DF Direct Weekly #59: PlayStation 5 VRR, Steam Deck 40-60Hz Upgrade, 900W Next-Gen GPUs?

[@maxhoughtonmusic]

At this stage, this series just exists as a way to remind me how quickly the weeks are passing me by

[@justinthematrix]

Seriously

[@colevanhoogenstyn9322]

lol for real

[@MentalXO]

Dude same 😭

[@oneguyonedryer8730]

Same here

[@anabang1251]

Yeah, it's a bit terrifying tbh.

[@yuhe]

I am an Unreal Engine game dev. I think the biggest reason PSO caching on PC is not properly handled by a lot of developers is because the issue is usually completely bypassed in a typical testing environment. Unlike consoles and mobile devices, the shader cache for a Windows build persists between different versions, and the only way AFAIK to invalidate the cache is to completely uninstall/reinstall the graphics driver. As a consequence, all Windows PCs that the developer is using for testing already have most of the shaders cached somewhere and each time they receive a new build they will only compile a few new ones - Essentially building up the cache incrementally rather than all at once, very different from what an end-user would experience! While I was working on my indie game, I only started looking into PSO caching when I was porting to IOS, where this issue was easily noticed/reproduced by just uninstalling and reinstalling the app (which clears the cache). What Epic needs to do is to implement some sort of easily accessible "CLEAR SHADER CACHE" function on PC.

[@Mopantsu]

There are options in the driver to clear the shader cache the user can access.

[@griffgames9538]

Agreed, there's certainly a QA environment/PC element. 1 main caching, then a zillion plays. So the 'first run' compilation friction is lost to observation deep in development.

[@nonyabusiness6084]

If one were to want to learn Unreal Engine, where would you recommend they begin?

[@Rapunzel879]

@@nonyabusiness6084 I would say start with Real Engine and later move to Unreal engine. After all, you need to know how to crawl before you can walk! I'm so sorry.

[@AamirRiffat]

@@Rapunzel879 love it

[@RealJeffTidwell]

That little pause when Rich said “bespoke” is everything.

[@peite7878]

It’s 🔑

[@kdkseven]

And Digital Foundry's war on the words 'custom' and 'designed' (architected lol) continues!

[@RealJeffTidwell]

@@kdkseven “Proprietary” says hi

[@balaam_7087]

@John THANK YOU for that clear and concise breakdown of the VRR implementation on ps5. Since it went live I’ve scoured the net and found either incorrect assumptions or simply no information to answer the questions I had. It’s good to finally get a definitive explanation.

[@rizzo-films]

I can always count on DF for that sort of thing. I find it frustrating to look up this highly technical stuff only to find articles with vague or uninformed info and Reddit threads full of rumors and fake info.

[@Rocksteady72a]

Or worse, popular videos that confidently spread the wrong information.

[@Daniel189HLL]

@Brian Rodriguez at leat they now have nx gamer doing their proper tech stuff.

[@kikiphallin]

@@Rocksteady72a This reminds my of that time everyone thought Guerrilla Games was using "groundbreaking" technology with their frustum culling implementation lol. At least that wasn't "fake" info, well, just the part where everyone thought they were the first ones

[@datruth4766]

Been waiting for a DF video all week. I was hoping for an exclusive vid, but they answered all my questions.

[@duncanself5111]

I hope Insomniacs performance options and implementation of VRR in R&C and Spiderman become a PlayStation first party standard

[@PQwhatitdo]

After seeing the state of the Performance mode of HFW I’m not holding my breath that other first party titles will live up to the Insomniac standard.

[@tangydestroyer]

@@PQwhatitdo what’s wrong with the performance mode? Doesn’t it run well from the analysis?

[@doctorsilva1345]

@@PQwhatitdo Agree, Horizon is such a disappointment tech wise, its insane. Don't know what the hell they doing over there at Guerilla.

[@TANuclear]

@@tangydestroyer the native res in performance mode is below 1440p and then checkerboarded to 1800cb which creates a lot of shimmering which is horrible to look at

[@MisterReen]

It would be so nice. Same with HDR. But even some of the large 1st parties doesn’t support the consoles HDR settings.

[@MisterReen]

Fantastic explanation by John regarding the Ps5 VRR Details. Many many thanks for this. Stunning work.

[@hessamtoossi2559]

Thank you so much Alex for taking time to look into the shader compilation stutter on PC games. DF has enough clout to influence the industry I think . This stuttering issue really sours up the PC gaming experience. It almost feels like you're better off playing games on console these days....the PC master race is a thing of the past. Besides best practices being laid out by Epic for developers to follow, I wonder if someone like NVIDIA could use its AI and cloud gaming prowess to "push" precompiled shaders to users as part of the GeForce Experience game optimization routine.

[@ameliandras]

The Steamdeck Update was really cool. The Spyro Trilogy was always pushing my Deck to 100% and the fan was really audible. Now I just run it at 40 FPS, have 1h more battery time and a way lower fan noise. Haven´t tried it with other games but that will be my new standard setup with other games.

[@Adamchevy]

Same. I think 40fps 40hz is the gold standard option on the Deck. I’m so glad Ratchet and Clank on the PS5 showed us the way.

[@startedtech]

@@Adamchevy to me 45Hz/FPS seems right for balancing input lag at least in Fallout 4, 40 seemed a bit much. But hey that's what's so great about being able to set it wherever (also, might just be better in other games)

[@alexandremercier8851]

I was wondering is it worth it to buy a steam deck? I look at the title they have and honestly on all the game they have i would probably play 8-12 games

[@Adamchevy]

@@alexandremercier8851 I personally would reserve one. I think it is receiving an amazing amount of attention from Valve. I wouldn’t pay eBay prices or anything higher than what you can buy it from valve directly for. If you like to play games on the go then this device is for you. If you like to tinker with your gaming experience and see enhancements through continual support from a great community then this device is for you. If you need a portable PC then this device is for you.

[@yomamasohot6411]

@@alexandremercier8851 thanks to valve owning Steam, Steamdeck will support almost all of Steam library which is basically all of gaming so you will certainly find some games that you would wanna play in their.

[@AdnanAhmed]

I think we need an interview with Coalition about the Unreal Engine shader compilation. They handled it really well and they can tell first hand why most developers are having this issue.

[@DarkReturns1]

Would love to hear from the Coalition! Their work in general with Unreal Engine 4 has been amazing

[@luigilauro]

I think you kind of missed a point on VRR importance, even for games with a stable fixed 30/60fps cap or even PS4 games. Nowadays most of the times you have to pick either a much better "quality" mode (e.g. higher resolution and/or settings) at 30fps, or a worse "performance" mode at 60fps. Usually it's a very hard choice because you want the better quality mode, but the delta between 30 and 60 fps is HUGE, so the majority of people would choose 60fps in most cases, getting a worse resolution/visual quality (in some case significantly worse, see HFW performance mode shimmering). VRR with an unlocked frame rate would allow us to get the best of both worlds: the better/higher resolution, but with a 40-50 VRR frame rate which would feel very very close to a 60fps cap both in terms of smoothness and input lag. To me this is a *HUGE* plus for unlocked frame rates and VRR, even for games with a perfectly stable 30/60fps cap.

[@janderson0719]

If most studios can do what Insomniac has done, that would be ideal.

[@blkdragon1013]

I agree

[@johannessguten2527]

Also the performance modes can now have REALLY high frame rates as well which still makes them useful

[@mikkokoponen8464]

I don't think they missed the point. They talk about it on the video. Also ps5 vrr doesn't work below 48 if I understood correctly, so not enough.

[@sumitchaudhary343]

Exactly what i was thinking

[@startedtech]

I've been loving the adjustable refresh rate on the steam deck, 45 FPS feels very good. Smooths out drops and boosts battery life.

[@Alucard15423]

Its amazing! The difference in batterie usage between 30 and 40 fps is negligible (maybe 10%) but the improvement in perceived smoothness is huge!

[@goliathsix6512]

Hope to join the Steam Deck gang soon. I'm Q3 :(

[@SlyNine]

@@goliathsix6512 No, I'm Q3. Don't dare take my deck!

[@payless51980]

Can't wait to get my Deck!

[@Aristowi]

EVERY game should have a demo, just like when PS3 and 360 launched their digital stores, I used to download a lot of demos to see which game caught my attention and was worth buying, I even had a lot of fun playing games for a couple of hours even though I didn't buy them. Too bad that is lost now and now it's going to be a paid feature.

[@lordxboss5700]

I can see XBOX adding the same feature directly onto their store for free. I prefer the demos to the timed trials but we'll see which developers choose to do which.

[@glowerworm]

Demos hurt sales. It's a statistic fact. That's why devs stopped making them, and why they won't start making them again.

[@logicalfundy]

@@glowerworm Quite a few games on the Switch have demos. Most of the "hurt sales" comes from players who just didn't like the game anyways, so the extra sales comes from exploitation - something we should strive to have less of, rather than more of, in the gaming industry.

[@DEVILTAZ35]

There are plenty of demos on the store . Sometimes they just don't tell you anymore. Also with XBox you often get previews in Alpha or Beta level program. I have been playing Third Eidelon Beta which is a pretty cool RPG with strategy turn based combat and an interesting story. Then you get to submit a short report on what you liked or didn't like about it etc. It's a cool way to feel more engaged and not so detached from Devs these days too.

[@JudeTheYoutubePoopersubscribe]

@@LexVVTiS300 I got a series S in 2020 and the 12 month gold option was never available to buy on the Microsoft store. They didn't "just" remove it shits been gone for years. If you really want that go to a store and buy a code.

[@travisc123]

Sadly, after dumping the PS4 Elden ring off of my PS5 hard drive for a week and playing the PS5 version exclusively with VRR engaged, I finally reluctantly had to admit that the micro stuttering and screen tearing that was still happening, though much better, was still a deal breaker. It doesn't even bother me that much aesthetically, but in heavy combat I want that action going as fast as possible, and that's when the stuttering was happening the most. Also when riding Spirit, you want it as fast and smooth as possible for maximum immersion, and that just wasn't happening. Oh well, back to 1080p short grass for me :-( Separately, based on what they are saying here, I think we can sum up vrr on the PlayStation in a few sentences: at its best, it's actually better than what Xbox does, with the Insomniac games being the example. But at its worst, it's not as good as Xbox implementation, with the reduced range that it has.

[@waelal-zubieri5358]

I think there needs to be shift on language for this shader compilation issues. I think the word stutter minimizes how bad it is. The stalling for over second is not a stutter. It's the game freezing. Freezing is more scary for devs then stuttering. The latter could imply something like v sync frame rate drop stutter. Or frame pacing issues. Those are far less problematic IMO then the whole game stalling like it does in games like Edlen Ring.

[@bearpuns5910]

I’m playing Elden Ring on PC and while the experience is pretty okay, I’m gonna have to agree with you on the hitching. It’s more like freezing if it lasts for over a second - sometimes multiple times in quick succession.

[@zues287]

It really is pretty bad in Elden Ring. It has been greatly reduced the more I've played the game, but when the game freezes for a second anytime something new is rendered, it ruins the experience of exploring. I don't like the idea of having to experience everything in the game before the game runs smoothly. Not to mention the freezing for over a second during boss fights has gotten me killed a few times. I'm running a 3080 and 5600x and I'm never over 60% GPU or CPU utilization even when I render at 4k max settings on my TV. There's no reason the game shouldn't run smoothly.

[@EposVox]

I'm loving all this talk about making displays better. Keep fighting the fight!

[@bloodbond3]

*Low Framerate Compensation (LFC) Explained* : 1) The hardware limit minimum for HMDI 2.1 VRR is 48 Hz (48 fps) 2) LFC tricks this limit by turning 60 FPS content into 120 FPS by just displaying the frames twice 3) When the FPS is 53, it becomes 106 (similar to what John said) 4) With this trick in place, the 48 FPS limit is effectively cut in half, so you can drop as low as 24 FPS before you lose VRR. (Because your game is running at 24fps but the console sends each frame twice to the TV as "48 fps")

[@getdrinking]

120hz doesnt work wih lfc on ps5, only 60hz. This and other things is the reason why ps4 games do not benefit from vrr unlike xbox Games have to support 120hz mode for lfc to function. Thats why some games need specific patches. Ps5 does not support system wide 120hz in games, and thus lfc does not function. So a game cant magically make 53fps become 106fps because theres no lfc unless the game is patched to support 120hz. And the hardware limit for vrr is 40hz (without lfc. 20hz with lfc) on every other device except the ps5. Sony only uses 48hz because their newer televisions cannot do 40hz minimum - because they are shit

[@DEVILTAZ35]

There is an isuse with the C1 though as it can only drop to 40 for VRR where as newer OLEDs can go as low as 20. I really wish Digital Foundry would update their screen lol.

[@spideeno7333]

@@DEVILTAZ35 TV doesn't matter, 48fps is a PS5 limit even when the TV supports lower

[@spideeno7333]

@4K 60FPS each game needs to be updated to support 120hz mode, that would automatically allow for LFC to work

[@getdrinking]

@4K 60FPS both the display and the ps5. Games need to run in 120hz mode to support lfc and the display needs to support lfc aswell. Lg cx/1/2 do for example.

[@cryev]

I like a lot the perspective of John in all things preservation and physical media. Always love to see some major YT channels and people with huge follower numbers talking about the things that really matters. Keep up the good work!

[@thingsiplay]

I usually don't like listening to discussions like this. But I can listen to you all day long. The content is good and you guys as persons are very nice to listen to. I did not expect to enjoy this so much.

[@AndyGilleand]

The stutter happening is because of DirectX 12, not anything specifically Unreal is doing. DirectX 12 was designed to make shaders more efficient by compiling them directly based on the exact GPU and exact driver you have. This makes the shader code run a heck of a lot faster than it did when it had to basically have a runtime translation from api to the driver, which is what all previous DirectX versions did. It gets you closer to what consoles have always been able to do, as consoles don't need drivers the same way PCs do, developers can just program directly to the GPU if they want, and any API they might use in development gets compiled directly to GPU code, no driver involved. The drawback is that every PC has different hardware, so you can't compile it in development. It HAS to be done on the PC. It should absolutely be standard that every single shader be compiled during install, and any updates to these shaders be handled every time you run the game. Yes, it's an inconvenience, but if you want to avoid stutter, that's the only way to do it. This isn't Unreal's fault, and really has nothing to do with Unreal. The blame is on Microsoft for how they designed DirectX 12. It has some good ideas in it, but without precompiling before play time, there will always be stutter, no matter the engine.

[@T.O.Wallee]

I like john’s PS5 VRR’s explanation in detail

[@Nolasco.]

I must say i love Rich's smile when John goes on in the last question 1:11:41 😅🤣 Thanks my dudes 💕

[@MrKreisKlinge]

Thanks for explaining the limitation regarding the VRR "window". I was wondering why Elden Ring felt generally smoother than it did before, but not all the time.

[@MrRaitzi]

Sony should have also put freesync support that AMD gpu in PS5 has and has superior VRR performance with low frame rate compensation system.

[@johannessguten2527]

@@MrRaitzi Lfc wouldn’t even be needed cause the fidelity modes are consistently above 40 just not 48 of Sony had made the range 40 we would be golden

[@kill3rbyysight]

may b it's not technically possible to have both?

[@kill3rbyysight]

and for the matter xbox has 40 level vrr then y elden ring not able to look good on xbox either??

[@kill3rbyysight]

@Raitzi may b then u wud not hv features wat insomniac is offering you now

[@warweeny5127]

VRR on consoles, now watch developers slack on performance because the ps5/xbox support vrr and you get 55~ fps games and ruin it for the rest.

[@VanTesla]

It can be used as an excuse for sure. Still going by prior generations it won't in my view change non stable frame rates much. PS3 and 360 for most AAA games never held 30FPS usually and was joked as average 24 FPS for "movie" quality... Then One and PS4 had issues in many first party games again being locked or stable 30 or 60FPS. My long point is I don't see this being a reason for games frame rate getting worse on consoles. As they been bad for prior generations already. Just another excuse the game companies can use to obfuscate bad performance and lack of investment in game performance.

[@maxminy5634]

I really hope not. Games on Xbox have been like that all gen but I think that was more in line with MS trying to show a better resolution that PlayStation.

[@SC0RPI0NFURY]

That's exactly why Sony are setting the limit to 48hz before VRR starts working on the PS5 to prevent sloppy game developement, this limit will "force" developers to deliver above 48hz. Btw 48-55hz is actually great. Try play Rachet & Clank at 40fps in RT mode

[@HorseheadNebula85]

This thing is absolutely incredible. I wake up one morning to find Valve implemented a solution that allows you to effectively take advantage of the headroom above 30 fps offered by some games. I'm playing Doom Eternal at incredibly high fidelity and still pinging at a locked 50 fps. HOW is Valve doing this so effortlessly? I get that the Deck has its issues, but Valve is ironing them out while continuing to throw in value-added features that make this thing worth 2-3x what they are charging for it. Absolutely feels like I won the lottery getting this thing so early into 2022.

[@arials101]

24:50 John looking frightened and confused when Rich says he can find frame rates lower than 60FPS tolerable.

[@Owlero]

You can seem him mouth the words "oh my god" lol

[@muhithkalam9551]

So when are we getting the proper PS5 VRR video? And will it cover HDMI 2.0 support?

[@SC0RPI0NFURY]

You need HDMI 2.1 for VRR on the PS5. Sony are future proofing, HDMI 2.1 will be the standard for the next 8-10 years

[@muhithkalam9551]

@@SC0RPI0NFURY John and others have already confirmed that there is limited support for 2.0 so I want them explain what's going on with 2.0 if they do a video on VRR.

[@SC0RPI0NFURY]

@@muhithkalam9551 Alright gotcha. There is a webside btw HDMI forum where all VRR TV's are listed, even the few older TV's without HDMI 2.1

[@MatthewNichols0]

VRR looks identical to other modes on my Samsung QN90A. If you're seeing worse image quality, it could be due to the PS5 switching to 120Hz mode. Because of the 32gbps PS5 limit, 120Hz mode displays at 4:2:2 (YCbCr) and 60Hz mode displays at RGB (on an HDMI 2.1 connection). I've found that when this mode switch happens, the TV continues to treat the 120Hz mode's YCbCr as full range, even though YCbCr is limited range. This means that blacks are brighter than they should be, and bright areas are dimmer. A solution is to set RGB mode to use "Limited" color rather than "Full", and this eliminates the mismatch when mode switching.

[@gavinderulo12]

Yes. Vincent from Hdtvtest found this as well. The best solution is if your TV supports the option "auto". Then you don't have to worry about it.

[@MatthewNichols0]

@@gavinderulo12 This is similar, but a different from what Vincent mentioned. My TV supports "Auto", but it seems that it doesn't adjust when the PS5 changes modes. So, my TV is still on Auto, but I am forcing the PS5 to always output "Limited" so it doesn't switch between Full and Limited when switching from 60hz to 120hz.

[@lecorsaire2283]

It’s the decreased FALD in Game Mode that plays a bigger role on LEDs, not chroma subsampling. The vast majority of people cannot see the difference between 4:2:0, 4:2:2 and 4:4:4. The difference is most noticeable with colored text on PC displays.

[@MatthewNichols0]

@@lecorsaire2283 It's not the chroma subsampling per se that's causing the issue. The issue is that RGB is (by default) using Full color range (0-255 in 8-bit) and YCbCr uses Limited range (15-235). When the source device switches from one to the other, it seems that this TV is not adjusting to the new range (so instead of showing 15 in Limited as pure black, it shows it as a dark grey, and instead of showing 235 as bright white, it shows it as a dimmer white). If you change the PS5 to output RGB as Limited, then the TV always interprets the input as having a Limited range of 15-235 and there are no problems. Once this is fixed, on the QN90A, there's very little to distinguish VRR Game mode from Movie mode, other than the local dimming is more conservative in VRR Game mode (so you will see slightly more of a "glow" around bright areas that have dark backgrounds)

[@GordonGordon]

Woot! That steam deck frame rate adjustment... Looking forward to it

[@GamingTech-YouTube]

I tested Ghostwire Tokyo on my channel and I found that LFC is NOT working. As soon the FPS falls below 48FPS VRR turns off and you see stuttering. Ghostwire Tokyo is having a 120Hz mode so LFC should work perfectly. The Xbox X shows how LFC should work like in Elden Ring. Also other videos on KZbin shows that Ratchet and Clank and Spiderman NEVER fall below 48FPS in the Fidelity VRR Mode. This can be another proof that LFC is currently not working on the PS5. With currently I mean it is possible that Sony can activate it because as I understand LFC is part of VRR HDMI 2.1 but not a mandatory feature. Thanks

[@Alex_Logan22]

Don’t worry John, Kojima’s gonna make a streaming game we’ll all be happy with.

[@asvphios9996]

Bruh I’m sure we’ve all been waiting for days for this one…I’m glad y’all took your time.

[@o_KingOfKings_o]

Man I love vrr on my ps5 with my c1 48” , elden ring feels smooth and sharp in the 60fps mode and devil may cry 5 I force 120fps with RT feel good

[@TerraWare]

Nice I grabbed a 48 C1 last week to use for pc gaming. It looks amazing.

[@piensluc7444]

I am still on my 65inch LG CX and is the best tv i owned for gaming !! The c1 is a beast also grab one if you can because the C2 is not better they even removed 120 bfi !!!

[@willjohnboy]

Got my 55 inch lg c1 the same day the ps5 vrr patch came out great stuff althoughI ordered the TV at the beginning of the month longest 2 plus weeks ever.

[@TerraWare]

@@willjohnboy Congratulations. Chances are if it's been somewhat recently manufactured that it has the new EVO panel that's in the C2 or the current G models. One way to easily tell according to the internet is to look at the model number on the TV or box and if the fourth letter after the period is a P or a W you should have an EVO panel. Mine was manufactured in January 2022 and has P as the 4'th letter in the model number after the period and I ended up checking the service menu to make sure and it says WBE which is the new EVO panel. If it says WBC it's the older original.

[@gameindustryinsider6450]

Do a video specifically on the vrr implementation in the insomniac titles. It is a game changer - especially in fidelity modes. Even RC feel even better with vrr in fidelity mode now.

[@Cosmycal]

My Samsung TV Q95T is one of those exceptions, doesn't disable local dimming with 4K 120Hz VRR HDR all enabled, it's great.

[@envirovore]

funny that the solar array to power a PC was made as a quasi joke, I made the same comment to a friend last year, how it'd be pretty awesome if it were possible to set up a solar array and battery back up that would be able to generate and store enough power to push these new higher end consumer parts.

[@metachuko]

John's lighting looks way better in this Direct

[@MisterReen]

Upgraded with an influencer lightning kit :D

[@Jereb343]

That bespoke podcast GI mustave gotten a bounce or three extra for the fullfat recording experience

[@nicktalksbond]

They turned on ray tracing.

[@VherrToIs]

I love John with his sass! 😁 Great teamwork! Keep it up guys 🙏

[@vanceg4901]

You made me want to get Soldier Of Fortune on PC. Great fun time watching you play the various versions.

[@JurisKankalis]

Happy to see John is out of the blue! Well done for the episode, long-time subscriber from the glorious country of Latvia.

[@DGFTardin]

I agree with Tamer Eskander: The ultimate solution to game preservatio has to be digital, and we kind of already have a template for that in piracy, except that it isn't legit. Look at those 1000 usd old games, can we really say physical media preserved them?

[@Hazmatt36000]

Sony gets VRR after forever and still can’t get it right 😂

[@livingcorpse5664]

In my opinion, physical and digital should both be used to preserve a game. Both can have something happen to them to make them no longer usable, so its best to have a back up for your back up.

[@calmarfps]

There are some nice news for Alex! :) There is a F2P game, Vampire The Masquerade - Bloodhunt it's a UE4 game, and there is a shader compilation process when player loads up for the first time to the main menu. Gameplay is lag/stutter free, AAA devs/publishers have now zero excuess to not implement something like this.

[@dan_loeb]

Games have been doing shader precompilation for almost two decades now. I really don't understand why this went away for some games recently.

[@JudeTheYoutubePoopersubscribe]

@@dan_loeb lazy millennial devs

[@S1FT3R]

A VRR window of 48-60hz on a 60hz game is a good thing. It pushes developers to be better. A 40-60hz windows allows developers to be less and just let VRR pick up the slack.

[@johannessguten2527]

But it ruins unlocked fidelity modes like insomniacs (they are consistently above 40 just not above 48) fidelity mode while better would be literally perfect if the range was increased to 40

[@dsidebotham]

Digital foundry key words: Bespoke, in the here and now, by and large. Legendary words.

[@king_gt7996]

Why is John saying PS5 VRR is system level? It is not. Just like 120hz is not system level for PS5. There is an toggle called OFF and AUTO for 120hz and for VRR. There is no ON which would make it system level. Just like the AUTO 120hz on PS5 which means depending on the game you can get 120hz but most times it is 60hz. The AUTO VRR on PS5 is not on the dashboard and only triggers on PS5 games and when you start the game which causes the handshake issue that defeats the purpose of HDR container for the OS. XBOX has 120hz at all times from the OS to the games so that means half the input lag in all games over PS5 unless the PS5 game is 120hz and offers 30 to 120hz range which covers all games basically. Plus if you do not want to spend money on HDMi 2.1 tv you can use AMD Free Sync on Xbox which you cannot on PS5. Not to mention 1440p for those with monitors of that resolution.

[@jcdenton41100]

There's literally a toggle on or off on xbox for vrr so that must not be at a system level right?

[@king_gt7996]

@@jcdenton41100 There is a OFF and ON DUmmy. Not an OFF and AUTO

[@king_gt7996]

@@jcdenton41100 WTF are you talking about. There is an option to turn ON and OFF on PC and XBOX. On PS5 there is OFF and AUTO which means you do not control it The system does. ON PC and XBOX YOU CONTROL the VRR being on or OFF...Auto? FOH

[@seydaneen8970]

john knows more about this topic than you do dude

[@pogtuber5146]

I don't care about VRR until 30 fps "High Quality" modes like in Horizon Forbidden West get unlocked framerates so that we can at least enjoy these high quality graphics at 30+ fps

[@phrozac]

As far as I'm concerned, PS5 VRR is a huge boon. I just tested out RE8 in areas that I knew would always judder, namely the village center and the main hall in Castle Dimitrescu...smooth as silk. If you have an HDMI 2.1 display, you're golden.

[@DEVILTAZ35]

VRR is amazing. It's good PS5 owners finally get to experience what Xbox gamers have been banging on about for some time :) . There is so much misinformation on other sites though. CX Oled and earlier have a range of 40-120 hz , C1 OLED and newer have a range of 20-120 hz. It's probably why some are still complaining it might not seem as smooth as others at certain times.

[@Markis5150]

XBox got GamePass,which shits on you and Sony's poor service thats coming. LOL @4K 60FPS

[@JudeTheYoutubePoopersubscribe]

Ps5 VRR is garbage. On the series X version of village you don't even need VRR because the 10tf ps5 is TRASH! and can't hold 60 with rt on.

[@redfirefox3568]

@@JudeTheKZbinPoopersubscribe I get an occasional stutter in RT mode when I play on series x especially in the later levels so yes it needs vrr

[@redfirefox3568]

@@Markis5150 I haven't downloaded a game on game pass since Forza so who cares and Halo is dead.

[@SCMabridged]

25:01 "the half-rading shate"

[@jackpostkun4372]

i feel a lot of these clever frame rate options in games wouldnt be a thing without DF. the work you guys do is amazing and important

[@antivanti]

The bigger problem with physical media for preservation as it is today is that the disc today just contains some unfinished version of the game. Unlike back in the cartridge days.

[@edulinares7152]

DF, please keep hitting on these issues with VRR on PS5. Sony has to fix it. Implementation is way too lackluster at the moment. Let's make some noise, hopefully they will listen and fix it.

[@weaverquest]

They left it up to the developers which in the case of Fromsoftware means ER will never get fixed.

[@edulinares7152]

@@weaverquest As I understand it, Sony has capped VRR / LFC to only work above 48fps, when they could bring it as low as 20fps. That would not only fully fix Elden Ring, but even 30fps games like Horizon FW would massively benefit.

[@arbeitslos4247]

@@edulinares7152 and they may have did it because their OLED TVs also have only 48-60 VRR specs.

[@johannessguten2527]

@@arbeitslos4247 so they pushed a brand instead of better tech they are sleazy

[@SC0RPI0NFURY]

There are no issues, Sony are setting the standard for the entire gaming industry and people needs to follow up and upgrade their hardware as soon as they can or want, that is it. Sony are thinking 10 years into the future with HDMI 2.1 in mind

[@theexile4694]

I rang the bell and I got the notification 12 hours later. "Instant Notifications" - KZbin

[@the7egend]

Sony not supporting FreeSync capable monitors was a huge oversight, especially when Xbox supports them.

[@DoctorHades]

Surely the stuttering issue with Unreal Engine 4 on PC lies entirely with Epic who provide the software for developers to use in games? If their is shader-compilation stutter with DX12 then Epic need to code the engine to work around this when developers use it on PC with DX12. I think leaving it to developers to fix is not a good look for the engine personally and in my own experience I have had a lot of issues with Unreal Engine games to the point where I now play most of my games on Xbox Series X and PS5 as opposed to PC. It does beg the question though of how this stuttering issues passes Quality Assurance. Does no-one testing the games honestly think to themselves: "Hang on a minute, why is this game stuttering so much? It's actually annoying me to the point where I consider it to be 'unplayable'."? I find it hard to believe that the developers themselves don't notice this issue.

[@GreggyAck]

I enjoyed the slow news week for the last episode, was a nice 'hangout' vibe. Glad to see news is picking back up, though.

[@SasquatchsCousin33]

John might have just nailed the reason why 120hz BFI is gone from C2 oleds

[@haloharry97]

Do you know where in the video, he was talking about this?

[@WeinerTouchy]

@@haloharry97 Use of VRR while using BFI can cause the screen to flicker when the frame rate drops below the VRR threshold. He claims that it's so bad that it could possibly induce a seizure.

[@haloharry97]

@@WeinerTouchy I thought you can't use bfi if vrr is enabled?

[@WeinerTouchy]

@@haloharry97 Select TV's will let you, C1 and CX included. Having both really kills the brightness of the TV so it's not really recommended.

[@dragothica4925]

Wasn''t Days Gone by Bend Studios one of those pretty good UE4 titles without any shader compilation stuttering? Or am I completely wrong?

[@benozkleenex]

Maybe down the road but at launch it was a stuttery mess.

[@williamcrms]

Just heard FSR 2.0 is coming to MS Flight Simulator. Hope y’all can cover that at some point in a future video!

[@kendokaaa]

Noice

[@Pruflas-Watts]

I don't understand why we aren't getting Freesync on PS5. This literally leaves out so many monitors and display possibilities for people who don't have an HDMI 2.1 display. I'm so utterly disappointed between that and not having 1440p resolution support. Good God Sony, get it together.

[@CP-vj6yn]

Sony have had for years API to setup timed demos. Very little work on the dev side.

[@SlickOnTop]

Static Refresh rate is something that should be explored by AMD and Nvidia for their GPU drivers.

[@mercuriete]

On Linux we have amdgpu freesync video modes. You need to have a freesync monitor and the operative system expose 48hz and some other refresh rated not exposed by the screen natively. If you are smart enough you can recompile the kernel changing that magic number to another number you want. So summarizing on Linux the feature is there but It is not arbitrary but compiled on the kernel. The use case is for matching video cinematic 24fps to the refreshrate.

[@SlickOnTop]

@@mercuriete Nice.

[@DeToxCommunity]

You can already do this in the driver, it's just not super consumer friendly and I'm not sure it can be. Valve can do this with the deck because it's a fixed piece of hardware. All screens will deal with different refresh rates differently, it's very much a case by case basis, and there are a lot of timing things beyond refresh rate that need to be accounted for that are normally completely hidden to the user.

[@krissrock]

VRR with BFI via Dolby Vision... DV only available on the Xbox

[@JJSideshowBob]

The 40-60 Hz feature is huge. I've found that, for example, 46 Fps @ 46 Hz is the perfect sweet spot for me between framerate and power/temps/noise (on this handheld anyway). As long as you hit the target framerate in a stable manner, things will feel surprisingly smooth while lasting longer on a single charge and most importantly - the fan runs much, MUCH quieter.

[@conoraq]

Regarding digital preservation - You can fit .iso copies of every single Gamecube game ever produced onto a 2TB hard drive small enough to fit in your pocket. Even if you were to store five sets of those games on five separate drives for security's sake, that would still be infinitely more convenient and manageable than storing physical copies of every single game. I really don't see the argument for physical preservation at all, I feel it actually just boils down to people having emotional attachments to pieces of plastic/paper.

[@modestyblaise4167]

There’s currently zero chance of ever having a DRM-free digital library on consoles when we don’t even own the games we purchase digitally anyway. The late Steve Jobs once told an interviewer that unless music files being sold are equal or better than pirated mp3s, people will always steal it. Then Apple and EMI launched DRM-free music on iTunes and the record companies were in shock. Will that ever happen in gaming?

[@andygray8307]

Did i really miss a video where Alex joined up with Linus?

[@sicparvismagna6526]

Insomniac Games is releasing with 0 effort these very cool patch for free for everyone of their games. In the meantime the other studios are for some reasons keeping quietly everything...

[@5izzy557]

I'm so glad I have this video to point out to people that the steam 40hz screen update isn't VRR.

[@adamthompson6669]

I’m hoping for some DF retro on morrowind, happy 20th anniversary morrowind and thanks DF do love the weekly. Keep it up team and great interview with playground games on Forza horizon thanks for sharing 😃. Your going to be busy in June 😱 🤩 😯 😉

[@mash2481]

I’m using a 2020 LG Oled and I’m not having the flashing problem that John talks about. I’ve played pretty much all of the AAA games that have come out in the last 20 years and have never experienced what he talks about.

[@emeraldcelestial1058]

This show makes mondays a lot better

[@thanksbetotap]

That’s a real downer about the 48 Hz floor and lack of Low Framerate Compensation for the PS5’s VRR support. I guess the Xbox version of Elden Ring will forever be the best performing current-gen version despite its poor optimization.

[@Wobbothe3rd]

Most VRR and Gsync/Freesync doesnt work that well below 48 - 40 as the floor is about the best you can hope for, and most VRR solutions can't help with a sudden drop of any kind, regardless of floor.

[@thanksbetotap]

@@Wobbothe3rd The downer though is that the floor is 48 and not 40, and there’s also no LFC below that :(

[@TANuclear]

true and it's not like fromsoft will patch in LFC as they dont care about the performance of their games

[@Whoozurdaddy]

@@thanksbetotap and these are cross gen titles. What happens when the games get more taxing and frame rates above 48 are harder to maintain?

[@akkibajaj705]

That’s not how it works ps5 vrr is still good

[@ka7al958]

DF video challenge (Impossible) : John not mentioning black frame insertion everytime he speaks

[@fellahuman]

Is it me or did they all get new cameras? The color grading and contrast seems better and consistent for everyone.

[@ifstatementifstatement2704]

I am very happy to see Alex obsessing over stuttering/microfreezing because I've been noticing it in a lot of pc games for over a decade now and each time I mentioned it online, other gamers always blamed my pc not being powerful enough, despite running these games on hardware exceeding the recommended specs and running the games at below recommended specs, or blamed me for not knowing how to select graphics options. They were most certainly experiencing the issue too but must have psychologically repressed it to not notice it. In fact microstutter was so bad in pc games at some point that at the start of this gen I was going to switch to console gaming. The last stuttery mess for me was FF VII remake and before that, Star Wars Fallen Order, before that Watch Dogs, before that Call of Duty Infinite Warfare, and so on. After upgrading my pc from a gtx 1070 + ryzen 5 1600 to an rtx 3070 + ryzen 7 3700x + nvme samsung 980 pro, the microfreezing issue is even worse in Fallen Order (and still present in FF VII remake). Just a really really shitty port. Digital Foundry, I am all for signing a petition to get devs and game engine makers to fix that, wherever the blame lies. Especially as mentioned, everyone is jumping on that damn UE5 engine.

[@iamsabit1337]

All the From Software games have serious frame pacing issue regardless of the platform of your choice. Considering the difficulty level of their games that should be the first thing on the developer’s agenda! Even in PS4 BC mode of PS5, Elden Ring still has judder/frame pacing in some boss fights!!!

[@kill3rbyysight]

but still we love from soft games to de end.. this proves perfect fps not that important

[@finaldivine8235]

There is a video of Bad Apple on atari, and if you play it at 144p lines were getting merged together. This what comperession does, it can completely change the image.

[@monkfishy6348]

Having played the Ascent recently (on a high-end PC). They absolutely did not fix the stutter lol.

[@Mopantsu]

FSR 2.0 should help with the issue of a 48-120Hz window. What could be done is only enabling upscaling whenever a game dips below the lower limit of 48Hz. Or have an option to apply it across the entire range to boost framerates further.

[@elektromagnetik2786]

The large majority of PS5 games already have some form of dynamic res scaling implemented. so I doubt FSR 2.0 would make any difference. Maybe slightly better image quality if the game TAA is poor, but even then, is not gonna be massive.

[@jaco5790]

@@elektromagnetik2786 true.. it is coming to ps5 games tho like forspoken

[@icecoldcabbage4329]

Fsr 2.0 is coming to playstation really ? I didn’t think it had access to that feature cause they skipped a bunch of rdna 2 stuff good to know

[@icecoldcabbage4329]

Yea I just checked amd have only announced fsr 2.0 for Xbox so far, and forspoken is using fsr 1.0 and Microsoft’s direct storage solution from what I’ve read

[@jaco5790]

@@icecoldcabbage4329 I'm inclined to think its marketing, fsr 2.0 can work on older gpu's that are weaker than the ps5. (various tech channels mention it) Also forspoken has been delayed. I suspect it will utilise the newer version of fsr upon release possibly.

[@benozkleenex]

This video should at least give people a better understanding of VRR so much miss information on the internet.

[@zoes7434]

I decided to translate Alex's twitter handle. Pure filth

[@beforetheshutter]

Love these weekly videos, always watch the whole thing! But, please can Alex spend a little time on focusing the camera, its really hard to watch his sections and it's bad for the eyes. It's like he's enabled fullscreen VRS 🤪 Thank you for everything you do!

[@eliotwildermann]

Kool but don't games generally perform better on ps5 so having a smaller number for vrr isn't really that bad

[@VampireNoblesse]

Really glad about Ghostwire: Tokyo.., still enjoying it (it might get "repetitive", but love the roaming & gliding through Tokyo.., and still the enjoy fresh action on hard.., s sequel could evolve the franchise)

[@avgnfandon2]

Glad to hear that people are enjoying it, I’m probably gonna grab it on sale

[@griffgames9538]

It is unique.

[@raknikmik]

Love the contrast and color correction this episode (or perhaps more favorable lighting?) so that none of the guys camera feeds look blown out or too different from each other. Also more pleasing to watch at night!

[@uninfamous]

I think the likely best solution is to have developers remove DRM as soon as support for said game ends (with definition to what that is so it can’t be “well, we’re supporting it” bullshit) or ten years after release, whichever is greater.

[@camredding]

John, I had a similar experience last holiday. A game I had on my PS store wishlist two days before was de listed when i went to buy it. :(

[@argeleon89]

I have a Hisense U8G 65. Local dimming works with VRR on the PS5 but not the Series X.

[@MuchWhittering]

What I'm excited for is seeing these games running on PS5 Pro/PS6. Because now that this has been added, we can hopefully take advantage of those systems' power when they happen. Because what we have at the moment is loads of great PS4 games which are stuck at 30fps because they're locked to that and no-one has any interest in patching them to be higher. With this we are hopefully future proofing PS5 games a bit better.

[@1AJBOOMER]

I'm actually really enjoying on the PS5 Spider-Man remastered Spider-Man Miles Morales and ratchet & clank all in the Fidelity mode running at a great frame rate at high quality love it, and that's on LG CX and an LG C1👌🏽

[@johannessguten2527]

It would be even better though if Sony didn’t limit the range to 48 if they had made it even 40 the fidelity mode would be the best way to play the game now

[@bass-tones]

@@johannessguten2527 Does it running at ~40+fps in a 120hz container via LFC (as it now does) have any disadvantages vs “normal” VRR at 40hz? The only disadvantage of LFC that I currently know of is it requires a 120hz mode to work, as opposed to 60hz. Genuinely asking, because I don’t know of any other downsides to LFC.

[@johannessguten2527]

@@bass-tones being in actual vrr range is still better than lfc (although that’s good as well) cause of persistence blur as well as input lag being higher with lfc the fidelity mode can maintiain over 40 all the time just sucks the range isn’t naturally 40

[@PCGH-Benchmarks]

Anti-Stutter Campaign: Count us in! =)

[@ZeitGeist_TV]

VRR on PS5 though doesn’t use freesync which would allow HDMI 2.0 VRR support and thus many more would benefit and still no 1440p support. Hopeful Sony can implement this at a later date because my set is HDMI 2.0 but I have freesync (VRR) with 120fps at 1440p. Microsoft with their freesync support since Xbox One S/X was and still is much better but at least it’s something.

[@kill3rbyysight]

you r not gonna get free sync.. it's all about expensive sync 😉

[@ZeitGeist_TV]

@4K 60FPS Correct and the crazy part too is while freesync goes as low as 40hz on Xbox, Sony's VRR solution also serves no benifit to PS4 or older titles as apposed to freesync on Xbox just works system wide for ALL games. It's still something

[@machinefannatic99]

Im here with a 2005 1080p tv listening about vrr

[@PositronCannon]

And I'm here with a 2020 4K monitor... that can't use VRR with PS5 because Sony are too "special" to support FreeSync on a console with AMD hardware.

[@Jonatan606]

Did you guys change the way you capture your video? The image is darker and more contrasty which I really like.

[@melxb]

why would the 2 hour trials be bad, u are first of all subscribing to get a bunch of games plus bc games and then to get trials of every new game out there is the cherry on top and pretty dope imo... if u like the game u can buy u a physical copy, might not be full 1st party exclusives like gamepass but u still get to try them day and date and even better all the 3rd party ones too essentially which many if any come to gamepass definitely not day and date...obviously devs who want to make demos free for all will as usually, but this is different done by sony for the devs and likely pays devs some percentage out of the higher price being charged by this tier...it could be a game changer really

[@rahulpandey9472]

You know what's better getting them for free. There are free sample of even icecreams here you are paying for those samples.

[@melxb]

@@rahulpandey9472 but again the case is many devs arent doing it and dont want to and those that do still can give them out for free as usual, but this way u guaranteed to get them from everyone even devs who usually wouldn't want to make a demo right (likely because again devs have an incentive/will make some profit), essentially u are getting to play full first 2 hours of all major games, and that is also different from some regular demo here and there that's usually a different build or super short...couple that with the games on offer from the sub service BC included is pretty dope, i mean for me getting yearly ps plus sub for online and such this makes it easily so much better/a why not situation

[@tiagoj8020]

SMMM definitely stutters on fidelity 120hrtz mode. Have a CX. Performance/RT is real smooth!

[@Jereb343]

Sony: Were bringing back mandatory free demos for all games on our platform... Oh? Sony: ...locked behind the highest tier of our subscription service! Oh...

[@lecorsaire2283]

DRM will never disappear. The fact is that DRM especially on the consoles is the only thing preventing from games going the way of music, and both console manufacturers and video game publishers are well aware that this is the case. In addition, removing DRM from console games would disincentivize developers from providing long term support for their games. Why do work for little reward when you can simply focus all of your efforts on your next game which will not be available for free? Don’t mistake my opinion as being on the side of corporate greed. I am simply a realist, and while we like to think of video games as an art form, just like the music business and the movie business, it is first and foremost a business. If we want to continue to get the sort of games we want to play, the studios have to be able to be rewarded for their work. Otherwise the quality of games will surely plummet. Just look at what happened to the promise of mobile gaming after developers realized that people simply weren’t willing to pay $5-10 for more ambitious mobile games.

[@Saturn2888]

Isn't Soul Calibur 6 on Unreal Engine 4? Your video didn't say anything about improper frame pacing or stutters in that game. It's that because it's DX11?