Never seen before crank no start!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

That was so cool, Dan! When you asked us "what's your next step?", my strategy on any engine where a timing issue is suspected is to use an in-cylinder pressure transducer together with an ignition event sync to verify where spark occurs vs TDC. In this case the compression waveform itself would probably show that piston and valve timing was off since 40 degrees is a significant error. But finding that shifted harmonic balancer would still require some deep thought :) Nicely done!!

[@The_Redkween]

Ivan is here!!!

[@rafflesnh]

@@The_Redkween I'm surprised he didn't just say "Eurotrash AGAIN"!! :-D

[@andresmejia7741]

Been Your follower for a while Ivan and was going to make the same comment based on what I've seen on your videos , would love to learn in dept about how to use this technique.Any suggestions ?

[@rimmersbryggeri]

Don't they say you should always change the harmonic balancer with the chain? Did you not have a simular case about a year back where the timing was off because the keyway on the crank or balancer was boogered? I had some kind of subconcious premenition of it being the balancer almost at the start of this video but not enough for my brain to articulate it.

[@Diagnosedan]

Thanks Ivan, that could certainly have been the next step but sometimes a low tech screwdriver does the job🤣🤣

[@1fnjo790]

I think when harmonic balancers are manufactured the TDC mark should be grooved painted and extended down into the inner part of the balancers, so you be able to tell if the outer part has moved over time.

[@BarryEdmunds-ki2rl]

Take out spark plug and put screwdriver in and you will get top dead without all the bullshit this guy was chatting

[@1fnjo790]

@BarryEdmunds-ki2rl That's a great idea if you don't have to take off the upper intake for #1, but go to the accessible cylinder on the opposite bank that be at TDC of it's exhaust stroke👍

[@4l5m6e1n]

wow, that's impressive. I can't imagine how you even thought about verifying if it's really TDC. That's pure talent right there.

[@samg5543]

His scope told him the timing was off based on the known good waveforms. He trusted his scope and it told him the timing was off. That's why you have to trust your data, not your gut

[@alltheusernameswastaken8936]

also the fact it wanted to start probably carried most of the weight in this decision confirming fuel and spark.

[@blockbertus]

It was the Crank/Cam correlation waveforms which told him to physically check the timing again. He was lucky to find a known good one to compare to.

[@m.b.smoshitoa8325]

@@samg5543 but what if that data was loaded by someone who just want to mislead others. Remember Dan said he only got one on library to compare. With there was no any other.

[@shekharnandkoemarsing158]

@@blockbertus I thought for sure that the crank sensor itself was the issue by sending a delayed pulse to the ECU, which I thought would upset the fuel/air intake timing

[@cherylfarrell1638]

Real genius I love listening to your logic and ending up, correct

[@gutsngorrrr]

well that was a different fault and goes to show, double checking the TDC using the old school screwdriver trick in cylinder 1 and not just relying on timeing marks, is a good idea.

[@AymenMusnic]

But in a diesel engine you'll have to remove the injectors, and God help me diesel injectors usually are so clogged haha.

[@beargillium2369]

There's a neat trick using a whistle in the spark tube 😂 if it blows the valves are closed !

[@Diagnosedan]

Thank you

[@jonmullaly7497]

Yet another variable to look out for I've never seen this issue but will remember it tks

[@marcioreis2648]

Another Diagnose Dan mystery solved with common sense and intuition. Awesome. Thank you for your videos.

[@Diagnosedan]

My pleasure

[@paul5683]

Wow, I would have thought that this guy would have known about the extra service position for the hood/bonnet. Just push the red button in on the drivers side gas strut. The hood/bonnet will go up to a almost vertical position. Much easier to work on the engine. 😊

[@patch8462]

Hi Dan, this case highlights the advantage of having started way before today's modern problem solving methods. Not knocking the features and tools mechanics use today but, sometimes back to basics is the shortest rout. Hi to the family Dan

[@Diagnosedan]

You are right 👍

[@LarryButler-kp3se]

I couldn't have helped myself. I would have to had reset the timing using the junk yard balancer and when it was running drove it back to the other shop and looked at them as if they were crazy saying, "What's wrong?? This Benz runs great!" The looks on their faces would have been PRICELESS!

[@djmech3871]

😂😂😂

[@madds6678]

Seen this a couple of times on the 271 Dan & also on the V6 & V8 112-113 engine the vibration damper wears & you can visibly see it wobbling when running even rubbing up against the timing case. The other things to watch out for is oil leaking out of the camshaft solenoids into the wiring loom & also the wrong oil filter fitted two types supercharged or turbo this can cause oil pressure problems or engine damage. As you said the timing chain is a common failure on poorly maintained engines.

[@Diagnosedan]

Thanks for the feedback 👍

[@dingdong2103]

The M113 is almost guaranteed to have crank no start through failed crankshaft position sensor. I've had it on two of my M113 equipped cars. Luckily it's cheap and easy to fix.

[@madds6678]

Yes the crank sensor of that period on both the 112 113 & even 4 cylinder 111 are known to fail usually when hot if you leave it to cool for 1/2 hour usually starts back up. This a common symptom not uncommon to all car brands.

[@jamesu]

I am suffering from the same eyesight aging. All my safety glasses have readers in them now. God bless you!

[@Diagnosedan]

🤣🤣Why do they use such small numbers🤣🤣👍

[@jamesu]

@@DiagnosedanSo we have to buy their reading glasses.

[@tommygogh4243]

When you asked: what is your next step? I was indeed thinking of a wrong installed crank pulley, however I would never think of the marks being shifted by the pulley itself! Great work Dan, again

[@Diagnosedan]

Thanks for watching

[@ulf-dieterkoepp7865]

It's really a eye opener!@@Diagnosedan

[@Stambo59]

Being an old mechanic I have seen this before, old Holden V8s (1970s) were the first place I came across it. I had a car in for tune. Customer said it had been pretty flat since they had owned it and it had been in to a couple of shops since then. I did the same as any other shop would have, new plugs, points and condenser, set timing etc and they were right, it was pretty flat when timing set to factory spec with the timing light. I went old school and hooked up a vacuum gauge and set the timing as close as I could. Went for a drive and it was like it should be. I rechecked the timing with the light and it looked like it was advanced 25 odd degrees more than it should be. So I did the same check as you just did with the screwdriver and found the culprit. Fitted a new crank pulley, (after talking to the owner) gave it back him and he was super happy. I have always kept my eyes open for this problem since then. It is not a common problem but it sure can eat up some time if you are unaware of it. We tend to forget with modern cars that ignition timing used to be set by rotating the distributor with a timing light hooked up. :-)

[@Diagnosedan]

Thanks for sharing

[@rayhindle642]

Dan isn't just v good at diagnosis but he is also excellent at how he communicates his findings across to us that even a novice like myself can follow him with ease. I've seen a few techs on KZbin and he is definately one of the better ones. Thanks Dan keep up the good work and your excellent videos. Ray H. ......U.K..

[@BarryEdmunds-ki2rl]

You are stupid mate

[@shady4422]

Dan is on another level nothing gets past him.Great stuff buddy

[@Diagnosedan]

Thank you!

[@davefinelli6555]

Brilliant

[@chopperchuck6661]

I really enjoy watching you in telling me a lot of things to look for I have a 2008 Chevy Impala crank won't start I have changed sensors and just about everything you can imagine fuel pump is turning on but it could be clogged that is my next check

[@CubbyTech]

Surprised that there's no keyway indicator visible on the metal part of the pulley. Nice find Dan! I'll bet this will help so many others with this same issue.

[@richardcranium5839]

actually if you look at 18:20 the one on the right does have an inner mark at tdc and bdc (ot ut) and the bad one on the left is off the 40 degrees

[@kiwiwifi]

Spoiler

[@Danidasanic]

@@richardcranium5839 obviously he was talking about the inner part of the pulley and he is right , they should rely on the metal (fixed) part because the rubber\outer ring will brake down eventually

[@HouseCallAutoRepair]

Remove the crank damper bolt and LOOK at the keyway.

[@Danidasanic]

@@HouseCallAutoRepair the keyway position doesnt mean that is at tdc , at least on many other vehicles

[@ciablues3886]

Impressively honest and absolutely professional methods used by Dan! Being a former MBZ wiz kid myself, I'm impressed not only with the total professional handling of the diagnosis methodology but the honesty and professional ethics for not bad-mouuthing the shop who performed the earlier diagnosis. Well done and keep up the great work!

[@sakuraturbo3364]

Dan honestly there’s really few but I mean few people that have the amount of knowledge you have is amazing I always learn something new on your videos good job Dan let us know if you got it started

[@Diagnosedan]

That's great to hear

[@obsoleteprofessor2034]

We had a customer complain that his serpentine belt was making a squawking sound. It turned out that the rubber on the harmonic balancer was loose. I used to work on airplanes. To set the timing on the magnetos, we'd attach a protractor on the propeller with a weighted pointer. Then we'd stick a dummy spark plug in #1 and rotate the engine until it hit the dummy. Then rotate it in the opposite direction. Splitting the number of degrees the engine could not rotate would give TDC. Many times, the rough casting mark on the crankcase was off 2-3 degrees. Some engines had the magnetos timed a few degrees from each other, so accuracy was critical.

[@Diagnosedan]

Smart Idea! Thanks for sharing 👍

[@marekhabel2493]

That’s the first one for me. Until now I thought that those pulleys will partially and visibly brake apart and vibrate before letting go completely. I’ve changed few and never seen one shifted, yet looking so good from outside. Excellent as always Dan! There wasn’t a video of yours that I haven’t learned something from. Thank you.

[@Diagnosedan]

Awsome Marek!

[@revvluvv]

Why can't you fix it? Does another shop pick it up and put it all back together? Luv your channel!

[@MiguelMartinez-np8uo]

Well all I can say is, that was pure genius! I remember a awhile back I had a Toyota Camry that was giving me misfire issues after a few minutes of starting it and eventually I found out that the crankshaft pulley was the issue , the difference was that the key way had made the whole bigger and as you revup the engine the pulley would move causing it to be out of time . Great job man !

[@Diagnosedan]

Great you found the problem Miguel

[@NZdiagnostics]

Fiat 1.9 Diesels are a classic for doing this too.

[@peraltamenta]

You are the Master !!!!

[@gaborkovacs7978]

Dan, it is a really common problem. General rule is to change the pulley if you do timing on the 1998-2009 year range. As a mechanic ( 30 years specialized on EU cars ) I really like your videos. Das Mechanic from USA

[@Diagnosedan]

Thanks for the feedback 👍

[@djmech3871]

You should be “Der Mechaniker.

[@RSi-tf3jx]

It turned out to have a very harmonious outcome because Dan you are a very well Balanced Technician!

[@Diagnosedan]

🤣🤣👍

[@tm199100]

I am amazed by: 1- the pulley re-vulcanizing itselft 2- that engine being so out of time that it was not destroyed by the tentatives of making it start 3- Dan's troubleshooting capacity. Never ceases to amuse

[@Diagnosedan]

I don't know if the pulley would slip if we tried to turn it with more force or warmed up. Fortunately no valves damaged

[@eriklarsen5551]

Tak!

[@knavekid]

I remember learning about how the crank pulley / vibration damper outer ring can slip from a wise high school auto shop teacher in the mid '70s. In those days the pulley had a single mark and the scale was attached to the timing cover. If it had slipped, we scratched a new line in it to set the timing.

[@Diagnosedan]

Thanks for sharing!

[@mk-jl3zd]

Thanks Dan,wonderful job as always,appreciate you.

[@wellybobs4403]

Everytime I watch you do this it blows my mind. I need you in Scotland!

[@frankoattes]

Dan does it again! This would be my point exactly, never trust the marks, always physically check the timing as you done by removing the plugs and viewing the motion of the screwdriver for TDC and viewing the camshaft positions. Sometimes good mechanical knowledge is best. Great video Dan, I’m sure the workshop who gave you the job will be kicking themselves for not doing as you did. Your knowledge and approach to these things always makes great viewing and great instruction on how to approach this type of job.

[@Diagnosedan]

Thank you

[@jothain]

Hahhah. This was interesting. I thought that there's something iffy with sensor making it possible to install in some weird way that would give wrong timing to ECU (later tought that, then again I think it would've misfired/coughed quite a bit). When you placed the new one next to old I still initially though that someone had put wrong model pulley or something until I noticed that markings are indeed at the outerrace, not the inner and that it's indeed dampened model. But I digress. Insanely good video about the fact that things can be f'd at the very basic level. Actually to think of it iirc one of my friends had something quite similar happened on some engine ages ago that I think didn't even have keyway, but only taper on crank. Also used just something like extension bar and measured with that to get engine running 🤔

[@fascistpedant758]

When I saw the timing marks on the sheave I had a flashback to setting ignition timing on old American cars. You could never trust the damper pulley. They could have put an other TDC mark on the hub. An in cylinder pressure test would have saved you time, given that you're not doing the repair.

[@ehsnils]

Or even trust the pulley on any car for that matter. You never know if the pulley got the markings right from the beginning even on those old sheet metal pulleys.

[@Diagnosedan]

In cylinder could have been the next step👍

[@tareka.d1345]

This malfunction is one of the most difficult malfunctions, and no one can fix it. Greetings to you, Professor Dan.. I have a car workshop in Egypt for these problems... You are a legend in car repair

[@Diagnosedan]

Thanks!

[@davidmcclain5180]

I love watching your videos Dan. You are a great diagnostician and I'm sure all of us viewers learn from you. Thanks all the way from Phoenix Arizona.

[@Diagnosedan]

Thank you David

[@danthemann6565]

WOW Dan, honestly I was lost when you asked "what is your next step". You are a remarkable diagnostician, I learn so much from you. Thank you, Axel Perez Hoboken New Jersey USA.

[@Diagnosedan]

Thanks Axel that's great to hear

[@dustcommander100]

Certainly a weird issue. I'd heard of that happening before , but the pulley looked so good, and the markings so precise. Great troubleshooting!

[@Diagnosedan]

You couldn't tell there was something wrong with the pulley

[@robertroldan4736]

Hey, Dan, you are such a good engine doctor, my friend. first. I thought it was the fuel system. Who could have thought that it was the harmonic balancer? Thanks for sharing this with the viewers.

[@jonathanfenne4948]

Had this myself 20 years ago. Mk2 Golf GTi has a similar resonance damper. Drove me crazy for a while. Eventually painted the pulley, drove it, and saw the pen marks moving against each other.

[@Diagnosedan]

Yes that's a smart Idea!

[@mondodaftasabrush]

Very smart because you had a known correct wave pattern to compare with , you knew the timing was at fault by so many degrees , so you knew it was the timing all along , sadly the original mechanic as most would set up with what he has got pulley wise and looks visually okay no rubber deaeration and never thought about going old school to check it by old methods DTI probe or as in your case big old screwdriver probe , so lucky they haven't kissed the valves ? or have they ?

[@Diagnosedan]

No damage to the valves, there was visually nothing wrong with the pulley

[@nicknicu1787]

Great stuff! I suspected a timing issue by the way it was sounding during cranking…

[@Diagnosedan]

Thanks for watching

[@W.Khairi]

exactly

[@levikasberg4539]

This is exactly the kind of videos that are needed! The Obscure and odd stuff. Most of us home mechanics, however talented or experienced some of us might be, don't turn to KZbin videos until we've been scratching our heads for quite a while. We tend to trust Factory markings Etc. This is a real Lifesaver for somebody out there! Thank you

[@daveturner5305]

On older cars, pre 1980, a screwdriver in no. 1 was often used to check for TDC. Nice one!

[@Diagnosedan]

Yes but not all engines are timed in TDC these days.

[@daveturner5305]

@DiagnoseDan That's why you're the man. Life and engineering changes. I've no doubt that you would have diagnosed the fault in another way if that were the case. In my day I always carried a toolkit, oil, grease, brake fluid, water & corn flakes packets. That was enough to get me home unless there was a catastrophic failure!

[@spectre750]

Fantastic! I've seen that before on a Honda V6 and just like you, confirmed the TDC with a long screwdriver. A previous shop had done a front oil seal and they lost the woodruff key on reassembly. It lasted quite a while because the bottom crank pulley was torqued up while the timing was correct. However after 18 months or so the cambelt drive behind the front pulley had slipped by a couple of teeth.

[@BarryEdmunds-ki2rl]

Idiot you always use a screwdriver don't matter what marking say bro you lot are dumb just wasted 20 min of my time with vdan the bullshit boy

[@patokaa93]

Hah, the minute you disclosed the issue and told it was an M271, I knew that it had to be the crank pulley. Just a few weeks ago I happened to read a forum post about a M271 timing chain replacement that had this exact issue, and it made the original poster of that topic almost crazy. Very nice diagnosis never the less, like always. Not an easy one to figure out.

[@Diagnosedan]

I realised this must happen to others that's why we'll create a bulletin on this issue👍

[@aor3200]

Very good video and talent! TDC check is very basic but many times forgotten skill.

[@Diagnosedan]

Thanks!

[@gregculverwell]

I was taught in my early teens to never rely on the crank pulley marks to time an engine - they are not always accurate. My 1st 4 cars were Alfas which had a vernier adjustment for cam timing, so you could set cam timing very accurately. Modern cars don't have that ability (too expensive) , but I have continued to use a dial gauge all my adult life.

[@Diagnosedan]

Smart❗💪

[@jocker621021]

great jobs you are a genius 🎉

[@vickenkaragozian2041]

You can check it with in cylinder pressure transducer and a ignition timing control signal accurately. Great stuff Dan. 👍

[@theredbomb]

Was thinking the same thing too, I guess you can't always think right while you're in the storm.

[@hoedenbesteller]

Or use a screwdriver :)

[@theredbomb]

@@hoedenbesteller Indeed it's another way to achieve the same result but you didn't need to spend a lot of money on tools, it's a matter of wanting to save money or time.

[@Diagnosedan]

Yes you are right, maybe next time 👍

[@rodrigobriciajr.9855]

I sallute you dan...I've work at Hyundai industry for 12 years as a technician but I've never meet a good tech like you...that's why I always watch your channel pick to some good ideas...thanks...hope you never stop doing videos it helps a lot

[@Diagnosedan]

That's a great comment Rodrigo👍

[@panzerveps]

I remember seeing this on a Passat ages ago. Car drove in for a timing belt replacement. Couldn't get the timing marks to line up. Never had any issues starting the car, but it was a real headscratcher!

[@Diagnosedan]

I can imagine

[@bachaouisaliha9936]

I am a follower from the country of Algeria, and I am a hobbyist who learns to diagnose car malfunctions. I have a high technical specialization in electronics. I like to fetch information from the Internet, especially from KZbin, for example, from Al-Arabiya channels for KZbin. By chance, I met your channels and followed the explanation, and I depended on the translation into French. I was really impressed by your explanation frankly. You are a special person, well-versed in information, and you have a more than wonderful way of learning. What can I say to you? A huge difference when you learn from Arab channels and American channels. I wished to be at the level of your professionalism and I tip my hat to your high level. Thank you, sir🏭🏭🏭🏭🏭🏭🏭🏭

[@someone28]

I always look forward to your videos. You are a fountain of knowledge, even though I work only on my own project cars I am no longer afraid to tackle these types of problems. Also love the bloopers at the end.

[@Diagnosedan]

Thank you

[@matusekpetr7806]

I was thinking about shifted ring for crankshaft sensor, but WOOOOOW , this is unbilievable ! Well DONE DAN !

[@Diagnosedan]

Thanks!

[@Garth2011]

Nice diagnosis Dan. You would think that MB would put marks on the pully and the hub so that it would be easy to see if the rubber is slipping between them. Most folks wouldn't dream of this part being at fault...as you found out. Wow, that slipped a whole bunch and the problem came from the used engine. The original shop that found timing chains needed to be replaced should have kept the original engine and put on the new chain assembly because there is no guarantee a used engine is going to be OEM correct plus the computer needs programmed I believe. What a ton of added labor the customer is being subjected to not to mention the loss of use of the vehicle for a month plus. Maybe its a good idea for shops to take a marker and scribe a line across the hub and outer pully on a known good crank pully assy when they are dealing with vehicles that have them just to have a reference for the next time they work on that customers car. So, who is going to absorb all of the added labor up to the crank pully?

[@Diagnosedan]

I guess the didn't expect the pully to slip when they designed it🤣

[@throttlebottle5906]

that's not the first engine damper designed that way and sure wont be the last! even if it's mounted on the solid portion, NEVER trust it's accuracy, nor the dot/indicator on a timing cover, always physically confirm it's right. A dial indicator setup is the best way, but you can get very close with screwdriver/rod/whatever. I have seen partially sheered keys and other issues throwing the marks way off.

[@htownblue11]

Wow. Way to go Dan. I can’t imagine how many people this will help. You’re an artist.

[@Diagnosedan]

Thanks 😁😁

[@davyboy380]

Your the man Dan, well done mate,another under your belt,a true master..Love your videos Dan.

[@Diagnosedan]

That's great David 👍 Thanks

[@paulkaakee1304]

You should hire me as I had it diagnosed 10 min ago, just joking but same thing happened to me about 25 years ago on a old ford 302

[@blockbertus]

First time you showed the pulley, I was like "he is going to have the problem ivan had where that pulley slipped somehow". Hopefully there was no touchy-touchy with the valves and pistons. I also think that the engine ended at the junkyard exactly because of that issue. They changed the chain (maybe due to timing error codes) and also timed it with the marks on the pulley. Couldnt figure it out and junked it. Poor customer who owned THAT engine before. Let's hope they still have the original ECM...

[@Diagnosedan]

Thanks for watching

[@nickvanderstroom6884]

Turn the engine first by hand.. i always do when unsure.. also.. when its 40 degrees off like that, sometimes by ear you hear there,s something wrong..

[@chrisdabrowski]

I don't know if there is someone who can explain better than Mr Dan, and in addition, he shares his knowledge.....respect 👏👍💪

[@Diagnosedan]

Thanks!

[@blueskiesmobileauto4253]

That was an awesome find and informative as always! Well done Dan!

[@Diagnosedan]

Thank you

[@marcelodelcarmen8848]

Hi Dan that is very clear and well explained symptoms, diagnose and most of all the FIXED!!!! Job well done Sir!!!!

[@Diagnosedan]

Thank you very much 👍

[@punny26]

Love your Videos Dan! Hope you can show us many more new stuff. I'm always happy learning more and more from you. Wish you the best and stay healthy 👍👍

[@Diagnosedan]

Great to hear thanks

[@stitchergary]

I wish Dan worked near me... No one else would touch my car....thanks for the video

[@Diagnosedan]

Thank you 😁👍

[@jongankul]

Something very similar to this happened to my Volvo 2.4 engine as well. The timing belt pulley on the crankshaft wore the splines on the crank itself, causing the timing to be off just slightly. Luckily it didn't bend the valves. This was caused by me not torquing the harmonic balancer nut properly.

[@Diagnosedan]

You were lucky!

[@eldredhamilton5606]

Great diagnosis Dan! The first thing that came to mind was that the timing wasn't on compression stroke, and I was right. But I couldn't figure out why the marks didn't line up after you got the compression stroke up, on top dead center! But you learn something new every day! That defective timing mark pulley is a real tricky thing to look out for. Good observation Dan! Thanks! For the great tip!

[@tudormununar4451]

Hi. Be aware that almost all OM271 engines like the one in the movie have the same problem regardless of the Mercedes model. I think the problem is due to the climate associated with the aging of the rubber between the outside of the pulley and its hub. I mention that I work with this type of car and I ran into this problem a few years ago when I had to replace the timing of this engine, of course I suffered as colleagues from the other service and it took me two days to to find the mistake. Luckily the difference wasn't big and they didn't hit the piston valves. Respectfully.

[@Diagnosedan]

Thanks for the feedback, i guess Mercedes specialists know about this problem

[@tendaidavidchingawo9849]

What I discovered with the m271 engines when it comes to valve timing is that you don't rely on the OT mark on the crankshaft pulley in relationship with the camshaft marks,the mark on the crankshaft seems to shift after sometime in it's lifetime. I have always successfully timed this engine by making sure the Number 1 piston is on Top Dead Center.You are a genius Dan

[@michaelchristou5127]

Absolutely brilliant Dan!! Fantastic imagination to have sorted that!! Thanks for the great video, can’t wait for the next. Mike

[@Diagnosedan]

Thank you very much Mike👍

[@andyoverall1951]

I doubt that many techs would pick up that issue. Well done!

[@Diagnosedan]

Thanks Andy, now everyone that watched this video will remember🤣

[@paulhutchins6019]

Just plain nasty that fault, lol. Just shows, assume nothing and double check everything! 😳. Well done Dan. Shame they wouldn't let you finish it.

[@Diagnosedan]

Yes i would have loved to hear it run

[@elcheapo5302]

That was great, Dan. That would cause a lot of people a lot of frustration.

[@Diagnosedan]

I can Imagine

[@The_Redkween]

Dan is the man, as usual!! I thought it was going to be the wrong timing cover on the engine since it was an engine of unknown origin. I was wrong. I believe the Fire Explorers had a similar issue to this.

[@Diagnosedan]

Thanks Scott!

[@ЕвгенийСеменов-д3д]

Dan, you are the greatest diagnose man))

[@Diagnosedan]

Thank you

[@markt5426]

Hi Dan, Again thank you for sharing your experience via your website. I know that you thought it was a timing issue however, what gave you the indication to check cylinder 1 to ensure TDC? As always, looking forward to your next video and glad to see you are feeling better after covid. 👍👍👍

[@Diagnosedan]

Hi Mark a long time ago i used to work at a company that made race engines. We never worked with timing marks but always timed the engines by measuring the position of the pistons/crank Shaft and the camshafts. Somehow that's still in my system.

[@uploadJ]

Only you piston knows for sure - where TDC is! Simple yet reliable -ye olde long shafted screwdriver.

[@mohamedzouhair6859]

wow another mystery solved by the great Dan.

[@Diagnosedan]

😁👍

[@oldschool1993]

I think those engines have a special pin to lock the crank so you can torque that front pulley bolt- if the other shop didn't have the pin, they might have tried to hold the pulley with a strap wrench and it spun the outer damper when they torqued it. Not a great design, as that outer damper could get moved if the water pump or alternator or power steering pulley seized suddenly and the belt stopped while the motor was spinning. My guess is the junkyard engine probably got jammed in a wreck and the damper spun a bit- you remember the other shop said they checked the timing and it was off- actually it was probably correct, but they were reading TDC off that spun damper, so when they adjusted it, they actually put it out of time.

[@blockbertus]

It did not spin on the crankshaft. The outer ring with the marks on it is connected to the inner part with a rubber ring in between for dampening. That rubber ring wore over time and allowed the outer ring to slip. That is not a problem as long as the chain is not changed because the belt driven by that does not have timing what so ever. It became a problem once the shop who junked that engine in the first place did a timing job on it. They didnt realize that their marks on the crankshaft pulley where off by around 40° (which is A LOT!). If MB would have placed timing marks on the inner part somehow, that would never have been a problem in the first place. Or if they didnt use a rubber ring between the inner and outer part of it.

[@oldschool1993]

@@blockbertus I did not say it spun on the crank, but the outer ring was probably stopped suddenly in an accident and the crank kept moving before the engine died. But yes, a poor design with the mark not directly connected to the steel part of the pulley.

[@blockbertus]

@@oldschool1993 oh yeah. That could also quite possibly be. But very unlikely i suppose. Such an accident would leave damage on the engine too i suppose. The belt would slip before it would drag the outer ring around. Plus, it then must have spun it over/more than 360° (400° minimum to be exact).

[@oldschool1993]

@@blockbertus No- the inner pulley only moved 40 degrees- look at the comparison you can see the keyway for the crank is almost exactly 40 degrees clockwise of where it should be, indicating that the outer ring stopped and the crank kept moving. This could happen 2 ways- 1. The outer ring was suddenly stopped while the engine was running 2. The outer ring was held in place by some method while the crank bolt was torqued and the force of the torque moved the inner pulley inside the outer ring. It's a good detective story, because Dan says the junkyard engine had a new timing chain. That means at some point before the engine ended up in the junkyard, someone had installed a new timing chain and it was a running motor. ( you can't get into a wreck if the car doesn't run). So what happened was A: The original mechanic set and checked his cam timing before fully torqueing the pulley, and then during the torque procedure he managed to move the outer ring out of place, but the timing was correct and the motor ran fine. OR 2: The pulley was somehow jammed during the wreck and the crank moved inside it before the inertia of the motor stopped. Here is where the story is hard to follow. Even though the timing mark was wrong, the cam timing should have still been correct and the motor would have run. So now they are searching for the reason and begin looking for a problem in the electronics- remember someone had cut and repaired wires on one cam sensor- then they buy a used ECU with no success. Somewhere in this process before they get the used ECU cloned, the mechanic decides to check the cam timing and he thinks it is wrong because of the spun timing mark, so he re-adjusts the cam timing and they continue with the cloning of the ECU which is now OK, but still no start because the mechanic has now got the timing wrong, so they throw their tools across the shop, call a tow truck and send it to Dan.

[@blockbertus]

@@oldschool1993 a crap. I had in mind that the keyway was on the other side of the OT mark for some reason. i checked it again and sorta agree with you on that now. however, i feel it would be more likely that it was held in place manually while reassembly or rotated slowly over time.

[@RATADATUAVELHA]

this is why I love your explanations. I wish my college teachers were like you in every class! you not only share knowledge but you do have the special power to grab our attention, that's not easy. specially my attention. great job!

[@Diagnosedan]

Thank you for the great comment it's appriciated 👍

[@deaddoll1361]

When you first moved the engine so the top dead centre marker on the pulley would line up, I thought confirming that mark would have been a logical move, considering removing a spark plug to check isn't that difficult. I've seen those outer rings move before, as I used to do a lot of engine work, mainly performance types. After confirming the pulley was correct during assembly, I'd mark across from the inner to outer so any change could be easily seen, as performance engines take a beating and their owners often aren't engine savvy.

[@Diagnosedan]

Smart thinking 👍

[@robgreen7576]

There is no fooling you. Brilliant diag.

[@Diagnosedan]

😉

[@Nico_335i_DCT]

Great fix Dan. At the end my guess was the crank pully. But, did the engine run on this new crank pully? Dutch regards, Nico.

[@Diagnosedan]

Hi Nico, helaas mocht ik alleen diagnose stellen. De auto is opgehaald en ik zal een update geven zodra ik meer weet👍

[@julesviolin]

I've had this before a few times on a Rover KV6 engines !! It's crazy putting timing marks on the outer ring separated by rubber when you think about it!!! I now only go on the lock pin holes on the flywheel. They never slip 😎

[@Diagnosedan]

You are right 👍

[@MattyEngland]

Great video Dan, very interesting. Does the shop manual mention replacing the pulley when doing the timing belt?

[@christophermarshall5765]

This isn't normally a requirement.

[@madds6678]

No it doesn’t & it’s chain driven not a belt

[@Diagnosedan]

No it doesn't

[@aussiefirestorm]

Well done Dan, in Australia 1970's GM Holdens were notorious for slipping balancer rings.

[@Diagnosedan]

Thanks for the feedback Jeremy👍

[@sambitar8448]

Dan, Shifting harmonic balancer will also have a low compression reading on all cylinders; and as you indicated that cylinder #1 was NOT on the compression stroke and showed it is way off. Dan, you hit the nail on the head right at that point. thank you. Thank you for your genius thoughts as always.

[@Diagnosedan]

Thanks for watching

[@alanmcclelland5245]

Seen this on a GM truck with a 350 40years ago The truck had no power, it had been losing power gradually over time which I was not aware of. It came to the dealership for a tune up, plugs wires etc, etc carb was also cleaned. Took it for a drive still no power. Another tecnician buddy with much more GM experience that I had at the time drove it with me, stopped and power timed it at the side of the road. I told him I had checked the timing that's when. he told me about how the crank harmonic balancers shift in the same manner as yours. Never seen that problem again in the rest of the time I worked on cars but I never forgot that experience. I suspected the woodruff key was damaged or even missing, not being aware that Mercedes have the same crank pulley design. I had a similar experience with low power hard starting on a Pontiac Le Mans with a 305 engine, once again Chess came to the rescue when he told me the were prone to camshaft wear on particular lobes. I came to find out years later it was a design flaw where the lobe offset was not sufficient to rotate the cam follower so constant contact between the parts cause excessive wear. As opposed to the generally held belief that it was poor material as the root cause.

[@digitalpunk88]

You obviously heard the cranking sound which led you to chase timing or compression issues. I've found that listening to known good engine starts also helps in diagnosing these issues. There's hundreds of thousands of car starts on YT and they've helped me more than once to diagnose engines that I hadn't worked on before. Great work and really good explanations from your end!

[@Diagnosedan]

Thanks for watching!

[@victoryfirst2878]

This problem that you diagnosed "RANG MY BELL" my mental bell that is. Been too long ago to remember the exact make and model but I do remember changing a few timing pulleys that were way off the mark of "TOP DEAD CENTER". The exact same thing happened, outer ring spun from proper timing marks. Let me ponder that thought a few weeks and get back to you Dan. Just hope my memory disk did not get corrupted to say the least. Nice presentation and verbal, mental diagnosis. Keep up the great work too. Peace

[@Diagnosedan]

Let me know when it all Comes back🤣🤣

[@victoryfirst2878]

@@Diagnosedan I am hoping it comes back soon. Nice work fella. I am just amazed at the number of techies that think they know all. Then they find out they do not.

[@DavidRa90]

You are euphoric in your video 😂 it’s good for my moral 😅 and you still always excellent in your diagnosis approach. Thanks Dan, you did it again 🎉

[@techgamer1597]

My day has become 60 times better now Dan has uploaded

[@Diagnosedan]

🤣🤣

[@duanedonaldson2262]

This is why the timing marks use the symbol OT, this means that Over Time, this outer ring will slip. A common enough problem on US Brands that this is considered a normal inspection and you 100% got it correct via your long screwdriver inspection, awesome find DD.

[@Diagnosedan]

🤣🤣👍

[@stein-arnefalchpedersen2222]

You are the best Dan! Impressed what faults and errors you are finding. Looking forward to see your next video!

[@Diagnosedan]

Thank you

[@aaronwon6056]

The best diagnose channel on youtube. Hands down. 🎉🎉

[@mike-yp1uk]

I like you videos because the content, screen close ups, attention to details and your cutting out the work time so we get the facts. Totally 👍 awesome. Great camera angles too.

[@nomebear]

I can't believe it was such a strange problem. You're good! No, you're excellent at what you do.

[@tabezulu5686]

Remember diagnosisdan fixed it again, I get reliable info from u, which helps, it's cheaper and reliable to watch your videos especially when u leave in developing countries like me were where ordinary OBD readers are expensive

[@Diagnosedan]

Thanks for watching

[@olisahopene947]

this is outstanding, dan u have resolved yet another mystery that can potentially condemn engines to the junkyards around the world. but these pulleys are replaced at some time in the cars life right. bravo bravo a standing ovation bro. keep it coming.

[@Diagnosedan]

Thank you!

[@ernsailor9041]

As soon as you said you weren't sure what to do next I said check tdc really is tdc, you must have heard me as it was the very next thing you did. 👍

[@Diagnosedan]

I heard you!!🤣🤣👍