DF Direct Weekly

[@SelfIndulgentGamer]

8K is just real pie in the sky! Let's put those lofty dreams aside and concentrate on what's achievable. 4K itself hasn't been fully accomplished yet, so why not focus on the present and explore the exciting tech that's within reach? Plenty of fantastic possibilities await us right here and now!

[@AssassinIsAfk]

4k is achievable but it will cost more, expect the ps6 to be $600 for the specs it's offering, unless it uses RDNA 2 and zen 3 which is likely since it will keep costs down, but with RDNA 3, well the ps5 pro will cost $600, Sony would want to make more of a profit

[@SelfIndulgentGamer]

@@AssassinIsAfk It is, but seems to be at the cost of framerate. I'm still happy with 1080p, but I've got old eyes :D

[@Norgatron]

Ps5 allready has the only native 8k game anyway

[@legros731]

​@@Norgatrona yes fake upscaled 8k lol keep dreaming Sony fanboy

[@jfowl17]

@@legros731pretty sure they put it out purely to avoid false advertisement claims.

[@CIA-m1v]

As a PSVR2 user, the best argument for me for a PS5 pro would be running VR games without reproduction, at 120fps, or at higher resolution and detail settings.

[@CheckmateStallioN]

You mean reprojection. The only dev that figured it out is Vertical Robot with Red Matter 2 running at full native res 120 fps native and there's only 2 people in that studio which is nothing short of incredible. S&S Retribution is another good one but those games are pretty rare

[@mustang750r]

It would be cool for the psvr 2 to have the ability to have a quality and performance mode. Like say 90fps is quality mode where 120fps is the performance.

[@CheckmateStallioN]

@@mustang750r I think Song in the Smoke has that. I wish more devs did that

[@billybadass7718]

@@mustang750rthe best argument is not having to choose between performance or fidelity

[@eSKAone-]

Exactly ☮️🙂💟

[@jaypeesan1877]

Hearing how pushing out more capable HW could solve framerate issues I always roll my eyes as I know devs will again push fidelity over frames and we will be in the same spot once again.

[@tog2842]

Yep, this is how I feel too. We should be looking at 60fps minimum at this stage.

[@mjc0961]

I'll never forget Naughty Dog employees being interviewed or cited in articles talking about how amazing 60 fps was for The Last of Us Remastered Then they got to Uncharted 4, decided on fidelity over framerate (and we didn't even get fidelity, that motion blur made everything look like a Bigfoot sighting video!), and started backpedalling on everything they'd said when trying to sell copies of TLOUR.

[@Cogglesz]

Yeah, seems every generation since the 360 & PS3 (HD Era) we've had a performance reset in favour of pushing out visuals. I'm positive come a PS6 we'll be seeing 30fps titles still. 4K seemed so impossible of a target this time over and considering most games never run native 3840 x 2160p that's pretty telling. I've noticed they'll always hype up new resolutions to fit with new TV standards but decided it'd be better to half the framerate every TV and monitor after 07' had. This stuffs been going on for well over a decade now, yet most preHD stuff was always shooting for 60fps or 50fps to fit with SDR standards more often than not, there was some like Sunshine and N64 titles which had fps issues but the large majority of titles ran at the TV's native refresh rate. They're really being disingenuous to print 8K on the ps5's box. I think if you're spending near half a grand on a gaming set up with no games the least you could ask for is a framerate target that's the same speed as the TV output standard. If we where ever going to have native 60fps the general consumers are gonna have to show via sales that really matters. Not enthusiasts or long time gamers who've got a bit of everything. We're a minority. I doubt Starfields gonna have an issue shifting units despite it being locked down to half the standards speed. It sucks to see, I shouldn't need to rely on my pc to clutch in for a native 60fps to match a 60hrz display.

[@BrianBaastrup]

​@@tog2842nope, we should be looking at stabilizing and better upscaling on console. 30/40 fps is more than sufficient for most games, as long as the controller latency is low enough.

[@anita.b]

​@@Cogglesz Cyberpunk was a literal scam and yet it made 800 million USD sales in it's first days. The truth is NOBODY cares about performance, quality and the gaming medium lmao. It's dead as a hobby. Now you can pay and consoom or just not play games and move on with your life. Starfield will probably be a homerun in term of sales and profits and have the same quality and polish as Fallout 76.

[@dsgbog]

I bought Mantis Burn Racing when the PS4Pro launched and John if there were to be a MBR2 to release in tandem with a PS5Pro it would be such a poetic moment.

[@TheVVumpus]

Most of my gaming time lately is in VR Gran Turismo 7. I’ll buy a Pro in a nanosecond if it improves the visuals and or performance. Native 90fps or 120fps with no re-projection would be glorious.

[@x3mbr]

Yep that's the perfect use case! Can definitely tell there's room fot more resolution/supersampling and native 90fps would also be great

[@mustang750r]

It would be awesome for VR headsets to also have the option of a performance and quality mode. Like say 90fps is quality mode and 120fps is the performance.

[@samgoff5289]

You really think a pro version will just straight up double the performance of current consoles? Most games are 30 fps capped with really low resolutions

[@rosswinyard5421]

​@@samgoff5289 are they? Can't say I've noticed too many 30fps capped games. Especially ones under 4k. I had assumed they were few and far between but I could be wrong..

[@ricepony33]

GT7 in VR is honestly the whole reason I bought the PSVR 2 and I haven’t been disappointed. I’ll always take a bump in performance and reduced pop in though.

[@benbreuer4966]

I still think the secret weapon of the PS5 Pro will be the 8k gpu hidden in the power brick.

[@dookie_12]

THEY BROKE NEW GROUND!!

[@taureanwilliams2900]

Never had a power brick. That's Microsoft stuff

[@antwango]

@@taureanwilliams2900 r/woooooosh exactly

[@antwango]

internet cookie! i bet the 8k power brick can upscale to 16K too! dont ask! i also have sources working at some unnamed server centre!

[@jonnyc429]

​@@dookie_12I KNOW WHAT THAT IS!

[@williamcrms]

Maybe there is a use case for a PS5/XSX Pro, but I don’t think Remnant 2 and a handful of poorly optimized games justify a mid-gen refresh. The sort of hardware needed to run Remnant 2 at high resolutions and framerates would translate to a very expensive console, based on performance on PC. Cyberpunk 2077 with ultra RT runs similiarly despite looking much better imo. This is a developer/engine problem not a hardware problem.

[@alumlovescake]

Poorly optimized games will never run better without patches or a complete ground up remake. A 4090 gets the same fps in games as a rx 480. Nothing will save those games besides competent devs and having higher ups/publishers stop counting the pennies

[@BraddahSpliff]

Most of these games not hitting 60fps is because of being badly optimized.

[@harrasika]

​@@BraddahSpliffThat's exactly what they said

[@omarsabeur9039]

​@@harrasikaDid you know that games run poorly when they aren't optimized correctly ? I think this is the responsibility of the devs , I can't believe nobody is pointing this out!

[@InJeffable]

I don't think anything justifies a mid-gen refresh. The PS5 and Xbox Series X were not underpowered consoles when they hit the market in 2020. This is not a situation like we had with the PS4 and Xbox One.

[@ghost085]

I don't see how one can think the pro consoles will target 8K, when latest games barely reach 1440p on the current consoles, sometimes going as low as 720p internal resolution.

[@mdkgod43]

Stop your lies kid

[@mikeybronny6579]

Cod and overwatch run at 4k 60, or 1140p 120. So.....8k 30 would be amazing with the new unreal 5 games coming out.

[@lerr123456]

sadly, a lot of people just see the 4k 120fps on the ps5 box and assume thats how every game is going to run, so yeah....your be surprised the amout of people that has no idea theyre playing some ps5 games in 720p/1080p/1440p not the advertised 4k

[@mustang750r]

Yeah, if I was to get a pro, which I probably will, my whole focus will be more stable frame rates for 60 and 120 FPS. I know it's due mostly to these leaks but for DF to address the question of if we need this for 8K when we really need this for better 60 and 120 FPS feels like they haven't been paying attention to their own analysis videos.

[@techsamurai11]

They won't - it's a joke especially since detail and fps are much more important than resolution. A game with high settings maxed out at 1440p looks and runs better than a game at 4k with medium settings. Plus the TV upscales and adds resolution (if it's a Sony) so there's no point in running native 4k.

[@phant0mdummy]

I think Remnant 2 has made the case for developers using upscale tech to skip over valuable optimizations. This isn't hardware related. This is either UE5 just not being ready for the market yet, or developers not doing the proper labor required to make these games run well on the hardware. You should NEVER make your game require DLSS/FSR just to get mediocre frames.

[@TheDarksideFNothing]

They're pushing brand new tech and they're not a huge studio. UE5 stuff will get better over time as Epic improves the features on the back end and devs figure out best practices and optimizations too. And I don't think it's so much "skipping over" the optimizations as it is either designing the game with the intention of users upscaling so they could include the technologies they wanted to (which is what they said they did), or just not having the time and money to spend on deep optimization... Which is very difficult and very expensive. There are only so many work hours that devs can put into a game, so if they can finish content and fix bugs at the cost of you have to upscale a little... That's a valid choice to make. Would you rather them cut content? Or have more bugs? Something has to give. They can't just spend unlimited time and money making games. It's just another tool. I don't remember people complaining like this back when dynamic resolution scaling came out. I don't see how this is different apart from being even harder to notice.

[@CheckmateStallioN]

DLSS is dumpsterfire if were being honest. Why not just use TAA which is still currently the best AA

[@TheDarksideFNothing]

@@CheckmateStallioN that is just not true.This channel has explored exactly that concept and showed very well that DLSS quality at 4k trades blows with native 4k TAA. They each have advantages and disadvantages but are broadly comparable in image quality in most cases. Now you take a game you can only run at 1080p natively, compare TAA to DLSS on a 4k screen and tell me which looks batter. You're lying to yourself if you say TAA.

[@CheckmateStallioN]

@@TheDarksideFNothing i played many games with DLSS and saw a ton of shimmer. Doom Eternal is an absolute mess in DLSS. Never saw any artifacting using TAA. No wonder why DLSS doesn't come with a performance cost. As a tradeoff it introduces artifacting lowering the image quality by a wide margin. Something's gotta give. You can't expect to have no performance cost with a great IQ all things being equal

[@Qbasz007]

Tekken 8 beta did not even allowed to turn off the upscaling, crazy times.

[@BigMac5]

As an enthusiast who has a high end PC, PS5 and Switch, what we want from a PS5 Pro is to play in fidelity mode at 60 fps. We are in the minority of gamers with disposable income but we can hope.

[@pipgoesthepossum]

Agreed

[@93836]

I also have a high-end PC and PS5 and I don’t want to play anything at 60fps. I’m always really irritated when there’s a good PS5 exclusive game that I’m forced to play at 60. I spend 98% of my time playing on the RTX at 2160p at 100+fps.

[@PositronCannon]

I don't even need a full-blown fidelity mode, just a stable 60 fps at 1080-1440p is enough for me. Right now we're having games that struggle to get a stable 60 at 720p which is ludicrous. It's not even the console's fault, it's just a case of developer ambition not being matched by optimization, but the cause is irrelevant at the end of the day, if the reality is that brute-forcing performance is the only way.

[@SimplexPL]

I want PSVR2 games in 90 or 120fps. Too many VR games run at 60fps

[@m3lodeth]

I see you are a man of culture as well. Who needs xbox when you have pc, right?

[@TommyHe]

Fully agree with the potential selling point of classic PS + streaming combo for Project Q! This would also potential help upsell PS+ Premium tier.

[@Wayofthelao]

I love this show, there’s lots of tech channel’s out there but this one is a home run

[@tetsuoshima7385]

Apart from the knowledge and technical knowhow, you just feel that a large portion of why it works and it’s so much fun is down to how lovely, and likeable the presenters are eh.😊

[@Wayofthelao]

@@tetsuoshima7385 oh you are totally right, they just have this vibe with each other that’s amazing

[@Adamchevy]

It really is a bespoke tech channel.

[@mjc0961]

I agree with John that 8K is undesirable right now. However, Sony still advertised 8K as a feature right on the PS5's box, so I'm going to keep asking for it until they deliver. And if they never give it to us, I wish them a very merry false advertisement lawsuit and fines. Don't put 8K on the box if you don't intend to give customers 8K. Simple as. EDIT: I've been loving how John keeps bringing it up. Never let Sony forget!

[@pacomatic9833]

We barely have any games that even can use 8K 120fps!

[@RonnieDeuce87]

​@@pacomatic9833Not to mention the PS5 and XSX cannot display 8K above 60hz anyways lol

[@mitsuhh]

@@RonnieDeuce87 Nor can an RTX 4090.

[@fafski1199]

It's also unachievable at the moment, especially on a $500 console. Hell, I doubt that the flagship RDNA4 GPU next gen could even manage it and that will likely cost upwards of $1000.

[@grant1905]

Fair call. They've advertised it. It's a class action just waiting to happen.

[@JeffWillingham]

DF direct weekly is such an awesome way to start my work week. Get to throw in an airpod and listen to start the week off!

[@ThePolyesterPimp]

16:13 I’m aggravated Sony hasn’t rolled out that ear scan tech for the ps5. 3D Audio was and still is marketed in a lot of the advertisements. Edit: I’m aggravated that Sony hasn’t rolled out the ear scan feature yet, I hope there’s support for head tracking as well.

[@Lead_Foot]

And it's a feature their bluetooth headphones have included in their mobile app for ages.

[@markus19999]

I believe Xbox One also had surround sound.

[@MassiveHappyClapper]

I have a PS5. What was the tech supposed to achieve? I never heard of that. No pun intended.

[@MassiveHappyClapper]

​@pyrykaksonen698 Yeah I have the Series X and PS5, the Xbox does have surround sound support.

[@donkeyy8331]

I really wanted to use that, I feel like when I'm using the 3D audio things get a bit too low and audio also seems to be coming from a lower source and the pre-confings don't really fix it to me.

[@that_colin_guy]

58:10 Bring it on - would love to see a re-run on the Jag cores!

[@kosmoplod]

If I may make a suggestion. Rich's audio track has a boomy resonance at 120Hz, that's really distracting. It's been present in at least couple past DFDW episodes. Narrow EQ at 120Hz of about -10dB should fix it.

[@chrishansmatthews6260]

Higher dynamic resolution and more stable framerate sounds good to me, I would buy a pro for those reasons no need for 8k or other reasons

[@chrisbullock6477]

Me too, I work have credit and would certainly trade in my PS5 towards a PS5 Pro.

[@MurCurieux]

+1

[@soruyo210]

Sony hopefully uses its resources to focus on 4k and ignore the 8k stuff, unless they’re thinking is to use 8k to compress to 4k

[@brunomiiguel]

A Slim would make more sense to phase out the PS4 for good imo but that's just me. Not sold on the ideia of this gen needing more horsepower. What they need is development solely focused on them and not being hindered by having to make games work on old gen.

[@duffsman316]

Sony are over here claiming to be able to reach the moon with even having the capability to get there and I’m still running my ps5 through a 2010 42” plasma Panasonic Vierra. Performance mode for me every time, still looks amazing.

[@ivarandresosorio6461]

I love the crt retro experience, in this day and age it's quite expensive, a good professional CRT, and the original consoles and games, but they're well worth it, the whole thing is like a time machine.

[@cezarstefanseghjucan]

Not going to waste money on anything else than a 4K120 QLED TV.

[@101phil101]

@@cezarstefanseghjucan its possible to have both

[@cezarstefanseghjucan]

@101phil101 It is possible, but not worthwhile. CRT never looked sharp enough, while being prone to burn-in and using a lot of Watts. There is a reason why the industry moved on.

[@gerboog]

Also , CRT's are starting to die due to age.

[@Adamchevy]

I have a good Dell P992 CRT. It doesn’t hold a candle to my Asus PG32UQX. Native 4K at 144hz and real HDR looks amazing. The clarity and visual presentation is far beyond my P992. The motion clarity is the only thing my CRT has going for it, and sadly that isn’t enough in comparison. Even playing retro games on my PG32UQX upscaled to 4k look amazing. Ofcourse I wouldn’t recommend doing this on anything less than a 7900xtx, 4080, or 4090.

[@maximum9065]

If project Q is priced right, and it can be used as a regular ps5 controller, I could see buying one to use as a second couch co-op controller while also serving as a portable system to stream on around the house.

[@mitchjames9350]

It doesn’t connect direct to the PS5 console but through wifi. Sony should of made this like the Wii U gamepad.

[@AudioPhile]

Yeah the wifi direct connection on the ps4 was brilliant, bummed the ps5 doesn't have it.

[@MulliganSnicker]

I’d rather see time and resources put into making the PSVR2 better for users but that’s just me. PS5 Pro would maybe help with performance, like one commenter says, but I’d like to see more applications for PSVR2. Such as KZbin, VR video player, or a social game like VR chat. Also would love to have a PS Home like house where it displays all my gaming achievements. PS5 Pro would also make me feel FOMO and a necessity to upgrade when I feel like my PS5 still needs some more use

[@lcg-channel]

Thanks for the heads up on the DualSense controller price drop. I have been playing Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart on PC the past few days with an XBOX One controller, which is fine, but I wondered what the DualSense haptics and triggers would feel like. I checked the local toy shop (Smyth's in Ireland) and it was 45 Euro (30% discount), slightly cheaper than the Amazon UK price, so I have just bought one. Also, there is an 80 euro discount on the standard PS5 console.

[@naseemwaja8735]

The dualsense feels so nice in the hands

[@zaandam0172]

Still 70 euros in the Netherlands or I didn't look hard enough. But I got the controller already.

[@Anna_Rae]

Duckstation is a lot of fun. I’m almost finished with Legend of Dragoon. Removing the texture warping and downsampling from a higher resolution looks incredible. I also enjoy playing it portably on my Steam Deck. While the screen isn’t super great, having the game portably with these enhancements is a fun time 💕

[@gameindustryinsider6450]

At Rich, you do not have to “turn off/on” half the CU’s WGP’s to do hardware level backwards compatibility. In theory you can turn off any number of CU’s.

[@or1on89]

I think PS5 Pro will be a SKU with a slightly OCed CPU, more L3 cache, better memories to get it on par with Series X fast pool and a bigger custom RDNA GPU. What puzzles me is what features to expect though…PS5 has a early version of RDNA 2, it lacks a lot of DX 12 Ultimate features which could help boosting frame rates and use better upscaling but the recent patent from Sony signed by Cerny makes me think they will try to do another cross-gen GPU core that includes RDNA3 features like the hardware RT core per CU and ML capabilities unlocked for the shaders. In this way they could make use of nicer RT, VRS and better upscaling using predictive temporal upscaling. The only question is: how many CUs and which memory bus they will use? Sure it won’t be full RDNA 3 nor hybrid RDNA 4, the new gen of GPUs is expected for early 2025 and having such new tech onboard means launching the console to 700$, which is DOA. So I think they will opt to improving their current architecture rather than revolutionazing the core architecture while almost doubling the CU count, it would be a cost effective win to keep the new product smaller, cheaper and powerful enough to improve frame rates for VR and competitive gamers while solidifying a baseline of 40/60 FPS titles.

[@mimimimeow]

350mm² chip on TSMC N3 node would be a good start. Theoretically they can fit as much transistors as 2x7900 GCDs and 8 core Zen 4 in that. Remember that it wouldn't need MCDs like an actual 7900. That's 2x96 CUs, unless RDNA3-4 crossgen CUs become more complex.

[@pennywisethedancingclown7139]

Sony doesn't use DX12. They have their own custom API. Not sure what features they are missing? The PS5 seems to keep up with the Series X pretty well. In some cases slightly better settings in games, albeit a slightly lower resolution.

[@xBINARYGODx]

@@pennywisethedancingclown7139 Its just basically OpenGL, as the Xbox consoles are basically DX (but no literally, if compared to PC like I just did for OGL)

[@fcukugimmeausername]

I want them to do a PS5 Pro just to see the '16k compatible' label on the box. 😂

[@mustang750r]

What's funny is the PS5 currently has a true 8K game but there's no output display option so the game just super samples it for the 4K mode

[@libardomm.trasimaco]

😅

[@pgr3290]

You have to go along this rough guideline of what ~200 watts in a console box can get you. If we're talking a 2024 launch for a PS5 Pro it seems easy to get a GPU that's well over 20 teraflops. Probably something based around the upcoming RX 7700. With tied down clocks it'll be under 200 watts leaving plenty of scope for a Zen 4+ eight core. It should easily have GPU performance clear twice as fast as base PS5 hardware. 20GB or 24 GB of memory would be a useful increase, might be rather expensive though. Perhaps do what PS4 Pro did and have some cheaper memory for the OS/UI say 4GB DDR4 and then at least dedicate more of the fast GDDR6 16GB for games.

[@mustang750r]

I like the idea of 4GB of DDR4. The current PS5 ships with only 512MB of DDR4. I believe it was the channel redgamingtech that has suggested a PS5 Pro could be using DDR5 Memory for OS.

[@AssassinIsAfk]

​@@mustang750rddr5 is expensive as fuck it's essential a $700 upgrade on pc, for the motherboard, CPU and ram, it won't have ddr5 support unless it doubles in price

[@fafski1199]

Hmm!!....The main issue then would be the overall price of the PS5 Pro. Current rumours have the RX 7700 priced at $450 and the cheapest 8-Core Zen4 CPU (7700X) currently costs $350. Add to that 24GB of GDDR6X that would be needed for that 19GB/s memory transfer speed (around $80) and just for those 3 components alone, it would currently cost just shy of $900. Even with the typical price reduction that the console manufacturers get for bulk purchasing, it'll still likely be out of range for Sony's budget. Especially when you also factor in all the other consoles components (Mainboard, SSD, Blu-Ray, case, controllers ect.). That's of course unless the Pro console will cost far more ($700+). Also doubling the Tflops, doesn't equate to double the performance, at least in games. Using TFlops, are absolutely pointless way of trying to measure performance these days. For example, the RX 7700 is rumoured to have 31.2 TFlops, however it will have roughly the same level of performance as the older 16.1 TFlop RX 6800 and the 21.7 Tflop RTX 3070Ti. Which BTW at that level, would produce around 60% more performance, than the 10.3 Tflop PS5, in games. The RX 7700 will also only have 48CU's, not the 60CU's like what's being stated. It's the RX 7800 that's rumoured to have 60CU's and that is expected to cost around $550-$600 (even more costly) and also have a TDP of around 300watts (so would require a 450W, possibly 500W PSU)

[@pgr3290]

@@fafski1199 It's not really useful to compare the prices of individual PC components with multiple markups to a games console with a custom APU and a contract with AMD for minimums of millions of orders. Fixed prices and guaranteed profits. That's why consoles are cheaper after all. Sony can price it at $499 and make no profit on it for a year if they wanted to. Standard console business model. The profit is not in the hardware, at least not for the first few years.

[@fafski1199]

@@pgr3290 Pricing still has a major bearing. Sony has a set out budget and a cut off point for both the price that they pay for components and the price they then charge to customer's for that console. Too high on either or both could cause issues. Otherwise why on Earth do you think they didn't just stick a 12-core 3900X and 6900XT combo inside of the PS5 to begin with and be done with it? The main reason was simply because it would have then been far too expensive for customers. Most potential customers in the market for a console, are typically looking for one that costs under $600 (preferably around $500) Likewise the PS5 Pro will have a similar limited budget and Sony will be limited to picking a GPU and CPU for it, that will fit inside of that budget. They simply aren't going to stick inside it a GPU and CPU, that together will cost them nearly double the amount that they are going to be selling the console for. It would be potentially suicidal to do so, even if they could scrape some of that back through game sales. At very best just like the PS5 and all the past consoles, it'll be a GPU + CPU combo, that would typically cost you around $400-$600, if you went out and bought a simular specced CPU+GPU combo for PC. You just aren't going to get CPU & GPU inside of a $500 console, that would cost you around $900+ on PC, no matter how hard you pray. That's unless Sony are dumb enough to try and charge customers $700+ for the console. Which would then heavily hurt any potential sales.

[@blendernoob64]

About Question 5. For me, the reason I prefer original hardware for console gaming is mostly psychological. I remember playing Resident Evil 4 on PCSX2 way before I knew about custom button layouts or connecting a PS4 controller to my computer and such, and feeling a disconnect from my immersion, when I saw the Playstation button prompts when I was playing on an Xbox 360 controller. Same thing when I played Ocarina of Time with the C buttons. I also noticed that I never finished games when I started them on an emulator, maybe because of that feeling of inauthenticity or that feeling of playing game tourism, where I feel like I'm not experiencing the game, but instead viewing it from a distance, or because I was annoyed at how the games controlled. However with that being said, emulation eventually is the only way we will get to play classic games because the original hardware and discs and cartiges are aging, and there is so much DIY wizardry we can do before our Wiis and Playstation 2s all die from aging hardware. Also, emulation can deliver an objectively better experience graphically for flatpanel displays and can even increase framerates for many titles. Things like the Mario 64 PC port are objectively the best way to play these classic games. But again, I prefer original hardware because I play on a CRT, I appreciate the original controllers and technology these games were released in, and I think its more fun to pull a game off the shelf, turn on the console, and experience the game, almost like sitting back and turning on a vinyl record of a classic album.

[@MukiMuki688]

Felt the same way playing the PC version of RE4, tho playing on Dolphin may be more faithful to the original NGC version if that's isn't available.

[@quicksilver6870]

My PS2 will never die

[@blendernoob64]

@@quicksilver6870 I need to replace the laser on mine :(

[@islandboy9381]

Connsider hardware emulation like the Mister, that way it'll feel more accurate to playing og hardware while having the benefits of emulation on top of it.

[@xBINARYGODx]

"and feeling a disconnect from my immersion, when I saw the Playstation button prompts when I was playing on an Xbox 360 controller" baby

[@optimal9094]

Retro gaming via emulation has the benefit of saving and it allowed me to finish those difficult platformers and other games I could not as a kid. Plus, the ability to do so with a cool and convenient handlheld like the RG35XX. Also, I have zero issues focusing on 2-3 games at a time.

[@vaghatz]

With the GPU prices as they are, gaming at 4K on PC is pretty expensive. I really hope for a PS5 that can do 4K60 gaming on the cheap (under $700). Most games on PS5 now are either 1440p60 or 4K30.

[@AssassinIsAfk]

It could do 4k 60fps however the dissapointing thing is it won't be native 4k 60fps, the hardware isn't going to be that powerful

[@FurBurger151]

​@@AssassinIsAfkWreckfest is native 4k/60 on ps5.... so?

[@AssassinIsAfk]

@@FurBurger151 wreckfest is not a demanding game, a game like call of duty isn't native 4k, my point is the ps5 hardwhere is not capable of being native 4k on all games, the ps5 pro will be more capable but still not capable on every single game, honestly a ,3080 struggles to play all games on 4k resolution

[@TRONiX404]

​@@FurBurger151static 4k native 60fps with high/ ultra in current AAA games will never happen.

[@xtr.7662]

Hate to break it to you but it will never happen maybe 1080p 60fps instead of 720p in ff16 and remnant 2

[@anis6800]

The project Q has to be the most tone deaf device I have seen in the past decade... What are they thinking?

[@izamanaick]

They saw the success of the Wii U and wanted it for their own

[@BraddahSpliff]

@@izamanaick I was thinking a similar thought. Like, why in the Hell would Sony want a PS version of the WiiU?

[@anis6800]

Even with Wii U you can argue its better because of the low latency lmao but this Q stuff..@@izamanaick

[@tenthirtyseven-v1]

Sony is doing a launch PS3 scenario again. People put them at the top of the podium and voila.

[@crescentmoon256]

they are high

[@cornbreadreturns296]

32:12 - I think that was the case at launch - but I replaced my PS4 Pro disk drive right when i bought a used one with a defective drive and it worked great - never had any issues with "it being tied" to the hardware.

[@samuxan]

We are told that the development of a new console takes years so, if there really is a ps5pro coming next year the decision would have been made in 2020. Probably they didn't anticipate the chips shortages and such a long crossgen period

[@no-barknoonan1335]

That's also why we are told that most projects never make it into fruition and are canned along the way. Starting projects is a norm and a reflection of the times at the project onset, bringing this project to market is a reflection of Sony's rationale at this current moment.

[@Arcona]

A new generation console, a mid gen refresh won't take nearly as long.

[@corey2232]

I have a question - Is there a reason I see so many PS5 owners excited for/hyping up a PS5 Pro on Twitter & other social media? I remember when just the idea of mid-gen refreshes pissed people off, but at least we understood that the PS4/XB1 released in a pretty poor base state. Still, the idea of buying what amounts to the same hardware twice didn't sit well with people. Today, there are tons of people excited to buy another PS5 already... even though devs have barely had time to tap into these new machines after supporting last gen hardware for so long. Any future hardware will be limited to playing the same games as the base models, so I just don't see the reason to be excited at this point.

[@snakeshepard9761]

I'm glad Rich thinks it that way in regards of lower end hardware. I still watch the PC analysis + the recommended settings, but they aren't that useful since most people are still using old hardware, hardware that was still pretty fine until this January. I have an i5-8600k, a GTX 1070 8GB RoG Strix and 16GB of RAM, if you look at the Steam stats you see that a sizeable amount of people still use 1060->1080 GPUs. My system carried me very respectably until a couple of months ago (my biggest issues are CPU related), I could still play Red Dead 2, Cyberpunk and Resident Evil 4 with little to no issues, but Dead Space was terrible and I just gave up on TLoU 1. Remnant 2 is really heavy but still playable at 60 fps on upscaled 1600x900. So I think that it's not that useful to show comparison only between 20, 30 and 40 series (and all the competitors equivalents). At least show us what a 1080 with a period related CPU is still capable of.

[@joseijosei]

Hey! I don't know how this game would run in old GPUs with newer CPUs but I think that newer GPUs may depend a little bit less on the CPU. Maybe I'm wrong with all of this, but, see... I'm running a 4080 with that same CPU (i5 8600k). I overclocked it to 5 Ghz, and yes, I'm getting bottlenecked really hard. I did that OC before going for a new CPU, but then I realised... the performance in games is fine, specially when they have Frame Generation. I'm not on a rush anymore, so I was thinking about keeping this CPU for a little longer. The only game that got me close to 60 fps without FG was The Last Of Us Part 1. Seeing 77 fps, while staring at a wall (just after yo start controlling Joel for the first time), with 99% to 100% CPU utilization in all 6 cores felt TERRIBLE, and the frametime was not nice. It was crazy, but I've used a Frame Generation mod, from PureDark, to play it at a capped 120 fps, and out of a particular scene at the very beggining of the game, when all the people are running and stuffs, I always got that with a smooth frametime, because FG gives me close to double the amount of fps I'm getting. Almost double, basically. Now, what I wanted to let you know, in case you have issues with your CPU, is that Ratchet & Clank, in particular, runs WAY TO WELL, and I guess it has something to do with some new tech they are using in this game. I did notice that my GPU usage is a lot higher than in other games. Even with everything maxed out, including RT options (those usually kill the 8600k), and the distance slider on 10, without FG I was always over 80 fps, most of the time around 100 fps, did see 120 fps from time to time, and with Frame Generation I was getting over 200 fps, sometimes drops to around 150 fps. It did depend a lot on what was going on screen, the plannet I was in, etc, but the point is: in this game in particular, I didn't feel the bottleneck that much. GPU utilization, with FG, was in the 90%, even running the game at 1080p. I don't know if it's RTX IO, DirectStorage 1.2, or what ever, but it seems like it's helping a lot.

[@bradhaines3142]

wait you have to step it all the way down to 900p? no way. it doesn't even manage 30-60fps?

[@snakeshepard9761]

@@bradhaines3142 upscaled 1080p runs at an unstable 60 fps. In very enclosed spaces it's pretty stable, but then it can run as low as 40 fps in some scenes. I prefer having better performance since in coop some fights are pretty brutal. And since I still have to use an upscaler with all the artifacts, it doesn't change much going down to 900p. Still better than the stuttery mess that was Dead Space, that was just barely bearable on my system. I played it only because I love 1 and 2. I still prefer the original though.

[@Pisscan]

At this point, I would stop playing games and use that time to get a part time job, coz 1600x900, I’m assuming low-mid settings, sounds terrible. 💀Also get a 144hz vrr screen minimum.

[@snakeshepard9761]

@@Pisscan you know what sounds even worse? Badly optimised games. The game is heavy as hell for how it looks on any system. The Last of Us had no reason to be that heavy. Maybe only Dead Space had reasons to be so demanding. In any case, a game (Remnant) that sets upscaling on in its default settings can't be a well optimized product for how it looks. I can play Resident Evil 4 in 1080p with high settings and 60 fps. I'll upgrade my system in the following years, but it won't be so that developers can stop optimizing games and stop making scalable experiences for PC players with different hardwares.

[@DriftEJ20]

To play Black on PS2 with progressive scan you had to hold some combination of buttons on the menu screen for like 10-30 seconds. So the solution for some future hardware performance mode could be to lock the option behind something that people can’t randomly stumble upon.

[@jonahhekmatyar]

8k won't be pioneered by videogames. 1080p, 4k, ect didn't become mainstream until other forms of media like tv and movies were readily accessible. Until 8k movie releases or other things are available at 8k, I don't think game companies should be advertising "8k capable"

[@quicksilver6870]

You can already play videogames in 8k😅

[@mitchelljenkins4815]

The PRO is like upgrading a GPU on the PC. It's not hard to understand, it's not complicated and it won't be necessary for everyone. Not everyone on PC games on a 4090 but the option is there. That's how I view this.

[@mitsuhh]

The PS4 Pro upgraded to SATA 3, improved the CPU by 33%, added 512mb more RAM for games on top of the GPU upgrade.

[@gesi7072]

Definitely nothing wrong with that, but it is a scary idea BECAUSE developers are barely pushing the power of the ps5 standard, not taking full advantage, then the pro comes out and could lead to them losing interest in giving optimized software, in favor of pushing unoptimized UE5 games because of the extra horsepower. Im not entirely sure if thats the real problem, but its likely whats gonna happen

[@cw-cw6nl]

​@@gesi7072Most PS5 games have dynamic resolutions. A pro would ensure the highest graphically fidelity along with more consistent fps in more intensive games. For people willing to wait and spend a little extra, they get the best console experience, and those who don't need it, can stick with the cheaper base PS5. Everyone wins here.

[@justfun5479]

Correct

[@ChalkanCheese]

I never understood the rush to 4k gaming for consoles before making 60fps at 1080 the standard format for all games. I think there's just too much emphasis on visuals over fluid gameplay. 8k !?! Come on, let's get 4k at 60fps as standard first.

[@TransformationalGaming]

Wow these guys are really taking a gander at my video... I'm honored. I wish they take the hold off the view count.

[@rowen898]

I really like Olie in these weekly videos. Sucks his time zone is so far off. Would be nice to do a 4 panel once a month.

[@gedaliaw]

I can't believe Rich, who is Oliver's boss, didn't know that he was getting his employee to work at 2:30am!!! Oliver, being young and I presume grateful for the work didn't complain, but wholly crap this sounds like a ridiculous working situation.

[@rowen898]

@@gedaliaw i have no sympathies for people who work from home

[@Arcona]

@@rowen898 You expect him to fly a plane over the Atlantic and work from Richards basement?

[@redraw0160]

What country is Oliver based in?

[@AkiraTwin]

I bit the bullet and took advantage of the price drops and an Amazon promo code on electronics. Picked up a disc PS5 for £340. Absolute steal, though I've already filled the storage with my PS4 library. 😂

[@VanTesla]

If going with base storage only, that isn't hard to do. If you can get a good deal on a 2-4TB compatible SSD, I would suggest getting one. If you have an external drive for PS4, you can still use it for your PS4 games on PS5 and get most of the benefits still. Mind, of course, only get an SSD if on a decent sale. Many 2TB a month ago had sales for under $100. I am nearly certain the drops are similar in most countries outside of Australia and Brazil as worse case examples of cost...

[@jesseshaver2262]

If ps5 pro fan play ff16, Jedi survivor, dead space, etc quality modes but at 60fps (or even better, unlocked to go above 60)…. I’m all in

[@leesanction2068]

Sure, base ps5 was able to play pretty much every title 60fps locked. Give it a year or two after ps5 pro release, we will be back to the same situation. How about devs take the time to optimize their games and not worry about pushing the hardware to the absolute limit.

[@samgee500]

​@@leesanction2068That's the problem. They don't push the hardware at all, because they don't write the game engines.

[@steelyeyes9190]

MORE POWER DOESN'T MEAN LOCKED 60 LOOL

[@jesseshaver2262]

@@leesanction2068 you can optimize whatever you want, that won’t mean you’re getting how ff16 quality mode looks now, but at 60fps still on a base ps5.

[@jesseshaver2262]

@@steelyeyes9190 more powerful hardware increases performance. Not sure what you’re getting at

[@izhanshafiq324]

John, Disc drives are not paired on the board on the CUH-1200 and above which includes slim and your PS4 Pro. There's a chip for BluRay drive called renasas that is paired but you can still swap drives out by disassembling the console. But if that chip goes bad, you're in bad luck.

[@btarg1]

I honestly think it'll just be a simple refresh with the latest generation of Ryzen/Zen and RDNA, and after seeing the comparison of the 4800s vs the new Ryzen chips i can only hope for that generational improvement

[@GodEmperorOfShorts]

Jumping 2 generations of CPU architecture isn't a refresh, its a whole new console generation.

[@Alex_Logan22]

Spider-Man 2 releases October 20th and the console/accessories release September 1st, they wouldn't be 50 days apart like that if there wasn't a new model releasing in the Fall. The plates on their own instantly sold out so they're probably expecting the console bundle to sell out before October 20th.

[@vulcan4d]

What is funny about all these games running dynamic resolution as low as 720p or and 30fps is the entirely up to the developer. They could all do 4k 60fps on the current hardware but it would cost in graphics quality. Devs are pushing graphics first and looking at performance next. It should be the other way around. I think a hard requirement should be set, 1440p upscaled to 4k at 60fps on the top consoles. Devs will just need to stop living in the future. They plan to remake games anyway so focus on hardware that is out now.

[@fuwa7925]

Finally someone with common sense

[@TwinOpinion]

Regarding the Racket and Clank tests... I'm always amused when I watch your thorough and comprehensive tech videos because they're always followed by headlines from other outlets that completely misrepresent what you said. Those comment sections are hilariously misinformed.

[@drgonzo123]

I have a PS5 and Series X and I don’t own the same game on both systems for a fair comparison, but load times on my PS5 feel much faster. The compression on PS5 is great too, taking up less room on my SSD.

[@videogameobsession]

I agree. Even starting games from a cold boot are often super fast. It almost feels like it’s resuming from a saved state.

[@AudioPhile]

@@videogameobsession yeah, and then games like Jedi survivor make we watch unskippable intro vids that feel like they go on for an eternity lol. Become spoiled.

[@FernandoBanegas-n9j]

What worries me about a new PS5 Pro, is that eventually, 60 fps framerates will be exclusive to that console when the new games (fit to the new generation) come out, and the regular ps5 will have to be in 30fps, even on 1080p, especially considering how some new games can be taxing. I personally would stick with a regular PS5 if I can still play triple AAA titles at 60 fps, when the true next gen games start coming out.

[@samgee500]

All I want is a smaller PS5 so I can finally buy one 😭

[@Labtec500]

Do you live in a cardboard box? 😉

[@cmdr101z8]

The PS5 isn’t THAT big

[@stephenmurray2851]

​@@cmdr101z8it really is. It's ridiculous

[@cmdr101z8]

@@stephenmurray2851It’s really not. And it’s still a good amount smaller than PC cases

[@jack_knife-1478]

@@stephenmurray2851 no its not!

[@jbscotchman]

I agree that it just seems too early since it seems like the PS5 library is just now starting to get some exclusives.

[@cellspeed8682]

PS5 library is also starting to get games with serious performance issues so it couldn't come too soon.

[@sonicadv27]

@@cellspeed8682 lol Which games? Final Fantasy 16? and....?

[@alwayzbizzy1207]

I’m confused how a tech channel like DF is confused as to why a more powerful PS5 doesn’t make sense…..Because it’s going to sell giving Sony a second wave of console buyers from those who bought a launch console, who in turn will generally sell their old console adding more people into the ecosystem. I assume the PS5 Pro is RDNA 3 based on WGP. Logically, I would assume it’s 3 clusters of 20CUs in the WGP, with 2 disabled. This would be 54CUs, and “bare minimum” a 60% performance boost over the base PS5, from the GPU alone, and over a 2x performance boost in Raytracing, and FSR 3.0 support for more 60fps - 120fps game modes. (similar performance to RX 6800 / 6800xt desktop). The biggest jump and benefit would be if the CPU is upgraded to Zen 4, which as Digital Foundry’s own tech analysis of the 4800s, shows a HUGE leap in frame performance of 2x the performance. So a Zen 4 + RDN3 GPU, on paper seems like a 60% performance upgrade, but in reality that Zen 4 processor will push performance of some games easily above 2x the performance of the base console getting actual locked 120fps (especially important for PSVR2), helping native resolutions get out of the sub 1080p range as the most demanding games will soon become, and again this is all before potential FSR 3 support. This is a big upgrade, if true. Edit: I meant Zen 3 (Rembrandt)

[@justfun5479]

No ZEN 4 jump, but GPU and VRAM will be improved. Also, 60% more cores doesn't mean 60% more performance.

[@alwayzbizzy1207]

⁠​⁠@@justfun5479It definitely doesn’t as doubling CUs rarely, if ever, means 2x the performance. However, this is a 50% CU increase (36 -> 54), backed by a potential architecture improvement RDNA 3, backed by higher speed memory, with the potential for higher clocks as well. So the GPU should realistically be around a 60% performance increase putting the console much closer to RX 6800 performance with RX 7000 series RT and FSR 3.0 which is a really solid upgrade as long as it’s $599 MAX. As for Zen 4, I meant Zen 3 (aka Rembrandt / Rembrandt-R) which is why I mentioned Digital Foundry’s 4800s vs RX 5600 video. Going to Zen 3 would be a huge life in performance, as the current console APUs while based on Zen 2 aka RX 3000 series, since they’re customer mobile/laptop APUs they perform closer to the RX 2700 in real world performance than the 3700 they’re designed from.

[@Teremei]

as far as playing on real hardware. I'm playing PS2 and Wii on a 19" Sony LCD with a retrotink 5x. The upscaling plus the optional scanlines make those older games look AMAZING.

[@charoleawood]

For flat panel displays and retro gaming, smaller is always better. I would also suggest smaller CRTs over bigger ones because they are easier to carry and fit into a spaces. Additionally, large "HD" CRT displays have such a fine mesh it can be hard to appreciate what the CRT is actually doing for the look of games.

[@Vsevolod3788]

"The problem is not 8K gaming". That's right. The problem is 720p gaming which is slowly becomes a standart in 2023 with all these new UE4/5 game releases! 😂

[@SPG8989]

Yea but I really don't think that is the actual hardware issues. My damn 4090 is taxed in Remnant 2 and while it looks ok it isn't near THAT good looking. No I think it is more due to absolute shit optimization on pc and consoles and devs relying too much on upscaling. Look at Forapoken. After some time optimizing they were able to not only increase fps but resolutions too. Devs just aren't optimizing as well as they should

[@Vsevolod3788]

​@@SPG8989 I agree. I know it's not a hardware issue. Games this gen look no better than last-gen ones but require much more powerful hardware. This started right when they cut support of last-gen consoles. It's clearly a game development issue. Lazy/incompetent devs or publishers pushing release dates or all at once. And thus the attemp to mitigate this problem by providing even more powerful hardware (PS5 Pro) looks dumb as hell (like all this gaming industry of today is).

[@cheese_crab]

Hi Rich! The low-end (bass) of your mic causes distracting buzzing/humming noises (at least on my setup) just FYI. I'm using some Bose desktop speakers. I particularly noticed it in the monologue around 23:00

[@cheese_crab]

Not 100% sure if it's bass causing it but that's what it sounded like to me

[@kostasbousbouras2654]

There is no need for a PS5 Pro. What we need are better devs that will do better job. PS5 amd XSX are solid machines underpowered by these bad optimizations.

[@rickyburchett77]

At this point just get a gaming PC because a 700 to a 800 dollar box still cannot compete with a high end PC for gaming

[@RETR0_P0CKET]

The conversation around the PS5 Pro is so silly. You get more powerful hardware to run games better. Just like getting a new GPU for your PC. It’s not that hard to sell an upgrade to an enthusiast.

[@mitsuhh]

PS4 Pro wasn't only a GPU upgrade.

[@nihilisticpoet]

If we are getting a PS5 Pro, I am definitely getting it. I can already see the studios overlying on UE5 and upscaling techniques to push out barely optimized games out. I rather have some extra bruteforce power because they will indefinitely gimp the PS5 development when a Pro model is out.

[@TheDarksideFNothing]

I don't remember people complaining like this about dynamic resolution in games. Or for that matter, devs just locking the game to lower resolutions like they did before DSR took off. Personally I think upscaling is much better than just running at a lower resolution like games have been doing...forever Devs have been making ambitious games that can't run at native for ages. I just don't see how this is different.

[@rexthesheep]

I've long thought about the idea of having players input the Konami Code to access a secret "pro settings" menu for things like unlocking the frame rate. Btw Shadow Tactics on Xbox One also lets you unlock the frame rate - normally it targets 30fps. I don't recall if it ever got a One X update, so having that option is the next best thing, especially on Series X|S

[@phil.wilcox]

I think the frustrating thing for gaming this generation is the serious lack of genuine content even 3 years in - mostly because games are taking much longer to conceive and develop now (especially 1st party titles)! Some studios now are likely going to make one or two games tops for the platform, often they are poorly optimised and require frequent patching to run well. I don't see the financial value in that for me any more, it's likely I'll stick to the PS4 and indie titles for the time being before moving to the new generation. Also - PSVR2, I am seriously disappointed in the effort Sony/developers have in implementing games for this new addition, aside from GT7 (which looks phenomenal) I can't see many more titles utilising the new hardware. I don't need the same versions of the experiences on the PSVR1 - give me new exciting titles that take advantage of the newer features. Where is Half Life Alyx or Boneworks?

[@pt4005]

This comment hits the nail on the head. Development is taking a lot longer and so the selection is a bit dry and I don’t think I’ve seen a game really ‘push’ these the ps5 and series x. I’ve heard rumours that developers are already starting to work on games for ps6- which shows the development cycle. There’s a rush to get software out but then when it does it’s poorly received. Which would probably explain why f2p and battle pass/season games do so well atm as they are easy to update with new content.

[@Radek494]

Why don't you mention RDR2 as one of these games stuck with 30 fps lock? 1:00:00

[@MrLathor]

I would imagine the reason the PS5 doesn’t support 8K is it’s HDMI 2.1 bandwidth is limited to only 32 gbps which is not high enough for a full 8K 60fps HDR.

[@SC0RPI0NFURY]

I doubt Sony would market the PS5 with 8K capabilities of it's not possible. Sony are the founders behind HDMI 2.0 and HDMI 2.1, they literally invents this kind of tech, it's what Sony do best. 8K will probably be unlocked through a firmware update at some point when 8K is more common

[@AssassinIsAfk]

The 4090 can't handle 8k very well, ps5 pro will never ever be able to do 8k

[@pacomatic9833]

Wait. 32 gbps? What if hard drives used HDMIs? That would be pretty funny.

[@SimonBuchanNz]

​@@pacomatic9833this is one of those infuriating things about the industry: networking and display connectors normally use giga-*bits*, while internal connectors like NVMe and RAM normally use gigabytes. But not always, for either! So yeah, those 7.4GB/s NVMe cards are about twice as fast as HDMI 2. Funnily enough, M.2 is just a straight connect to the PCIe bus, and the thunderbolt display protocol is basically just PCIe, complete with direct access to RAM: so you're not that far off!

[@tears2040]

You’re talking about two different things, while we can agree 8K definitely not for video games, it can display 8K content up to 30fps such as videos/movies,etc

[@TheRealJaCrispy]

I just don't think its that important to release a PS5 Pro. If these 3rd-party studios optimized their games better, the PS5 would be sufficient for several more years. They really should focus on more 1st party games and just design the PS6 to come some time in 2026.

[@ScrapKing73]

If Microsoft doesn’t release a “Pro” console, then there may be an opportunity for them to embrace the next-gen earlier than Sony (perhaps 2026 or 2027). That worked very well for Xbox with the 360.

[@ClosestNearUtopia]

Only if they will bring games, otherwise it wont work.

[@LRon-ef7ni]

Im happy with the little things like Dolby Atmos on PS5. Astrobot sounds amazing. I’m excited to test out more games. I honestly hope there isn’t a “Pro” version for some time. They haven’t even tapped out the base model yet.

[@videogameobsession]

AstroBOT is a very underrated game. Most people write it off as a simple tech demo, but there really is a top notch platformer, with very cleverly designed stages here. The “artifact hunting” is also a blast if you’re familiar with the Sony PlayStation lineage. With the branded hardware being very lovingly recreated here, and with exquisite detail! Team ASOBI are a very talented developer. I can only hope they are at work on a new Astro game. Maybe something that is a hybrid game of sorts, for both PS5, as well as the PSVR2, since they have shown themselves to be very adept in VR creation.

[@LRon-ef7ni]

@@videogameobsession totally agree!! It’s a classic launch pack in game. Pack in games were designed to showcase what a system can do. Honestly, it’s still one of the only games to utilize everything the PS5 has to offer. The platforming and artifact hunting are great and finishing the game with the completed mural was very satisfying. I’ve played it and replayed it.

[@Alcatraz760]

If the pro doesn't have Zen 4 or Zen 5 I don't see the point of it since it won't double the PS5's framerate without it.

[@AssassinIsAfk]

Zen 3 is good enough for the ps5 pro, if it has zen 4 then it's gonna cost $700 with RDNA 3 since zen 4 is pricey and RDNA 3 is pricey, don't get your dreams too high it's not gonna be a pc killer

[@fernando-gk9sj]

We dont want PC killet We want future proof consoles Like the one X

[@keith1314]

Hey man the touryst was an 8k PS5 game. I wouldn’t mind a pro system but I like new hardware. It’s probably not needed

[@captainthunderbolt7541]

I think the clear use case of the PS5 Pro is not having to pick between the graphics mode and the performance mode. 4k at 70 - 80 fps would be a sensational result.

[@Pisscan]

On low settings maybe 💀

[@originalityisdead.9513]

4k at 70-80fps in next gen titles is far to much to expect from a console. UE5 games are running at 720p on the PS5, 4k is nine times that. What you're asking for there is high end PC performance.

[@captainthunderbolt7541]

@@originalityisdead.9513 Yes, and I am specifically talking about the theoretical performance of he PS5 Pro - and I very specifically made no mention of UE5, which runs like a trainwreck.

[@originalityisdead.9513]

@captainthunderbolt7541 UE5 is a traiwreck because the consoles are weak. I'd be suprised if the PS5 Pro does 1440p 60FPS in demanding titles.

[@captainthunderbolt7541]

@@originalityisdead.9513 UE5 is still a mess on PC. 2k FSR'd to 4k at 60+fps might be a bit more realistic for the Pro, assuming that its GPU is close to the 7800 xt. Native res of UE5 titles still probably won't reach 2k@60 though (unless Lumen and Nanite are switched off, or more carefully optimised).

[@videogameobsession]

39:12 ...My god, man.. TAKE OFF THE DAMN CELLOPHANE FROM THE DISPLAY!! So annoying when people do this.

[@donkeyy8331]

Talking about the new (possible) accelerated Ray Tracing architecture Mark Cerny did come up with a new way to discard early on rays that won't have a big effect on the final composition of the image, it is also stated that now available hardware in the market currently supports the type of approach he came up with. Edit: If this new PS5 pro does come with a good hardware acceleration for RT and a AI upscaler I'm definitely going to try and get my hands in one of those. Also could it be possible that frame-gen on a console be active independent of dev implantation? since this would be a feature in SDK/OS level they could possibly force it to work just like they do forcing VRR to stay on.

[@helloguy8934]

Yeah rt is the elephant in the room here. Something that a pro could improve upon by a lot

[@zues287]

Any OS level implementation of frame-gen would look terrible, at least with the current tech. An OS level implementation would also have to generate the HUD, etc, and we've all seen how bad that can look. AMD is working on their version of frame gen for PC, though, so I imagine it will eventually come to consoles. It was already supposed to be released a couple months ago, but AMD have been silent since the 7900XT/XTX first announcement.

[@donkeyy8331]

@@zues287 would it? because the image vectors that would compose the UI and HUD would mostly be static, also it only need to be applied when a game is running. Thinking about it the console could interrupt the pipe-line rendering at some point to invoke the frame-gen, I dunno if there would be a good way to implement ignoring the UI elements, but injecting in the render pipe-line the frame-gen is possible.

[@AssassinIsAfk]

@@helloguy8934 raytracing is a gimmic, I have a 4080 and I have that shit turned off, waste of FPS for a little bit of prettyness

[@helloguy8934]

@AssassinIsAfk If Ray tracing is a gimmick then pbr is a gimmick. Or programmable shaders are a gimmick.

[@ramonosuke]

At this point the PS5 "Pro" is what the original should've been if they waited a year before releasing. Love when games like Jedi Survivor, Remnant 2, and FF XVI have a render resolution of 720p on supposed "next-gen" consoles.

[@gabor-toth]

We need consoles that can run future UE5 games at 60 fps. The current consoles are not powerful enough for that. There will indeed be a demand for 60 fps gaming going forward. I'd buy a more powerful Xbox any day as well.

[@techsamurai11]

Well, the problem is that if UE5 cannot deliver games at 60fps for the PS5 and XSX, then it should not be used as a game engine for those games. The console spec is already set in stone and there will be 100 million PS5 and XSXs soon. All games will be made for these specs and they need to run at 60fps. UE5 needs to find a way to run games on these consoles at 60fps and they have to look and run better than other game engines for it to be considered worth the investment. God forbid, we start using FSR2 on 720p internal resolution which yields motion artifacts and destabilizes the image.

[@firip255]

@@techsamurai11is to late for that. Sony itself Support UE5 Productions…. But Yeah. Its 99% sure. 30 fps Gaming Coming back pretty soon

[@gabor-toth]

@@techsamurai11 The thing is that most of the industry now uses UE5. There's no escaping it. But when you look at games like Hellblade 2, however realistic it looks, it won't run well on consoles. And I don't want to go back to 30 fps gaming. I'm happy to buy a new console if it can provide better performance. Also, see Flight Simulator, Starfield...

[@techsamurai11]

@@gabor-tothI don't know the percentage of games using UE5 but I really haven't seen many titles other than Fortnite running UE5 and some demos. If the current consoles can't run at 60fps, those games should NOT be using UE5. It's Game Over for them if they made that choice. A game running at 30 fps on a PS5 or XSX without a solid 60fps option is an automatic failure except for games like the Witness, What Remains of Edith Finch, or perhaps the Talos Principle.

[@lancealex382]

I'm a little surprised at the conjecture of ps5 pro offering more than just frames/res and in pro5 case better RT. With PS4 pro Sony were adamant that standard PS4 would be on parity as far as the game as the pro, just Res and frame enhancements. It's entirely logical to expect exactly the same from pro5

[@eugkra33]

I think you can see what an RDNA3 based GPU with actually hardware optimizations for games would look like by looking at COD: MW2. A RX 7600 is able to beat a 4060ti, and 6700xt with the right shader optimization for dual issue compute. About a 25% gain over a 6600xt with the same CU count. So a 60 CU PS5 Pro should be able to get to 6900xt performance levels. And I do think another 32 bits, and 2GB extra VRAM would be needed if they want to use higher resolutions, and potentially higher textures than the base PS5.

[@PaulTheFox1988]

Just for clarification, what did you mean by an another 32bits?

[@ItsNotAProblem]

​@@PaulTheFox1988I think he's talking about the memory bus width

[@PaulTheFox1988]

@@ItsNotAProblem ah yeah that's what I suspected, but for some reason my brain kept thinking they meant making the cpu 96bit instead of 64bit lol Sometimes brain go derp

[@VitorHugoOliveiraSousa]

I do think there is a market for a PS5 Pro. This large crossgen period familiarized consoles players with 60FPS as mostly standard. Getting away from that to 30fps will be a hard ask. The other option if devs don't drop that entirety (like Starfield) to pursue visual fidelity at the level of the matrix experience or close, we will have games like Jedi Survivor and FFXVI running at really low resolution and unstable FPS. You could say if you want a premium experience just get a PC, but a decent PC that delivers substantially more FPS and resolution than a console is substantially more expensive with the economy of scale of console makers and they subsidy. A good high-end GPU will cost you more than a entire console. Also there is the issue of the sad state of modern PC gaming until they fix for good the problem with shader compilation, you have to wait for them to fix the game and a lot of time they will just drop it broken if sales don't justify continue updates. At a minimum Sony could and should put machine learning hardware on the console to do a console version of DLSS. Run the game at 1080p or 1440p 60FPS and upscale it to 4K with machine learning. FSR will never be as good because it cannot statistically infer data from adjacent pixels as good as a AI model. Optimizations on Unreal will not change that reality, even if epic does miracle devs will use this extra headroom to push their games even harder, just like we saw with base PS4 barely running some late gen games. If this will be a long generation (like Microsoft saying they expect a PS6 only in 2028) we need a PS5 Pro. Let the base PS5 become a 30fps machine running internal resolution at 1080p and doing upscaling. About the SS Microsoft will turn it into a streaming machine before the end of the generation, especially if Sony launches a Pro. They will launch a Xbox Series Y or some shit like that too.

[@xBINARYGODx]

Starfield is not doing 60 because of visuals, its how hard it hits a cpu and blah blah blah.

[@zeldaoot23]

I’d buy a PS5 pro solely for better VR performance, since the PS5 can’t max out the PSVR2’s fidelity with current-gen graphics. RE Village or GT7 with Red Matter 2-level crispness would be amazing. However, I’ll admit that’s currently a niche use case.

[@FurBurger151]

I don't think it's as niche as you think.

[@techsamurai11]

Why can't it max out PSVR2's fidelity? If anything, it uses Foveal rendering so it should render what you see in high detail.

[@zeldaoot23]

@@techsamurai11 VR is very demanding; to get the best resolution and frame rates, you need to be pushing 90-120 Hz at 4K, preferably with some supersampling. With PS5 this can only be done on games with low to moderate complexity. RE Village, GT7 and Horizon CotM look great, but when you play Red Matter 2 or Song in the Smoke it becomes clear that the AAA games aren’t maxing out the headset’s potential for clarity and frame rate.

[@zeldaoot23]

@@FurBurger151 I hope it’s not! PSVR2 is awesome. I’d be surprised if more than 2% of PS5 owners have it at this point though.

[@techsamurai11]

@@zeldaoot23 yeah, I wasn't aware of reprojection and the issues it can cause for some folks. I'm a little surprised that the PSVR2 has so many compromises. Between the fresnel lenses which are less clear, the unique OLED technology, and reprojection, it seems that it has a lot of noticeable technological problems besides the lack of software. Sony resolved the cable issues and they have the PS5 which is so much more powerful than the PS4 and yet the hardware is not there yet especially compared to Apple's vision Pro. It's strange cause Sony makes the miniscule OLED panels that the Vision Pro uses and they could easily add pancake lenses to get incredible visual fidelity. Maybe the PS5 cannot handle 120hz yet but it's still good enough to produce a decent performance and with the screen being 100% sharp and color accurate, it may have been better. I feel it was such a missed opportunity for Sony to really take over the market for folks who want a Vision Pro experience at a much lower price and they'd be 1st to market with incredible software and potentially AAA titles.

[@loutronz4708]

It would be interesting if the detachable drive is actually a PS5-Pro option.

[@BenPyman]

Just what I was thinking! If the PS5 Pro only has a detachable drive, they have more space inside the box for cooling, without making the console even bigger.

[@majort3514]

The price drop is middle finger following the Microsoft/Activision deal.

[@coliander4180]

The Microvision deal hasn't been closed yet.

[@Rufnek2014]

For the summer sale - expect new slim designs this holiday season.

[@itsjusterthought7941]

Wow DF have really nailed themselves to the cross and are now stuck in a loop over the PS5 Pro. Both Alex Battaglia and John Linneman have dug their heels in against justification for the PS5 Pro. Now the rumour looks credible, Alex has found a reason not to attend such an important episode because it threatens his superiority in the master race. John is stumbling for words trying to justify his negativity, making some weird point that only mobile phones upgrade on a regular basis. He forgets that he upgrades his PC on a regular basis so he can pretend to be superior to us with the knowledge such access provides. He then weirdly concedes what was obviously to everyone from the start, the PS5 Pro should be able to offer 60fps with all the bells and whistles turned on, while the base version can only manage 30fps. Painful. Then we have Rich trying to negotiate the middle ground, discussing the possible spec upgrades. Then makes a really dumb statement that the RAM does not need upgrading because it is already big enough to fit a 4K buffer. The RAM stores more than just the buffer for the renderer. It stores the assets used buy the GPU to render the scene. RAM size also affects map size and the detail that can be showed at any one time. How many times have you used a map editor and learned that there is a map size limit and asset count limit based on the RAM memory capacity, compared to the PC version. Surely Phil has heard of this stuff. RAM isn't just a location to store the 4K render buffer.

[@mitsuhh]

DF consistently demonstrates that their hardware knowledge is lacking. Just because they have the funds to afford the top of the line hardware doesn't mean they understand it

[@Varmint260]

I appreciate the theory of an external or swappable PS5 BD drive only because my PS5's drive packed it in six months after I bought the system. Not from a significant amount of use, mind you. The only disks that had been in it at that point were Rift Apart and the Lord of the Rings UHD Blu-rays - the drive failed near the end of The Two Towers. Maybe it was just too much disk activity for 6 hours in a row? The new drive has been used for far more games and also completed the LotR trilogy without any issue, though, so maybe the original drive was just a lemon. EDIT: Shoutout to my fellow countryman OlieMack burning the midnight oil at 2:30am! I work afternoon shifts so that's a normal time for me to be awake but I am painfully aware how difficult changing your sleep schedule can be.

[@liquidtongue]

I think console developers need to be real careful with putting out hardware iterations too fast. Console owners are not pc gamers for a reason, they don't want to tinker with hardware every 2 years. It risks alienating the consumer base if hardware isn't truly supported through a normal (6-7 year) lifespan. Additionally, I think it makes for sloppy software developing when programmers feel like poor programming can be overcome with more powerful hardware. Going back through the first gen hardware, the programming mastery and tricks from day 1 software to end of hardware quality has been massive. Give programmers the time to master the platform already at their disposal.

[@WujoFefer]

Native 4k60 or even 4k120 for all games without FSR. I have PS4Pro and I’m waiting for another Pro version, I will not upgrade to normal PS5 because jump in power is too low for current price.

[@WujoFefer]

When I first saw current gen hardware I knew that this is not enough for stable 4k60. Like always promises for the current gen can be delivered with next gen or at least pro versions.

[@millrrs]

I don't like a PRO model, but I do like the Slim modes that get release. And I against the removable disc drive because could kill physical and selling PS5 DE was proved a total fail for Sony because no one will give up the ability to use disc.

[@KnucklesWTD]

How was the digital ps5 a fail when it was sold out just as much as the disc one

[@detectivephelps9805]

The digital edition was a fail? That's absurd. The ONLY reason the Disc Edition sold so well is that was the only model anyone could really find online for the longest time. Sony was able justify a $100 price increase for the PS5 by including a (what, $30-$40???) cheap disc drive. So, they did a "paper" launch of the PS5 Digital Edition, just enough of them out there to get good press about offering a cheaper option in the current economic climate, and then primarily manufactured and sold Disc Editions. There is a loud minority of people who still use physical media, and face it, most don't care and would have preferred to save $100 to spend on games or and extra controller, or literally anything other than a disc drive that they will never use and that adds no value----especially to those who gameshare digitally already, effectively cutting the price of all the games they purchase in half.

[@KnucklesWTD]

@@detectivephelps9805 the $100 for the drive is 100% worth it if you resell games. you’ll easily make that back. Digital is only worth in on console for games that have tons of replay value. I beat ratchet in like 2 weeks and regretted buying it digital because I could have easily sold that game for like 55 dollars instead of rot away in my library.

[@possiblyunmatched1323]

​@@detectivephelps9805you save much more money in the long term by buying disc based games rather than buying it on the digital store, ive bought 2 games that cost me £35 disc that would have cost me £80 on the digital store

[@blorbb5398]

I happily own a PS5 DE, I will not buy discs again (since mid PS3). Games are online and updated anyway, no sense at all having discs.

[@brandon_nope]

1:11:24 that sound Rich made caught me off guard

[@KevsShwaShwa]

As we are seeing, the issue isn’t the specs but it’s lazy development not optimizing games.

[@leoni7649]

I don't think it's about laziness. It's about executives wanting to give false promises to shareholders and players, and then later pressing the development team to the point many of them get sick and are forced to release their 4 years project in a terrible state so they have to work even more overtime just to fix the mess, while everyone out there is blaming them.

[@KevsShwaShwa]

@@leoni7649 agreed

[@MegaPsycho84]

Exactly. This generation have a bunch of lazy developers. It’s crazy, back in the day, developers had so little to work with but still put in the work and made magic.

[@LuchsYT]

@@MegaPsycho84 Imagine blaming the developers, not the business and management guys. Yikes.

[@frankvandermerwe1487]

The specs ARE the issue. Get over it

[@eliotwildermann]

Please none of that 8k bullshit

[@KoeiNL]

I'd buy a pro-version in a heartbeat if that meant stable framerates at current settings. Because right now so many games are just so shit to play if you dont have a VRR display.

[@simonrockstream]

Thats a problem with the games. Not the PS5. We need better games not better consoles.

[@fensoxx]

I’ve been playing games since ‘81. I just don’t get the CRT love. I was so glad to be done with them. I’ve got a 32” Samsung in my basement in storage that’s anyone’s for a $1,000 plus shipping.

[@robertlawrence9000]

At 6:30 , John gets it FINALLY! This is exactly the point of making a PS5 Pro.

[@bradbeck2601]

Exactly! I don't get how people are saying they don't know why they would make a pro. Devs are going to program for the PS5 and make the game look pretty at 30fps for marketing. At the VERY LEAST, having the overhead of a pro gives them a very low hassle way to take that pretty game and deliver it at 60fps instead without much work involved.

[@robertlawrence9000]

@@bradbeck2601 Very true! Exactly!

[@Nades_]

I still haven’t got a PS5. Waiting for a slim or pro model.

[@mclarenrob2]

Nobody needs 8K gaming.

[@ScrapKing73]

I think Microsoft probably won’t release a “Pro” console because they release all their first-party content day-and-date on PC, so people who want to play those games in higher fidelity already have a way to do so.

[@ZratP]

Regarding the last question, I have recently bought a Japanese Sega Saturn and a looot of second hand games. I am basically accomplishing the dream I had when I was a kid and couldn't afford a Saturn. As it was mentioned, manipulating the real console, the controllers and the discs is a different experience from just a list of ROMs on a PC. Also for a console like the Saturn where emulation is far from perfect, you always have to tinker the emulator settings depending on the game. And last, I bought a really premium HDMI upscaler: The Retrotink 5X, that thing is absolutely phenomenal, it has filters that really reproduce a lot of the characteristics of CRTs, in terms of blending the colors and neighbor pixels. This blows any shader based filter seen on most emulators. I really have the feeling of playing on a CRT but on my modern big LCD.

[@Cogglesz]

21:46 I never thought we'd see DF engineer a water cooled Gamecube!

[@Revenant_Knight]

Purpose of the PS5 Pro: FF16 at 60FPS in Quality Mode without dropping to 720P.

[@smoothlyrough512]

Don't feel like a pro version will fix any performance stuff. At the start of this generation the series x and ps5 was Suppose to fix all those performance issues, so I'm not sold that apro version will either. They'll just keep upping the graphics, thus giving you performance issues.