Did George Lucas Steal From Dune? The REAL Story With Star Wars & Frank Herbert

Did George Lucas Steal From Dune? The REAL Story With Star Wars & Frank Herbert. We breakdown the real-life history of what happened between George Lucas and Frank Herbert in the aftermath of accusations that Star Wars copied from Dune.
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Ok so with Dune Part 2 being a film phenomenon it's made a lot of people start to look at Star Wars differently. There's been a lot of tweets talking about how George Lucas ripped Frank Herbert off and I thought I'd dive into the story to talk about what happened. I know this is a topic that comes up everytime something Dune releases so I wanted to put together all the info that I could find.
In this video we're gonna cover Frank Herberts reaction and some of the issues that stemmed out from it. Obviously I'd love to hear your thoughts too and the side that you fall on after we go through the story. Personally I love both franchises and think that Star Wars has gone off and done it's own thing. Still though its a conversation worth getting into and firstly I wanna talk about the main similarities.
There's Arrakis and Tattooine, sandcrawlers, mention of spice and the mysterious religious figures that control people with their voice.
There's moisture farmers, emperors and empires soldiers, rebellions and a chosen one thats like a messiah.
These are something that were noticed early on with Newspaper.com chronicling this article from the Associated Press. This asked whether Dune was a star wars spin off and people quickly got in touch with Herbert.
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[@heavyspoilers]

Like I said I love both and this isn't done just to throw shade on Star Wars. Just thought the history of it would be interesting to dive into with it being a talking point at the moment.

[@fredriks5090]

C S Lewis did the space messiah thing first. Both Star Wars and Dune basing their main story on a real life thing (the chosen one/messiah) with hints of other real life myths means both of them are ingenuous for not openly disclosing their influences.

[@lts_Bubba]

Dune came first

[@sharenee7428]

He already admitted he was inspired by it. Many of the comic books have inspired each as well. I think stealing would be a reach. I always like your videos so I’m not arguing I’m just saying these types of videos can get people riled up and next thing you know everyone will be calling the man a thief.

[@rogerroger5171]

There is an old saying. Stealing from 2 or 3 people is called plagiarism. Stealing from 20 people is called research. Don't forget, the protagonist from SW was named after one of Jesus' apostles, just like the one from Dune.

[@TheSsjJoker]

Omi the only similarities is the whole sand planet and empire other than that Star Wars has its own thing

[@jaykaye594]

"Talent borrows, genius steals." I said this Mr. Spoilers, when I invented plagarism.

[@heavyspoilers]

Wait….

[@pacman_17]

We can all agree Star Wars is better. Call it Dune upgrade if you want.

[@carpemkarzi]

That’s what I said……

[@Shane-hx4xp]

How dare you steal plagiarism from me I invented it not you!

[@jaykaye594]

@@Shane-hx4xp How dare You steal plagiarism from ME! I invented it not you!

[@nellypringle2875]

Notable differences: 1. Arrakis is basically the most important planet in the Dune universe; Tatooine is a backwards rock and frustratingly far away from the main action for the hero. 2. In terms of the original Star Wars trilogy, Luke is the hero but not a “chosen one”. He’s an everyman and our avatar who grows up over three films - his journey to becoming a Jedi is synonymous with him becoming an adult (and a Jedi’s core values are basically the same as our own ideals of adulthood). Luke is not an exceptional person at all in A New Hope. Paul is very quickly shown to have special powers and a special birthright in Dune. He’s obviously exceptional and the great hope of the entire universe. 3. The Empire is a more clearly defined evil in Star Wars and the rebels are trying to restore the republic that existed previously, on behalf of the entire galaxy. The Death Star is symbolic of the Empire’s oppression and is the main target for the rebels in A New Hope. Paul works within the empire and even marries into it in an attempt to affect change from within. It’s not necessarily seen as evil but the story is obviously a critique of Imperialism and Colonialism. 4. The Force is an idea borrowed from Hinduism (Brahman) in which every living thing is connected on a spiritual level as an underlying reality of the universe. The Jedi were Samurai-like warriors who could gain an awareness of that underlying reality through training and used that awareness and their connection to it to defend the republic. The Bene Gesserit are a more ambiguous and select sisterhood with their own long-term agenda. They have a different set of powers to the Jedi: though the main overlapping one is the concept of “The Voice”, there is an obvious difference in whom it can work on - i.e. anyone who isn’t deaf, rather than only the weak-minded. 5. Spice is of very little importance in Star Wars, other than as a means for Han Solo to get in trouble with Jabba the Hutt; the most important “substance” in the Star Wars galaxy is obviously The Force. In Dune, Spice is by far the most important substance in the Universe.

[@ExtremeMadnessX]

Paul is Anakin, not Luke.

[@nellypringle2875]

@@ExtremeMadnessX There’s a case for that, I guess. I’ve never been a fan of the Anakin “chosen-one” ret-con that the sequel trilogy gave us, personally. It’s not even a particularly useful plot-point, other than to make the other Jedi either wary of him at the beginning or caught off guard when he turns later on. The story would work exactly the same if he was just a promising young Jedi who fell to the dark side.

[@bjrmagic1]

The biggest person that took inspiration from Dune , is by far and away, Robert Jordan (Wheel of time) …also my favorite book series:)

[@tronam]

Yeah, Dune was my favorite science fiction book as a teenager, and when I started getting into WoT back in the 90s it was one of the first things I noticed. The Aes Sedai/Bene Gesserit, Saidin/Fremen parallels (among others) were so blatantly obvious. 😂

[@ragingtomato04]

nope, the biggest person who stole from Frank Herbert is Jodorowsky with his incal graphic novel series.

[@kitkatcoz]

Storytelling is so old that it's nearly impossible to be completely original. Some themes are universal and it's how they're executed that makes them unique

[@chillhour6155]

Well there's only Dune and Star wars I know of

[@laartwork]

His original draft is way more stolen from Hidden Fortress.

[@RubenLopez-vi8ng]

At the end of Dune messiah Chiani dies in childbirth with twins……….

[@purefoldnz3070]

its not that simple. Since lucas stole from everyone and anyone but when someone tried to make something inspired by Star Wars he sued their asses.

[@RampidWarthogStudios]

Nothing against similarities. But Anakin is a carbon copy of Paul... which is kinda dumb

[@Youcancallmeishmaell]

Not just Dune there are certain book that define space opera... John carter of mars. Lensmen. Foundation. Starship Troopers.

[@tpsf30]

writers and creators often borrow - no one is talking about how Frank Herbert borrowed from Isaac Asimov's Foundation Series. What's that BS ppl like to throw around...? "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

[@VSMOKE1]

Borrow nah they're stealing Way to diminish somebody's hard work Borrow means you asked to use it nobody asked anything from anybody here

[@maikilreategui1271]

IKR. said the same thing

[@Matt-yj1lz]

I think the difference is Herbert acknowledged he took inspiration from foundation. While as far as I know George hasn't acknowledged dune

[@en9587]

The difference is the acknowledgment. And also one could argue there’s a lot more originality from The Foundation to Dune than with Dune to Star Wars

[@maikilreategui1271]

@@en9587 That last part is certainly not true. With prequels and jedis and war.

[@Jerome-iwnl]

Dune "stole" from Isaac Asimov's "Foundation", who also "stole" from Edward Gibbon's "History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire"

[@cokebottles6919]

Lucas took a bunch of things from Dune, but focusing on that ignores all the differences, and once you start pointing those out it's clear they are entirely different things. Thank goodness too.

[@sethbrundels]

they ALL stole from john Carter of Mars

[@sethbrundels]

@@senantiasa go and read the books

[@redfive5856]

As a Star Wars fan, I'll just say, Heck yeah he did.

[@Twafflejc]

It's funny how, at the time of the beginning of StarWars, Dune "fell" in popularity because of the trilogy. Fast forward to nowdays, looks like StarWars fell while Dune has risen (from the sands) in popularity with Villeneuve's movie.

[@felixlangat9777]

The voice, the force....tatooine, arrakis......spice, well, spice......the chosen one element.... the great mothers, Bene Gesserit...the concept of a religious group that holds power...the political structures with Impiriums. I can definitely see the inspiration. No question about that.

[@ExtremeMadnessX]

Twins... wife that died after giving birth...

[@eyoung1683]

Lucas stole ''THX-1138'' from George Lefferts. In 1950, the old sci-fi radio show ''Dimension-X'' & ''X Minus 1'' (same thing) did an episode called ''Hello Tomorrow'' - eventually at least twice. It was the same story as Lucas' first film. You can hear it on YT.

[@Infamous1892]

This is not news. Everyone who says anything negative about George Lucas is an idiot. He used Dune, as well as Flash Gordon, Buck Roger's, and old pulp sci-fi comics to create his own universe. He's not thief he's a genius. That's how to write. Take what you love, and combine it with other ideas you love and you can create something special. Lucas is King.

[@Nickypecs]

Anyone else get reminded of attack of the clones in the arena scene with feyd harchonnen? And Jabba the Hutt overlooks the arena just like the baron

[@TheMarkmcr]

No, but the endings are hard to distinguish

[@mrlee123ish]

Also Vader is Luke’s father and Harkonnen is Lady Jessica’s father and Paul’s grandfather

[@MrSoopah]

I always thought it was "inspired" by John Carter

[@Phoenixking50166]

NO ONE SHOULD COMPARE DUNE TO STAR WARS. star wars has likable characters, a cohesive plot and fleshed out motivations.

[@bruh_hahaha]

Lucas has all but admitted he lifted major plot points and design ideas from Dune. Lucas however got to the masses first, so history it is.

[@that.canadian.vaper.guyTCVG]

Legend says that George Lucas made Anakin Skywalker hate sand as definitive proof that he, in fact, is not, absolutely, undeniably, indubitably, is *not* a carbon copy of Paul Atreides. *Indubitably.* Jokes aside, come on. He obviously copied Dune. But the stories differentiate enough that he made Star Wars his own. Its basically like using the Heroes Journey outline, which George Lucas did, and creating your own story with that skeleton. Frank Herbert knew this as well, George may have copied his world and idea, yet he created an atmosphere and a world that became his own. It would be dismissed in court because Star Wars in itself is so massive that it'd be impossible for George to have stolen the entire story from Frank. I dont mind it though, both stories and worlds are absolutely amazing in their own rights. Star Wars is more disney whereas Dune was more dark and gritty with heavy themes. I could go on and write an entire essay about this, but ill let it go from there.

[@unleashthedog]

I remember discovering the Star Wars VHS in my dad's collection when I was 12. And I was blow away. Then I read a few more sci-fi novels from the likes of Edgar Rice Burroughs or Robert A. Heinlein and watched Alien... and I was forever disgusted that Star Wars was described as "sci-fi" when it's clearly mostly "fantasy". The original trilogy is still decent, but anything that came after is hot garbage (except the Battle of Kashyyyk and a few other scenes)

[@tylerdurden2017]

In a world where Quentin Tarantino has his critics saying he plagiarizes, when he just paying homage with a scene or a dance, Star Wars is pretty egregious in what it “borrows” from dune. At least QT will tell you, I took this from said movie, where Lucas can’t do the same for dune

[@Ruylopez778]

There are plenty of videos citing Lucas' references, based on comments Lucas has made in commentaries and interviews. There's nothing in Dune that doesn't also exist in history or other literature.

[@9to5_]

I mean he was definitely was inspired by Dune lol.

[@gamervet4760]

Kind of. I'd say more like inspired. Instead of a tribe of desert hermits, there's one. Instead of the voice, it's the force. There aren't any sandworms either. I've read Dune a lot, and there are similarities, but George added space wizards and a giant death laser that blows up. It got to a point where someone made a Dune movie that felt more like Star Wars in the 80s. Which was my introduction to Dune. Until I read the books.

[@SamuelMcCullough-yv6rc]

I believe that both Dune and Star Wars are some of the most interesting and ground breaking stories made. But for people to undermine George Lucas because their are similarities in story lines is completely bogus, Their are many things in dune that are by no means similar to Star Wars and vice versa. People who say dune or Star Wars are ripoffs of the other are just biased. There are no fremen in Star Wars, their are not Jedi in dune. Let the franchise existed in peace. And to the people blaming for the demise of Star Wars because he sold it, just know he sold his franchise so he could have a normal life with his adopted daughter

[@shellw1506]

Wait until you see Avatar… that’s a total copy of dune, with a desert replaced by a jungle, Freeman replaced with whatever those blue people were called….

[@_khooman_chronicles_]

0:59 It is "Whether *Star wars is a Dune spin-off" not the other way. You got it backwards, the news article on the screen was the correct one.

[@themadcroad5806]

9.8/10 movie. Only gripe. When the word: “shit” was said twice kinda annoyed me.

[@wrist-snap3444]

Pretty sure Star Wars is straight from Navajo mythology- thus why it's been dubbed in Navajo

[@dudumdeedumdumdeedum]

definitely. Enjoy star wars as a child and look into more mature sci-fi and/or fantasy as you mature.

[@ChillingCrowley]

Steal is a strong word, inspired by is kinder.

[@TheJurnalyst]

That's kinda strong...

[@TheCenobyte]

Something that a lot of people fail to understand about Dune that annoyed Frank Herbert back in the day (and I see it happening again with the new movies) is that it is not the tale of a hero. It is in part, about belief and the exploitation of those beliefs to further your own goals. It is a cautionary tale. Paul is not someone to be admired.

[@Dominus-Noctis]

I believe this shows pauls innocence more. He is being driven with no real control over whats happening.

[@knghtbrd]

If you are seeing "hero" in Paul in Dune 2021, you need to watch it again. Remember, Jessica wanted off the planet, PAUL wasn't satisfied with escape, he wanted vengeance even knowing where that would go.

[@laartwork]

Huh? Did you watch Dune Part 2? Paul is not the good guy. Chani even leaves upset at the end (which upset some viewers that she isn't subservient to him). If anything the movies take a harder stance (at least more obvious) than Herbert did.

[@jocquiwilliams7635]

I love when people try to tell others who’s bad and who’s good we are all different and see things differently 😅 for example “thanos was right” the world isn’t all black and white “no one good is ever truly good, and no one bad is never truly bad” - Loki 😅

[@TheCenobyte]

@@jocquiwilliams7635 Fair enough. But what I shared is the author’s own opinion.

[@jpando2711]

In the biography "George Lucas: A Life" by Brian Jay Johnson, Lucas admits to having read and taken inspiration from Dune, among other works. (Update: I cited the wrong biography, it was actually Mythmaker by James Baxter. )

[@twincast2005]

Is that an actual quote by Lucas? I guess I'll have to find me a copy...

[@Matt-yj1lz]

Yeah I mean there's zero chance George didn't read dune.

[@curtquinlan9870]

It was never a secret that Star Wars is inspired by Dune.

[@jpando2711]

@@curtquinlan9870 Of course, but Paul's video seemed to imply that George never gave any credit to Frank Herbert. While there are plenty of things to bash George Lucas on, this wasn't one of them.

[@UrbanMediaReview]

It's hard to prove now of course... But if we had conventions back then it'd be easier... The older star wars fans will tell u... Prior to any movie being made on either side... DUNE was projected to be a better movie.. the dune hive was crazy.

[@MJT409]

It’s good that Dune now has the high ground and Star Wars has lost its legs.

[@loftyguy11]

😂

[@glennac]

I see what you did there. 😉

[@kapanabg]

Bro is saying how Dune is better and in the same time he is nurding with Star Wars things 😂😂

[@chillhour6155]

That's what you get when you replace Wookies with Wokies

[@DavidBucheli]

@@kapanabgthis is the way it has been written

[@agabrielrose]

Wait til these Dune fans get a hint about Cordwainer Smith. Norstrilia = Arrakis, Stroon = Spice, Lords & Ladies of the Instrumentality = Bene Gesserit. Frank was respectful, but he owes a lot to the Rediscovery of Man.

[@agabrielrose]

To the guy who commented and I guess deleted his comment - I wasn't talking about the book Norstrilia which was published in 1975, but the planet Norstrilia which first appeared in Smith stories in the mid to late '50s. Even the story the novel was based on, The Planet Buyer, was published a year before Dune, and likely written years before that. I'll concede that there's some uncertainty about which came first, The Planet Buyer or Dune, as the former was published in 1964 and the latter started serialization in '63, but Smith's universe, with it's Santaclara drug "stroon" had already existed for many years before Dune was written.

[@attackofthecopyrightbots]

They never will because dune fans like to act like star wars doing the same thing dune did is some huge sin but dune taking inspiration from anything they turn a blind eye to it or just dont know enough to see that

[@Bas-TB]

You got to wonder didn’t GL want to buy FH a nice dinner, or did his legal representatives told him explicitly not to do so? At the time GL might have forgotten where he picked up some of the inspiration and/or he might have picked up some of the elements from the sci-fi readers around him. Ralph McQuarrie was instrumental in the visuals of Star Wars, his drawing are based on GL’s early drafts. And in turn the movies are based on his drawings. So whenever someone like Ralph McQuarrie has read Dune or not had or could have had an impact on SW as we know it (or we might not have known it).

[@hallowedground4101]

Lucas DEFINITELY read the damn book. But he mashed it up with other influences, and made it his own

[@dylandamn1]

The lightsabers, the music, and most importantly the movie was just really good. The practical effects with the matte paintings. The editing saved the movie. Dune has the main source but George made it into a triple a blockbuster. No disrespect to either but they’re both awesome in their own right.

[@robertomanon]

Honestly i agree with lucas. The "similarities" aren't even the same or as important in both worlds and play differently in the story. People tend to say that the benne gesserit are "the jedi" but George has expressed that they're are inspired by samurais, philosophy and spiritualism, The Bene Gesserit are a group of woman that want to control the universe, totally different from the Jedi. Some of this "similarities" aren't really "the same". For example: yes, both have desert planets but in SW tatooine is irrelevant to the universe. in Dune it's the entire story about that planet and its spice. Also sand crawlers arent the same as spice collectors. The Jawas steal ans sell junk, i dont see how thats similar to the spice collector. Also the rebel alliance is based on the vietnam war and WWII with the empire being the American army and the nazis, while the rebeks are based on the Vietnamese. The "rebels" in the Dune universe are religious fanatics. And people can't that luke jurney is the same as Paul's because both took from joseph campbell heroes journey I love Star Wars, and i am loving the Dune universe, but honestly the similarities are ver surface level or used in a different context. A lot of the thing SW took inspiration are in other media too. But I'm surprised about people not understandin or knowing what is Intertextuality, like everything is inpired from something made before, even Dune has its inspirations. And the things that inspired dune also have inspirations

[@Accuratetranslationservices]

What really copied Dune is Warhammer 40k. In two big ways: (1) Space travel works exactly the same: mutant humans being the only way for interspace travel to work because they can sense the right paths. (2) Computerization being illegal because of a devastating past war between robots and man….and then also more generally speaking both have a messianic emperor of man, a lot of cloning and/or breeding for specific traits to get perfect humans over many generations, prison planets As a massive fan of Dune … I don’t really think Star Wars ripped off Dune much at all. Maybe George read it and it gave him a few ideas, but the similarities are very superficial… like “there’s a desert planet”… oh.. lol I mean how many biomes can you have? Dune takes place virtually only one desert planet, Star wars all over, with all sorts of planets, and one happens to be a desert one… Dune has the main character a noble who goes to the desert planet.. SW has a commoner leave the desert planet… and star wars has every type of planet, snow, urban, jungle.. were they supposed to leave out desert because Dune had it? All hallmarks of star wars do not exist in Dune in any form.. no “force” or any equivalent… no laser swords… no robots in Dune compared to Star Wars having them everywhere including prominent characters and entire armies… and princess irulan vs leia… what is the similarity exactly? They are both princesses? That’s the only similarity I can think of, and Dune did not invent princesses… and Leia is barely a princess more like they just call her that

[@RH1812]

Ahh youngsters. This was all discussed at the time. 😂 there is no doubt Dune influenced Star Wars. It has since gone its own way. Regarding Herbert, a lot of his short stories are film worthy. One that sticks with me is Dragon in the Sea..a submarine based thriller. Though Villeneuve could take a look at Ian M Banks universe. Let’s get the Culture into cinemas.

[@MarkAnthonyHenderson]

Since you mentioned Harry Potter. Harry Potter is very similar to Ursula K. Le Guin's Wizard of Earthsea.

[@treborkroy5280]

"It's not about where you got it from, but where you take it to." - some dude

[@TheSsjJoker]

SIMILAR with sand planets and empire but other than that not much tbh

[@colinwithonel]

Its pretty easy to say he copied Dune when you look at Tatooine, but its definitely different after they leave the planet. More of an homage or even using it as a theme for the first act. And yeah Lucas is the one who propelled the whole genre into film, and with a low budget and high quality of special effects, borrowing from a variety of epic moments in cinema, which would be reciprocated by every scifi movie since then. But even after all that and you come to the modern Dune movie, its definitely not Star Wars. Dune is much more serious and philosophical/political. Star Wars is much more like Flash Gordon than Dune, with the hero journey providing most of the moral of the story, at least until the prequels presented a stronger political theory. But even then its not making the same point at all. Even if you want to say Star Wars is about “be a better man than your father, or your forefathers, etc,” its still not such an original idea in 1977.

[@jerryjayson67]

To be Fair Frank Herbert was inspired by HG Wells and Lots of Influence's from Wells, The Sleeper Awakes in The DUNE story Just like in Music, they many artist have influence in Earlier works of other Artist and Authors

[@curtisbryce5096]

Good artists borrow, great artists steal. - Picasso

[@WilkenWilkins]

not stealing

[@uniqueflowsnake]

Good artists borrow, great artists steal. - Picasso - uniqueflowsnake

[@purefoldnz3070]

he stole everything like a thief with the voice of Kermit the frog

[@ShortRound42]

Everyone knows this for decades. George talks about it openly. He made Star Wars like a love letter to his favorite pulp adventures. Mainly, The Princess of Mars (the Edgar Rice Burroughs Mars John Carter books, especially the first one, names settings, the creatures), then Saturday matinee serials swashbuckler movies (the lightsaber duels, leaping, rope swings, Flash Gorden/Han Solo, etc), then his love of hot rod custom cars (Millennium Falcon), his love of Kurosawa films (Hidden Fortress plot is basically Star Wars), love for Dune (desert/Tattoine, The One MoaDib/Luke), his love of comics, samurais for the names, the look of Vader, etc. It's not stealing. He took influence from all those things and blended it into a new style of cinema in the 70's with miniature models, the first use of Photoshop, the wild creatures and costumes, new innovative sf/x and new sound design.

[@markpjf85]

A bit of both I wouldn’t call it stealing eastern culture like the samurai Religious beliefs, sci-fi elements of his writing on a desert planet. I think he had inspiration from Dune. That true

[@carpemkarzi]

Yeah I see the influences and see Star Wars as Dune for beginners But seriously, Dune is a classic and I am just glad it finally has a solid adaption. sci-fi has stolen from itself for years and it has grown to be able to appeal to so many.

[@thespicemelange.1]

I'm pretty sure it has some sort of an influence, but I don't think it was a total rip off. There is a lot of coincidences, but definitely not plagiarized.

[@christopherflux6254]

Almost all Art is derivative. Dune influenced Star Wars. Lawrence of Arabia influenced Dune. As long as it’s not a direct rip off, then it’s fine. I’m both a Dune and Star Wars nerd, although I was into Dune first and I’m into it more. I’m grateful both exist!

[@pittbull]

Lawrence of Arabia got released in December 1962. The first Dune book got released in 1963 where Frank Herbert has spent several years writing it.

[@Ruylopez778]

@@pittbull But T E Lawrence was a real person, who published his autobiographical accounts in 1926. Herbert (and his fans) can certainly claim to trace back his ideas to a variety of sources including his varied interests and journalism. What he (and they) can't do is pretend that other people can't similarly accuse Herbert of being "influenced" by others, or of similar ideas existing before his novel was written. Principle photography for Lawrence began in May '61 - which means it must have in production from early '61 or even earlier, depending on how long the script and casting took. And there were previous attempts to adapt 7 Pillars of Wisdom, so let's not pretend there was no discussion about the concepts, movie or story before '62. Did Herbert know about the movie's production, and take a lot of ideas from it while working on Dune, or did he read 7 Pillars, forget about, and then think of the same idea years later? Who knows.

[@harrywatson2694]

star wars doesnt particularly have any notable differences from dune every event fits the same framework with the same characters

[@cringekiller348]

Star wars was shit.

[@Whoyouwishyouwere]

Dune is boring

[@criticalhitgg]

There is also a spice mining planet in Star Wars called Kessel where spiders make the spice instead of worms

[@alexstewart9747]

The Wheel of Time blatantly borrowed from Dune and George Martin stole from everyone.

[@aaronhooper1551]

The Dune books and also Foundation books. Foundation is really good. Wish you would break that series down

[@Shemus_Beasken]

Read the dune books,,,(master piece story telling)...never heard of foundation do,,will check em out..ta 👍

[@maikilreategui1271]

@@Shemus_BeaskenFoundation was out way before Dune. Also Foundation is called the father of scify. Also there are too many similarities and parallels to not be just a coincidences.

[@Shemus_Beasken]

@@maikilreategui1271 Nothing new under the sun 👍

[@jimboshrump]

I find dune more enduring than enjoyable 🤷‍♂️

[@WilkenWilkins]

well then you don’t understand it at all

[@Subject_Keter]

Never seen it but if it came out nowdays instead of posioning the well, who knows.

[@GForceIntel]

Star Wars is both enduring and enjoyable, depending on which movies or series are mentioned. The last 3 parts were trash and some series are just beyond terrible.

[@Viera5525]

Star wars is inspired by Dune, but a song of ice and fire is a little bit more similar if you think of house Atreides and house Stark.

[@Jack-The-Narrator]

They all copied Foundation, that's fact.

[@patrickradcliffe3837]

Maybe elements, but that is a reach. Star Wars is missing the Harry Seldon aspect. I mean the only connection would be a galaxy spanning empire. Foundations lasted for thousands of years. Stars Wars lasted less then fifty.

[@Jack-The-Narrator]

@@patrickradcliffe3837 If you count the newest movie, Luke sort of becomes a Hairy Selden after his Death/Force ghost return.

[@patrickradcliffe3837]

@@Jack-The-Narrator not really Selden left a series of holograms nothing interactive. Force ghosts are the souls of the Jedi and interact with the characters. To me other than the Galaxy spanning empires it's just not there. Now if you want to say Lucas ripped another writer off then my money would be the Lensman by E.E. Doc Smith.

[@Jack-The-Narrator]

@@patrickradcliffe3837You are correct. I'm not implying anyone ripped off Isaac Asimov directly, Just that all good space fiction came after Foundation.

[@patrickradcliffe3837]

@@Jack-The-Narrator I could say that about the Lensman series. A galaxy spanning police force that protects the peace plot has been used a lot too.

[@AngiMP]

The research is always on point!!

[@deanthemachine8879]

Prophesied Chosen One has twin children (a boy and a girl) where the boy is the one to carry on a refined version of the dad’s legacy

[@kristijan8518]

George Lucas stole from Frank Herbert, and Frank Herbert stole from Issac Asimov.

[@burieddreamer]

I don't know. Deserts are pretty standard. If you want to invent a planet that has a single biome, a desert is a staple of sorts. No one can say for sure it's a copy. George Lucas said that one of the visions he had of Darth Vader was him walking in a desert. It kind of mixed the samurai shape of the helmet with the cowboy theme in a desert. I think that picture compelled him to start the story in a desert. The original Star Wars has many nodes to cowboy stories, and that's completely different from Dune.

[@billtron182]

U can tell when Paul really likes a movie or series cause he does multiple dives into various different aspects of the production and I’m absolutely here for it! Been loving the dune 2 videos man! Stoked for the next classic breakdown a clockwork orange was great! 🔥

[@heavyspoilers]

Thank you man

[@summertyme5748]

I saw a review with Herbert from back in the 80’s and he said they ripped me off in broad daylight. He was always clear about it. Even subtler things like Vader = Lukes father parallels Baron Harkonnen being Paul’s grand father.

[@Ultron_Avengers_number_1_hater]

To be fair Lucas didn't even plan for Anakin and Vader to be the same character unless when he was making empire he decided to look at Dune again.

[@Hatecrewdethrol]

Bro literally any sci-fi setting after 1965 was bare minimum borrowing a little from Dune

[@Darth_yapper]

That's pushing it

[@gavinhelgeson2880]

Dune and Star Wars are totally different

[@walterhoward5512]

The problem with this kind of discussion is that it is myopic. Dune itself owes a lot to older stories like John Carter, the Lensman and Foundation series. Artists build on the ideas and techniques that came before. That's just how things work.

[@DropBear_42]

Yeah but that’s the thing, having overall concepts and ideals represented in stories is fine, after all how many original story arch’s can you really make? The thing with Lucas is he used super specific details from _Dune_ rather than concepts shared in many stories. The penultimate example of this being a supposed messiah who actually ends up being evil, he has a forbidden love that he shouldn’t, has twins with that lover, mother dies in childbirth, twins are separated, twins almost have a love/sex story, male twin meets up with his dad, dad and male twin defeat evil empire, male twin leads empire to peace and victory. I mean come on how specific csn you get lmao that’s a bit much 😂😂😅😅. And this is just the ultimate example, there is a lot of other stuff from gurney to the worms to the planet to the double moons/suns to the spice to the bene geserit as a faith using mind powers to control and influence people to the moisture farms and farmers to the sand worm I mean it’s endless and it’s not conceptual stuff it’s tiny little specifics that you don’t need at all to get your story across. Hell, even the name Skywalker originated as a word from Thrawn’s civilization for force sensitive people who could navigate the outer reaches of space without hitting space debris by using their force sensitive abilities. That’s LITERALLY exactly what spice is used for in the early pages of _Dune_ , it’s essentially identical!! And again, these are a handful of examples, not the entirety of them. You don’t think that’s a bit ridiculous? And the other thing is that Lucas refuses to fully admit it and give due credit.

[@senantiasa]

@@DropBear_42 Wow, that was a list!! I wasn't sure about this accusation, but now I'm pretty sure (unless some other commenter can provide evidence against this). This reminds me of Tesla vs Edison. Tesla invented, but Edison cashed in on it.

[@senantiasa]

@walter There is a limit to how much you can borrow. It's just like when songs are way way too similar to an older song, people will hate the new song because they don't want a copycat to benefit out of the hardwork of someone else. Can you tell me the similarities between John Carter/Lensman/Foundation and Dune? I have heard of this claim, but I haven't heard specifically what the similarities are.

[@walterhoward5512]

@@DropBear_42 The specific combination of these tropes is similar to Dune. But the execution is so different that I can't consider Star Wars a Dune ripoff. Anikan and Paul are both failed messiahs, but the reasons why they fail and their roles in the story after their failure are completely different. Spice is a passing reference in Star Wars, but in Dune, it is the most important substance in the universe that the whole story revolves around. It's just not the same.

[@walterhoward5512]

@senantiasa The John Carter series is the originator of the planetary romance subgenre is science fiction. Dune, being a planetary romance, owes its existence to John Carter. Some other similar elements are the vast desert planet, the use of anachronistic weapons in a sci-fi setting, and the story of an outsider going to an alien planet, learning their ways and becoming their champion or king. The Lensman story is about a centuries long, secret breeding program meant to produce a super being or race of super beings. That is very similar to Dune. The Foundation is similar because of the vast time frames of both stories and how they both show how empires can collapse and be rebuilt.

[@SnakeWasRight]

There is obviously some inspiration from dune, but the only similarity is a desert planet, a galactic empire, and jedi mind tricks, and jedi perhaps being similar to the word gesserit. That's it. Jedi powers are totally different, their role and backstory completely different, the desert planet is not really important, the empire isn't reliant on a single resource for ftl travel. Luke isn't a false messiah. The emperor is an ontological evil. And the thematic elements of both are completely different. It's fine. We can even say star wars is a riff on dune, but took all its elements and did something completely different with it, much like how ALL fantasy rips off tolkein, but (usually) does something very different with the similar aesthetics.

[@cmasterson]

You listed too much. Four are the only main points. So yeah.

[@twincast2005]

The plot started as a sci-fi remake of Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress and drifted into its own thing. The setting is a mix of Foundation (e.g. lazer swords, city planets, imperial capital as close to the galactic center as possible,...), Dune, and World War II (dog fights and imperial uniforms). There are multiple much more plausible proposed etymologies for Jedi. However, you forgot: Spice, which, sure, is a generic word, but not exactly what you'd expect people to come up with from scratch for a psychoactive drug, let alone the most prominent and most lucrative one in both universes. And as mentioned in the video, it used to be core to the plot in earlier versions. Sandcrawlers, which are utterly ludicrous unless you recognize them as expy spice harvesters. Sarlaccs, which are just stationary sandworms. And in the various drafts for Star Wars, the forces that eradicated the Jedi Bendu/Dai Noga/Jedi Bendu of Ashla/Jedi Knights were called Knights of Sith/Legions of Lettow/Black Knights of the Sith/Dark Lords of the Sith. There is zero chance it's a coincidence that "Lettow" resembles "Leto II" this closely. Some other names (especially of planets) also mildly raise an eyebrow, but no others come close to being definitely "inspired". Anyway, none of that is an issue. George Lucas denying Dune's influence (by claiming that he hadn't even read _the_ most popular sci-fi novel of his youth years, to boot), however, is.

[@HobbiesofaMan]

Yeah, and Dune is just a copy of Princess of Mars, it's not a big deal. People need to relax about this sort of crap, it doesn't make a difference in the end.

[@thegoldenstatesportclub2102]

No mention of Jack Kirbys New God's...

[@SalvableRuin]

I'm going to write a sci-fi book called JUNE so that British people won't be able to distinguish it from DUNE. Then I'll make a make a movie called STAA WOZ for the same reason.

[@GhostRydr1172]

Fucking yikes. I mean the Dune connections are all over the place since forever, but it's pretty shitty of Lucas to act like they aren't there or even acknowledge Herbert. Sadly, JK Rowling ripping off SW is even more obvious that's its not even funny. Sadly, you won't see Lucas or Disney suing her to the dust.

[@salamander337]

Of course he took some inspiration from all sorts of films. Not just Dune. You can see some Flash Godon and A Princess of Mars. Without Starwars there wouldn't be a Dune (1980) movie.

[@PatriotMapper]

I think it’s more likely that Dune and Star Wars were both copying John Carter than that Star Wars was copying Dune.

[@joncarroll2040]

It's pretty clear that SW was influenced by Dune but I don't think its fair to call it a rip off. Almost all of Dune takes place on Arrakis; they're only on Tatooine for about 20 minutes in the first movie and a maybe 45 in the third. The structure of the Empires are completely different. Star Wars has humanoid aliens; Dune doesn't. Dune makes a big deal out of havinng no AI; SW has droids. The fremen are a huge component of Dune; the Sand People (if you want to say that they are a Fremen substitute) have maybe ten minutes of screen time between two movies (one of which wasn't even made during Herbert's lifetime) and their culture is never explored. There are no sandworms in SW (the skeleton in ANH is a vertebrate and worms are invertebrates; it's clearly supposed to invoke some kind of dinosaur). Bindu is a word from sanskrit related to yoga and not something either of them came up with. Part of what made Star Wars so successful in the first place was that it drew on so much stuff that part of what passed for pop culture at the time and put a very modern spin on it. This made it accessible in a way that Dune never could have been at the time.

[@Subject_Keter]

Meanwhile GW with Big E, s u e us, we will crush you with a golden warhound!

[@mattyboyb523]

This is a great topic to discuss and potentially debate. Obviously there’s plenty of influence and inspiration coming from Herbert’s Dune and it would be nice to see Lucas acknowledge the fact, it’s a shame Herbert is no longer alive even if Lucas were to make the statement. All in all it’s gotten to a point where I’m not sure there’s ever going to be completely new ground breaking sci fi ideas. They will all be influenced by something until it becomes real life then real life takes the place of science fiction, lol. Very nice video Paul!! I prefer Herbert and Asminov’s stuff. It just feels more likely to happen but Star Wars is just so much more relatable to everyone

[@vorlux6354]

Watching Dune I'm seeing more similarities with Avatar than Star Wars (Blue People not the Cartoon)

[@LaidbakZak]

Idk like dune the desert planet is the whole point. Star Wars it’s just a location. Does frank have a monopoly on worlds that don’t have water. Welp guess frank owns most of the universe

[@hoppyandhisholidayhelpers1714]

Dune mentions the historic Robot Wars, Star Wars mentions the historic Clone Wars, yeah, complete rip off.

[@wjohnson1110]

No Dune, no Star Wars!

[@Darth_yapper]

George Lucas had other inspirations other than dune so there could've been sw without dune

[@JoshR813]

I thought George Lucas stole from Valarian City of a Thousand Planets when it was a comic strip in England.

[@bernbsy]

Valerian was a French series.

[@JoshR813]

@@bernbsy ooh ok. My bad. Thanks for the correction. I remember watching a video about how Lucas stole from this comic, I couldn't remember the details but I knew it was from somewhere outside of the states.

[@bernbsy]

@@JoshR813 No worries! Glad to see that someone knows and likes Valerian! Did you see Luc Besson's film version?

[@fatrunner]

When you look at a lot of successful creations there is always a lot of "influence" from others. Harry Potter is very derivative of several works (The Worst Witch and Wizards Hall to name a few). When D&D first came out the creators tried to play down the Tolkien influence when in fact many of the creatures and species were a direct copy and they were made to change the names of some of them as a result. Not saying it's right but there we go. I do agree Lucas should have acknowledged the similarities instead of ignoring it though, we're not stupid!

[@crystalross7943]

The fact that they are so similarly on 16 major point, he should have credited Dune as an inspiration.

[@chriswickham1279]

Short answer YES

[@doro626]

I think this 50 shades of Grey may have been taken from the Twilight series.

[@ndcp2379]

I’m ok with it because Starwars has elements of LOTR, John Carter, Dune, and Flash Gordon. However it has gone to become something unique. I would say LOTR, John Carter and Dune have literally inspired all fantasy and science fiction.

[@MykCola]

StarWars stole waaaay more frome Valerian.

[@Shemus_Beasken]

Dune + The Hidden Fortress = Star wars!.....But,,nothing new under the sun!

[@MatthewK122]

I like star wars orginal and prequels trilogy than Dune

[@Thebearmre7]

Yup

[@ghaytho.dabbagh1311]

They both stole from Isac Azimov's "Foundation" trilogy...

[@dhruv9744]

nahhh, its quite the opposite, Herbert's work is extremely original, the emperor of the universe is the only thing that they have in common, however Lucas straight up stole entire story points from Herbert.

[@ghaytho.dabbagh1311]

@dhruv9744 I red both dune and foundation, the similarities in the general concepts r obvious! Besides... Herbert himself mentioned that he was fascinated by Azimov's work ... no one can argue that Azimov's noviles were the foundation of modern science fiction literature and inspiration for most of the works to come, specially the robots and AI...

[@cusillo6976]

​@@ghaytho.dabbagh1311Robots and AI, of which there are none in Dune? The Emperor and prescience through deduction are the closest, which in Dune the whole point is that all of these things are vulnerable to abuse

[@ghaytho.dabbagh1311]

@cusillo6976 🤦‍♂️u got that exactly wrong!!! In Dune it is mentioned that robotics and AI were banned in the distant past due to there bad influence on human mentality development, which led to a major struggle. In foundation it's almost exactly the same thing, except that the robotics led a rebellion.

[@cusillo6976]

@@ghaytho.dabbagh1311 you're talking about the butlerian jihad, which is basically ancient history and is circumvented by factions not central to the plot of Dune. They weren't banned for hampering mental progress, they were banned for obfuscating consolidation of power. Holtzman AI was core to giving humans Dune era tech, because since the jihad advancement stagnated, but in Dune there are no AI nor robots. So no, it's not the same thing.

[@Zhaggysfaction]

Is water wet?

[@kevinkorenke3569]

Sure he did. Dune was already 15 years old at the time. Who cares? Both are great stories. If anything, Lucas drew inspiration from Dune, while most Sci Fi after SW was the blatant ripoff. There is a difference.

[@hansruediglaser]

Better you dont look into the valerian comics. 😅

[@ashtonturner2862]

To it bluntly, yes and also from the 1958 The Hidden Fortress.

[@jamesoshaughnessy9168]

Were the 50s serials not the inspiration for Indiana Jones more than SW?

[@seat2d]

Yes. Who the fk cares both are good.

[@bridgetboyle687]

lol Paul gets the sf names pronounced right but gets the French wrong. “Day clas say” is how you say déclassé

[@hansruediglaser]

Titel of the video should be: did george lucas steal from the valerian&veronique comics? Yes he did. I really dont care, i like both. But its obvious.❤ ✌️