FEEL vs REAL and THE MYTHS OF THE BACKHAND (Maximum Glitch)

If you found this video helpful, you can support me on: / dgspindoctor
Time codes:
00:00 INTRO
01:15 The run-up
02:37 The arm
04:12 To rotate or not?
06:52 The head
08:23 The weight shift
10:04 The follow through
10:39 Back leg action

[@discgolfallday8643]

keeping the head back and hitting lines seem to work against eachother at times. i understand that where the disc flies is based on the line of your approach and backswing, BUT I'm sure being able to see the line, event just slightly, helps hit it. what to do you think? know of anyone who keeps their head back more when throwing far and peeks when hitting lines?

[@dgspindoctor]

For accurate short shots, true. And many players actually look from the corner of the eye, but it depends on the dominant eye. For me it's the left, so I can't look at the disc without turning the head. Great point! Thanks!

[@Chillydall02]

I struggle with this, when I keep my head back I definitely get more distance but it just feels so uncomfortable. And if I’m not actively thinking about keeping it back I always end up turning my head forward and opening my shoulders early.

[@dgspindoctor]

@@Chillydall02 Swing in front of a mirror. Look in the eye and swing your arms.

[@samibberg105]

Awesome explaining again! 👍

[@discgolfallday8643]

@@dgspindoctor I’m a righty who’s left eye dominant as well. It helps with my putting on the golf greens but certainly a hindrance in disc golf. I play a lot of tight wooded courses in New England so I’ve emphasized hitting lines. It’s brutal working on keeping the head back in the woods! Trees!!!!

[@untrustworthyshelfing9953]

All I had growing up was a stoner who told me that throwing a disc was like starting a lawnmower. You're saving lives out here!

[@dgspindoctor]

It can be, but you also have to brace and follow through, which are not part of your typical gardening routine.

[@philmcafee343]

Bro same

[@nordicdiscgolferatrumble9430]

I would argue the lawnmower is a great tip/quickfix for beginners that want to reach 200ft. But it is a horrible tech to keep and build on once youre not a biginner anylonger.

[@dgspindoctor]

@@nordicdiscgolferatrumble9430 I agree. That was well said. Most beginners will swing a straight arm, nose pointing at the target, so telling them to pull the lawnmower gets them to the correct position.

[@nordicdiscgolferatrumble9430]

@@dgspindoctor yes, exactly

[@amembrane]

Glad to see you posting so much lately

[@dgspindoctor]

Got some extra time on my hands. It'll change soon...

[@mortenhalkjrjacobsen3621]

you're a genius and a great teacher, nothing fancy, nothing complicated. "Stand on one foot and move the arm fast" And all that in between off course. Thanks Jaani

[@dgspindoctor]

With the risk of over simplifying things, I try to make it as simple as possible.

[@JordanHunterX]

The backloading of the grip has been a huge game changer for me. Can’t recommend the grip enough - the ability to curl the wrist and get the nose down much easier has been amazing.

[@dgspindoctor]

I'm glad to hear this!

[@entropie]

I second that. Just started messing around with it and have had amazing results. My throws are more smooth accurate and level. Definitely best dg tip in a long time.

[@remysmith6021]

Same!! Thanks Doc! 🤝

[@stefanelf7794]

I’ve been trying it but with varying results. Maybe it’s a low temperature issue, the disc glides out too early from my grip. I will continue to experiment. For putters I always used a modified fan grip anyway, never the power grip.

[@StackOv3rFlow]

I have the same issue. Early release.@@stefanelf7794

[@BlitzDG]

Love the "feel" videos. Impressive to see coaches out there doing what they are saying to do!

[@dgspindoctor]

It's not easy to describe an ideal shot and then try to do it yourself. But we're getting there!

[@Aaretontieminnesevie]

I am almost 100% sure I will improve my drive +20m this year. Mr spin doc in my corner with all the tutorials and tips covering 93% of possible topics there is to throwing a disc, I feel almost unbeatable.

[@dgspindoctor]

Haha, that's accurate enough!

[@ortay3]

Love this topic. I think alot about 'active' thought vs 'passive' movement. One of the biggest traps or learning any athletic movement is focusing on something that should be happening passively. Once we figure out what has to be active vs passive we will finally have the fundamentals of disc golf.

[@dgspindoctor]

Spot on! It is tough to distinguish between the two, looking at videos. We cannot know what someone is thinking of doing and how it shows.

[@stefanelf7794]

Well put!

[@JazzInATinCan]

Great content! I've recently found that I could use my back leg to get my upper body straight (not leaning forward of backward through the throw) and this has (FINALLY) given me control to shoot low lines.

[@gamerguy765]

Feel vs Real is exactly what I need to hear about . Thank you for another great video. Going to need a couple watches to digest this

[@ChrisSolarski]

Always love your content.

[@dgspindoctor]

I appreciate that!

[@JejuneJesuit]

This is an awesome video with a great theme. I started backloading my modified fan grip and putter and midrange shots were as good as they've ever been today. Thank you!!

[@dgspindoctor]

Awesome! And it really doesn't matter if you fan or power grip, backloading only dictates the pressure, and that's the key!

[@lowelindholm2710]

The best concise explanation out there which nails every point.

[@dgspindoctor]

Thank you so much!

[@SpeedZicou]

another banger, keep it up

[@dgspindoctor]

I try to, thanks!

[@Fredebeckdisc]

love your content! out of all the online disc coaches i can relate most of all to your content and swing thoughts! keep it up - your improving the game for ALOT of players!

[@dgspindoctor]

Thanks, nice to hear that.

[@joachimskeppstedt1472]

You have helped me much under this year. (Rookie) 🙏🙏

[@dgspindoctor]

Good. That's the reason I make the videos. I want people like you to avoid the mistakes people like me made when we were rookies.

[@kruksog]

You've got enough people saying it, but I'll chime in too. Great stuff. I've been stuck at about 300 ft max with a 9 speed for like, 6 or 7 years, and just recently, mainly because of you and overthrow (and trebuchet) I've started to push a bit past that. Not much, but a bit. It's a start. As someone who has been pushing against a wall for more than half a decade, it's awesome what you're doing. Though I'm a little mad there's all this good instruction now that I'm figuring out how to throw a bit farther 😅. Thank you so much.

[@okonas-dd6ec]

great!

[@thomaswinzy]

Man you remind me of Wim Hof when you say "let it go" 😆. Great video.

[@dgspindoctor]

Wow, thanks! Wim for the Win!

[@cannons4789]

I have been trying out the new grip style from your last video and have had good and interesting results. You explain disc golf very well, thank you and keep the video's coming!

[@dgspindoctor]

Glad to help!

[@OkieTradez]

thanks for great video.. would be cool if you could do a video on not the line of the walk up "you can add that too" but the angle of your body to the target on said line so we can create room for the disc to pull through etc.

[@dgspindoctor]

Okay, I'll have to think about this. Thanks!

[@cnking27]

If that was the video about gripping with more force in the outside of your hand, it helped me a ton. Re: the diagonal run-up, I think they get this from watching max distance videos and competitions, not realizing that those guys are throwing the disc way left off the tee pad to allow it to fully work right and get a full flight...they aren't moving diagonally and then releasing straight. There aren't many players who do that at all.

[@dgspindoctor]

Yes, people think the tee pad is dictating the run-up, but that's only the course masters suggestion. Some players like McBeth and Gibson do have a bit more diagonal run-up, that is true, but I see them as exceptions.

[@hermaj12]

The swing thoughts distilled to weight shift and fast arm is magic for me

[@OkieTradez]

something ive done to fix not looking at your disc to quickly is practice your swing without a disc while looking into a tiny mirror where you head just fits into it and you can 1 keep your eyes on your eyes so you dont look to early and 2 you can keep your head in the circle which is good to keep you balanced!

[@dgspindoctor]

Yes, a mirror is a good object to focus on.

[@frederiklundov3923]

Some throws calls for a more staggered stance some dont. Hyzer more in Line. Annie more wide stance for me. Depends on footing aswell. Good video as usual

[@dgspindoctor]

Some throws call different lines, that is a fact.

[@OkieTradez]

i like to use the word ACTIVE or actively thinking about vs not etc. when speaking of things you see but dont actually focus on in the throw .. agree?

[@discgolfcourserentalcalend8844]

❤

[@ViJt-oq5nq]

Ok. This actually explains how counterweight works.

[@dgspindoctor]

Yes, a little at least.

[@PR3T3ND1CA]

In a future video, could you address the rotation of your front foot? I struggle with planting on the ball of my foot and rotating my foot as i throw and as a result I have lots of wasted momentum that carries me off the pad instead of into the throw. Thanks in advance from a new subscriber. Great content.

[@dgspindoctor]

This is a subject I'm not sure about. Lots of distance throwers don't rotate as fast as I do with it. Look at Garret Gurthie, look at Wiggins, the foot stays closed. It's not essential to rotate on it.

[@OkieTradez]

watching Eagle i also notice he walks more on a striaght line HOWEVER i do see EAGLE and other pros sort of walk backwards well they show much more of their backs on the run up vs me and most others which walk up on a straight line but more sideways.. i think this will open up room for my hyzers finally realizing this just now!

[@dgspindoctor]

You can definitely show some butt to the target in the run up, just don't back pedal too much.

[@OkieTradez]

BROOOOOOOOOooo i just did this "showed some butt" hit 540ft HOLY SHIZA.. my max before this was 482ftd which felt lucky but this felt easy! oh my gooodness ive been trhing to break 500ft for 2 years straight @@dgspindoctor

[@davidy333]

what shoes are you wearing here? and thanks for all the great content!

[@dgspindoctor]

Thanks! They are Groundies, a barefoot style shoe.

[@yggyking10]

While it's great to not consciously force many or even most aspects of the throw, it's hard to get to the point where the right things happen unconsciously. I think we need to consciously emphasize aspects of the movement in order to later achieve the zen master unconscious throw. In my current fieldwork I rotate through a number of conscious thoughts - plant down before swing, shoulder coil, reach out-not-back, keep elbow up, swing left foot behind, etc. I don't think about everything at once or I would fall over, and I hope that gradually these thoughts will no longer be necessary at all. For now it's helping, I can hit 300' more often all the time.

[@yggyking10]

Put another way, ideally the only thing we would be conscious of is our intention to fling this piece of plastic at that distant metal object, and everything else would be effortless and unconscious. But we must be conscious of the things we need to change in order to achieve more efficiency with less effort - and since I need to change more than you do, I need to be conscious of more than you.

[@dgspindoctor]

Well, if that is the only way you're okay throwing, then that's the way it has to be. I tried to make it simpler for you. Sorry I couldn't. My aim is to help YOU remove your body out of your way. You insist that you need to think about everything and make it hard. That is your choice.

[@yggyking10]

@@dgspindoctor I appreciate your efforts to simplify the throwing mechanics, don't get me wrong. However I think in order to change something I need to be conscious of what should change, and then conscious of how to change it ... and eventually when the change is embedded in my body then I can do it unconsciously. For any given throw I can concentrate on one or maybe two things, so I'm always assessing, "ok, what do I need to think about today?" while I let the rest of it just happen.

[@intrinsic2941]

Great video. I'm still thinking about this but I kind of wonder if a cue of trying to rotate more would be helpful for some people who don't learn to try to force rotation first and don't naturally rotate enough and if trying not to rotate might be necessary for someone who learns to try to force rotation first and needs less of it. I imagine as a coach you make a lot of determinations like this that are based specifically on the problem the individual players are having.

[@dgspindoctor]

I do of course adjust a lot when I do face to face stuff, but I have yet to find a student who got bracing and the follow through in check but didn't rotate enough. That just doesn't seem to happen.

[@intrinsic2941]

@@dgspindoctor Interesting. I think lack of rotation is one of my issues right now. But it could be a complication caused by some other issue(s). I have quite a few right now after getting a Techdisc and learning I was severely elbow dipping and airbouncing. After finally getting my elbow up and timproving my swing-plane, everything else is a bit of a mess right now lol.

[@dgspindoctor]

@@intrinsic2941 Of course it's possible that you back pedal the run up and coil, so that there is 0 tension in the reachback, so that you have to force the rotation towards the target. Thar, or you are so flexible that your body is okay being in a twisted position not wanting to rotate back to neutral. I believe it's the first one.

[@intrinsic2941]

@@dgspindoctor I'm only throwing standstill right now while I rebuild my form. I think my coil is good but I'm not getting enough lag. The new OT thing about using more arm on the disc came out right as I was rebooting my form and I went a bit too extreme with it I think. My throwing arm is just too far ahead. My practice session today seems to have fixed some of the issue.

[@markus_lfc]

Question regarding the footwork: do you consciously push the plant leg down, or try to straighten it once it’s planted? Or is it another thing you recommend to not think about?

[@dgspindoctor]

All the weight on the front leg, throw against the leg standing firmly on the ground. You don't want to push up too soon.

[@markus_lfc]

@@dgspindoctor Thanks!

[@gabriellopez620]

What do you think of the term passive rotation to describe this concept? I just had an AHA moment!

[@dgspindoctor]

Suits me!

[@jmvalle91]

I’ve been pulling for so long I’m still trying to make it a habit to swing arm in to curl and whip out. What drill could I do to make it where I tuck elbow in and whip out everytime without thinking about it? I tend to keep wanting to pull the disc at times making my shots inconsistent

[@dgspindoctor]

Look up Dan Beto 2.0. I think it's the best drill.

[@jaxsonwolfert8789]

Do you think about grip strength or trying to get tension out of your arm at all when throwing?

[@dgspindoctor]

Only to hold on to the disc enough so that it doesn't slip out.

[@jaxsonwolfert8789]

Awesome. Thank you! Love the videos

[@da324]

I don't notice your wrist curling in towards your bicep on your clips even though you described it as part of your process. I think the lack of spin is what's robbing me of some distance. When I try to artificially curl my wrist in, it seems I don't get any improved distance. Any suggestions? Thanks!

[@dgspindoctor]

This is what I try to say in the video. That if I didn't try to do that, the disc would launch even earlier. The pocket is pretty good, but not perfect.

[@cnking27]

You may have already done this, but check out the video from last week about gripping with the back of the hand more than the pointer finger. It instantly allowed me to move my wrist more freely and get more spin and consistent releases. I think the freer movement is letting me curl my wrist a little without thinking about it now.

[@da324]

@@dgspindoctor Should I consciously be trying to curl the wrist in to get the spin required for longer throws? Thanks!

[@dgspindoctor]

Try it. I won't guarantee anything, but then you know. That's what I do, I try EVERYTHING people suggest, and then experiment some more, take notes. That's how we learn.

[@sarinhighwind]

Gotta let the brace drive the swing

[@dgspindoctor]

Absolutely!

[@johnquick8316]

How important is it to rotate on the heel? My foot spins out but it’s more flat footed rather than on the heel.

[@dgspindoctor]

Not at all important, I would say. It functions merely as injury prevention, to my knowledge.

[@muchograndeyolatengo]

I really enjoy these videos but as a beginner I'm worried that they might be more relevant to intermediate players. I practice my throws in slow motion at home and whenever I hear "don't worry about x, y and z" my body starts to do weird things and all of a sudden I have no idea what I'm doing. I wonder if the reason why you only need to focus on the feet an your arm is because you've already perfected everything else? Isn't there something to practicing something mechanicaly and forcefully and then once you get a feel for it you can start to relax and let go?

[@dgspindoctor]

Thank you! Good point, very relevant. The problem with videos in general is, that they touch very broad problems with one-size-fits-all solutions. I believe each of us begins with different sets of preconceptions about the game, but slowly approach the same problems. I'm there at this intersection, trying to steer people to the righy path, but you're correct in saying, that I might not be the best one for beginners, on video. Naturally I have taught beginners face to face, but it's a different scenario altogether. That being said, all my tips are relevant regardless of skill level, but naturally they take more time and focus if you're new to the game. Best of luck!

[@muchograndeyolatengo]

@@dgspindoctor Thank you for taking your time to respond. I’ve seen a lot of your other videos between now and then and really appreciate your teaching style. You do go into more details about different parts of the throw and how your body should behave. I especially like when you talk about how your body should feel as it gives some concrete feedback as to if you are doing it right. I guess as an analytical person I’m naturally drawn to very procedural and explicit directions and don’t tend to trust my body to do the right things. And I’ve noticed there’s two different kind of online schools. The “force your body” school and the “trust your body” school and my intuition tells me that the latter one is mostly the correct one. But it also seems like with that one you are more reliant on coaching as it’s more difficult to really take notice of your body when it just naturally does its thing. Anyway sorry for the rant. Keep on rocking!

[@dgspindoctor]

Thanks for the comment. I feel you're right about everything here.

[@mattrandall7836]

It should feel as natural as possible. Let your body do the work.

[@dgspindoctor]

Yup! If you get exhausted and worn throwing discs, something is definitely off.

[@ZacAndoe]

Rotation = slow Arm = fast

[@dgspindoctor]

Nailed it!

[@tanelisirkela7951]

In distance shots, i'll say one more keypoint. Well u said it too, but the head. It's crucial to keep it still and not looking to the target too soon. Awesome video! Great to have u back, shortly or not, but still 🫡

[@dgspindoctor]

Surprisingly important factor!