Diablo 4 Vessel of Hatred Necromancer Concerns

[@Chafasoo]

We have to be united in this, Necro needs a rework

[@maj4530]

am with you.

[@lord461]

Big time

[@Chafasoo]

Sorc players make noise and u see!

[@StaticOrgy]

So is druid and sorc an barb

[@apollosungod6673]

Place the minions individually on the skill tree 😁 that'd be a good start.

[@MacroBioBoi]

Glad to see the focused version of the document and the conversations we had.

[@zeerox8637]

As a necro player as main, I can really feel this, we don't have much options, and doing a raw minion build is out of the question. Hope blizzard do something about this soon! Having the best minion gear possible, and still have to stuggle, while other classes with bad gear, have so much easier.

[@CJ-wc5lb]

Struggling at what lvl tier?

[@nycplayboy78]

ALL OF THIS!!! As a pure minion Necro I feel seen and heard....Like all of the best end game Necro builds revolve around NOT HAVING MINIONS like bish the necro is a pet class and well nevermind I suppose...

[@nokkprime]

I wish they would just make corpse explosion and tendrils automatic. Passives. Use those spaces for other new abilities.

[@barrymacdonald3439]

Yeah like rogues get umbrous why cant necro get an aspects that auto triggers a skill aswell

[@savagereign]

They could easily do this with a third ring slot. They have rings to do it already, this and more would be possible.

[@MrRdsmasterful]

@@barrymacdonald3439black river and sac ring. They also have any aspect that auto cast curses

[@barrymacdonald3439]

@@MrRdsmasterful nah I ment not having to waste the auto skill on an offensive slot having pants would be nice

[@SaeretheArchmage]

I am a Necro only player since Diablo 2 till diablo 4 mid season 5. I am very sad to say that but d4 necro is a dead class. It MUST be reworked entirely. I don’t mean changing multipliers or damage buffs, skills/sub builds (minion-shadow-blood) do not work in harmony with each other, shadow/minion key passives are literally useless (in this season I did not put skill points in them and believe me it’s ridiculous). Moreover we have no control Over minions regarding commanding/target priortization so most of us sense AFK while playing them. Shadow/Blood necro’s are basically sorceress subclasses but did not have any advantage of sorceress. While necro have to use aspect slots to gain interskill interactions every other class use their own skill tree or class specializations. Whoever works in necro class designer team clearly no idea about class spesific dynamics or interskill/build harmonization. Every other class gain/reach massive damage Numbers, screen wide damages etc. by using these kind of interactions which makes sense because in the core of diablo lies finding out this mechanics but necro skills too buggy and Badly designed to achieve this interactions. I did not want an aspect to get me x340 multiplier, no instead of this simple/dumb approach give us something like reapers can cast sever in every 6 sec OR shadow mages can cast blight OR when BCE occur there is a 30% chance for blight Pool etc.

[@aguile]

My problem with Necro is that they are just always missing something. Every time I try build one I am missing a Skill, an Aspect, a passive to make everything connect. (Except for the 2 button blood surge of course) On class fantasy. We reached again a point where the best builds are minionless, which in my point of view goes against the class fantasy. Necromancers is well know for raising corpses, spirits and making minions to fight alongside you, but by doing that you'll sacrifice the passives, a few skill points and probably a few aspects, since if you don't heavily invest on them, they do nothing that can complete with the Sacrifice passives. Also the reliance on corpse-triggers while those corpse skills aren't just good at all. Multiple Passives/Paragon/Aspects relies on you constantly using corpses but the corpse skills themselves. They aren't good but you need them to get the boosts. They should incorporate Sacrilegious Soul mechanics on the base Necro as it feels so much better to play with it, even if it's not optimal. Also my personal gripe with Bone Spear: It's totally unsynergistic. You need the usual + damage buffs while and also keep your essence high. NO OTHER CLASS FORCES YOU TO NOT USE YOUR SKILLS. Also, the Skeleton mages are on a bizarre position where they kill themselves as you invest in better equipment. You have to invest in Boned in Essence (a bad passive) to try to counter it, but as you start getting attack speed, they start outdamaging themselves in a way your healing can't keep up. If they die, the 6-attack acounter resets which massively destroys your DPS. Again no other class penalises your for getting better equipment like that bs mechanic does, I am literally unable to use my Starless Skies on my necro because if I do, the minions which weren't dying before, just start killing themselves every 2-3 salvos. On Survivability. On a Minion based necro, it's nonexistant if you want to have fun. You just have not enough skill slots to slot your only "get out of jail" skill, Bloodmist or have enough aspects to get Bone Storm + Sheilded storm which are pretty much mandatory on higher levels. Necro has very few ways to stack defenses with it's own passives, needing to rely on it's very few aspects and skill slots to specific skills if you want to do so. Sorcerers for example can reach a much higher defense stacking with just passives whithout sacrificing their few skills or aspect slots.

[@TheRockemsockm]

2 Button blood surge is missing the rest of the buttons, and useful single target damage / rotation. It has the same issues it had in D3 while being more boring because Siphon blood combo is gone. Bone armor is completely missing as well.

[@Ceraphis2626]

I'm so glad I wasn't the only person feeling this. I made a necro last season excited for minions and got super bored that I ended up playing Sorc and Barb. This season I made a necro as my third and tried bone spirit and while the damage is amazing its a walking glass jaw I can't survive. All and all I've been so bored with necromancer, stuck with the skills like you mentioned; Blood Mist (our only CC break skill), Decrepify (The only good curse), Corpse Tendrils (The best utility and really only utility skill we have and its usually required with grasping veins passive to aid in 100% Crit that is needed for most builds), Then stuck having minions on your action bar and that offer no real utility (Yes Golem can be a CC Break which is nice but still is not enough and has a high cooldown). All and all I couldn't agree more with the video. Necromancer is lacking and needs help.

[@Digbigbombig]

I dropped necro for rogue since last season and it made me realize the issues necro has even more than before. Even though there are passives you take in nearly every build like frigid finesse and unstable elixirs now, they are universal and there is enough customization in playstyles in imbuement and options for mobility skills and ultimates. Most of the key passives are really good and can be build around while necro essentially boils down to pick all the perks with the same color as your core skill. I hope they completely rework the skill tree come vessel of hatred because necro is in dire straits right now.

[@NtiGame]

The most powerful aspect of bone build is Aspect of Serration. It has been nerf since season 2. Overpower has been nerfed too. Corpse explosion's lucky hit reduced from 40 to 20. Now Minion and Blight aspect got nerfed as well. What else we have left?

[@barrymacdonald3439]

Watch blood surge get nerfed aswell

[@ExcessumGaming]

Finally someone talks about it! Good job! I tried all classes this season to 100 with all the top builds and state of necro is ehhh... pretty bad. In endgame anyway. Esp hordes.

[@nerthy4373]

Great video. It's true! Lack of mobility/ultility used to have a trade off... Take launch bone spear. The trade off was massive damage. Now it's just...no trade at all. Sure, bone spirit is great damage..but on a class with minimum CC, low mobility, low defenses and add in a seasonal game mode all about the aforementioned... It's a nightmare. I think it's safe to assume they are gonna overload Spirit Born to get people playing. I would imagine class reworks are not on the agenda; sadly:(

[@bjacobs4347]

skeleton and skeletal mage should be core skills

[@MLevyTech]

Necromancer needs some serious changes on all fronts. Hopefully they will listen to this well organized doc. Ty all for taking the time to discuss and put this all together.

[@Trapinnewyork44]

I want a Demon class. I mean they have a demon class coming for companion so that could an indications of a played demon class

[@antgonzo864]

I was talking about how the devs expanding the skill tree into a sub-tree, some specialization skill mechanic that allows us to change things up - similar to last epoch's skill diversity. People need to expand their class personality. Thanks for your vids - keep up the good work mang!

[@HopelessHero4050]

I feel as long as minions aren't in the skill tree and sacrificing them gives you multiplicative scalers, not having minions will always be stronger. The book of the dead needs to be reworked into something else and minions need to be skills that you can raise with gear. This would help with utility options for other builds as well if done right. Also, necro has far too many things that just don't synergize with anything else. We could trade out cold mages for blood mages that synergize with overpower. Shadow mages and the key passive should be reworked for dot synergy. There should be a shadow golem. I think we need more things to synergize with thorns. Iron golem should have an active ability to deal thorns damage around it or something and iron maiden should synergize with thorns. Army of the dead is currently a weird corpse explosion hybrid ult that really only synergizes with minions if you also take the aspect for it. It should double your active minions or double their damage without an aspect. Minions should respawn with you after you die and the passives attached to aotd should be changed to give the same love that bone storm passives have. Skeletal priest should be reworked to direct your minions onto a target and do more damage to that target or something or made into a skill in the tree and have each minion type have their own active abilities you can cast after they are all summoned.

[@Private-Aye]

Preach. I agree 100%. Forever the devs said minions are not skills, and it infuriated me because they take up 2 skill skill slots, yet they are not skills? Like you, I wish necro skills, stats, aspects, and paragons would synergize in an way with clear damage tags.

[@1000dreams]

Not having a proper unstoppable options is really a pain in the ass.. They might say the lack of skill is due to the original design of Necromancers walking around with Skeletal and Golem minions, counting as 2 "skills" but then they give us minions that even after the rework are still not where they should be. Raise Skeleton -needs- the target functionality the Golem has, making them go to the place where you point the ability to, easy fix. Running around with a minion build and dying is also much more punishing than it is for every other class and this is due their shitty corpse system. IMO minion skills should not be tied to them, or being restricted by them. I don't want to hear their RP/Lore bullshit, because I don't even know where to begin pointing out things that don't make sense going by that.. But corpses despawning and bugging so they look like they are there but aren't really are super annoying. Just make them optional, only show up when you select Corpse Explosion or be the alternative for having Skeletal Minions. Make Corpse Tendrils just Shadow Tendrils and burst out of an enemy target, etc. Just raise skeletons from the ground or give us a better way to reacquire them, Supreme Army of the Dead is not good enough for that. Minions scale poorly by design, aren't properly affected by +skill points, which is an easy fix too. Remove the masteries and make them actual skill nodes on the board, easy fix. Occult Domination also has to go. Tons of paragon systems are also just broken like the minion glyphs, this is just not looked at, spend some money and put some devs on it to fix it so it's in line with the reworks they done several patches ago. Same story with things like Deathspeaker's Pendant, Bloodless Scream, even with the new Mortacrux item which is completely untested and just awful. Also Bone and Cold skeletons are absolute dog ass and practically unusable, for the Golems it's slightly less bad but the Iron and Bone golems are never a good pick compared to Blood. Also all the other classes have some sort of mechanic that allows them to scale their damage through offensive stats like crit damage, vuln, crowd control, etc. and Necro's don't >> problem. Necro's always relied on these massive multipliers from aspects to scale their damage, x240% from blighted, x150% from this, x80% from that, etc. This makes some things mandatory, just put the scaling somewhere else and let's get some more build diversity without severely gimping your character. Get some consistency back into the class design, get rid of these scarce Cold themed things that don't work with anything, just make the themes Shadow, Blood and Bone and then have either Minions or Sacrifices / Corpses as class mechanic. You mentioned the Key passives already but those are also huge. Rathma's vigor works inherently with Blood Lance and if you put some other things into your build it works with Blood Surge too but IMO it shouldn't require that just to make it work. I'd say just rework these to become ways to scale your damage like the other classes. This whole bit they had about giving the Necro "ALL THE MOBILITY" paraphrased from their live stream when they were showing Greavers of the Empty Tomb with the new Creeping Mist aspect.. Like what in the fuck is that, the desecrated ground does not stack with itself so there is no reason to move around with it, if it's intended for mobility then the desegrated ground is useless, it's on the Sever Unique so they incentivize evading around instead of actually casting Sever, the Sever Blink is extremely clunky and slow to use and doesn't give Unstoppable. Desecrated ground as a theme is completely unusable, Tidal Aspect with Blood Wave and Ultimate Shadow doesn't work, etc. There's things like Aspect of the Empowering Reaper and Plunging Darkness that are not usable despite actually having some potential. Aspect of Explosive Mist is another example of something they just didn't change after they "reworked" immunities. The class in it's entirety is just a mess and needs a massive cleanup and fix up, basically a rework. Sorry for the wall of text but I think these things are important to note. As a suggestion for a closer, I would love to see Blood Mist be reworked to a teleport (with Unstoppable), D3 Necro had Blood Rush which IMO is much preferred to Blood Mist as it is now. The better option considering we are lacking skills is just to add Blood Rush but I'd be fine with this too.

[@1000dreams]

Seems like you mentioned some of the things I said in the document too which I could have left out, sorry for missing that but I'll just keep the comment as it is for clarity!

[@etrosknight2254]

Great points in this video, I think it would be so cool if we could do more with adding or changing the tags on skills to enable different ways of scaling. Like imagine if we had a corpse explosion that we could somehow add the Bone tag to make a bonesplosion that scales with bone passives. Aspect of Ultimate Shadow and Blighted Corpse Explosion are I think the only examples of this and are extremely cool, would love more of this. And yeah desecrated ground really needs a look, the layers need to overlap at a bare minimum to be remotely playable

[@sethwood1676]

This explains why I found necro boring since season 1. Everything feels same. Its aesthetically my favorite class and I wish it got more love.

[@AnotherComputer]

For all the awesome setting that Diablo 4 has, it has some of the worst fantasies for some of its classes. I like Necro and Barb, so basically I'm fucked. Most of the builds for Necro play very similar as you said, but that's not a Necro-only problem. Looking at Barbs, most of their high end builds revolve around spamming one ability (Whirlwind, Rend, Bash) while also spamming 3 buffs just so you can survive long enough and if you're lucky, your build may have some added flair in the form of Call of the Ancients. I used to run a Walking Arsenal build but that seems to have sunk to the bottom. HoTA and Deathblow might as well not exist. Now, this isn't new. If you look at D3 even, most of the abilities are the same for the classes that carried over. What changed? There's more quality aRPG options now in the market. Looking at Last Epoch for example which I consider to be the best overall (I know PoE exists), look at the Primalist class. A mix of Barbarian and Druid, such a cool idea, you have Leap, Avalanche, Upheaval and Warcry all in the same class and 3 forms to choose from. Same with Necros, you can be a Necromancer that spawns zombies which run to the enemies, puke poison on them, then explode, and when they do they spawn a skeleton to fight for you along with several worms that each count as a minion, which is the coolest thing. Or you can consume all your minions to summon a Wraithlord. Or you can open a cthonic fissure, a hellish rift from another dimension which contains souls of the damned. Why couldn't they give D4 Necro some of the Witch Doctor stuff from D3? Zombies, decay, etc.

[@TheProfessorG1]

I agree, we need more options for curses, skill tags need a reword and I miss corpse explosion as a main damage tool.

[@Redfizh]

Minion and other skills has to work together more. Minion necromancer is basicly necromancer with all the passives and few points on support skills. More commanding and behavior. Skeletons could do more formations as they are just background mess most of the time. Maximum minions has to be one way to build, there is not enough benefit to have it. Player needs to feel that they have an Army.

[@andredornelles8014]

You’re absolutely right. I gave up lvling different necro builds because in essence I was using the same skills

[@hunterstrong3318]

Necromancer having fewer skills to build around, less mixable passives to make say bone and blood work together other than slappin darkness tag on stuff, and some of the interesting uniques like mortacrux and deathspeakers that would allow unique new builds not being cranked up to make them stand next to a normal necro build, kinda sucks. Love necro, but getting tired of waiting on more options of build concepts, especially when certain skills stand out as take it or know ur playing handicapped. Id love to see deathspeaker work with bone prison like other aspects see it as a minion, have iron maiden strong enough you wanna build into thorns necro, etc

[@nine9_abyss]

damn. here I am enjoying blood surge this season destroying everything and then I see this vid, just makes me sad. Thinking what could've been. The devs really need to get creative and give us a few more skills to match the other classes.

[@wadethecake1273]

I would love to see some more options to build into your minions. Give us a way to specialize. Maybe a Skill where you can choose between loosing 1 melee skeleton and 1 skeletal mage, but you gain 3 archer skelton. Or an option where you can get a skeleton commander buffing your minions, making them more furious for example. Maybe also give us some item like WD had back in D3 where all your minions get transformed into one big Hulkbuster Armor, for a melee smash built, the more Minions you would have aktive the more variety skills you unlock, making him a different character in some way. I got a ton of Ideas. Get us some skeleton kreatures, like dogs that hunt down enemys then grapple them and pull them to our feet. I could get on for hours xD

[@nickrobinson5715]

Iron maiden, by namesake, should synergize with blood builds and would be a good idea to do some for of life steal instead. There should be at least 2 shadow key passives, one for straight DoT and one to synergize with cold. Also, DESECRATED GROUND NEEDS TO FUCKING STACK

[@hunterstrong3318]

Yessss this right here preach this. Why is everything slapped with darkness tags when if it was a blood skill then it could be a cool way to A: generate blood orbs better and more consistant, B: more thematic, and C: maybe even a new overpower thorns type playstyle could exist. At the very least it would give a better home to iron maiden since blood moon breaches want a curse but decripify is the auto go to. With iron maiden being blood skill, the it would be an interesting thing to see our tanky healing build using a throns type curse and only downside being iron maiden eating up overpowers from rathmas vigor. Unless thats the point and they buff iron maiden enough we can actually make that our damage skill

[@etrosknight2254]

I agree cold synergies are really lacking. Like we have cold mages, the Coldbringer's Aspect, and Bloodless Scream, but this concept is not supported to the point where it's an actual build. And yeah, imagine Sorc has 2 fire key passives, one for DoT and one for crit, but Necro just has one for shadow that is garbage for any build. Like great it scales with damage over time, guess what Blizzard I would still have to stack CRIT CHANCE on my damage over time build, no thank you

[@nickrobinson5715]

@@etrosknight2254 yeah, when I first saw the chill/frozen passives I was very confused when there were no skills that aided in that. Sorc has element mixing built into its skill tree, druid has ways to shapeshift synergy in its kit, barb with bleeding (although aspects add fire for some reason with no synergy with its skill tree) rogue has just about everything. It makes 0 sense, you could argue cold mages but then you'd have to build into minions more than you do shadow DoT. Also the blighted and wither nerf was totally unjustified, they were finally competitive with other classes and not necessarily above them.

[@HopelessHero4050]

I wish there was just more interaction with thorns in general. Iron maiden should be a skill that works with thorns specifically, like the damage they take is increased by thorns, or it increases the thorns damage they take, or both. I really think they need to add minions to the skill tree and rework the book of the dead to something else. I would love for iron golem to have an ability to actively cause thorns damage around it. That would be so f'ing awesome.

[@nickrobinson5715]

@@HopelessHero4050 YES minions in the skill tree. Book of the dead could work more like druid boons I think for the minions, like the current ones be the middle part of the path be the current most used ones (I.e reapers with creating corpses). Iron maiden would be cool if thorns damage gave barrier

[@michaeljohnston73]

it would nice if the minions actually all attacked something too. Like exactly what I'm targeting and attacking instead of just standing there doing nothing. If a game has a Necro class, I always want to play that class. I'm enjoying Sorcerer this season though. Give Necro that feeling of enjoyment.

[@tamasbottyan9029]

This is spot on! I could not agree more. I play necro fanatically since D2. In this season it sucked so much I gave the wizard a whirl. then I looked at the druid. Both seem to be offering a lot more options for diverse builds than the necro.

[@s7nexample198]

I was sad to see them nerf shadow damage builds with the node whither. It really gave a unique build of DOT over raw damage, was so fun watching enemies and bosses melt back in season 4 but now in 5 it is a struggle😢. Worried for season 6 necro.

[@Flower_rbx_1]

Well, barbs play shouts and sorts play same 3 defensive skills. I would say 2 big problems: - lack of non specific damage modifiers (you are locked into choices based on passives types available) - same goes for key passives, there is only 1 use for each of them. And it's not boring, it's just does not allow for some unexpected broken things to happen. So no broken build = no popularity

[@apollosungod6673]

Necromancers dont have enough defensive utilities or ways to direct their minions actions such that they're efficient or effective and survive in the process. Plus outside of the skelly and golem mastery passives and the single book of the dead passive, you dont get much direct strengthening of your minions through skill points before using aspects... Which really sucks.

[@BurgrGrvyard]

Please forward this to Blizzard…This is my Main and only class I play. It needs more re works and I hope the expansion and future updates fix this skill tree and terrible passives. Give us poison again.. poison dagger, poison nova especially etc. We definitely need more options. Love your content and I’m glad you love nerding out on necromancers and I hope all your hard work will help improve our class.

[@asum7786]

Pretty much nailed it. If things don't change drastically, I'll have to see if I can move on to another class longterm (despite adoring the Necro theme), or if I'll move on entirely game wise. I'm so tired of these same, clunky, slow unfun skills and mechanics every single season. Sorc was really fun this season for me, much more so than any Necro build over the last year has been - but I'd much rather just have fun Necro skills and builds. I'm going to try Spiritborne with the expac next, but while it looks fun, visually and thematically it's not really for me either. I was really hoping for a Knight of sorts (be it Paladin, Crusader, w/e), but oh well, I'll see - I hope Necro get's more than those leaks though, bc.. damn.

[@J3ianca]

There's a lot of problems with Necro-pure-minion build. I just want to see how DEVS gonna clear very end game contents with it. I just play Sorcerer Conjuring-FrozenOrb instead because it give a vibe of summoner. Clear horde8 pit120+ with no problems. Necro-minion really need a big rework. Pure-minion is just trash.

[@CookaSoupNieceEH]

necro is in beta, wtf

[@MrLove-666]

I'm almost done with masterworking 8/12 to tackle Hordes Tier 6 and then Masterwork to 12/12. Blood Surge with Mini-Novas, I use so far Azurewrath instead of Doombringer until I get it, and it's pretty fun and medium-easy.

[@flowqi212]

Tbh what you describe currently applies to most classes, not only the Necro. You always end up taking the same passives and 3-4 active skills, because it's just way better than the rest. Rogue seems like the most healthy class to me right now and Spiritborn happens to be designed by the same guy ^^

[@Russuscitate]

Cosuming corpses just to proc Flesh Eater is the reason im only playing Blood Surge this season. Flesh Eater imo needs reworked. I dont want to feel I need to run that board just to pop corpses for a dmg multiplier. Takes away from spamming my dmg skills or utility skills for a quick 5 second buff. Thats why Blood Surge works so well this season with the Cruors Embrace.

[@1000dreams]

Recently they introduced/changed another x50%to upkeep with blood orbs lol. Flesh Eater needs at least to work the same way. Much better though is making them work the same way as other classes' boards..

[@tiawen1945]

If blood surge would pull in blood orbs blood begget blood would be way better

[@1000dreams]

@@tiawen1945 that would be insane, I love it

[@henrynguyen4315]

Every class pretty much has that problem. Sorcs have that same issue, every sorc runs teleport, ice blades, ice armour etc and the same enchantments being firebolt and ice blades.

[@k1w1fru1t9]

I'm not bored of my minion-mancer but I have to say trying to do Hordes on minion-mancer is just plain horrible. They stuffed shadowblight and gave us almost nothing to make up for the loss of power. The uniques are just bleh and mendeln's + to skele & golem mastery are not even working. They need to fix the issues with the class and give us some cool uniques that change minions and other cool stuff for non minion builds. Totally agree with your comments about the lack of skills & Key passives. I will always play minions personally but this season it was much easier to do hordes on a Sorc than on a minion-mancer.

[@CsabaAdam-er6kt]

Great Video! It's True, all of it! Specifically the skill tree problem! Please send this to Blizzard also!

[@israellopez9766]

It needs a complete rework

[@zentag770]

got sent here by MacroBioBoi, love the coverage on this topic.

[@Flower_rbx_1]

Good stress test for me was now. I tried to do a andariels blood surge build. Although I knew it won't be strong, but it was interesting. Yet after iterating a bit just had to aknowldge that there is no way I can bring damage to meaningful numbers. No aspect which work, no key passive which gives atleast something. No flexibility for any creativity. Sad.

[@barnysgaming]

So Im a small time KZbinr and have been enjoying Necro this season, I started with Necro Preseason 1 and have played a different class as a main each season. Necro is still one of my fave classes , Druid last season sucked and I'm not a fan of Rogue.

[@DIS-SID]

My main is necro every season. I love that class but blizzard hate it. The most problem is with my def, the mage can stand in T8 with no problems and i must avoid everything in t7 (and i can run pit 130) with my summon build. But hey, we have 15% more armor for 3 points.. to get the 20k amror.

[@israellopez9766]

The corruption thing is severely hindering necro . curses and corps explosion are corrupted?

[@PhongTran-xt9wq]

This is my first time playing blood surge, but I wish I could cast it while moving - has this been a long time ask?

[@d4mephisto]

You can cast while moving using wasd keyboard movement, but it requires some annoying tech and I don't recommend it as it's kind of a really frustrating and lame way to play

[@BoKruse]

The lack of skills, lack of ability to scale skills and damages, as well as create synergies (such as the rogues Explosive Verve that makes grenades count as trap damage), and the lack of the costumization options (such as the barbs many aspect slots - which is NOT sovled by giving us a bit more damage) really is the core of the issues with the necromancer. In addition, I could mention: 1. Lack of lucky hit on our minions. 2. Lack of the ability to control your minions (added to a pretty retarded minion AI).

[@J3ianca]

"Lack of ability to scale skills and damages, as well as create synergies" - On point, couldn't agree more.

[@markhurley3714]

Necro got nerfed into the dirt and has stayed there since season 0

[@finite9897]

Hopefully blizzard will see the feedback you have and make changes, simply having minions doesn't mean the necro needs less abilities, the sorc and druid have more abilities and they have minion type abilities as well. Especially when minion AI is only slightly better than it used to be, and I still wouldn't say it reaches a level of being good, its meh at best.

[@jasonc379]

Man I hope the Devs see this video. Also the fact that necro doesn't have any kind of poison skills/ imbuement/scaling, baffles me a bit.

[@etrosknight2254]

We have shadow, which is our DoT option and I think would be functionally identical to poison. It's just that they've systematically destroyed the archetype basically every season since Season 2 when it was our best AoZ option, but was still far behind the best classes

[@jasonc379]

@@etrosknight2254 I hear ya, but the point of the video is the lack of options build diversity for necro. Imo, necro having multiple DOT effects feels fitting for the class. There would also be an opportunity to expand the mechanics for different DOT effects. Like for poison DOT, the damage ticks could scale up the longer the target is affected by poison. There are definitely creative ways to have similar damage options function in ways that make them different from the other and also have the potential to synergize with eachother.

[@TheRockemsockm]

Necro feels like half the class it was in D3, like it was rushed out the door to make launch. The class needs a massive overhaul. 1. It is hamstrung by everything tying to Darkness/Blood/Bone more than other classes. We have to pray the devs design a bad aspect to swap 1 or 2 skills like Ultimate Shadow. 2. It only has 2 ways to interact with corpses, far less than D3. 3. The tempering's are trash, and just as restrictive as the passives. 4. Survivability is somehow the worst in game, while Rogue gets Dark shroud and %damage per dark shroud temper??? Where the fuck is bone armor? 5. The aspects are absolute trash. Other classes would get utility + huge damage boost. Necro gets utility only or a damage boost for extremely niche purpose. Like Darkness skills only, which it's own passive doesn't count as. 6. Skills are poorly designed, and this is compounded by every spec requiring more hoops to jump through like Blood Orbs. Blood lance is just a shitty, small Bone spear. Hemorrhage doesn't have an animation and is just 10x worse and less cool than Siphon Blood was. Blood nova has the same issues it had in D3. We shouldn't have to play setup, corpse tendril, every single spec and playstyle when hordes exist. 7. Half the gear is tied to pets. I have zero desire to use pets so I can ignore half the gear while pets receive benefits from everything.

[@etrosknight2254]

Yeah it is kind of sad to think Necro in D3 had much more complexity and cool options. Not a knock on D3 I loved it, but this was supposed to be more complex I thought not less. In D3 we had Simulacrums casting our Bone Spears alongside us which did insane damage, in this game we have flaccid mages that do a bone spear every 6 attacks, and by the way will just kill themselves before they even get to that many. And yeah blood orbs are god awful, I don't want to walk around stepping on stupid pickups to get a buff, it's so clunky. Rogue gets an aspect that automatically gives them Dark Shrouds for free, but they took away our ability to have Sacrilegious ring proc Grasping Veins?

[@Johnnybsknees]

"enemies affected by shadowblight take 20% increased shadow damage and deal 10% less damage" Something that simple would get that passive in line better. It's insane how worthless it is. Playing rogue and choosing between those passives like momentum makes me feel insane about what necro has. It feels like they designed around the idea that minions are like an expansion of the skill tree and therefore necro is more subdued. That doesn't work when it's better to just sacrifice minions. I will say to be fair at least the sac bonuses Book of the dead are somewhat like an expansion of the skill tree but it's not nearly enough to compensate.

[@spenserroxsox]

Its my first season even creating something other than necro. Im on my druid now and having a blast where on my necro its like "ok blood surge spam from level 1-100"

[@Canadaunited]

my 5500% overpower, 100% crit chance, blood surge and infinite blood tsunami is hella fun this season

[@rodrigoalmeida3743]

The best builds for necros dont have minions. Makes zero sense for me. A Necromancer that dont raise any corpse

[@etrosknight2254]

We are definitely missing a "Raise" type ability where we actually have reanimated monsters as our minions. Imagine the interesting strategic decisions on picking which are the best monster types to have as minions depending on what abilities they have, definitely an area where D4 is too simple relative to D2 or POE

[@user_z01]

I'm inclined to agree as someone who identifies psychologically as a necro main and once again finds myself not playing a necro.

[@LastAphelion]

Making eating a corpses a generic thing I have to do on every single build for buffs makes me not want to play necro honestly, Im all for complexity but when the finger piano rotations apply to every build possible and its not just one build I could ignore bc its too involved for me and you miss out on big damage pushing when you dont want to do all these different multipliers just to keep up barely with a sorc that can hold down LS while drinking a beverage in the other hand... yeah, turned me off from playing more necro

[@MTGMr.Wizard]

Why do I always seem to pick bad characters and I feel like I waste all this time on Necro maybe I should’ve rolled that Druid storm

[@sethwood1676]

you still a whole month. Test out other builds on classes. Come back to necro. I take breaks from the other classes and it keeps my interest in them for the most part.

[@aguile]

I did this, started as a Necro, went to Druid, never came back

[@DarkKelo]

They should learn from last epoch necro you vet normal minion build , more golems , you can unite all minions and get 1 big minion or get wraithlord that spawns minions himself true necromancer with many minions builds

[@devinthompson8277]

I run a Darkness/Shadow build for Blood Wave and Sever with just the Golem, kinda felt overpowered most of my first Necromancer run but definitely not churning out as much Damage as some of the Druid/Barb/Sorcerer classes my friends play. -ZawNabis

[@devinthompson8277]

I got Blood Wave to be a Darkness skill through an item Imprint.

[@devinthompson8277]

I would honestly be happier with something that increases my essence production or at least a life sap. Really missing how many skills you could use(the second hotbar) in Diablo 2.

[@JPEaglesandKatz]

Played necro in 3 leagues.. Skipped a few leagues.. I can't see myself ever going back to necro unless they erase the class and rebuild it from the ground up.... I'm so done with this.. The underwhelming minions for most of the games'' lifespan.. the constant same skills, boring... not on par with any other class as far as performance.

[@SithLordBishop]

barbs play shouts, sorc plays TP and shields, druid plays companions, rogue is probably the best off

[@SithLordBishop]

that said your points are valid

[@etrosknight2254]

I agree with you about Sorc, I don't play it but you do seem to see the same 4 skills on every build. MacroBioBoi did say though a while back that when he tried playing Sorc it did feel like he had way more choices in how he did his skill tree than on the Necro, so maybe it's more interesting in the passives you choose

[@CharlesZipp]

IMO Necro also doesnt require nearly as much skill as the other classes which contributes to the boredom. Non-minion, mash core skill. Minion, sit back and cast support stuff. I picked up rogue last season after exclusively playing necro for past seasons. I found it much more exciting mostly because of how technical the play style is vs necro. Shadowblight I think they should make it work like Rogue skills where a additive damage becomes multiplier for all corresponding damage and get rid of the shadowblight damage proc. For example Shadow Damage adds additional multiplicative damage to all forms of shadow damage enabling you to scale DOTs and/or Core Skill damage. And please dont gate this behind X instances of shadow damage... just give it to us like the other classes.

[@PerGamingGames]

Budget sorc with minions*

[@fakenickib6245]

Im actually bouta play zoo druid in S6 cause minions are neglected

[@AlpacadaSerra]

Last season i chose druid and it was the worst class. Now i chose necromancer and its the worst class? What the hell

[@DyVyNyTyLives]

We went down I popularity only cause Sorc is popular and strong now.

[@tiawen1945]

We need simulacrum back.

[@hitmee398]

I hope poison nova returns

[@scdogg444]

Mobility is the biggest issue. It's soooo damn slow.

[@andreychetvertakov4574]

Why even get more skills if Blizzard cannot make more than 1 or 2 viable builds?! D4 was not tested and balanced during launch. Since then devs were playing catch up game, but many backlog issues never get addressed. Don't think d4 dev team has enough capacity to make d4 balanced and with more than 1-2 builds per class. Look at season 5 -70% of players are lightning sorc... facepalm.

[@jonathanmann9906]

They could just add a page to the book of the dead

[@israellopez9766]

Minions don't work tags are not benefited by anything in game .

[@tylicius4329]

S5 is the first season ive skipped, same stuff different season

[@ANDELE3025]

D4 Necro plain has too much win more/lore more, dead and parasitic design. Reap generates 1 corpse per 4s compared to 1 per 1s, its "enchanced" upgrade does absolutely nothing until the fight is over instead of draining 1% attack speed per hit and even the DRs temper is insulting (2s per hit and then the temper is 40~60%, instead of either if it at least base lasted 4s with a flat +1s temper pick that scaled to 7s total at 12/12 or 10s with all 3 hits on it OR being a baseline 5% DR while equipped and then 1% DR steal for 2s at which point it should still at least be +0.5s on the temper. Sever could be the perfect mobility skill if baseline it dashed you and then as one of the upgrade choices it either removed the back-dash normal skele does/you would do if it were mobility to use dodge charges above 1 to be cast for free, trigger evade effects and apply vuln vs send out the skeleton that then forces minion to attack the area and got summon tag to benefit from minion effects. Even better its sweep portion could baseline cause desecrated ground (if its kept in current non-stacking state) if shadowblight is kept to provide some synergy. Iron Maiden should plain have a "enemies count as injured" vs "minion thorns deals massive damage" upgrade with the enchanced being made into the freecast+5% essence on curse application to uncursed+5% life on expiry (be it death or timeout). Blights "immob 30% on hit" even existing Bone Storm default applying to golem with its uptime by comparison cut in half of equivalent buffs (id make it baseline the 18%/s but also generate 1 max essence per hit with 10s duration for 45s cd on self only, upgrade becomes shielding storm aspect like for 2.5% barrier on any phyiscal hit for the duration and then move IL crit to it for 33% crit while its up, thus entirely leaning into aiding the bone skill ideas) Reapers, Drain Vit, Compound Frac, etc should work off all skills with upgrades for the specific type (so 5%/rank for 3s or 9s for darkness, 0.25%/rank fort always on lucky hit or double while healthy for blood, 10 crits gives 1%/rank crit damage to physical for 5s with bone getting extra 1%/rank for every 50 essence) For extra skills id add Bone Armor - toggle that drains essence and fixes your base speed to 75% for the 15% DR storm used to give, but also unstoppable while its on, enchanced then makes it generate 10% of physical damage taken as barrier, with option to then also become a corpse skill that consumes nearby corpses when it can instead of essence cost (still will drain essence with no corpses nearby, just eats corpses instead of there are any) and chills nearby enemies vs blood tag version with "25s cd 8s long buff" that also applies to minions and guarantees the next skill and minion attack is a overpower Terrify - the monster ground rune as darkness curse, takes on either life on hit curse or on the shadowblight aspect idea of being flat damage pop when fear/feat+stun vs non elites ends scaling off dot damage target suffered as upgrades Poison Nova (Maybe, odd man out but would be cool to have) Revive/Reanimate - curses enemy to for that monster to rise as your minion for limited time (but doesnt drop corpses), upgrade split becomes they count as skeletons and refresh on being blessed vs you can have max 1 but its permanent, counts as Golem and inherits affixes For Keystones id change them to: Ossified - just doesnt require the base 50 essence. Rathmas - CD also cut by 2s on potion use, potion drops while at max shatter into 1-3 blood orbs Kalans - Attack speed moved to IP while not healthy due to the crit move then split into 2: "Skeletons count as and can be used as corpses (killing them in the process of doing so) and become a Volatile Skeleton (alive up to 3s, run to enemy and Corpse Explode self) on death from damage that leaves a corpse" and "Your Golems copy-cast any core and ultimate skill you cast at 1/3rd effectiveness (+1/3rd per sacrificed skeleton type from book)" Shadowblight - replaced for shademist (bugged) like self passive, lets call it "Malthael's Gravechill (or Shadmist or Cloudkill, etc)", disables overpower chance (can still guarantee) and crit damage (deals normal) for a Shadow DoT and Cold direct damage aura with 100% lucky hit that scales damage off the other type (dot from other skills fuels its direct, its direct fuels other dot) with extra effect for each minion type sacrificed (skirms reduce your current hp to never be healthy but convert heal into damage, defender sac delay 50% damage over 5s, reapers let you count as 10 corpses, shadow mages Maybe new "Trag'Oul's Rotten Ichor" - Become "vampire", cast all skills from hp, poison dot enemies on hit with blood skills, lifesteal with corpse, bone and summons. Also personal annoyance for intuitive and wording clarity: All "You and your minions" vs "you (and your minions because its base stat)" vs "You (and its worded like a base stat ala shadow damage increase but its actually a debuff on the enemy so it doesnt work on them)" removed where minions plain inherit all your passive effects and the phrasing just says "you" while minion specific aspects just become "your minions".

[@corinthiansmelcer7699]

MOBILITY!!!!!

[@lumberjackgamins7966]

I just find them dull and slow and make another character every season.

[@lorzkotzros]

Thats why i Just Played necro this season till i got my Andariel, then i deleted him and Played rogue. Necro is boring and weak..

[@seanowens3153]

as a necro main.... :(

[@TheMalachiGaming]

💯

[@UniQue1992]

They need movement

[@saikikdosntexist]

#Nerfbarb

[@unknownb.6595]

Boring and broken , all thats wrong with necros.

[@stevebeschakis9775]

Make up your mind. One minute, you;re telling us Necro is a hot mess--next, you're gushing over how much you love it. wtf?