Defending Rockstar's Game Design

[@alojous]

Bro’s onto nothing 💀

[@alojous]

Your defense was basically “they hate us cause they ain’t us.” Nah but fr. I can agree that Rockstar is a studio that consistently makes fantastic work. I also agree that some certain quirks about the game might be disliked by some, but that they come together with other elements of the game to make something greater than the sum of its parts. That being said, I disagree in that the reason for GTAV and RDR2 criticism is because there aren’t other gaming experiences that are as well-crafted and unique as Rockstar’s games. Shouldn’t the opposite be true? If Rockstar games really were in a league of their own and we had no other games to compare them with, wouldn’t that lead to less criticism? Because we would have no examples of things that could be done better? Wouldn’t it be the case that, if there were other games with the same value as Rockstar games, that there would be much more criticism then?

[@alojous]

Even if the whole game is more valuable then the sum of its parts, it doesn’t mean that any of its parts are devoid of defects that don’t deserve criticism and attention and that could benefit from being tweaked. Imagine how great the whole would be if some of its parts weren’t holding it back.

[@JeffreyCC]

GTAV is filled with all these different area's, yet the entire map is dead. They should be making the effort to make everything interactable, like being able to pour cement with the cement truck, use a jackhammer from the construction site, use the actual cranes at the harbor, an alive and functional Pier with all the carnival themed mini games. Be actually able to dump with the dump truck, use the airtug to carry lugage around, use thengym, eat at Clucking Bell, hop into a boat and go fishing, use the porta potty, _you name it._ You could hop into a taxi, hit (E) and start a mini-game, collect RP and if done enough mini-games you can purchase the company and only _then_ you are able to fast travel. We have had these kind of functionality in San Andreas but has been cut entirely and I never understood that. Doing vigilante missions could give you bribing options at the police department which could come in handy while doing storyline missions. In the end it is just fun to mess around while having some basic control over utility vehicles and what not. I mean, in V we were able to take a shower for RP but we couldn't buy cotton candy or play carnival games at the Pier.

[@dimi14]

the problem with V interiors and all those minigames that we had in earlier titles now gone is because one simple reason: hardware limitations. gta v first was developed to run in X360 and PS3 once gta iv was released, the game was so big that they had to separate it in 2 dvds to install it, they had to make a choice. but i also keep doubting sometimes that they couldn't put all of this on ps4 and xbox one when the remaster came out, they just didn't cared anymore to story mode and turned all of of their dlcs into many small pieces on GTA ONLINE

[@wedoalittletrolling723]

@@dimi14 face it, gta v ps4/xboxone/PC and now the E&E editions are only graphically improved with some minor tweaks to the code but that's it, they don't want to drastically change the gameplay because at that point why not work on new GTA? In-fact if they did change the gameplay, it might ruin some aspects of it because it would be way different from release. It's why they only update the graphics or do small bug fixes to Story Mode

[@hayhaa1984]

There's no way this video has as small interaction as this? It's so well made I literally rushed to the comments after finishing it to see if someone else had insight on the 'I quit gaming after having my expectations raised by RDR2' part. Genuinely awesome video essay man, It feels high quality and I hope it gets the interaction it deserves.

[@MetallicFear]

About that last bit about “Jason”. That story is 100% true and I felt really bad for him cos I should’ve recommended other games to ease in. Last time I talked to him, his Xbox was collecting dust and was considering selling it. Real shame.

[@BrandonPoirierBlair]

Rockstar is one of the last few gaming companies from back in the day that I would still trust with my dollars. Always high quality, always a blast to play and experience and every release has been amazing in terms of advancements and pushing the R* formula further. RDR2 had it's similarities with GTA V but overall it very much felt like it's own thing and it was very successful at what it did (I played it earlier this year). I do have to say though, I can't say i'm a huge fan of the reveal trailer for GTA 6. No gameplay shown, the characters look generic, i'm still on the fence about the art style and the 2025 release date... I'm not ready to hop on the hype train just yet.

[@testicule_boy4247]

Brother Rockstar has never released trailers showing gameplay, look at GTA V's or RDR 2's trailer for reference. They let you experience it firsthand and honestly they have never deceived.

[@sagnikchakraborty1613]

I can vouch for Jason's "rdr2 ruined gaming for me" take. It happened to me as well. Which is why i started rdro 😂

[@FunkyCryptid]

The biggest criticisms from me is the fact that they like to promise us stuff but just never provide (GTA 5 story dlc, red dead online buy able properties to name a couple). They abandoned a plump fat cash cow that was rdr online and ditched it for at the time an almost 10 year old game. They left red dead online a broken, empty, buggy mess. Yet it gives me hope to see so many new comers showing up. Every time I load in its full servers and many low levels. There is no defence for what rockstar did to red dead. I mean you telling me that amazing story mode wasn't worth adding anything into? Why did we not get any new weapons post launch other than the lemat and navy? There is no defence for what rockstar did to red dead. I'm not gonna protest that they need to add in what they promised. But they either need (yes need, call me entitled all you want it's deserved for the fans) to fix the bugs or just remove the online service entirely. Fix it or let it die in peace. At least it can die with the dignity of being an amazing single player story experience.

[@jasimzoobi2340]

I couldn't wait to come down to see the comments on this video only to find out there's only one other person saying the same thing as me. This was a great video, the quality, pacing, and arguments were solid imo!

[@MetallicFear]

You are far too kind. Thank you.

[@Shadow-bm6sq]

Ngl Rockstar games is one of the best game company's that hasn't ruined their reputation with crappy knock offs the prime example of that cough cough cold war cough cough

[@l4titude13]

Liked the video very much, some nice points which i rarely see people talk about. But like other people on the video i find it suprising that your video has such small interaction cus i really felt like watching some documentary shitt

[@user-uo5st2re6m]

bro this is not a good defence at all. You "defend" by criticizing about unfair criticism but not actually response to the criticisms given. Mario doesn't need to run as fast as sonic because Mario WORKS. You don't need to fix what isn't broken. And rockstar's game structure doesn't work. it's outdated.

[@MetallicFear]

Definition of what “works” in this context is usually determined by how well it sells, reception from the industry and consumers. Every major Rockstar titles so far have done exceedingly well in all three of those metrics. Even if the reception has fallen over the last couple years, it’s still well above positive. Problems people have with rockstar isn’t that it doesn’t work. It’s that they are at level 10 and everyone else is at level 5. So what do you do when you wanna play a different level 10 game? The level Fives aren’t capable of climbing to level 10. So the only thing we can do is to urge the existing level 10 to change to provide variety. Hence, it’s like asking Nintendo to make Mario run faster rather than playing sonic.

[@user-uo5st2re6m]

@@MetallicFear not really. Commercial success doesn't equates good gameplay or artistic value. We are not asking for red dead to be Dishonoured. but that doesn't mean you cannot improve on it without removing the essence of what makes it great (for gta the essence is freedom). Dishonored is not as commercially successful as gta v but it's not a level 5 game. it has qualities better than Gta V (weapon utility and environmental interactivity). You shouldn't just be like: "oh this is a level 5 game." "this is a level 6 game" without being fair about some of their aspects better than a level 10 game. And the level 10 game can learn from it without breaking it's essence or changing the game so much that it loses its identity. Even in level 5 games there are things level 10 games can learn from without breaking its identity

[@MetallicFear]

Everyone is free to criticise what they want. But I’m not comparing dishonored and gta. They are two completely different genre. In open world sandbox game or “GTA-like”, rockstar is without a question the top dog. Mind you they are absolutely not perfect. Of course they can learn from other studios. It’s about “why” we are criticising them. If the overall consensus is positive from both critics and consumers alike, calling its mechanic outdated and demanding them abandon it is absurd. Any project of various scale is built with collaboration of various talents. But if you want that project to succeed, it needs a singular vision. Sometimes this can backfire catastrophically (cough cough Balan Wonderland) but so far, it hasn’t at rockstar. The combination of all elements people criticise is what makes their games special. It’s a carefully crafted and balanced jenga tower. We do not know which blocks are essential or not. The tower is perfectly balanced now. Yes we have seen it many times so far and some of us are sick of looking at it. But majority aren’t. Toppling that tower can literally crumbling everything you have. Why would you?

[@MetallicFear]

This gonna turn into essay battle lol. Honestly though, I appreciate the comments. This video was never meant to be in depth so I definitely missed quite a few marks. Some things I’ve said could’ve been fleshed out a bit better. Some of it were fleshed out as I was responding to you lol. I’ll definitely make a follow up. Thanks.

[@user-uo5st2re6m]

@@MetallicFear 1."If the overall consensus is positive from both critics and consumers alike, calling its mechanic outdated and demanding them abandon it is absurd." Not every review share yhe same value. Some of it's consensus are from people who only have about 100 hours into a game or who hasn't even tried story mode. You want valur in your criticism you need to listen to feedbacks from people who has the most genuine experiences and not some cheap tourist. 2.I understand that big studios need singular vision but that's how all studios function. Yet it doesn't lessen the value of the criticism. I also understand that if you want to be every genre all at once you are gonna end up being nothing. "The tower is perfectly balanced now. Yes we have seen it many times so far and some of us are sick of looking at it. But majority aren't. Toppling that tower can literally crumbling everything you have. Why would you?" That's because, you need experimentations in the industry. One game structure can only be refined so far. Also by this logic, if the game developers never take a chance to experiment, and play safe with the same structure eveytime, you'd end up with franchise like Call of duty and assassin's creed. Even movies are guilty of this. Spider verse is a huge success because in the sea of pixar films all doing cute cartoonish characters and environments that looks perfect. They took the risk of flopping to experiment by making the world feel gritty and down to earth. It's special because of it.

[@charlieejc_]

I disagree personally with your point at 1:40, those two characters may have been arguing minutes before but they know each other very well, if you know someone well enough it’s pretty normal to have a regular conversation after an argument.

[@troytroytroytroyuiui]

I love rockstars design. i get a fantastic well written story that flows at a great pace, and whenever i want to mess around with the world i can. Instead of being a jack of all trades i think rockstar perfected both. Great linear story telling + the kings of open world design and creating a living breathing world. Thank you Rockstar.

[@jplosts]

You don't know what jack of all trades is because that's exactly what rockstar is.

[@troytroytroytroyuiui]

@@jplosts as i said, rather than being a jack of all trades. Rockstar PERFECTED BOTH. Jack of all trades implying that they are pretty good at everything and not a master of any. I think its you who dont know what jack of all trades is because thats not what rockstar is.

[@vicclein]

What :D Its not like there are Rockstar Games on the top and other games cant come even close so we wanna more from R*. What about MGSV:TPP or Last of Us 2 or Witcher 3 or Dishonored? R* is able to make less scripted videogames with more variability in gameplay but they dont want to cause its safer that way (any kid can beat the game). Its also easier to program, I think. Heavily scripted games should be movies - not games! Game should give you tools and let you play (resolving missions) your way. Just let me find my own options to do a thing. Gimme target but let me find my own way to finish it. Its far more interesting. Use what only your artistic platform allows. Fulfill purpose of your medium. How would you feel about film, where character explicitely telling what they think and feel rather then showing it. You know cimena rule: "show dont tell"? "Don't get them dragged. Let them resolve!" should be same thing for game developers.

[@jaymenjanssens720]

Um, GTA Online & Definitive Ed are what's worrisome about 6

[@privatesgooglekonto7638]

its not criticisms, its critique(s)

[@jplosts]

Shout out to nakey jakey and real Rockstar fans, who played the old games that wer more open than these scripted arena shooting gta's. Content. Creators like him and others make devs try new stuff and make smart gameplay designs, not scripted linear garbage. Why are you comparong GTA with a lame openworld like starfield? Yes bethesda is lame, so? Have you played the new hitman trilogy, mgsV, or other good sandboxes. Do you even know what sandbox means? GTA was always trying to be sandbox and that stopped with gtaV because of normies like you. They are making games for dummies not people who like to engage with smart gameplay decisions, oh and those games that I've mentioned have linear stories so cry about it.