Did Grindelwald CAUSE World War II? - Harry Potter Theory

[@macwelch8599]

A meeting with Adolf Hitler and Gellert would be amazing to see on the big screen. In fact, give us an entire WW2 movie with the Wizarding World

[@yasminni485]

It would be cool, as long as they don't use a "revised version" of history. This is, unfortunately, a topic that many young people today no nothing about or how it even got started. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it - we're seeing it happening right now. Maybe using the Harry Potter universe to teach history is a fantastic idea.

[@zackent4882]

@@yasminni485 it’s pretty much standard curriculum in Canadian schools. You would be surprised. Many kids that are passionate about history.

[@yasminni485]

@@zackent4882 I'm really happy to hear that. As an Israeli who used to live in Canada, and I'm repatriating soon, I'm extremely nervous about the rise of anti semitism in Canada. Hopefully the next generation will do better.

[@SnoTangerine]

I definitely think that it would have been explored at the end of FB4 and into FB5, that while Grindelwald wasn't the main cause of WWII, his true intentions were to seize control of the wizarding world and fan the flames of the muggle war. Let them destroy each other and then swoop in at their lowest moment. And Newt, Dumbledore and their allies would have been involved in taking down his regime.

[@AquaMarin-ww3qx]

Grindelwald had his base in a castle in the Austrian Alps. Hitler had his infamous Berghof residence at the edge of the Berchtesgaden Alps which are partly in Germany and partly in Austria (it would only be about 6 km/ 3.8 miles from Hitlers place to the Austrian border) so there would be opportunities for meetings for sure.

[@Sarcasmavadakedavra]

I think this is just an analogy. Not a dystopia.

[@robertgronewold3326]

One thing that Grindelwald did say in the film was when he corrected Rosier, who made an offhanded comment about wiping out the muggles entirely, saying that he did not want all, just less, as the 'beast of burden' was still important. I think it's very clear that one of his intentions was that he wanted to facilitate a worldwide conflict that would have caused the muggles to take the initiative and essentially reduce their population themselves. Grindelwald cared less about if the Nazis were committing a particular genocide, just that deaths were happening, with millions losing their lives. Likely if Grindelwald had continued to have his way, the war would have probably spread to the continental Americas as well, with other divisions and governments gnawing at each other until the muggle population was low enough that Grindelwald's Acolytes could have established a total wizard takeover across the globe.

[@craxd1]

He tried to take over the ICW in order to rule over every wizarding government via treaty, and he was in cahoots with the German magicals to do it. I think his lot would have been connected to Himmler and the SS; both tied to the occult. They probably had magicals inside the SS, and before that, in the Brown Shirts. When one looks at what Gellert wanted, it was to enslave the muggles after a genocide to thin the numbers. Tom wanted something similar.

[@RabbiKrieg]

From a story writing perspective, not a fan of Grindelwald using the imperius curse, it's an excuse Hitler doesn't need, but Grindelwald seeing Hitler as useful ally, in the sense that all the horrible things he does helps Grindelwald's cause, and Grindelwald planning to just get rid of him later makes sense. Grindelwald is an ends justify the means type of guy anyway.

[@craxd1]

I think that JKR was hinting that Grindelwald could have had ties to Himmler, who was into the occult, along with a few others. The SS was based around this, and their "retreat" was at Wewelsburg Castle, where rituals were held.

[@Alex.Kandmor]

I think this does work very well, maybe Gellert is the reason Hitler was so into the super natural and always looking for "magical" means to aid in the war!

[@robertgronewold3326]

Actually, Hitler himself was not really into the occult that much, but his Vice Fuhrer Himler was EXTREMELY into the occult, and was a member of the Thule Occult Society. In the Harry Potter lore, it makes more than a little sense if there were actual wizards and witches in that organization, pulling the strings and manipulating the muggle world.

[@76tennboy]

I definitely prefer the third over the second. Claiming that Hitler is a victim is a couple dozen bridges too far.

[@AustynSN]

Thank you for saying this. I had the same feeling as soon as that section started.

[@susanconway3738]

How do you figure "Secrets of Dumbledore" takes place in 1937? Early in the movie, Lally recites to Jacob: "A little over a year ago, in the hopes of securing a small business loan, you walked through the doors of the Steen National Bank........and made the acquaintance of one Newt Scamander...". Since that meeting occurred in late 1926 and the events in Paris happened in 1927, presumably late spring-early summer, Lally must recruit Jacob in late 1927 or early 1928. That said, I agree there are Grindelwald-Hitler parallels, which could have been quite interesting to see depicted.

[@raewren]

I think that’s more of an oversight on the part of the writers. It’s considered general consensus that it’s supposed to be placed in the early 1930s, with some placing it in 1932.

[@susanconway3738]

@@raewren Hmmm, perhaps oversight on the part of the video writer(s) but Lally's line is straight out of the published script. She might be off, at most, a year, pushing this scene into late 1928 or early 1929, given the wintry conditions. This gives Credence plenty of time to grow out his hair! :) I don't think he would have lasted into the 1930s.

[@didreams969]

Grindelwald was in MACUSA prison for just 6 months.. so 1927 not 10 yrs later.

[@mecahhannah]

❤ Awesome as always thanks

[@ladvargleinad7566]

When I read Philosophers Stone for the first time, and got to the Chocolate Frog card of Dumbledore, and how he defeated Grindelwald in 1945, my first thought was this.

[@breebree8200]

I said it before and I'll say it again. Grindelwald being responsible for WWII is not a good look... for Albus Dumbledore, because remember a certain letter to said Dark Wizard by darling Albus. How did it go again? "We seize control for the Greater Good!" 💀💀💀 Defender of muggle rights my ass. Also, it trivialises Voldemort. Because Voldemort becomes someone who failed to take over just Magical Britain, while Grindelwald nearly took over the world.

[@redraven7351]

What is the music in the beginning? I know for a fact that its from the harry potter soundtrack, but what is the name ???

[@grokeffer6226]

This could have very well been the case.

[@charliehovey4534]

i dont think we will ever get fantastic beasts 4 and 5 i hate it when movie componys leave stuff half way through.

[@dkjkaden]

Never understood why Cilin Farrell couldn't assume his role

[@ascot36]

Just to point out you forgot to mention Italy for Axis powers my guy..... kind of a big deal you know 😅

[@marty2129]

I don't think that in Rowling's Wizarding World Grindelwald influenced Hitler, but I believe he was both instrumental in NSDAP's rise to power and was directly influencing at least one of Hitler's key enforcers. Because I believe he would be ally and/or benefactor of (or puppetmaster behind) the leader of Waffen-SS, Heinrich Himmler. Yes, there were quite a few occult undertones in the overall Nazi Party and some of its predecessor organisations, but for SS and Himmler it was probably the most prominent. There was the whole SS-backed search for alleged origins of "superior race" that Himmler was backing, as well as other actions (the most famous would be the search for "magical and legendary artefacts", such as the spear of Longinus), something that could be attributed to blending of the magical and muggle world. Also, as for motivations, I think Grindelwald wanted to use the war not to convince the wizarding world, but to allow for his direct takeover of both worlds during all the destruction and confusion. After all, even the WW1/Great War made quite a mess in wizarding community, at least from what Newt implied in the first Fantastic Beasts, and this direct influence of muggle word on the wizarding one wouldn't be overlooked by Grindelwald. But I don't think he might go on to cause those visions, in fact I think he might have, much like Voldemort after him, actually try to prevent some of those visions of coming true only to have his actions be the ones to cause them. By the way, it would have been quite poetic justice if the duel between Dumbledore and Grindelwald happened not on the V-E Day, but in late August or early September of 1945 after the final piece of Grindelwald's vision, the development and use of nuclear weapons, was realised.

[@jonathank4278]

What if it is more like Star Wars? What if he was leading both sides (🇩🇪 and 🇺🇸 )?

[@francescocarlini7613]

Grindelwald acting as the middle man between Hitler and Stalin, while manipulating them both. That would be awesome to see!

[@hackman669]

He's not that smart 😅

[@susanclay4225]

He could have been controlling every country taking part in ww2

[@Ravenblack42]

Grindelwald’s speech: “It is said that I hate le Non-magiques. The Muggle. The No-Maj. The Can't-Spells. I do not hate them; I do not. For I do not fight out of hatred. I believe that the Muggles are not lesser, but other. Not worthless, but of other value. Not disposable, but of different disposition”. After revealing his vision of the horrors Hitler would later bring about during WWII: “THAT... is what we are fighting. That is the enemy: their arrogance; their power-lust; their barbarity. How long will it take before they turn their weapons on us” Unlike Hitler, Grindelwald sought to bring about “the greater good” through the means of subjecting the Muggle World under the supreme rule of the Wizarding World. If Dumbledore hadn’t put an end to this in 1945 when he defeated Grindelwald, I fear that the retaliation from muggle-kind would have wiped the Wizarding World from existence.

[@pb99-z3r]

I am a firm believer that Grinderwald led to WW2 ever since I saw the Fantastic beast movies.

[@Drademdar]

No, I don't think Grindelwald caused the Second World War. They say necessity is the mother of invention and, in Muggle's history, war has sadly been seen as one of the most significant necessities for innovations in science and technology. Grindelwald would have known this, and if he had planned to fight the Muggles one day, why would he purposely have allowed them to become more advanced and potent? Yes, many people died in the Second World War, but even after the end, there were still considerably more Muggles than magical people. Besides, I doubt the magical world would remain utterly unscathed from the war, reducing their population even more. Considering the number of people in the magical world was already low, this would have been a more critical problem than for the Muggles. Overall, I can't see any reason Grindelwald would wish to cause the Second World War. It would only strengthen the Muggles' technology without reducing their numbers enough to matter in a potential future war with the magical world, whose population would risk being reduced even more from this conflict.

[@jonathancampbell5231]

He doesn't think, or care, that would be getting more advanced; hi goal would be getting the Muggles to commit numerous atrocities so he can convince the Wizarding world to take them over as Muggles clearly cannot be trusted to run themselves. The population issues are irrelevant, since without the war he'd have even more people to deal with, yet we know for a fact that he wants to conquer the Muggles anyway.

[@stevenplyler6306]

Emma Watson actually is Delphini Riddle Diggory !

[@wyatthale3861]

The last movie was set in 1932, according to Wikipedia not 1937.

[@naypowell1715]

I wish a fantastic beast movie was made where Grindelwald told Hitler about the Wizarding World and helped Hitler raise to power Hitler would tell the nazis about the wizarding world and Grindelwald would start an alliance with Hitler and Hitler and Grindelwald would invade the Wizarding world and a war between muggles and wizards and witches would begin Hitler stopped his plans on invading Poland with the soviets and a war would go on changing the wizarding world as we know it

[@naypowell1715]

I know this might bit a little bit accurate but they’re billons or universes with different possibilities so you never know.

[@DavidAltman-g1l]

Joseph gobbles was really Grindelwald

[@permeus2nd]

So I really don’t think he was I mean there is already more than enough odd stuff in our real world leading up to WW2 like how AH was the only member of his unit in WW1 to survive a mustard gas attack and he somehow walked out of that! I’ve heard the idea floated that it wasn’t him that walked out of it but something using his body. Personally I don’t know how I feel about that idea I mean it’s not like us humans aren’t capable of doing such bad things we have been screwing each other over since the dawn of humanity we don’t need demons for us to do horrible things.

[@quoniam426]

Wait, I thought that FB 3 took place in 1932, thus one year before the nazi party gaining power over Germany?? Doesn't change much about the assumtion of a link between Griendelwald and WW2 though as it was my own theory to begin with (even before FB 2), the connection is already kind of obvious in Deathly Hallows and even in Philosopher Stone when we see Dumbledore chocolate Frog card mentionning the epic duel taking place in 1945... Grindelwald must not have allied his acolytes with the nazis, otherwise Soviets or Allies wouldn't not have won the war (unless you consider direct intervention from Macusa and Europe Magical Authorities to help Allies as well to compensate. Grindelwald might have preferred a Muggle conflict to cripple them and made them easier to control. This was ultimately a failure because at the end of WW2, despite at least 50 million dead, Muggles with their atomic weapons were more powerful than ever before. So either Grindelwald didn't bother to infiltrate USA Muggle secret authorities to prevent Project Manhattan to come to fruition, or Allied Wizards prevented him to. In one case he didn't intervine directly, in the other, there was a counter move from the Wizards on the Allied Nations. Maybe we can trace the emergency procedure of Magical Prime Ministers reaching out to their Muggle counterparts in case of crisis from WW2 then... (in the option that Grindelwald forced them to, otherwise, it dates from another time...) Grindelwald doesn't necessarily need to intervine or be responsible. All he has to do is to take the opportunity to take advantage of the situation as any "worthy" politician would. In the case he was responsible for WW2, one then must beg the question, was he responsible for WW1 as well? It happened between his graduation and his relationship with Dumbledore and the events of FB series... So there is a void open to interpretation there.

[@fishandjam5383]

Here's another theory for you: Could Hitler have been a disguise for Grindelwald?

[@fredricclack7137]

No: Fred Drumpf 🤪

[@user-adrsilva123]

So How did The The European Wizarding Community react to France and Britain Declaring War on Germany! And How the The American Wizarding Community react to America as a Whole Declaring War and Japan and Germany?

[@dilwindersingh-x7b]

if only he helped actually win WW2 for the good guys, aka the axis.

[@aleksandergruchot9803]

Hitler's and Nazi's in general interest in ocult seems to support at least the last theory

[@jonathancampbell5231]

It was more Heinrich Himmler who was into the Occult. Hitler himself though it was all silly superstitious nonsense, and only paid lip service to it beause some of his followers were really into it.

[@zogkuma]

If he really did have a hand in WW2, then he shouldn't have been imprisoned in my opinion. No no. Prison would be way too good for him then. Lol

[@untitled6391]

The theory that Hitler was put under the Imperius curse by Grind would piss off JK Rowling

[@Sarcasmavadakedavra]

and she's right. That's an inspiration. An analogy. Not a dystopia, why are you so obsessed with deposessing her from her own material? Who ought you the right to?

[@slenderskeptic]

I rarely comment on thee but no there's no point to this video, to this conjecture something real world historical, something this big, you work the narrative around such that it could still happen without it because you demand way too much of your audience to make the narrative responsible for the real world things when the real world thing will happen without the story no matter what else happens and shatter the willing suspension of disbelief required into a billion tiny pieces for no good reason

[@zeltroid1730]

Im the first veiw. Thats a first 🫡

[@melanievetter6211]

😊🎉✨️🦁🏝

[@SzaboB33]

Whatever happened in the fantasy world, here: in the real world, we muggles are blood thirsty mofos :(

[@hackman669]

Historically the most blood thirsty are those with the most to lose. The elites with the most power. Usually royals in history, to modern politicians controlled by corporate heads and cartels. Mean while the average person is more tolerant and less violent 😅

[@fredricclack7137]

N😮 DEPP NO 👍🤮😫

[@SzaboB33]

Grindelwald controlling Hitler with the Imperius curse and Hitler's mania on ancient "magical" artifacts together make my imagination run wild :D

[@stevenplyler6306]

I want to warn you that Emma Watson sides with the Palestinians and Hermione Granger Watson has a Dark Mark as well, Yikes !