and getting a second opinion.

[@chefpaul420]

Suddenly all of "the" sudden😂 But yeah great info. Went to a place called Aspen dental And they told me I had period on Titus😂 periodontitis And that I needed treatments otherwise my teeth would fall out. But I have no redness no No swelling No sensitivity And rarely blood from brushing too hard. Going for a second opinion. feels like a scam. They did not even push into the gum or probe at all. Barely touched my teeth or gums

[@oralcareclub2762]

It's something I hear all too often. Hopefully you find someone you can trust. Good luck.

[@chefpaul420]

@@oralcareclub2762 Thank you me too. I did not know actually how common This practice was To fabricate The progression Or diagnose A non-existing condition So that they can Gain revenue With procedures that are not necessary by scare tactics. Has made me more aware to keep up with dental care though And educate myself further.

[@BrianK-zz4fk]

Those clinics are notorious for over treating, private equity is involved. Best to find a well established dentist that owns their own practice. I went to 3 dentists, including a group, and the only one recommending deep cleaning was the group. Sucks having to spend the money for all the xrays but finding and honest dentist can save thousands in the long run.

[@IamAWESOME3980]

Had a dentist pulled this one over me. I fell for it cuz it was the first time I saw such dentist

[@oralcareclub2762]

Sorry to hear that. Not sure how these dentists sleep at night.

[@buckeyescratcher6130]

I know I need some work done. Dentist said deep cleaning but I also have some chipped teeth I want to take care of first while I have the money. They said I have to do the deep cleaning first. I asked another dentist and got a different answer. If I did the deep cleaning I’d have to save up again and if something worse happened to the tooth I’d pry have to pull it cause I wouldn’t have the money to get a crown that I need. A few of my gum pockets are at 5mm but the majority are at or under 4mm. Any advice from a dentist would be great. My gums occasionally bleed when flossing but they aren’t swollen, not heat/cold sensitivity and I’m not in pain

[@AstrophageOfficial]

i was told by 3 different dentists that i need a deep cleaning. ill take that as i need one. although i dont have swelling, bleeding or anything else. i did get 3's and 5's though

[@chibba]

he always recommended me one but I never do it. I never have cavity but since I started using him I have 6-8 cavity so not sure why but I did lag on brushing and having money makes you eat out more lol.

[@oralcareclub2762]

"since I started using him I have more cavities" 🤨 Perhaps you should stop using him if he's telling you you have more cavities than you've ever had. Maybe it's not you. It might be him!!

[@chibba]

@@oralcareclub2762 i did lag on brushing when I wfh especially in morning where i just brush a minute and I did eat a lot of ice cream/chips and boba since those are my comfort food. Oh and I eat a lot of fruits when I am home vs in the office.

[@asymmetry9988]

Almost every time I go to the dentist, at least one of my teeth that was just fine 6 months earlier suddenly needs major work. In most cases, the work I need is the same as what my dental insurance covers for the year. Watch out! Dentistry is the new scam practice!

[@oralcareclub2762]

Sadly I see way too much of this. Don't be afraid to switch dentists. There are great ones out there, I promise. If you think your dentist is pulling something weird ... trust that instinct and get out!

[@itsvaraa]

You all are legitimately trying to make yourselves feel better in the comments, youre gonna loose your teeth, end up in dentures and hating it

[@danepatterson8107]

I don't even think 3mm justifies the cleaning. Periodontal MEASUREMENTS aren't needed. I just walked out of a dental office because they refused to allow me to refuse consent to periodontal measurements. Periodontal measurements are a scam because they usually take a team of two (the doctor and the record-taker) and that's big money. Most American dentists will lie to get you to have unnecessary procedures done: they have become, as industry, as disreputable a profession as used care salesman and shady car mechanics. I've started going years without cleanings. I never go to the same dentist for more than 1 year. I never transfer records and always tell dentists that I haven't been for years and years. Without fail, everyone wants me to believe I have periodontal disease, but no one can show me evidence, and nothing feels wrong in my mouth. (water pick, twice daily brushing for 3 minutes or more). I do not trust American dentists. I only trust European or Asian dentists.

[@itsvaraa]

@@danepatterson8107 tell me what's needed in order to diagnose periodontal disease?

[@lamarravery4094]

Asian dentists also persuade you for a deep cleaning.

[@jorgesanchez3084]

Do you not get x-rays showing your bone loss??

[@itsvaraa]

@@jorgesanchez3084 they won't answer because they're wrong and don't want to admit it

[@goswinschepens4751]

This is wrong on many levels, and as a dentist, you should know better. Firstly, the X-ray cannot detect calculus on partial crater bone defects. Your X-ray can give information, but the burnout, as I hope you know, causes the area where the calculus normally would be, to disappear or be vague. Also, do a reflection, where would the plaque be shown on the vestibular or oral surface? Right. It wont. I cannot fathom how you got your degree. Secondly, 3+ mm does not indicate a deep cleaning, but progression of the pocket does. That is why regular DPSI is needed.

[@oralcareclub2762]

@@goswinschepens4751 You are exactly the reason why it’s so hard to get insurances to pay for ACTUAL periodontal therapy. As a dentist, I’m sure you’ve noticed in the past several years that insurance companies are now requiring obscene amounts of proof before they will pay for periodontal therapy. Why do you think that is? It’s because some dentist offices now have more patience on periodontal therapy then on regular cleaning therapies. Studies simply do not show that more than 50% of the American population need periodontal therapy. Yet there are many offices that are doing just that. Your defense of that seems to be “you can’t see calculus on an x-ray, because it’s hiding”. In that case, we ought to do periodontal therapy on 100% of our patients… just in case 🤦‍♂️🤷

[@goswinschepens4751]

I do not. I practice in Belgium, and studied at KUL, which is the 3rd best school of dentisty around the world. That beeing said, most of the training is provided on the field. In belgium, 1/2 of dentists will undergo a very rigorous overhaul of all treatements and you must provide extensive data to explain all treatements. The cuttoff for treatements not beeing sufficiently argued is 30K. If this barrier is crossed, you will lose your lisence, a significant portion of your patients will be questioned by police and you will have to pay back everything, even those treatements who were argued correctly. Here, you will be found automatically guilty, unless proven innocent. Do not speak of things you do not know. I argued that you have very little information within the RX to provide argumentation for a deep cleaning. Here in Belgium, we dont treat grade 1 caries, practice minimal invasive dentistry and do not go subgingically with US. Clearly, a FM is dentrimental to attachement, and usually the patiënt will lose 1 or even 2 mm of attachement after a FM. This treatment must be, very, very well argued. That dentistry sucks in US and has made you angry is very understandable. We are both on the same fence, US is overtreating patiënts who have an insurance, and gives no treatement to those who need, but lack insurance. Your anger, while understanding of it, is regarded at the wrong person. US needs universal healthcare, and a far better justice system.

[@troywilliams7236]

My commen sence tell me deep clean is a scam just thought about the night when I heard about it. How they can go though the enamel to get it clean. I'm shore a regular clean do the same thing.

[@itsvaraa]

No, you will loose your teeth if you let that infection stay active for too long. Periodontal disease is how people end up in dentures. Deep cleaning is beneath the gum not through enamel, it's to remove infection underneath the gum that is receeding your bone which holds the tooth in place.

[@AndreaWhy-ky3zj]

It is not a scam unless it is.

[@KettiexD]

How far beneath the dej should the alveolar crest be? I work with a hygienist who swears that the bone level should be exactly at the dej. This bwx you have up? She would diagnose SRP and say it is stage 1 perio with vertical bone loss in the upper arch

[@gurugamer8632]

My dentist said I do not have gum disease, but hygentist said I have pockets and told me to see perdiodontal consultant. They examined my gums and measured the size of pockets. Near the molars 4 at the back each side have pockets between 5-6mm. Told me I need deep cleaning 2 sessions each at £700. Each session takes 1 hour. Do I really need this?

[@Ashly304]

Yes or you will start to get bone loss and loose teeth. I am going through this now. had my first root scaling/planing today. go back next week for the other side. They were able to show me on the xrays.

[@itsvaraa]

Your bone has already started to receed at the 5-6mm pocket depth once it hits those 8-9mm pockets there's high risk of loose teeth and mobility

[@bobbycrosby9765]

I've maintained 5mm for 20 years now without deep cleanings. So it's not like it's a done deal at 4mm. But your mileage might vary.

[@melissanative1799]

DOESN'T A DEEP CLEANING LOOSEN UP GUMS AND CAUSING THE TEETH TO LOOSEN UP AND FALL OUT?

[@oralcareclub2762]

@@melissanative1799 No. Typically loose gums and loosening teeth are the reason for a deep cleaning. However… A deep cleaning can cause damage to gums and bones if it’s truly not needed and done improperly.

[@GuitarsAndSynths]

so how do you get the tartar/bacteria under gumline removed then?

[@oralcareclub2762]

A normal cleaning is designed to remove subgingival tarter and calculus. That's kind of the point. Most people simply need a normal cleaning. But dentists can bill 3x as much if they call it a "deep" cleaning.

[@itsvaraa]

A normal prophylaxis cleaning removes tarter 1-3mm under the gumline and no most people do not simply need a "normal" cleaning​, the ADA has a classification system guide if you would like to reference it, sounds like you need help determining what a deep cleaning actually is @@oralcareclub2762

[@latkah]

This music makes me fall asleep

[@oralcareclub2762]

Falling asleep at the dentist office is probably the best 🤣

[@MarioMartinez-tt9ly]

All I know is after I got my deep cleaning my gums felt so much better

[@RenzoCalrizian]

Yeah..... but that feeling doesn't last. Most often 6 months from now your gums & teeth are back to feeling like they were before the deep cleaning. Some dentists will be pushing you for another deep cleaning in a few years. 10 to 15 years ago they were not doing this. Nowadays deep cleaning has become a money grab for dentists. In my area of the U.S. the biggest dental scam you will find are the Arestin antibiotic injections. They are supposed to treat periodontal pockets, yet most studies show this treatment is not effective. Which is why no insurance covers it. Each injection costs about $120 to $150 and only takes the dentist 40 seconds to put in. So, with several Arestin insertions per visit, they can make hundreds to thousands of dollars with minimal effort. Hence the scam. The dentists know damn well there are less expensive options to treat gum issues.

[@itsvaraa]

​@@RenzoCalrizianafter a deep cleaning you need to follow your periodontal maintenence cleanings, done every 3-4 months to prevent another deep cleaning and keep your gums healthy and away from active infection again. Water flosser, floss, and brushing are the only way to maintain gums at home until your next cleaning.

[@Gooseplan]

@@RenzoCalrizianWhat are those other options?

[@r3x.x3r]

so i got scammed i didnt pay out of pocket tho cos its fully covered by my insurance but do i got back for my 2nd appointment??

[@teesterl2411]

Does periodontal disease require deep cleaning

[@greg4552-v8y]

It can. I had a deep cleaning, but I didn’t go to the dentist for a very long time. They showed the X-rays and pointed out the tarter and bone loss. Luckily no other issues. If you have a serious problem, the they may refer you to a periodontist.

[@evarkf]

Deep cleaning is causing gum recession

[@oralcareclub2762]

Agreed

[@Ana-vm7mx]

Only for a minute of glory on KZbin you have to create this type of confusion among people. There are other ways to educate society on gum disease. Be precise. You don't have to but you could put the focus on the other 99% of dental professionals who are honest. Maybe in your town they're all scammers. From a Periodontist friend.

[@oralcareclub2762]

Odd comment, especially from someone in your profession. Due to the insane levels that dentists are handing out SRP diagnosis its now almost impossible to get insurances to believe when it's actually needed. You must have seen a huge uptick in the information that insurances are requiring nowadays. Why do you think that is???

[@Ana-vm7mx]

@@oralcareclub2762Maybe the problem is the insurances and not the dentists.

[@Ana-vm7mx]

@@oralcareclub2762 We are seeing your video worldwide.

[@breeness56]

Oh my god, THANK YOU!!! This video was very simple to follow and he shows examples. If you have ADHD, you will be able to listen. Great Video. I'm subscribing!!🩷

[@oralcareclub2762]

@@breeness56 You are very welcome.