DF Retro Marathon - Water Rendering In Games - The H2O Special

Our run of DF Retro Marathons - combining multi-part DF Retro episodes into single videos - continues, with John's water rendering special 'remastered' into 4K for improved KZbin video playback. In this episode, we're looking at the evolution of water rendering across the generations, singling out particularly special games and the various techniques used.
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[@leftyfourguns]

My heart skipped a beat when I saw this, I thought it was Volume 3! We really need a vol. 3 to explore current gen water, like the amazing water systems in RDR2, Sea of Thieves, and Mario Odyssey just to name a few

[@JoshuaChild84]

Don't forget Horizon Forbidden West.

[@lorenzotosiart]

TOTALLY!

[@Danmcrea]

I would also recommend to check out water in Elex and Elex 2. I was always amazed how it looked for an AA game. The way the streams and rivers flow, and take all rocks under consideration is simply amazing

[@autex2609]

It may not be the most impressive by today's standards but Wave Race water makes me the happiest. They encapsulated the spirit of a nice sunny day on the water.

[@yvesrn]

I remember being blown away by the water effects in Metal Gear Solid for PS1. I wish that had gotten a mention.

[@Matt25th]

I was waiting for it to get a mention and was surprised when they moved onto the next generation of consoles. Strange omission given the impact of the series.

[@DarshUK1]

GTA4 has great water and is kinda retro (it’s release date is closer the Waverace 64 than today)

[@yewtewbstew547]

This comment made me feel extremely old lol.

[@The_Stolas]

I'm so old

[@lilpain1997]

I still remember the GTA SA release day and me as child being blown away by it lmao. Then GTA IV came out and I legit didn't understand how they would ever get better than that. Time really does fly by huh

[@RealFlicke]

GTA IV also introduced the most impressive character physics engine ever created into a AAA game.

[@JaimeMargary]

You can't just say things like that to people 💀🪦

[@TrepeGB]

The water in Wave Race 64 is still some of my favourite water effects in games.

[@petrlazar5240]

It was... waves ahead of its time.

[@markxv2267]

It created a wave through the gaming industry

[@bobkerr2755]

What's even more impressive is that it's still actually fun to play. I still enjoy it even more than the sequel.

[@Johnjrambo75]

Blew me away when I saw it first.

[@TrepeGB]

@@bobkerr2755 It’s like an arcade game & it’s still so fun to play.

[@geminijinxies7258]

The water in Mario Sunshine is still impressive today. We get reflection, refraction and proper physics while swimming etc. Nintendo is the king of water and it all started with Wave Race 64!

[@HOSKINGJ]

This was (and is) a simply excellent series and I’m glad it’s now in an even higher quality. I’d be fascinated to see John or DF do similar videos for other elements eg. smoke

[@joejoe2658]

rather a video about what they smoke while gaming.

[@iangriffinadams]

Completely agree! Smoke, Grass, Skyboxes. I have wanted these videos from them ever since this dropped the first time

[@antonlouthander7748]

Fire!

[@TonyTynebridge]

John's fantastic in these videos

[@kikiphallin]

@@antonlouthander7748 Fire would be so awesome

[@Simte]

I absolutely love this compilation. Ever since the Ps1 days I have been obsessed with water rendering and Skyboxes in games.

[@Goober89]

I'm such a nerd for stuff like this. So glad DF still outputs such great DF Retro content.

[@Swisshost]

It's a reupload.

[@Goober89]

@@Swisshost You're a reupload

[@LateNightHalo]

I’m so glad you spent so much time on Mario Sunshine and Halo 3. Those games still have some of the best looking water I’ve seen in a game. Mario sunshine has the visual authenticity and halo 3 has the interactive authenticity

[@j.r.shartzer]

I never thought about it before, but in Metal Gear Solid on PS1, you start right next to water and can walk around in it full submerged. If you do, the camera drops down into the water, and I think it's the only time in the game that the camera actually looks up at Snake. It's a good artistic choice. The camera submerges to make the player feel as if they had been submerged with Snake. Logistically, I imagine this angle also allowed them to achieve their underwater effect by simply applying a filter to the camera. It looks great. Weirdly green, but everything looks appropriately wavy. Snake just movies a tiny, little bit slower, but his physics seem mostly unaltered. I love little technical details like that, which not only help creators clear logistic hurdles but actually help tell the story or express a vibe in a more abstract way. "You didn't notice it, but your brain did." Above the surface, the water slowly rises up and down in different intervals and has a nice (for its time) ripple effect. It's good, but that underwater camera shift is what this video has me thinking about, in particular.

[@blazzing]

The gameplay created by the water effects in WAVERACE 64 and subsequently the Gamecube sequel is still unmatched on any game to date........in my opinion

[@Forzalanes]

Don't forget the Orca's on the last course🐳

[@vonmillhausenplays]

I'd still love to see a deep-dive on Trespasser. There's a lot to talk about with that game: the early full-world physics system (used even for player locomotion), the inverse-kinematics used for dinosaur animation, the impressively in-depth foley system for audio, the unusual world-scale 3D coordinates shared between levels, the production issues and behind-the-scenes drama with the game's development, Stephen Spielberg's involvement, the pre-release promotion vs. what was actually shipped, the work the fan community has done in terms of recovering lost content, etc.. I hope it's still on your radar to do! 🤞

[@reav3rtm]

I can't count how many times I played demo version when it was out when I was a kid. That was scary experience!. Full version was a bit of letdown but I still look at it with nostalgia!

[@blalesnail3098]

The LP of it by Research Indicates is one of the best of all time.

[@vonmillhausenplays]

@@blalesnail3098 If I recall correctly, @ThreadbareInc also used to have an excellent Let's Play of it, but it seems like their videos of it no longer exist on their channel, unfortunately!

[@mjc0961]

Bringing me back to the good ol' days of Miiverse with this one.

[@saphricpcgaming5182]

Great looking water for a gba game.

[@balaam_7087]

This one is minor and fairly obscure, but I recall at the time thinking the water in Ico on PS2 looked quite a bit better than in most other games of the era. There were only small pools of it here and there in some sections, but it was pretty detailed for the time.

[@kazirk8]

This is one of the best things you guys have produced. More videos like this focusing on solutions for specific aspects of games please!

[@FigmentHF]

Man, Waverace 64 day was such a great day. It was realised in the U.K. on my birthday. Got it from game at 8am and went to Alton Towers (U.K. theme park) with fiends and then got Pizza Hut and went home and had a sleep over and we played Waverace for about 8 hours straight. Thanks Mum 🙏🏻

[@riansillett2771]

Thats a fantastic memory to have. N64 game nights were untouchable back in them days

[@bananachild1936]

The water in 'Wave Race 64' is still quite impressive in my opinion. If someone in the hacking or modding community can manage to break the magician's code and bring the game up to full a 60FPS, that would be the dream man.

[@ottomaticallyawesome]

Are you taking about emulation or native hardware?

[@bananachild1936]

@@ottomaticallyawesome Both. But not for the native N64 hardware in particular. A proper stable 30FPS for that console would suffice.

[@Halcos]

I hope it'll be recompiled someday to allow a proper PC version. Similar recompilations of Mario 64 and Zelda gave us fantastic PC ports with smooth 60 fps (or even 120 in case of Zelda)

[@ottomaticallyawesome]

@@bananachild1936 fair.

[@bananachild1936]

@@Halcos That's what I was hoping. Though I think it's gonna be a very long while before we even get to see such a development. Not only will it be a super complex process, but 'Wave Race 64' itself is also super niche and not particularly the most "mainstream" Nintendo IP out there. So it'll take some die-hard fans of the game who conveniently also knows how coding works in order to get the decompiling job done.

[@callmeivan2064]

Roller Coaster Tycoon 3 has some great water simulation for pools. Cities skyline, despite being a city building game, has water displacement simulation that actually influences how you mould the landscape.

[@unbearifiedbear1885]

Ah yes, the time I removed a whole load of coastal sand to build a port (on pause) and, after spending 45min terraforming, building, adding roads and rail connections, footpaths, beautification, changing traffic priorities and getting it ALL sorted... then when I pressed play, the seawater displaced and my whole City would flood Never overwrite savegames, people 😂😪

[@synnatax]

I will never forget seeing the water in Far Cry PC, had to get SFF Geforce cards in the Dell business computers we had at the office to game on them. Worth every penny.

[@danielnitzan8582]

I Love John's videos and the way he dives deep into computer graphics.

[@Mr.Atari2600]

I was blown away to see Water Animation in Pitfall 2 on Atari 2600.

[@misterburns103]

This man has the taste, the talent, and the trust of gamers everywhere. Vice Project Doom referenced straightaway? Hell yeah! Chef's kiss.

[@ilovelctr]

I think BioShock DX10 and Tomb Raider Legend on the 360 were two of the stunning milestones in water rendering.

[@mrpetebojangles21]

It’s insane how ahead of its time MGS2. Still some of the best looking rain ever, 24 years later. Will always love that game.

[@cyrfung]

What I love about Wave Race 64 is how you can really feel the water physics and it's the core of the gameplay. You really need to work with the water to stay low and go fast or go against it to jump or dive.

[@SweDownhill]

Donkey Kong Country (SNES), Wave Race (N64) and Far Cry Instincts Predator (Xbox 360) are three of my most memorable games in regards to water and water effects. I've been blown away by all of them through the years. Thanks for a fantastic video series! I'm looking forward to part 2.

[@Viddy22]

I enjoyed this video immensely. Nothing better during a lazy Sunday afternoon. Keep em coming!

[@plume...]

What a fantastic episode, thank you very much John

[@big_turk]

John, you're a madman and find new ways for me to appreciate things even more through your crazy levels of knowledge and research. Keep it up!

[@r-test3668]

THIS WAS TOP CLASS! And this is the exact type of contest I like, Big ups!!!

[@41nhs]

I'll never forget seeing water in Bioshock and being stunned by how real it looked. Water in video games looked amazingly beautiful and extremely close to realism in video games during the 2000's, especially in Super Mario Sunshine most prevalently/famously, but Bioshock took that to a whole new level unseen before then.

[@chr1st0pher]

My fav DF video ever, please do more like this !

[@Name-tn3md]

Unlikely this is old video

[@chr1st0pher]

@@Name-tn3md I’m aware, what’s why I said it’s my fav one ever and I’d like to see more like it

[@meatdouglas]

crash bandicoot 3 had some mind blowing water back in the day; surprised it wasnt mentioned; it's always one of the first games that come to mind for me when thinking about water in games...

[@Loundsify]

I think it's because wave racer pre dates crash 3.

[@elastichedgehog6339]

I remember being blown away by the water in Super Mario Sunshine as a kid. I didn't think it could get better!

[@TepidsAnalogueHellscape]

Still my favorite DF thing ever. Peak cozy longform content.

[@Danusko]

Amazing videos. A part 3 would be awesome, plenty of new games and techniques to admire and discuss.

[@gelfrecs]

Amazing video. Love this. Love water. Thanks for making this John

[@yvesrn]

Wow! This one took a lot of work and time to put together. I appreciate the effort. Great job!

[@CountryMouseLaser]

This was most awesome. Enjoyed it thoroughly. Incredible work.

[@TheLastLineLive]

That ripple effect on the surfaces that you showed on fear, I remember that technique being used in serious Sam the first encounter three years prior. That game had a really cool engine for its time imo.

[@SLE3PR]

Great work as usual, John! I've always loved the different ways game devs portray water. Effects work in general is where a lot of the true artistry and wizardry are.

[@copperbadge1]

I wish Hydrophobia was less janky and better known. Those water mechanics and rendering were amazing back in the day.

[@troy8420]

I'd never heard of it before and it looks insane!

[@copperbadge1]

@@troy8420 ikr? The end of the video actually mentions it for it's depth of simulation.

[@Maryokutaizero]

Yeah, I bought it around release but never beat it, so went back to it last year (runs on Series X/S). Hasn't aged gracefully to say the least but the water still looks fabulous.

[@massivepileup]

I think the first design for it didn't get much acceptance, it was initially designed around giving you weapons that are more for environmental manipulation than direct combat, expecting you to use all that flooding and stuff. Players complained and so it was changed to give players more effective direct combat weapons. That leaves it kinda confused as a game.

[@Zinkolo]

Fun fact: with a simple code, Mario Sunshine runs at 60 FPS no problem on a GameCube. The only issue you may encounter is with jumping into portals but it's only a slight issue where you have to wait a few seconds for it to appear.

[@BlastMaster]

The intro to Sports Jam on Dreamcast had the best water, golf ball in the lake. "PLUNK!"

[@plimsickens]

This is so relaxing and so pure. Thank you guys so much

[@TheRoninteam]

This episode was one of the best, really amazing!

[@spladam3845]

This was FANTASTIC John. Thank you.

[@psygnozis]

The PlayStation 1 game Ace Combat 3: Electrosphere showcases stunning water effects.

[@El.Duder-ino]

Another excellent DF Retro ep which is missing only todays most advanced water simulation in games to compare what amazing road graphics went to get here. Still great job, awesome show thx John and DF team!👍

[@stevenbatier6974]

Wave race blue storm is still an incredible master pièce. Excellent work Df❤❤

[@Monticello19]

In Ratchet and Clank Going Commando PS2 there was a hidden developer museum. They had a demo of unused water tech you could run around in and it blew my mind as a kid.

[@duncanknipe8894]

This was a great "deep dive" into water effects, thank you for putting it together. Wave Race 64 blew my mind when it released. In my opinion the best in game water today is hands down Sea of Thieves, both visually and in the simulation.

[@javierfurus5222]

I absolutely love these tech deep dive (pun intended) videos. I adore the tricks used to make games when power was really limited and the tech behind is just so intriguing. Never stop doing these!

[@Swisshost]

BF4 water maps are still 11 years later so impressive. It reacts to objects and vehicles and is MP, so all the players see the same waves.

[@SilverWolvesScarletForestSnow]

Cannot believe you skipped over how amazing MGS2's water looked when swimming under it in that Emma section.

[@sistockbridge8764]

YES! I've always had a fascination with fluid simulation in games. Hydrophobia & From Dust are a few good examples of this if i remember right. And shooting out the fish tank in MGS2 never gets old!

[@KnightMD]

This is the best video that has ever been made, so much that I had to pause it to type this comment because I don't want to miss a second of it.

[@stevenallan5822]

Great video, thanks. Nowadays not only are we wanting realistic water but simulating tides too and how the water interacts with objects.

[@peterkevintaylor]

The video I never knew I needed. Great stuff.

[@pcgamingeconomico3057]

Morrowind's Water was superb, specially when walking trough it and swimming

[@br4kecheckd]

Assassin's Creed Origins, Odyssey and Valhalla have amazing water rendering. Couple with the sound and color pallet the design is amazing.

[@Tremuoso]

ps2-era jello water is one of my favourite graphical effects that brings so much nostalgia

[@cmpalmer]

Nice to see Sea of Thieves make a cameo in the first couple minutes of the video. While obviously not retro (sure, 6 years old, but still actively supported), I'd argue it has some of the most refined water physics we've ever seen and is a true evolution of some of the work spotlighted in this video.

[@audiodrocher]

Really interesting and complicated aspect of CG, thanks for bringing it up.

[@ripster8766]

I love telling younger people to go play waverace 64 to experience the water physics. To me it still feels as good as it did back in the day.

[@FlorianKoelbleitner]

Based on the fact Hydrophobia came out in 2010 and John stated it to be released 8 years ago, this DF Retro episode released 6 years ago. 2018 John would have loved the Sea of Thieves water 😅.

[@TheSterlingArcher16]

I noticed that too. Was this behind a paywall? I don’t remember ever seeing a part 1 or 2 of this.

[@david.godlewski]

I love water in video games. I'd love to see a compilation of brilliant contemporary examples of water sometime!

[@3kliksphilip]

58:35 - Only 8 years since Hydrophobia? Feels much longer than that!

[@mro6973]

This video was first released in 2018 so you are right 😋

[@eddyx92x5]

Nice documentary. I remember during the Bisohock Part how beautiful the art and especially the soundtrack of the game is. Fantastic

[@officegossip]

Virtua fighter 4 on ps2 had some of the best looking and dreamiest water I’ve seen til this day.

[@gio9255]

I’ve always noticed that since the early 2000s, water was a key part of the presentation. Some of the most beautiful water systems is in BOTW/TOTK. The dynamic fluidity of water is a core part to ant game that wants to convince audiences it is pushing next Gen boundaries.

[@GreggyAck]

I watched the original upload about a week ago. Am I going to watch it again here because DF Retro is the best? Yes.

[@FrankenSama]

Legendary video, the first two parts made me sub instantly back then

[@TheFancifulNorwegian]

The water effects in Airheart were mindblowing for 1986, even moreso considering it was an Apple II game.

[@richardwiech]

I love this video! I really appreciate the effort that went into this!

[@alejandroesp4872]

I want the part two of water in videogames right now!!!

[@theblubus]

YESS I've been waiting for this sort of video for so long! :)

[@Doug-mu2ev]

I really love this format John! Nobody can do this type of video except for DF!

[@v1kt0u5]

... and then of course we finally have the pinacle of water in Batman Arkham Knight! \m/

[@RealFlicke]

I didn't expect a documentary series about my favorite topic of graphics. Love it!

[@NothingHereForYou]

This was one of the first DF videos i had watched that got me into DF. It actually was a big moment for me because it influenced this cool game idea i had to be water based.

[@vercetty00]

amazing video, that's for this kind of stuff that i love DF :D During the PS1 era there is also the water levels in Crash Bandicoot 3 with impressive water deformation and physics a bit similar to Wave Race 64.

[@kordelas2514]

Maybe a bit but nowhere close.

[@playstationjr]

Take a look at Axelay (SNES), cave level 4. Amazing how water slows down and splashes with every shot.

[@lesniak60]

I love these kind of videos. Great job John!

[@_evildoer]

More like this please. Love the detailed history of a specific tech in games

[@Sabre_Wulf1]

One 16 bit game of note for pushing boundaries of water replication was psygnosis 'killing game show' on the commodore amiga.I remember that blowing my mind in 1990.

[@ArabianFreedom]

Mario Sunshine is super impressive. Sonic & All Stars 2 water is solid. Crysis on PC is just great.

[@stevedave7617]

The TMNT water level music gave me PTSD but Dire Dire Docks soothed the tension.

[@GamingWithDrew]

Great in-depth work as usual.

[@chalkitdowm]

Wish John would do a part 3! There have been so many games with amazing water in the years since.

[@epicgames_simone]

These kind of videos is why I love DF> Please more of those.

[@Themootilatr]

Wish we could somehow get these with a little addendum for anything new. I love this type of content

[@Grawbad]

I remember when my cousin got a gamecube and I was blown away by Wave Race. The water hitting the screen was amazing to me at the time. Yeah, I get that the water isn't actually hitting the screen. But the effect was perfect.

[@randybutternubs1209]

These were the videos that made me subscribe to DF way back, great to see it again in 4K

[@n64fan60]

Great series. DF Retro should also videos on the history of other FX. Reflections, fire, smoke, rain/snow/weather.

[@greatwhiteevox1008]

Hadn't watched this yet but Metal Gear Solid 2 held the crown for a very long time as well as having melting ice in real time.

[@Atari1337]

This is amazing. PLEASE do Retros on EVERY feature like this. Destruction next?

[@Zerobob26]

My favourite is the water in Tomb Raider 1. There's just something about the distortion, the way Lara moves in it, and the sound effects that combine to make it feel like water! Sea of Thieves is also excellent... Not only is it a beautiful and convincing water effect, but I've never jumped into video game water before and felt so completely out of my depth and vulnerable to what might be lurking beneath.

[@bobbye4369]

I have always wanted a video about this. What a cool concept.