Did Homer really write The Iliad and Odyssey - Indo European origins and the Mahabharata

[@Crecganford]

Would you like me to look deeper into North American myths or Old Norse myths?

[@isdvjbh]

I wouldn't mine both of those. Also, I think a analysis of Hamlet's mill maybe comparing it with the myths/stories of the PIE.

[@KimKhan]

I'd live top see something about the theory of the Aesir and Vanir being a reflection (or at least connected to actual events) of the Indo-Europeans migrating into Scandinavia and merging together with the original inhabitants.

[@Crecganford]

@@KimKhan Yes, certainly, I could do something around the Aesir. Thanks for watching and your thoughts

[@watermelonlalala]

@@isdvjbh Last I checked Hamlet's Mill was screaming for someone to go through the material and draw some conclusions. Try to fit some pieces of the puzzle together.

[@ActualLiteralKyle]

Dude this was amazing I would watch a million of these, both Native American like this and Old Norse like Thor and Midgard Serpent

[@bobmcbob9856]

The dead wife + broken promise + wife stays in the underworld is also present in Japan as part of their creation myth

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment.

[@JimMonsanto]

You beat me to it! I was going to mention Izanami and Izanagi. @Crecganford, Izanami died giving birth to the fire god and went to Yomi (the underworld). Izanagi wanted her back so he went to Yomi and searched in the darkness for Izanami. She demanded that he not light a torch, lest he see her rotted visage. He lit the torch, anyway, and was horrified to see what had become of Izanami. She became enraged and chased him out of Yomi. His tears and snot became the Sun goddess and the god of storms.

[@sinkhole777]

Also sounds a bit like every third country western song! :-)

[@ronagoodwell2709]

@@sinkhole777 Someone should do a study comparing US country-western music themes and old Norse Myths or the Mahabharata or the Thousand Nights and a Night. Take your pick. Another possibility: Madison Avenue marketing motifs and Jungian archetypes. Fun begins soon.

[@joeyk4476]

Another great video

[@Brandon-a-writer]

As a fellow KZbinr, I really must say this channel is criminally underrated. Deep history like this is really difficult to research and extemporize intelligently without broad and deep knowledge of the subject matter. Keep up the great work sir

[@Crecganford]

Thank you so much for your kind words

[@8bitnespunk]

I concur! I do my best to Like all the videos I watch and evangelize them to others. I have intentions of joining the patreon and buying merch... if that's a thing, just as soon as my life is a little less relentlessly spartan.

[@Not-Ap]

27:30Yes there is. There is a paiute indian story that's very similar about a man who is distraught over his wife's death. He follows her to a scared mountain range and travels deep into the caves hoping to die but he doesn't. Instead he hears sounds from within cave system of people laughing, dancing, and reveling. He follows the sounds till he comes to bridge over a vast casm which leads to a place with light, trees, grass, animals and most importantly a large camp of people all having a party. Among them is wife who he reunites with and the leader of the camp says he can take her back with him on one condition. He must not look back at the place as he leaves with her (since it's a place of great beauty). He attempts to do this but invetably fails and his wide, the camp, the whole world he just visited vanishes like a mirage. All that's left is a big open empty cavern. So he goes back through the tunnels and leaves the mountains to return to his tribe. He's is deeply sad but recounts the tail of visiting this place and becomes famous for it. The place was later identified as the land of the dead by the tribe. Interestingly enough beneath the supposed mountain range there are stories told of explorers findings vast underground cave networks and even a supposed city. Not sure how true they are but I've always wanted to see for myself as there's a great deal of strange stories about these mountains.

[@rishikeshwagh]

Can you tell me where this Indian story is found and what is it called?

[@danirving]

There are also similarities between the story of Lot fleeing Sodom and the Orpheus Myth. In both stories the protagonist is told not to look behind them as they flee and in both cases the wife perishes. This suggests that the story of Sodom and Gomorrah should be read as a tale of escape from the underworld as well.

[@Kinuhbud]

Every story in the Bible is an allegory so that sounds about right! Here's the real kicker--the protagonist is YOU in each story. They're all psychological dramas.

[@feandil666]

the bible writers lived in a place at the crossing of many culture and nations, so they built a myth that "borrowed" from everywhere. the bible was written after Homer.

[@Kinuhbud]

@@feandil666 true they're from a crossroads... but pretty sure the authors and jews were around before homer wrote his shit bro... the bible is magickal and beyond whatever homer wrote...

[@feandil666]

@@Kinuhbud they're just hacks who copied the babylonian myths mostly. the bible is pretty shit compared to other myths, badly written, very confused and inconsistent. And their god is a freaking psychopath. And yeah the old testament is accepted to have been written starting from the 7th century BC, after the return from Babylon, so after Homer.

[@metoo3342]

@@Kinuhbud Genesis was written around 600 BCE and Homer had already been dead for centuries by then

[@Brandon-a-writer]

Anyone who finishes the Mahabharita and can follow all the complex lines of kings and potential kings throughout that story, my hat is off to you. I really enjoyed the story, also the Ramayana!

[@ronagoodwell2709]

Schopenhauer read a couple of pages of the Upanishads every night before bed for most of his adult life.

[@Brandon-a-writer]

​@@ronagoodwell2709 Yes, and from what I recall, he believed that Eastern religion and myth was going to become much more important in the near-future, in the 19th and 20th century, as he thought that the Upanishads and Bhagavad-Gita were more subtle and sublime in their understanding of 'The Supreme'. I have two of Schopenhauer's works, The World as Will and Idea, and the World as Will and Representation. He often gets pegged as a excellence, but I don't think of him as much a personal pessimist so much as a touch fatalist. It's been some time since I worked on my book The Private Life of a Philosopher, which looked at the philosophy of David Hume, Spinoza, Descartes, Soren Kierkegaard, John Locke, Plato (and Socrates of course), Epicurus, John Stuart Mill, Aristotle, Confucius, Albert Camus, Rousseau, Voltaire, Nietzsche, Laozi, Arthur Schopenhauer, Tolstoy, Zhuangzi, Immanuel Kant, Martin Heidegger (What is Called Thinking?) Wittgenstein, Hegel, Karl Marx, Siddhartha Gautama (the Buddha), Archimedes, Johannes Kepler, Bertrand Russell, Diderot, Thomas Aquinas, Marcel Proust (yes, he is a novelist - but a philosopher at heart), Dostoevsky (ditto), Tolstoy, Leibniz, Hobbes, Thomas Paine (the Age of Reason), Moore (Utopia), Jean Paul Sartre, Marcus Aurelias, Noam Chomsky (for his work in linguistics) Ralph Waldo Emerson, Carl Sagan, Sigmund Freud (in reference to the Future of an Illusion, e Rat Man and Other Cases), Charles Darwin (a so-called ‘natural philosopher’), Isaac Newton (ditto) Alexis de Tocqueville, Sun Tzu, Montesquieu, and Cicero. The work ended with an analysis of Seneca's beautiful work 'On the Shortness of Life' (if I am recalling this correctly). In the book I attempted to show what their thinking was when it came to certain issues, as well as what their lives were like to the extent it could be known. Suffice to say, of all my published works, this did not find its place among them, as after having a back and forth with a number of publishers, I decided to just release it on my site. I have a copy around here somewhere if anyone reading might be interested in a comparative look at some of history's greatest writers and thinkers, their daily lives, commonalities and differences.

[@Brandon-a-writer]

@@ronagoodwell2709 I read the Jatakas to my son every night before he goes to sleep. :)

[@Fitman2004]

@@Brandon-a-writer Did you see mahabharatha as a physical war / war happening outside of mind? Or did you understand them as Sage Vyasa intended, ie not to give philosophy but to find philosophy or to motivate to do so. Were you able to untie the thread of philosophy which was presented as stories in Mahabharatha and Ramayana?

[@Brandon-a-writer]

@@Fitman2004 I always thought that they could be seen as philosophical, like the Bhagavad-gita could represent the war within but I've not seen any other way to understand.

[@jfjoubertquebec]

15:28 In order to test cultural proximity, if 87 similarities were found between the Greek and Hindu text.... Well... a good test would be to compare those stories with stories that are thought not culturally related and see how many random coincidences there would be.

[@anchalshrotriya323]

The Mahabharata war lasted 18 days, not 14 days. A great video! Subbed! ☺️

[@Crecganford]

Thank you!

[@DareToWonder]

The Greek myths are like super heroes story. No one remembers who made Batman, but they remember that Frank Miller is the most famous one who did.

[@Crecganford]

I like that analogy :)

[@yaruqadishi8326]

Regardless man and kind demigods and other powerful creatures. But, that's it.

[@peterfireflylund]

@Cannabis Dreams how many know that Bob Kane was really Robert Kahn? How many have heard of Bill (Milton) Finger?

[@Szujhinzu]

Bob Kane is the better analogy, as his name is shown wherever Batman appears, but Batman wasn't Kane's original idea tho.

[@rishibasnet9788]

One that is most strikingly parallel with Orpheus-Eurydice is the Indian legend of the savitri-syatavan, however, the gender role has been reversed and unlike Greek and native American myth, Savitri successfully brings back her dead husband. So, the universality of the plot of the story begs the question of some sort of inter cultural exchange or a common origin to these tales.

[@funkyfiss]

Ancient Greece and ancient India do share a history. Starting off With the "Dionysiaca". Yes, the epic poem was written in Rome by Nonnos but the story itself is as old as any other Greek myth and wasnt the invention of Nonnos. The Indians themselves also say that Dionysus and Greeks did come to India and stayed for a while before going back. Of course there is also a big connection with trade that goes back thousands of years and during Alexander the Greats time there were several cities established by Greeks in India. There of course was the Greko indian kingdom or the Yavana kingdom that existed next to india for a couple hundred years ect... Greece and India have thousands of years of history together.

[@rishikeshwagh]

@@funkyfiss There were Buddhist Greek kingdoms too!

[@funkyfiss]

@@rishikeshwagh Yes, there were. Called the Yavanna kingdom. And Greco Bactrian (Afghanistan) kingdoms too.

[@jmaico]

I just finished reading the Mahabharata for the first time, and my first reaction was exactly what your premise is here! So glad you presented this

[@Oleksa-Derevianchenko]

I read some articles by Vaso Abayev, a Soviet specialist in folklore formation and ancient religions, recently. There he shows parallels between epic poems of Greeks and Ossetians (they have a unique and well-researched epic of the Narts). In particular, he showed the conflict between the 'warrior hero' and the 'shaman hero' archetypes. The shamanic type of heroes relies on trickery and adaptation when it comes to fighting, their foes are usually very strong but rather dumb creatures, impersonating the powers of nature. It's common for such heroes to dress up in animal's skin (like Heracles, but in his case it's a relict, and many more) or use an animalistic resemblance of things to achieve something (Ulysses made up a Trojan horse plan) - symbolically shaman heroes get the power of nature in such a way. The warrior hero type is a later reconsideration of the idea of what it takes to be a heroe. This type has superhuman strength and goes on their foes head on.

[@MythopoeicNavid]

Another interesting parallel with Orpheus is how in the Orphic Argonautica, Apollonious of Rhodes retells Circe (quite possibly an earlier encounter from her Odyssey appearance, no doubt inspired by Homer) and mentions Herakles' travels to India. Excellent channel -- as a classicist myself (aiming towards a Master's in comparative literature and mythology) these discussions on PIE myths is simply amazing. A minor pronunciation note: The end 'a' in most of the Indian nouns aren't vocal, so 'Mahabharata' would be 'Mahabharat' or 'Magnificent Bharat' (mahaa being "huge" and Bharat being another name for ancient India).

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for watching and your support. And yes, my pronunciations aren't always spot on as I whizz between many cultures and times, and so thank you for spotting this :)

[@nutin321]

@@Crecganford I learned long ago, as a native Greek speaker, that my modern pronunciation of Greek words are only distantly related to how the ancients said those mouth noises. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that in ancient times, that “a” was pronounced and not silent. I’ve given up on “correct” pronunciation. We understand your point.

[@WasatyPanKazimierz]

4:25 On what evidence you base the notion of a "Mycenaean Empire" and that it wasn't Greek? This sounds odd. I was tought that there existed something we today dubb "Mycenaean civilization", consisting of many urban sites with strongholds, suggesting many independent or semi-independed seats of power rather than a centralized empire, and that it was, as it were, "distinctively Greek", at least in its later periods (the Linear B script was used to write down a form of late Bronze Age Greek language, was it not?).

[@charitimesser1363]

I was so surprised and delighted to hear from North American myths, especially the Tuolumne Yokuts! I was born and raised in Central CA and the Yokuts are a local tribe, and Tuolumne is up in the mountains! Thank you so much for these great videos!

[@Crecganford]

Thanks for watching and sharing!

[@kostascharalampidis3698]

Myceneaens are Greeks. Linear B is their script and it's proven to be Greek.Also, the term Myceneaen Empire is not something that I think really makes sense. There was no central administration to my knowledge, although different Myceneaen Kingdoms knew they are of a common nation.

[@3rdeye671]

The Myceneans are Achaeon Greeks sometimes called Argive Greeks. They were overcome by the Dorian Greeks who became Spartans occupying the area where the Mycenean capital once stood. Both groups co-existed with the Achaeons occupying the rough mountainous region of Acadia and eventually they all just became Greeks. The Helots were part of the Achaeon population.

[@kostascharalampidis3698]

@Cannabis Dreams who do you refer to? Myceneans re not a tribe, they are a culture. The name was not used by the people themselves to declare their tribe. There are several tribes, but all are Greeks, speak Greek and realize they are related , although they live under different kings.

[@dobgood]

@@3rdeye671 Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any archaeological evidence to support the stories of a Dorian migration or invasion after the fall of the Mycenean palace centers. After many years of studying Linear B, John Chadwick and Carol Thomas reached the conclusion that the people called Dorians and their dialect had been in the Peloponnese all along, which explains why it spread from southern Greece to Crete so early. This contradicts the history told by the ancient Greeks themselves, but Chadwick and Thomas might be correct.

[@3rdeye671]

@@dobgood yes that's feasible. I never mentioned any invasion though.

[@funkyfiss]

Yes, so are Minoans.

[@stephaniemcguire]

Just subscribed after watching your recent appearance on MythVision Podcast. Can't wait to get a chance to binge watch your videos.

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for your support, it is much appreciated :)

[@christeacher4994]

I loved the effort and I agree with the general argument about the underlying common substratum, but some points left me puzzled. For example, the claim that "by 776 BCE Greek mythology was complete, it was written down". As far as I know, at that point Greek stories were transmitted orally. The Greek alphabet we know ("Phoenician letters" as the Greeks called it) was but recently introduced and far from widespread all over Greece - this was a procedure that took a really long time. For the same reason, it's rather unlikely that "the Iliad was written in the later part of the 8th century BCE". From the little I know, few scholars challenge the established view that the epics, like Hesiod's Theogony, were written down at the end of the 6th century BCE. Moreover, I see some logical jumps, such as the argument that since the Orpheus story isn't mentioned by Homer, it must be a later addition to Greek mythology -the Epics were not meant to be a compendium that included all Greek myths. Also, the point that the Trojan War lasted fourteen years surprised me, because I was taught that it lasted "only" ten years. Stretching its duration in order to make it coincide with the events in the Indian epics rather undermines the argument. And in the phrase "the Greek Myths of Homer weren't so Greek, but were in fact Mycenaean"?, there seems to be an implication that Mycenaean were not Greeks, which I find a bit confusing. But again, I might have read the wrong books. Finally, would you consider adding to your About section your formal studies? Thank you for your thought provoking videos.

[@gstargeorgia]

Exactly what I thought!

[@israeltovar3513]

The story of Izanami and Izanagi, as told in the Japanese compilations, have similarities with some Greek stories. She dies in very different circumstances (childbirth), and Izanagi kills his son as revenge. However, Izanagi then travels to the underworld to get her back. He finds her, and she tells him there might be a chance, but it is dim. She has already eaten food cooked in the underworld, and that is a major hindrance (like Persephone). He also must not see her until they have reached the surface, if they are granted permission. He loses patience with the situation and lights a fire, and sees that she has become a corpse. Ashamed and furiously, she calls for spirits, monsters, and warriors from the underworld to kills him. He evades them, and like some Greek heroes, instead of outright fighting them, he distracts them with offerings to get his way out, and then places a huge stone on the entrance, to block Izanami herself, who was chasing him in the end. He then has to go through ritual cleansing. It also explains why people die, sort of: Izanami pronounces that each day she will kill and bring to the underworld a thousand people. Izanagi replies he will then breed one thousand and five hundred people, to offset her. It is not a close parallel, but the similarities are very interesting...

[@umwha]

I think that story very closely parallels many many stories, Greek and otherwise. I am fascinated that there is such a strong connection between Japan and Greece mythology wise. It must indicate a shared ancestry. I suspect that there was an eastern branch of the PIEs, that settled Japan. They were the Ainu , the ethnic indigenous Japanese who were known to physically resemble causasions a lot and they didn’t resemble modern Japanese much.

[@DanielKlein83]

Also, after Izanagi returned to the land of the living and washed himself, three major deities were born from his body parts. The goddess of the sun and god of the moon from his eyes and the god of storms from his nose. This somewhat resembles the PIE creation myth where a primordial being is killed and the world is created from his body parts.

[@CharlesOffdensen]

17:40 There are also non-Indo-European influences in the Iliad. Mary R. Bachvarova has written a book about this "From Hettite to Homer", where some stories from the Hurrians, Akadians, Sumerians (among others) are identical to some plot points in the Iliad. 20:15 btw notice how the soul here is not a separate from the body. This is very similar at least to some Indo-Europeans. This was the case in the Germanic and Norse religion.

[@nicolasbouyiouclis4726]

There wasn't nor is such thing as Indo-Europeans..ever!

[@TheLYagAmi]

You can still trace back the path of the Pandavas during their last voyage to the Himalayas in India through various temples that still exist marking their path. There’s also a story of how in their last pilgrimage a loyal dog followed them till the very end in the Himalayas and when asked if the last Pandava wanted to go to heaven. He refused to go without taking the dog with him due to its loyalty to him. This is the day where the loyalty of dogs is celebrated in north India and Nepal the day is called kukur Tihar and all dogs are pampered during this day.

[@6Haunted-Days]

Why do you keep insisting it’s from India? I don’t see that anywhere in the title nor what’s been said so far 🙄

[@TheLYagAmi]

@@6Haunted-Days the Mahabharata in the title is literally an ancient epic from india

[@timothygervais9036]

Stumbled upon your site a week ago and was very impressed by your passion for Teaching as well as sharing. I'm enjoying your videos, please keep up the great work and have a great time in doing so.

[@alexanderwilliams2459]

Love the video! One additional similarity between the Iliad and the Mahabharata that was partially mentioned here was the 100 sons of the "evil" king- Priam was noted as having 100 children, 50 sons and 50 daughters, in some parts of the Homeric tradition.

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for watching, and taking the time to comment. Yes, there are others and that is one I didn’t mention. The whole idea that these two books from very different cultures have those similarities still amazes me today. I hope you find other videos here enjoyable, and looking forward to more comments.

[@alexanderwilliams2459]

@@Crecganford Considering that some oral traditions can be passed down while maintaining accuracy for thousands of years, it seems at the very least plausible, if not probable, that many overlapping elements of myths and stories from different cultures have common sources, just as you suggest here. The idea that stories as old as the Orpheus myth you mention could have analogues going back as far as before even agriculture and villages is incredible to consider.

[@bengarver8155]

This Is one of the most fascinating channels.

[@Crecganford]

Thank you.

[@bengarver8155]

@Crecganford You're quite welcome. Growing up in a multi ethnic environment and just always being interested in stories, I've put some of this together. Albeit clumsily. In more a,"Near all civilizations started up near access to water so flood stories are universal. Or all families have contentious moments, and moments they come together for a common cause. Sacrifices are made and relationships strained. Dad pays the electric so "let there be light."lol Throughout time, much changes and much stays the same. The way you make it all fit is amazing and really gives me pause. To think it's this epic game of telephone through the centuries going back to possibly the beginning of language. Some stories enduring the test of time like great mountains of culture growing and weathering, changing slightly here and there but still all this time later you can see it. If you had someone who heard some of these stories when first told they likely could still recognize it. Maybe just.. Still, I can imagine this ancient individual thinking for a moment and saying "Yeah.. My dad told me that one." Amazing stuff. Sorry for running on, there but, it's truly awesome.

[@pamndz1]

We can’t turn the question around, because we know Alexander traveled with a copy of the Iliad and the Odyssey with him before he ever even reached India. Before then India was still a purely theoretical nation they have only ever heard myths of. That’s why Dionysius was said to have traveled to India because to them that was basically then end of the earth

[@vivek8172]

@@pamndz1 Lol, that gay king, died right at the sindh borders, Alexander vs porus, from where he returned.....maybe before returning they told Porus this stories, And porus(puru in india) must have been like.....Bruh, we know it, coz its our history, 😂😂😂😂 Jokes apart, check the archelogical reports about The Mahabharat findings ⚔️ It's Indian history.....You ignorant looters!!

[@initiationsauxrunes4689]

Did anyone read Felice Vinci ? His theory says that those events took place in the Baltic, before the nordic migration to the hellenic peninsula. He have some very interesting points.

[@orktv4673]

I recall that neither Achilles's immortality, nor his being dipped in the Styx by his heel, are mentioned in the Iliad. Am I missing something?

[@orktv4673]

@@TheDredConspiracy "In the few fragmentary poems of the Epic Cycle which describe the hero's death (i.e. the Cypria, the Little Iliad by Lesches of Pyrrha, the Aithiopis and Iliou persis by Arctinus of Miletus), there is no trace of any reference to his general invulnerability or his famous weakness at the heel. In the later vase paintings presenting the death of Achilles, the arrow (or in many cases, arrows) hit his torso." It would be nice is a scholar could weigh in, because apparently the story became standard later on (1st century AD), but before that there were several versions circulating around, both regarding Achilles's supposed immortality and his manner of death.

[@billyziggler1862]

11:10 you misrepresent “Zeus creating a war because he felt there were too many people on the earth” as the noticeable different “Zeus was asked by Gaia to create the war because she felt there were too many people.” Why? Because it’s easier to make it seem like the same as the Vedic story if you change it subtlety

[@xiuhcoatl4830]

The idea remains, which proves the connection between both traditions.

[@stephenkneller6435]

Wait, the Mycenaean language was proven to be an archaic form of Greek, an Indo-European language. If we are talking about Mycenaean mythology, we are talking about Indo-European mythology. Sure, pre Indo-European myths may have been added to the Indo-European mythology. But this is different than saying Mycenaean mythology is different than Greek mythology. They are from the same source. At best, one could say Mycenaean mythology added some non-Indo-European changes. But the core of Mycenaean mythology was still Indo-European.

[@metigame1450]

Yeah yeah even the monkeys are Greek Greek Greek

[@pannobhasa]

There apparently was a Trojan War in which Greek-speaking Greeks fought Trojans and others, so it seems extremely likely that at least *some* of the Iliad is authentically Greek. That elements from older myths would be worked in is also fairly likely though.

[@sarantis1995]

@@metigame1450 if the monkeys lived in Greece and wrote in Greek and established the culture and religion of the greek world then yeah, that makes them greek too. Greek, whatever, is just a label. If a peoples share all these cultural elements they're the same peoples that's it, however you wanna call it

[@Ulyssestnt]

Achilles reminds me of Baldur with the immortality and one weakness thing. As for Orpheus,couldnt have europeans have transmitted that myth before 1929?

[@Crecganford]

The Orpheus myth was being told at least 15,000 years ago (see my Ferryman video)... and Baldur is a curious deity, with a complex backstory, but yes, the one weakness is a motif that is common in many myths. Thanks for watching, and for commenting :)

[@p.mrtynjy]

Brilliant ! Have been looking for such a comparative analysis forever ! Thank you :)

[@CatastrophicDisease]

Thank you for the fascinating video. I’m curious your thoughts on how these myths interacted with pre-Indo European cultures in each of these areas. For example, I know that much of Indian religion and mythology came out of a mix of Indo-European and pre-IE (the descendants of the Indus Valley, likely Dravidian) traditions - do we know to what extent the same was true in Greece? Did the Minoans (or other pre-IE peoples) influence Mycenaean culture as much as the Indus Valley influenced Vedic culture?

[@Crecganford]

Greece is a complicated scenario, and nothing is simple. There were Myceneans, who were IE influenced coming in from the south, but then new IE tribes came in from the north, and then the new "states" decided to trade with India and Persia, bring back further developed IE myths. My answer is, it's complicated. And probably deserves a video or two so as to explain this.

[@charleshulsey3103]

I clicked this thinking "I know these stories, I'm not sitting here for 29:50!" Half an hour later, and I'm glad I did 👍

[@dusanrodic138]

12:30 can someone tell me who is on the left photo?

[@Crecganford]

That would a painting of Paris from the Iliad.

[@dusanrodic138]

@@Crecganford Thanks , that cap reminds me of "Phrygian cap" , same cap that wore "Captured Ilyrian" from Napoli... I tried to find photo of him on english search , but i can't find it. I also tried to sent you link , but youtube removed comment . So try to find photo if you have time... So , i can make a theory that people of Troy had some cultural common with Ilyrians... Maybe the name of epic "Iliad" was from their name - "Ilyrians"

[@mytube12]

There are peacocks in Greek mythology, often associated with Hera! But peacocks are native to India! So there's chance that the Greeks took stories from India!

[@Crecganford]

They did, many stories and ideas, and it is why Greek mythology is a "generation" removed from standard Indo-European mythology. Which makes it complicated and fascinating at the same time.

[@mweskamppp]

There was some trading for longer times. Lapislazuli and bronze from Afghanistan to egypt f.e. at least since 2000 bc, mining there since more than 6000 years . Why not also some peacocks to some kings or hanging gardens?

[@mweskamppp]

@Ευτοπία Iumaser Well, according to archeology, historians and DNA analysis of people from several millenia, the indo european language and mythology about their pantheon has its origin about 6000 years ago around the caucasus mountains. People tamed the horse, and moved with their herds into the steppes that stretch from today ukraine to the altai mountains. About 5500 years ago they moved into central europe replacing native people to some extent that mos probably died of the first plague endemy. The plague or pest moved with the indo-europeans. in the east they moved to the altai but also south, mixed with iranian farmers about 5000 to 4000 years ago and then moved into north india. they reached east india about 3500 years ago. The greek and also hindi still kept the indoeuropean myths and pantheon with some differences. There are some language theories that explain similarities of grammar and words especially in connection with horses, wagons and numbers and basic things like father, mother etc. You can also find comparative analyses of the the myths and pantheons if you want.

[@mweskamppp]

@Ευτοπία Iumaser -I am no expert myself. For the gods i have one example at hand. The god with the hammer. In skandinavia Thor, In India Indra. - the native people in europe were first the western hunter gatherer (all brown skin with all blue eyes according to DNA analysis). 9000 years ago early farmers moved to europe coming from today anatolia and the levante, mixing with the western hunter gatherer. From 3500bc on the yamnaya from the steppe (indoeuropean languages) and genetically a mix of people from the caucasus and eastern hunter gatherer moved into europe and mixed into the existing populations. (islands of left over ancient languages disappeared in historical times except for the basque) Today europeans are all from these three strains. Baltic people up to 30% western hunter gatherer, skandinavians up to 80% Yamnaya, Sardinians up to 90% early farmers. All others are between. -there is a second hypothesis that originates the origin of the indoeuropean languages in armenia from where it moved already with the early farmers into europe while the yamnaya are a later eastern branch of. As far as i know this idea became less probable after late archeologigal and DNA findings. - in india i am not that sure. I would say the early population were the indus culture people who are close to the drawidian. Later the Yamnaya/iranian farmers moved into northern India. The kastes would reflect different mixing percentages and were kind of frozen in this state by a then developed culture. But that is my non expert opinion. -That the world is 6000 years old is a stupid idea of some religious extremists. - Numbers in ancient writings were very often made up to claim "Its was huge" or "it existed from the beginning of time". - There is no farming before 10000 bc. There might have been people who used seeds of grass but they did not do farming with plowing and seeding. This kind of gathering is also known from native australians and other groups.

[@tomasverissimo-u6p]

@Ευτοπία Iumaser Eu gosto de como você fala dos gregos antigos, você cultua os deuses gregos?

[@raginald7mars408]

... as a German Biologist -I vividly remember when I first received the German Book about Greek Saga - and how life long impressed I am. As a Scientist I wonder how old stories were transmitted in oral telling like Grand parents to Grand children - like the Aboriginal “DreamTime” - we lost almost all of the oral tradition and the texts we have today are corrupted and fragmented. This is a force driving us ever more into the synthetic Techno Sphere - where Nothing can be found. An Extinction event...

[@Szujhinzu]

And yet this " synthetic techno sphere" provides us with analytical tools and methods which help us to restore data that has already been lost. The stories were already corrupted a long time ago, but now we can bring some back, and even find out about their origins and connections we never even thought to be possible before.

[@raginald7mars408]

@@Szujhinzu restoring lost Data - excellent. Genius!

[@rishikeshwagh]

Another similarity between the Iliad/Odessey and Mahabharat is that both Achilles and Krishna die because of being shot in the heel by an arrow. Yet another similarity would be between Hearacles and Krishna or (Hare Krishna). Both fought and killed huge serpeants as kids.

[@stephenmissal8260]

OMG...you got me again. Your channel is a treasure of information!

[@Crecganford]

Thank you

[@leerass]

Are you familiar with the book ‘The Baltic origins of Homer’s epic tales’ by Felice Vinci? I think you would find it very interesting and fits very well in the picture you are painting here. In it he makes a compelling argument that at least part of the origin of these stories trace back to the Baltic Sea instead of the Mediterranean. He argues this by looking at descriptions of the topography and weather in the epics and also looks at names of peoples, areas and local stories around the Baltic today. I can highly recommend this book to you!

[@Crecganford]

Thank you I will put that on my reading list :)

[@Crecganford]

@Ario James3 I'm not aware of this, do you have links to any papers?

[@Crecganford]

@Ario James3 thank you for replying :)

[@Crecganford]

@Ario James3 I haven't had a chance to read up on them in any detail, but have looked at several images and they do seem similar to the style of the Scandinavian petroglyphs. But similar designs do not mean they have the same source, but it is intriguing, and I will look at more when time allows.

[@sallyreno6296]

Wonderful book. I'll second your recommendation.

[@bart-janvanlangen]

As you've spoken about the parallels between the Mahabharata and the Illiad it makes me really curious if there are any similarities with the Odysee as well.

[@Crecganford]

Yes there are, but I’m not sure they are so obvious. Some of the stories from both have a very early IE origin. And thanks for watching too!

[@Fitman2004]

@@Crecganford Whats your take on Aryans being indigenous to India? Genetics apart, Aryan Philosophy must have its origins in India. As in rigveda, indra traditionally is not a god, but a deity who represents a philosophical element. If taken as the sages intended them to be, then it is clear that the philosophy in rigved is missing in other civilizations. They only practiced the stories and took them as it is. Whereas being an Indian, i am cent percent sure that western interpretation of rigved was mostly biased. They mistake rigvedic people to be pastoral / nomadic.

[@DogWalkerBill]

Sp, 15,000 years. Still, we know there was at least one city of Troy. And places called Ilium/Wilusa truly existed in reality. I hold that it's very probable that there was some reality to Agamemnon, Menelaus, Odysseus, Achilles & Patroclus and others. The may be very mythologized, but there was some reality behind the myth.

[@shanegooding4839]

In the 1st century CE Dio Chrysostom reports that Homer's poetry was even being sung in India. Were these similarities the cause of this statement?

[@arghyashubhshiv3239]

There are two theories regarding that. One is that it was literally the Iliad that he was referring to. The other is that he misunderstood the Mahabharata as a translation of Iliad, owing to the similarities between both of their narratives.

[@elihinze3161]

Wow, I never knew about the similarities between the Mahabharata and the Iliad!! Really makes you think

[@Crecganford]

I know, when I first read about this I was amazed!

[@jeff4rams]

Hi Jon, I have to say first I love your shirt! Second, thank you so much for all of your videos. I recently found your channel and absolutely love it. You are a great wealth of information and I find it so interesting how all these myths are the same but a little different depending on the place and culture.

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for watching, and your comments, they are all appreciated.

[@jeff4rams]

@@Crecganford Hi Jon, thank you and do you sell your shirts? If so can you please send me the link. Thanks again from Jeff Cannon in Oregon. I figured you would like to know that you are reaching all over.

[@jamesc2201]

Have you ever read any of Edith Hamiltons works on classic literature? If you have, how do you view her work? I used to read her stuff so much as a teenager.

[@Crecganford]

One of the biggest challenges in research is making sure the translation is good, assuming you're reading a translated text (which you often are). So every version read allows you to get a better picture of what it probably meant, and so from that perspective I think Edith did some important work.

[@igor-yp1xv]

Are there other epics that are conected to the homeric ones? Maybe in Scandinavia or Middle East

[@Crecganford]

Or perhaps Homeric tales that are connect to other Epics? There are a few, and I will touch on them every now and then when I discuss specific myths.

[@bencopeland3560]

So if you can find all these cognates in the stories, I think the next step is to write a story that is a reconstructed original history/myth. Maybe a collaboration with Dan Davis?

[@Crecganford]

I have two books currently being written, but are still a couple of years away. I hope these will be what you are hoping for.

[@johnkelly3886]

The sleep test (to conquer death) after the swim (to retrieve the plant of eternal youth) is reminiscent of the sleep test in the Gilgamesh.

[@jimparsons6803]

An interesting set of theories. I think that much of the Iliad is a literary version of a real event. Perhaps the Odyssey as well, I say this last as Jacque Cousteau made a PBS documentary in which he went around the Mediterranean and looked for the various spots mentioned there in. And he found most of those spots.

[@mememan1546]

The oddessey takes place near the end of the bronze-age, maybe it's a depiction of the bronze-age collapse?

[@aenesidemus8819]

A fun fact regarding Homer: a Roman poet by the name of Quintus Ennius, who lived in the 2th century, was reputed to have called himself the reincarnated Homer. Perhaps we have a Homer dwelling in our lands today as well? :D

[@mver191]

Quentin Tarantino.

[@susanmcdonald9088]

Yes, epics important, and Romans had none so they borrowed the Greek. Well, they had a she-wolf suckling twins, and Janus. Otherwise they bought Greek cultures wholesale. And Etruscan. After all, volcanic activity kept Rome a late-comer to the stage... not that Greece & Thera didn't have their share of earthquakes & a major, major Atlantis-type eruption... And Virgil's story of the Trojan Aneus heading to Italy to found Rome, Virgil wanted to destroy the poem, but Augustus saved it...

[@Tybold63]

Homer Simpson ?😆

[@dobgood]

This is good stuff, chock full of good info. I do, however, have one small quibble. I don't think "The Iliad" should be described as a "compilation" of myths. One of the striking things about "The Iliad" is what's not in it! The apple of discord, the judgment of Paris, the courtship of Helen and the oath of Tyndareus, the abduction of Helen, the sacrifice of Iphigenia at Aulis, the first nine years of the war, the Achilles heel, the death of Achilles, the fetching of Philoctetes, the Trojan Horse, etc., etc. The bulk of the poem is about six days in the last year of the war. It's quite possible that most those other stories postdate "The Iliad" and that, as Emily D.T. Vermeule cautioned in 1984, classicists and archaeologists should be prepared to discover that "The Iliad" vastly predates the "Trojan war."

[@TheKlaun9]

One of the greatest mysteries of our time is how such a video can have below 100k views 2 years in

[@prestonjones1653]

So how does this connect to the historical site of Troy? Was the Mahabarata really not set in India but in modern Turkey?

[@Crecganford]

I'm sure there was some significant event involving Troy, and it influenced "Homer's" writings, but the story itself, Homer's whole work seems to have been built on a far older set off stories and myth, and these were almost certainly not based in Anatolia/Turkey.

[@dannylazzo4293]

The analysis is interesting, but it overlooks that the illiad and the odyssey are only the end of the Trojan War Epic. I believe there are actually 3 or 4 other portions/books that describe the beginning of the trojan war such as how helen became the wife of paris. And the how Helen had a whole host of suitors that wanted to marry her before paris even plays a part in the myth. Not mentioning that troy is real and archaeologists have found portions of the trojan horse

[@samreh6156]

There are a bunch of Troy layered on each other, like an onion, and it's unclear which layer is the Troy the Illiad is about. Can you provide a link concerning the discovery of the Trojan horse?

[@alexgabriel5423]

From what point of view is the Iliad composed, that of the Achaeans or that of the Trojans? Or is it a back & forth Achaean & Trojan point of view?

[@manitdoshi]

the battle of the ten kings in the rigveda is said to be the predecessor to the Mahabharata. can you touch on that? ik it's a old old video

[@Crecganford]

I may be able to talk more about this in a future video as I want to remake some of these older ones.

[@manitdoshi]

@@Crecganford oh cool thanks man :) I'll look forward to that.

[@luciabaschirotto429]

Does a reconstructed proto-version of the original siberian Orpheus myth exist?

[@Crecganford]

Yes, and I do talk about this I think in my Ferryman of the Dead video. So have a look for that.

[@jstock2317]

Sources for the Mahabharata/Homer connection? Didn't see any specifically in the description.

[@Crecganford]

You mean apart from the books themselves? There has been a huge amount written about this, and so it should be very easy to find.

[@jstock2317]

@@Crecganford Ah ok! Just from a quick look it didn't seem like it, thanks!

[@Theodisc]

Mon dieu, you or your image stock source censored out the infant Achilles' nether regions. Why? This is just an agalma, it's not kiddy porn, nor are we living in the XIXth c.?

[@Crecganford]

Alas KZbin have restricted a number of my videos for showing Greek statues etc, and so I have to take preemptive action.

[@Theodisc]

@@Crecganford UNDERSTOOD! Btw upon reading the titles of your books behind you and hearing (what turns out to be your habitual) "welcome" from you at the start of your vid I immediately subbed your channel. This is the kind of environment I gain pleasure learning from. Thank thee 👍🏽🧿💙

[@Crecganford]

@@Theodisc Thank you, and those books do change around a lot if you like trying to spot the difference :)

[@Theodisc]

@@Crecganford I saw that! I'm the kind of guy who tilts his head sideways when I see intellectuals' bookshelves in interviews and vlogs in order to see what they might be reading. Gets me inside their ways of thinking a little, I think👍🏽 SUGGESTION Q?: This _sujet_ I'm asking you about may be a little outside of your _métier_ but here we go. Joan Breton Connelly (a classicist who is on the side of us greeks) wrote an excellent and erudite book called "The Parthenon Enigma A Journey Into Legend". In the appendices she tackled where the stolen agalmata should belong (she favours repatriation)giving her reasons why. I also see that the British newspaper The Guardian has now changed its stance on the marbles to being repatriated to Hellas. Coming from Aotearoa/NZ myself we have become extremely culturally aware down here in regards to other peoples, and our own, cultures, given our history here. How do you feel about the repatriation of other peoples' cultural relics and objects from museums? Perhaps you could make us a video about this as moving into the XXIst c. this issue is becoming more topical. Thank you. 🏛

[@Crecganford]

@@Theodisc now that is a fantastic question. I am a member of the British Museum, and I must admit I love seeing it's exhibits. But 99% of people won't know the difference between a replica and the real thing, so we should make a copy and send back the originals, on the proviso the country is safe to accept them (for example Syrian artefacts would not be safe to send back right now). That makes sense to me as we do need a way to allow ALL museums to display any items, or excellent replicas of items irrespective of where they come from. That way as many people as possible can get a better understanding of history.

[@indra2981]

Deep and diligent research, infotainment at its finest.

[@differous01]

The elements of Homer were "not Greek", but they defined what meant to BE Greek (ie. 'Hellenists'), while the narrative culture they emerged from is older than writing/any known language. Genevieve Von Petzinger identifies 32 abstract symbols in rock art, reproduced since 40,000BP, spanning 2 ice ages, and found on all continents bar Antarctica.

[@Crecganford]

I take it you commented before you watched the video?

[@differous01]

@@Crecganford I was responding to 28:45 "the tales in these epics were not ORIGINALLY Greek" (my empahasis cos I misquoted as "not Greek").

[@yllidomi2772]

👍

[@dantanner6631]

These are amazing so glad i found these thank you for your wisdom

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for watching :)

[@1Tulipan23]

Thanks for taken up this

[@scotthcomyns3426]

Joe Campbell's work talks about this...does our brain chemistry have something to do with these patterns of myth,ie "stoned ape theory"?

[@Crecganford]

I’m not sure about the stoned ape theory, but I do believe such states helped influence farming 12k -14k years ago.

[@nara808]

A war between Mycenae and Hittites? occured, but the monsters and journeys are based on PIE stuff.

[@yaruqadishi8326]

Hittites are Indo-European

[@jeff4rams]

I would like to know how many of the native American stories are the same as the Norse or Greek myths. Thank you.

[@Crecganford]

That is a very difficult question to answer, due to the number of tribes/cultures we are talking about. But I am aware of many stories being similar, different motifs and myths as a whole. When I have more time I shall look into this as a project. Thank you for the question, it is a very good one.

[@jeff4rams]

@@Crecganford Thank you Jon and I'll be sure to have my cup of tea on the ready for your next video.

[@alexandertiberius1098]

Do you think the "bridge that moves up and down while a person is crossing it and stops when one gets off" in the native american myth is supposed to represent ups and downs of life, the ripe and the ruin, or is it just a description of a rope bridge? 😅

[@Crecganford]

I think it is just a bridge that is ready to throw you off.

[@ulrichkristensen4087]

The forensic investigation of these stories are fascinating, there are many similarities, i am thinking of the story Prometheus, which is also mirrored in ancient indian script, do you think it is part of a larger Indo European myth basin or something older ?

[@Goosebear77]

My family are from Sri Lanka, I was born in London, England. My Dad's side are Hindu so I grew up with hearing about the Mahabharata and the Ramayana from my Dad and visits to Hindu Temples in London and Sri Lanka. I read an English translation of the Ramayana several years ago and wondered if there was a connections with the Greek epics as they were so similar. I'm glad found this channel. Recently I have been looking up the Mahabharata and the Ramayana and learning much more about them. The Astronomical information contained in the Indian epics is immense. Archeoastronomy is a fantastic tool for dating structures, monuments, stories and myths. The two sources of Hindu History/Mythology are Oral and Written. Based on the Astronomical information, the oral sources points to a much earlier time period and origin for the events of the Indian epics. As I say I'm still learning about all this so the comparisons are really interesting and informative. I'm pretty new this channel and really enjoying the information and presentation. Great brain food. Thanks.

[@tony232cool]

Homer wrote the Iliad in Illyrian language(doric dialect), however the mythology in the poems are much older and should probably have been translated in other languages. It is a matter of time before they resurface.

[@alexgabriel5423]

Troy was a vassal of Hittites...correspondence between the two exists on clay tablets. Lycian is now known, alphabet & vocabulary.

[@arghyashubhshiv3239]

Hey! Nice video! By the way, a serious rival of the "Greeks influenced Mahabharata" theory is "common PIE origin" theory. I read a review by NJ Allen of the work cited in the video, which said that Chandogya Upanishad 7.1.2 in India (composed around 8BCEto 6BCE, which is pre-Alexander), says that there existed a "huge volume of itihasa-purana" in India. "Itihasa-Purana" refers to mythological tales of heroes and stuff. It means that elements of a "proto-Mahabharata" already existed. Couple this with the fact that Mahabharata is 8 times the size of Iliad and Odyssey, it doesn't take much to realize that the fact that entire Mahabharata is based on Greek mythology is a bit weird. Also similar to the Hisarlik study, you might want to research on "historicity of Mausala Parva" in Mahabharata, which (coupled with existence of a Vrishni cult) might suggest some similar historic events in India which influenced MBh (similar to Troy being a historic event).

[@breakaleg10]

Often legends and myths are straightforward, we have elements of each that are easily explained and can be added to what we know from archaeology and in some cases historical documents. But with the Iliad and the Odyssey we have a total mischmasch of everything. Some of the elements in the Iliad can be explained with misremembered stories from actual events, like the kings of Troy and the wars, but all the myth in the mix makes it hard to find out what is true and what is mythical. The core seems to be the myth you spoke of, sprinkled with legendary memories of what the people around Homer thought of as a glorious past, the Hittites seemed to have another opinion of the same events though, according to documents found about events about 100 years before the earthquake destroyed the Troy we think is the one depicted in the Iliad.

[@DISTurbedwaffle918]

Have you ever read "The Baltic Origins of Homer's Epic Tales" by Felice Vinci? I just got the book, but it sounds right up your alley if you haven't, whether you end up agreeing with Vinci or not.

[@mackenziealdridge1634]

Does the existence of Hisarlik support or refute the argument of the epics being created before Homer's time?

[@lidiabano4698]

what about ORAL epic traditions of north balkans?

[@Crecganford]

I’m not so familiar with their stories, but I am slowly building up a library of information. And when I have enough I will do something.

[@knarfmelliw]

Fascinating! And there is new data which show genetic links between Paleo-Siberians and native Americans on the one hand and Paleo-Siberians and Europeans on the other. This fits perfectly well into your narrative, doesn't it?

[@Gmiaoulis]

1. The Iliad and Odyssey are not stories = myths "Μύθος" they are legends = "Θρύλοι" which means tales based on real events but chanced by folks. This is how the Greeks they called them, for 2 millenniums and that alone should give you a hint about your statements. 2. Myceneans were Greeks no need to expaned on that, calling them something else it is just wrong. 3. There was never a Mycenean empire, the geography of Greece didn't allow that for the means of the time. You can call it more like a joint force with Mycenean king at the top. 4. At the Hellenic Peninsula and the all around area there were many Greek Tribes and Pelasgic ones (propably pre-greek and either indoeuropean or pre-indoeuropean). Most of them joined during the Dark Ages of ancient Greece. 5. Stating that the Homeric Poems were not of Greek origin is just u n t h i n k a b l e. Were should I even begin? Troy : the names? we are finding some of them in mesopotamian tablets. The place? It is found and Homer describes it perfectly. The greek cities that send their ships? Some of them still exist. Troy - Wilusa - Iliad was a real city and it was sucked with a harsh and unforgivable way and that is something that the ancient Greeks kept with regret in their memory. Odyssey : It propably describes the aftermath of the Bronze Age collapse. When the Greeks joint the People of Sea, Greek cities were destroyed and the Greeks paid for their greed (at least in peoples collective memory). There are some scholars believing that the places Odysseus went to, were the places that the Sea People originated from. These things indicate that the poems are not history (obviously) but they are based on real facts. But this topic is to big for a comment. 6. As far as the main stracture of the story. You can find tales of love, war and great expeditions all over the world in every time because they facinate people and their imagination. This is the 3rd video of yours that I watch and I have to say that there are times that you don't face the reality of the scientific facts but you are joining facts to end up were you feel like to. I don't want to offend you or enything, but you should be more carefull.

[@barbarossarotbart]

And you should add, that Mycene was not the most important city state of that period, that was Thebes. Mycene was just the home of the leader of the coalition against Troy.

[@timdecleire1792]

This is SO INTERESTING !!! Thanks ! Could the Indian religious texts be the oldest ones ? (And therefore at the origin of all indo-european myths?) What about the relationship that Achilles and Patroclus had, which may have been more than just a friendship, possibly romantic ? Is this mirrored in the Indian tradition as well ? Is there any place for homosexual behavior in Indian myth, I wonder? Could you maybe do an overview of this in historical mythology? Great stuff. Intersting mysteries to ponder about ! :P Again, super interesting and very well explained !!! Thanks again :D

[@Crecganford]

Yes, I'll add it to my To Do list, as that's a good idea. Thank you for watching and for taking the time to comment.

[@pavelurteaga5315]

man ... you are doing an extraordinary work

[@Crecganford]

Thank you

[@ishetrying]

I really enjoyed this one. Thank you.

[@Crecganford]

And thank you for watching.

[@SuperBjanka]

Brilliant. I dont think that the coalitions of some unrelated stories to the Iliad and Marabratha prove these texts are pre Indo European. But it proves that the stories coalating with stories on the American continent are pre indo euperan.

[@Crecganford]

I agree, a lot probably aren't, but I was trying to get the point across that the Greek Epics aren't Greek, and slowly introducing the idea or understanding of the intial PIE division of Centum and Satem, as this is so significant in how cultures evolved. However, there is so much more on this subject I can talk about and I do try to make these videos 10 minutes (most are 2 hours belong before I edit), and I wish I could have all my watchers in an all day lecture :) but I will slowly cover all these questions in the coming weeks and months. Thanks for watching, and the feedback, it's good to know people really listen to what I say and have good feedback, it's appreciated

[@pointsnorth3924]

Robert Graves White Goddess is a useful book which traces the origin of alphabets and their relation to trees, dolmens, times of the year and characteristics within the myths of Britain, Greece and other sources. Thank you for deepening my knowledge and understanding of this wonderful cultural heritage.

[@Crecganford]

Yes, I have that book, very worthwhile reading. Thank you.

[@JaneB1]

Hi. You've probably seen the Nilesh Nilkanth Oak books? Dates the Mahabharata war and Rama's birth (and many other dates) to 5,561 BCE and Nov 29, 12,240 BCE... with meticulous research and huge piles of facts. Amazing. Highly acclaimed in India.

[@piotrczubryt1111]

I have a puzzle for you. Why the runes on your shirt resemble Phoenician/old Hebrew alphabet, the same one that was adopted by the post-Mycenaean Greeks? ;)

[@Crecganford]

Do you want me to talk about the history of the alphabet?

[@jaylewis9876]

How many Australian stories match?

[@shanegooding4839]

There are a lot of similarities between Bhima in the Mahabharata and Lugh in Irish mythology.

[@joydeepghosh1781]

Katabasis is found in Indian epics also like the descent of Inanna/Ishtar.

[@tonewopn8275]

About when as far as years did all those separate cultures and islands that were so called “Hellenes” become one culture referred to as Greek?

[@costasrex476]

With the romans

[@Agapi-dg7th]

What is the alphabey in his t- shirt??? Babylonian? Urdu? African?

[@nicolarivarossa4027]

not enough animations. this could be a podcast, although a monotone one

[@Crecganford]

It could

[@Helicondrummer]

Interesting parallel in Gilgamesh where he must stay awake in order to get immortality but falls asleep

[@peteraschubert]

Are you suggesting Plato was the first plagiarist?

[@Crecganford]

Ha, not quite... but I'm sure some of those Greek authors weren't as original as history may have us believe....

[@Eye_in-the-Sky]

You didn't mention the version according to which the events described in the "Iliad" could have taken place on the shores of the Baltic Sea? Did you do that intentionally?

[@naebhor6931]

I've read a few things that say both the Greek Epics and the Mahabharata are similar retellings of Zoroastrian stories/myth's, such as that of the Tale/Epic of Gilgamesh. Also, there is significant evidence that the Bering Straight wasn't the only crossing point into the America's as there is significant similarities between the DNA of the Polynesians and South American people's as the Polynesians were great seafarers, underwater cities across the world dating back to, roughly, 12-18,000 years ago that suggest water levels were significantly lower at that time making sea and land movement far easier than today and similarities in DNA between the Natives of America and the Siberian Natives and the Eskimos and Inuit's. It's fascinating to look into.

[@thomasvieth578]

I have heard the parallel stories of the bow, but you never named the Indian counterpart to Odysseus. Of course, him as a beggar being able to handle the bow is so famous. But who in the Mahabharata did the same feat?

[@Crecganford]

I believe it was Arjuna (that's off the top of my head so it may be wrong, but it was one of those brothers).

[@fmac6441]

the use of the expression "natives of Greece" can be a bit missleading. Before the pre-Indo-Europeans, Anatolian farmers had already expanded into the region, mainly to Crete, and expelled/mixed with the local population closest genetically to the Balkans. This population possibly also replaced a previous one. Prehistoric populations were always mixing and replacing. The same happened in Africa and America before the arrival of Europeans to register. The peoples that we found in the place were sometimes also a recent occupation. ps: In today's world it is always important to point out, it is not a political position in favor/against current immigration.

[@ptolemaiosachaenczyk7657]

There is missing some context ill just clarify, 1200 BCE ist the time of the great bronze age collapse when all great powers around the mediterreanian collapsed except for egypt , men of the sea on boats pillaged and put fire to the coastcities and so on those men did wear horned helmets which was later wrongly attributed to the vikings. That being said it is not hard to imagine the possibility that "greek history" started being written down again since the 1st olympic games. fyi

[@SEKreiver]

While Homer (whomever) might have used PIE elements, there are ALSO many elements which are specific to Mycenaean Greece and are historically proven. This is much like the Arthurian Mythos, which incorporates pre-Roman elements.

[@ferencmansen2086]

Your videos are really good.

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for watching them