Destiny 2 Lore - How Savathun killed Nezarec, How we resurrected him & why he's still probably alive

[@MynameisByf]

Head to keeps.com/byf to get 50% off your first order of hair loss treatment.

[@SuikaIbuki]

@@xvx_k1r1t0_xvxkillme7 i use sponsorblock :D

[@SnowballsToTheWalls]

I am a father of 9 and get smashed in pvp daily. I finally got my first raid clear last week and now I have a full head of hair! Thanks bif

[@bryantmoore7117]

Dang, missed opportunity to say Nezarec lost his hair when he gained the dad bod, which is why he started wearing the big pointy helmet.

[@inquisitorichijou883]

So during the Collapse, Savthun, who was already under suspicion by the Witness and watched over by Rhulk, managed to convice the Witness to walk away while the fight was still in progress, then she killed Nezarec aboard his flagship and took the Veil, the key to commune with the Traveler and hide it before going completely dark. What a badass Hvie queen.

[@OthersideSparrow]

God of trickery, am I rite?

[@inquisitorichijou883]

@@OthersideSparrow That's one hell of a con she pulled off. And she knew it

[@acooldude2226]

God tier Imposter

[@byranwitherspoon5369]

@@inquisitorichijou883 yup so much so that we couldn’t fathom what she was doing with the traveler but now hind site she had the perfect plan all along… everything she has done from tricking crota to the murder battery has brought us to this moment

[@elseggs6504]

​@@byranwitherspoon5369 the murderbattery 100% was an experiment to deal with the worm. Until she realized she could just die and get chosen

[@ghostassassin1107]

Further proof Savathun was the better villain. She put one disciple down and locked away the other. She was right when she told us you can't argue with her results. I'm starting to want her back purely to see what she does next.

[@gruntKILLERable]

I think she’s more an antagonist than a villain

[@joellynncrowthers4623]

Something self serving I’m sure

[@joshuachelette6277]

She will be back her ghost is still alive

[@dougcarey2233]

Oh, she'll be back.

[@MadMac5]

I will be genuinely surprised if Savathun isn't resurrected before The Final Shape is released. At this point, she doesn't necessarily want us to win... but she DOES want The Witness to lose.

[@christopherp63]

Honestly I never ever thought Savathun would live up to her expectations set by D2 but the fact that she has exceeded them is crazy

[@madderred7853]

Notably, the ENTIRE raid and the presence of the cabal seems to be what he wants. He calls them recruits, he asks us to kill the boss on third encounter because he didn't accomplish as much as we did. Basically the half-dead nezarec head used psychic power to order the cabal to figure out a way to nourish him with the roots, but they failed or were taking too long, and in fighting the cabal, or perhaps for it's own sake, we do their job. Pretty neat.

[@FARAIM_Enjoyer]

Kinda like how we powered up the upended by killing in Vow

[@Shanno-B]

Wrong he hated them and called them useless. Listen good when in the raid

Savathun is a freaking badass, honestly.

[@79bigcat]

Took out 2 disciples before we did. And she soloed them. But she couldn't put them down for good.

[@79bigcat]

@@cry1pticzer773 Both of which fall under the phrase "took out".

[@SanctusRexGAVIAL]

Oryx and Savathun are the best.

[@Unsaelig]

@@79bigcat I mean. Can WE take them out for good, either? In the case of Nezarec in particular, anyway? Nezarec was, what? On his ninth tomb, before our revival? I believe Root would make his tenth. That doesn’t exactly present good odds for him being “gone for good” this time, either.

[@anickslife]

10000%

[@jazzichan4738]

Every time I hear the line where Nezerac says ‘cured my remains’ All I can picture is Savathun tea bagging the ever loving crap out of him 😂

[@rageinducer2455]

Lmao, i knew you meant "cursed" but your typo is hilarious because to "Cure someone" is a slang where i'm from meaning to "beat the hell out of."

[@wearsjorge55]

When you say cure all I see is some nezy salami hanging in the garage

[@thedodorex7612]

@@rageinducer2455 I’m picturing him hanging on a jerky rack

[@DHDragon]

There's another thing I can't believe Byf missed/didn't discuss. In the lore tab for Conditional Finality, he specifically says "I had *always* welcomed death, and this time would be no different." Even the very name implies it: *conditional* finality. Nezarec had *died before* Savathun killed him, and up until that point, every time he died *he had risen again*. When Savathun killed him, she used Hive Magic to ensure he wouldn't rise again - we don't *have* that magic. We can't stop him from coming back to life.

[@christianp7592]

In the lore tab, they said that when savathun killed him, she “shackled” him, as well as a “green hue” aura around her. I thought this was a reference to strand, magic we have now.

[@Gee-bg2rv]

@@christianp7592 the green hue is just hive magic. Strand wasn’t a thing back then. Although it seemed pretty convenient as to how easily we attained it in LF, no one had ever discovered the power of strand before

[@christianp7592]

@@Gee-bg2rv i think the shackling was a pretty specific term to use, and the green as well makes for quite the “coincidence.” If it was one or the other id be less sure, but ask the words they could’ve chosen and they picked”shackling” Also apparently the strand magic is linked to the veil, so maybe that’s how scathing was able to use it, maybe even just briefly. Who knows maybe she couldn’t control the power like us for the entirety of LF lol

[@Gee-bg2rv]

@@christianp7592 Hive magic my man. Savathun didn’t know what strand was so I highly doubt she’d be able to use a new power she has no idea how to use by accident just like that, use to kill a disciple and then not know she used a new different power by accident

[@eotwkdp]

@@Gee-bg2rvI wouldn’t trust any record that remotely has witch queen involved. There’s always something you have to read into or it’s a trick to fuck with your mind

[@harrisonhamilton5284]

So we thought Nezarec may have betrayed the Witness, but with this, does it mean that Nezarec’s sin was simply being weak enough to die?

[@OmegaSovereignK-]

That or he could be the Lucifer of D2.

[@eliaspanayi3465]

That does make sense, the whole sword logic philosophy means that the worst thing you can be is weak

[@therhinolord6084]

No I think his sin is not choosing either one. He's lukewarm. Even in the Abraham's religions it says God will spit you out cause your neither hot not cold. And on top the witness hates pain. You have pain cause you're weak and since you're weak you don't you deserve to live hence the sword logic.

[@harrisonhamilton5284]

@@therhinolord6084 that’s actually another good point. Though I guess all this culminated into the question of why the witness wanted Him, I assumed it would be to bring him back, but maybe it was more of something along the lines of the punishment dished out to Eramis, now that the Witness had the chance to get Nezarec back

[@Brad-ut1ro]

@@OmegaSovereignK-u mean in the sense of being a “fallen angel”? Like maybe he was chosen by the light and then defected? Would b interesting

[@lilwindingo1100]

It’s still strange and ironic that both the light and the dark seem to reject him. His sadistic cruelty doesn’t seem to resonate with either side.

[@thefoxcreation3580]

When did any of them reject him?

[@elitereptilian200]

@@thefoxcreation3580 you didn't watch/listen the video did you?

[@DronesOverTheMoon]

​@@elitereptilian200They are preaching around the fact that Nez is too cocky and thats why he lost, simbolism be damned if Nez actually could take the power Willingly the raid mechanic would just be to survive and clean adds till he implodes for dps phase wich is the exact opposite of what happens, we Trigger the waves of light and dark and he is rejected by both

[@enixraghunath703]

Light does not want needless suffering, the witness wants no suffering at all. The only way to achieve their goal is to destroy everything forever

[@thefoxcreation3580]

@@elitereptilian200 bro they didn't reject him. It was just too much

[@codegreen7186]

Would be cool to see how nezerac stacks up power lore wise against other villains, especially rhulk. On another savathun was easily the light mvp. We better redeem ourselves by ending hr witness

[@itstept]

I had interpreted the light and dark beams that hit Nezarec to be triggered by our actions in the encounter, not his. I would think that we are intentionally linking these overwhelming energies to weaken Nezarec, rather than him drawing on too much for himself. But I could be wrong

[@shaun6104]

No, you are completely right. That is whats happening.

[@lezestykiwi909]

I completely agree with you

[@n8dawgg93]

You are right But its more like us connecting the powers of light and dark, and nezarec being damaged by the forces of light and dark is a way to say: "We accept the guardians. We do not accept you. They are worthy or our power, you are not."

[@thefoxcreation3580]

@@n8dawgg93 nope

[@thefoxcreation3580]

@@shaun6104 and no as well

[@kyanballet2960]

i just find it funny that with Savathun and Nezarec they are talking to us like they are at therapy and letting it all out and we the guardian are just there like "silence", and Sav and Nez both point out our eternal silence

[@drewweber7031]

So here's an idea, Nezarec's Sin's lore discribes him as a traitor to the Witness but doesn't tell us how. In Witch Queen we learn that Savathun somehow decieved the Witness and took the Veil to Neptun. Conditional Finality's lore says tells us that Nezarec was killed by Savathun and how she took the Veil from him. Could it be possible that the Witness gave Nezarec the title of tratior after the moment Savathun killed him? She could have lied to the Witness saying how Nezarec had turned against them and tried to hide the Veil. This could be the deception Savathun's worm mentioned durring the Parasite quest.

[@nathanbeverley247]

Nezarec being weakened by using both powers reminds me of that moment after our guardian used Strand for the first time. Our power drained, and the ghost commented that our vital signs dropped into the red. Possible connection?

[@soulsires6996]

Byf! Without you! I would be dead in the water! Thank you for helping with all lore! You the man!

[@soulsires6996]

Even though you are a warlock, you are awesome

[@Loderyod]

@@soulsires6996 ayo, racism!?

[@joshuavidrine889]

@@Loderyod *classism

[@omensoffate]

@@Loderyod racism? Are you a democrat

[@Loderyod]

@@omensoffate Watch your mouth, KZbin even hid your comment for such preposterous insult!

[@wilsonfisher5011]

one thing I hope with a future season is that we end up back under that tree of silver wings somehow. It feels like the traveler sent that beam knowing it would not kill the Witness but that it would give hope for survival through the tree.

[@jshort275]

"What is it you plan to do, Guardian?" -- I keep going back to this quote from Savathun... and I may be looking too deep but it always seems like she was asking us a question that seemed obvious for the moment but had implications for so much more.

[@Spidamonk]

Savathun will always go down as one of the best written villains in video games for me just because how deep everything around her with the story becomes. Its almost like the Traveler only resurrected her as thanks for sheltering it from the Witness for as long as she did.

[@magic_cfw]

Perhaps Nezarec exists in perpetuity not in the same sense of life and death. I think that he perhaps is so closely linked to the psychic realm, he manifests himself through pain. This is drawing parallels with how the act of War empowers Xivu Arath. Perhaps unlike Savathun and Xivu who perhaps weren't granted such intimate use of the darkness (at the point of becoming a disciple), the ability to exist beyond "death" though the concept of pain is probably the ability he gained upon becoming a Disciple. He may disappear to some other plane of existence beyond the Vex Network or Ascented Plane, which both allows him to recover but also make it difficult for him to return.

[@TheRealJohnux]

Maybe. His Mind was still alive during the hundreds of years after the collapse. He "saw" from beyond his death what we were doing on earth, and the Influence of his psychic Powers even reached to Neptune. Who knows if there isn't a place that his Mind survives death itself.

[@Outlander19]

Imagine if we got an exotic quest that purged nezarec's whispers/remnants from the mind of the guardian containing it within an exotic weapon. A minature version of Night Terror, a new weapon archetype maybe combinig the scythe from the harvester and the tormentors abilities

[@Laeshen]

doesn't even have to be a new archetype, it could be a new glaive frame with a unique moveset kinda like the different sword frames.

[@Atypical_Typo]

+1 for heavy Scythe weapon

[@Outlander19]

@@Laeshen that was the other way i was thinking about how it could be imolemented

[@darthball2723]

Or well I mean they already have a scythe move set from season of the haunted

[@impossibleegg3689]

unfortunately, I think the best we'll get is a Dark Harvest (Tormentor grab-attack) finisher which'll be fucking cool, but just not quite an Exotic

[@KjcKiesh]

I hope this isn't the last we see of Nezerac, it would be a heavy loss of villains this expansion to lose him and Calus in one go

[@captainreaper6381]

Currently in my list of destiny villain I want to see again in the future: Nezarec and Savathun are top of the list.

[@skillshottopher]

​@@captainreaper6381 watch Bungie make Taniks ruin ya career🤣

[@wearsjorge55]

Wouldn't be appossed to nez coming back for more but please no more calus. While it feels like it ended a bit prematurely I'm happy he's done

[@Kilo_23]

They'll defo bring back all the enemy's that died and corpses formed the resonance branches, have a feeling the witness is gonna "drink the light" and gain powers of the light to revive all his lackeys and previous disciples that we've defeated prior to slow us down from fighting/stopping him and his final shape. Probably the final raid will have each encounter be a previous disciple or include them in some way at the very least.

[@Gee-bg2rv]

We’ve had plenty of calus. It was his time to go

[@RagingSpartan24]

With the revelation that Savathun killed Nezarec, i wonder if him being called a traitor was because of Savathun stealing the Veil and laying the blame on him to cover for herself...

[@garypalmer997]

It could be that or it could also be implied he was a traitor to the psions, who worship him, somehow. All we know for sure is in the lore (so far) he never was a traitor to the witness. I assume that's why byf didnt say that in this video. He might of just got caught up on the community calling him a traitor to the witness with no actual proof and he has realized that. Or I could totally be wrong!

[@RagingSpartan24]

@@garypalmer997 That why i think that if it was related to the witness, that it was a lie from Savathun but i never thought about it being because of the Psions. If so, it could probably be a perceived betrayal by them or a mess up on his part imo.

[@IvoryTempestCandleOfStories]

@@garypalmer997 And the Nezarec's sin helmet was worn by a ridiculously powerful Scion who hunted him down for his sin against them. And he died, and the Scions went back to worshipping him. But he left the answers within his helmet to warn others who fall the schemes of the Final God of Pain.

[@greendragon4444]

You say it's a rejection of both powers...But what if it is instead the curse Savathunn placed on him. The curse caused his own void powers to consume him in the end. I think it would track that the curse causes any power that he controls the reverb back at him, hurting him.

[@aegisnol6644]

I honestly miss Savathun. She is one of the most interesting characters they have made.

[@roman-1856]

If Nezarec was reborn from Light and Dark... does that make him somewhat similar to the awoken? Or to something more "pure" than the awoken because he was subjected more intense to the Powers of L&D?

[@aljazslemc9569]

Interesting connection. I guess so, though the situation is a little different. Actually its almost switched. That being said it seems like it's more of a brutish unrefined sort of system. His wipe mechanic seems completely unwilling. Like shocking someone with static electricity buildup.

[@francescomena8181]

Well, they're called Awoken, and Nezerac is the source of Nightmares. I think the connection is intended.

[@ryanmaxwell7816]

Something I find an interesting possibility is this, Nez describes Savathun's power both as green (which could just tie in to the Hive's soulfire) and shackling him (or tying him down). It seems to be the case that Nez had the Veil during the collapse and as Osiris says the Veil seems to leave traces of Strand behind itself or at least make it easier to make use of it. While I admit this is tenuous at best, remember that during last mission in Witchqueen we were dealing with threadcutter, threadbearer/threadweavers. Probably not the case but would be interesting if Savathun had access to Strand and she didn't remember as we hadn't found any artifact to trigger those, wonder if we have any spare Nez-cafe for the Altarss of Reflection

[@byranwitherspoon5369]

I think your on to something

[@ajaloncole7559]

thank god someone is speaking facts

[@jameysotelo540]

Im curious with the fact that nezarec lead the battle of the first collapse on earth does that mean that the veil was originally hidden on earth? since we know he was going to take it back to the witness until savathun came and took it from him and cursed him and than whisked it away to neptune for hiding again?

[@badluckcharm2371]

This is a point I would like to bring up the implications mean that everyone who knew what the veil did or was died and that once again the speaker was useless

[@Emrirwastaken]

Pretty sure nez was ferrying the veil on his pyramid ship, where savathun killed him, and stole the veil to stow it away in the depths of neptune

[@vatanak8146]

The veil is ancient and likely talen from the witnesses earlier victims

[@jameysotelo540]

@@Emrirwastaken ya after he lead the witnesses forces to collect it most likely on earth and after that he was on his way back with the prize savathun snuck on him killed him cursed him took the veil and hid it on neptune somewhere

[@wearsjorge55]

Just going by what we see in the ending of LF, the veil opens a portal or something that the witness enters which does explain why he's chased the traveller for so long. So I believe the witness at the collapse already had the veil and just needed to use it on the traveller and had finally cornered it. Part of me wonders if it came from that giant light crystal thing the hive destroyed eons ago

[@blake5225]

I think it's still plausible he can be revived. We should still have his body pieces. If he can be revived by a lil piece the witness happened to collect it makes sense. Plus he was even saying in the raid he wasn't at full power because he didn't have his other parts

[@GusOmega]

Based on concept art, he's a chimera of different species. I think the Traveler's beam rebirthed his remains, and stitched it together in a alien Frankenstein's monster soup.

[@ech0e404]

The Root of Nightmares is honestly a great example and under appreciated example of environmental storytelling. It’s more than just “reused assets”

[@The10thX]

I wonder if the Tombs of Nezarec all contain his different incarnations, his existence is a psionic being so unless we use psionic abilities we likely will never be able to defeat him, it's likely he has incarnated multiple times throughout history and passed away, leaving behind his tombs and legends.

[@DonZillaDaGod]

Savathun was really catching bodies and we undoing all her hard work 😂

[@Midnaighte]

She temporarily killed him, but we killed him for good

[@eliaspanayi3465]

We're eating crayons, savathun has been playing 8D chess with multiverse time travel

[@TheRealJohnux]

Watch her get revived in the last season of Lightfall, to either be extremly smug or extremly annoyed.

[@arjunbaweja7755]

@@TheRealJohnux not the last but def both. Especially annoyed

[@judemcnab4394]

honestly if Immaru ever gets off his lazy ass and revives Savathûn I think we owe her a few drinks down at the Ether Tank

[@eliaspanayi3465]

Agreed, she doesn't need to use trickery to survive anymore thanks to removing her worm, and now we actually know what's going on and who stands where in this conflict it would be cool to see

[@EdgedPixie]

We already kind of lost the traveller, so she won't need to reseal the traveller. She doesn't need to lie to satiate her worm because her worm is currently sitting beside what's left of Oryx and his Worm God in our vault. We have nothing to fight her over anymore. And our goals are the same. We really need to ally with her at this point

[@aeternusgaites]

I have a sneaking suspicion that Nezerak lives on within Osiris. He consumed his Essence. And the Neomuni didn’t start having these dreams until we stepped onto Neptune. There’s a moment in the campaign where Osiris looks out towards a flash and his eyes seemed red. But if there is a way for Nezerak to manifest once more, it might come back it might very well be through Osiris.

[@CrushableDread]

I’m sure Savathun tricked the Witness into going into what it thought was the portal it entered at the end of Lightfall. And it ended up sending the Witness and the Black Fleet incredibly far away.

[@Amanzy3]

ehm no? lol

[@IvoryTempestCandleOfStories]

And then the voices com to them, saying: "We have waited, we asked you to stop. You couldn't resist trespassing upon our great firmament. Now, we have you where we want. Now we, the Architects, will be rid of you and your darklings, and shall rebuild our firmament wrecked by your atrocities!" There is no way this would happen but I am obsessed with idea of the fabled Architects finally having a mention above the kill feed.

[@carlhartmann7661]

I think it'd be cool if the Traveler was bigger than the Witness and the concept of Light and Dark in general, and that once you enter the portal, it's sorta like a prison for objectives from our reality. I don't really know if a zombie generating ball of energy is a good thing or not.

[@Gee-bg2rv]

I wanna say that makes sense but if that was the case then why did the pyramid fleet and the witness take so long to be on the way to sol? The pyramid fleet didn’t move towards sol until the traveler awakened at the end of the vanilla campaign.

[@bassdropheadshot]

I think the way bungie did the raid progression from a story aspect is very interesting it took me a few runs to realize that we were essentially doing a big circle and that nezeracs boss arena was a part of the first area

[@infectedbait5693]

Isn't Delicate Tomb a "tomb" of Nezarec? Not only did the gun come out during Season of Plunder but it's lore tab fits quite well with Nezarec's character

[@RuiNDieM1988]

I think from this info we can infer that The Veil is an instrument of darkness used to strip the traveler of its defenses (hense its connection to strand). We can also infer that Nezarec has died multiple times before and always comes back somehow.

[@ajaloncole7559]

how so

[@somethinstubby5928]

These comments are filled with so many good theories, connected lore and sparked so much discussion! Great video 👍

[@creation23]

Everyone is out here debating whether Nezerac is dead but it seems like people have forgotten.. how many times have we "killed" Taniks only for him to appear as another boss?

[@TheRealJohnux]

3 times before d2. 2 go on Cayde 1 on us. 4 if you count the SIVA makeover So he died either 4 or 5 times to Us or Guardians in general. It's still unlikely we see Nezarec in his physical Form again. Maybe one day when we enter a realm of mind we kill him off for good if that isn't the case already.

[@dylanshutts1926]

Ironic that the only thing that was left of nezarec after savathun killed him, was his head. The reason i think its ironic is that the very first mention of him was nezarec's sin. A helmet.

[@HollisKing]

You have forever changed how I view Destiny with your efforts. Thank you fellow Guardian.

[@SETHBENTON09]

Byf: *Discussing lore* "Hey by the way guardian, try Keeps if you want hair like Uldren, or if you want hair like Zavala just keep on doing your thing."

[@tornap4rt]

Is savathun our greatest enemy? Or our greatest ally? I like to think she may become an ally to us in the future. After all she was trying to keep the traveler from the witness. It’s interesting to think about.

[@anthonymoore915]

That outro and the timing with the crescendo? **Chef's Kiss*

[@randomman11167]

With savathun Cursing nezerac and stuff It kinda makes me wonder if Osiris got the memory of Neptune because of her meddling. What if she used the curse on nezerac former body to somehow affect the wake me up tea that we used on Osiris to implant a memory in him as she knew the witness and the traveler needed the veil as she does want to protect the traveler afterall

[@Botmini17]

That is incredible that savathun just showed up to the final god of pain’s ship suspended him ,took the veil and killed him. A true menacing character that is only doing all that for herself and the hive.

[@Sticks_]

The contest mode and overall raid was so much fun. Thanks for the vid

[@cloudy3538]

@MynameisByf Quick theory, in the altar of reflection Savathun says the traveler may not be the only one of its kind, maybe she used the paracausal powers of the veil to project an illusion of other travelers coming to the rescue of sol, which made the witness retreat

[@mathewabraham1928]

So the green hue around when Nezarec when he died fighting against savathun... Savathun at the end of witch queen campaign paused or slowed us guardians in the air before you actually fight against her...she using strand against us. So strand is the power of the witch queen

[@savagewraith]

Nezerac damage phase is like us in the campaign suffering from using Strand too much to where we go back to our basic elements. For Nezerac, it's void. So, in theory, Nezerac IS a God like being that only when weakened enough, can we even start to harm him.

[@chiaroscuro7927]

Rejected by the light and dark implies that the light and dark are not just forces, but are also sentient. If we are going to stick with them just being forces, there may be a better way to interpret the beams of light and dark before a DPS phase. They could be moments of exhaustion, like what we experienced when we were learning Strand. Maybe Nezerac's exhausted state leaves him with more than when we get exhausted. Where does it lead us, if the light and dark can reject people?

[@nightshadexl242]

Nezzerac only “assumes” Savathun took the veil at that point, also could the curse on his remains be what influence those who wielded it. Admittedly it’s cool that that only his head was remained like the only armour piece (the helmet).

[@KilothATEOTT]

"We killed the final god of pain and all we got was this shotgun." -6 Murder-Hobo Guardians 2023

[@brandonsommers8423]

We've already seen Nezerac after the raid, the Final Warning quest was supposed to come out after the raid and we fight one of his imprints during it.

[@SydneyPayne87]

That nezerec stem thing looks like a key to me. And I find it interesting that it’s pointing to the hole in the traveler.

[@Dunidid]

Can't wait for the raid lore video. Thanks Byf as always

[@prometheus625]

You can see only his head remaining in the raid. In the first encounter you can see his body regrowing from his head within the encasement.

[@Emrirwastaken]

One thing i want to mention, in the boss fight against nezarec, his "tomb" is being entangled in the root of the ToSW, and protruding out from the side of his tomb? A sort of staff, or key, with sticks and bits arranged seemingly randomly all the way up its length. Where have we seen that same object? The witness holding it, in promo art for lightfall

[@abdoul5176]

Where can I find this promo art? it sounds cool af.

[@Emrirwastaken]

@@abdoul5176 i forgot the original source, but i remember seeing it in a reddit post pre-RoN asking what the witness was holding. It was one of those pictures where it is like black and gold sillouettes

[@verevo8236]

It’s been so long since I watched a destiny lore video. I forgot how intricate and deep it is.

[@talialevi2723]

Something very interesting I'm sure you're thinking about: the words used to describe Savathûn's attacks against Nezarec are closely related to strand. We know Savathûn uses Warlock supers and needlestorm is a barrage of green arrows that pierce the enemy. Nezarec describes being shackled, and one of the grenades we use is the shackle grenade. Obviously it's possible that bungie just happened to use the same words to describe hive soulfire and strand. But we know that bungie tends to be particular about their words (like how whispers are associated with Nezarec), we know that strand is somewhat associated with the Veil, and we know that strand came out simultaneously with this lore tab, so the words would be fresh in mind. We also know that the main tutor for us of strand is Osiris, who carries Savathun's memories and secrets. I don't think this is just coincidence...

[@silver4723]

Cayde had a message talking about the collapse, basically that there was a force present wanting him to witness the chaos. I believe that was nezerech

[@MR_Nosy_Otter1]

video topic starts at 2:58 before that is add and discalimer that info might become outdated. you're welcome

[@emperorholocron8278]

Rule 1 of Destiny: It’s always Savathûn.

[@S3Cs4uN8]

And it got old two years ago.

[@flamingscar5263]

@@S3Cs4uN8 eh not really, it fits her character, she's the God of cunning, so it makes sense she'd be smart enough to at the very least keep an eye on anyone who may be a threat Savathun had contingency plans for her contingency plans that happen after enacting a contingency plan, so she 100% made sure she was safe from nezerac, safe from the witness, safe from Rulk, and even safe from us, sure we "killed" her but her ghost still lives and it's bound to be the case that she comes back

[@bandjunkie131313]

Rule 3 Taniks has no house and will live forever

[@S3Cs4uN8]

@@flamingscar5263 The problem with it is that Bungie has overused the whole 'Savathun was behind it the whole time!' thing, to the detriment of many of their other antagonists and characters either by devaluing their accomplishments, stripping them of agency or just making them look like an utter joke. Like seriously, why should I give a fuck about any of the Witness' Disciples at this point? They're all clearly incompetent jackoffs who get outplayed constantly, and she's already tricked the Witness so he can't be all that smart either.

[@jacobkern2060]

​​​​@@flamingscar5263 Equally as important as her ability to plan things out is how quickly she can adapt on the fly when something goes differently to how she wanted it to

[@DageD214]

Thank you so much for this. I haven’t gotten much time to do reading. It is always good to get lore from bye

[@Killerhub93]

Anyone else feel that. This was the plan. Like when he was sitting there waiting for the attack kinda like counting down. It was always the plan to have him resurrected haha

[@nateknowhowrj858]

I think from how nezerac talks he cannot truly die as in the finality lore tab he says he welcome death but becomes confused in the way he is dying so likely to see he again

[@eddieabrahante4001]

Idk if you'd see this comment, but i have a question/ video suggestion. How are the Tormentors made? Cause if I'm not mistaken? Nezerac was originally Hive was he not? And after being struck by the power of the light, he comes out of his cocoon as a Hive/Tormentor hybrid. So are Tormentors made from both the Light as well as Dark powers? Which may be why they can so easily temporarily disable our light?

[@samkoch1038]

I wonder if this raid is one of those incidents in destiny where it canonically is playable multiple times. We kill him, he comes back, we kill him again.

[@juhovaarala2385]

In your videos about the pyramid ship in savathuns throne world and what the upended does you came to the conclusion that it takes places to a dimension a dimension which is sealed off from the light. And after you complete the lightfall campaign the witness opens a massive portal to the traveler so my quess is that this portal is actually what leads to the dimension that is "sealed from the light"

[@Joel_Montiel]

great lore review!! I will most definitely appreciate the raid more now that I know all of this lore!!

[@666magic]

I may of not played Destiny 2 alot after Forsaken but I'm here for every lore video

[@lando2165]

The hive such as oryx could never die in world that was not their own, so maybe nez has a consciousness that transcends this world, maybe to kill him you have go find his true form, or where his consciousness resides.

[@trainerred1345]

She had killed Nezarec, Trapped Rhulk in his ship and successfully lied and got away with it from The Witness. She's dead, but still I would consider her to be the greatest threat to us outside of The Witness. For all we know her death was just another part of her plan.

[@whiteevropean]

probably lol. She's died plenty times before

[@darmorel549]

I mean, her ghost still out there, so she coming back eventually. And no doubt she had plans for if she failed during the witch queen campaign. Im just curios what they are at this point.

[@IL2TXGunslinger]

Byf, this is some of your very best work. Thank You

[@stoneycooper9758]

Savathun refers to the Traveler as an old friend. (I don't keep up with Lore enough so correct me) but I don't really think she *took* the light. Everyone always thinks our enemies "steal" the light. And yes, sometimes that is their goal. But the Traveler is sentient and has been shown to make its own decisions, not all of which make sense to us. The fact that they have ghosts show the Traveler CHOSE to give them the Light. Unlike with what happened with the Cabal and Ghaul. The Traveler KNOWS she wants to protect it. Yes obviously she wanted the powers of Light. But who wouldn't? The humans, awoken, exos all also want the Light. The desire to have the Light is not what is evil. It is the intentions behind wanting the Light that make it good or evil. Humanity uses the Light to protect the weak and preserve humanity on earth, as well as the Traveler. A good reason. The Witness and its followers want the Light for total control and the end of the universe, without a care for what happens to anything including the Traveler(as well they are long time rivals)and will thus never be freely given the Light. A bad reason. Savathuun may want the Light and yes she may still be not a good guy, but she still had the intellect to PROTECT the Traveler AND the Veil. Knowing that the Witness was a true evil and should never be allowed to achieve its goal. She's so much better of a Villian and has so much more depth than any other villain. And the fact that she fucked up Nezarec is hilarious. On an entirely different note, if Caitl ever dies, she absolutely needs to be given the Light. She deserves it imo.

[@x0lopossum]

12:06 OOOOOOHHHHHH, SO IS THAT WHY HE WAS SO HAPPY WITH US THROUGHOUT THE RAID?

[@Dietghostscp2107]

So. Hopefully someone can help me out. The Revelation in dark glass, finally separates the witness from the voice in the dark for one. That makes sense(inspiral lore.) Even though that's still one hell of a bombshell. What's really getting me is the Brass Gardeners lore. It comes off like it's from the perspective of the undying mind. More than that, I'm having trouble placing the identity of several items within the lore but as I understand that single lore page the Implications are major. That #1 the witness placed the black heart there. #2 the Vex in the garden refer to the anomaly(black heart as basically tainting the balance of the garden. #3 there was a 'majestic thorn' that removes the anomaly which helped to restore the gardens balance. I think the thorn is us. More than just that I think the black garden and sol divisive are tied closer to the voice in the darkness, aka that statue of the female entity we find on the pyramids and in garden of salvation. It's sus AF man.

[@asimovstarling8806]

He may look like on overgrown or outsized scion at first glance, but the large volume of eyes on the insides of his arms, the crystal eyes arranged in a circle on his mouthless head, the wings, the feeding on fear and pain, and specifically on emotion, the deathlessness or the ability to live on even in death without an ascendant world or throne world, the shapeshifting. THe lore has already told us exactly what he is. He is an Ahamkara. Assuming riven was the last is faulty, because as we know, they live on if even a single scrap of bone remains, able to think, feel, scheme, and manipulate those around them.

[@samaron8970]

The head thing makes a lot of sense, and it explains the, as you put it "dad bod", his original body probably was tall and thin as the warlock helm implies, but in remaking the rest of his body, it made changes, if it was designed by the Witness, maybe that's why he looks like Rhulk, since the design might've been based off of him. I also feel that calling it "overwhelming energy" is important, by the end he probably had more raw power than he ever had, but only minuets to adjust to it, if he'd had more time, or we'd faced the original Nezerec with milenia to hone his powers, he could have been one of the most powerful enemies we'd ever face. Finally, I'm all but certain that Savathûn will return, she's imprisoned Rhulk, killed Nezerec and almost destroyed Calus with the Crown of Sorrow, she's almost done as much damage to the Witnesses disciples as we have, she'll probably be the most important ally we could have, makes Mara look like a joke.

[@robertkellerman9526]

Has anyone considered that maybe the warlock that drank Nezerac Cool-Aid might also be a source of problems?

[@Gwynbleidd_117]

The Veil being “the key to the Witness’ plan and the sapid secrets of its first victims” and seemingly being brought to the sol system on Nezarecs pyramid ship rather than being taken from the traveler, are two very interesting points about it.

[@comm154]

Being entirely honest, I really hope Nezarec isn't dead because that would mean there's a chance for a rematch between himself and Savathun, and if that's not the coolest showdown in Destiny I've heard in a while I don't know what is.

[@ozryelvarnis8828]

Questions I want answers too 1) if savathuun was involved in the collapse alongside the witness and nezerac, why was the Oryx family line so intrenched in the Sol system? 2) where was Neomuna when the collapse came? 3) if we had allowed savathuun to take the traveler in witch queen would it have been protected from the witness?

[@XerioZach]

I don't know how Xivu Arath is gonna top her siblings. Oryx was iconic from jump, and Savathun is a gift that keeps on giving.

[@strafe4165]

Okay, so this is highly unlikely. But could you imagine for the final shape raid we fight the true and final shape of all of the witnesses disciples? I think that would be amazing, but I guess we’ll have to wait and see what exactly they do In that raid.

[@Offlian]

Great video. When I heard this raid was "more like a dungeon" I thought "ahhh finally I can get into raiding" lol

[@StreetSeraphim]

4:29 The Veil is referenced as being "the sapid secret of [The Witness's] first victims." Uhhhh any idea what THAT means? Who were the Witness's first victims? It seemingly took the Veil from them, whatever the hell that's supposed to suggest.

[@ratking4414]

Ok so I might be completely wrong because I know they've been pushing that the Witness is the "winoer" (sorry for the spelling). But I'm starting to wonder if it's actually Nezerec, because he states that he was so used to the void and always accepted death and when he "dies" he still exists somewhere in the universe in one shape or another. The choice of the name Witness is also important, I think that the Witness is just that, an observer of the game played between the Gardener/traveler and the Winoer/Nezerec. His goal is to stop the "Game" between these two paracausal entities. The devs also stated that when they came up with the design of the witness, that they wanted him to appear not of the Destiny universe, completely unique. I also believe this theory kinda connects to what the Witness says in the final cutscene of Lightfall when he's speaking to the Traveler

[@CosmicHiker22]

This only furthers my enjoyment of this raid. The lore is absolutely incredible and the vast majority of the player base will never know about any of this. And it's a damn shame.

[@eotwkdp]

Ouch she cursed his remains probably. The pure anger he must of felt as he knew he cannot reform himself anymore with that hive magic stopping him from doing damage to her

[@Jon-mn4on]

the scariest part of this is the fact this proves there might be a way to bring back Taniks

[@mittensfastpaw]

As always thanks for helping to keep us updated!

[@berthein5476]

so TLDR: as we knew for a while now, savathun is the real hero of the destiny frenchise. Good to know. Thats why she got the best campaign and bossfight.

[@chaddermcnadder9895]

i like to think the traveler specifically opened that pyramid so we could get inside easier and kill nezarec again to keep him from causing another collapse in the witness' absence, but at the same time the witness knew and was going to use that to "drink the light". The witness is scary man im surprise savathun was able to kill him 1 time before

[@tsukiortu]

I must say I do like that savathun has become a character shrouded in darkness seeking the light and they had the good idea to design her look after moths as a result

[@DeusExAngelo]

I'm going to wager Savathûn used The Veil to weaken, trap, and "kill" Nezarec. Not unlike how she used the Wellspring and her New Light to trap Rhulk. It would also explain why the Neomuni were suffering Nightmares since the CloudArk is tied to Nezarec specifically. I am surprised no Nightmares actually made an appearance in the Raid with this namesake tho.

[@angryfarfetchd3015]

Can we just acknowledge the line "the sapid secret of it's first victims", being in reference to the veil, Nezarec just told us where the witness found the veil

[@joelbarr1163]

Regarding the heartbeat and incompatibility of Light and Dark: I don't think that the relationship between Light and Dark is of life-death, but physical life and consciousness. This is assuming that Osiris is correct in his musings about strand where he notes that the Light is the domain of the physical, and Darkness is something else, not in opposition.

[@viper0vendalmy794]

@MynameisByf Funny that before Root of Nightmares came out, I spoke to one of my friends about an AU where Savathûn died during the Collapse after both killing Nezarec and defeated Rhulk (right after he ripped out her worm.). Like Savathûn becoming a Guardian prior to D1, which makes for a interesting situation between her and Oryx during the Taken War. Never thought I was right that Savathûn killed Nezarec when we haven't done the raid yet. XD