DENYING BYU Shock Therapy | The TRUTH & Dallin H. Oaks

[@DancingQueenie]

One of the many reasons I’m enjoying this is because they expect “doubters” to go back to a 1970 magazine article to learn about the multiple versions of the first vision - and Nemo is going back decades to learn about Oaks’ multiple versions of what’s true.

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

Cheers, that’s a tasty bit of irony right there!

[@skyjust828]

🤣😂🤣🤣

[@niniane721]

Thank you for this excellent presentation. When Dallin H Oaks said "It’s wrong to criticize leaders of the Church, even if the criticism is true", this is an example of the way the church keeps its members close and not questioning what the leaders say and do. Their behaviours are manipulative and cultivate Stockholm Type Syndrome behaviour to keep their members close and keep the members tithing flowing in. Any church that cultivates this kind of behaviour is not of Christ but being led by the whims of men.

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

My pleasure! It is absolutely a manipulative relationship, if you’re being told it is wrong to criticise someone, even if you have valid concerns!

[@poppyshock]

Yes, this statement about true criticism, and the one from Packer about useful truth (I can't remember his exact words) are disgusting. Oh add Oaks' statement about the Church never apologizing, as well. No righteous enterprise can be built on a foundation of lies. And no organization that changes course, sometimes radically, without ever admitting error is worthy of support.

[@81bajaj]

Also, I love that you obviously do so much research and work for these videos--they are so direct; there is no self-promotion, you simply present the evidence. I don't blame the other channels for self-promotion; doing all of this requires a lot of time and work and compensation is well deserved and I support them, but the fact that you don't do any of this elevates your content to a very high standard.

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

This channel isn’t really about me 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@81bajaj]

@@NEMOTHEMORMON Thanks for your reply! Didn't expect that. I would love to correspond with you via email if you don't mind and/or have the time. But totally get if you don't. I know running a channel takes a lot of time. I am a professor at a major US university and actually owe my career to my Mormon mission. I left the church in the late 99 as I was finishing my PhD. It took me that long to gain the necessary critical thinking skills. All of this to say I am still dealing with leaving the church all of these years later. Your channel and others such as Mr. Atheist are helping me through it. I am (was) a several generation Mormon and still interact with many family members. I appreciate you taking the time to do this research, dig through this and publish these videos.

[@wardified8566]

Always look forward to your Sunday lessons

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

Thank you, I’m also very excited for this one!

[@hbendzulla8213]

I love your research Nemo. You are doing the world a favor. Thank you

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

You’re very welcome!

[@johneasler9967]

Keep up the great work, son! Keep us informed when the church tries to shut you down for pointing out the truth! Stay strong!

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

Will do, cheers!

[@matthewrennermusic9652]

Yes thank Nemo I was Active for Ten years a convert at 16 then I read The Mormon Murders while living in Utah and oddly started hearing of the Salamander letter while in High School I knew then even the highest General Authorities had no real discernment as the LDS loves to boast. M. G.

[@pattykake7195]

Dallin Hoax….front runner for the “ Apostolic Gaslighter of the Decade Award “ 🕯 Thanks for everything you do Nemo, and keep up the great work….👌🏽

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

11 more men to look over yet!

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

My pleasure, thanks for watching!

[@pattykake7195]

@@NEMOTHEMORMON Should be fascinating….😂🤥😂

[@Hala-ataa]

“This is a lie so demonstrably false and brazen, I’m SHOCKED that he went for it.” Nice 😎

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

Cheers!

[@susanbergman9765]

Excellent program. Good solid reporting. It is especially important to point out not only the general deception but also lies dealing with electroshock therapy. Thank you.

[@nintendofan1750]

Thank you for so thoroughly doing your research. There is absolutely no disputing what you bring to the table.

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

I appreciate that!

[@jimhalpert3428]

So let me get this straight... he actually admitted to not being truthful... like said "that was not truthful"... WOW! THANK YOU NEMO!!!!

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

You’re very welcome!

[@rydiddy3936]

I think Dallin H. Oaks may be giving the devil some competition for the title of “the Father of Lies” 😈

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

It’s the main reason Peter Bleakley called them Satanists!

[@CaptCrashIdaho]

After your excommunication they will just say, "He's not member!" and you'll just be branded another "angry non-member"...

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

No plans to be excommunicated as of yet!

[@henk_101]

Thanks again for your videos and your work with them. It's sad that they still are lying and not trying to change this behavior. And by the way, I like your outro of your vids. It's pretty cool.

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

Thanks! I saddens me too, honesty is such a basic thing and isn’t that hard to achieve, particularly if you’re willing to apologise for problems.

[@micmac_billyjack]

His statement "you should never criticize a leader, even if it's true," is very self serving. Yet they will throw the book at a truth teller/whistle blower and excommunicate him or her. This church is so different from it's faith cousin "Community of Christ" which I feel is a better place for believers of Christianity.

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

They will throw the book at people like me because of statements like that!

[@micmac_billyjack]

@@NEMOTHEMORMON yes it seems they follow that philosophy. I try to see a big picture. They have set themselves up as the one and only true church and as leaders of this church they have a facade to maintain. Is this about pulling the wool over members eyes or do they really believe they are prophets of God ?

[@cc-mk2hp]

@@NEMOTHEMORMON Thank you Nemo, for speaking the truth. Whatever they do, Jesus won't throw the book at you for speaking truth! You are helping people who have been manipulated and blinded by these wolves! That is a GOOD thing.❤🕊🙏

[@cc-mk2hp]

@@micmac_billyjack They know its not true.😒

[@Sewbasic1]

I really don't like the statement that Elder Ballard said at 1:15: "We don't study; we don't go back and search what has been said." WHAT?! How can we even trust them to be good historians of their own Faith? Oh that's right, we can't! Great job, Nemo!

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

Haha, cheers! I think what he was doing was using a collective we, including the audience, to blame the audience for not going back and studying, otherwise they would’ve known about that one article in 1970.

[@Sewbasic1]

@Nemo the Mormon lol! Yeah, I agree, but it's interesting how my interpretation works too 😉

[@cc-mk2hp]

Ballard, lied again right there. Smh.

[@81bajaj]

Thank you for your videos!

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

Glad you like them!

[@scottbrandon6244]

First vision versions at 1:10. The church only recently has admitted openly there are multiple versions of the first vision. I counted five versions on the church website two weeks ago. They forgot the other three.

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

Good point!

[@qualitymachine220]

And ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

Indeed!

[@bdshafer]

Blessings Nemo.

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

Thank you!

[@jordanalexander8099]

Looking forward to this Nemo!

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

Me too!

[@Gusto08]

The look on Dallin Oak's face at 10:34 is pure hilarity. He looks disgusted and slightly frightened at the audacity the questioner had to pose that question.

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

He certainly doesn't look comfortable! They don't tend to when faced with questions that aren't softball! Look at Elder Holland with John Sweeney!

[@Gusto08]

@@NEMOTHEMORMON I've seen that one with Jeffrey Holland! He was pretty shifty when getting called out.

[@MegaJohn144]

This is some detective work. I don't know where you find all of this. I don't have the time to do it, but I'm glad you do. By the time Oaks gets ready for the next step in his "career", his credibility will be so shot, he will be ineffective as a church president.

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

Thanks, I'm fascinated to see how him becoming president of the church plays out with the members I know!

[@Sam-tu4hp]

Unfortunately, I think the majority will continue to blindly accept and follow. These clear evidences of his deceptions won’t sway most people because they are so indoctrinated. But! Hopefully it will inspire some to re-evaluate their beliefs and consider speaking up for positive change

[@honder1866]

Awesome!

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

Thank you kindly!

[@emilymiller4195]

Thanks!

[@redcurrantart]

I’m guessing the caveat here is that liars go to Hell, unless they have the second anointing… then it’s no holds barred.

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

I recently asked a 70 whether it was the second anointing that meant they could lie, he had no answer other than bro say they probably don’t think they’re lying.

[@townsendv58]

Thanks Nemo

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

You’re very welcome!

[@miguelthealpaca8971]

Just add an "oh my!" at the end. So it's "The Expositor, shock therapy and grizzly bears, oh my!"

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

Can’t help but read that in the voice of George Takai !

[@miguelthealpaca8971]

@@NEMOTHEMORMON same!

[@maspencer]

Great sleuthing. Way to dig up some truth bombs.!

[@ritamariekelley4077]

What a sadistic practice, leaving their victims with severe emotional, psychological and physical trauma. 💖💖 To all of you who suffered this trauma.

[@leahshaw1447]

Lying is a required ability to be a successful lawyer. (Just as the ability to make people believe you are someone else is required to be a successful actor.) Manipulation of speech and the written word is another required ability to be a successful lawyer. The higher the calling or position in the church, the more these guys believe they are untouchable. For him to deny that such a thing happened, just shows the obvious. Thanks Nemo for another great video.

[@kenny-gee]

Court of love coming up for memo

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

According to an area 70, apparently not!

[@Sam-tu4hp]

@@NEMOTHEMORMON that’s great news! All you’re doing is sharing the truth of what goes on. Love and respect to you, Nemo

[@leem3299]

Top of you game here

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

Cheers, feels good to be fact checking again, it’s been a minute!

[@dougcorbett4933]

The church just a few years ago because of internet access to the discrepancies of the various accounts of the First Vision even made a “new” video of the First Vision incorporating the different versions. It backfired and they buried it. Raised more questions than it answered. My question is if these are prophets and seers and God reveals truths to them it all fell flat on its face when these other versions surfaced in the 60’s and they had to race to respond to what the church had evolved to use as its centerpiece for missionary work starting in the 1930’s. Yes, first vision never use for proselytizing until then. In fact, how many at the founding of the church knew this story? NONE!!

[@michaellines2063]

1835 to 1970 was a long time to be hiding the first vision account in Joseph's own hand, and they would still be hiding it if not for the Tanners. 135 years was a long time.

[@jacobopstad5483]

They seem to have a very different idea of what "truth" is, if you ask me. Elder Ballard's response about integrity sounds so much like what a narcissistic abuser would say, using manipulative emotional responses to answer factual problems.

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

Emotion to answer fact, hit the nail on the head there!

[@mearmstrong-bach5321]

BYU was touting this aversion treatment for desperate gay men in the 70's as a choice to not be gay anymore. The Church really thought being gay was a learned behavior, therefore, being gay could be unlearned. Enter aversion therapy and behavior modification. I saw the effects of this treatment and fifty years later, I still find the "Gay Aversion Therapy" barbaric. I had a friend who underwent this therapy during the very time Oakes was the President at BYU. My friend was messed up after the shock therapy and even tried to pray the gay away. He wept as he told me the therapy had not worked...He was still gay. He was frustrated and sad that he couldn't be happy as a straight or gay man after completing the aversion therapy. As a result he didn't have a happy life. When I asked him why he tried the therapy he said, "I love my religion, but I can't be gay and still be Mormon." What a horrific choice.

[@robertb6889]

“The lies of public officials, like the lies of religious leaders, are also extremely damaging in the way they degrade the moral ton of the entire community. Officials’ lies and clergymen’s lies are especially damaging to impressionable young people.” Dallin H Oaks. September 1993. BYU Fireside.

[@hlnbee]

Prevaricators are common in the church.

[@DancingQueenie]

The pomposity is appalling.

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

It sure is!

[@kathymunsee6468]

People l know, hadnt been to church over 2 years,told the bishop they had been going to another ward. And got their Temple recomend.

[@matthewharris949]

It only matters about the 1832 one since JS stated that he only saw Jesus, and that Jesus forgave him of his sins. It was when the Church became Anti-Trinitarian that the Vision had to take on a more grandiose approach with two Heavenly Beings: The Father and the Son, where Jesus tells JS to join no Church since the Church was taken away. This is a big disparity.

[@epa.g.3090]

I love your work/research Mate. You are doing the world a big favor. but I believe that there should be someone at those interviews present and contesting all these accounts and not do videos afterward where you can not prove to viewers (Mormons viewers) that they are lying or twisting the facts and exposing them on the spot. I would be happier if that would have happened. Nevertheless well done, great job.

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

I would love to see that also, happy my channel can be a consolation prize though! Better to call them out after the fact than never I suppose!

[@othersheep5491]

Monsters!

[@hobgoblin1976]

In his revealed sophistry, Captain Dallin is not a liar, because his definition of lying is sui generis and proprietary. But was he lying when he defined it?

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

Good question. I suppose when you are the one who speaks for god, you make the rules?

[@vegadog3053]

One word "emeritus"

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

That’s what we need more of for sure!

[@DancingQueenie]

Paul H Dunn was give emeritus status, Oh but wait. That was for consideration of his age and health. Had nothing to do with decades of self aggrandizing bald faced lies.

[@vegadog3053]

@@NEMOTHEMORMON they did it to Eldred Smith who was a prophet, seer, and revelator by birthright. Why not do it for apostles?

[@michaeltaylors2456]

Dallin likes to intimidate and maintain superiority with unflinching direct eye contact. My first hand experience. I used to revere him.

[@keljar2007]

If truth were truly a priority, then correlated materials would be more comprehensive and accurate. The fact is no such priority for accuracy and completeness exists.

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

That’s a good point!

[@v2snider1]

Sunday school with nemo is fun

[@rychei5393]

I dare say it isn't legal to destroy the libelous papers either... which were in fact NOT libelous, but I digress.

[@baegulimm]

Steve Benson account link is broken, could you reupload? Thanks.

[@thesc0tsm4n9]

frankly if the church was based on truths you wouldn't have to go back and study things that were said as it'd have been based on evidence rather than heresay. the fact the churches opinions changed so drastically all the time and they have to try and dismiss their own past is a massive redflag.

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

That's an intriguing point, or at least certainly if you did have to go back and study, it would at least be honest.

[@chijiokeuchennahenry3890]

Kindly tell me any of the prophets or apostles of God both of old and new testament who has no fault(s) or has not defaulted?

[@chlyri]

When they claim to be the leaders of the one true church that can't be criticized even when they're wrong, they get less wiggle room.

[@lcheeky598]

I'd give him 4 Pinnochio's.

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

Out of?

[@lcheeky598]

@@NEMOTHEMORMON 4

[@terrillmel]

Look at Dallin's shit-eating grin! @1:56

[@3rdleg151]

I dare you to go on the midnight Mormon podcast via zoom or however you want

[@skyjust828]

I just (3 months ago) heard of this "Navou press" 1 paper only mess & don't really understand it but isn't 1st amendment rights say no matter what they acted illegally?

[@chlyri]

To be completely straight, I think what they did to the paper was cowardly and pathetic, but 1A only applies to the government. There can still be backlash on a civil level. I say this for consistency, because bigots and awful people cry 1A violations when private platforms shut them down, and I'm all for it when that happens.

[@anamariamorton726]

They hide the 9 first visions!

[@terrillmel]

I see you rough stone rolling

[@monicacall7532]

If they’ve been honest about the 4 versions of the First Vision then why didn’t we ever learn about them in church classes, seminary, Institutes of Religion, and BYU religion classes? Re: the torturing of gay students in the name of “reparative therapy” at BYU in the 70’s I was there at the end of the 70’s and had friends who were tortured. Oaks lies when he denies that it ever happened. Shame on him!

[@marquitaarmstrong399]

Okay?????

[@bonegrubber]

Are you trying to tell me that I could've signed up for a class at BYU where they show me porn???!!! Why didn't I see that in the course catalog??!!

[@stevenbolin7688]

Yeah it's his turn next , he's just waiting for Nelson to go

[@tori.rory.]

Why did that clip of Hoax at the end make me just die of laughter. It’s so disgusting but something about the absolute brazenness of this man is just…beyond absurdity.

[@Verze4826]

Listen most religions were racist before the civil rights movement But the issue is apologizing which is impossible for them to do

[@Will-hb4fs]

all the homies hate Oaks

[@giselleescobedo6109]

bRavoooo

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

Thank you! *bows*

[@rstevenhanson]

His creepy smile at the end while saying that asinine bit about criticizing church leaders is beyond cringe.

[@CatskillsGrrl]

Oaks was President of BYU when I was there and I didn’t like him then. He only got worse.

[@marquitaarmstrong399]

You know you have just got to give it up. Smoke and mirrors

[@marquitaarmstrong399]

Oaks is a liar. Period full stop

[@joetaylor8687]

So are we to conclude that Dallin H. Hoax is, was, and always will be completely candid and forthcoming as a duly chosen prophet, seer, and revelator? Maybe not, huh?

[@marquitaarmstrong399]

Of course he's lying his lips were moving

[@LibRoseITM]

This is just awful.

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

About sums it up!

[@jeffs4483]

'Da-Lyin' Hoax.

[@ritaconley9544]

So now, BH Roberts is the liar? How convenient.

[@docsmitty4]

I honestly think Oaks is gay himself.

[@titabutoauru-qm7ev]

You can't talk against dallin OKs his ex judge and lawyer how about you you play on the podcast and those run away from the church follow you shame on you

[@titabutoauru-qm7ev]

😂no lie at all means it's lie to you and your followers carry on but regret latter

[@42N8_1]

If you invested the same amount of time trying to sincerely find truth in the scriptures versus trying to find fault you would have a strong testimony of the truth and the Church of Jesus Christ.

[@daleproctor3723]

Sometimes, people who care about what's true or not, sincerely study scripture and determine there are grounds to be skeptical about claims that it's true. Others bury their heads in the sand to avoid these grounds by 2nd guessing the motivation of others.

[@rogerbrunt5918]

There’s no truth from the foundation of lies.

[@jeffwilson4693]

Speaking of truth, why do you call yourself a Mormon? When you leave the gate lying, you finish as a liar. Unless of course you own up to it, and cease.

[@NEMOTHEMORMON]

I call myself a Mormon because I am one

[@jeffwilson4693]

@@NEMOTHEMORMON No you aren't. You lie again. You are anti Mormon. You post video after video accusing the leadership of the Church as liars.

[@chlyri]

Because every prophet before Nelson embraced the term. There was a huge campaign built on it which was actually making the church look better. Nelson's pet peeve here that he tried to implement before he was in the driver's seat just makes you all look more stuffy and pretentious.

[@jeffwilson4693]

@@chlyri This nemo character is a whack job. He isn't a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. All he does is criticize the leadership....all the time. “And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.” John 12:10 Wise up.

[@chlyri]

@@jeffwilson4693 I was a Mormon, and I'm still on the books. I served a mission during Monson's I'm a Mormon campaign was at its height with the first Meet the Mormons movie. Even disregarding what Nemo says, I can say that Nelson and anyone who agrees with him about the term Mormon are massive jokes. Everything I said is factual about how past prophets felt about it, and Nelson was just chomping at the bit to be the one to make that superficial change.