"Disingenuous On So Many Levels" - MikeFromPA vs Hutch | Debate Review

[@destiny]

Do you want debate reviews to be a regular thing?

[@Jrce11]

Yes. Anything that lets me consume more debate content.

[@robotpotato3806]

I don't know, is destiny a girls name?

[@EmirHAbri]

As long as it feeds me in my right

[@bigdickbazuso198]

yes

[@moonmanbamf4075]

Yeah, but someone less disingenuous than Mike from pa would be nice

[@jmwvirgil]

Hutch is actually trying to have a good faith conversation not realising he's talking to an ideologue.

[@Glitch_II]

It's not even necessarily the main issue that he's talking to an ideologue, the main issue is that he's talking to Mikefrompa lol

[@Vizceral]

MikeFromPA ? That's a grifter's name !

[@Splatterbrain7]

Good comment ngl

[@stepdaddy4196]

@Xavier Leon he got his politics from his moms side I bet.

[@veespa_]

this one is probably my favorite version of this comment 👏🏼😏

[@thatindiandude4602]

But does he l9ve Blah peopuh?

[@JohnSmith-yd5wq]

Hes a hack and annoying

[@User-fd6qb]

I dont want Mike right in my feeeeeeed

[@Chronoboost_]

Calling a vote to perma-censor mike

[@veespa_]

@@Chronoboost_ finally, a #ForceTheVote movement that we can all get behind, and it’s one that actually has a possibility of yielding the great outcome that it aims for!

[@User-fd6qb]

@@veespa_ A job for the Central_Committee

[@AnEnemyAnenome]

My favorite part is Destiny pausing the video to say how Hutch can't let Mike get away with something and how he could bring up XYZ to counter.... and then unpauses the video where Hutch proceeds to bring up XYZ to counter

[@lholliday198]

Hutch is pretty smart, I really like him for his open and intelligent thoughts. But goddamn he tries so hard to cater to commies lol

[@AnEnemyAnenome]

@@lholliday198 I just got into Destiny 2 months ago to counter my usual right wing bias. Used to watch Vaush with my nose held on the commie stuff but found Destiny to be way more reasonable and not a psychopath. This is the first I've heard of Hutch I think but I used to watch some old KZbin videos and a guy named hutch was sometimes in them. Not sure if they're related

[@lholliday198]

@@AnEnemyAnenome probably either Mr Sark, Seananners or Gassymexican. They played a lot of games together and still occasionally do. But hutch is pretty based.

[@lholliday198]

@@AnEnemyAnenome Vaush is Destiny but more sheltered and close-minded pretty much.

[@AnEnemyAnenome]

@@lholliday198 yes! That was it. Seananners was the guy I used to watch I feel like a decade ago. I remember Gassy too and Minx and ChilledChaos

[@johnx4816]

Mike is pretty much the Bizarro to Destiny's Superman.

[@lholliday198]

That's "Submit To The Mob" Commie Destiny. Mike is more like the Grundy of the Dest-verse.

[@griggerykimothy4865]

@@lholliday198 in the sense that he just wont die (n a videogame)?

[@manboob5000]

Don't give Mike that much credit.

[@raulboliomartinez6432]

He's more like the Mikasa to Destiny's Erin

[@ronaldmexico1297]

@@raulboliomartinez6432 mike from PA is not mikasa at all

[@writingwithspears9015]

Never knew Hutch was such a masterdebater goddamn

[@ThisWaddle]

is this the same hutch that played with seananners forever ago?

[@WanderTheNomad]

@@TheRhetoricalQuestion sounds like a hell of a ride

[@thatindiandude4602]

@@theludvigmaxis1 this comment hits me a certain type of way. I realised when I grew old, when I "outgrew" certain types of KZbin content.

[@atticushatfield9948]

@@theludvigmaxis1 ur telling me bro. It’s so trippy

[@thatindiandude4602]

@@theludvigmaxis1 same. I stopped gaming, my interests are politics, hisyory and science and I am getting more into fitness and diet.

[@MrShagification]

Why does MikeFromPA even have a fanbase? I hope I never meet one of those people.

[@khirianwingfield9461]

Sam Seders coat tail

[@Hunterchuck]

Same question of why does any grifter have a fanbase to be honest. Just because a person leans progressive doesn't mean that they wont give their narrative in a dishonest way. As someone who would call themselves a Communist it definitely saddens me to see people like Mike continuing to be a public figure. But obviously he would never stop no matter how much he gets dunked on because he makes money from it, hence 'grifter'. 🤷‍♂️

[@ArmadaX96]

Mike gets hosts from Hasan and probably other lefties on Twitch. He also has two oilers that gift sub like fucking crazy. Also radical politics are sexy for the specific demographic that goes on Twitch.

[@thatindiandude4602]

Jimmy Dore has a massive fan base. Leftists mock conservatives for being brain dead. There us no lie in that. But leftists are easily as manipulated I have found out in these recent years. Especially when you have a rigid ideology and when you find information you filter the information to soothe your ego.

[@Hunterchuck]

@@thatindiandude4602 You might be looking in the wrong direction if you are talking about leftist being as easily manipulated as conservatives. I assume this due to your mention of Jimmy Dore.

[@jeanlucbergman479]

Damn, Hutch is fucking based.

[@thatindiandude4602]

More importantly, he is smart.

[@dantel4170]

​@@thatindiandude4602 i would argue being based is better than smart

[@Jay-zt1pq]

@@dantel4170 that's because you're based 😎

[@WhayYay]

Is this the hutch from mw2 call of duty

[@NoahTheTank]

@@WhayYay Yeah, I didn't realize he did politics nowadays either

[@TheFreshTrumpet]

"I've stopped assuming their intentions when they speak bc people are just way dumber than I thought originally" YES this reminds me of my favorite quote "don't assume malice where ignorance can also apply." This has always been my biggest critique of destiny's debate style, he's a lot quicker to assume that someone's being intentionally disingenuous or bad faith, and then when he accuses ppl of that they act confused because they *genuinely* disagree and think they're arguing honestly, and in their mind they are! They don't realize how biased and illogical they're being, so accusing them of doing it purposely is next-level useless.

[@HippopotamusPencil]

Agree completely, I had the same reaction when I started watching him argue. It's not just useless, it's completely counter-productive; if they weren't defensive and obsessed over optics before Destiny accused them of being disingenuous, then they certainly are after.

[@TheFreshTrumpet]

@@HippopotamusPencil preach. I respect that getting someone’s defensive reaction is an entertaining money maker but if he ever wants to convince his convo counter part to reconsider their shit, I’d imagine a more David Pakman style will be far more effective. I like Destiny’s politics more than David’s but my respect for Pakman grows every time I watch him bc he doesn’t assume the worst about someone’s intentions like Destiny does so often. Not that I necessarily blame him for doing so, considering the cesspool that is his online office lol but still

[@dantel4170]

thats a really cool quote

[@Crispman_777]

Thing is, when discussing real world topics like policy even if they are acting in bad faith it doesn't matter. As long as you stick to the original question/topic/premise you can usually just crush them with their own illogical thought processes. You do need to know about the topic but you get the best of both worlds that way.

[@TheFreshTrumpet]

@@Crispman_777 yup agreed, and I interpret that as being task oriented and not ego oriented, it’s satisfying to try calling someone out for being disingenuous but it’s better to stick with the points of an argument and try your best to leave the motivations of your counterpart out of it. It’s funny cuz I hear Destiny say “you can never prove someone’s intentions” a lot but he still sometimes brings it up and i’m just like, bruh there’s nothing constructive to be gained from this lol except entertainment value, which is understandable for a streamer to seek ig. Idk i’m just ranting at this point haha thanks for sharing your thoughts

[@roymarshall_]

"Destiny is a" BLAM BLAM BLAM we got em boys

[@Blahcub]

But is it not the name of a woman.

[@neildepressedtyson540]

Before you call Destiny a BLAM BLAM BLAM first you have to ground your BLAMs

[@fabiobalassia]

I'm sorry, I don't see how that relates to the fact that Destiny is a girl's name.

[@mimo3121]

Honey! destiny just uploaded a new video, time for your daily "that's a women's name" meme 😊

[@smokeymidnight5032]

My favorite part of my daily routine right up there with my morning coffee.

[@RossMellow]

Destiny? Thatsa nonbinary name

[@funkmonk5921]

Destiny -that’s a “inescapable fate that’s meant to be” name

[@Scardor]

Whamin?

[@rogersmith996]

This is such a complicated issue. I already expected both left and right wing populists to spin this to their narrative

[@BigDaddyFreud]

Who's the right wing populist in this equation?

[@SuperSupermanX1999]

@@BigDaddyFreud he's speaking generally, not about this specific conversation, but I've already seen r/conservative getting excited about it. a prime opportunity to take advantage of people's ignorance to point out alleged hypocrisy

[@griggerykimothy4865]

@@SuperSupermanX1999 thats actually how i became aware of it lol a friend posted a meme and when i googled it, the first 10 results were conservative op eds calling it blatant hypocrisy. I actually had to scroll to find the reporting of it

[@SuperSupermanX1999]

@@leontate8805 I mean, the terrible conditions the children were being kept in is absolutely a major part of the problem and people have always been right to point it out

[@BigDaddyFreud]

@@SuperSupermanX1999 I kinda assumed that's what he meant but I'm not that familiar with Hutch so I wasn't sure, thanks for the clarification.

[@AtlasCrafted]

When you stop paying attention and suddenly wonder why everyone is talking so insanely fast.... I need sleep

[@MlSTERSANDMAN]

2 times on Destiny videos is often a mistake...

[@AtlasCrafted]

@@MlSTERSANDMAN Lol when he gets worked up omg

[@charlieme2295]

@@MlSTERSANDMAN whatdoyoumean?

[@platosghost6916]

YES! Destiny is finally realizing how subconsciously people apply rhetoric. Most people he thinks are acting in bad faith are just genuinely unaware of what they are doing. Thats why they always project things like "getting gotchas" onto him, because that's what they are actually trying to do. Most people think argument is purely about rhetoric and not actually about having cogent arguments.

[@JJ-hd9po]

August thank you for your upload speed. I work overnights so I always have the condensed video of "the argument" the night before ready for me. WE LOVE YOU

[@tremolo2109]

Counter point to the "feminism has resulted in lower birth rate" - part of this is the change to the economy such that two income households are the norm - if minimum wage had kept up with cost of living, single-income households would be more common. Lots of people genuinely don't like to have full time jobs and would rather be parents and home makers, including some men. Also, if there was paid parental leave for both men and women, that would definitely help. I mean, I do agree that feminism has resulted in women who don't want to have children not having children, but there are also lots of people who want children and are delaying for other reasons. For the birthrate reduction that's actually attributable to people having more freedom to make their own choices, I recognize that it's real and I'm fine with it

[@andriy_tato]

You're not supposed to maintain a family with minimal wage - that's not what it's purposed for(not to mention that minimum wage is a bad concept, to begin with).

[@tremolo2109]

@@andriy_tato you're clueless, my dude

[@andriy_tato]

@@Fearcely To destroy small businesses, that's why.

[@andriy_tato]

@@Fearcely Unless you have a business yourself I doubt you have a clue yourself.

[@andriy_tato]

@@Fearcely A living wage is different for every person, depending on their needs.. A minimum wage is paid for low-skill jobs that would be considered by students, people who want their first working experience, or perhaps immigrants who are desperate for any job. Sustaining a family with these kinds of jobs is unrealistic - those people should aim for better jobs.

[@myragingwhormoans]

thank god, a destiny video to eat my breakfast with

[@lolololololololololoololol]

@@nightfallgloam i can see your point, but the real question is do you luh black people?

[@myragingwhormoans]

@Andrew Stevenson can't get enough of my chicken strips

[@MrJesusisreal]

it's lunch time

[@arthurcallahan4735]

Same.

[@WanderTheNomad]

A Destiny video to go right with your feeeeeed.

[@Kazic5000]

Damn, Hutch finally chrome domed it? I still had the image of him from the machinima respawn days in my head. Completely didn't recognize him.

[@kloakheesten]

Yo he was in machinima respawn? That's pretty cool

[@lesclaypoolonbass9431]

@M S him, seananners, and tejb were my favorites

[@1999_reborn]

Crazy how I used to watch Hutch's MW2 videos when I was like 11 years old. Now I'm 21 and he shows up on Destiny's stream. Brings back memories.

[@interycreeper1152]

22:20 yeah, you can actually see the moment really well in the VOD. Destiny points out that Vaush uses rhetoric, Vaush says he doesnt know what Destiny means and then Destiny responds by saying that 'you might not know it, but youre doing it'

[@AnimeFan9833]

"You use rhetoric" is such a meaningless statement. Rhetoric isn't the opposite of logic and it's not something that can ever be avoided in expressing ideas.

[@interycreeper1152]

@@AnimeFan9833 yeah but both can be convincing and therefore used as substitute. Which was Destinys criticism Im sure

[@YourService977]

How good is Hutch in this. been watching him for like 10 years and he has blown me away with his political understanding and engagement recently.

[@bcs259]

I never knew who he was until recently but he seems pretty good to me. I’m glad destiny reviewed this because I might actually watch some of his material now.

[@YourService977]

his video on the 2nd trump impeachment, i think its called "the case against donald trump" is a great starting point. i highly reccomend, especially if you didnt get to watch the trial in real time.

[@mattalxdr]

NO SECTIONS IN THE VIDEO REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[@OhWellWhatTheHell1]

46:43 Manchin is absolutely a necessary evil we should keep so long as we get another D for key votes. Sinema (I think) votes somewhat to the right of where you'd expect her to vote based on her AZ constituents' votes. I think it's okay to push her to be more in line with mainstream Dem positions or even primary her if necessary

[@legin777]

I think you're being too charitable with your idea that Mike and Vaush aren't being bad faith. Vaush outright said he thought it was good to lie for a cause, so long as the cause promotes his ideology. I could be wrong but I just can't see believing anything he says from now on.

[@croesuslydias6488]

@Xavier Leon lmao he literally said it’s better to lie to someone so long as they side with you in the end. It’s psychopath behavior my guy

[@legin777]

@Xavier Leon Thats what he said about that specific case. The position stated to Destiny in they're debate about philosophy tube was that he was fine with content creators being wrong, even if they are doing it intentionally. Because he sees leftist content creators as the opposition to fascism. So his logic leads to "it's fine to lie so long as you label those you oppose as fascists." And I'll even grant that say during WW2 I would accept lying about some specifics of the war to beat the Nazis, but that line of thought severely weakens your position. Because eventually you'll be found out and then when actual fascists show up, no one cares. Or your' group ends up becoming so extremist that you end up creating the authoritarians that you were originally fearful of. Sorry about the long response man.

[@thatindiandude4602]

@@croesuslydias6488 listen to his convo with perspective philosophy. Opened my eyes.

[@AnimeFan9833]

@@croesuslydias6488 VDS

[@theeggdover1243]

Yeeees daddy destiny, teees, feeds us some Mike From PA drama, we have missed it

[@Wesker3996]

Mike is slowly becoming one of the main villains in the DCU and I must say I am all for it...

[@TecTitan]

Your comment was from a better time and I envy the mind state you had then. Today the main villains have no balance. There's no appeal to them.

[@Wesker3996]

@@TecTitan I mean Mr.Redacted is probably the greatest villain in a long time. Everyone else pales in comparison.

[@DaRkJoKeR77]

Mike from PA more like Mike from Pivot gottem

[@blackfangofargentina]

MarkFromCcp gotta be one or my favorite destiny villains

[@MonoxideTF2]

Redacted!? Thats a Mike from PA’s name.

[@electric4224]

That intro moment was godstiny enough to watch on stream, in the intro, and in the vid

[@sgtduckduck]

"They just don't want to live in Kansas, Ohio, Nebraska etc..." Yeah Idk man I wouldn't mind but I would be making less money if I did. And I can just afford to buy a house now so ... idk man. Not everyone has an internet job.

[@Hunterchuck]

Yeah this is a valid point to bring up by you. It might be hard to understand that just moving to a different location doesn't mean that life suddenly improves due to the housing being cheaper. There are local economics to take into account too which even a delusional conservative knows about. "Cheaper living but lower pay" Maybe Destiny recognizes this but most of his arguments make it sound like he doesn't understand it. It's a weird feeling due to the way he argues and how much he doesn't clarify lol

[@hoominbeeing]

@@Hunterchuck Maybe destiny could be talking about the pay and cost differential? For example, it could be possible that amount of pay that lowers for you in Nebraska is less than the price fall of houses in the area. So, (as an example) maybe you made 50 per hour in NYC but the houses were 1 mil. But you might make 45 in Nebraska where the houses might be 100k.

[@Hunterchuck]

@@hoominbeeing This is assuming a lot here. 1. "It could be possible" that the cost differential is favorable to the person moving there. 2. We are assuming that the person can find a job that 'might' pay enough to account for the cost differential. 3. We are assuming that the person can take such a risk to move to a different state. Not everyone has money to afford a long move-out to a different area where they are now looking for a new job. ---- The "Just move" argument was what got Destiny into some trouble in the past even if he didn't want to acknowledge it. We have to assume that these people who we expect to move have made more than $26,000/year and saved up some money that can afford them the risk. The "just move" argument Destiny made in the past was mostly just focused on minimum wage people somehow still living in expensive areas and needing to move since their livelihood depended on it. It was more of a hyperbolic perspective he gave that made it agreeable. The normal case is that people are getting by but not by much and the gradual increase in the cost of living has crept up on people to the point where they are in a predicament where they have to decide if they should take the risk to move or continue to stay with their current job and struggle until something good happens.

[@sgtduckduck]

@@Hunterchuck Yeah this is a more fair reading. And on that point I not only agree with Destiny, but I've literally done it. We decided 2 years ago to move to the worse part of our State and just accept the minor commute. It was actually a huge issue initially because we have a daughter and sending her to a worse school was a hard pill to swallow and definitely an issue I rarely see discussed. We found ways around it but that isn't always an option and I know plenty of families that pay a 20-30% rent premium to that their children don't go to school with metal detectors and low ratings. It honestly makes me so angry that 'will my kid get an ok education' is even a factor that people have to take into account when deciding where to live in a 50 mile radius. USA GOOD.

[@hoominbeeing]

@@Hunterchuck I definitely agree there are additional costs that go into it and that it probably is not feasible for many people. I was just trying to be good faith about destiny's position. From my understanding listening to him, he didn't say "lol poor ppl should just move to get rid of their situation", I heard moving can be a solution for *some* people who are poor" which I am sure we can all agree with.

[@devalapar7878]

53:00 The gerrymandering problem would be alleviated by creating districts of same size (same number of people). Anything else wouldn't even make sense, because representatives have to represent people and they must represent the same amount of people.

[@DaxSports1]

I honestly thought Mike from PA was a alter ego of Michael Scott.

[@sghost128]

What I'm hearing is that if these facilities were built by Jesus, then all this would be fine. EDIT: Also if you want to get really technical, it actually wasn't built by Trump. It was build by a construction company, but I literally don't understand why it matters.

[@godwings101]

Destiny's hatred of the left has unironically brought him full circle onto the "sneaky debate tactics" meme against Vaush. It's really telling.

[@chrisbrowy929]

what

[@zompocalpha1]

@@chrisbrowy929 I would like to second that "what"?

[@WitherSnow]

As a conservative the bad faith interpritations from Mike & Hutch as to why we are stricter on borders is super cringe. You can see plainly that they make no effort to understand the other side. This is why Twitch is so toxic & marginalizing to us conservatives. I understand why the cages thing sucks & I think more federal money should go to making them better. But this is just a shitty situation all together & acting like all ICE members hate immigrants or screaming open borders just won't solve a damn thing for 1 migrant.

[@justice1911]

Mike from PA and his learn to code point actually wasn’t a bad take. Props for actually saying something that makes sense one time.

[@mood1676]

43:00 destiny blames feminists for our generations economic problems. If i heard him correctly, because women go after a career instead of a family, we now have issues buying homes? Idk, i might blame student debt, lack of job opportunity and low wages mixed with high rent. Not to mention healthcare and declines in mental health. Destiny’s argument is extremely weak

[@recoilAbs]

Just your regular neoliberal dummy

[@zanewilson4273]

Another vod right in my feeeeeeeeeeeeeed

[@chandler7493]

Getting rid of gerrymandering doesn't mean getting rid of deliberate drawing of maps. Just taking it out of the hands of partisan political operatives armed with precision data technology.

[@lovesource6436]

Protect Hutch at all costs

[@Twistedhippy]

Doxing Mike from PA?? .....damm

[@jpizzlether8r176]

I would LOVE for Destiny to have a full discourse on pros and cons of gerry mandering as it stands now. Fascinates me

[@sonneh88]

When is Destiny planning to fix Hutch's mic.

[@robokaos69]

Why is Hutch's microphone so bass heavy My fucking ears

[@sirlaggzzalot]

Right in my feed? that's a name's name what a mess!

[@stevenhayes859]

Hutch who doesn't even know that the AR in AR-15 doesn't stand for assault rifle as he's falsely stated on a panel debate. So he just spreads misinformation and thinks he's so knowledgeable.

[@niccolomachiavelli1512]

I disagree with you on some issues Destiny but I really appreciate your logical consistency.

[@darkfeign]

Hutch if you're reading this. Waaaay too much compression. It's like you're talking through a tin can on a string.

[@qactus4031]

DESTINY THATS A GIRLS NAME

[@Jahzyboy]

Good one🙂

[@Demon7899]

AMAZIN

[@polosaquarium691]

True

[@leajey4279]

Its a non-binary name

[@Troonielicious]

Beta

[@BRobMint]

Mike had one debate where he came off reasonable. Then he went off the rails ever since.

[@mal1cious_]

broken clocks be like

[@DalleDayul]

Which debate?

[@BRobMint]

@@DalleDayul The first one he had with Destiny

[@TotalNonsense_]

Hutch’s content has grown along with me and it’s a trip

[@tomasboffa9441]

Is that jack septic eye?

[@TheKnizzine]

I like how everyone hates filibuster until they lose the majority.

[@courtschmied]

Hutch! Hutch! Hutch! I just like him. Funny dude.

[@Troonielicious]

Cringe

[@lssnow8195]

Gerrymandering is good actually because you can also gerrymander - Destiny 2021 Rightwing arc season 1

[@bigboy2217]

Gerrymandering is bad but it’s bipartisan. Right wingers don’t have a monopoly on the districting systems nor are they the only ones to abuse them. It’s a non issue from a political power perspective.

[@mood1676]

28:00 destiny getting ads for child cages 😂

[@josephschofield2601]

What a dumb take by Mike. I’ve been a foster parent and there are so many kids who need homes right now. You CANNOT place them as they cross the border. There just aren’t enough willing homes and plenty I know have been driven by the money so is that actually a better place to send them, even if it was possible?

[@FrostySumo]

The key to fixing our politics is always been a robust Voting Rights Act. Increase the amount of people allowed to vote. Make voting over a longer time like the weekend or make the Day a holiday. Implement ranked-choice voting as the standard. Get corporate money out of politics and only allows small donations and a small government-provided stipend to keep a campaign going and the small donations from the people will make more popular people rise to the top in primaries. That's the most you could do in one legislative act. The entire makeup of the country would change in the next election. Also don't forget about getting rid of gerrymandering.

[@shanecorrigan8524]

I’m from pa; really makes a man think

[@Coryameta]

I want a oversight committee made up of civilians (Teachers, doctors, mental specialists, CPS representatives for the children) and governmental officials made of local officials and a few federal House and Senate members. As a lefty I want 2 of our people on this committee such a rep Omar, AOC, Jayapal, Sanders etc. The HHS will have the chairman spot and 2 deputy chairman spots to fill. This along with transparency of the operations at these facilities would be the best course for now. Also this committee needs to meet biweekly and submit a public report after each meeting. Press should also have access to the facilities upon request and vetting.

[@roberthill5805]

The nonprofit is a massive money sink, costing about $600-$800 a day per child. This is why some people refer to it as a for profit for the nonprofit, as it is extremely inefficient.

[@indiahodgson3816]

If anyone wants a history grad’s basic understanding of US immigration policy - it not true that we’ve basically had open immigration until recently. The late 1800s and early 1900s saw the introduction of quotas for people from certain areas, for example the Chinese Exclusion Acts of 1882 and 1925. We mostly policed immigration as people came in, and there wasn’t an infrastructure to track down immigrants and deport them. Policy enforcement has gotten more effective, but the US has always had intense fearmongering about immigrants.

[@voxling]

Yessss, I'm loving this season of the leftie arc

[@steveng6704]

Instead of eliminating the filibuster, we should focus on reforming the filibuster.

[@spacetoast7783]

Reforming it to what?

[@steveng6704]

@@spacetoast7783 Make the filibuster a 55 vote threshold, not 60.

[@spacetoast7783]

@@steveng6704 I'm open to that, but just remember it can be used against you in the future.

[@ice9055]

Not even ten minutes in and I'm already pissed off at the distortion of history relating to the Naturalization Act of 1790 that kept being extended from two years to fourteen years in order to become a citizen on a federal level for whites and state level for blacks until it was repealed in 1805(?), how Operation Wetback/racial slur was actually somewhat supported by the Mexican government after correspondance with the US relating to illegal immigration, and lastly the Mexican American War under President Polk that was literally initiated by the Thorton Affair in 1846.

[@BonShula]

I have to concentrate really bad to hear the conversation. Destiny is living in 1.75

[@Will-om5wb]

I was born 20 miles from Carrizo Springs.

[@pieshu]

Good video

[@Acolyte00]

"Spiderman and Superman manga" What a chad

[@thecreekrat69]

I agree with hutch. Didn’t see that coming

[@Enthusiasm441]

Oh no. Why is Mike in my feeeeeeeeeeed?

[@drunkenlancer5895]

So MikeFromPA got on an elevator....

[@GenshinX]

There is a foster system for unaccompanied minors, but like the parents thing, they children need to be processed themselves and sent to facilities that will be able to manage them. Once they move from the bigger facilities, they are moved to smaller ones with less people, until they are finally moved to more group home type facilities that cater to less than ten per house. It would probably help if this Mike guy's explanation for what should be done, wasn't already being done.

[@WhenItsHalfPastFive]

I don't know, I agreed with MikeFromPA in most of this. They should be placed in a foster system and given a home ASAP. The facility under this Biden administration might not be a cage, but it's still a box with bars and a little air conditioning. We can do better than this Juvenile detention center-style shit.

[@marifrit2490]

Such a foster system would never exist and would make no sense. There simply are not many people interested adopting random child immigrants crossing the border. Not to mention the issue that most of these children in fact have surviving family members and it would be pretty weird using the US government to take away the children of foreigners. Leaving us with the only tenable option which is temporary detention until children can be reunited with their family.

[@WhenItsHalfPastFive]

@@marifrit2490 "Such a foster system would never exist" just because it doesn't exist right now doesn't mean we can't create and fund one. We need to house these children, they're just children, they haven't committed a crime. Not treat them like juveniles and put em in cages/boxes.

[@MagicBrianTricks]

Anyone think Hutch sounds like Seder?

[@thesensiblesocialist]

Except he doesn't punctuate every three words with 'uuuuhhhhhh'

[@registeel2000]

Did anyone else notice the advertisements for kids playpen on the website he was on? almost like "kids in cages"....

[@jonh5941]

Ok why does destiny think there is work in Nebraska cities are an economic force of nature that you just cannot replicate elsewhere. But yes I agree most of us can afford homes elsewhere but we may miss out on other opportunities that a city may present

[@coolroxas]

Destiny in review arc

[@andrewscarpati9665]

I may not be well versed enough on this topic, but doesn't the filibuster cut both ways? Why do people want it unilaterally removed from politics? It seems that whenever either side cuts something that prevents or delays a slight majority from pushing through whatever they want, that initial side winds up regretting it.

[@1999_reborn]

Hutch always sounds like he just chain smoked 60 packs of cigarettes

[@aaronsmith9823]

We don’t need a “place to hold them” and we don’t have to “leave them with strangers” though.......we can sufficiently help them and try to reunite families. We just are brainwashed to think this isn’t fundamentally possible. It is, and it doesn’t take billions and trillions of rando tax dollars

[@wren4077]

This has me curious. Can you point me to whatever you read to make you think its possible to do this without substantial difficulty that everyone seems to assume. Thanks

[@PsyfadZ10]

We can throw them, literally throw them, back home. How about that?

[@aaronsmith9823]

@@PsyfadZ10 yeah let’s start with you and your European family

[@AnimeFan9833]

This has nothing to do with needing a place to hold them. What the hell are you going to do with them while searching for their family? What about those who don't happen to have a relative willing to take them in the US?

[@MMAGamblingTips]

What does Destinys new member sound effect say?

[@Avenger222]

I think MikeFromPA just cares about rhetoric and doesn't care how bad faith he needs to be to keep it.

[@Hunterchuck]

This should be obvious due to him being a streamer though. He's been dunked on too many times and we've even seen clips of him recognizing his own bad faith but trying to ignore it. As long as people pay him then that gives him the incentive to continue doing what he's doing. The more scary part is that there are a lot of people who like to watch him and donate to him. Similar to anyone who makes money doing political talks, right?

[@Avenger222]

@@Hunterchuck Yeah, totally agree. With the exception of "Similar to anyone who makes money doing political talks, right?" since you can make money from political talks without sacrificing good faith in exchange for optics, though this does happen a lot, for sure.

[@Hunterchuck]

@@Avenger222 I would disagree. I don't think it's possible to give arguments in good faith 100% of the time since i've never seen this done before. The same can be said of a bias right? Everyone is biased but the important part is whether or not facts and data supports the biases. I think it's easy to come off in good faith most of the time but there will always be situations where it's not optimal for the cause to be good faith. This is why I think it's impossible to be good faith 100% of the time and probably why I have never seen someone be good faith 100% of the time. 🤷‍♂️

[@Avenger222]

@@Hunterchuck So someone needs to be good faith 100% of the time, in order to be someone that acts in good faith? If someone lies once, does that mean they are always a liar? Or would you say conversations/arguments/discussions can be done in good faith, even if they had even a single instance where that didn't occur? Just curious.

[@Hunterchuck]

@@Avenger222 Most of the time that's how it works in most peoples minds. If they lie a few time then they are considered a liar. I don't think anyone has ever lied only once to be honest. And the case of bad faith works the same for people. Destiny for example definitely believes that Vaush is bad faith and uses 'tactics' to push a leftist narrative. I think the concept of good/bad faith is very subjective though since it can heavily depend on how a person interprets the arguments. I would say that this topic of conversation can become very complex and philosophical. I would also say that I agree with your perspective that i personally wouldn't say that someone is wholly a liar if they lie a few times or they're bad faith if their arguments come off as bad faith. As i'm talking to you i'm starting to realize just how complex this can become and i'm not sure i could even give a conclusive answer on what is really the correct way of thinking. Very interesting top of conversation in my opinion lol

[@TeQuilloni]

Mike is insane

[@jackpotjackpotjackpot]

I’m lovin all this Mike from Redacted content

[@chadgiga4213]

Destiny? thats not even a proper noun.

[@WanderTheNomad]

Oh sweet, a video under an hour. I prefer these shorter videos.

[@mood1676]

Ok im 13min in and mike from PA is spitting facts so far 🤷‍♂️

[@calvin158]

wtf 800 bucks a day to house a migrant kid? thats absurd some people pay 800 a month in rent, how could it be so expensive to hold migrant kids in a facility lol.

[@okayzimbabwe]

Anyone else LOVE Hutch but can't stand his mic? Gah.

[@Wartoz]

Hi Mike :) How was your day? Don't forget to downvote the video on the right.

[@TheQuantixXx]

wasnt hutch some cod youtuber back in 2010?

[@zvxcvxcz]

Destiny, your guest that wrote the book is likely wrong on gerrymandering and mail in ballots. The nightmare scenario he paints for gerrymandering is pretty much what we have right now, it would be insane for a non-partisan body to draw a worse map. The idea that any sort of neutral map by any of the generally considered metrics for a neutral map would be worse is just silly. Arkansas is a poor example for this because it actually isn't a state with a Democratic majority. That said... even non-partisan bodies can draw bad maps out of sheer ignorance (e.g. getting the stupid idea that each district should reflect the statewide balance between parties... which in reality IS gerrymandering). The difficulty on this issue has been to define a criteria for a fair map that everyone agrees is fair, absent that almost anything can be considered gerrymandering. Some of these states really have been optimized pretty heavily by the Republicans though and would benefit from anything even remotely neutral because they are already not far from the worst case. On mail in ballots, part of the issue they have is that the effect is difficult to measure. Recently a Stanford study found 0.9% in favor of Democrats after controlling for existing trends... wasn't statistically significant, but if they had a larger sample size it may be more confirmed. So sure, that is "statistically neutral," but that isn't a sure thing. The thing is, theirs is not the only ones to find this effect, and if one were to compile that data and do a meta-analysis, it is quite likely that there would be a small statistically significant trend for the Democrats. There is also generally increased turnout among younger people (older voters already took advantage of absentee voting, typically claiming a physical mobility issue, one of the most common allowed reasons, whereas work-related absenteeism is allowed in far fewer states). This can change by generation, but right now anything favoring the young vote favors the Democrats.

[@parkerlincoln49]

I dont think destiny reads these comments but yeah we had effectively no laws restricting immigration in America until around the 1890s with Chinese Exclusion and even still we didn't add more restrictions until later. Fuentes tried to frame it like the naturalization act allowed white people in but they were just the only ones who could be naturalized, if you could make it here you were a immigrant.

[@justinbarnes6328]

SRO hotels (with security at the entrances)would be cheaper and have better standards of living

[@allesgoenner]

wait mike isn't actually disagreeing with hutch on the 3 premisses d mentioned but the critique is on the "how". Both of them are trying to make sense of an undoubtedly bad situation and discuss what kind of changes need to happen to reach a more favorable situation. d turns the this good faith discussion into nonsense debate which it isn't

[@ataridc]

Vaush/Hasan sub who isn't even subbed to Destiny

[@ImBackLikeHerpes]

Wait, but in the segment Hutch is directly making a statement about how amongst people on the left the holding center/detention facilities/etc for children do not seem like a popular idea, but with these premises in mind we need something like that. And Mike does move to contend with that. He doesn’t say “yeah we need them but x” he goes over how they are bad and says we should get kids to their parents and if they don’t have parents or family members to return to they go foster homes. But like Hutch just said while we figure out these things, make sure any familiar we turn them over to is appropriate we need a place to hold them. Call it a good faith discussion or whatever, but there is a level of not addressing the point that does have negative impact on discourse.

[@allesgoenner]

@@ImBackLikeHerpes the problem is that the core of the message is literally just "the facility's at hand and the current procedure of handling children does not fulfill a standard that can or should be considered enough" which is something both would agree on the whole "figuring things out part" is additionally problematic since this isn't something nobody knew about or happened overnight and agitating for progress in the right direction is one of if not the biggest roles a progressive pundit has obviously you can't be like "oh well things aren't too great right now but since it takes some time to accomplish change ill just have to trust the administration and keep my concerns to myself " look I don't like this mike guy he's kind of an egocentric weirdo but he has every right to agitate and push for change the discourse dies if everyone would have the d attitude and I promise if the public eye is off the topic the figuring things out part will take the whole presidential term

[@allesgoenner]

@@ataridc is it a requirement to unsubscribe Hasan and vaush and sub to destiny to watch the vid and comment on it?

[@ImBackLikeHerpes]

@@allesgoenner thanks for taking the time to respond, but what you’re talking about does not reflect that disagreement they were having if you follow the back and forth. Hutch makes a very specific claim. He sets up the three premises and says this means we need these places hold kids if those three premises are correct. With final conclusion that people aren’t aware of this they don’t understand the situation at the border so when they rage at this there is a lack of understanding. Mike sort of solidifies he’s point in multiple ways. He first puts a razor focus on it being Trump Era which doesn’t tell you anything about quality of the center and Hutch pushes back on that. He also says “ICE agents treat people at the centers badly so do not trust them” Hutch points out these are not controlled by ICE, these are controlled by HHS so that doesn’t come into play here. And then Mike makes a point about kids in cages and Hutch pushes back again and that this center does not have those cages which Mike responds oh so it’s only “literal” cages that matter and makes a point about kids getting held anywhere and I can’t remember if mentioned separating kids from their parents, but that’s not what this center does. The center is just for holding kids until we have found a proper place for them. The discussion you’re suggesting they are having would be better than all of that I agree. I think Hutch even says it himself that we need activist holding people accountable and I don’t think Destiny would disagree with that. But the point at the core is people need to be more informed when engaging with this so they do not target things unnecessarily.

[@Zocress]

Anyone would have to admit that countries need to be able to hold migrant children. The focus should be on holding as few as necessary (not forcing them from their parents) and make sure they have a decent standing of living in the government's care. This means food, hygiene, and education. You can't let them sleep on concrete floors in cages made of chain-linked fences. But the government has to house them somehow and attempt to resolve to get them released into a family member or guardian's care as quickly as possible. Whether it is inside or outside of the country.

[@synthiandrakon]

Wait he's mad at the price of the facility???? Are we supposed to cheap out when locking up kids????