Did I Predict A Lot Of 5v5 Overwatch's Problems?

[@AarPlays]

Im actually super happy to see flats lost weight. I noticed it immediately and im glad he acknowledged it

[@Ethan-jb8vr]

Noticed too good stuff grind never stops 🫡💪

[@jordanhaggerty7868]

Same. Don’t let people “get weird” about being healthier.

[@coreyboi873]

Yessir (still got a long way to go)

[@kIDNEYKid-xt9uc]

​@@coreyboi873hope flats keeps it up. The hardest step is the 1st one.

[@paranoia_xo]

@@coreyboi873 the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, the second best time is today

[@wilsonjoshwilson]

“Dam bro you cooked” - Flats when watching Flats

[@Real_MisterSir]

Obama medal gif

[@Notorious1441]

Weirdly enough, a lot of the comments on the video he's watching are accusing him of being a shill now for refusing to advocate for 6v6.

[@fullnelson4986]

Yea its not really a good look. Thats why u see him hiding his face with his hands and such. He knows hes caught. ​@Notorious1441

[@Literally___Me]

@@Notorious1441he’s just wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy less trying

[@Delta_Quagsire]

​@@fullnelson4986He heard some real shit and had to give props idk what's there to be embarrassed about

[@DatMageDoe]

Alternate title: Flats reacts to Flats reacts.

[@Leuhim]

Can't wait for the sequel 😂

[@coral9403]

Flats reacts to Flats reacts to 5v5 premier

[@NyxNyxie]

@@coral9403 2 years from now, is "flats reacts to flats reacting to flats reacts to 5v5 premier"

[@electrollama2127]

Now he needs to react when they release a 6v6 Quickplay Hacked video, so he can react to that in a year or two.

[@derioz3404]

When overwatch 3 comes out with 4v4 he should react to this video

[@Momo_pstat4]

An angry community doesnt indicate a dieing game. A silent community does. Cause when players are silent, they will stop being players for good

[@anstorner]

Exactly whats going on in Helldivers 2, right now is starting to make people indifferent to the patches, yet most of them have already left and those remaining are the ones screaming at the top of their lungs yet practically unheard off

[@RIP_ZYZZ1738]

This is why I’ll never be against people like Samito

[@VesperEm]

Not really, people who are happy with the game probably aren't going to have much to talk about

[@thiefpotato2759]

​@@VesperEm I disagree with that. People usually just aren't just talking about the games health. There is fanart/cosplay/fanfics. The hardcore side may be a bit silent, but the casual side will be more lively.

[@JonezBBQ]

​@@thiefpotato2759 Yes but negative feedback is typically much louder than positive feedback.

[@bluzerotwo3379]

"i havent seen this yet, but its an hour and 12 minutes of me"

[@Real_MisterSir]

"haven't seen this, but supposedly I'm the main protagonist"

[@OrmyGaming]

Finally a video where the channel's name makes sense!

[@vgcontroller101]

Took me a second lol

[@Real_MisterSir]

Time to crank up that Flats Three channel for the inevitable react to the self react react

[@veefemby]

then we get some More Flats

[@hardstuck_styx]

ok this got me LOL

[@bader1708]

@@veefembywhen there is more then two

[@retronax4346]

That bit at the end where he predicts the next 3 years incredibly accurately is terrifying, it's like staring into the eyes of the beast. The OW staff being all corporate cheery showing 5v5 ending with flats going "here's what's actually gonna happen" and being fully proven right now is quite the tragedy

[@rorymclean1931]

One of the only takes he got wrong is where he said that widow would be meta. She’s never been meta in ow2. Only on circuit.

[@kaydonrubalcaba]

​@@rorymclean1931That's completely false but ok

[@rorymclean1931]

@@kaydonrubalcaba I’ve been following pro play since the start of ow2 and can’t think of a single widow meta

[@rorymclean1931]

@@kaydonrubalcaba pretty much for the first year of ow2 if a pro team wasn’t playing Winston tracer sombra Ana brig, they were throwing

[@AngelBloxx899]

​@@rorymclean1931you're talking pro meta, in ranked meta she's been meta several times in OW 2 till they dropped the anvil on her head with nerfs

[@ejonestoo]

"Apparently (OW1) is in a good state because we have 2 f*ing tanks in it." - old Flats Bro was Gordon Ramsey in the kitchen back in the day.

[@shogun0810]

The rose tinted glasses on overwatch 1 is some mega copium People forget the state of that game and all the broken things in it. Nostalgia is a hell of a drug.

[@ejonestoo]

​@@shogun0810 "Am I so out of touch? No it must be the children who are wrong!" ahh comment. Bro, the devs are going back and trying out different formats. What does that mean? 5v5 ain't it genius.

[@shogun0810]

@@ejonestoo haha I like the Skinner reference Simply pointing out that people forget how shite it was. So many issues with it yet people harp on about it being the golden age because it reinforces their 6v6 narrative. Realistically people will always piss and moan about it. Having a 6v6 mode won't change the perpetual cry babies in this community. They're always going to find something to complain about

[@xRichieeex]

@@shogun0810 the video just refuted your whole point, either you didn't watch it or ya just talking just to talk. OW2 has yet to have a single good season. The game does absolutely nothing better then OW1. Every singe aspect is worse outside of queue times.

[@shogun0810]

@@xRichieeex the second half of my comment is talking about whinge bags like you Thanks for proving me right ✅️

[@jatbird855]

im so glad flats let flats react to his content hope they collab in the future

[@YTHandlesWereAMistake]

I mean if slim shady did it, why can't the old flats do it as well

[@snaggiz]

Just goes to show, they did 5v5 when nobody was asking for it even when all of the problems were painfully predictable.

[@Real_MisterSir]

"They couldn't know at the time, give them time to prove their vision" -typical OW2 format apologists. Here we are, 2 years later. Game is fucking exactly where we expected it, which is basically nowhere. Dead in the waters. Devs are rowing but in different directions and the ship is only fucking spinning in a circle

[@IronMan-jj2fd]

​@@Real_MisterSirmeanwhile ow pro Jake out there be like:- "hey 5v5 is amazing, I love counterswapping it's so much fun, yay" 💀 Is that dude for real or he actin it all out?

[@natedavis2944]

@@IronMan-jj2fdif ur just a dps or support player, especially like a widow or Ashe player you would love 5v5. Everyone else doesn’t that much

[@RIP_ZYZZ1738]

@@natedavis2944But the difference is that Jake is spouting bs. He said tanks weren’t killable in OW1. I’m sorry but how is he a pro but says bs like that?

[@natedavis2944]

@@RIP_ZYZZ1738 idk bro tanks were very likable in 6v6. Now you just have a dva set sights on you and if both ur supports run to save ur ass you are dead and there’s nothing you can do.

[@its_lucky2526]

guy on the left is passionate about the game he plays

[@SuperVincent0000]

Meanwhile in the right side... 😢

[@floridamanmd]

Flats is Cassandra from Greek mythology. Blessed to see the future, cursed to have no one believe him 🥲

[@Phobie_2000]

funny timestamps: 15:16 VEGETA HAIRLINE 19:58 Flats prediction #1 41:33 Flats prediction #2 53:13 HIT EM WITH THE FACTS OLD FLATS 55:00 Flats prediction #3 55:48 MAUGA HAAHAAAA 57:59 Flats prediction #4 1:02:14 old flats just leaves. 1:03:40 Flats prediction #5 1:18:20 Flats prediction #6

[@landonidk4499]

thanks g

[@footur3179]

1:21:00 MAUGA HAHAHA AGAIN

[@edwinlopez-bx9md]

Thank you kind traveler

[@ImMrKuzco]

THIS IS A MAIN CHANNEL VIDEO The ultimate "everyone is slow to catch on so I just wait for everyone else to catch on now"

[@willwunsche6940]

The crazy part is I remember already feeling so broken by the absence of content for 2 years prior to that 5v5 announcement live stream. It's weird to think how different the monetization and everything is now

[@Dragonlord826]

listening to that last part of flats talking about learning heroes was crazy. in OW1 i got away with knowing how to play Dva, zen, soldier, hanzo, and Hog. Now I can play over 80% of the characters not because I wanted to, but because I had no choice but to counter swap every single match. Soldier is probably the only character I can play any match because good damage hitscan is crazy useful 24/7.

[@swagglesworth33]

my tank hero pool expanded that much too since OW 2 for the same reason lol

[@Dragonlord826]

@@swagglesworth33 OW2 is literally a counter swap war these days since some tanks literally just can't with certain match ups if both teams dps are competent.

[@IHJello]

20:38 he predicted blame tank

[@killerbug05]

Genuine question, was blame tank not already a problem in overwatch 1? In every game I've ever played with a DPS/tank/support system blame tank is the standard, you blame the tank if you can't blame the tank you blame the healer and if DPS gets blamed "but muh damage"

[@turtlebear5951]

@@killerbug05my memory of OW1 was that tank and support was blamed pretty evenly. It just depended on why the DPS think they were dying. In OW2 it's pretty well understood that your support has to actually be brain dead to not be getting value, meanwhile 1 mistake from a tank results in a point loss 99% of the time.

[@apmcx]

Yeah people said MTD after every other match for years in OW1.

[@petrparkr8011]

Emmong: we're gonna have cool tanks in Ow 2 Mauga: HAHAAAA Prrrrrrrprrrrrrrerprrrrrrrrr Thanks for the likes yall i hope the next tank is not another mauga🗿

[@nailinthefashion]

How can something so beautiful be so cruel

[@djstrawberry1471]

sisi wa kiki

[@downdriftvenom]

BoTh HeArTs PuMpInG

[@RIP_ZYZZ1738]

They are cool tanks. They’re just being balanced with an unbalanceable format in mind.

[@ciach0_]

@@djstrawberry1471 SE SE'I KOIKIIKI

[@Chris-dy1cb]

Bro i couldn't stop laughing at Flats absolutely tearing apart the gameplay.

[@footur3179]

I'd love for Flats to go back over the 1 on 1 discussion he had with SVB around the time this came out. If I remember correctly Flats was pushing 6v6 so hard lmao

[@bambampewpew32]

I hate that he tries so hard to just not seem like "a 6v6er" because there's some stereotype about it and samito lmao He's just gotta go: fk it go ahead 'yeah I'm a "6v6er" f you chat' that'd be so funny if he said that lmao

[@footur3179]

Why give your true thoughts on something you're not passionate about? I think him and a lot of people don't have the same feelings about overwatch compared to 2 years ago

[@darkdeath814]

@@bambampewpew32 I mean... he literally stated in the video that he doesn't support 5v5 or 6v6? He stated that he supports 7v7. Now also tbf, not too long ago there was a lot of infighting on twitter and reddit between supporters for 5v5 and 6v6. If you support either side, you immediately became an enemy to the opposition, which he also mentions might I add with that whole battlefield segment.

[@p3num6ra]

@@bambampewpew32 Because the overwatch community is extremely sensitive and going against the status quo you will be shunned out and you wont grow as a creator. Samito is a prime example of someone who has little growth or flexibility as a content creator because he has went against the status quo. Just look at the overwatch subreddit just to see what the community status quo and over all attitude toward 6v6ers is like.

[@BeebsCat]

15:52 "flats, prince of all tanks."

[@shogun0810]

@@BeebsCat he's not even remotely close to vegatas basedness

[@jakob3044]

@@shogun0810 Oh, okay.

[@shogun0810]

@@jakob3044 glad you agree champ

[@jakob3044]

@@shogun0810 Bet he couldn't beat Goku tho

[@shogun0810]

@@jakob3044 fats couldn't beat eggs mate

[@DragneelXx]

5v5 was never the choice and even at one point u saw it too but got blinded by the possibility of the game getting better

[@RIP_ZYZZ1738]

You can hear how much changed even through his voice. It’s like xqc. Their voices are completely different even when it was a year gap. Overwatch has scarred many 😂

[@its_lucky2526]

@@RIP_ZYZZ1738unrelated

[@donovan4222]

I miss the old flats, straight from the go flats, chop up the soul flats, set on his goals flats. I hate the new flats, the bad mood flats, the always rude flats, spaz in the news flats. I miss the sweet flats, chop up the beats flats. I gotta say, at that time I’d like to meet flats.

[@somerandomdudeonline7182]

Bruh flats has barley changed

[@isaacargesmith8217]

Personally I prefer Unevens

[@dumbxsslmao]

@@somerandomdudeonline7182its a song. .

[@donovan4222]

@@somerandomdudeonline7182See I invented flats, it wasn’t any flats. And now I look and look around and there’s so many flats. I used to love flats, I used to love flats. I even had the grey t shirt, I thought I was flats. What if flats made a stream about flats. Called “I miss the old flats” man that would be soo flats. Thats all it was flats, we still love flats And I still love you like flats loves flats.

[@angelaz9360]

@@somerandomdudeonline7182joke 😭

[@TurningTrix42]

I like that someone found a video of Flats pointing out the most obvious issues that everyone was talking about when 5v5 was first announced, but acting as if he was the only one that said anything. What we got with 5v5 is exactly what most people said it was going to be. Tanks getting flamed the most for getting diffed. Tanks would end up hating their role because they have to do everything two tanks could do and wouldn't be able to do everything. Ripple effect that would affect all the other roles due to the format. Having either OP tanks where it's mostly just them having the all the impact or being too weak because they would just be glorified DPS characters that wouldn't be able to Tank all the damage and would just die often, causing constant regrouping. Even friends that seldomly played the game were making the exact same predictions.

[@toxic_icecream]

At the time it was depressing to watch but right now its so funny because it is so true. A literal proof that players can know your game more than you

[@bader1708]

Simply they don’t play their game 😂😂

[@titanium0titan]

You mention the back line not existing and the most evident thing I saw was when overwashed was playing and apply and emongg dove the back line and then there was no back line

[@d4s0n282]

honestly this is a large reason I stopped playing the game as a mainly support player, there was no fking such thing as backlane and it turned game into deathmatch

[@paranoia_xo]

bro actually found the infinite money glitch. dudes reacting to his own content, i'm crying

[@arthurvilchez5589]

1:16:16 flats predicted perfectly all the problems and complaints 😂😂😂😂

[@Rambone1978]

Absolutely wild man

[@theslenderfox]

1:18:16 Old flats cooked so hard he stunlocked new flats

[@uwuowo214]

Mcree vs Cassidy

[@kylen9954]

Yes Flats you said you'll be passionate about something you love. Everyone should be scared when you don't care anymore

[@Daavel]

Flats: sees all the tons of issue's with 5v5 and defends 6v6 in the past Also Flats: yeah there is good things with both 5v5 and 6v6 and i'm like here wondering what benefits 5v5 has besides a minor boost in queue times

[@jakeling2]

Minor? You did not queue DPS in OW1 role queue stfu lmao

[@croingo8294]

you dont have to get passed two tanks to do any sort of meaningful damage you dont get stun locked and barrier blocked by two giant meatballs you dont have to do 6000000 damage to take a point supports can do their jobs easier there are benefits to 5v5, i remember near the end of OW1 i stopped playing because no one would ever die and it was just slamming our heads against the wall, thats why a lot of people quit OW1 in the first place.

[@Rank1PeakJerkmateChampion]

From the data the devs released about queue times, it wasn’t just “minor differences” in queue times. Dps queue times got basically halved. Ofc the argument though would be whether or not the queue times would be a worthy trade off for having a balanced game.

[@jakeling2]

Bro you're either straight up lying or mained tank in OW1 if you think queue times got a "minor boost". DPS queues are 5 minutes shorter and even support times got cut in half.

[@iSuckAtGamesGG]

​@@croingo8294u do have to do 60000 damage still cause the tank now is a raid boss. look at dva, she's basically unkillable even as zaria. tanks back then were killable. play the 6v6 code and its much better than what we have now

[@frisuh1664]

The final speech in the old reaction video was so accurate to today's Overwatch that I fell dead to the ground in disbelief

[@Jonny_Rhombus]

Flats Flats Flats… variety is a beautiful thing. You know what else is beautiful? Deep Rock Galactic. Bring some friends, hop on, and farm that variety content. ROCK AND STOOOONE!

[@nailinthefashion]

Your dedication to rock and stone is beautiful to behold

[@RIP_ZYZZ1738]

Omg I’ve seen this sentiment all over Tik Tok too. It’s like me with Monster Hunter. I kind of wanna try it now. Maybe you should try Monster Hunter as well (world specifically)

[@Jonny_Rhombus]

@@RIP_ZYZZ1738 it’s goated.

[@oggo329]

DID I HEAR A ROCK AND STONE!?

[@magmarxiogaming6717]

genuinely i cannot believe how accurately he was able to predict it, and this is why even if it's something i may not agree with I will always listen to what he has to say because he's had the experience in so many different perspectives from overwatch and understand where it should be

[@morgan2488]

the glasses keep flats in check

[@ncascini01]

Lol, like Clark Kent vs Superman. You got me with that one 😂

[@goliathus8815]

The only reason 5v5 ever happened is because the 2 year content drought made the game so unbelievably boring that the player base was literally ready to sell their souls for a scrap of content. If they had suggested 5v5 in 2018, when the game was still playable, there would have been riots. People would have stormed Blizzard HQ with pitchforks.

[@shoppingcart238]

@4:18 thats acutally the "death" of the flats and emong tank duo as we knew it

[@bobmythic3220]

Vegeta Hair line is crazy

[@absolute-xero7502]

I can't unsee it.

[@dogs-game-too]

That makes emongg Goku and I'm not mad at it lol

[@nailinthefashion]

​@dogs-game-too how adorable. Like a comics accurate Wolverine

[@RIP_ZYZZ1738]

@@dogs-game-tooWhy does this fit so well? I don’t know, Emongg being Goku just makes sense 😂

[@Deusaga]

@@RIP_ZYZZ1738 Because they both give human Labrador vibes probably.

[@NadaXVII]

1:12:40 Local Turkey gives opinion about 5v5

[@yiksma]

"flats the marvel rivals streamer reacting to this in 2 years" -AmbraLemon 59:13

[@thebearded4427]

I just realized that the reason we got 5v5 and not 6v6 was because they were building a PvE game like a WoW dungeon game. They literally built something that wasn't supposed to be pvp at all but then when they scrapped pve they had to roll this out instead. That's why the engine wasn't built for 6v6! The game we loved is gone and was replaced by a last minute panic mode scraptogether. Everything makes so much sense now

[@lt3880]

This is nonsense, there is no reason there couldnt be 6v6 for pvp and 5 or less for PVE. There is no "engine" restraint that would make this an issue at all. You can do 6v6 custom games the whole time.

[@MessiahOfRodents]

"5v5", "6v6", "7v7", all cower before the majesty of the shining "MMO" path. Take the Project Titan pill

[@evilded2]

Impressive to find the worst possible option

[@helloworld7515]

No, we all know that this isn’t going to happen. Last time Bliz tried PvE, the result was nothing but wasted time, hope, and money. Something is seriously wrong with their PvE shooter management

[@Darrakkii]

"Flats predicted everything right" Flats first prediction: "They're not gonna go 5v5, hehe"

[@Dyllabus_]

I think if you went to 7v7 you're going to run into a lot of oppressive DPS combos that will feel terrible to play against. Comps like sombra/pharah/echo, sombra/widowmaker/tracer, mei/venture/junkrat, etc. I could be wrong but it feels like they'd need to make a lot more changes for 7v7, looking forward to trying 6v6 again though.

[@mckookie2967]

Bro needs to try 6v6 code for saying nonsense like Mauga wouldn't work when he has no idea

[@Garry-y7b]

I agree he should try it, but I wouldn’t say the devs will nerf him enough for sure. He’s still strong in that mode with nuked cardiac.

[@mckookie2967]

@@Garry-y7b He'd be fine with cardiac applying to just him, given that you can kite the duration and almost every tank has some mitigation ability to block it

[@TigerBlood-m4b]

Saying he works because of a fan made mode is not reliable in the slightest, samito as the self proclaimed science guy of overwatch should know you cant draw a conclusion with a small bias group of people like that. First off they balanced that mauga and if you let players balance stuff for their rank bracket, a large portion of people could easily make all the heros feel good and balance with in their rank, plus were only getting the pov that mauga works from high rank players, for all we know he feels like bastion or reaper where high rank players constantly try to gaslight low rank players into thinking theyre fine meanwhile these poor suckers have faced bastion and reaper every game for the last decade almost because theyve just been perpetual stables of gold, which high rank players never acknowledge as bad even tho they complain when soj gets played every game for half a year in their games lol No one wants to face the same heros on repeat for half a decade irregardless of rank so im not saying mauga won't work but its delusional to just straight up say he 100 percent works from a fan made mode.

[@Tonkabroombroom]

@@TigerBlood-m4b I mean the server has players of all rank ranges playing every day, the patch is as "fairly balanced" as it can get with how limited the workshop actually is, especially in perspective of the new ow2 heroes, I would watch spilo's most recent video with the developers of the 6v6 code its fairly interesting and would do a much better job of explaining when it comes to how they have balanced the code and the limitations on balance they are bound by. One point made is that they actually had no idea how strong doomfist was until they had higher elo players join the pug server was and had to nerf him a bit which I feel indicates they dont just balance by their own rank bracket but seriously go give that video a watch if you wanna know a bit more about it, it is very enlightening.

[@jimmyjab8744]

@@mckookie2967 he aint even thattt great as far as i can tell with cardiac applying to teammates, tho in the main 6v6 code it doesnt give teammates damage reduction so it's quite different i think to live

[@parks_plays]

I love flats’ reaction to flats’ reaction to overwatch 5v5 announcement.

[@thebigdumb5859]

This is entirely off topic to the video itself, but seeing a side by side comparison of old and new flats made me realize how much healthier you look now. Nice job man.

[@incomplet1396]

"I haven't seen this yet" my brother in christ you made it

[@gamist8166]

I felt like at the time they heavily tested 5v5 and had reasons to go to it or ways to avoid the issues. I was so, so wrong... Can't trust anything blizzard does now, KNOWING they do not test their shit thoroughly to check for things literally the community would predict.

[@Deusaga]

Most big patches the ow2 devs have put out have unintended consequences ranging from small to large. This is probably why the OG devs were slower to update the game. They tested the updates more thoroughly. But the OG devs also let release Brig out of the box. That's the worst thing to happen in the history of OW beside 5 v 5.

[@d4s0n282]

@@Deusaga honestly I dont blame them, also they had the idea that players will adapt to different champs being strong... which is kinda true but not really

[@PancakeFace2211]

Gratz on the weight loss brother, I never heard of you just went down your rabbit hole of overwatch after Rivals. Kudos

[@Royicahn]

also, about the experience being really rough for new players, I wanna say it really destroyed me to try and learn this game after 5v5, for 1 simple reason, I got tired of playing Sigma and wanted to try another tank, after that I either: got Pidgeon holed to play Sig anyways, and learn very little other than "700 hp shield is less than it feels it should be" or "why did you expect to survive for more than 0.2 seconds out of cover? you are the tank ,man" It really sucked as all I knew was my positioning was off or my mechanics weren't good enough, but nothing more, no oh you had a bad turn or oh you didnt see the reaper walk past you, nope that nuance never was the reason, it was either I made 1 micro mistake and showed my shoulder for less than a second and then boom, I'm back to spawn, it made the game less and less fun to try and learn the more I learned. And one more thing that I wanna say is I remember your argument for not going 6v6 was ALWAYS "but queue times were bad that is why they changed it", every single time I heard you say this I rolled my eyes because I went from tank to support, and queue times were quite bad even in the metal ranks, it made me so mad that, THAT was your defense and little more, because it clearly was not the answer, not last year not this year.

[@Royicahn]

no hate, just frustrated ya know? like I got into this game because of friends and I hated to falling out with playing tank because my friends had to deal with me basically re-learning the game to play support instead.

[@Thudd224]

18:32 past you didn't know to pause the vid to talk. Current you does. It's very appreciated so we can hear & understand what everyone is saying

[@cooper5602]

I think he just didnt want to pause the livestream, it wasnt a video.

[@imsmokeyy5630]

it was genunely really good to see him reacting to his past self and seeing on things really went downhill.

[@ExclusiveExcellence]

57:08 This donation COOKED we are literally there now😭

[@duzhidoes1111]

They do listen to us sometimes... "14 season later"

[@aquilanusUK]

Oneir1c with the "VEGETA HAIRLINE!" comment at @15:45 Dude, I don't watch DBZ, but even I howled with laughter at that. More so at Flats' response! 🤣🤣🤣

[@randomperson-up5vt]

Flats vs flats

[@BlackWave54]

lol I’ve bean playing open queue so long and yeah I hate single tanks now

[@ERK_hanna]

Even when that echo copyed tank the only time you saw a actual impactful play

[@hxppy_snek]

every few weeks i think to myself "man, I kinda miss playing overwatch, maybe i should reinstall it". then I see the how the game is played currently and that urge immediately fades and i remember that I'd rather be doing literally anything else

[@calebwatson779]

Damn, Congratulations Flats, it's super apparent how much work you've put in the past couple years. Super happy for you

[@nic0856]

I want 6v6 back very badly but I would be down to try 7v7. My 2 main issues with 5v5 are single tank feeling awful in every way and that the map feels insanely empty. The extra chaos would be welcome by me and would "fix" q times (in quotations because I believe q times could be greatly improved by making the roles more appealing like they did to the support role for Ow2 and wouldn't have to change away from 2-2-2)

[@therockfan10001]

There is something so incredibly shocking and depressing at the same time that this conversation was so modern and we hadn’t even played the mode yet.

[@avariciousgaming1695]

Flats deep dive on 7v7 sounds fun. Personally think it could potentially combine most of the aspects people like from both into one. The game handling it, is the biggest issue. Worth exploring, i think rotating the format every 2-3 seasons or so could be interesting.

[@willwunsche6940]

Ooo a rotating format that's an interesting idea. Also a big fan of the idea of 7v7. I just agree we cannot abandon players on older hardware. They'd need to find some way to make it work with lower than low settings or something

[@hermangrinden1283]

When they say the game is having a hard time I get a bit confused. They managed to have a stable 6v6 format with older and most likely worse software and hardware. If OW1 could run smoothly in a 6v6 format for years, why is it suddenly difficult many years later? They mention in the hour long interview with the lead developer that the engine has been refited for 5v5, but that is not the same as the game not being able to run a 6v6 format

[@razrv3lc]

@@hermangrinden1283they upgraded the lighting from OW1 to a new engine. The a lot of the freedom they had to do that came from the game not having to support two more players each game. And remember, they have to make the game work on the weakest system not the strongest; in this case, that’s the Switch. 6v6 with the new lighting system on the Switch might be a struggle.

[@willwunsche6940]

@@hermangrinden1283 they made a lot of under the hood system improvements + graphical lighting upgrades. Also the game was sort of forced to market fast with the CEO having them trend chase then drop features after they made progress on them and he changed his mind. Some rumors point to all the sponsors pulling out gave Overwatch League franchise team owners more power to push the next game out faster too as they kind of got heavy screwed out of tens of millions of dollars while blizzard abandoned the game with no content to keep interest in their investment. Once all the brands pulled out in the big advertising drop out of supporting Overwatch League after the big controversies it apparently let them change the deal and force the next game to launch sooner too. With the game now 5v5 they were able to raise the effects add new dynamic sound systems and etc. while keeping performance the same

[@fullnelson4986]

It's sounds stupid is what it fken sounds

[@eraticfx]

Can't wait to watch you review this video again so we can see 3 FLATS... old man Flats, Young Man Flats... and Medium Man Flats

[@Cyber_p3nguin]

It's also mentioned briefly in the vid how "Sam is actually thinking it's a good change" Then if you watch Samito's initial reaction to 5v5, he actually lays out so many points that he now claims that he says he opposed since the beginning. Like how he even mentions how hero's in the battle pass and behind a "PLAY wall not PAY wall" (his words), he now says he was always against having hero's in the battle pass and putting them behind a paywall. Edit: Just so more people can easily see it and I don't get pinged anymore from people who pretend like he just "changed his mind". It's not about changing his mind, that's fine if he was like "yeah at first I liked 5v5 but now I realize it was a mistake" but he doesn't just do that. He goes on and on about how he called this from the beginning, he always new 5v5 was a bad idea, and it's just so dishonest. Here he is talking about how he was mad about the format change from the time it was announced: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nX6ydIqfbMaHq9E Here he is reacting to swapping to 5v5 and saying that it's actually good, that OW needed the format change, and that heroes in the battlepass is good: kzbin.info/www/bejne/sIKmZK2Yj7yAZ5Y

[@TigerBlood-m4b]

That's because he gets blinded by shiny new things easily, and changes his stance alot due to it. Same things happening with marvel rivals, hes singing its praises now and ignoring the blatant issues with it while flats and emong both dont seem to be huge on the game, they had fun but they actually both called out big issues with it, mostly emong but he does it in his joking but maybe not joking way, but he makes little quips about marvel rivals now like when watching someone comparing about mei wall he goes "I found something worse, having a groot that doesn't know what they're doing" which is so true, it's like 10x worse than mei but it only starts becoming an issue if you play alot, like most things. It's why I always take everything samito says with alot of salt, hes smart but he just has adhd I think and dives in so hard on things that he blinds himself for abit lol

[@BluRXT2]

​@@TigerBlood-m4bSaying he's ignored the blatant issues is crazy, considering he has pointed some of them out.

[@TigerBlood-m4b]

@@BluRXT2 very small ones, the guy went 60 and 8 into the new adam warlock, starlord and mantis meta and lost big time and he didnt know how or acted like it because theres just no way someones like him would normally miss the fact half his kills just meant nothing because of all the reviving happening and if that happened in overwatch you know he would be losing it on devs 😂😭

[@BluRXT2]

@@TigerBlood-m4b Name some specific ones he hasn't talked about

[@donovan4222]

@@Cyber_p3nguin Lol there’s nothing wrong with changing your mind, I remember when he thought 5v5 was good until he played it for a few seasons and changed his mind.

[@brandonray4493]

I predicted all the main tank problems too... honestly not that hard. I feel like those of us who played tank for 6 years just knew.

[@ejonestoo]

Same. I came to OW1 a little late, but just the experience of playing solo main tank with Hogs that constantly flanked and died let me know how 5v5 would feel like.

[@d4s0n282]

@@ejonestoo even then, yo had frontline and etc still there unlike today where its just DEATHMATCH

[@firesoullv]

5v5 feels like a never-ending filler arc...

[@jonathanpotempa7489]

VEGETA HAIRLINE 😂

[@jonathanpotempa7489]

I'm not clowning btw, just laughed at the comment

[@swagmeat]

In my later 20s now and I got one coming in too sadly 😔

[@Beanigez]

2 years and we’re still here. 5v5 was never the solution, the game will either die mediocre or climb back to its era of being GOTY

[@Hazslin]

And Sir Flats THE ALL-KNOWING

[@jimmyjab8744]

lmaoo

[@RIP_ZYZZ1738]

“What a sad state of affairs” fits this situation perfectly

[@fullnelson4986]

Why the switch up then? What changed?

[@The_ASMR_Listener]

Dude Flats and everyone was saying this would happen and those who said it wouldnt happen are people who actually wanted to become an esports pro but couldnt make it out of platinum.

[@aaronbrown07]

5v5 was an economic decision pure and simple. They wanted more people to play games quickly (q times) and abandoned the game being good. Activision knew at the time this was a cash grab. Now, things have changed a bit but the game is designed around 5v5, so they can't go back. We'd need an Overwatch 3 for that, but the game isn't alive enough to survive ANOTHER sequel.😊

[@Taygon45]

I forgot that this decision killed the Overwatch League.

[@jimbalaya7002]

Can't wait for 2 years from now when flats is reacting to this from him predicting 7v7

[@brucetrejo4905]

15:15 Lmao the Vegeta Hairline made laugh so hard and then Flats read it and made it hilarious

[@dannyhernandez112]

It’s crazy that the last rant he goes on at the end is literally what we are experiencing now irl. Like even the community turning on each other with the 5v5 vs 6v6. He may not have known it would be about that specifically but he knew that fanbase would divide and turn on each other. Sad to see that so many of us knew this would happen and they did it anyway. And this was with everyone believing PVE was still coming. We got slapped with that extra bit of disappointment we didn’t expect.

[@chtulie]

"All that changed is that I became more articulate, and in conclusion BlaaAARGhblablaBleuurr."

[@ziggy2metalx720]

This video just proves that deep down that Flats is a 6v6er. Some people need to just stop with the whole “I don’t care what format we are in” and answer the question, if there was only two sides of a room(there’s no third option) and one was 5v5 and the other was 6v6, which one of the two is truly better for the game. We all knew it was 6v6 even back then. I don’t know how some people convinced themselves into thinking that 5v5 is better when it isn’t.

[@megamecha100]

It's because they value the things 5v5 brings, they think that tanks in 5v5 could be designed better and are willing to sacrifice the complexity of 6v6

[@xlqwqx]

I’ve seen a lot of players who’ve only played ow2 be against 6v6. They were not enlightened with the ability to play crazy tank combos (I played only casuals as tank in ow1 and it was a blast, maybe not the same in comp)

[@RIP_ZYZZ1738]

@@megamecha100How could you read your comment and have any confidence in what you said?

[@fullnelson4986]

Flats using 7v7 to have as a 3rd option lol it's pathetic bc I can see how desperate he is to stay on the fense. I mean look at his facial reactions to what his past self is saying lol bros hiding just like how he's hiding behind 7v7 as a scapegoat.

[@megamecha100]

@@RIP_ZYZZ1738 ??? what kind of response is that you didn't argue anything

[@akai_shuichi_x]

This was one of the most entertaining videos from Flats I've seen in a long time. Literally had me wheezing

[@kahanumc]

What Flats said about having healthier communication with the devs is why I love his content. It feels like all the hate I see directed towards Flats is people who want him to be meaner and rip into the devs

[@d4s0n282]

I mean when devs just constantly shit on you as a player, you just care less and less ...

[@pikazilla6405]

We're at a point now where the discussion of 5v5 vs 6v6 where rather than discussing whether or not the change was good for the game it's just two groups yelling at each other on whether or not reverting the obviously terrible idea is even worth it at this point. The literal only upside ive ever seen argued in 5v5's favor in my entire history with this game was que times and that was a super solvable issue by simply nerfing double shield and baptiste to the floor and making actually fun tanks good again. It almost feels like common knowledge at this point that 5v5 has done irreparable damage to the game but no one can even agree if it's worth going back to 6v6 anymore because we've spent so much time and went through so many balance changes in 5v5 that it's simply too late now.

[@jamesgomez3455]

I don’t want to take away from flats but I think most players that actually think about the game would have seen most of the problems that this change would bring. I remember at the time my two OW friends; one a dps and one a support, said that they were excited for the changes. And I said to em that this change was probably the worst thing they could make for how the game plays. The dps player said well it fixes queue times and I said maybe but the games will feel worse overall. He said it fixes double shield, I said that the orisa changes were enough to make double shield unviable. Nobody complained about double shield with rein, sig or rein orisa. He said that goats wouldn’t ever happen again. Guess what, we had seasons where tanks just didn’t die being orisa, mauga, and hog. Now DVa is a problem and hell even Zarya was way too strong at one point. I really did put understand why players were hyped for 5v5 when you could see the issues it causes in game.

[@InsomniacUN]

Same here. In fact, I thought this was the general consensus in the online discourse when the 5v5 change was announced. I remember people being open-minded, but the belief that this would cause more problems than it would solve was prevalent. It was obvious to anyone that played Tank that losing one would immediately cause the loss of either the frontline or peeling for Supports. The effects to the rest of the team just snowball from there. I was a Flex player in OW1, with a preference for Support and Tank. I remember watching this stream, seeing how the game played as a more deathmatch-style game, and immediately thinking "only DPS players will enjoy this". Even then, as a Flex player that did in fact also play DPS, the idea of every game feeling like an Arcade mode was super off-putting.

[@jamesgomez3455]

@@InsomniacUN yeah, I can understand wanting dps to have more power. However most dps players want everything to be decided by them even though most games I’d argue is determined by which teams have the better dps. It’s very underrated how much the dps passive makes a difference in engagements and how the dps really need to focus and objective while the tank holds very important positions on a map

[@ikhalid1418]

"rein is just there" he really predicted rein's uselessness in OW2 😂

[@kielmessersmith1956]

"There are a lot of reasons we want to make this change" lots of financial reasons, that they would never elude too.

[@casualhandz1922]

@19:59 these ppl had the audacity to show 6 heroes running out of spawn on that "new" push map. Knowing doggone we'll we were getting 5 v 5 lmao that was nasty work. Downright diabolical.

[@jordanhaggerty7868]

As a fairly new OW2 player, but a veteran league/paladins/smite player, I think what makes overwatch difficult hard to balance is the fact that there is no neutral element. Like in league there is a PvE and an item shop that allows players to have more in game choice and you can counter in ways that don’t make the game unplayable. Paladins has their card system and in game item purchases. I think overwatch needs a new accompanying in game system to allow for strategic counterplay. And I’m kinda seeing the 7v7 as the only novel way for them to accomplish it.

[@d4s0n282]

as a former ow player but now play lots of league, sure that's a thing, but I don't really agree, overwatch devs are wayyy worse then other companies balancing wise

[@squishey_2.088]

Flats doesn’t just prewatch videos he prewatches the future 😆

[@undeaddragon0977]

Us (the audience) reacting to Flats, reacting to Flats, reacting to the OW2 live stream 😭

[@Michael-pn4xu]

Can't wait in two years, flats reacting to flats reacting to flats

[@jacobbrady173]

I remember this announcement I remember there was a lot of negativity in the community about 5v5 I personally I was someone who was optimistic however I'm not that way anymore around s9 as a dps player I realized I hated 5v5 and I don't think there is a solution to making it better. So idk as of rn with latest mid season patch I have basically stopped playing altogether I am waiting for that 6v6 playtest

[@Sporthawkz]

7:33 flats with the hand on his chin while old flats has his hand in his chin is priceless 😂

[@mattgeffery8577]

i will say overwatch 2 feels much more like a deathmatch relative to ow1. Less a team game more an individual. i think that is the real difference in game play

[@FlamingKakarot]

the way flats see's his past self call everything that happens in the current day overwatch is golden comedy lol

[@BananaWasTaken]

57:45 Flats predicts it perfectly.

[@tauseefbaggia5140]

Remember when our biggest complaints were 2cp and a content drought?

[@zachariahingram9974]

Young Flats been in the kitchen cooking

[@orangeade576]

flats is such a good voice for the overwatch community he really says everything everyones acc thinking W flats

[@Popotato7777]

In just 20 mins old Flats only said 2 things and it summarized everything beyond perfection to the point that is just depressing instead of midly funny I was immediatly wondering how is that Flats nowdays can't even say stuff this loud and clear, "i prefer this" or "im right", "this is dogshit" specially when it comes to 5v5 or 6v6 and my doubts kept switching as the vid went on but after watching those last minutes, no wonder we lost old Flats, such a shame.

[@ligmanewtons2523]

That ending prophecy was beautiful... just when you think he cooked he keeps bringing out more. Like those fancy restaurants where they bring you like 11+ dishes. Crazy that he could see the f2p new player vs old player experience sucking way back then. That was just a desert on the end, just out of the box thinking beyond the format itself but on a hero by hero basis.

[@nic0856]

Samito is the only big content creator who stuck to what everyone thought of 5v5 years on in and thats why his 6v6 video got so much traction, we are tired of this bs format and want our game back