Star Fox 64 VS Star Fox Zero - An Endless Time Loop ~ Design Doc

Star Fox is caught in a time loop, remaking the same game over and over again. Let's talk about how Star Fox 64 compares with the series' most recent iteration - Star Fox Zero.
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[@integ3r]

As Miyamoto revealed in interviews, the original idea for SF0 was to make it feel like an episodic cartoon series, very compact, simple and accessible so everyone could finish it. However play testers revealed that they wanted a traditional SF64 experience. As in, they really wanted the branching paths back, so nintendo basically threw them in last second. The layout of SF0 really makes sense if you understand it as everything being linearly made, then they split up all the content they had at the last second, made a few bare bones branching missions and said "good enough." It was an afterthought, not integral to the design.

[@ressljs]

"An episodic cartoon series, very compact, simple..." That sounds extremely generic and uninspired! It also seems to run counter to the majority of their game design. I wonder why they thought people would want that?

[@FF18Cloud]

hearing stuff like this sorta makes me feel bad for Hideki Kamiya's team at the time when they were making Zero... No wonder when Microsoft canned ScaleBound, a lot of the team had to take sabaticals just to mend their mental states after that disaster of communication with the Microsoft Studios team...

[@Christopher-md7tf]

It makes it more understandable, but it's still a bad decision.

[@orangeslash1667]

@@ressljs Miyamoto said that (Thunderbirds) was the biggest inspiration for Starfox in general.

[@orangeslash1667]

@@Christopher-md7tf The problem is that Miyamoto runout of ideas for the series, so he's fine with making weird ideas in a desperate attempt to justify a new entry. Now a days Miyamoto wants to move on.

[@Camkitsune]

The biggest problem with Star Fox is that Nintendo has no idea where to _go_ with it in order to iterate. Adveture didn't work because it was Rare's attempt at The Legend of Zelda, but with Star Fox inelegantly plastered on top. Assault's big problem was that its ground combat was seemingly built based off of the multiplayer from 64; the high movement speed makes a lot of sense when you're potentially trying to dodge fire from a starship, but not when you're engaged against other targets on the ground. Command suffers from being a horrible stop-go experience where none of the encounters ever last long enough to satisfy, as well as an illustration of an inability to write Fox or Krystal in a way that isn't head-desk-inducingly stupid. Zero, from what I've seen, appears to have more successfully integrated the mid-level mechanical change-ups Assault attempted, but is severely hampered by the controls. I'd also argue that after the train-wreck that was the plot of Star Fox Command, Zero _had_ to be a reboot, but I could write an entire dissertation on how Command is the final amalgamation of all of the design and story problems Star Fox has suffered over the years, so I'll pass on writing that one unless somebody actually wants to read it. The short version: even when Andross isn't the antagonist, the best they can seem to come up with is another megalomaniacal exterrnal invader to take his place, because Fox doesn't have enough of a personality to lend himself to an interesting foil.

[@GraveKenshin1991]

I can agree with all those of those issues though I will admit I still enjoy Adventure and Assault and loved how they built on the world. I honestly consider Command to be Star Fox Fanfiction with how the stories go. I would say Zero did not have to be a reboot as they could of just gone off of the Command ending were we see the next generation of Star Fox or just act like Command never happened either would work in my opinion. Can't argue with that one at all. Kinda sad when Mario, who has the personality of a cardboard box outside the RPGs, still has a little more then Fox to work with.

[@Camkitsune]

Grave Kenshin I'm more obligated to hate Adventure on principle - it wasn't a bad game overall, though it had a lot of really bad sections to it. The thing is, it was going to be its own thing, but then got rebranded as a Star Fox game. This could have worked, too, if it weren't done so ham-fistedly. It shows a lack of respect for the IP. I still had a decent time of it (when I wasn't getting infuriated by that one test in the raptor village). Assault was a great game; it was just too short. Moving onto the 'next generation' would have just meant Fox's son fighting Andross's grandson in exactly the same sort of conflict as was in the original Star Fox. Why bother with a soft reboot that removes all of the recognizable characters and replaces them with Deviant Art OC redesigns? To be fair, Mario has had a lot more time to develop one; because of the nature of the types of game Mario and Bowser both appear in, the whimsical nature of their games becomes a part of them by proxy. Fox MeCloud can't do this because he's written as a detached, wise-cracking everyman, and yet one of the first things you see in Star Fox 64 is a city in the process of being leveled as part of a civil war.

[@GraveKenshin1991]

Strength Test in Lightfoot Village right? Agreed great game, but way too short. I can understand that I just feel like it could have built on the world more as seeing how things have changed on different planets after all those years. Also Falco taking the old mentor role would be interesting along with seeing what personalities they could have come up with for kids. That is just an idea though if they even considered trying to continue the "story" after Command, but again they could have also just added like Command never happened. That is true though I just feel like it is as one dimensional as usual up til Odyssey put a little more in them outside the RPGs.

[@manidavis4126]

I like assault

[@venumbra1177]

Funny enough I think Adventures was the best iteration of Fox in terms of personality. Cocky, wants to get the job done quick, and adventurous

[@laynelaynelaynelaynelayne]

FINALLY, someone understands. Sure, Zero's controls were annoying, but the worst part was level design.

[@DesignDoc]

Seriously, like what is even the point of the Landmaster when the Walker exists. Even then, the only reason to even use the walker over the Arwing is in small spaces which are so few and far between. Maybe only 4-6 points in the game where you'd even need to do that and most of those are over in less than a minute.

[@orangeslash1667]

@@DesignDoc At least the game has co-op mode.

[@VestedUTuber]

@@DesignDoc I mean, the Landmaster plays significantly different than the walker. Walker levels are more or less all all-range and the walker has more utility mechanics at the expense of being lightly armed, whereas the Landmaster levels are all on-rails and the Landmaster only has limited flight capability, making a degree of platforming necessary. If anything, the _Arwing_ does more to make the Landmaster redundant.

[@fatjesus1584]

Sounds like something that would be a budget issue more than error of vision. They knew what they should have done, but it was probably just too expensive/time consuming to hand-craft novel content for stuff that not everyone would see. Plus, as you said, it's not like this game was destined for success from the start. It came late to a dying console that isn't even one of Nintendo's best sellers on its best day (and its been a long while since its best day). I imagine this is probably self defeating as well. You release a game to a small market and budget it accordingly and that ultimately makes it harder to trust it with a larger budget in the future, when it might be able to exceed (such as on the Switch). All that said, it's still a strong brand and someone over there (maybe just Miyamoto) seems to keep pushing for it anyway. I hope they can realize it, though I doubt it will get another shot any time soon.

[@Ostnizdasht206]

WanderingShyGuy forcing the tablet down everyone's throats is what ruined Zero.

[@FF18Cloud]

I mean, they needed that Yoko Taro to save them from the actual depression and counseling they got from Scalebound after Microsoft fucked em up in an alleyway with a bat

[@bobbymccabe2825]

CyberRonin eve without the GamePad and Motion Controls, I think Zero would have been a fairly shallow experience when compared to its predecessors.

[@eduardorpg64]

"It´s still a strong brand". Ehhhhh...Star Fox 64 came 11 years ago, and any SF game after it was meh or just decent.

[@fatjesus1584]

Eduardo Luis Salinas Rivas Honestly, I would say the name still has recognition not because of a Star Fox game, but because of Fox being in Smash.

[@Funnysas12]

This is a super underrated channel. Tons of great editing, very incisive, a visible amount of effort put in. Please keep up the amazing work!

[@gamedesignwithmichael]

I agree. It's a great channel. Hope it keeps growing.

[@DesignDoc]

Thank you both for the kind words! You have no idea how much it means to us to just hear that! We don't plan on stopping anytime soon!

[@Funnysas12]

Design Doc no worries! It's always nice to see content creators who put a lot of thought, and heart into their work. Huge respect!

[@GibusWearingMann]

"The attention to detail is m ssi g", heh

[@gamedesignwithmichael]

I thought that was great too.

[@hackerman203]

*"attention to detail"*

[@TheDuckClock]

I remember hearing in an interview a with Miyamoto and Bill Trenton a few months before Zero launched that the game went through a massive overhaul after hearing fan feedback. Apparently the original design of the game was to be a linear campaign from start to finish but test audiences were hoping for branching paths. Which is practically an admission into saying the alternate path missions were a last minute addition, and as your video pointed out it shows. I can't remember which publication the interview was with, I know it was with a website publication and not with a KZbin personality, but I think we all look around we could probably find it.

[@JEST7STARS]

This also brings to mind what I think HeavyEyed said about how Star Fox is used as a dumping ground for unfinished tech gimmicks and everything else is re-hashed. Like you said, it's stuck in limbo.

[@DesignDoc]

The series lacks a head developer/director. There is not a single person that you can point at and go "Yes, that's the Star Fox guy." Every game has had a substantially different team and because of that, they haven't really learned from past mistakes or properly reiterate on past ideas.

[@JEST7STARS]

I think Nintendo also has a problematic lack of trust in Star Fox to become a financially successful franchise. I was actually surprised to find out Zero was yet another 64 reboot. I figure if there had been more new stages it would've stood on its own. You're right that the non-commitment to a proper team and a unique, polished Star Fox sequel is the biggest barrier for the series.

[@orangeslash1667]

@@JEST7STARS Miyamoto says that he has no interest in making a new Starfox unless he can come up with a new game play idea for it.

[@DarkMProductions]

You know what would be cool for Star Fox? If they took a page from the Mario games. What I mean is, have the Lylat system be only one part of the game, and once you complete that, you move on to the next universe, where the story continues. Keep the branching paths, and add multiple endings, making each playthrough its own experience. Very ambitious I know, but I think it would be the necessary development this series desperately needs.

[@Dracomut]

They did something similar to that in Command and it didn't work well

[@magnaknight9252]

Why not Star Fox could be a little bit like Sonic the hedgehog of expanding their franchise of more new characters, new worlds to explore, improving their characters designs, personality, give them their own origins, as well as giving them character development as the story goes on, and rewrite the story like in Star Fox Adventures. I wouldn't make Krystal be a damsel in distress when she was trapped in a magic crystal until Fox saves her at the end of the game, I was thinking to make her the main character in the story when she meets Fox for the first time, but she didn't like him at first because he was a stranger on her second home planet and tried to kill him because of misunderstanding, then they work things out, and decided to work together to accomplish their goals while also getting to know each other more. Star Fox is basically a mash-up of every known Sci-Fi films and shows that's ever been made, why can Nintendo expand on their world?

[@kurokamina8429]

@@Dracomut Multiple endings? Yes. But having multiple maps to play? No they haven't and would definitely help with the run time problem people seem way to focused on.

[@gamedesignwithmichael]

I haven't played much Star Fox, but I do find it interesting that you feel what makes or breaks a game in this series is how well put together and thought out the branching paths are. Interesting that the narrative structure is so key to the core experience.

[@dvoremay6683]

Game Design by Gigity McD its because 64. The last really good starfox tied narrative and gameplay together so well. Its like how tom Clancy games were before this push for online only games. Hell even starfox assault was somewhat good for what it was and it ironically was the other game that held strong with it narrative

[@integ3r]

It's so heavily married to the gameplay, the difficulty level is based on your skill level which influences the path you're set on which determines the story. It keeps you on your toes a bit when playing because your performance has consequences. If you don't pay attention, you'll miss the secret objective of the level and that changes your path. Very compelling stuff. The first time you play, you're not gonna be an expert, so the game puts you on a simpler path. When you replay it, you're more skilled, you do more fancy stuff and suddenly the game is completely different. It's kinda constantly judging you, but not telling you about it, so you're not really aware of it until the first time you find a branching path.

[@davidsterling7570]

Super agree with the whole video, glad to see others identify structural problems over focusing on imperfect controls. Side note; LOVE the Star Fox Assault soundtrack. Hope they go with that direction again musically.

[@TheRealFolkBlues]

I've been waiting all this time for someone to make a video about WHY Star Fox Zero fails to capture the qualities of SF64. People can never look past the control scheme and see that the inherent structure of the game is flawed; even if you fixed the controls, you would still be left with a half-baked experience.

[@Zangelin]

Yeah but the controls are still a bigger problem. I tried really hard but I could not finish this game due its god awful controls. Even if it would have been a lesser Starfox 64 it woulda been better than straight up unplayable. I have not played a game with controls as bad as Starfox Zero's since the NES days.

[@orangeslash1667]

@@Zangelin Are you aware of the minus button that lets you swap the cock pit view to the TV screen????

[@BHox01]

Damn, this was a really thorough video despite not being terribly long. You didnt pull any punches but you can tell it's because you care about the series. Hopefully Zero isn't the end of the traditional Star Fox formula and they can improve on it next time.

[@Jakoshark220]

Really love the commentary here. I'm a gigantic fan of 64 (probably my favorite game ever), and zero let me down hard and I feel terrible about it. Untouched in the video here but it needs saying - Starfox is at it's best when on-rails or highly structured in level design. The least enjoyable levels in 64 were the all-rangers: fortuna, sector Z, and Katina (bolse was structured a bit more fluidly), and the reasoning for this is pacing and content. All of these stages feature Fox and his wingmates showing up for two phases; phase one features flying around the all-range area and shooting enemies for a minute or so without a clear objective or goal, and a phase 2 where the actual objective starts. The pacing is thrown off by the repetitive banter from your wingmates about ships on their tail or ones they shoot down, and the mission could be over very quickly, should you complete the objective (immediately destroy the vents on the mothership -> core, shooting down starwolf with twin/hyper lasers). Sector Z, on the other hand, is the worst out of the bunch with the missiles: big health-sponges that are only threatening if you don't hold brake while firing on them or if one of your wingmates decide to steal the medal from you. Star fox 64 was originally marketed with it's movie-like structure and pacing - just look at the Lylat Wars advertising poster that imitates star wars - and as such, having things be on-rails gives the best amount of control for the developers to craft an interesting level both mechanically and cinematically.

[@buttnuts2492]

The game catered to the hardware rather than the hardware cater to the game

[@MegaFinalRound]

💯

[@sanfransiscon]

I like the idea of using a player's successes or failures to change how the story develops. It would be a nightmare to write and program for something like a long, story-driven RPG. But it could be great.

[@yoruhana190]

Nightmare? You mean fun, right?

[@sanfransiscon]

I'm imagining a 20 or so hour JRPG (fairly short so it doesn't discourage replaying to get different results) where every major story beat has at least two or three different outcomes, with the least amount of diamond shape structures like those in Telltale games. That sounds like a huge undertaking! What I'm saying is I want a sequel or spiritual successor to Radiant Historia.

[@xvxThexShadowxvx]

Kinda reminds me of Detroit Become Human. Every decision is critical on who lives and who dies in the end. That would be an interesting concept. Do something wrong or not quick enough and you lose a teammate in the process, like dead, done and not going to the Great Fox to be repaired for the next mission. Keeping them alive creates different paths and what not. Maybe makes the game harder or easier depending on what you do. *Are you listening Nintendo lol*

[@sanfransiscon]

Star Emblem? Or... Fire Fox? I don't know if I'd include permadeath in my RPG idea. Even a playthrough with lots of mistakes should probably still be possible, and only having one party member might make it impossible to beat. Hmm... now that I think about it, one of my game story ideas could easily work with all this since it's just one character and a big theme is the inevitability of time.

[@xvxThexShadowxvx]

I guess that would be a little rough for a Star Fox game lol besides I kick myself if I'd lost Falco

[@RoseSupreme]

Good video. I'm hoping the next Star Fox game takes notes from you, as well as Star Fox 2, like bringing in Fay and Miyu.

[@dvoremay6683]

Rose Supreme we can dream...

[@al.komori]

Rose Supreme The series would greatly benefit from a new game that would add many new members for a bigger Star Fox team: Fox, Falco, Slippy, Krystal, Fay, Miyu, Bill, Katt, and maybe even Fara. Make them all playable, create a much more cinematic story, refine the gameplay for both arwing and on-foot mission, and add online multiplayer and we got a damn good Star Fox game. Makes you wonder where the series would be if Miyamoto would let others take control for once. :/

[@exeacua]

I hope for a lot of new player characters and starfighters like in Command, but it will be strange to see Fay and Miyu alongside Bill and Kat.

[@dvoremay6683]

Juan Luis Vargas Pareja well they all come from different backgrounds so I don't see them existing in the same games cause problems. The only odd character would be Fara. Or deciding which version of Kat.

[@franciscoperalta5779]

They along with Krystal and Panther should come back. Miyu and Fey have never really been involved much. Maybe now that Star Fox 2 is officially real, they'll consider implementing them in the team.

[@luigi290]

Great video! I found you just a few weeks ago and your design doc series has quickly become one of my favorite KZbin series. Keep it up!

[@DesignDoc]

Thank you!

[@blubonion]

I really like these videos that go deep into the design of games. I'd love to see more.

[@gamedesignwithmichael]

The video essay style works really well. Means the argument is really well layed out. I love digging down into the design of games myself.

[@Phyramar]

If the motion controls weren't forced I'd be playing Zero like I play 64. From time to time and enjoying every second of it.

[@SolidSneakers]

I'm still upset that we didn't get a genuine 4v4 with Star Wolf in the game, or how your teammates are absent from the final dogfight with them.

[@naenoart]

Great video! Really interesting and I especially liked the ending! :') I love your content so much, your channel is one of my favourite gaming related channels on youtube. ~

[@DesignDoc]

Thanks!

[@StarFighter748]

Thank you for making this video, its nice to see someone that understand the franchise as a whole, not someone that just picks low hanging fruits of the flaws in this game. Keep it up I enjoy watching your videos. The FFX and XIII video is my favorite thus far.

[@Chidsuey]

My favorite part about SF64 (and still is) is how the level designs, bosses, and music make you feel like a badass fighter pilot. I still relish the Solar mission: Constant ticking damage, fire creatures coming from all directions, and a giant lava monster from the depths of hell. It feels great to survive all that tension and watch your Arwing do a trick (presumably while Fox throws out double middle fingers) and jet off into space. Suck it monster.

[@SolinoOruki]

The thing is, StarFox Assault and especially StarFox Command were really good games. But the fans and some critics were so stuck in 64 and wanting the same game that Nintendo finally gave in and gave them StarFox Zero, a remake everyone asked for but no one actually needed.

[@MerelyAFan]

Star Fox's problems remind me of some of the issues with 3D Sonic. Sega struggled to make worlds big enough for the fast paced title character and created alternate playstyles in order to re-use assets. However, this continual use of different gameplay methods gradually diluted the pace and ability of Sonic's platforming to properly progress like Mario's did. Invention of the Boost aside, the character's gameplay doesn't feel like its truly evolving. Titles like Lost World toss out the foundation that was built in Colors/Generations in favor of gimmick du jour and Forces devolves into lesser 3D and 2D sections than the games that came before it with the Avatar being the extent of its new ideas. Nintendo's seemingly fallen into a similar rut, with very little concept of actually deepening Star Fox's gameplay beyond slapping a gimmick on it. Adventures is just SF by way of Zelda, Command's offerings of RTS/All Range Mode emphasis became monotonous, and and Zero feels far too much like 64 with worse controls. Assault is the least offensive in its attempts to try on foot missions, but even that comes at the expense of branching paths or significant expansion to the flying sections. Both series are battling stagnation, but at least with Sonic the "fast character, big worlds" requires an inventive solution to fix. Star Fox has such no brainer elements to expand upon for replaybility (branching paths, character selection, ship customization, strategy in wingman choice) that Nintendo ignores in favor of gimmicks.

[@DesignDoc]

Agreed though I would say Assault sacrificed its single player campaign for its multiplayer (every all range mission takes place in a multiplayer map with most of those focused on just destroying targets on said map)

[@MerelyAFan]

That's true. I think that game's flaws come from the same symptom as many of the other's (admittedly lessened because there's no blatant gimmick in Assault to override the core game as much): the series and its gameplay is not developed enough the point where you can do wacky experiments in the design with no issues. The critical evolution to 64 still hasn't happened, and as a result you have a lot of games adding topping to a dish that's essentially still undercooked. An emphasis on on non single player is fine at some point, but the series had only two real releases at that point (Adventures being its own diverting offshoot). That was the period to make the next major step of flight gameplay, and instead Assault delivered simple linear experience, albeit with fun multiplayer. That constant sacrifice of genuine gameplay evolution and even core design in favor of something else (multiplayer, RTS, & two screen gyro control) can be frustrating to watch, especially when various other Nintendo franchises haven't been hampered by the developer need reinvent the wheel like Star Fox has been.

[@generaljimmies3429]

Instaed of just having the main 4 pilots: Fox, Falco, Peppy and Slippy you could of added more to the roster, each with their own unique characteristics and benefits to combat. Miyo Lynx and Fay Spaniel(Star Fox 2) is just collecting dust. Fara(Star Fox SNES, Nintendo Power Comics), Bill and Katt Monroe(Star Fox 64) are just underutilized. And poor Krystal has fallen to the same fate as Renamon and became nothing but Furry Porn. Though I will admit Dr. Comet makes some pretty good content of her ;)

[@ressljs]

You're one of the first I've heard complain about the various play styles, but I whole heartedly agree. I think if they make another one, it should just be the all range mode Arwing that can transform into the walker, and that's it. Build a whole big world game around that, rather than try to throw in everything including the gyro copter kitchen sink.

[@r.a.m8821]

You gotta admit tho.. for as linear as Starox assault is, it's pretty well done.

[@DesignDoc]

Assault was a step in the right direction. They needed at least twice as many missions with way more time spent in the Arwings. Maybe with some additional paths but it was a local multiplayer game first and foremost which is likely why the campaign wasn't quite as great as it could've been.

[@magicjohnson3121]

Design Doc the only guy that gets it

[@FelipeWalker2]

This game looks SO GOOD, it's incredible.

[@Sergeantmajormario]

Also on Bolse, if you somehow don't take out Wolf quick enough on Fichina, they will appear back on Bolse, with Fox commenting saying: "Star Wolf? Here? Why now?!"

[@metalmayfantasy]

I think a new Star Fox game should have ground combat, with gameplay like Ratchet and Clank, with space missions like Star Fox 64 along with branching paths.

[@facepwnagewtf]

If another Star Fox game happens i hope Nintendo utilizes the explorable solar system concepts from games like Starlink or Mass Effect, but also utilizes the story concepts introduced in Adventures. It's possible to build upon the idea that the Star Fox team are mercenaries for hire and not just a branch of the Cornerian Military whose sole purpose is the defense of the Lylat System. Similar to story concepts from Adventures you could have them tasked to explore anomalies happening across the Lylat System, that gradually unravels the bigger story. Giving the player more freedom to tackle both game play and plot in the order they set fit, while moving away from the same basic story structure most every Star Fox game adheres to, and giving ample time to develop the characters along the journey.

[@ThePurpleCheeseMan]

I can always appreciate someone able to think about the other aspects to this game than the motion controls. There's a lot more this game brings to the conversation, and I agree the big thing that killed the excitement was the lack of interesting branching paths.

[@CalebWillden]

"It's up to Nintendo to bring back the color." Or Ubisoft, apparently. 😃

[@HaxHaunter]

lol, finally someone else gets it. idk about everybody else, but for me, Ubisoft has done one heck of a job with Starlink by integrating Star Fox into the series. the key to make the series evolve? they just found it, and its amazing.

[@porky1118]

This kind of game structure (Star Fox 64) really sounds amazing. I hope, the Story Mode of SSB Ultimate will be similar. Not only completing missions, but also character choice should influence the story and Ending.

[@daaknait]

Superb channel you got there, mate. Thanks.

[@broden4838]

If they decide to make another Star Fox game, I really hope they don't use motion controls and stick to some traditional stuff (Making a game like a mix between 64 and Assault)

[@EvyDevy]

Great video! The alternate paths in 64 were very vague sometimes and trying to get one after having something stupid happens sucked causing you to miss a mission in the campaign but did add to the replay-ability! Things like going through all the gates, getting 100 points and certain other paths could have been hinted better in my opinion and the warp portal one took me hours to get on the 3DS but it was still pretty good for a game from the 90's. Though one huge thing that made it annoying was you couldn't go back to redo a mission on a different path easily. I think maybe they just wanted it to be simpler in Zero but the creativity and unique scenarios made the paths enjoyable, even if trying to get every single one was frustrating.

[@pinesapp]

Tbh Nintendo should make like a star wolf game bc star fox is a war, not just a generic good guys vs bad guys.

[@Beegeezy144]

That was lovely. Long live StarFox. ⭐🦊

[@wishmaker]

Top three favs will always be Starfox 64.. Starfox Adventure AND assualt...since assault has the updated sleeker design from those anime Robotech series. ( plus it was nice to introduce a heroine in the series)

[@charlescaulkins8306]

I actually really enjoyed Star Fox Adventures... until I found out the premise was a stand-alone game that had Fox shoved in because he looked like one of the main characters of the alpha build of "Dinosaur Planet". It still allowed things in the series to branch out, if only they could have done more with the series. As someone that grew up with Star Fox 64, it's nice to see a video that explains this series and how nostalgia can only go so far. Thank you for sharing!

[@Blueflag04]

the other problem is that if you failed to complete certain objective in some mission , the game lets you restart instead of continuing

[@takeoutfromchina3166]

I know this video came out months ago, but theirs three installments in this series that needs to be looked into in order to improve StarFox, those three being StarFox 64, StarFox 2, and StarFox Assault. As you said: "It's up to Nintendo to bring the color back to StarFox," I can understand why people would say or think this, but I find this statement to be troublesome given the track record of the different development cycles throughout the series. Looking back, the best StarFox games are made by a team that faces adversities pretty well and still manages to bring out something of quality (Yes I know this is subjective). One, Two, 64, and arguably Assault all had, mostly, smooth development cycles. The rest had troubled development cycles, with Command being the odd one out. Rare had to change their game completely, through prevailing Nintendo dropped the GameCube on them and Microsoft was knocking on the door while Adventure's beta was being converted. Platinum was signed in, and had to deal with Miyamoto and his ever changing view on the series which took longer than it needed to. Despite all that Platinum had the game finished in late 2014, but after showing the build Miyamoto delayed the game to add in the controversial controls. Its with this that the one core problem emerges and you realize StarFox Command seems more like reality than a fever dream. In no way do I hate or despise Mr. Miyamoto, I just think he's forgotten the leaps it took to make the first StarFox, or at least he think he does. It almost becomes like poetry where the higher up is well known and he has no one of equal status to critique ideas (i.e. George Lucas prequel syndrome). If it is up to anyone to fix StarFox it has to be a new team that will put their life and passion into the series, but Nintendo is not like Sega in some regards. in short 64's mechanics of multiple paths(and gameplay), 2's character variation and RTS like system, and Assault's multiple gameplay styles/ missions would be a sure shot for a solid foundation to start a new game. They tried doing that in Zero, but it was sparse to say the least. All I have for the series is dedication, passion, and appreciation for the people behind my favorite Nintendo series.

[@Adam-xd9tr]

Thank you for focusing on the games structure instead of complaining about the controls! Star Fox 64's branching paths set it apart from other linear shoot'em ups and added immense replayability both for finding every level as well as determining which way to go to get the highest score. It still holds up, but there is room for improvement, as some requirements for the alternative paths are unclear to a new player and the narrative connection between why you go between levels doesn't always exist. If Star Fox Zero expanded up and improved 64's branching paths, it would have made the steep learning curve for the controls more digestible. Sure, they still would have been divisive, but people who gelled with the controls could keep coming back to try and aim for higher and higher scores and pull off tricks that wouldn't be possible in previous games. As is, by the time you get used to the controls, there isn't much left in the game to come back to.

[@orangeslash1667]

That's because Starfox is meant to be replayed over and over. Training mode is an easier way to get use to the controls.

[@junbird]

I finished this game just a few days ago, and it definitely has many problems (some of which you talked about in this video). What angers me, though, is that the core gameplay is actually pretty solid, I like it a lot. I always hear people complaining that the gameplay of Star Fox is too simple for a modern game, and I get that sentiment. However, I think that Star Fox Zero really tried to be a bit more complex, while keeping things simple and familiar. More specifically, the possibility to switch between the Walker and the Arwing at any time brought some really interesting tradeoffs into the gameplay and added a fair amount of variety. And what I enjoyed the most in this game weren't the on-rail levels, but the all-range-mode sections, because there I was really able to take advantage of this dichotomy. I really hope we'll see another Star Fox that will be heavily based on this concept. And of course, I also hope that the next Star Fox game will have a better structure and that it won't be another reboot/remake.

[@darklink1011]

i still think they could of used the name of star fox zero to tell the story of James Mcloud before his fated mission on venom. considering he was the original leader of starfox before his son took over.

[@ln5321]

I love Star Fox. I played Star Fox Zero on release day. I forgot it was a game that existed/that I own until I saw this video in my subscriptions. I've never had that happen with a game before.

[@rumor-936]

Personally I place 64 and Assault at the top of my list. I feel like Assault is the black sheep of the series for trying to do something different, I actually liked the mixed ground segments. But my issue with the series is they seem to be doing the same thing over again. The SNES version, N64, and Zero are pretty much the same game but with the latter versions just having better graphics and some extra features.

[@KarimMaassen]

Thank you! That's EXACTLY how I feel about Zero.

[@jorgecm9464]

If someone can save Star Fox, that is Retro

[@Stephen-Fox]

Either fully commit to the branching path system, complete with fully fleshed out levels that if you're observant or good (I'm not against making some of the secondary objectives explicit, even - Some hidden secret levels are good, but explicit secondary missions where completing sets you out on a different path wouldn't be a bad thing), or do a full on 20-40 hour linear, narrative driven, game Assault style. And in either case, for the love of God, do a new story with it. Though I am... Wary... of how the modern gaming community would respond to a game that you can see a set of final credits after 5 hours of play, but which has 30 hours of content via alternate routes as fleshed out as the main route. Completionists would likely still eat that up, sure, but outside of those, at the moment people seem to want one of three structures from their games: Narrative driven, 10-300 (Oh, JRPGs) hour narrative driven experiences which they'll play once and move on from having played through the story; expansive sandboxes which, if they have an ending or a plot, it's optional rather than mandatory where people can keep playing until they feel like they want to move on; and multiplayer games to keep coming back to for a prolonged period of time. I'm just not sure if a Starfox 64 style, fleshed out branching path system with an arcady feel that can be completed in a single (or just a couple of) sessions from start to finish, but where you're trying to discover new secrets that open up entirely new levels which in turn give you access to other entirely new levels, so that you can get to the end credits and have only seen a third, a quarter, or even less, of the game would be accepted in the current gaming landscape, and that's a real shame. But at the same time, isn't that exactly what we claim we want from our single player, narrative driven, experiences? Real agency, where our choices matter and impact the flow of the story, not just deciding which of three endings we get, but impacting the journey as well? Weird that the structure of Star Fox 64 feels incredibly modern if you break it down, it does what story driven games that try to do it rather than telling linear stories struggle to do these days, but it's hard to imagine a game being structured like 64 being made today.

[@NekoMMDGTS]

Well, part of the thing is the 'beginner' ending in Star Fox 64 that you get at the start isn't the true ending. Granted, they're similar, but one of them is decidedly a different sort of experience, more climactic and satisfying.

[@XanderVJ]

One thing I'd like to point out regarding Miyamoto, since I think the man receives more flak than what it's due. People tend to forget this, but Satoru Iwata promised Nintendo's investors circa 2014 that they would create games that would justify the use of the GamePad in order to create a strong exclusive experience that you couldn't find anywhere else, and that he had put Miyamoto in charge of that idea. "Star Fox Zero" was one of those games. So the use of the GamePad wasn't Miyamoto's vision as much as a corporate mandate. Now, that's not to say that Miyamoto is guiltless on this, far from it. But I think it's important he's criticized for the right reasons. Other than that, great video. I 100% agree that the motion controls are just one of this game's many problems. To me, the issues you point out in this video are actually much worse. I'd say I hope Nintendo learns from this, but after so many misfires in the series, I doubt we'll see a new "Star Fox" game in the next 5 years, if not the next decade.

[@osaka5754]

Really good, fair, and honest video.

[@DoubleADwarf]

If they're so terrified of branching the games out and adding completely new material, they DO have another option to inject some novelty into the series: A prequel game that shows the old Team Star Fox' last mission - from Peppy's perspective. It could give us a little more insight into his history with James and Pigma, and his relationship with Fox later on, as well as a broader view of the Lylat System and how it might have changed between then and now.

[@exeacua]

The control is a entry barrier, but when I surpassed that barrier I got a game with one of the best controls I ever played. I wished a lot more from Starfox Zero but I like it more than 64. The first Starfox game still is my favorite in the series and Zero comes in second place along with Command.

[@gastonrivero]

starfox adventures was awesome

[@Roxor128]

Yeah. It was the game that got me to buy a gamepad for use with emulators.

[@Ziggaton]

Ok I want branching paths, but can we also get on foot shooting and all range landmaster from Assault and specialized Arwing models like Command too? Please? Also Krystal Falyf and Miyu?

[@DesignDoc]

The one good thing about Command were the multiple playable ships. Choosing between Star Fox members should be a key feature in a sequel.

[@dvoremay6683]

All the best elements from past games basically. I actually like assault. Especially the all range mode but they needed larger maps.

[@yoruhana190]

Plz no. Not another over the shoulder shooter. Starfox is a Railshooter thats the heart of the game which should not change.

[@Ziggaton]

Steffi Schiller I disagree, I think there's room for both modes of play. Especially the fun of jumping in and out of different vehicles.

[@dvoremay6683]

Steffi Schiller I'm not saying get rid of rails shooting. Im just saying assault had potential with the third person shooting. It definitely needed more flight levels.

[@fgfhjfhjfbhfghf5771]

Mario games have been using the same story for like 30 years now and yet no one says the series 90% remakes

[@GreyWolfLeaderTW]

One thing I kind of wish the Star Fox series would do is something along the lines of a Space Sim, kind of like the classic Wing Commander games or even elements of Battletech (2018). I mean, the big thing story wise about the series beyond the conflict between Star Fox and Andross is that supposedly Fox and team are a mercenary squadron, and the whole thing about being a mercenary squadron is that you do odd-jobs working for anyone offering a job. I suspect however, based on recently learning that Samus Aran, while historically long been described as a "Bounty Hunter", isn't actually a bounty hunter according to the members of Nintendo of Japan that developed the original games (Metroid 1, 2, and Super Metroid), that Nintendo might not have intended Fox and team to literally be mercenaries as the word actually means in English. In Samus' case, it was an issue of mistaken mistranslation, where they thought "Bounty Hunter" means "Space Adventurer" in English and not "a person hired to hunt down and arrest or kill people with bounties on their heads". The way Fox and team have always been portrayed in the games, they are always working for General Pepper and the Cornerian Army in spite of supposedly being private military contractors. That being said, a game built on at least partially having procedurally generated or dynamically structured missions where Fox and team perform functions like escorting cargo, attacking pirate hideouts, rescuing a space-stranded tycoon in his space yacht, assassinating a mafia boss, or something like that, is an idea I've been developing for a while now. Of course, that kind of desire intrinsically breaks with the unconventional but deeply replayable system of hidden objectives opening up alternate paths for a singularly-authored classic arcade shoot 'em up that Star Fox games typically are.

[@MDWolfe-ks5fu]

“Star Fox 2; Does This Count?” (Holding up and SNES mini) Yeah, you can count this.

[@marioisawesome8218]

This is the best review for Star Fox Zero I was looking for. I love you man. No homo tho.

[@wiilover07]

Star Fox Zero could have been great. The were constantly fighting back at you. I hope the series gets back to greatness again.

[@plentyofpaper]

Star Fox Zero Team: We're going to make a Star Fox game where you can move the aiming reticule freely. It's going to take the series to new hights! Common sense: Well, your a generation late, but the WiiU can still use Wii Remotes and nunchucks, so as long as those are still around, it should work great! Just like Sin and Punishment Star Successor! Star Fox Zero: We're going to use the gyro controls on the WiiU gamepad, and display a cockpit view on it with a regular view on the main screen. Common sense: What? Star Fox Zero: I like that Wii Remote idea though. Lets add a coop mode. The Wii-remote and nunchuck can steer, and the gamepad can aim. Common sense: Bye.

[@ZipplyZane]

I don't agree the branching paths haven't been done before. You just described how Super Mario World works. You complete a secret objective, and you wind up in a different level, a part of the game you didn't know existed.

[@elderjose9662]

and associated with the fact that in the original super nintendo there wasn't much of this issue of how to reach secret levels with few exceptions it is kind of clear that it is in it that they are based for the most part because the references to star fox zero are more to starfox than snes that the 64

[@MegaFilth69]

Star fox 64 was a masterpiece! Still one of my favorite games of all time.

[@TheSpeep]

I have never played a Starfox game, but if they ever release a new one and it plays like something like Ace Combat, id buy the shit outta that

[@Seburo77]

Great video. I hope Starlink lets us enjoy our Arwings... Better yet, I hope Nintendo does a proper Starfox. Like a Star Fox Zero with better looks, better bosses, better script and remade-simplified controls. :P

[@MissAshley42]

Star Fox should've gone the Rogue Squadron route a long time ago. Miyamoto just wants to keep remaking Space Harrier, though.

[@DesignDoc]

Frankly I think it should continue to do a mix of both like 64. The scenarios just need to be more elaborate on both sides. It needs less stuff like the landmaster and gyrowing.

[@DyrianLightbringer]

For me, the worst part of Zero came down to how I used my WiiU. For the vast majority of my WiiU games, I never turned on my tv, and just used the gamepad only. When I got Zero, I tried to do the same thing, only to find out that Zero is nearly unplayable that way. When you use the gamepad only, you're removing the intended function of the gamepad for that game, and it's really difficult to use motion controls when the thing you have to move is also the thing you have to look at.

[@SideShowBatt]

Just keep it as an on-rail shooter, with branching paths, and classic non-motion control options. How hard is that?

[@orangeslash1667]

The problem is that rail shooters are short, it works in the 3ds era but not in Switch era. Or at least not for a big company.

[@mechashadow]

Know what I want. Starfox The Telltale game. That anime footage is a great starting point

[@TheHypersonic55]

Very well said! I found this video by chance and it was really cool and informative. I really hope Nintendo make another Star Fox game that isn't another remake, but a more refined version of Assault or heck something similar to Starlink would be interesting.

[@magicjohnson3121]

Get rid of the third person shooter stuff

[@Supercomet13A]

"its up to nintendo to bring back the color" I think you mean ubisoft there bud.

[@Vvonter]

I agree at the same time I liked Zero better than Assault. Like they say with how Mario jumps feel. Zero feels right in how you mobe and shoot. I do wonder how hard it is to pitch this type of game nowadays sonce the main issue with this is how short the game is by design and many players don't want pay full price for a short game.

[@derpboyzero7669]

I was super excited for Zero. Knew the Wii U had few gems vs the PS4. Once I snagged a copy upon not even fully completing it I dropped it. And it sits in my small lonely library of Wii U games. A Starfox with potential. Upon it rushed to give the Wii U a release to look forward to, it didn't excite me to the very end, which is tragic.

[@VestedUTuber]

I kinda want to see the game go the "tactical space sim" route. Kinda like Wing Commander or Freespace. It suits the setting, and it would also bring a genre that's currently EXTREMELY niche and currently almost completely exclusive to PCs to a wider audience. The game would have almost no competition in the console market (the only other game in the tactical space sim genre on consoles is EVE: Valkyrie) and is perfectly suited to space sim gameplay with simplified controls, making it far more accessible to people while still providing that free-flight space combat experience that you only really get in games like Wing Commander.

[@MarxSoul2001]

I'd like to see a Star Fox game from the perspective of Star Wolf. It would have good opportunistic for novel gameplay mechanics (new kind of aircrafts maybe? Or controlling one of those giant bosses!), or a new story line! Imagine, instead of going from Corneria to whichever planet to fight Andross, you hop around the galaxy fighting the good guys and conquering planets, maybe experimenting with new and Not Very Ethical technologies, then you meet the Star Fox team and you have to fight them. And the branching path system too. Final mission? Either on Andross' planet (Fight Star Fox before they can get to Andross) or on Corneria (Fight Star Fox and finally control the whole system). Maybe one of the endings could have you fight Andross, and if you win, you take his place as Big Bad Evil Guy!

[@Sluppie]

I actually enjoyed the control scheme, yet after unlocking all of the missions I never played SF Zero again, and the boring side-missions are a big reason why. All of the stages in SF 64 felt like their own unique scenario and each one brought something interesting. Corneria was the tutorial as always, but the asteroid field had more emphasis on dodging rocks, solar forced you to worry about how low you were flying, Macbeth and Titania were entirely different levels even though both used the Landmaster. Meanwhile the only thing cool about Star Fox Zero was the part where you fly through the shield to get to the enemy's capital ship. If Star Fox Zero were the first game released in the Star Fox series, the rest of the series would not exist.

[@kurokamina8429]

Its so strange because if you remove any sort of bias towards any of the starfox games, you will find elements or ideas that if implemented into a traditional starfox game, it would make it a new experience. StarFox Command and 2 for example, both games allowed yoh for the first time play as other characters and ships for the first time. Each ship plays differently from one another, it would be a really interesting to have to pick which teammates you want to bring on any sort of mission or who you want to play. Brings a sort of strategy to the classic style. Also it helps protect teammates you might need for a later mission. StarFox Adventures while not at all classic starfox but its clear that lore would be a great addition to the series and would keep people talking about the game afterwards. Have collectable discs or something that adds lore for the bosses or setting. You should make a more indepth video on the things nintendo hasn't done and things that would be cool to do.

[@AftercastGames]

I, too, have been analyzing these games since the very beginning. I actually like StarFox better than 64, but they have been a disaster ever since. I’ve been trying to put my finger on the problem for a while now, and the best that I can come up with is that StarFox has the same problem that almost all modern games and movies have. They hit their peak at exactly the right time, and that time will never come again. You will never be at that age again, and the technology will never be what it was to make such a technological and literary achievement come together to make something magical. There will never be another “The Matrix”, no matter how hard people try to make one. It was the perfect movie at the perfect time, and that doesn’t happen very often. Just be glad that you got to experience it with the rest of us. And be glad that you can still play those games and watch those movies, and enjoy them more for what they were, rather than what they are.

[@bryanv.3630]

I'm still praying they release an actual Star Fox game on the switch before it dies. I don't think starlink really counts, even though it does heavily integrate starfox. Maybe one day we'll get something good..

[@suroguner]

Ironicly, Star Fox 2 is technically the latest Star Fox game if only because it was a new Release in the SNES Classic!

[@Motoskichimo1974]

Well, there's always StarLink... Which is odd as it's not a starfox game, but they've confirmed that Fox is actually gonna be worked into the story, and not just be a bonus.

[@DesignDoc]

Unfortunately there aren't really any other space shooters that have quite the same feeling as Star Fox. They don't quite scratch the same itch.

[@mfeliciano671]

I know for fact that star link is going to be the star Fox we should have gotten

[@HaxHaunter]

the answer to where the star fox series can go from now on, is in a non-starfox game that has exclusive star fox content with its own story and integration into the game: Starlink: Battle for Atlas. this is the best route for the future of the Star Fox Series, and if Nintendo has noticed that, im sure they can talk to Ubisoft to develop together a new Star Fox game that will kind of pull off a Breath of the Wild with the series, by taking it into a new route that can evolve the series. sure, we love SF64 and such, but rail shooters are not really appealing to the general consumer anymore, so grabbing the open space genre that Starlink has and implementing it into Star Fox is a good route that can please most consumers.

[@henryh.448]

I never played Zero, but I did play a lot of StarFox 64 and some Assault. There's no question which is better. Assault has sappy soap-opera story, while 64 has a story and dialogue that actually feel real. They actually talk like they're in a war, whereas in Assault, they talk like it's a giant kiddy drama. Unbelievable that with all this graphics technology, and they are going backwards with story sophistication. But you know, after watching this, I never realized before the branching vs linear gameplay. That's another -1 for Assault.

[@garouchieflol]

the Easter egg in bayo 2 was the right path for the franchise

[@elderjose9662]

being honest and arriving late on the subject, I think I understand why they took this issue of choosing the path in ways as difficult as it was on n64 and this lapse of alternative routes, already at the time there were complaints about this mechanic being very difficult and that this would alienate the mainstream audience, and as with all star fox remakes they were trying to attract the more mainstream audience for the franchise to have new fans, I understand why they made that decision, even when I was younger I had a LOT of difficulty with this and for me it was a measure to attract the mainstream public to the game

[@Salidin111]

Star fox with FTL elements is my fantasy. A similar game with reworked gameplay with a few procedural generated on rail segments as side missions and hidden objectives in main missions imagine if you had to face a literal war, damage to allies is important rank/skill system determines the "skill" of the pilots. I feel we would never get away from the Andross motif so just imagine you played as the mercenary squadron which had to simply survive in a galaxy filled with war against andross in cornilia. So many of your decisions would impact the other war effort for both sides. Of course this is a huge change in the series and would take years of effort to get close to a scale of other nintendo games today but on a Switch a survival rouge like game with iconic IP would definitely be accepted I feel.

[@DesignDoc]

A rogue like Star Fox would be interesting. I’d like to see Nintendo’s take on that genre.

[@kylecampbell565]

Technically speaking 3D added the abilty to save, redo missions and score attack mode other than that good video

[@OMGITZRUFFLZ]

The communicator FX is my notification sound I thought I got some texts lol

[@magnaknight9252]

Star Fox could be a golden opportunity for Nintendo to try something new instead of just giving them another game, why not give them their own show, I mean there are tons of SciFi and anthropomorphitic animals shows, comics, and movies over the years, so it is possible to create a Star Fox show. I was thinking of improving their character designs, personality, give them their own origins, as well as giving them character development as the story goes on, and rewrite the story like in Star Fox Adventures. I wouldn't make Krystal be a damsel in distress when she was trapped in a magic crystal until Fox saves her at the end of the game, I was thinking to make her the main character in the story when she meets Fox for the first time, but she didn't like him at first because he was a stranger on her second home planet and tried to kill him because of misunderstanding, then they work things out, and decided to work together to accomplish their goals while also getting to know each other more.

[@tuazulyrojoeljean]

What?? 25 years?? Naaah, it can't be that much. I remember being in highschool when it was released *goggles star fox snes* Damn! I feel old now!

[@NathanGatten]

I'm so happy that I'm not the only one who loves star fox 2. 2nd best game in the series to me.

[@fisherdotogg]

Sequel stories to 64 don't really work because the characters as writ don't work outside of a war setting? Then the solution is easy, make the next game a prequel. Give us a game where Fox is at the military academy with Slippy and Bill as his wingmates because the three of them attended together as we know. James could even be alive although his death would probably be part of the story. As a bonus, maybe bring Miyu and Fay back as fellow classmates and imply that they later become the two pilots who are Bill's options in later games like Zero where he has them flanking him at all times.

[@Jo__Ko]

Nintendo should let Ubisoft make a new star fox game, starlink with fox looks amazing!

[@MaestroDrake]

Star Fox Zero VS Starlink

[@FateStrife]

I want this game FIXED and released on the Switch!

[@DRay62889]

Well, at least now we have Starlink with Fox. That looks like the kind of game Starfox should have evolved into even though the structure may be different it still looks better than Star Fox Zero.