YOU CAN'T TREAT BLACK KIDS LIKE THIS! Destiny Debates A Leftist

[@destiny]

WALK IT BACK! Destiny Gets Into An INTENSE Music Debate w/ Zheanna ft. LonerBox ►kzbin.info/www/bejne/nYOlYp-CjNqff8U

[@desert_druid_xD]

FINALLY A GOOD INTRO

[@jhangzhou1762]

24:01 you're correct. Scientifically speaking, men and women do have hardwired emotional differences and psychological differences, but in terms of race, they are quite negligible.

[@jhangzhou1762]

I'm slowly starting to like this left wing Channel...

[@makaisenki]

War of the worlds is one of the worst movies ever. It only probably has a 70+% rating because Christians are stupid and probably loved that ass pull ending. Also, race is what we should call a variation. Like I have orange cat, and a tabby they are siblings. I have a mostly black cat with white highlights and a mostly white cat with black spots, also siblings. I prefer to call racism ethnicism because racism acts like we are separate races. We are the human race. I feel like the first step to ending racism is realizing we are pretty much all children of Africa. Racism mostly ended with cro-magnon and neanderthals. We need to get over ourselves. Am I as an Irish person inferior because pain pills don't effect me as much?

[@linyenchin6773]

@@jhangzhou1762 "negligible" like west african v.s east african musculoskeletal systems? We all know one of the two is specialized for long distance running and the other for sprinting. Both tribes~peoples dominate thdur resoective body type's ability on the global scale of competition(with us Jamaican-born and the U.S blacks being west african tribes with specific gene mutation for being the very best of all west african tribes in sprinting). *Non negligible differences in attributes and aptitude are real,* we all know pure asians(excluding Russians and non Yogi browns) are well known for having the most flexible~limber ligaments among all peoples or as you wrongly call them "races."

[@willy_b_coyote]

I love how progressives try so hard to be against racism that they end up saying flagrantly racist shit.

[@randybobandy9828]

Most of the time*

[@More_Row]

Ah so you've noticed they aren't against racism.

[@karimshebeika8010]

I think this mostly has to do with the american notion of race and ethnicity. The USA has such a specific and internatilized history and culture with regard to race as a social category that it sometimes becomes hard to look at the system "from the outside"

[@intboom]

You're using the old liberal definition of "racism" there, and not the way it's used by the people who believe in the bizarre Manichean war in heaven that underpins intersectional social justice.

[@Dino2GunZ]

Because they are racist and only see race

[@galaxyking94]

As a black person i learned math through crack selling, basketball and how many pieces of chicken were available. I never thought this thread would do so good lol. Should I be worried

[@CrestOfArtorias]

Y'all take the chicken and divide it between the homies, except Latrel, cause he whack, how many pieces of chicken you got? I am making a joke but I cannot imagine how frustrating this has to be to a black person.

[@galaxyking94]

@@CrestOfArtorias hearing how there is a book on this is ridiculous.

[@soulfireclash2882]

There are 0 remainders when dividing them gizzards between the household. Trus me! Also keep the oven open for 2.75 hours if the studio apartment with your 5 siblings and 3 cousins that live there need that 100 square feet to be at a toasty 72 degrees for at least 2 hours. That how me and the fam learned Maff Matics son.

[@beanybabyrabie]

Don’t forget the watermelons at the market!

[@AmstradExin]

The world is a sad and depressing place. Comments like these give me some hope.

[@reezlaw]

I'm 100% with Destiny on this one, saying that black student have special "learning needs" is ridiculously racist. The so-called progressives that push these ideas are overflowing with racism of low expectations

[@WillmobilePlus]

It is literally alt-right positions, simply reworded! The only thing he didn't get into is calling the problem genetic!

[@gamingwhilebroken2355]

Whenever the world “special” is used to describe someone, it’s probably going to be insulting

[@humpyloaddart]

This is the pervasive crt attempting to be brought to schools that james Lindsay has been detailing for years now.

[@DJWolford]

The most incredible part for me is that, even if you fully understand the nuance and phrases - it’s still is fucking insane Very few things are like that

[@ExeErdna]

Since overall it isn't race it's gender, boys at times want to be hand on. Teach math in a different way than sit down, shut up, and drill the numbers in their head like they're Mason from Black Ops

[@MrCovi2955]

This entire conversation, for almost 2 hours straight, can be summarized as: "I think black people learn differently and that's why we need ethnomathmatics" "Give me an example of how they learn differently" "I have no idea. What about this alternative method of teaching that applies to all people and has nothing to do with race?" "That has nothing to do with race. I think that idea is good. But give me an example of how they learn differently" "I have no idea. But what about this alternative method...."

[@JL_____]

Thank you for saving me 2 hours lol

[@theprophet9428]

Wish it was a bit more entertaining than this

[@TheMakersRage]

Basically dancing around the idea that certain racial groups just don't learn like others. What if black brains are different? But no one wants to even entertain that question.

[@tomraineofmagigor3499]

If you’re going to talk about people learning differently men and women actually do learn differently

[@JohnDoe-ne1ni]

Can we just admit black culture is toxic? I used to disagree with the religious black ladies in the 90s who were against rap. They were right rap is highly toxic it ruined a generation ffs what more info do u need on it?

[@AHaptism003]

This guy is unreal "Asians are better at math because of specialized skills" bro it's called consistent and determined study

[@okbye4552]

go raiders!

[@Goulash45]

Parental support and structure. Asian kids without tiger parents don’t do as well.

[@tree12341]

It's so annoying. There is no shortcut to learning math. No secret strategies. It's just a straight up grind. It's such an insult to say we just have some strategy that makes us better and not hard work.

[@ExeErdna]

@@Bucky147 It's isn't simply laziness, it's method of application and pattern recognition. Some people are blind to patterns or trying some new. That's how you have "Souls" players bashing their head versus bosses for hours getting angry. Some people aren't lazy they just want to make sure their method works even if it is objective insanity. That's why math doesn't click for some people

[@JAN0L]

@@tree12341 Some people don't need to grind though, and some people fail despite grinding.

[@Sprax6]

As a black man with a CS degree and minor in Math: this is the most ridiculous document I've ever seen. In what way do black kids need to be taught differently then other kids. CRT fails with me is when it says that race is the problem kids can't learn. The reason most black kids suffer in school is due to their circumstances in life and not because racism permeates through mathematics.

[@kc_h7h]

It has everything to do with culture not race. Nigerians in America are likely to be high educated and have a high income, while with afro americans its the opposite

[@natel7151]

A lot of this is making excuses for the Teacher's union and people who give up on Black children. It gives them cover. A lot of this is people who do not want to improve the lives of Black children, and using "antiracism" as their explanation when they are the ones creating an even bigger racial divide. Instead of expecting lower educational performance and teaching to a lower standard for Black children, we need to expect more and better... because you know and I know that Black children can do the math (just look at African immigrant children who absolutely clean up when it comes to college admissions and standardized testing). Expect more! Enough with the soft bigotry of low expectations... it's still bigotry, no matter how nice it sounds to the Progressive idiots who push these ideas.

[@mlghaxx1421]

"CRT fails with me is when it says that race is the problem kids can't learn" Does CRT really say this? I thought it was about systemic racism, not race itself.

[@sonofatlas1372]

@@kc_h7hyeah but you leave out that our country (USA) cherry picks their immigrants the intelligent ones are only accepted or they have to work a crap career the reason immigrants push education so much is not for prestige in the country but because it's an requirement to stay here that's it. You can look this up but you kids gotta start traveling that’s all I have to say.

[@kc_h7h]

@@sonofatlas1372 yea ofcourse they are under circumstances where they are kinda forced to make it. But my point is, if they can do it why can't afro Americans? It's definitely culture

[@azurelord64]

“Math is racist! How will black kids ever handle it?!” Me a black guy with a masters in mechanical engineering: “My mind is an enigma”

[@ArisenMind]

I'm black as well however, generally speaking, there's a huge divide in how quickly blacks acclimate and learn math and other topics to the degree that other ethnic groups do. Unless there's some sort of data out there that you have access to that I don't. I'm not meaning just American blacks but well, everywhere. Unfortunately, predominately black/african communities/nations/countries lag behind in almost every metric.

[@jordangreene8125]

I’m an Accounting and business analytics major who had to take Business stats 3 and do math on a daily basis idk how I’m going to survive 😊

[@reiggier9211]

@@ArisenMind couldn't this be due to culture/historical reasons rather than just race?

[@cynicalgothbrit2352]

As long as you can stand my cracker ass teach me your ways oh enigmatic one!

[@dumbdoop1909]

@thehappyhuman no they don't stop lying

[@CatacombD]

"Black people need to learn differently than white people." "How?" "I have no idea, cannot come up with any examples, and also don't fully understand the concept itself, but I am also somehow certain that it's true."

[@dodumichalcevski]

He is the prime example for his own claim

[@channel_no_longer_active]

"Best argument against democracy is listening to a politically active person on a KZbin stream" - Winston Churchill

[@Panguman]

so true!

[@frorencenightingale1217]

"No cap, fr fr" - Abraham Lincoln

[@cdubbau135]

"On God." -Sun Tzu

[@bobzombie2710]

"Word." - Ghandi

[@red2theelectricboogaloo961]

"my boy on some real shit out here." -George Washington

[@NickLengyel]

Thinking you're bad at math because of your skin colour is probably the most American thing I've seen this year

[@erikshure360]

race != skin color

[@jordangreene8125]

Nobody actually believes this…

[@reezlaw]

For real

[@pariah_carey]

Wokeists aren’t Americans. They hate America.

[@Wulfieman]

This isn't something new unfortunately as this idiotic idea has been thrown around for years, the only difference is that now twitter and tiktok experts are talking about it openly.

[@SpoogySock]

This was one of the weirdest, most racist debates I’ve seen this year so far. The worst part is, I think radical doesn’t even knows he’s being racist and legitimately thinks he’s being anti-racist. Biggest of yikes

[@RS-fy9hb]

I'm afraid that he's painfully aware of it when Destiny says to him how it looks, when he's reading those sentences, but it's like sunken cost fallacy, where he's invested so much time into this one bad textbook, where he's just grasping at any and everything he can find to justify why teachers should find this useful. He's trying to carefully walk the line of not making it racist, but he's not really coming up with any concrete examples where this could be applied. But fuck me, that algebra and learning mathematics linearly killed my brain... How the fuck is it so hard to understand that you can make use of a concept, before learning how you manipulate the elemts that this concept introduced. Geometry uses algebra, but you don't need to understand the more complex of manipulating algebraic equations, just to be able to switch around a few elements in geometric equations.

[@Paputsza]

@@RS-fy9hb he's just trying to debate. He just picked a card and he's doing his best.

[@Vin_Venture896]

I honestly got the vibe that about halfway in he realised that the shit he was saying was no different to race realist stuff but emotionally he just felt it HAD to be different so he kept going lmao

[@woobilicious.]

This is why people should just stick to non-racism.

[@williamking256]

@@Vin_Venture896 I never knew the sunken cost fallacy could be applied to racist beliefs.

[@doom2alien]

This is like a paradox. You are so anti-racist. That you become racist.

[@Rat-King27]

It's just good old horseshoe theory, they went so far left they ended up far right.

[@ryanxwonbin7984]

I wish comedy skits about how progressive people being so progressive they go full circle and become racists were just jokes. But here we are.

[@Goulash45]

When wokes meet racists. Lol

[@eugenechege1621]

The Ryan Long bit

[@Samael527]

@@eugenechege1621 ah you beat me to it

[@chasepalumbo2929]

FORREAL hollllly

[@ucheobiekwe2287]

Its easy to understand. Black people were fucked over by racial essentialism. Some people think we can un-fuck black people by the same racial essentialism, which is wrong. Some problems are race-based but a whole LOT more are socioeconomic.

[@TooMaaT]

Radical Coder is an excellent example of being so open minded that brains falls out

[@bestdjaf7499]

Supposed to be a smart guy. It's like a possession. I don't even understand what is arguing. about. Just remover the racist part out of the curriculum!!

[@bestdjaf7499]

You know, he might be just a Black Supremacist. Maybe the idea to teach the Black kids better & separately, so the "White" kids fall behind?

[@streamylc]

This is my personal definition of "woke"

[@urmum.comlel]

​@@streamylcit seems the case that wokeness demands this kind of dogmatic belief. If any minority is under represented the answer is always bigotry.

[@paxgamer3003]

Excellent Amala Ekpunobi quote. I use it all the time!

[@YoungboyNeverGonnaNotHaveMoney]

Teacher: “2 apples +2 apples =4 apples.” Darius: 🤔 Teacher: “I’m so sorry Darius, try this instead: 2 grams + 2 grams = 4 grams, that must make much more sense to you.”

[@TheRattail]

I’m sorry but even white kids in America can’t calculate with apples. Take cheeseburgers or some food Americans actually know 😂😂

[@ludwigvonsowell5347]

Pretty sure this was a teacher from everybody hates Chris

[@deagle2yadome696]

then Darius gets made fun of for understanding the math problem because learning is “behaving white”

[@spanishb1]

@@deagle2yadome696this is actually one of the biggest problems in the ghetto black/hispanic community. Learning and speaking properly gets you made fun of for “acting white”

[@ParsleyTheDruid]

Destiny continues to make good points and ask the questions that dismantle this guy’s point of view, And his go-to response is: “I can’t prove you’re wrong, but I’m certain that someone from my camp could”

[@BarNarDar]

"poor kids are just as smart as white kids." -Joe Brandon

[@alswisha8519]

Uhhh

[@xXFluffers]

As someone named Brandon I'm respectfully asking you to not use that meme

[@jumpergamer1913]

@@xXFluffers let's go!

[@regarded9702]

@@xXFluffers SODA!!!

[@AstroLonghorn]

@@xXFluffers every woman named Karen has tried this and failed. It’s too late lol

[@SM-fk5or]

This patronising type of low expectations racism is far worse than outright hatred. I’d rather have someone be openly hostile and racist towards me than someone feel like I’m less capable than them and that I need their help because of my race.

[@mandzph]

"I'm a tremendously kind person, and since you're from a group or race that is known to be shit by default I'll let your shit performance slide". Sounds like a thinly veiled condescending power trip to me.

[@sik3xploit]

These people are so insulting yet they think they are being generous in a way.

[@ryzikx]

holy fuck same😂 saying people of color like im some sort of alien specimen my god these phrases make me incredibly angry and i'm almost impossible to piss off

[@siremagu4916]

As a Christian conservative, the far left seems very racist to me. I can understand that we have a lot of differences in the way we engage the world due to the different cultures we're raised in, but that doesn't tie to our genetics or our skin color. That's such a backwards way of thinking. I'm so sad because people mostly don't treat other people who disagree with respect anymore.

[@Nosirt]

“Hey blacks, the right thinks you are too represented, have too much power, control the world and are trying to kill the white race. The left thinks you are a retarded 5 year old child. Which do you pick as your ally?” I honestly think being seen as stronger than you are is better than being seen as weaker than a literal cockroach.

[@Stratocaster42]

The fact that that document used "Latinx" which most actual Latin people find offensive was an instant red flag

[@jdgoesham5381]

Progs don't get that's a HUGE red flag to anyone not of their cult. The same with "equity". Once I hear that I can't take them serious. It's like dealing with a crazy religious nut who believes everything in the Bible or Quran.

[@nathandrake5544]

Most Latinos aren't offended by Latinx. If anything the people trying to create a molehill out of gender neutral language care more about it than progressives.

[@nathandrake5544]

@@meneither3834 "Latinx" isn't from the US. It's from queer activists in Latin America. The only thing that Americans do wrong is using it in spoken language when it was just meant to be a written shorthand.

[@srduncanbyu]

Yeah that’s one of the nice things about CRT...the language is so specific that you can catch on quick to the angle they’re tryna pull

[@christophergallagher3721]

"Latinx" is colonialism.

[@bcyz1000]

Only a computer science major who spent zero time with poor people could be this ignorant about human learning. As a computer scientist myself, I can tell you that the people in those classes were the most sheltered, protected, weak humans you will ever experience. Many of them learned everything they know about social interaction from chat rooms. (Funny that you mentioned Kenya....In my graduating class of 96 people, there was a single black gentleman, who was an exchange student from Kenya.) Skin color is nothing, parenting is everything.

[@luvaznsandrice]

As an Asian American with parents that were refugees from Laos and came to the us when they were 18, 100% the reason why I was so good at science and math is because they would literally beat me if I got anything less than a B. And my parents didn’t speak English well so they helped me ZERO times on my homework. In order to do well in math and science I had to GRIND every day of my elementary to my middle school years with ZERO friendship interaction outside of my house. I spent 95% of my time in my house when I wasn’t at school. We don’t learn crazy techniques we just learn abuse and high expectations.

[@luvaznsandrice]

@@Stop_Gooning don’t get me wrong. I turned out today because of what my parents did. I’ve learned that we all are growing and learning together. While my parents watched me grow up, I’ve also watched my parents grow and learn. They know now that the way we as their children treat them now is due to how we were raised. They know their mistakes. They can’t change them though. So while most of my siblings turned out great, the trauma and hatred and bitterness we held inside has been with us for the last 25+ years. You take the punches life gives you and you deal with them.

[@luvaznsandrice]

@@abdurrahmanqureshi3030 you’re probably baiting but whatever I’ll entertain you. Where does the origin of the abuse and bearings come from? What is the culture at home like? What is the language barrier like? There’s a lot of things that go into play for these situations. For most situations, refugee or immigrant Asian parents don’t care about athletics. They don’t care about student relationships inside and outside of school. All these things are pressures and abuse out on the child with the INTENT of only having smart or talented children that excel at certain topics. What’s the reason black children are being beaten? Is it due to neglect? Hatred? Anger for the spouse? Or anger for the lack of a spouse? All these things matter for the child to understand what the parent wants from them. With Asian parents their sole focus is if you don’t do well in school there will be consequences. I can’t speak from the black experience so I’m assuming the majority of black children beatings AREN’T because their parents want them to do really good in Math and Science.

[@sgthrawn]

I grew up in Minnesota with a lot of Hmong friends and classmates, this was in the 90s, so my Hmong friends were those that came from Laos, or the Thai refugee camps, knowing some English (a lot were put into special education classes because ESL in Minnesota wasn't really a thing until the later 2000s), but by no means fluent. The parents, no English. Met a lot of Chinese and Koreans in university, and have a lot of Japanese friends because of Karate. All of them echoed what you said. The focus on getting a PhD or medical degree, not because you actually want to study it, or help people, but solely because it provides social status, and potentially money. A funny story, my Thai ex was the black sheep of her family because she didn't have a PhD in chemistry/biology like her siblings, or a law degree. Only a college business degree, yet she ran a successful business over there for decades, owned lots of real estate, and made far more than myself (and I work in finance). Her parents, and her aunts/uncles didn't care that she was economically successful, in their eyes she was dumb and stupid because she didn't get an advanced degree.

[@Iamawesomenorly]

I don't believe you. Teach me your math fu, liar. /s

[@lehk23]

for an ideology that spouts "intersectionality" all the time, they seem to forget that when it comes to the BROAD range of asians. im east asian middle class, but i can guess you have had lots of struggle with the model minority perception as well. my parents also were pretty tiger (first gen) in the beginning but they acclimated eventually (in time for my younger sister XDD). im with you though, its not genetic, its parenting. ive never attributed my academic successes to "being asian" but rather being a hard worker and having those values instilled in me by my parents. i was learning the same stuff the other kids in my class were, no magic asian sorcery here. i find being a cis hetero asian american male in tech in a very liberal bubble (think coastal city known for tech and asians) is kind of rough when navigating the political landscape of today. it seems neither side gives a damn about us. its depressing thinking about my future children being judged harder than their peers purely based on how they look. what do we do? it seems so helpless and nobody wants to listen and when we speak out on injustices we face, its met with ridicule and "youre doing fine stop whining". we're people too man. we bleed too.

[@RockyMountain-cg4zv]

"progressive race realism" is simultaneously hilarious and completely fucking accurate to describe this bullshit

[@Tetzukai]

It must be progressive to be a racist.

[@xbabu142x]

It's even worse. Some vague variable not yet pin-pointed... Call it Race Nullsetism, neither real nor imaginary. Gonna add the CRT crowd officially to the list of performative dinguses that will try everything but the actual issue.

[@edwuncleriii1922]

CRT is racist against white people, not PoC

[@xbabu142x]

@@edwuncleriii1922 The math thing seems to just be such a fat L it's useless all around honestly. Unless you just wanna go to school for fun, you need to be competitive mathematically in order to get a job in any profession that requires it.

[@Tetzukai]

@@edwuncleriii1922 So is so-called race realism, but some white people still preach it apparently.

[@vgorp3849]

One of my biggest pet peeves with guys like this is the sign off where he says he wants to have more good faith "productive" conversations about this stuff, but for this entire conversation - 2 hours of bullshit - he didn't have a single example or even coherent defense for the book or the idea. There wasn't a single productive thing about any of it but he's reciting the correct language to pay lip service.

[@tb8654]

Right, he was whining about Destiny not engaging with it and describing it in bad faith while being completely unable to produce a good example that shows why it's good

[@gloryus8892]

Right, it seems honest at least but his basic premise is: "I don't know/I'm not an expert/I didnt study this but I think the people who wrote this know the reason and even though I can't imagine a single good justification for ethnomathematics we should trust them" Blind faith ideology is extremism, by the way. Then by the end he admits not having answers bothers him, which is great that he knows he's ignorant, but at that point he needs to shut up and go look for the answers. The cognitive dissonance is deafening.

[@jakedemo4590]

Coder didn't even show up with examples. He came to a debate, arguing from a particular standpoint and he didn't even bother to do the homework to have any examples ready to have a debate about. Destiny asked him a number of times to provide examples because the point he was asked to argue against was so vague, he couldn't even start to deconstruct what Radical Coder was saying, and Coder couldn't even come up with a concrete example for Destiny. Destiny literally had to make assumptions and use a ridiculous example from The Wire, of all things, to even start the debate in any meaningful manner.

[@_GFG_]

“We are implying that students of color have a unique set of needs” 23:20 *Radical coder:* “I don’t think- I mean they do..on average” *Destiny:* “what are they” *Radical coder:* um..well..they..they..whatever it is that’s making them perform worse” *Destiny:* is it their genes? *Radical coder:* wh-nO That’s what he’s saying without actually say it. He’s implying that’s the case that they it’s because they are black that they need it because of how they look like instead of their background. He dosen’t even know what to say when destiny is asking him what is it? “Whatever it is making them perform worse”….what.

[@keithfilibeck2390]

its painfully obvious he really actually believes black people are inferior and thus need special treatment but he can never say it, its disgusting, worse than any hardcore racist, because this guy and the thing he believes actually goes on to affect people through their "good intentions".

[@_GFG_]

@@keithfilibeck2390 exactly, to me these type of people are worse than the actual outright racists. If your doing this type of thing and then pretend your not racist, convince yourself your not racist is just weird. It’s racism covered in sprinkles basically.

[@Lupostehgreat]

He honestly sounds more confused when he says his points than anything else. When Destiny brings up to him that what he is saying is racist, the guy seems genuinely confused, even overwhelmed. He had never really thought that hard about any of these ideas, he probably just has a social circle of people who keep repeating it and reinforcing it. This is not ONLY a problem with Progressives, mind you. It's a human nature thing.

[@_GFG_]

@@Lupostehgreat right, I’m not claiming this stuff dosen’t happen to everyone but there comes to a point in an adult’s life when you make your own decisions and opinions. When you hear two different points you aren’t going to agree with a point just because it’s repeated a lot of times…your gonna agree because believe that true/a fact, he most likely agrees with it but has no other things to prove it or any actual point that will agree with his opinions. It seems like he’s confused but not confused to the point of him not knowing what he’s talking about. He knows what he’s talking about he just dosen’t have the research or the logic to make An argument it seems like. He’s a thirty year old, he must have enlugh maturity and logic to form an opinion even if it is absurd

[@Lupostehgreat]

@@_GFG_ I absolutely agree with you, but we're kind of the exception. The overwhelming number of people don't really think that much about their base values and deeply held beliefs. They know what feels right and they pursue things that give them more of a good feeling. This is why Trumpers will hypocritically switch sides on issues, back and forth, without a second thought. This is why hard left identity politics wokelets will back these hardcore racialist ideologies that seem to reinforce racist values rather than see others as individuals. This is why Red Pillers can go around, pursuing the very kind of women who make their lives more miserable and sad, without considering that if they actually practiced the family values they virtue signal, then they would just pursue sweet girls that aren't into the fast cars, big party lifestyles they like to embody. At the core of all of them, I think they just believe things that make them feel good. They may be otherwise intelligent in some ways, but in philosophy they could care less. Their beliefs just have to serve a function.

[@midnight_commander]

Not gonna lie as an Asian American who has degree in electrical engineering and now works in the tech industry, the math strategy that was used when I was learning math was the stick method. "Memorize this shit or get hit by the stick".

[@PfunkGW]

The sad truth that no one wants to acknowledge is that effort and discipline are the only tried and true methods in education.

[@midnight_commander]

@@NathalieRuth-v5y Can't you? Is there something specifically about a math formula that prevents you from memorizing it?

[@midnight_commander]

@@NathalieRuth-v5y Oh I misread your comment. I still think memorization will get you through most of the way.

[@goldenhedehogs]

@@NathalieRuth-v5y but you can "memorize" math, math is made of rules and formulas, if they are memorized it is just filling in the gaps of information using those rules and formulas

[@cjohnson3836]

@@midnight_commander Math isn't memorized. Real world math isn't multiplication tables. Building an algorithm that takes input from satellite tracking and runs against projected course parameters based on wind speed, flight velocity, etc. and alerts govt agencies of a potential terrorist threat when a United Airlines Boeing goes off course isn't about memorizing formulas. Its about knowing how to use mathematical properties to symbolize real world relationships in meaningful applications.

[@ffg7yt]

"we have to talk about why these disparities in education exist" if i hear one more goddamn person say that and then proceed to pretend you can't draw a pretty convincing line between hours spent studying and test scores by race im gonna blow my brains out

[@JohnDoe-kn7ex]

It’s kind of frustrating that Destiny basically touched on almost all of the reasons why the disparities exist and the progressive guy still kept repeating the same line.

[@Lupostehgreat]

@@JohnDoe-kn7ex part of that seems like The Progressive doesn't understand the issue and has just been reading Twitter and Reddit threads.

[@retardationnation869]

Nooooooo that would mean peoples actions impact their outcomes.

[@iwersonsch5131]

So the problem is that people with poor parents and/or in poor neighborhoods don't have enough time to study, right? So let's work on reconstruction instead of getting caught up in this colourblind anti-woke nonsense? Or what do you think?

[@ts4gv]

yeah but how can we expect students of color to do math homework that isn't basketball themed?

[@truwu8177]

Destiny, I am a right wing libertarian and I just want to say you are one of the best political youtubers out there! While we may ideologically disagree, your high degree rationality wins me over!

[@invntiv]

I feel the same way. I don't agree with him on everything but I agree with his approach and rationality, and his willingness to engage and challenge everyone regardless of their political leanings. I feel like his commentary is done in good faith, which is rare in the age of political content grifters and rage farmers. I have a lot of respect for him in that regard.

[@Chrisfragger1]

Dude is PRO-Puberty Blockers for Minor Children... Destiny is EXPRESSLY PRO-Child Abuse.

[@osamabinliftin8632]

Pretty traditional conservative Catholic here and absolutely agree. I don’t agree with everything, but it’s always good to get intelligent points giving another perspective.

[@voltron8375]

He let's other men bang his wife.

[@BP-or2iu]

How can you be libertarian and right wing?

[@Randy_Shoeman]

As an engineer, all of math is just applying algebra at higher and higher levels. Listening to this guy talk about math feels like a personal attack. And without a trigger warning no less

[@Durzo1259]

They really should have given the trigger warning. Now that something has upset you, it means you have PTSD. In fact that upsets me, so I must have PTSD too!

[@EpicMathTime]

As an engineer, you aren't qualified to speak about "all of math" (and as a working mathematician, neither am I), and what you said is completely absurd. Your coursework nor anything you do utilizes anything done in the last two centuries, and new math is produced every day. Stay in your lane; this isn't cute. Being able to produce any general characterization of "all of math" would take hundreds of lifetimes. I can't even begin to describe how absolutely insane your statement is.

[@Randy_Shoeman]

@@EpicMathTime clearly I’m joking. My god, idk wtf kind of brain worm you have that makes you so triggered. I’m obviously not actually taking about all of math. But also, this discussion is about general education levels, so basically through high school. Nearly all concepts in math build upon each other. Please tell me what mathematical concepts don’t require some understanding of algebra. Obviously there are other more advanced concepts but algebra is basically the core of all mathematics

[@EpicMathTime]

@@Randy_Shoeman You're right, I got way too triggered. I apologize. To answer your question, no, algebra is not at the core of all or most, or a significant portion mathematics in any sense, especially not "non-modern" algebra; the most general possible definition of "algebra" that I can apply is "anything involving a set equipped with binary operation(s)", which is extremely broad, but still doesn't approach "most." Mathematical topics tend to be linked, in that you can describe topological spaces through their association to their fundamental group (an algebraic notion) but this is a relationship of equals between the topological notion and the algebraic notion, and even so, this notion of algebra is not recognizable as "algebra" outside of people who study that particular thing. To answer your other question, someone could do point-set topology for a million lifetimes without ever knowing what algebra is. Someone could also do algebra and end up talking about fusion systems without running into topological notions (though fusion systems are strongly linked to number theory). It's just not something fundamental to math in general. I think that _set theory_ is something close to what we are getting at in terms of something that is seen in most of math, but still, I'm not sure how fundamental that is (many people play in other realms other than ZFC). As math is, ultimately, the study of logical consequence from a set of axioms, I don't think any mathematical objects or topics can be fundamental to mathematics itself, I think that the fundamentals of mathematics lie in logic, and as set theory is most foundational, the lines between logic and set theory are very blurry (consider that something like DeMorgan's Laws can be stated in terms of logic and set theory completely equivalently). In any case, algebra is lightyears away from fundamental. If set theory is machine code, then algebra is Mozilla Firefox. Category theory is also fundamental, but in a high level way that is on the opposite end of the machine code - it's like an "overview" of all of mathematics from the top down. I'm not really sure what analogy is suitable there. In any case - I don't really think that "all math" has a definition anyway. I think that's like talking about "all art." We could invent a completely new mathematical object right now, it's just that the chances are that it wouldn't be interesting enough to be noteworthy (rather like most art that is created). I'm sorry that I insulted you and that I responded like that. I didn't really read your tone properly, and I see that now.

[@Jreaddy]

@@Durzo1259reading this gave me ptsd.

[@ResonantFrequency]

When conservatives were protesting CRT in schools this is the kind of BS they were talking about by the way.

[@25acpunderrated71]

Exactly

[@gamingwhilebroken2355]

No they weren’t lol.

[@n1ghtofthedead411]

Can you blame them? Listening to this senseless babble of this radical coder guy is infuriating. The progressives in America are something else when they begin talking about race.

[@DaultonYoung]

@M K Definitely not. You can look up right now the books Florida was banning. NPR was complaining that CRT, Queer Studies, and a whole lot of other random shot wasn't included in a Black History class. You're talking out your ass.

[@ResonantFrequency]

@@DaultonYoung No you just have the memory of a goldfish, the black history AP course is not even close to the first national CRT in schools debate.

[@erenyeeagah204]

these ppl need to stop treating us like a different species, im tired of this infantilizing and patronizing treatment. our ancestors were enslaved, some of the ripple effects still affect us to a degree depending on where you live blablabla, we get it bro.

[@MsOrganicBlack]

@Boris Cuduco Exactly.

[@okbye4552]

@Boris Cuduco what is justice for someones relative getting lynched

[@justifano7046]

@@boriscuduco so what's the solution?

[@KJ-od8wq]

@Boris Cuduco Yes, that was the question posed to you. If these people lynched your grandpa 50 years ago and are dead now, what’s your answer?

[@ChindlerBong]

@@KJ-od8wq They're dead

[@dmendez4741]

The fact this dude is allowed to teach students is scary and reveals how pathetic our education system really is!

[@twidleedee2487]

I can’t wait for a new wave of engineers and scientists who haven’t been taught math properly. This is gonna be great

[@spartansquid5931]

"The nuclear reactor rods need to be dipped in 5 fried chicken wings of liquid goddamnit!"

[@Kiadaw77]

No worries, the new wave of engineers will come from places like Philippines and India, that are taught math properly.

[@cosettapessa6417]

@@spartansquid5931 ahahahahh

[@PfunkGW]

The idea that these black kids are going to be engineers and scientists….lol

[@reddillon8425]

we're not the right, these insane political ideas don't gain any traction unlike the ones on the right which always get greenlit all the way to the top level (including the president at one point.)

[@TexKimball]

I'm an hour and ten minutes in and I feel like this guy has said absolutely nothing. Everything he says is so vague and unsubstantiated, it really sounds like he was backed into a corner when Destiny pointed out how horrible of an idea it is to frame this as a racial issue, but felt like he needed to double down on them because he's invested so much in this set of ideas.

[@wrathofachilles]

Because any answer he could give would ultimately boil down to innate differences and race realism, and he's afraid to say that. A Hotep or Black Separatist could, but a White Progressive isn't going to.

[@Nezzy750]

At the 44:30 mark you realize his whole issue is with kids moving into the next grade in math when they obviously shouldn’t. Which is a byproduct of schools just passing kids bc these same progressives pushed for it. At yo the mix it’s not a race issue but a class and social economic issue.

[@mrosskne]

don't think, just say things that make you feel good

[@Enthos2]

This feels like one of those convos where the opponent comes in ready to fully defend whatever point and by the end, their argument has been watered down so brutally that it's like why the f are you still even claiming to be on the other side anymore

[@tjfreckles1995]

Because the next time he goes to talk about it he’ll say the same shit he started with here and won’t have moved an inch. I don’t think this guy was coming in to this conversation to analyze his beliefs at all

[@loopyloon5401]

@@tjfreckles1995 Hell, he didn't even seem to understand what he was pushing, how did he know he believed this stuff while still learning about it by his own admission?

[@saints51]

Fifty years ago, I was a sociology major. I paid attention to the professor, read all the required studies, plodded through Max Weber, and learned the lingo. Finally, near year's end, I wrote a paper that absolutely wowed my professor. She gushed that she wished she could write as well as I did. This was the last straw. Of all the bullshit I'd read the whole semester, mine was the worst. I figured that if any body of scholars would consider what I'd written as "good writing," I didn't want anything to do with them. This book, A Pathway to Equitable Math Instruction," brings those horrors back in vivid color.

[@ThatOneGuyWhatsHisName]

I cant say i share ur experience but I always wondered how easy it would be to fit as many buzzwords as possible into a paper and get top marks because the staff are political hacks

[@thebristolbruiser]

⁠@@ThatOneGuyWhatsHisNameKind of like what Alan Sokal did back in the summer of 96.

[@carlou4409]

This is a perfect display of one of my issues with progressivism recently People just instantly agree with something that comes from the "inside group" and try to reverse engineer the reasons why on spot instead of actually engaging with the material and forming their opinions about it, and I can't really blame them that much since any disagreement will be regarded as bigotry by people who also didn't read the material in the first place

[@gemkid85]

This is not a progressive thing. It's a human thing. People are rather ignorant of their shortcomings in general.

[@loopyloon5401]

@@gemkid85 It's called groupthink, nobody wants to be the odd man out.

[@aguspuig6615]

yeah, and the worst part is when you acuse them of doing so and they pull the ''well im not well equipped to have this discussion i only have a basic knowledje of this because of a seminar i was forced to atend'' as an excuse while they where previously ready to defend the idea to the death

[@michaelknight2897]

I agree. They are dogmatic and so that dogma is put into text, writing, codified, then they try to reason their way to that dogma, and fail every time.

[@paxgamer3003]

well said

[@SuperRainbol]

This guy had already debated Tiny on the topic before and knew what he would say yet the caller didn't had a simple counter argument and just repeated the premise over and over again

[@razzle_dazzle]

When was the first time? Was it uploaded as a video?

[@bt-ft1tz]

It's not about racism, it's about eroding the overall quality of education.

[@amithus705]

Fucking this. Exactly

[@regarded9702]

2 letter names always have the most enlightened comments

[@xbabu142x]

Let's go tell the employers that math is now taught differently and explain the differences. So this dude is setting up a world where black people will have spent time and money through taxes hoping their kids would be educated but this dingus and his buddies took the tax money and kneecapped your kids and fucked your family over. Oopsie daisies. I know for a fact this dude does not listen to anyone when talks, like actually listening to comprehend.

[@amithus705]

@@regarded9702 lol right

[@lifeisashonen4291]

Really appreciate that you pulled up the actual document/book and were willing to go through it piece by piece. It really allows for discussions to be had "in good faith"

[@NRB3]

This is what happens when stupid ideas get flushed out. You realize they’re stupid. That doesn’t mean the person who had the thoughts or agreeed with the ideas for a time are stupid. It just means that they have not been able to flush it out and understand it in a different perspective. This is why dialogue is so important and cancel culture is such a dangerous threat. When you can’t discuss something to its core, people become stupid because they allowed those ideas to manifest through actions.

[@drakenelson8611]

Beautifully put!

[@CrestOfArtorias]

Fair, but its also pretty stupid.

[@johnpaparella4995]

Fleshed out is the term you're looking for

[@foodchewer]

Based. Bring back the dialectic.

[@younggeezer8232]

It's got a high possibility if they keep thinking the same way.

[@mikecurry6847]

Saying "it's not a _social_ construct, it's a _legal_ construct" is like saying "it's not a social construct, it's a type of social construct"

[@anem0nia]

These people are so dumb thar they can't even argue their own niche topics properly

[@JemyM]

I have a diagnosis in Asperger Syndrome, a condition that I do not identify with and do not impact me much anymore. Statistically, by average, Aspies suffers from a lot of stuff unique to that group. However I can't imagine how much shame and cringe I would feel if the teacher would divide the class in people with Asperger and people without Asperger and offer me a separate lecture based on their conception of Aspies. Not only would I feel totally separated from my friends, I would also think about all other marginalized groups that are made invisible and I would fear that they would end up jealous or look down on me due to my special treatment.

[@JemyM]

@@ronswanson1410 To do that you kind of need to know what factor influence a person the most. If you try to derive someone's lived experience through surface level attributes (skin, sex) and make those primary in the classroom, then you will end up missing what might go on underneath that impacts someone more (class, sexuality, function, social factors like 'my parents are beating me', very long travel time to school, language development etc).

[@seanjenkins5505]

I'm so progressive I want more. Divide every class based on race and mental illnesses

[@Goulash45]

Asperger’s doesn’t clinically exist anymore. It’s all ASD now.

[@JemyM]

@@Goulash45 If I tell people I have ASD they either do not know what it means or get a false impression of me. I do not tell people about Asperger either unless it is relevant to a conversation, since I changed so much in 15 years that I would probably not get the diagnosis today.

[@Nedak2003]

Thats exactly how i felt when they sent me off to IEP rooms for certain subjects. It made me worry less about learning and more about being seen as normal.

[@sgame79]

22:25: this kind of thing anyways baffles me - when people argue hard for something, but then revert to some version of "hey, I'm not an expert" when challenged. If you don't understand something enough to mount a defense for it, you don't understand it enough to argue in favor of it in the first place.

[@woodsmand]

My daughter goes to a school with a majority of minority students and the performance of the school is absolutely disgraceful. The district responds to every complaint by having stupid race based parent meetings because apparently black parents and hispanic parents can't attend the same meeting, hiring more black teachers and having assemblies about racism. None of this helps the students in any way, but it helps the school district look like they care. Its simply easier and cheaper ( and doesn't run the risk of offending teachers unions )to do a little virtue signaling about systemic racism than to address the systemic failures of the education system.

[@tapejara1507]

sounds like a hell hole maybe you should get her outta there.

[@woodsmand]

@@tapejara1507 The only reason anyone ends up in Stockton is because they have nowhere else to go

[@tapejara1507]

@@woodsmand feelsbadman

[@patternrecon5271]

Poor daughter

[@MrKmas508]

If you cared remotely about your daughter she wouldn’t be in that school. Instead you make empty statements about “systemic racism” to get head pats from strangers from the internet. Anything bad that happens to her whether it’s done by her or someone else is on you and your awful parenting.

[@Kyle-qf5zc]

Watching this after watching the AJW video on 93% of Baltimore students testing below grade level in math. It makes a lot of sense now.

[@Kira-zo6bf]

Once again, James Lindsay and the conservatives (small c) were right about Lefties going crazy, like, 5 years ago. And this is exactly why I, a true milktoast dirty centrist, listen and criticise both sides. Smh it's really stupid how the same Lefties who were saying "it's never gonna happen" now fully go in into this bs.

[@internethero83]

the problem is that the truth is all baked in propaganda. its impossible to project anything reasonable when the conversation is "black kids are tortured and shot every single day and we must reform america" vs "tear your kids out of public education or they'll get trannied"

[@TheGabrielPT]

Even though James Lindsay has become a complete lunatic and reactionary on Twitter, I find his lectures on his "New Discourses" youtube channel pretty interesting, it goes deep on these progressive brainrot pseudo theories

[@kalplays9922]

I would qualify that it was him plus Helen Pluckrose and Peter Boghossian. Without them, however, Lindsay has gone off the deep end.

[@jamesmcmackin8773]

Lindsay, Pluckrose, and Boghossian were mostly true in their criticisms of Leftist academia, the problem is they tend to handle it with the same emotional incontinence that would compel them to call someone else a snowflake, especially Lindsay.

[@kalplays9922]

@@jamesmcmackin8773 See, I don't know about that one. Especially with regard to Pluckrose. I don't think she's that type of person at all. Boghossian, perhaps. But Lindsay has the monopoly on insanity among the three of them by far.

[@azariib2355]

As a black kid I learned the basics of math (addition, subtraction, fractions) with money n those cube blocks. After that I understood the rest the same way the white kids did. Education should focus on individual circumstances like backgrounds than racial circumstances. No black kid wants to hear your black so this way of learning will suit u better. If you go too far right and too far left the ideologies become racist. A middle ground is ideal for us all no matter your racial identity your background is more important

[@justindunn4223]

If you're REALLY a black, you obviously couldn't have written your comment. Do, youve been fact checked, and it appears youre pants are on fire!

[@The_ScapeGoat]

So you didn't learn math by talking about drugs, pimpin' and gang warfare? My liberal college professor said that was how one connects with "the blats"

[@keys5595]

You can see the same thing with African immigrants as well. I had a friend who’s parents were low middle class and from Senegal. But they pushed academics HARD, like anything less than a A was disgraceful because they took the opportunity to have an education seriously. And all of his siblings including him did VERY well in school. Because they had a environment that basically forced them to do well in school and prioritized that over everything, relationships, sports, hobbies, etc.

[@spartansquid5931]

@@abdurrahmanqureshi3030 They statistically overall perform wayyyyy better than kids who aren't forced to study hard, so no, it's not a moot point

[@3112-x9r]

Forceful tiger-parents are not healthy for a child. That sort of pressure is a large part of what drives the high rates of suicide in East Asian countries.

[@keys5595]

@@3112-x9r oh I agree, I wasn’t arguing that it was good. Just that environments that encourages specific things will tend to do well in that certain thing.

[@jayallen81]

As a black person, I learned how to count and do math using watermelon seeds. I learn'd good.

[@dodumichalcevski]

😂😂😂😂😂

[@caasik013]

As someone who was a poor black kid that got As in math throughout my life, I'm glad progressives are telling me now I wouldn't be able to learn math the same as my white counterparts.

[@CrestOfArtorias]

Better get back to learning how to dance eh? Seriously do they not see how fucking racist that is?

[@reddillon8425]

let's not pretend like this is the average progressive view I'm not entirely convinced the whole textbook wasn't made by somebody on 4chan as a racist joke.

[@jsgdk]

​@@reddillon8425 I agree that the average progressive have no idea about this stuff, they will probably defend it though, and its not fringe in pedagogy and education. Basically James Lindsay is mostly right and thats a problem.

[@SeasoningTheObese]

@@reddillon8425 Well that's why 4chan stopped making those, because the left started doing it unironically. "Hey let's make liberals think the fucking 'ok' symbol is a racist dog whistle", and the left took that ball and ran. No reason to be hyperbolic about left wing racism since they've exceeded expectations.

[@ATownMLH]

I can't imagine how frustrating it must have been asking him for examples the whole time and not getting a single one

[@ffn8917]

Your wrong, what about the special lines that asians draw when doing multiplication or whatever? Checkmate racist.

[@LQQKING4CATFIGHTER]

Crazy how both the far left and right can never admit their side is wrong on any issue or point and will defend every thing their side comes up with!

[@misantropology]

The whole “people on the other side are trying to ban this, therefore we shouldn’t admit any problems with it” argument is the most frustrating shit ever.

[@homelander7742]

Well, he says multliple times during the debate that there are things about the book that he doesn't like. Nice straw man, though.

[@CrestOfArtorias]

@@homelander7742 I mean he isnt convincing one way or the other, he sounds like the biggest fucking caricature of a leftist without the right having to paint it.

[@117Ender]

@@homelander7742 he also says hes not well versed on the topic but still supports it cause trust the experts. so hes the useful one, that doesnt understand the matter but listens to the ppl who he claims to be experts who cant explain to state how it should work but he will go on championing that this will help without any info on how...

[@Kyle-qf5zc]

This conversation would have been 100000% better if James Lindsay was there to read through this document with you guys. Jimmy Concepts would tear this thing apart.

[@DaseinClimbs]

I live and teach in Hong Kong, and according to my secondary students they aren't learning some special way to engage with mathematics, they are being forced to memorize "facts" about math. There isn't some special tool given to the kids in Hong Kong that allows them to be more successful comparatively to other international kids other than the fact that maths is a core, drilled subject in school every year. Destiny is 100% right on this regard.

[@sleepydragonzarinthal3533]

one of my favorite parts of Destiny arguments are when he gives examples purely to demonstrate the absurdity of the argument, and someone unironically jumps in with a call-out tone to say his example is absurd

[@Anonymous-ks8el]

Mathematics does not care what race, ethnicity, culture or country you come from Teach it the same way to everyone

[@erikshure360]

Sorry but we are not all the same, some of us just learn differently -- I say this as someone who had to learn math differently. Some people, like certain savants, have a completely different way of conceptualizing numbers. I'm no savant but to just pretend like everyone learns the same way is just flat out wrong.

[@michaelh13]

@@erikshure360 Do you think the manner in which we learn things differently is partitioned among racial lines? Because that's what this textbook seems to imply

[@erikshure360]

@@michaelh13 If there are a cluster of genes that influence how you think, and this cluster is found more often in one group than another then I'd consider using a different teaching method for each of the groups. The group could be at the family level, sub-race level, or race level -- it doesn't matter. What matters is where the different genes are found.

[@gamingwhilebroken2355]

@@erikshure360 They’re clearly talking about along racial lines and not individual lines. Obviously they probably don’t think some with a learning disorder should be taught the exact same way as someone without a learning disorder.

[@gttryhyujytudtgjghjdcjdg998]

It cares what your average IQ is though.

[@bren3624]

As a teacher, I would say a career in education has made it clear that people love to use students make money based off of little to no evidence. What always falls through the cracks is what would actually improve a child’s education, family dynamics and social economic status

[@Schwaka]

I hate this thing where people will loudly support something, but can't even explain or defend it. The number of times this dude argued for this nonsense, then when asked for an explanation or examples, he just said I don't know, hurts my soul.

[@avivastudios2311]

Sounds pretty dramatic...

[@brianbrown4513]

As a right leaning centrist with some more Libertarian beliefs I would like to say that while I disagree with (realistically)over 50% of what Destiny says I truly appreciate his ability to have conversations in good faith and arrive to conclusions in a logical way. I can appreciate people who have different opinions and beliefs in me as long as they have logical arguments and can articulate the reasons for those beliefs. The idea that we live in an age where everyone wants to sow seeds of rage and discord among people with views that don't align and pejoratives are used more often than sensible debate I enjoy listen to conversations that aren't spilling over with logical fallacies and hyperbole or sweeping generalizations.

[@MichaelRoberts9000]

These kinds of Progressives are the reason I stopped going to DSA meetings. They keep missing the point,I'm black and I know most of my peoples problems is a lake of resources. This poem sums up the problem perfectly. 90%-95% of the reasons why a student might not do well in school is because of their lives out side of school. 'Cause I Ain't Got a Pencil' I woke myself up Because we ain't got an alarm clock Dug in the dirty clothes basket, Cause ain't nobody washed my uniform Brushed my hair and teeth in the dark, Cause the lights ain't on Even got my baby sister ready, Cause my mama wasn't home. Got us both to school on time, To eat us a good breakfast. Then when I got to class the teacher fussed Cause I ain't got no pencil. By Joshua T. Dickerson

[@Voltroc]

Yeah. Its a poor people problem more than a racial thing. The issue is the discrepency in poor demographics. The issue is that its a nasty cycle where poor people are so far behind the curve to succeed that its hard to break it without some exceptional focus on it.

[@Lupostehgreat]

@@Voltroc add on top that changing a lot of these habits takes a heroic amount of self-criticism which verges on flat out self-hatred and you have bad habits taught to children who grow up and teach their own children the same bad habits, cycling on into eternity. While The Right has serious fucking problems with racism (they often represent the teacher who yells at the kid for not having the pencil, then kicking them out as they are not a serious student), The Left doesn't help said individuals by coddling them and saying "there, there, you cannot help it. It is your race that makes you this way. It was destiny for you to get kicked out, the system is just erected against you." Meanwhile, that Lefty would have done more good by just giving the kid the pencil when he gets to class, and helping the teacher give some extra attention to catch the kid up. Currently, The Left is just trying to teach The Right to not ever expect the kid to have a pencil, and pass him anyway.

[@ogolthorp]

The DSA has a big racism problems.

[@loopyloon5401]

@@Voltroc It also doesn't help that teachers in general are incompetent, they get more money for not doing their job during a strike than they do for actual proficiency in their work, we should ban their unions.

[@CrestOfArtorias]

That and poor families also tend to not value education, which severely hampers a child's learning potential.

[@FranklinW]

My mom actually did try to teach me the asian line multiplication method. And the result was me immediately saying "fuck that" to using it. The secret asian strategy I was subjected to was being put in extracurricular math courses that taught material years before they ever showed up in school, being given a shit-load of problems and tests daily, and being told that other north americans were lazy. I'm sure it must've happened, but I can't even recall learning *how* to do any math. Only all the problems/tests/contests.

[@ricecake4588]

I appreciate how creative smart people can be with their stupidity.

[@BruceWing]

Highly underrated observation.

[@_nebulousthoughts]

Every single thing he suggested will make this issue worse because he won't talk about the actual problem, shit parenting and bad role models. One of the worst things you can do to a human being is give them an excuse for not succeeding before they've had a chance to succeed at anything.

[@D0VEWORLD]

The American classification of race has melted this Radical Coder dude's brain entirely. Coming from a country that deals with race classification differently, this felt like I just listened to a 1 and a half hour Klan rally.

[@Starckoo]

He has "Progressive Software Engineer & Educator" on his GitHub.....wtf, who describes themselves that way?

[@MrRafagigapr]

"Progressive Software Engineer & Educator" actually means "progressive "educator" "

[@gungaginga9772]

the software he develops will be slower for white people to dismantle their privilege 🤣

[@SneedFeedSeed]

code monkey can't even write code so he slaps progressive label to sell himself better

[@SomeSubhuman]

I don’t believe his credentials, frankly. From what we can see on his Github, I can’t believe he’s a CS “educator”.

[@sportscardsandthings]

I am ashamed this person claims to share the same profession as me.

[@1Mayyz]

Only like 20 minutes in and I’m actually agreeing with destiny for a change. I think we should all be taught the same. Majority of issues are probably based on socioeconomic issues as opposed to how things are taught.

[@AndrewWilson-Anotherrose]

techincally he is advocating for each persons' needs should be addressed accordingly, like poorer kids should be offered more help id they get less help at home from their parents, things like that.

[@0heck]

You are absolutely right. Why race is being connected to the ability to learn is racist in itself. Socioeconomics have a huge affect on individuals outlooks on how they prioritize things they engage in.

[@maxpowers4436]

Taught the same is a bit of a stretch. Schools in general need to learn to cater to a wider variety of teaching. Especially the younger and earlier years. Destiny mentioned it many times but not only do boys and girls learn differently type of boy and types of other boys learn differently. Then in college and older years people can be taught more in the "same way". But for some reason far left weirdos equate this to Black people need to learn subjects via song and dance.

[@ucheobiekwe2287]

@@0heck Why are black people on the low end of socioeconomics?

[@twinkletoes8094]

@@AndrewWilson-Anotherrose I can agree with that. I think the problem arises when you switch it from poor kids to black kids. We definitely should provide more tools for poor kids, across the board, regardless of race.

[@Arran1994]

Radical Coder has been very successfully indoctrinated to support radical ideas he doesn’t even understand. Every one of his indoctrinators after teaching him: “HE’S PERFECT! Mwahahaha!”

[@Guitarmaster7272]

Conservatives have been saying anti-racism is just racism since Ibram X Kenndy came out with his 2019 book "How to be antiracist". They say he says discrimination today is the only way to correct the discrimination of the past.

[@117Ender]

the full quote is The only remedy to past discrimination is present discrimination. The only remedy to present discrimination is future discrimination. notice all the progressives arent interested in reducing discrimination just welding it against others...

[@andx79]

Destiny was spot on saying he would be one of the parent boycotters @ 58:01 , I love that destiny is able to have a good conversation with people pushing racism. People like this guest are great examples of the racism of low expectations. Keep up the good work destiny.

[@mfThump]

I checked out when dude prefaced his stance of “anti-racism”(distinct from not being racist) I’m into surrealism but damn, this dude straight up lives in clown world. I had to take a walk around my house after getting hit with _implement call and response into teaching._ bro they gonna have to teach in smoke signals next 💀💀

[@GasDude1011]

🤣🤣

[@ryzikx]

smoke signals? maybe that's what he meant by the colored peoples needs

[@homelander7742]

Yeah, it's so cringe and soy to be against racism, right? 🙄 I'm all in favor of criticizing the left when it goes too far, but you sound like a 2015 anti-SJW right now.

[@fidi324]

This might be the first time my lack of life experience as a 24 yrold has helped my viewpoint. I clearly remember learning algebra then geometry; destiny is absolutely right you need algebra before geometry simply because the solutions to all geometric formulas is entirely dependent on ur ability to simplify them algebraically. All variable based math explicitly requires algebra for that exact reason

[@umangmalik]

"I'm not obsessed with Factorio anymore" he says, while playing Factorio

[@EpFiDude]

The fact that he is comparing creative fields to math, and then says "Ah so people can learn however they want!", is just one of the most insane things to me. There is a reason why creative fields teach the fundamentals in a very structured way. How any of this is related to racism is just beyond me.

[@ChipCheerio]

Math at a higher level does seem to be a creative field, but yeah all creative fields build up from fundamentals.

[@synlion]

@@ChipCheerio I know fuck all about high level math. could you explain how it is a creative field at that level?

[@luissanquirico7189]

@@synlion they could be referring to high level physics/calc/engineering when the framing for how to solve a problem isn’t necessarily linear but more fluid where you can solve a problem from multiple angles

[@courtneyvaldez7903]

Creative fields also allow you to break all the rules. Math has to be done absolutely correctly, or else it just doesn’t work.

[@synlion]

@MarmitePopsicle that's pretty cool. thanks :)

[@TheTayquann]

Black person here, me and my dad talk alot, it started when I was young, like we talk about aliens, guns, weed, laws basically everything besides gaming basically unless something interesting happened around a gamer any. He once said its a massive difference between growing up with both parents in the sense that we respect authority more; then going to school (like 5th grade) and recongnizing the ones who always were acting up were the ones that had single moms or their dad was strict to the point that basically seen him as a monster to avoid. That being said destiny is right, treat everyone the same a teachers job is to teach not to parent. I sincerely thank my teachers who had to put up with all of our bs for not quitting (there was a few teachers that'll say to your face ima go work for that district with all them white ppl cuz yall to much and they do it) and finding a way to teach us properly in a way.

[@spartansquid5931]

W father

[@CrestOfArtorias]

Having a family that values education to some degree HUGELY influences the chances for a good education in ANY child. Having both parents, especially for young males, means a seven times lower chance of becoming criminal. I understand a lot of folks want their lifestyles to be valid and all but in the end, it goes back to a working and functioning family.

[@matthewfors114]

the racial education gap comes from most of these students being raised in single mother household with no rules

[@FrostKing104]

It's so hard to call myself a liberal when this stuff is what the representatives of the group say. Edit: surprised by the positive responses, usually that's hard to find on KZbin haha, thanks all!

[@zking2929]

Don't associate with those people be the better liberal

[@thek2despot426]

Be the liberal you want to see in the world! 🌈💫 Also, just to be clear, liberal ≠ leftist.

[@Summoningz]

@@thek2despot426 Liberals can be left leaning, but aren’t necessarily Uber progressive.

[@FrostKing104]

@@zking2929 agreed, thanks for the positivity

[@spht9ng]

That's why we are OMNILIBERALS

[@LBK978]

My issue with this is that hyper progressives very quickly lose sight of things and begin to become regressive. I am black, and I certainly had no need for some weird "ethno-centric" approach to math. Where we have these kids struggling is those kids in shitty spots, meaning low socioeconomic status leading to poorly funded schools and overall lack of opportunity for those that aren't natrually talented. That's not a race thing but rather an environment/cultural thing. Black people are not a monolith lol. I did the standard type of education and am pretty successful from it. Graduated college with a STEM degree and am going to pursue a STEM grad degree shortly. If these super liberal people stopped treating poorer POCs like they need to be coddled and stsrt addressing issues properly, we could probably actually progress those demographics. Racism is a thing, but I don't like fictionalizing it where it isn't. Racist housing practices DID have a role, but we can't use that as a crutch forever.

[@Awaken_To_0]

It is heartwarming that whether Reactionary or Progressive both sides can come together...in racism.

[@coltonconnor112]

You drive a Ford focus. No addition of letters will change that fact

[@More_Row]

What's wrong with a Ford focus.

[@adambougher4992]

For a math teacher to properly engage with poor black students, he/she simply has to turn their chair around,

[@lejamesbron5880]

Because they're lollygagging and playing around too much or...?

[@adambougher4992]

I was making a “Dangerous Minds” reference. I’m old

[@adambougher4992]

The teacher’s chair

[@MsOrganicBlack]

@@adambougher4992 Good one. 😂😂🤣

[@davidhughes4089]

@@adambougher4992 they also have to "care too much", ask them to call them "Teach" or by their first name and deal with any insubordination one-on-one on the basketball court.

[@BetterThanNothing123]

Listening to this guy backpedal and being unable to provide a single argument is the funniest shit ever

[@blackredd6563]

So am I good at math because I’m a white Latino immigrant? Damn didn’t know I got a slice of that white privilege

[@gnsindhur9890]

When I was in fourth grade my parents made me memorize multiplication tables upto from 2 to 20 till 20. I mean 2x1, 2x2...2x20 to 20x1,20x2...20x20. then they made me memorize them in the reverse order. 2x20,2x19...2x1, and so on. This was to help me get me to be able to do multiplication quickly. They'd ask me multiplication randomly at breakfast. For eg 19x7, 13x15 etc. This helped me a lot during math. My father had studied in a village school. It was basically a teacher with a black board teaching under a tree. No building or rooms. His teacher had made him memorize multiplication tables like this and he passed it to me. My father went on to do a master's in geophysics. It takes commitment and committed teachers for learning maths. That's all. Everyone can learn maths. You just need committed teachers who would push you.

[@117Ender]

and progressives will argue that was racist, and your father should have learned how to do that by using chicken bones to not racist.

[@mylesleggette7520]

At the school I work at we are usually not allowed to push students, because it "negatively impacts their emotional well-being." We then train students to retreat from problems by providing them a grab-bag of excuses. ("My mental health," "you're not the right race, so I can't relate to you," etc.)

[@Halbmond]

My sister drives a Ford Focus, too! It fits her husband and three children in as well, it’s a pretty neat car. She also has a girl’s name

[@DetectiveThursday]

The problem with enthnomathematics is that it pretends it’s something that has never been done when in actuality it’s a rehash of Freire’s pedagogical methods applied to math rather than literacy. The problem with Freire is ultimately his methods are more concerned with creating a generation of activists than actually teaching the subject that the teacher has been assigned to.

[@Jeff-su8tc]

43:00 not just college. This happened in all my math classes after algebra. There were times where a quarter, half, or entire class did not understand a concept the teacher was utilizing for the lesson. So time had to be diverted to go over that instead of progressing the original lesson. It got irritating after a bit.

[@nastybandit322]

I don't know how to describe it properly but this guy embodies something people do when they have a vague idea or value at the beginning of exploring a topic, and then let their mind just produce complicated babble to make a structure that seems decent at a glance. I feel like the reasoning they produce only has to be strong enough to fool themselves, and they are looking for why they are right and not why they could be wrong. I feel that the way to spot this is the person resists anchoring down on data points and building logic up from their if they can sense it even could resist their beginning feeling or idea. Also if the person handwaves contradictions or lack of examples and states they aren't an expert or need more time(to just make a more complicated thought structure to reach the same end goal). soz for schitzo post but I see this type of reasoning so much in the real world and it is surreal to see people use reason as a self deceptive tool and not as something to examine the world with.

[@Jemsy_]

Not even 6 minutes in and I'm crying with laughter

[@Paputsza]

@MemersAnonymous In his defense he's trying to argue for something he doesn't even fully support.

[@SneedFeedSeed]

@@Paputsza He doesn't even know what he is talking about.

[@cherrymilk5590]

Most Asian Americans are far more similar to other Americans than they are to Asians in Asia. Overstating cultural differences and using that to paint broad generalizations about different races in America is racist af. We don't "do things differently," a lot of us just have stricter parents when it comes to academics, and this is not exclusive to Asian immigrants, it exists in other races as well. Framing things as "Asian Americans do this unique technique in their culture" makes me think this guy has never talked to an Asian person in his life. I'm not saying there are no cultural differences but overstating it makes me roll my eyes.

[@jackthehat1093]

"I view maths as a creative field" No you don't. You're a coder.

[@JAN0L]

It's a creative field for like 0.01% of the population that become academics.

[@ase2068]

It absolutely is. However you can’t create when you’re catching up to be apart of the medium. Learning Math at the start is just that - catching up to the contributions of giants before us.

[@xbabu142x]

@@JAN0L Any proof of this? Oh wait nvm shits all proofs.

[@xbabu142x]

"I view meth as a crystal venture" -- words used before deciding on naming the book ethnomathematics made sense.

[@jackthehat1093]

@@ase2068 A mathematic equation isn't subject to your creative vision. You can use mathematics for creative pursuits but mathematics itself is rigid and unchanging.

[@vrozgy]

Jesus Christ! Just got here. "Race realism was co-opted from CRT." Edit: Context: "... It refers to the permanence of racism and how it materialy impacts people. How the history of racism, continued racialization of people perpetuates those structures."

[@Etherchannel]

Yea. What a wild conversation.

[@RadicalCoder]

Wait until you hear the next half of that sentence!

[@chronographer]

CRT: 'continued racialization of people perpetuates evil structures.' CRT: 'So here is how WE continue to racialize people. Black people are bad at math :)'

[@M3atP0psicl35]

Wow. As a conservative (I know) I am impressed. My best friend is progressive and I wish he was half as rational as this. I also know an elementary teacher, and her take after consiming this tool would be as cringe as Destiny fears. I love what they do, but some of them are not that smart.

[@swillz1416]

As someone who doesn't live in America I've never understood the argument that math is racist, I live in a country where 80% of the population is black and brown people and there are countless people who do well in math. Even me, I was a slacker in the early years of highschool but my last two years I buckled down for my final exams and did surprisingly well. Race has no impact on how good u do in math.

[@AJ-sl7be]

Statistically are they doing as well as Whites and Asians? You might be ignorant of different outcomes if you haven't researched it.

[@MrCowman57]

I think the argument is that most African American students come from a lower socio economic back ground so they are just going to have a lot more problems at home that bleed into school. also the culture surrounding academic achievement isn’t very high. So there are factors outside of school that they can’t really solve for cause the main issue is getting the student to care while that student also having to deal with issues at home

[@n1ghtofthedead411]

Because that guy talking with Destiny is an idiot. Cannot give examples, pivots from absolute crazy statements, tries to defend non-existent issues, and does not accept common sense solutions.

[@itsonlyagame4033]

@@AJ-sl7be Because they have different genes running through their blood or because they come from poor neighbourhoods? Please think twice before you state your fact based research, because you aren't thinking critically. It is all socio economic and cultural stuff, nothing to do with a skin color determining iq.

[@AJ-sl7be]

@@itsonlyagame4033 ??? I didn't say anything about genetic differences you just immediately jumped to it. The Op's comment said he lives in a majority Black/Brown Country and I was asking if they did as well as other groups, because it seemed like his comment was implying that they do.

[@MisterMosfet]

All of this can be avoided by simply having graded classes, no race acknowledgement needed, just give them tests to see where each student is in their education fundamentals and place them in a class accordingly.

[@zak2659]

holy shit this guy is living in a very strange reality. I cant understand how people get to this level

[@Voltroc]

And yet they're everywhere now trying to fuck things up with their good intentions.

[@SavageHenry777]

The term Anti-Racism (capitalized) was coined by Ibram X Kendi as part of his movement to redefine racism in a racist way.

[@praetoriancorps]

my suspicion is, if you come up with a method that makes it easier to learn math for people with one racial identity, then that same method probably also makes it easier to learn math for all other racial identities aswell.

[@bluepinkman4488]

That guy hit him with the 1st thing I could think of as a terrible Tom Cruise movie without missing a beat.

[@ProgressiveConservative]

The only actor who I’ve never seen in a bad movie is Leonardo DiCaprio, the man doesn’t miss. His worst movie ever is the man in the iron mask which is extremely impressive considering I still somewhat enjoyed that film.

[@Goulash45]

If you think that’s a bad movie, I question what you’ve seen.

[@Lightningkuriboh]

@@ProgressiveConservative its because Leo has first pick of any script on Hollywood. So he can be extremely selective about what he gets to do and is really good at picking. Tom could be like that, given his profile, but I think he just likes making all types of movies

[@yourgrammarisnotverygood1827]

@@ProgressiveConservative Have you seen Critters 3?

[@bluepinkman4488]

@Jon Teske Yes the only way to fix it would have been if when Tom opened his first sarcophagus and immediately out popped Brendan Frasier, who shoots Tom in the head and then goes about the movie as the main character. In all seriousness, I like a lot of b-movies I like a lot of movies that are so bad they're good, special mention for attack of the killer tomatoes and evil dead 3. But Tom cruise's the mummy was just a painful experience with its only redeeming features being the mildly better cgi than the original movies.