"Devs Play" S01E05 - Doom 2/Bioshock (Part 11 - Arcadia Demade) 60fps [Bonus]

[@brutecold_]

wish more guys would talk about the industry like John does, hard to hear anything from a founder. thanks double fine for making those videos!!!

[@fisherkyle91]

It's really, and let me stress, REALLY cool to see Romero come back to all the ideas of game design and point out the bits of the game that he had designed. He seems so chill and easy going, I would love to buy him a beer.

[@MattLohkamp]

I really like watching these guys hang out - because it seems like, on the one hand, they're both kind of trying to impress eachother, or oneup eachother a little - but on the other hand they're both being impressed with eachother and taking eachother seriously. I love how JP is stuck between wanting to explain everything to Romero and wanting Romero to just get it himself, and how Romero has a lot of, "Oh I like the stuff the kids are doing these days" kinds of comments. :D

[@will5948]

I can't remember which part it was but I remember JP explaining how he had to do something really convoluted in a game before and John was all "you could have just done it this way" - awkward silence, cut to next clip.

[@ronaldjames6067]

Funny how John is looking for secrets everywhere.

[@doomguy8324]

This is so awesome...to see John play another designer's interpretation of his game and just chill with him and make comments...true mark of a cool dude...doubt most people in the industry would do that nowadays....

[@doomguy8324]

Sage Maneja other than mod db not really. Markiv has some listed on there..

[@GabrielRotar]

This episode was the icing on the top. And man JP was so excited when John was playing his level, that is some potent fandom going on there.

[@Metal555Fan]

I'm seriously loving this series of "Devs Play", John Romero and JP are such cool guys. Thank you for all these videos, DoubleFine!

[@007KopyKat]

I loved this series and i love listening to Mr. Romero talk about Doom and games in general. Really hope to see more of him here in the future.

[@theacematt2]

Kickass. Very glad to have caught this :). Please do more if at all possible with other game designers/developers!

[@ookiemand]

You're living my dream, of having John Romero play and comment on your level ! :) I think Romero and other world class game designers could have a very successful twitch/youtube channel if he plays levels and games as a reviewer :)

[@cosbyc2]

I really enjoyed these videos with John Romero. I'd love to see more of these with someone from the unreal team or from 3d realms with something similar but with duke nukem 3d. Hell if John Romero had time it would be real interesting to see his take on Duke 3d as it was the competing game around the time of these. It would be real interesting to see his insight on what other devs did.

[@FoxInferno13]

I'd love to see stuff just from all the original id guys like Carmack or Tom Hall!

[@SiGhast]

Love that the guy calls a map for his own 20-year-old game "Minecrafty".

[@defectivenull]

i mean, he is using texture filtering in a fairly modern port so

[@inceptional]

I actually don't like when enemies repopulate an area I've already cleared. In fact, this is one of the reasons why I loved Doom 1/2 because when you clear an area it's clear, as it should be, and you even get to see the enemies you've killed lying around for the rest of the time, both as a reminder of all the killing you've done but also as a nice marker of where you've already been. Also; John's right about the levels in so many modern fps games feeling rather static because usually they're more about making the geometry simply look real and detailed, without any real possible interaction with most of the geometry a lot of the time, than making levels that live and breath with actual motion and change etc. Seriously; there's a lot of stuff Doom just did brilliantly. One thing is how Doom handles damage for example; where rather than showing annoying hit indicator arrows onscreen, which I hate, it actually knocks the player in the appropriate direction relative to the impact of the projectile that hit them. Also; the players head wincing and looking around on the HUD is a nice little touch too.

[@denniscarr9234]

It's freaking amazing that Romero essentially lives in a deathmatch map

[@matttdb]

Yes! Thank you so much for this. So fun to watch you guys talk about levels and design.

[@aphexjh]

37:16 this system of loading reference geometry, doors in this case, is very similar to the method used to create complex spaces, such as city blocks, in Call of Duty. And while it sounds like the implementation was more complicated in Quake, the ability to "step into" these smaller referenced bsp areas/maps is incredibly helpful. Its like clearing everything off the desk except for the one thing you are working on. Now that I think about it, a similar prefab/reference methodology exists in 3d applications, like 3ds max and maya. It sounds like Quake was ahead of its time, it would have been interesting to see what would have happened if John C could have shepherded that functionality through to the final release. - Edit: Also, the whole reference thing let's a lot of people work on one scene at the same time, and I now remember that Id tech 5 (Rage, Wolf) does it this way. So it seems like this philosophy that eventually caught on, was there from really early on. Cool stuff. sry for the text block.

[@zoltanormosi5617]

"- It is a big wad." "- Yeah well, we are only through half of it." "*-Maniacal laugh.*"

[@sichernicht3642]

That was amazing. Great talk, great level! Thank you for this!

[@fifth_elephant]

Amazing vid again. I love watching stuff with Romero, he seems like such a lovely person. :)

[@flurrymcflufffluff]

Loves this series! so great that you had one last episode :D

[@Scerttle]

This definitely makes me want to play the original Bioshock again. Lot of appreciation for that game.

[@MrFathead]

I demand that you make more of this.

[@JustAndre92]

Learning that John's never played _BioShock_ is weirdly disheartening for some reason. XD (Also, John's head standing in for the Little Sister peeking out through the vent is the single greatest thing I've ever seen.)

[@mannion1985]

I'll bet this is pretty much what a job interview with John Romero is like.

[@Scerttle]

John Romero has made me realise that I want a level designer to be the architect for my dream house :P

[@butsutekkai1]

Hah, this is brilliant! One of my favourite levels in Bioshock!

[@butsutekkai1]

If I was sat with John Romero playing through one of my levels, I'd be _dying_ lol. He did well to keep it together, it must've been a surreal, but awesome time :D

[@rgerber]

that secret at the end was epic :D

[@marscaleb]

Man I've got this video playing in the background while I'm fooling around in Unity, and I'm just thinking of how impossibly cool it would be to have any developer of note looking at my work, let alone someone as legendary as John Romero.

[@DoomBunnyKiller00]

Love these Doom vids that you did with John...I think it would be awesome to see some on Quake as well (am i asking too much?).

[@slot9]

Thanks for more!!!

[@TheClique86]

Fuck, Bioshock has been sitting in my waiting to be played library for years, this makes me really wanna pick it up again

[@AllShamNoWow42]

I, among many others who have played the series, implore you to play them. I had a fantastic time. I hope you do too.

[@TheClique86]

I played Infinite and loved it, just never got past the first few hours of the original, will have to be a weekend play now!

[@4gnomesx3]

TheClique86 DO IT! Favorite game in the series.

[@williamw7269]

I like how he tries to talk about Bioshock and Romero's just "Hah we're talking about Doom instead!" Seriously awesome interview, though. Anyone know which Disney World Design books they're talking about? Or would any book on it do?

[@floverdevel]

33:28 «I can't really see but I know it's doing good» 👌🏻😁

[@ChinacatSunflower0]

I've always wanted to make a TC of Conker's Bad Fur Day on the Doom engine... i wonder if this would be possible ?

[@theleninistplaysgames1682]

the color pallet looks like Hexen's swamp level darkmere.

[@TheThagenesis]

it's almost sad to see how much thought and love was put in the leveldesign of older games and compare it to the stuff we get today. Kotaku recently published an article on the best Level in Half Life and I recommend it to everybody who appreciates the quality we had then: kotaku.com/blast-pit-is-the-best-level-in-half-life-1663837617

[@inceptional]

I'd be interested to see how linear or complex the actual line map for this level is... Anyone got a pic of it by any chance? I'd also be interested to see what a Doom map version of a level from your average Call of Duty game, or basically most other modern fps games, would look like.

[@voltcorp]

might I ask why you didn't texture something white in the small walls between the white steps of your path? I feel it breaks the flow when viewed head on because all the different heights look different on top but the same "inside".

[@RAFMnBgaming]

And then he did make a new wad, and there was Much Rejoicing

[@rgerber]

Not many get the chance to show their first Doom level to daddy John Romero himself!

[@Optimus6128]

Last one was like, Romero trollface

[@hotmultimedia]

argh it would be nice to have jp's and romeros voice at the same volume level

[@Visuwyg]

really cool!

[@RealDids]

I loooove Romero.

[@rolandthompson8771]

Romero's small rant at 37:00 on level creation being overly complicated and the need for tools that let designers focus on design rather than fiddling with technical bits makes me wonder what he thinks about Doom 2016's SnapMap. On one hand, it's almost exactly like the kind of thing he's calling for: lots of prefab stuff that creators can easily throw together and rig up to make levels quickly. On the other, it's gotten a lot of backlash precisely because it lacks the kind of creative power that real programming can do (ie mods). That kind of power to mess with a game's insides is just as important to classic Doom's appeal as its ease of level design: people making great gameplay mods and total conversions alongside new levels and megawads. I wonder if there's a balance to be struck between offering easy creation tools and allowing all the keys to the kingdom to anyone who wants them.

[@SL128]

Yeah! :D

[@AndroidFerret]

Actually .. someone is creating REAL BioShock maps for doom ..which really look exactly like BioShock

[@TheGameLecturer]

Romero finally released a map he did recently for Doom 1! Search for e1m8b (Doom1 compatible).

[@zissou6928]

10/10

[@ImDemonAlchemist]

And now John Romero has put out 11 new levels. He redid E1M4 and E1M8 (the only two levels in Episode 1 that he didn't exclusively make) as E1M4b and E1M8b and then last year, he put out SIGIL (a new fifth 9 Map episode for Doom 1, with a sick Metal Soundtrack to go alongside it). Personally, I think E1M4b and E1M8b are a bit overly complicated, especially when they're replacing maps from Episode 1, but SIGIL is incredible. It's now a permanent addition to the game for me, I have it set to autoload whenever I launch Doom 1 on steam.

[@OpenMawProductions]

I'm just gonna say it... Levelord.

[@suejak1]

So JP literally made one Bioshock level?

[@SeafoamSmiles]

Work smart. Work S Mart.

[@DenilsonSa]

A bit nitpicking, but the 60fps is only to the BioShock footage, and not the Doom footage. Would be awesome to see Doom in 60fps.

[@gr1lly]

Actually i think doomsday does run at 60 fps - anyone know better?

[@DenilsonSa]

david griliopoulos Most likely, yes. I also can't check, but I strongly believe it runs at 60fps. The captured footage, however, was most likely captured in 30fps.

[@DoubleFineProd]

Denilson Sá just went back and checked the sources, both are captured at 60fps. Bioshock does look way smoother though. Might have just been the actual performance of the game during the session.

[@ButaneBoss]

+Denilson Sá I know this is an old comment, but I've got 60FPS DOOM using the source ports ZDOOM, GZDOOM and Zandronum.

[@_antares031]

8:27 The author who made that "Going Down" also created bizarre videos such as this. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fJLZhqN6lK6djLs

[@_yoursleepparalysisdemon_]

yeah

[@Kashaku3]

The title should be Doom 2 and 5 seconds of Bioshock (but not really)

[@megablast9483]

"oh man, this guy looks extremely familiar...i can't put my finger on it. woah dang, he knows a lot about programming and doom..i KNOW this guy...goddammit what is his name??" *Scrolls down to description and sees that it's John friggin Romero.* "nuh uh, impossible." *double checks my memory by googling* "THEY GOT JON ROMERO. WOAH DANG"

[@Erzul90]

ya

[@greob]

These videos are so well put together. It's incredible. Although the game sound level is probably a big too high. Really nice work anyway!