Noam Chomsky on Fascism: Could It Happen Here?

democracynow.org - When Noam Chomsky was 10 years old, he wrote one of his first articles. It focused on the fall of Barcelona to Franco’s fascist forces. We talk to Chomsky about how fascism once rose in Europe and the possibility of it rising here in the United States.
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[@filrabat]

A tidbit about a lot of conventionally conservative Germans in the early 30s (landed aristocrats, wealthy industrialists, tradition-and-convention oriented middle class). When the Nazis won a lot of seats in the Reichstag (their parliament), they saw Hitler as an crackpot and an ignorant fool. The conservative powers-that-be thought they could manipulate him. Think about that one.

[@thethirdman225]

But don’t forget that those same conservatives did not oppose Hitler’s war. It’s an assumption of many people that if Hitler had been eliminated, the horror would have ended. But even when they tried to kill Hitler, there was no intention to stop the war.

[@sexynelson100]

0:10 I love Chomsky's reaction when she asks his age during 1939.. lol

[@Happy-uy5wc]

He is old enough to remember all of this first hand. How wonderful to have all of that knowledge of our recent history. Soon I too will be a legitimate sorse of history.

[@semiquantitatively]

Things are pointing towards trouble

[@cheekoandtheman]

Hehehehe

[@ToddSloanIAAN]

The elephant is in the room!

[@Pomiferous]

Just try going out to eat in public if you work for the Trump administration.

[@noneofyourbusinessna740]

nothing new history of humanity is full of trouble welcome to reality

[@marcusmees4625]

My father once told me that in the 1920s people used to go to Munich to listen to "that clown" (Hitler) and amuse themselves.

[@ToddSloanIAAN]

Lucky to compare.., you have Trump right here to tell of in the future!

[@elizabethbennet4791]

dang

[@ronalddino6370]

🤣

[@johnlee5423]

Hitler was an out and out idealogue, could you imagine Trump writing Mein Kamp no chance, that's not to say Trump is a dangerous clown.

[@Yatukih_001]

You know, I remember a phenomenon like that which, legend has it happened in Ukraine! People from all walks of life went all the way to Ukraine to ´listen to that clown (Zelensky) and amuse themselves´. It was all on the news and everyone was talking about him as if he was some kind of a clown or a circus master. Right after the last season of ´Man of the People´was shown on TV.

[@kentallard8852]

Around 4:50 he mentions it eliminated unemployment with indebtedness and military spending, that's true another way was banning women from having jobs and counting them in unemployed census creating sudden demand for unemployed men and massive road work programs

[@richardalevizosonemancorpo3509]

Is it a question anymore? Could it happen here? How about: "It happened here", AND "History repeated itself."

[@solaria5513]

Overreaction. There is no SS, or gestapo - we are well short of Fascism.

[@bebopobama4686]

@@solaria5513 Man...had I put a bet on this claim a year ago I'd be a rich man right now

[@solaria5513]

BepopObama explain

[@rickstevens1167]

I think you jumped the gun a bit, but yeah. Hitler was a Clown too in a sense. The Nazis used him as their public face, but he wasn't even warmly regarded to the point he wasn't expendable. Henning von Tresckow, for one, the followup by Rudolf von Gertsdorff, and finally the infamous July 1944 plot. All insiders, all culpable and de facto Nazis. Even Hitler, for all his Evil, wasn't even the most evil of the Nazis and is overshadowed by the brutality of other autocrats and their ilk, especially Stalin.

[@WiggleBabies]

@@solaria5513 Well we definitely use our military on our own soil as well as Trump praising the insane fascists that march around and shit. If Trump steals the election by throwing out the votes next week and gets the courts to do it then yeah we will have our first true bloody conflict and fascist takeover. Next week will be interesting lol. If he actually does it there will be huge civil unrest in the streets and people trying to invade the white house similar to what was happening during the Flyod death, but much worse. Trump will hands down use the military and those insane fascist groups will march and shoot as the terrorists they are. I'm actually leaning that Trump WILL try and do something as oppose to just walking away and taking the loss.

[@wp2746]

Have the children separated from their parents at the border of the United States of America been reunited after weeks of detention ?

[@smotnick]

Back in the early 90's he wrote that it couldn't, while Vidal wrote that it would.

[@Yatukih_001]

Turns oud, that Vidal was wrong.

[@smotnick]

@@Yatukih_001 I always considered him a little paranoid.

[@doublenegation7870]

It's happening here.

[@Tink-R-Toys]

Have You ever Listened to Consolidated's song "Friendly Fascism" released back in 1991?

[@blackestyang7528]

Ben Shapiro wishes Chomsky would pass on already so he can feel safe Edit: replies proving me right :D

[@justinfrazier3610]

Exactly

[@WildTrek]

Now Chomsky is advocating for concentration camps now. He’s a diluted fascist just like his predecessors.

[@blackestyang7528]

@@WildTrek .

[@WildTrek]

@@blackestyang7528 so removing the unvaxxed from society and letting them starve to death is a totally rational intelectual stance lol? 😂 wtf dude

[@blackestyang7528]

@@WildTrek so you've seen enough to know he caught and corrected himself in that same interview

[@DdDd-gd1rr]

A walking testament to history. VIVA CHOMPERS

[@lukethomeret-duran5273]

chompers LOL

[@AlexanderUnit-731]

"Fascism is an open terroristic dictatorship of the most reactionist elements of financial capital" - Georgi Dimitrov, 1943

[@TheCrayonMan529]

That's wrong

[@AlexanderUnit-731]

@@TheCrayonMan529 All fascist countries of the 20th century had capitalist regime: from Portugal to Greece & Turkey, from Indonesia & South Vietnam to Brasil & Chile - they all were US buddies during Cold War.

[@TheCrayonMan529]

@@AlexanderUnit-731 If they're a capitalist regime, they're not Fascist. Fascism elevated the state above capital, and utilized the latter for the betterment of the national body. It essentially subjected capital to the will in the state. Under Fascism, the state=the people.

[@AlexanderUnit-731]

​@@TheCrayonMan529 *Fascism elevated the state above capital* - Capitalism doesn't exist without capitalist state, just like feudalism doesn't exist without fedual state. Capitalism (economic type of society) can have liberal and fascist political ideologies. Fascists are against liberalism, but they are not against the capitalism (private ownership on the means of production). This is why German capitalists continued to own financial capital of the Reich (for example, Krupp and Thyssen remained as owners of their corporations). *Under Fascism, the state=the people* - Only in propaganda. Just like in the US Declaration of Independence "We The People..." written by slave-owners who called themselves liberals.

[@AlexanderUnit-731]

@@TheCrayonMan529 *It essentially subjected capital to the will in the state* - Robert McNamara - a capitalist (one of the major shareholder of the "Ford Industries"), a chief of Pentagon (main supporter of the US intervention against Communist revolution in Vietnam), and a president of the World Bank. Capitalist state and big business consist of the same people from the same capitalist class, they are all subjected to the will of their capitalist regime (doesn't matter if the state ideology is fascist or liberal).

[@Cpt.PickHard]

I love the shadow under his nose while he talks about fascism

[@imtiazqureshi2412]

This aged well

[@Tsuka-bn8hq]

'Trump is too much of a clown to become a fascist' As much as that line made me chuckle, it made me worry for the future. This is the same guy who was busy talking about his shock election victory as other nations banded together to denounce Assad's attack. The same guy who said military action in Syria should never occur, and blamed Obama's inaction on what happened to those innocent people. And almost a day later, finally commented on the attack. Let's remember that Obama put that to a vote and the result was a loud 'do not take action in Syria!' This is the guy who was called an idiot by ISIS. Jesus Christ let that sink in... and the same guy who is being tested by North Korea as he's burying his head in sand and looking for backup on his tweets, just to save face. And then you look at his approval rating... the important figure in all of this, in my opinion. What can any leader do to boost the public opinion of himself? WAR. It's hard to criticise the relatively smaller shortcomings and perversions of morality by him and his team when there is a war going on. If you had asked me 6 months ago if nuclear war was likely in my lifetime I would have laughed at you. Now, it's a completely different reaction. Just hoping North Korea does not take their threats to another level. That madman, surrounded by his family and yeasayers, that attacks any criticism and despises the free press, with access to nuclear weapons. Am I talking about Kim Jong-Un or Donald Trump? Correct answer gets you a place in a nuclear bomb shelter.

[@ToddSloanIAAN]

Tsuka2104 The parade, limited force ground nukes and war mongers itchy to thrust...! Watch you are right... war! It's not he could or he would it's that he will because he is on it already!

[@elizabethbennet4791]

him being a clown offers two impediments to fascist movement: 1. thsi means he's too stupid to organize it or to provide rhe necessary cover for gradual growth of a movement. 2. this means enough people wont take him seriously enough to follow him en masse (only other clowns) as reuired to grow a fascist movement

[@wanderleireltihfloda5561]

Regardless of what the ANTIFAglets try to claim, Trump iant a fascist. Trump is an individualist-- hes about Trump. A fascist isn't an individualist, but communist ANTIFAglets don't realize or acknowledge this because it doesn't advance the narrative for their homosexual "revolution" Tl;dr--- everyone is a "fascist" when you're a lisping vegan soyboy.

[@BiffChunksteak]

Well, you got your answer on Jan 6th

[@BiffChunksteak]

@@wanderleireltihfloda5561 Yall out of the closet yet?

[@elizabethbennet4791]

its concerning how stupid ppl are to have fascist tendencies!!!

[@stephenrice233]

He looks good

[@magicman2023]

This man is an international treasure

[@DrCruel]

Noam Chomsky certainly enjoys his international treasure. Trying to make it into a family business.

[@thexdatabase]

socialism!

[@magicman2023]

USA did in fact support Lenin, Hitler, Mussolini, Bin Laden, Al Zarqawi, Al Zawahiri, Al Baghdadi, AZOV

[@Jackzay90]

"We're lucky that there never has been an honest, charismatic figure. McCarthy was too much of a thug. Nixon was too crooked. Trump, I think, is too much of a clown. So we've been lucky. But we're not going to be lucky forever necessarily." DeSantis.

[@RedCloudBeechWaveAhh]

Is he still with us, and if so, what does he say, or what do his colleagues say about the present situation in the U.S?

[@svs8909]

we have had it since 1912 thanks wilson

[@dirkgonthier101]

It's happening now...

[@cherchuhaikieu4328]

2020: it’s happening right now in Portland!

[@randybobandy5538]

Fascist cops.

[@scod9746]

Chomsky should spend more time elaborating linguistically on how he thinks Trump "falls short of Fascism" when Trump says and does some fascist things. Perhaps his opinion is based on the definition that a government is Fascist only when it has total control, and that any politician or president that only acts like Mussolini but does not have as much support or legal control to impose more martial law is therefore not 100% Fascist and therefore only partly fascist does not deserve the label.

[@geoffreylee5199]

Regretfully the underlying police state attitude has become too prominent Stateside.

[@TWILS02119]

My question: has Chomsky become overtly fascist leaning in his later years? I’m not sure I understand that he is still against fascism. Fascism is the same existential threat it has always been. It always ends in bad conditions for those who utilize it .

[@ShapeshiftedCow]

Can you expand on what leads you to that doubt?

[@violentmelody90]

I doubt he would simply dismiss Trump as a clown now

[@kappy0405]

"We're not going to be lucky forever" Trumpism did create a solid foundation for Fascism to rise in this country. But like Chomsky said, he's a clown. He just wasn't able to get enough people on board. Mike Pence might be someone to worry about. He has the same radical authoritarian nationalism, but the personality to legitimize it.

[@AlexanderUnit-731]

In 1907 american writer Jack London wrote a fiction novel about rise of fascism in post-war USA as a result of 1913 World War and 1912 Economic Crisis. It is noteworthy that in the novel, fascist elites of USA blew up The US Gongress at Capitol Hill and blamed communists - just like actual German fascists (aka Nazis) did in 1933 by setting Reichstag on fire creating an excuse to establish a dictatorship. This novel was in school literature programm in USSR during all period of his existance (1922-1991).

[@nicolasdelaforge7420]

It also helps to know how great men saw America through history... I would add that the Founding Pattern of the U.S. is 'Disposession'. It's more than fascism. 'The whites, too, shall pass - perhaps sooner than other tribes. Continue to contaminate your bed and you will one night suffocate in your own waste" - Chief Seattle (c. 1786 - June 7, 1866) Suquamish and Duwamish Chief PRESIDENT LINCOLN ON THE AMERICAN REALITY "The money powers prey upon the nation in times of peace, and conspire against it in times of adversity. They are more despotic than monarchy and more insolent than autocracy. I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my people, my country. Corporations have been enthroned, an era of corruption will follow and the money powers of the country will endeavor and prolong its reign by working upon the innocence of the people, until the wealth is aggregated into a few hands and the republic is destroyed."

[@nathanielwestermann]

Franco and the Falangists were more right authoritarian Catholic reactionary (paleo-ultraconservative) than fascist. Of course, beyond the events and key figures, the differences between the two are largely cosmetic.

[@jyotishmanmudiar5958]

"McCarthy is too much of a thug, Nixox is crooked, and Trump is a clown- You see we are lucky."

[@ramsesribb2997]

Ooh my goodness, another ism. That's bad right.

[@DamagedCorpse]

RamsesRibb The word fascism has been around for years.

[@noneofyourbusinessna740]

all the isms same shit in a different box

[@shaquillewilliams7888]

half of the US was segregationist until the 60s ffs 💀

[@JAMAICADOCK]

America went through its fascist stage in the 19th century - as did Britain a century earlier So in that respect, perhaps what we call fascism is just primitive accumulation - the embryonic stage between feudalism and capitalism. The intersection of feudal barbarism and modernity is a particularly volatile compound - a combination we are presently seeing in the Arab World, India, China, the Philippines, Turkey etc which could lead to many catastrophic outcomes in the 21st Century.

[@hwb-zalpach]

THIN ICE

[@papadoc711]

Speakers being no-platformed from universities across America or Europe would be an example of fascism. I'm left wing and often my own tribe is responsible for this, a group that preaches liberal tolerance but are intolerant of opinions that they find offensive, "dangerous", or even fascist lol. homophobic, transphobic, islamophobic etc etc. In this day and age people need to be open to opinions they don't agree with, especially at a university.

[@kentallard8852]

For a long time people couldn't have talks opposed to the Vietnam war, students would break it up. The CPUSA, civil rights movement, anti war movement, black panthers, new left, women's lib movement, etc all came under attack from COINTELPRO. Up until 10-15 years ago if you wanted to hold a talk on Israel and Palestine you'd need compus security and police protection because of how much violence and threat was coming from the Zionist movement. And all of this was fine. Nobody thundering about freedom of speech and how dare they deplatform views they don't like. Because it was people and views not in power. But now people and the prevailing ideology are being silenced by college kids that don't want to be offended or dehumanised, its a great big catastrophe, free speech is under threat, how dare these leftwing thugs behave this way. It is an interesting contrast worth thinking about.

[@kentallard8852]

Oh I just thought of another, it was revealed a year and a half ago that the FBI has been infiltrating the church groups that protest out the front of the School of the Americas at Fort Bragg in North Carolina. Again not a peep from the mainstream press or the new breed of free speech defenders.

[@deschutesmaple4520]

@papadoc - I'm all for freedom of speech. At the same time, where do you draw the line? What if some movement came along that really wanted to bring back segregation, was starting to get popular-and its star speaker wanted to give a speech at a local university. Would that be OK for you?

[@papadoc711]

Deschutes Maple we already have groups advocating that shit, people like Muhammed Ali up and supported that till the day he died, whites talk about this, blacks talk about this, Muslims talk about this, Christians talk about this etc no group of people is exempt from this, nor is any one group exempt of racism. it's bullshit, but still they should be allowed to say it, challenge these people, show them why they're wrong, if you take away they're right to speech they'd just be more inclined to use violence. But its not people like that who are being banned, its people like Israeli diplomats, people speaking about Islamic extremism, I'm critical of both but I don't want to see anyone lose their right to speech and expression just because someone disagrees with them, I want to hear what they have to say.

[@deschutesmaple4520]

Actually the First Amendment does not guarantee free speech to say whatever you want. SCOTUS Justice Frank Murphy in 1942 said "There are certain well-defined and limited classes of speech, the prevention and punishment of which have never been thought to raise a Constitutional problem. These include the lewd and obscene, the profane, the libelous and the insulting or 'fighting' words - those which by their very utterances inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace." Like I said, I'm all for the 1st Amendment and as much free speech as possible, but not if some fascist asswipe starts demanding 'all Muslims/Jews/Hispanics/etc should be rounded up and deported/jailed/etc.

[@asweeney101]

This Historian argues that Facism (not National Socialism) grew out of Socialism kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZmfZe4xvo7GAjrc can't imagine Trump nationalizing any industries.

[@TheUnseenRapper]

No, he'd just privatize every thing.

[@asweeney101]

@@TheUnseenRapperyup I think capitalist would be more appropriate than fascist

[@TheUnseenRapper]

@@asweeney101 Corporate Capitalism.

[@TheUnseenRapper]

@@asweeney101 Sometimes called Corporatism.

[@jarrodyuki7081]

hitler was infj 6w7 noam is infj 9w1..................

[@rickstevens1167]

My question is: why defend the Neoliberal traitors, Chompsky?

[@anonone804]

Political Islamic fascism grows unchecked through western fear of sounding racist or not politically correct.

[@kentallard8852]

You don't actually know what fascism is do you?

[@anonone804]

+KentAllard From the book, Islamic Fascism... "Islamic extremism highlights the striking parallels between contemporary Islamism and the 20th-century fascism embodied by Hitler and Mussolini. Like those infamous ideologies, Islamism today touts imperialist dreams of world domination, belief in its inherent superiority, contempt for the rest of humanity, and often a murderous agenda. The author, born and raised in Egypt and now living in Germany, not only explains the historical connections between early 20th-century fascist movements in Europe and extremist factions in Islam, but he also traces the fascist tendencies in mainstream Islam that have existed throughout its history"

[@americaisacontinent.]

We need Fascism in Canada..

[@nellsun2521]

So Chomsky supports the mainstream media? What an absolute joke. Can't believe I once listened to this old establishment stooge.

[@bboucharde]

Amy, If and when full-bore fascism comes to the USA, it will be wrapped in the Stars and Stripes, in a Green Postmodernist package.

[@gordypatsgordypats5380]

bboucharde lt has just arrived mate.

[@bboucharde]

Fascism indeed walks hand-in-hand with 24-hour ubiquitous digital surveillance and our escalating loss of privacy. And, both far-Left and far-Right bureaucrats justify it......

[@CarlyonProduction]

bboucharde no, it's actually the centre that legitimises it. What Tariq Ali calls 'the extreme centre' there is lots of work you can see on this. There really aren't any far left bureaucrats (at least not in any real numbers) The trump administration just gave all of your privacy away. They have just allowed internet providers to sell literally everything you do on the internet - all of your most intimate activities - to any company that wants to buy it. This is way worse than even the government collecting info (in my opinion).

[@CarlyonProduction]

bboucharde green? Please explain. If you are going to say silly things you at least need an argument. The people on the green end of the spectrum are mainly concerned with - 1. Environment 2. An economy that works for the majority of people (as opposed to trump admin who have already done so much to redistribute wealth to the top 0.001% 3. Ensuring everyone gets healthcare 4. Ensuring everyone gets a decent and free education. 5. Equal rights and civil liberties Is that the recipe for fascism you see? Cheers.

[@bboucharde]

David, Thanks for your thoughts. I will respond when workload allows. I have to work for a living, unlike many other folks.........

[@DrCruel]

It would be hard to bring Left fascism to power in the US, but Noam Chomsky does what he can.

[@Smerpyderp]

Wtf is “left fascism?” The left tends to be anti-hierarchy and Anationalist, whereas the right is pro-hierarchy and tends to be nationalist. Anarchists are not fascists my dude.

[@DrCruel]

@@Smerpyderp The Left fascists use their socialist religion to justify robbery and murder. Their standard government form is a hereditary aristocracy formed along the lines of criminal mobster families. Every socialist regime to date, to include the National Socialists, has been nationalist. As for the anarchists, see "The Anarcho-Statists of Spain" by Bryan Caplan. And yes, you can safely assume I am not an "ally."

[@IamBrixTM]

Fascism is necessarily right wing. Educate yourself please

[@koriharpoon3357]

Now this hobo wants fascism. So yes it could happen...by him.

[@BioChemistryWizard]

Yeah leave abstract philosophers out of politics. This guy is an unironic ancom. He clearly hasnt given any real thought to politics.

[@johnnonamegibbon3580]

I don't get all this talk of Fascism. It certainly wasn't the biggest threat to the world, that would be communism. Or authoritarianism.

[@mck1972]

Two points: 1. We need to see the actual article Chomsky wrote in 1939, to see exactly what it says, and 2. We need to remember that for all of Chomsky's intelligencia, and his criticisms, which all have the great benefit of exploiting 20/20 Hindsight, he is in reality still just a Linguistics Professor, with ZERO Real Word Experience in Government, Foreign Policy, National Security, Military, or anything else outside of Linguistics.

[@bohnstube]

Chomsky's the *archetype* of the modern day fascist.

[@HINRG14]

bohnstube Explain?

[@hrishitelcontar]

says the guy who clearly has no clue what fascism means

[@CarlyonProduction]

bohnstube please enlighten us. You can't just say that without at least explaining what you mean....surely? Not being sarcastic, just genuinely interested in what you mean by that. Cheers!

[@bohnstube]

The guy agrees with and cheer leads the violence and strong arm tactics of the latest incarnation of today's modern extremist leftist thugs.

[@bohnstube]

...says the guy won't admit that today's black-clad and masked violent extreme leftist thugs are nothing but modern-day fascists.