Destiny 2: The Optimist's Case For Bungie

[@chase5436]

Sony didn't pay $3.6 billion just to throw Bungie in the trash. They'll replace the leadership with their own and watch them closely for a couple years. Sony is only hands off with their first party studios because they've proven themselves with good leadership, games, and profit margins. The Bungie team needs to do the same before they get let back off the leash.

[@shinigamiryan5837]

Them inserting execs would no doubt to straighten out management. Given reports, it seems that leadership has become rotten at the top and has soured everything going down. Sony isn't going to waste the time on leadership, especially if nearly half the board is already theirs and has been observing Bungie from such a position with Bungie's own head being the tie breaker.

[@Wasabi1T]

I was originally against a Sony take over but this reminded me that yes Sony did pay 3.6 billion. It makes sense that Sony wouldn’t fuck up the game

[@SojiFro_0]

Sony makes $82 billion a year. They’ve already brought in a lot of revenue since the acquisition, so it wouldnt be like throwing a suitcase of $3 billion in the trash. It would be a loss, but companies THIS big cut losses annually. Now, they want Bungie to make them loads of money so that’s the priority, but if they estimate that it’s better to scrap them, that’s what they’ll do.

[@Amearie]

Sony isnt hands off with any of their studios. Ironically, bungie was the only studio that is operated under sony hands off. Alot of playstation studios are now having to make live service games and even naughty dog (playstations premiere studio) is micromanaged by sony.

[@Reksrat]

I really hope you’re right

[@FinxOmally]

I 100% believe there needs to be a change in leadership. Axing many members of the team, due to bad calls by management is a complete piss take. If Sony have to come in to kick them out, then so be it.

[@abramkoucheki]

"leadership when asked if them taking pay cuts was ever considered over lay offs, they responded, 'Bungie is not that type of company'". This management time and time again has shown the only thing that matters is their own personal salary. Maybe the "type of company" needs to change. Gotta prioritize your employees well being over your next upgrade to your huge house, or fucking whatever these execs want. Shit disgusts me to my core.

[@905JimRaynor]

Sony will take over and make Destiny2 and Marathon as Sony exclusives. This gives Sony the ability to rationalize cutting the size of the company in half.

[@Cross31415]

Executives get paid to take responsibility, but the moment it's time to actually show said responsibility, the consequences go to everyone else. Executives are parasites.

[@ktdagoat1289]

@@905JimRaynorSonys never lead a successful MP game in their entire history.. People keep acting like it will just become exclusive when truth is Sony sucks at managing anything not 3rd person over the shoulder games.. Bungie will become a support studio if Sony takes over..

[@FLINTZ]

Yeeaahhh... the issue with that is you get some out of touch execs from Sony who aren't invested in the game and decisions would be made in the best interest of Sony itself. Destiny may be dissolved or go exclusive, there could be deeper cuts in budget, Bungie dies and its devs become parts of other dev teams under the Playstation umbrella, etc. It's not necessarily a good thing that Sony execs step in. Sometimes going with the devil you know is the best course of action.

[@BahamutBreaker]

One thing I learned from yesterday’s IGN article is that Hermen Hulst (a Sony employee) is currently one of Bungie’s executive board members, which is apparently split between a few Bungie executives and a few Sony executives. Hulst is a co-founder and former director of Guerrilla Games, who was promoted to head of PlayStation Studios, following the unanticipated success of (then) new IP, Horizon (Zero Dawn). Hulst is a man with lots of AAA gaming studio directing & executive experience, who has a finger on the pulse of what’s currently happening at dozens of studios, around the world. I am not saying Hulst is - or even can be - a savior for Bungie. However, his presence on Bungie’s board tells me that Sony is taking its investment into Bungie very seriously. Per yesterday’s report, Bungie CEO Pete Parsons holds the decisive tiebreaker vote on Bungie’s board. So, Mr. Parsons really is responsible for whether or not Bungie retains its current level of autonomy within the PlayStation Studios ecosystem. If Bungie fails to meet financial goals, and Sony opts to fully takeover Bungie’s board, I do feel confident that the transition will go well. Hulst will have already been observing Bungie, closely, and whether he personally became interim President, or appoints someone he trusts, I feel confident the new President would bring a different set of ideas than Parsons.

[@slickusaf78]

Parsons needs to go.

[@LoftSage]

Honestly, whatever happens- Bungie will have earned it! I stopped playing because I, as a player, was making excuses for them. Excuses I would never accept IRL. I no longer wanted to be partnered with Bungie. I have zero respect left for the company and how they treat their players.

[@dkat1108]

Ya it is hard to get back on this train wreck and support the game now for sure.

[@finefornow_]

neat

[@EatThePath-7]

yep i do hope marathon gets canned. the IP and it's legacy doesn't deserve to be tarnished by some soulless live service extraction shooter

[@gregstar4207]

@@finefornow_oh look a wild Bungie meat rider that will play the game no matter what 😂

[@xxpiweexx2614]

The new player experience is the largest problem. All the Vets might be done with Final Shape but we need to welcome in new people at an affordable price. Oldest DLC's should be free and there should be a $60-100 bundle with the newer content(lets just say 3 years prior to the latest expansion) and the current DLC should be the premium. The current steam listing is an absolute eye sore and probably turns people off to the game before even trying it.

[@EmperorOfMan]

Everything but Final Shape should be free. Only way to maybe entice new or returning players into joining a 7 year old live service game. Get a new base for the future or just shut it down until D3.

[@jacobcollier4223]

Yeah, I've said it many places before, but there are so many menus and fetch quests and frankly kinda pointless stuff to run through in destiny before you even get to the fun part, and that's not even accounting for that fact that they have taken out previous 'fun parts' of the game. As a player, I should be able to log in, and without all that much fuss, get to doing the activity I want to do. If I don't want to take the time to customize stuff, give me passable defaults that can be improved upon. Until I can come back after a hiatus, and quickly get to the fun part, and invite my friends to do the same, Destiny will continue to languish

[@bobdylan1968]

It is undeniable that destiny 2 pvp feels like crap. Theres an insane delay before your shots register. It feels so unresponsive in pvp. Always has. And as someone who sold halo accounts, theyve always struggled with balance. They have a very hard time balancing sandboxes and managing servers.

[@mobious6340]

it’s not our job to worry or fix bungies failing franchise, it’s bungies job to listen to the players and make adjustments and pivot in the direction that it’s audience wants. this is very similar to what we see with marvel and star wars..where the content is just bad and comes off like it’s made by committees. corporations suck the life out of the ip they purchase because corporations are not artists

[@adversary22]

Getting rid of whatever suits at Bungie have been causing this chaos for years is probably our best case scenario.

[@drsaddomia]

Screw the execs! They led to this downfall. Sony needs to hold them accountable.

[@aronhill6353]

Some smaller standalone "Destiny universe stories", single player narrative driven games might help bridge the cost issues, telling variations of stories from the lore - Exo Stranger's adventures in time or Saint XIV in the black garden etc, there's loads of scope for short single player games that they could build with assets that already exist.

[@andrewcrawford8306]

I want a super Grimdark Dead Space style game with a guardian stranded in deep space somewhere

[@fysy9989]

Or some dark age warlord story, or investigations as an agent of the hidden. So many possibilities

[@aronhill6353]

@@fysy9989 absolutely, huge amounts of untapped potential for different storytelling in smaller settings that would in theory be relatively cheap and quick to put together

[@aronhill6353]

@@andrewcrawford8306 great call, i loved the Katabasis story that ran through the Presage exotic mission, something like that would be amazing!

[@Rubies4sale]

I think I’d be even fine with returning to the D1 model where seasons don’t exist and just dlcs drop occasionally. I feel like the resources saved from that would be pretty substantial

[@Jet-ij9zc]

While i somewhat agree, i dont think this will ever happen. Most of their revenue comes from eververse at this point (most players buy dlc/seasons through the legendary edition, so they know almost exactly how much a dlc makes on day one. This means the only reasonable way they could've missed revenue projections is if eververse/event pass sales went down). With the previos model of D1 (1 dlc per year with little to nobcontent drop besides that dlc) the players can buy the dlc, play for a few months then leave until the next dlc. This doesnt work with eververse. The way for them to keep eververse spending high is to make sure the players login often and throughout the whole year. Meaning that removing season and going with dlc only would significantly reduce their revenu

[@GeremyG]

I wanna support this game because I still mostly enjoy it but the monetization has gone completely overboard and upper management sucks.

[@EmperorOfMan]

I never want to hear "support the devs" ever again. Bungie is a for profit company and we pay for what's good and skip what isn;t. Y'all treat games like you are donating to a charity for the homeless.

[@revyrev28]

The devs are the ones that are trying their hardest to give us good content and get rid of the greedy over monetization

[@EmperorOfMan]

@@revyrev28 So we should buy the mtx that the suits want to get them to change their mind about the mtx we just gave them money for. Flawless logic.

[@revyrev28]

Bro what? You seem alil mad I'm just tryna have civil discourse later 🏃🏿‍♂️💨

[@luke2809]

I think if they released a Destiny 3 trailer after final shape, people would not be that excited. Probably best if they were to quietly work on a new Destiny game and announce it in a few years to give everyone some time to rest and play other things.

[@nicholaserwin988]

To be honest other than lightfall I think this is arguably one of their best content years…we’ve had our best dungeons, solid narrative and changes in seasonal activities and return to raid difficulty. The only thing is they need to get new players in and they don’t seem to do that other than during big expansions and they need to fix the new game experience… I can’t recommend this to anyone. But for me as an ongoing player I’m loving it and would like to get other to that point! Even with all the great games this year I still love this game more than ever

[@fysy9989]

For real. Season of the Witch was my favourite season so far. Ghosts of the Deep and Warlord's Ruin have been amazing first time experiences. Lightfall didn't live up to the hype after Witch Queen but wasn't complete trash. It seems to me like everything got better but then the leadership messed up

[@El_Hombre_OG]

„Solid narrative“

[@gregstar4207]

🤣🤣

[@TheCloudCreation]

You mention Genshin gets away with a majorly predatory monetization model, and while yes, that is true, the other side of that spending model is seemingly endless amounts of content. In Destiny 2 we've been doing a variation of the same ritual activity since Season fo Oppulence with Menagerie. Destiny is the epitome of doing the same shit over and over and over and over, yet monetizes themselves as a game that has endless levels of new content to do.

[@customcuber3692]

its also way easier to get into the game as a new player in Genshin (which is saying a lot considering that Genshin has lots of catch up at this point). I don't even recommend Destiny to friends at this point since I don't want to explain that they need like $100 at least to get the full experience and actually play actively with me and my other Destiny friends.

[@dudebruh8534]

Genshin and Fortnite are one of the few games that put their money where their mouths is. When they make 5 billion dollars, they go, "Hey, instead of buying 20 yachts for our leadership, lets put half of the revenue back into the game." Meanwhile you have Bungie and countless other companies that are like, "Hey, lets see if we can make a yacht out of gold."

[@jasonmension3979]

This is the problem with people now adays, I cant believe genshin is even compared to destiny 2. I recently got into destiny 2 and I spent maybe 125$ in total so far and have been having the time of my life, the game has years of content, lightfall is one of the best campaigns I've ever played for gameplay, the second last level where you swing from platforms while killing the boss took me 4 hours to beat and brought back that joy of playing a super hard campaign as a kid, or the new dungeon warlord, when I walked onto that last stage and seen the giant arena, it brought me flash backs of resi 4 when I walked into that final fight and the arena is just massive and you know you're spending the next couple hours grinding this boss. Just it's so much fun and considering most games are 60$ for just a campaign the size of lightfall yet for double that I get dozens of other campaigns to play that I havnet even scratched the surface of, tells me it's at least reasonably priced. Yet when I tried to get into genshin I wanted a specific character and I spent 200$ and didnt get a single good character i wanted I got the same dude with a fking sword 3 times and said fk this game and deleted it after playing the game and finding the gameplay so be absolutely boring, genshib shouldn't even be in the same realm of discussion as destiny!

[@TheCloudCreation]

@@jasonmension3979 I don't want to be "that guy" that just ignores you're entire comment, but you pretty much lost all credibility when saying Lightfall is the best campaign you've ever played. Either you've never played a good game in your entire life, or you're trolling. It's pretty much universally agreed that Lightfall is bad.

[@jasonmension3979]

@@TheCloudCreation why tho? Because everyone hating on it has been spoiled by 10 years of content and are just tired of destiny in general now? I'm a fresh perspective coming in saying they liked it, I get when you have years and years of build up to forsaken which has what I keep hearing is a great story and the death of a beloved character prob fuels you to really get engaged in revenge, but for what lightfall is, its not bad, it's like a side plot or filler that sorta progressing the story, and while yes the story in this condensed plot isn't groud breaking, it's passable and I enjoyed it enough. The real gravy is the gameplay as I stated above, i love campaigns that spend their time teaching you about a mechanic and incorporate it into the fights, that's how most games used to be, they gave you a new ability and you use it throughout the story and than it has a major advantage in the final boss fight and since strand hunter is my fav subclass now I loved the gameplay, I've beaten calus 10 times now just for the fun factor of fighting him, nothing in any game ive played compares to grappling around that arena hitting epic shots on enemies while never touching the ground, so from a pure enjoyment level, it's the most enjoyment I've had inna pve game, now I am bias towards first person shooters now, like I personally dont like souls games now because I dont like 3rd person the same way I did as a kid, and most pve games that are praised now adays are 3rd person like dark souls and god of war but to me and my specific tastes, I found the gameplay of lightfall to be incredibly fun but it's nice that your subjective opinion of a game shapes your opinion of me inna way that makes you discredit my point. Must be a Twitter user eh? 😂

[@MagusTF2]

One thing I've never understood is the talk about these "massive content drops" in Destiny 2. Admittedly, I've only been playing the game for 3 years, but I wouldn't describe the amount of content that Bungie put out as "massive". My comparison (the "gold standard") for live service game updates would be Path of Exile. I know it's not the exactly same monetization model, but the amount of new content every 3 months in path of exile is utterly STAGGERING, especially since their situation (supporting a new project, PoE2, while continuing to push new content in Path of Exile 1) is so comparable. That is not to say that Path of Exile didn't go through reduced scope droughts during the time where full resourcing was being spent on PoE2 development... but when I contrast this to a season with effectively "one" new activity, barebones weekly stories that use the exact same assets or even assets from expansions years ago (lost sectors in dreaming city) it blows my mind that people still talk about how "much" content Bungie puts out.

[@Jet-ij9zc]

They're not massive drops, it's just veteran player's stockholm syndrome acting up. Bungie release 6 or so basic (usually repetitive) missions in re-used maps, add one or two reskined enemies and maybe 10 minutes of cutscene and they act like they just released a full AAA game worth of content.

[@AceInTheSpade]

Even if everything was to turn around. I think I'm just burned out on the franchise itself. Even with the fun activity, The Coil and New Dungeon, I have little to no desire to play right now. More than likley, I'm playing the final shape expansion to finish out the story, and then I'm moving on.

[@jamestheking9816]

I’ve been an advocate of an open world, single-player RPG spinoff in the Destiny universe. That would be very refreshing. Bungie has all the elements to make one. Bosses, exploration, dungeons, loot, mechanics, RPG build elements, etc. I would personally love that.

[@kittenking4840]

Sony has the opportunity to do the funniest thing ever

[@atomic_wait]

Replace the entire board overnight, guardians wake up with a curated roll of Midnight Coup in their Special Deliveries inbox.

[@Phillz91]

Funnily enough, a Destiny 3 will solve one of my biggest issues with the game; the new player experience. Even mobile games know not to be hostile to the player upfront so they become invested and willing to engage with monetization, yet Destiny has needlessly complicated and expensive barriers to access majority of the content so most new players will bounce off before ever considering buying a season or spending in Eververse. (Not a monetization specialist, just an anecdote from a new player than bounced off D2 for the ridiculously bad onboarding)

[@michaelrud4351]

Seems like making a good game and running a good business are two different skill sets. And Bungie has min-maxed

[@Tigerbro6]

right now if you put it in maintenance mode you're killing the game for good. thats a terrible idea. I feel like right now they need to put all hands on deck on final shape to guarantee the revenue stops nosediving. they need a huge win again. now if the out of touch corpos could see half a mile in front of them they would do that and keep their independence without having to ruin how the company feels for every employee.

[@sauceinmyface9302]

This makes me wonder how dependant the game is on eververse. Most players that are really into the game prepurchase stuff like seasons and dungeons via the legendary edition. You can't really refund that stuff once the year has started. Which makes me think revenue misses are due to eververse being way down at the moment, transmog sales being down, or holiday passes being down. That sort of revenue feels extra volatile since whales can just bounce when the game feels stale.

[@videnschaos]

They also said they make a ton of money on the old expansions like shadowkeep still which is why they haven’t dropped the prices on them, I found that super surprising as well

[@SpottedHares]

It’s clear then the dev, you know the one who make the game, can still make great content. But management has failed them and the player bases constantly, if Sony doesn’t do something to clean up management and soon they their 3.6 billion dollar investment could go sour.

[@jasonhernandez730]

A video somewhere on KZbin explains how Bungie ended in this position and dates back to the days when they were together with Microsoft. It was a time when Pete Parsons was not on the hire-ups table, but when he was trying to convince Bungie's old leadership that if they put him in control, he could be the mediator between MS and them. As it turns out, it was a trap for Bungie to be taken over by him and lie to them about not having another position at the time in MS. He's a snake in the grass hiding in plain sight, and as it turns out the article pointed out a big major key factor that everyone in the exec's table except for him are ok with the takeover from Sony. So as you can see he is the problem causing it.

[@jakedrago7805]

Sounds interesting…If you find the video could you post the link

[@djstraylight]

To use a car analogy, the Bungie Execs have blown out the transmission of company and they don't know how to fix it. The engine (the employees) are working just fine. Sony should replace the board and all the C level execs. Especially after that "we aren't that kind of company" comment to cutting executive compensation. New execs put together a plan and timeframe they present to Sony. I hear that Emmett Shear (Former CEO of Twitch) is looking help companies. Maybe hire back key people like some iconic composers.

[@iamredoctober]

If they did go into a maintenance mode, it would be wise to unvault everything included "retired" content: seals, seasons, etc and appeal to the completions out there. They could create the occasional battle pass, season to keep the game afloat. They also desperately need to streamline the entry point. Newer and more players always have a chance of spending money.

[@tonyred5166]

I have been saying from the start of this whole drama… we complain about the handling of the game, and yet when there are layoffs due to the game failing, we act like the leadership and devs that were let go were simply making only the good parts of the game lol. New leadership structure and less voices to muddle the direction is a GOOD thing in many cases. It’s unfortunate for those who get let go, but let’s be real here, more releases like Lightfall and none of them would have a job anyways.

[@somemeatball368]

Listen to the kinds of things upper management has been saying, though. Some of the devs might have been problems, yes, but if you can look at the kind of leadership decisions that have been coming out of upper management and not see that as a main, consistent source of controversy and baffling decision-making, then that is absolutely wild.

[@acnash27]

Kind of crazy that Destiny 2 used to be held up as one of the original service games that started the trend and that newer games were trying to imitate. Now it's literally going down in flames. Maybe after the fall of Destiny we'll see a drop off in the amount of live service dogshit that studios are releasing these days, since Destiny's success is probably what led a lot of them down that path.

[@mohdamin6641]

tbh we all knew this day will come the meme that bungie is the only destiny killer was and always has been a fact D2 can neve truly die unless bungie suht down the game themselves or through bad choices there will be a fireteam somewhere in the world doing a raid

[@jmaj922]

I think 3 big things need to happen to save destiny. 1 change of leadership is a must, 2 make content designed to stay in the game indefinitely, and 3 an eververse overhaul and the removal of the paid event cards

[@finefornow_]

lol who gives a fuck about the event cards? It's a fine, optional source of revenue. They're allowed to do that. A restructure of events, sure, but the cards really aren't the issue in any way whatsoever.

[@jmaj922]

@sneakyt666 that's because they're expected now, they used to not exist at all and the monetization was through eververse during those events. But after paying for DLC, paying for dungeons, and also paying for seasons that don't stick around so new players have no way to experience the whole story. Trying to shoehorn in another $10 thing never really felt good since if money was gonna be spent, armor, emotes, and weapon ornaments have a much higher appeal than a shader and some mid exotic stuff compared to what eververse has. I bundled the 2 together, because if they focused on making some really banger silver only items and then do shaders and other good but not S tier stuff for brightdust and keep the event armor sets available with both, eververse might have a shot at drawing more attention to a wider audience instead of glancing at 2 screens at reset and then whenever you get an eververse engram. I admittedly spent about 50 when it came out in year 2 of D1 and that's because I actually enjoyed the emotes and stuff they offered.

[@hey_its_travis]

I'd love for the actual people responsible for the state of the game is in to be forced out. If you made the decision you should have to deal with outcome. Sony spent to much money to throw it away. Bungie itself seems to live or die on FS and marathon.

[@_Giratina_]

"What would destiny look like in maintenance mode" My brother in light. Look around you 😂

[@wat146]

Halo and Destiny devs who got them to this point are no longer there. Marathon I’m in the camp that thinks it’s going to just be ok. Definitely not the lifesaver for Bungie. D2 is probably done, and I want the upper management gone regardless.

[@user-wo5dm8ci1g]

Where did they go? Do you have specifics?

[@christopherha27]

Still one of the best intros I've ever seen for a youtube content creator 👏

[@hey_its_travis]

And he wanted to get rid of it when he started using it.

[@vincentcampbell8314]

Honestly, if Sony replaces everyone aside from Joe, then I feel it'd make everything much better. We need people who could see eye to eye with the actual game devs.

[@thedarkgenious7967]

I'm rooting for the current board getting burned by Sony and replaced with either Sony people who listen to the devs, or the pie-in-the-sky hope of internal promotions from within the devs we know have been fighting the current management to make the game better. I just hope that the death throes of the Execs who've been driving the game towards that cliff don't take it off entirely.

[@quentinb734]

paul please just stop 😂 this is all bungies fault WE ARE TIRED

[@Trakan1]

I don't agree that Bungie pumps out a lot of content in seasons. Seasons are barebones IMO and nowadays are reused/reissued guns, reused old lost sectors, etc. The MMO subscription comparison doesn't really make sense. Bungie gets $100 a year for the expansion and seasons while FFXIV has a much cheaper expansion (which also includes all previous expansions) and you can binge the content as much or as little at a time as you want. You can wait and beat the whole thing in 1 month for a much cheaper total overall. Bungie also has WAY more microtransactions and their entire model is basically to stick everything cool into eververse while MMOs do not.

[@Artifex_Prudens]

i dont want them to survive with how they are, how they are is so supremely boring and stagnant. i dont want to play Destiny 2 for another ten years. i want INNOVATION.

[@Makiyura]

So play something else!

[@cordovalark5295]

@@Makiyura That's the problem. Majority of people are; Bungie are now in trouble as a result of their own making.

[@shovelmmhh]

​@@Makiyurawhy don't you lose you're virginity. B4 trying to join grownup talk

[@buckaroobanzai2551]

Agreed. I would love a complete revamp of their upper mgmt.

[@armedhyde1448]

Exactly! If current Destiny survives it just means more stagnation and less innovation.

[@michaelchesnut865]

Joe Blackburn coming out after the state of the game and saying, "I'm sorry, here is how we are going to fix things" did wonders for establishing good will. I was at least willing to see where things went after that. But with the future of the game in jeopardy, I'm not going to spend money on armor sets I will likely never use. I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way. Sony obviously wants to make their money back on their investment. Dissolving the company just won't do that. The best thing they can do is try to establish some of that good will, and hopefully listen to the devs more than current management.

[@TheXeroLink]

I’m trying to understand this. I think we all want the live model to go away and the content to be substantial and yearly.

[@snappa_tv]

I trust Sony executives more than bungies executives. So far Sony executives have shown they are not absolutely awful and have made some really good single player games. I believe if they take over this care will transfer over

[@Amearie]

They cant make multiplayer tho, the whole point of the bungie aquistion was to help them with multiplayer.

[@coltrag]

What if Destiny became a Subscription model for $15 a month? You get every DLC, dungeons, battle passes plus some extra features. maybe like another 5 loadout slots, free transmog mats every month, etc. I hate even suggesting it but it would also help being new players in. Instead of buying $100s of dollars in DLC it’s a $15 price tag to jump into everything Destiny has to offer.

[@veryoriginal2773]

The talk around direct Sony takeover is getting out of hand. They didn’t spend billions of dollars for a support studio. If they didn’t believe in the Destiny IP they never would have made the purchase. I am hoping they directly take over Bungie and disband their board. It is clear that the studio needs new oversight. Years of squeezing dollars out of existing players without the investment to bring in new players is a primary reason for their current financial problems. Every person I have tried to introduce the game (“free to play”) to becomes disinterested within the first couple of weeks and never plays again.

[@jonathonshirley4169]

*sees video about destiny optimism* -we don’t do that here

[@M0mzSpagheti]

Once management kicks rocks I’ll play again.

[@luanandradegaetti8784]

8:55 Season content is sizeable? Bruh season content is just mods, literally mods( and that would be ofensive to modders cuz 99% of them dont make you pay for it), no new enemies, no new mechanics, reused mechanics, a fuckin stupid 2 in game cutscenes budget, the characters beats are just fuckin dialogue!!!! ( this aint no audio book dude) we need to see the emotion! The only, truly, new thing we got with last seasons are good ideias and beautiful settings

[@maciejskwara9752]

Activision knew how to run it. DLC`s and nothing in between in there. I still remember 1`st D1 dlc - story done in 2 hours. 2`nd DLc - story done in 2 hours. Imago loop or grasp made me logging everyday. Then . Not now.

[@mxrandolph4539]

Why would it be bad for sony to control bungie? Sony's first party games flourish, but sony does not spare the rod.

[@Bielbo]

For starters they need to reduce the ENTIRE store prices to 50% less permanently. This won't fix the problem but it will add more cash flow. They need to change their model to the Elder Scrolls Online model where you get all the content and expansions included with your expansion and you buy the next one each time. That's a start... Finally... Sack the board members they seem to be holding the company back and bring some good veterans in to run the company.

[@Pmsyphon]

My main concern with Marathon is the cheater situation they have struggled with in Destiny. A similar game was The Cycle Frontier which had an amazing launch but literally died due to their delay in addressing cheaters. Hopefully it doesn't have a similar fate.

[@spawnofapathy]

I don’t think Sony would kill Bungie outright. The studio name is too valuable. I think at worst they will trim the company down to the size they need to make a new single player focused sci-fi FPS franchise, maybe with a modest MP that can grow if it takes off. So Sony can have its own Halo/COD. At this point Sony can shutter Marathon and D2, because it wasn’t their money that funded them. They can just hit a reset button at the studio and switch them into a different direction Sony wants. This is not uncommon after mergers/buy outs. All existing work on current and future projects the company already had going just stops to work on what the new parent company wants.

[@ezegaming2115]

Biggest issue is going to be returning players and new players. Returning players can onboard easily, so maybe, just maybe, they buy Final Shape. New players I seriously doubt come to play Final Shape. Getting into D2 as a new player is just taxing and having to spend all the money to play everything is crazy too. I’d have to check, but I don’t think there are too many more bangers coming out between the release, so that’s a benefit for Bungie. But 6 month season, player base is going down naturally, bad press, going down even more. Can the current player base keep this game afloat?? I’ll finish the season pass because I paid for it, get the story content done, then I’m out until the Final Shape drops.

[@daneger3210]

Exactly bro I convinced my best bud to play. He did free to play lasted a month he said I just ended up doing strikes I was like ya I can do them for a day I’m done. Also did old campaign finished it said now what. Crucible strikes lol gambit. Crucible he pretty well cried. Strikes we tried nightfalls master was to tough. For me master to easy but I never thought of a new player

[@jfern0927]

The way i see it i feel like bungie is aiming for the newer players more so then the veteran players. Majority of the veteran players have jumped ship, including myself. Played D1 since launch and aswell as D2. Never did i imagine seeing the game fall this low. Ofcourse it had its down/bad times but never to this extent. From the horrible meta to the overall feel of the game, its just very difficult to maintain an interest to log in and play.

[@ezegaming2115]

@@jfern0927 all facts.

[@lllwarchildlll]

So I guess you’ve never seen someone buy a building and demolish it to build a better one huh? Bungie deserves to be demolished. And Sony knows they can build a better company from it by demolishing it and keeping what is salvageable. That wouldn’t be the management btw.

[@coledownlow3604]

There's a whole lot of doom and gloom about this but I think the best case scenario is Sony dissolves the bungie board. Whatever happens after that is up for grabs but those suits need to go for sure.

[@Curleewith2Es]

I would try to white knuckle through The Final Shape and the final episodes. Then, Destiny 2 Legacy, where they keep the servers live, use battle passes and eververse to drive an annual pass. Then rotate through the entire saga from start to finish, using seasons as weekly or monthly rotators giving new players a chance to play from the Red War to Final Shape. Add ornament tokens to raids and dungeons to spiff up the armor and weapons the way they did in Age of Triumph. It would give those of us that go away from the game for periods of time a chance to play seasons we missed on a weekly timeline rather than months of boring destiny chores. They could run the entire saga for pennys on the dollar for enough time to develop new projects.

[@Baradiele]

Last time I checked, FF14 subscription was 14 bucks per month, 11 if you get the annual subscription. So, on that side, the 100 bucks expansion per year is more or less the same. Never played FF14, but I suppose there are microtransactions there as well. But I know they also never deleted parts of the game...

[@donaldellis8116]

Can somebody please talk about the elephant in the room here? A HUGE part of new player fallout is the irrationally negative toxic community this game and many many other games have. There is NOTHING that Sony and or Bungie could possibly do that will change this. It amazes me that there is so many people that thrive on negativity instead of simply moving on and letting new life into the game and letting other people make their own decisions on the game instead of being pounded over the head with other people’s negativity and irrational emotionally driven stance on the game. I as a new player enjoy the game but I am fed up with all the sour pusses that refuse to just move on and take their negative vibes with them. Yes there are issues with the game, but there are issues with EVERY game and burning the world down over them is beyond ridiculous and irrational. It’s just a game folks, if you’re not happy with it simply find something else you’re happy with! Easy peasy! I wish content creators could find away to talk about the game issues and leave out the community crap for views. Stop feeding the fire. As a new player the game is amazing but the Karen’s got a go!

[@HowdyHowdy_]

Destiny as a franchise and Bungie as a studio both I think would benefit from an induced life support coma. Go dark, reflect, restructure, regroup, reorganize and make a D3 ground up that everyone wants and resurface in however many years with banger new games and content. But as of now, the Destiny IP and Bungies reputation have been run through so much mud their best option is to try anew after some time away.

[@adarkwind4712]

The studio will literally die.

[@Grayves_X]

I think they should do that after Marathon releases. Hopefully Marathon does well so they can let Destiny breath for a while. But I think if they were gone for more than 3 years, with the current sentiment, the IP wouldn't bounce back. Luckily due to Marathon the engine will have been updated very recently, so that will speed up development of D3

[@ChurchofCaboose]

I think the answer is to let us earn these ornaments in game. Then we will be more willing to spend some money. I don't wanna spend a ton of money on ornaments but I'd maybe spend a little

[@KB-ql8cx]

I haven’t played for months signed in to do the story, tried the seasonal activity and then bounced. I just can’t see a point in playing. It’s just the same over and over and over again. IMO they need to change their gameplay loop

[@scarixix]

Transmog should be free and I would not play "Destiny 2" if I got into it now due to current prices. Been playing since D1 beta so have been around for full ride. Feel like consumers now are in a weird abusive relationship. People do not have $$$ once had so projecting 45 % above where world is at now was poor choice.

[@michaellee2478]

The biggest problem Bungie has right now is new players. The OGs are increasingly moving away from the game because life, and D2 is terrible at bringing in fresh players. The new light experience has been terrible and EXPENSIVE and confusing FOR YEARS. Until they figure that out, we'll continue to see a decline.

[@seanrogers4948]

This is a great video and very insightful. Business is business and sometimes changes have to happen, even if the people costs are high. I expect them to flourish given what we've heard about conditions.

[@paul_tassi]

thank you!

[@Djslacks]

I think in a perfect world final shape comes and it’s really good and the 3 episodes are also really good and after that D2 is over and marathon comes out soonish and in between marathon and D3 we have destiny spinnoff games about side characters from the lore. I think that would be a ideal future for bungie and Sony but I doubt they’ll do that.

[@Wasabi1T]

Live service games work. Just not the way Destiny is doing it, they need a Destiny 3, they need a big refresh. You cant have a live service game that lasts 10 years, it gets to old. They have the live service strategy down but they are missing the fact that game companies make sequels for a reason.

[@ivory867]

Live service games are watered down MMOs

[@dreadafk]

I wonder if switching from a paid expansion to a subscription model would help. You can either buy the expansion or pay a subscription and get the expansions at no extra cost, Maybe subscription players get monthly cosmetic bonuses or something as a way to entice people. Make the subscription $10 a month and maybe make it so you could buy a year for $100. I dont know if this would generally increase revenue but it would atleast make money moe consistent for them. I dunno.

[@nobeliumnobe]

@JTKing77finally fantasy is on PlayStation and is coming or is already out on Xbox?

[@velar25]

For now, i'm really curious about Bungie's future post the final shape

[@LastNameInTown]

I find this sadly hilarious. I have called out Pete since 2019 and I was hated on, mocked, trashed and called every horrible name by the "community" who now seem to have NEEDED layoffs to actually look at the company. I know 1st hand how disgusting Pete and (the succubus) Danielle, the CFO were. I lost in game friends for calling out how D2 has 4 revenue streams while Content creators make MONEY FROM IT!!!! That is a sad world. Trust a person on the screen who benefits regardless but hate on someone who clearly has information that was not public at the time. It was on this channel and Aztecross that I got the most hate on and now look. Irony. Also just for funsies, look up Pete Parsons approval rating and limit the search so it excludes the timeline with the layoffs. You will see how the CEO of Bungie had a 35% approval rating FROM STAFF! I hope the devs find a better home.. I really do.. It ain't going to be at Bungie while those people run it.

[@redactedredacted8107]

The Tass Master has spoken

[@jaguargod3483]

It is going to take Sony taking over to get rid of Bungie’s upper management. They are the problem and they won’t even take a pay cut for their failure.

[@insomniaddictesp]

The thing I wonder about is, if it took three studios to make forsaken, how are they now able to make these other games, have hired so many more people, but they’re not invested in making forsaken level content.

[@arminkozek1921]

Thank you for the change of perspective

[@mikhailfedyszyn2263]

Honestly, Bungie's legacy has worn off. I wouldn't be mad at Sony if they dissolved Bungie- at least we still have the good things they made, because god knows they aren't making nearly anything like that in the modern day. Final Shape, as unrealistic as it sounds, better be the best fucking expansion to anything ever. That's the hole Bungie dug themselves. Either way, we get either: Bungie wins, keeps making mid/less shitty games because their "don't overdeliver" mantra will have officially succeeded; Bungie loses, gets dissolved, and we're no longer subjected to the endless empty promise that is Destiny.

[@TumbleSteed]

I’d rather take the gamble of Sony running bungie cause I doubt it could get worse in their hands.

[@DoctorPhilGud]

Paul, you do realize that, now that you said "that would be a nightmare scenario" that now thats whats going to happen. The past 4 years the whole world has been nothing but nightmare scenarios.

[@tonycGAMES]

Good points here about the Bungie situation and its possible future. The blaming game is over and the community is now united against the leadership at Bungie. It's interesting that Bungie is now reading the Bungie Forum and is responding to some player criticism - last week's Nightfall had a ridiculous overcharged difficulty level but was eventually replaced; The new Iron Banner Tribute was angrily received and should've been in Labs before release but has been replaced with Control.

[@loganb9185]

Idk how well seasons sell, but I’ve noticed just how awful the rewards from the season pass are when you compare them to things like fortnite. You essentially get ONE set of cosmetic armor options, and an exotic weapon that they give you twice. Character customization is such a basic thing to rope in new players yet it’s almost impossible for them to do when they start playing.

[@wilkinstothemoon]

I don't think leadership are the heart and soul of Bungie...it's the amazing team that creates the game I love. I wouldn't mind a Sony board if the same developers stay.

[@joshuatheargonaut4412]

I’ve rode this train for to long to stop now. I want to see this to the end. Despite it all I am heavily invested into this story arc. It would be like reading a book series only to stop on the last book. I’m with ya. I’m here until the lights go out

[@ladykryo4592]

I hope bungie survives, but with a complete swap of their execs. The current execs have got to go

[@Legbas_Ear]

I think the Destiny universe is dope, but rather than a live servise model for a Destiny 3, i'd love to see a 3rd (or even 1st) person shooter in the vein of a Remnant 2... I'd be willing to pay for a Bungie-iterated, Dark-Souls-with-guns style game, something of the calibur of a Remnant mixed with Jedi Fallen Order. A focused, narrative-driven, planet-hopping experience that curates and leans into some the best aspecets of Destiny: Captivating lore, awesome gunplay and movement, imaginative weapons, and beautiful set pieces. I don't think Destiny NEEDS to continue being a live service to be successful. And as someone who enjoys gaming as a hobby, but is getting to a stage in life where ill likely spend less time doing it, a single player (with option for cooperative play) would be cool to see, and ideal

[@lucasbosier6808]

When the layoffs happened that was like getting curb stomped, it hurt like a mfer but there was still a chance to get up but that article was like 40 kicks to the stomach while we were down.

[@ninjaone5595]

I know we don’t know a lot about marathon, but I just don’t understand why anybody from Bungie or for that matter, anybody who plays Destiny 2 is interested in an extraction, looter shooter that was the worst part of division franchise. It’s extremely toxic environment and to say that’s going to be a live service game as an extraction looter shooter just doesn’t sound logic.

[@Damomonopolos]

And of all the things they do, they make solo play far less friendly. Like if your friends stop playing, or you were never playing with friends originally, now its getting progressively worse

[@koizumiizumi5426]

Bungie Leadership has not only screwed over Destiny 2 and the entire Destiny2DevTeam, but also Sony with their bad Decisions. I absolutely despise whoever is in Bungie Leadership, while Joe Blackburn has been such a beacon of hope, as he's clawed back any community sentiment with, and then there the D2Team account, Thank You to whoever is running that account now, as thats the ebst and most well recieved communication we've seen in a long time

[@lifeforms7423]

I started in the D1 beta way back when and played religiously until Forsaken. The game just lost its sparkle for me. I try and come back every now and then because the core gameplay is still really sharp and fluid, but I can't bring myself to play for longer than a few days. Everything eventually gets stale.

[@EmperorOfMan]

Destiny had a great run but the current game is like the guy hanging out at the bar after last call still trying to get laid. It's over. Marathon is a trend chasing dead game walking and until they get D3 Bungie will keep bleeding cash.

[@GOOBERHUBBY]

I hope sony takes over. Bungie has failed big time. Bungie is the only studio that I know that takes content out ofnthe game, and thinks its ok. Sony can you add everything back into destiny 2 that bungie took out please

[@rainsnakergaming1696]

There decisions have led to low player retention i used to play all the time now i cant be bothered to get past the menu been enjoying watching this season unfold on youtube instead of grinding activitys eather brain numbing easy or difficult and fun but your forced to use specfic builds bungie is forcing that season

[@slickusaf78]

You have the right mindset to look forward. Sony is not looking good for the past two quarters while making great games, BUT the lost massive revenue in Bungie due to overvaluation of the company. Sony has a huge vested interest in the future of Destiny; not just for the game, but for the lore potential for future media content and merchandising. The most egregious factor that is causing Destiny's declining player base is the bad decisions of leadership with no accountability. And it may be time to find new leaders are willing to listen to the community and their devs. This will remain to be seen.. but will not expect it. Without the community, there is no revenue... "Gentlemen, it has been an honor.."

[@FlashesSoccer011]

They should just go back to how it was in D1. Major expansion once a year, and support it with small updates a long the way. There was no reason to change it.

[@bells5385]

I think that’s the problem if things don’t change that’s all they will do is just survive. That’s such a low bar.

[@MarshalN]

Thing is D2 wants their cake and eat it too. I never got into it because the game costs money and also wants you to pay for an endless stream of expansions, none of which is free. Then it sells content to you in bits and pieces not to mention then taking away stuff you paid for with the vault. What other game does that? Its nuts

[@godqwark]

I would be ok if they dropped the seasons to focus on crucible, gambit, and strikes. Give me a monthly subscription and make the core of the game great.

[@jaredkain-woods6682]

Breath of fresh air to have a major D2 creator not be all doom and gloom. Hopefully somewhere in the middle will happen.

[@synchacker25]

Love seeing a new paul tassi vid pop up. Keep it goin bro 💯

[@br1m1598]

Great thumbnail choice

[@StrangeChickandPuppo]

I think Marathon needs to halt production, and put all of that team into D2. That entire detour was a bad idea *especially* with how awful the current D2 community attitude is toward Bungle's PVP reputation. Bungle has notoriously *lacked* attention to PVP, and for them to be making a PVP game would be like asking Dude Perfect to make a tutorial on reading a book quietly in the library.

[@gun2334trx]

Bungie is 1/4 of making good expansions since going independant. I'm not convinced that just because they say they want The Final Shape to be Taken King/Forsaken level dosent mean it will.