Did Jesus Have a Biological Father? Sorting Out the Pantera Traditions

Contrary to what is often asserted, by scholars as well as general readers, the early traditions that Jesus had a biological father named "Pantera" has nothing to do with an assertion that Mary was raped by a Roman soldier. Further, the name Pantera was never said to be a pun on Parthenos--the Greek word for "virgin"--until it was suggested by a German scholar in the 19th century! No ancient writers who comment on the name "Yeshua bar Pantera" associates it with such a pun--they know the name as a real name from the family of Joseph and Mary. Furthermore, 1st century rabbis living in Sepphoris, just north of Nazareth, use the name in a descriptive way--not as slander at all--referring to Jesus of Nazareth. It was a REAL name, not a pun used in slander. In this interview with Derek Lambert, host of ‪@MythVisionPodcast‬, I offer a short overview of the Pantera traditions--what we know and don't know, including what I have discovered about the tombstone of a 1st century Roman soldier from Sidon found Bingerbrücke, Germany, on the Rhine river, in 1859.
For further in-depth reading see my book, The Jesus Dynasty, as well as these blog posts. The book is on sale now in paperback for the holidays and has a new epilogue bringing things up to date since it was first published in 2006.
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[@barondesena]

James Tabor is a great scholar . My own story is my mother was married to an Italian man who was in a veterans hospital until he died of wounds. My father was a southerner but she listed her Italian husbands name as my birth father on my birth certificate. My Italian last name is not my real ethnicity my real father was Murrel a scotch Irish man. Christianity is probably the most difficult faith to wrap your mind around because of all the religious traditions and contradictions. I graduated from seminary and always continue my search for the truth of my belief so finding James Tabor is a true blessing for my search.

[@jeffreyerwin3665]

"Abdes" is supposed to be a Latinization of "Ebed" which is a Jewish name. That leads to the idea that J. Tiberius Abdes Pantera was actually a Jewish man who enlisted in the Roman Army. Times were hard in Roman occupied Israel, and young Ebed may have decided to put his archery skills to use by enlisting in the occupying army. He may also have been acquainted with a young Jewish girl by the name of Miriam. However, once Ebed enlisted in the army of the occupying country, he would have become persona non grata in Jewish society. Then, when young Miriam turned up in a family way, society naturally assumed the worst. Marriage to Ebed was out of the question, so Miriam's parents pawned her off to a much older carpenter whose wife had died.

[@markrossow6303]

if Ebed and Miriam were married and Ebed either volunteered for the army or was enslaved & had no choice they would have logically divorced

[@Isaac5123]

@@markrossow6303 what are you talking about?

[@erikvanderheeg5729]

The name "Abdes" is actually Aramaic (meaning "servant" or "slave", which mean that the man may have been Phoenician or Jewish. Since the man was from Sidon, he may very well have been the former.

[@PaulHaesler]

Let's face it, there are only two possible options: either Jesus had a biological father, or he is pure myth and never existed at all.

[@slik00silk84]

Mary is said to have been the daughter of the priest, Joachim. Joseph is said to have been an elderly widower, a tekton (laborer) of not much account. Now the question you need to ask yourself is: why is a prime young maiden of high social standing betrothed to an old geezer of much lower social standing? I draw your attention to MARK 6.03......."Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him." Now if you have noticed in your bible, it was the norm to refer to men as: "the son of XXXX". To do as these people did, indicates that his hometown neighbors knew, or at least believed, that he was not the son of Joseph. It seems likely to me that Mary was found to have "a bun in the oven" and for some reason, the father was not available for marriage, a difficult situation. Obviously none of the young men of the village are going to marry her, and without a husband she is open to being stoned to death as per Mosaic Law. But there is old Joseph who is open to the prospect of getting a fresh young wife, albeit a little used......a prospect he could never otherwise expected to have. A prime young maiden wedding a poor old widower is not something that would have been forgotten. Some claim that the divine birth story came from Mary. Maybe so, maybe so. You know something.........sometimes people tell a lie for so long, they come to believe it themselves.

[@ktermalkut8332]

mother goddess sun god worship was core to roman catholicism where the highest roman leadership also worshiped the sun god in the style of egyptian and babylonian paganism/religion (as opposed to worshiping The LORD GOD OF LIGHT, TRUTH, LIFE and JOY Who we who are BORN OF HIS SPIRIT know). The enemy HATES The LORD GOD Who destroyed him and his hold on humanity came through religion and mainly through roman catholicism as its deception includes a widespread political, social and economic hold on many parts of the world and CLAIMS to include "jesus."

[@christopher7725]

Really enjoying your videos Dr Tabor

[@RomeoBejo]

One day when Mary was going to a market, she was about to be raped by a group of Roman soldiers, when Pantera, a Roman General and a member of the Essenes, came and rescue her. This is the beginning of Mary's relationship to him. When became pregnant, Joseph, being the leader of Essenes, take the responsibility so that Mary will not be stoned. To get a more info please dig out in the Bible the following points: 1. Why was Jesus brought to Egypt days after he was born? 2. Is Yeshua (Jesus) a legal name or spiritual name? Because it is a custom in a certain sect (before the time of Jesus and even today) to give spiritual name when entering, most especially, into a spiritual ministry. So what is the legal name of Jesus? His legal name once known, Jesus before his spiritual ministry, is not only a carpenter but a great builder (in modern times an Architect). He has a name in one of the temples built by Romans in Sidon as well as in Armenia where he and His mother was invited by the king so that Jesus may heal a child of the king. 3. Take a look on how the soldiers arrest Jesus, they are very cautious and show reverence to Jesus. 4. When Pilate before sentencing the crucifixion to Jesus, he asked him privately "Are you the son of God?". But looking at its original context Pilate asked Jesus "Are the son of Pantera?". That's why Pilate washed his hands and clearly in the Bible, he said he has nothing to do in Jesus crucifixion.

[@AmmoDude]

Interesting take. Yes, wriggt a book! LOL

[@Elior1030]

With my comment I do not want to offend or change anyone's faith. I was born in a Catholic family but as a child I never believed in the birth of Jesus, I did not want to question it out of fear and respect for elders. Now that I'm an adult I still don't believe in the idea of ​​the birth of Jesus. I know that an egg and a sperm are needed to form a living being. I turn it over and over and I still don't believe in the birth of Jesus according to the gospels. To add to this I also learned to say that in Hinduism also the birth of Krishna is similar to the birth of Jesus and Hinduism is older than Christianity. Also in the culture of the Mexican indigenous people, I think the Aztecs, they have a god who was born from a spirit. and they did not know Christianity when that happened. I think many people identify with me, many of us do not want to betray family beliefs but we also do not want to continue deceiving ourselves. Also many of us feel fear to question because the church tells them to believe, if not they go to hell. I also do not believe that a messiah will come to save us, I believe that the messianic era will arrive when we all learn to respect each other and stop trying to convince others of our belief. when we begin to share with those in need, and when we begin to accept each other without prejudice, Jews, Christians and Muslims. I believe that God formed us with the ability to respect and love each other. I believe that Jesus was a man of flesh and blood (not God) who wanted to teach us that message, he even said, "the kingdom of God is within us." Jesus never said he worshiped me and forgot the Father. I also don't believe that Jesus returns, and if by chance he returns, Christianity disappears because Christianity exists with the idea of ​​a Christian Jesus. I believe that if Jesus returns he will be a Jew like when he died, and he will continue to say, "love the Father with all your strength." Jesus would not understand what Christianity is because he did not know Christianity. Christianity is the theology of Paul of Tarsus. Well I have a lot more to say because I did my own research but this is enough and I want to remind you that I am not trying to change anyone's faith. I'm just trying to use logic. But the way greetings from a Peruvian guy.

[@ktermalkut8332]

JESUS claims that HE is ALIVE - why don't you ask HIM to show you if HE is The PROMISED MESSIAH and how HE was born. I am a convert from being strictly roman catholic (which I found had the same spirit as the OCCULT which was commonly combined with all religions in my country) to REPENTING and being BORN AGAIN of The SPIRIT of YEHSHUAH (JESUS) according to Acts 2:36-39. I was completely healed of a hereditary heart condition praying in TONGUES - the pure language promised to those BORN AGAIN of The SPIRIT of YEHSHUAH, over 10 years ago. There is deceptive healing by demonic powers and those do not last and/or the person ends up being in a worse position than they were before. Being familiar with the occult we knew this Truth. It is the same with roman catholic exorcism. I DO NOT IDENTIFY with any religion including christianity. We are called into a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP with The LORD GOD as Our ONLY FATHER and TEACHER - Matthew 23:8-10, Jeremiah 31:31-35, Hebrews 8:10, 10:16, Psalms 32:8. The CHALLENGE is to align our SOULS with The REALITY OF OUR SPIRITUAL NEW BIRTH so that we walk in the supernatural 24/7.

[@patricktilton5377]

I once read somewhere -- and for the life of me I can't remember where -- an interpretation for 'Pantera' being derived from the Egyptian 'pa neteru', meaning something like "House of (the) God," a way of referring to a big-wig, an exalted person who may have been from royal blood. The theory may have had some connection to the Aten-cult of Akhenaten, and its supposed relationship with the Moses story. In Hebrew there's a word spelled N-T-R [the 'T' being a Teth, not a Taw], which means something like 'Keeper' or 'Watcher' or 'Continuer', which might denote dynastic continuity, or the idea of maintaining genealogical records pertaining to an important bloodline, or keeping such a bloodline going, the Hebrew word supposedly being an Egyptian term [neteru] adopted into the Hebrew vocabulary. I couldn't say as to whether this is plausible or feasible, but there have been those who believe that Akhenaten was the basis for the biblical Moses, and that the famous Copper Scroll had something to do with the maintaining of the 'heretical' Egyptian Aten-cult outside the territory of Egypt in neighboring Canaan. Let's not forget that Joseph (son of Jacob/Israel) was married to an Egyptian woman who bore him Ephraim and Manasseh, whom Israel adopted as his own sons, they being the 'fathers' of the two northern tribes which became synonymous with the Northern kingdom of Israel after the split from the southern Davidic kingdom of Judah in post-Solomonic times. If the patriarch Joseph's wife were of Egyptian royal blood, then surely this trait would be cherished by her sons, and might well account for there having been some kind of rivalry with the later Davidic dynasty descended through Judah [the 'Sceptre'], with Jeroboam perhaps being of that Ephraimitic Egyptian royal lineage. So . . . IF there actually WAS an historical Jesus, then perhaps his actual lineage involved a merger of the royal Egyptian blood passed down through Joseph's wife in Pre-Exodus times to this 'Pantera'/'Pa neteru' fellow, with the royal Davidic bloodline passed down through David down to Mary. Maybe there were some Jews back then who thought of the Egyptian pharaoh during Joseph's time as being a worshipper of the Aten-god, Hebraized into Adonai ['Lord'] -- maybe from the very family line of Akhenaten, if there is anything to that theory regarding Moses and Monotheism.

[@dakrontu]

It would be daft to imagine that God could let some random guy accidentally invent Monotheism. On that basis, Akhenaten would have to be a VERY significant person. Not just as an Egyptian. But to GOD. How then can this have gone unnoticed and instead we end up with stories of Moses and Jesus etc more associated with monotheism than the actual guy who IMPLEMENTED it. Something not right, here. Some sort of cover-up. And you can bet it was coz the Egyptian priests were 'not happy' with Akhenaten brushing them all aside. So of course they HAD to wipe out all trace. And meanwhile God stood idly by and let this deceit happen? So much for God, eh?

[@conradbulos6164]

All these to establish the lineage of Jesus as one of royalty which is supposed to be the highest form of human rank and value by blood and as closest to the divine by our idea of human and divine hierarchy worthy of worship and exaltation.

[@dakrontu]

The Amarna community persisted for some time. That would tie in with the 40 year sojourn in the wilderness, and the prophet Moses never reaching the Promised Land. After all, pratting around for 40 years in a desert makes no sense, it doesn't take 40 years to get to the Promised Land, you could walk round the entire planet in that time if it weren't for oceans. Akhenaten I guess died in Amarna of causes natural or otherwise. The priests wanted to get back to normality. They did that under Tutankhamun, his successor. Note Amun (Moon) and Aten (Sun). Lucky we even know anything about Akhenaten, as they tried to write him out of history. And if they had succeeded, the Bible Moses story would be the ONLY clue, but no one would have any way to determine that it was a clue, ie that anything fishy had been going on. Pretty darn amazing to invent monotheism, beating God to it, and then your 'establishment' turns against you for having abolished all their gods. To those who seek power, truth is an inconvenience.

[@alyseandrews1066]

I'm confused why this theory is so threatening for people. Why can't God work and fulfill prophesies through ordinary occurrences? Believing some of the Bible's stories are meant to be read poetically, not literally, doesn't change anything in my opinion. It's how people of that time made sense of their world and remembered their oral traditions, by symbolic language.

[@robschaller9061]

You dont understand the sacrificial system or WHY Messiah COULD NOT have a biological father. You see people who are blind can't even conceive that God created this universe and that his ways are higher than your ways. To people like you ONLY naturalistic answers are possible you try to reduce God into a small box, assuming you even believe in the concept of God

[@theCosmicQueen]

all you are saying is that you don't think God can or does anything supernatural or miraculous . wow. better not call yourself a christian then.

[@dorianphilotheates3769]

Alyse Andrews - So, heads you win, tails we lose, eh?

[@kcvarkeyachan2699]

Then how would he be called the eternal Son of God and the blemish less lamb of God?

[@bobSeigar]

​@@theCosmicQueen They didn't say that, you assumed that, then cast judgement. Why be adversarial?

[@juditrotter5176]

What about Bruce Chilton’s book Rabbi Jesus? Are you familiar with that book and does it 29:48 seem supported by the available written documents.

[@deenahome2060]

I appreciate the attention Professor Tabor gives to the historical realities of the life of Jesus of Nazareth while still being very respectful towards theological Christianity in all that he lectures on. He's never condescending towards traditional Christianity's beliefs in its mythological sense, and that is increasingly rare in modern biblical scholarly research. His differential approach gives me all the more confidence in considering his views more seriously. Love this channel.

[@dakrontu]

Interesting the idea that the father of Jesus was a Roman soldier. That MUST have been seized on for the plot of The Life Of Brian, in which Brian's father is a Roman soldier. (Possibly Biggus Dickus, but I would have to re-watch the movie to check.) Possibly even it strikes too close and that is why the movie raised the hackles of the intellectual Malcolm Muggeridge (who was apparently quite a clever guy, based on some excerpts I read from his autobiography, but was easily taken in by his own religious bias, eg claiming a nunnery was bathed in supernatural light, when in fact it was known that new experimental high-ASA film was used to film inside it). Anyway a number of separate clues were mentioned here and there, so surely any theologian would be able to put 2 and 2 together? So why don't they? Either there is evidence to the contrary. Or they do not WANT to put 2 and 2 together because it destroys a convenient cosy and very central feature of the religion, an inescapably fundamental tenet of the faith, without which it falls apart. One can imagine Muggeridge vehemently objecting to the idea of a non-virgin birth. (Or does it fall apart? Does anyone with a clue about science, and who has remained a believer, actually believe in a virgin birth?)

[@zz3718]

The book of Isaiah is mistranslated to say "virgin" so they need a "virgin" birth for the prophecy to be "fulfilled". Admitting that this is an error is hard for many lay people. I've have read articles where clergy have admitted that it is an error but it means nothing. They it shouldn't take away from the hopefulness found in the story, etc. Basically perpetuate the lie because it makes people feel good.

[@fcastellanos57]

I am versed in technology, and I believe totally what scripture says. Mary never had any sexual relations before Joseph because that is what she said to the angel that brought her the news of her pregnancy. I have 0 problems believing and accepting this. What is so difficult for the Creator to create His son in the womb of Mary when He has created the whole universe and all the life on earth?

[@markrossow6303]

*Naughtius Maximus

[@termikesmike]

Excuse me, where does Paul remind everyone about the importance of the “ Virgin Birth “ ? I’m a Baptist = NO Dogma necessary ! If U haven’t heard from the Holy Spirit then U ain’t there yet = belief in Popes and virgin births, and wine that turns into blood, and ‘baby sprinkles’ all “ proved bs “ btw How many here ’ believe’ that Baptists are Protestants ? Raise your hand …. that’s more of the same 'reality' U were taught. When you KNOW the Truth, The Truth will set you free ….

[@justjesus4708]

@@fcastellanos57 EXACTLY !! Could not of said it better myself.

[@The4cp]

The Bibel itself never said God impregnated Mary. Gabriel told her she would become pregnant and her son would be extremely important. Honestly all of the supernatural bs in the bible is metaphorically speaking.

[@Romans99]

Metaphorical for what purpose?

[@tedgrant2]

Did Jesus have a human father ? I suspect his father was a guy named Joseph, who happened to be the boyfriend of his mother. But because they weren't married, Mary made up the story that an Angel had done it.

[@davidfrisken1617]

Or because so many great and powerful "historical characters" were previously "born of a virgin", giving the same to the new magical guy was designed to add more clout.

[@tedgrant2]

@@davidfrisken1617 That too

[@samuelarthur887]

There is no precedent in Jewish culture. How would Mary defend that?

[@tedgrant2]

@@samuelarthur887 In Biblical times, people were quite happy to believe mental illness was caused by unclean spirits. And there are other examples in scripture of women having babies by magic tricks. (Genesis 18:14, 25:21, Judges 13:3)

[@tedgrant2]

@@samuelarthur887 Sarah gave birth to Isaac (Genesis 11:30) Rachel gave birth to Joseph (Genesis 29:31) Hannah gave birth to Samuel (1 Samuel 1:5)

[@AntonBirrer-ge3yn]

very intressting and plausable theory ... very nice work and nicely presented

[@historytheologysophia]

Thank you James great material here! It is interesting that the prophet Muhammad was an orphan and Jesus of Nazareth seems to also have had an absent father whether Pantera or some other man who was absent whether because of early death or scandal. The psychology of Jesus would be an interesting study on searching for a Father figure that will not fail. Not just a new earth and a new heaven is a motive but a new Father for religious motivation and inspiration.

[@davidfrisken1617]

But how do you know any of that?

[@michaelboano7183]

@@davidfrisken1617I am guessing that he hopes that lack of belief, faith and trust will not sink him

[@7Truth7Wins7]

"Jesus of Nazareth seems to also have had an absent father" How do you figure ?, Joseph was His "earthly" guardian, NOT His biological father, and Jesus of course KNEW His Heavenly Father from Eternity Past at 12 years old.... "And He said to them, “Why is it that you were looking for Me? Did you not know that I had to be in My Father’s house?” (Luke 2:49)

[@theCosmicQueen]

@@7Truth7Wins7 yes- the Temple in Jerusalem. His Father's House. Jesus proved His Divinity many many times. No MERE human can do or be what He did or be what He STILL IS. he lives and works miracles still today, i have had them. He raised me from the dead.Literally.

[@kcvarkeyachan2699]

@@theCosmicQueen Would be interested to hear your story/ testimony!

[@edvardzv5660]

Reading the books of the New Testament, we probably asked ourselves more than once: *"Why 2000 years we do not see those miracles that accompanied the Сhurch of Christ in the I century, as described in the New Testament?"* Why do the so-called preachers of Christ have to prove that Jesus really existed and atheists boldly deny the historicity or divine origin of Christ? Maybe because the Сhurch of Christ has not existed for 2000 years? The Сhurch does not exist in the form in which it is presented in the books of the New Testament, but there are Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant and other christian sects claiming to be the place of the Church, but they not have the only thing that distinguishes the divine from the human and is characteristic of just the Сhurch of Christ -the reinforcement of the word with signs, that is, miracles (Mark 16:15-20). Therefore, some researchers doubt the historicity of Christ, and some of them are not opposed to declaring him a an ordinary philosopher, teacher. But even if Jesus were an ordinary philosopher, his disciples would be ordinary followers of Jesus. And they would not dare to write about the miracles that not only Jesus, but also his disciples, could perform. In this world, the great fertility of atheism can be explained by the fact that there is no main opponent of critics of the Bible - the Church. If there were the Church in our time as described by the authors of the New Testament books, where miracles are performed, the sick are healed, where prophesied, and the dead are raised, no one would doubt the historicity of Christ. Then there would be the same controversy throughout the world as in the first century - Jesus the Son of God or the false prophet who seduces the world by miracles. As a result, we can say that the emergence and development of christian sects and atheism was the result of the fact that over the 2000 years the Сhurch of Christ did not exist. Find *"The Mystery about the Church of Christ"* video on KZbin. The video reveals the prophecy of the disappearance and reappearance of the Church of Christ before the End of the World. Watching this video will give hope to all who sincerely seek God and will interest those who are not too lazy to think freely. Click on my name to watch the video (The video is in Russian, but English subtitles are included).

[@antonyillam6419]

We do have miracles done after Jesus for example Thomas, St Antony and many other saints. I don't get what you are trying to say.

[@BlackJuck]

Of course he had a biological father, thats why the gospels begin with his lineage and trace it back to david, a requirement to be the messiah. The bible even mentions his brothers and sisters. The virgin birth was made up to legitimize the christians claim of divinity, similar to romulus, alexander the great, gilgamesh, sargon, ashurburnipal and julius caesar a pretty common theme amongst “divine” kings. I’m a devout christian and there is nothing wrong with acknowledging history, just focus on jesus’ works and message instead of his death and divine status, which after reading the golspels you will see he seemed to want as well.

[@mentordepret757]

Prof Tabor has an incredible knowledge and insight into these matters and I am delighted that he has taken the time to share this through all these videos.

[@kuhlgi]

The prophecy of Simeon comes to mind...the miraculous birth of Jesus Christ is a sign that causes the rising and falling of many...and the thoughts of mens hearts to be known...merry Christmas.

[@theCosmicQueen]

and in this case,the evil thoughts of evil men. Who don' t know God at all.

[@kcvarkeyachan2699]

Amen

[@MrScotchpie]

Fantastic. I am half way through your Jesus Dynasty book. When will the Mary book be available in the UK?

[@kcvarkeyachan2699]

Itching to hear fables!!!

[@jeffreyerwin3665]

Great info about Sidon and Jesus' visit there. This is the most informative video I have ever seen on U-Tube. TY Prof. Tabor.

[@davethebrahman9870]

T. Iulius Abdes Pantera was apparently from Sidon, so his name ‘Abdes’ is probably a graecised version of the Phoenician ‘Abd-Eshmoun’, ‘slave of Eshmoun’.

[@paulfisher1296]

“Is there a potential coverup?” Uhhhhhh, Yes?!

[@edwarnock9884]

When it comes to healing, I have seen people healed who remained healed. One was a young woman who I had known for several years. She had polio as a young girl and one leg was about two inches shorter than the other. Every day I watched her get off the bus upon arriving at school, with some difficulty. Point is I knew her and her family fairly well. Yet an Evangelist prayed for her in the name of Jesus, and she was healed, so much so she had to take her shoes off to walk to her car. I know and will never be able to be convinced Jesus is anything other than what the Bible says He is. Mr. Tabor's theories are highly unlikely as he ignores the Jewish religious customs and Laws of the time. He reads a lot in between the lines that is not there. The Pharisees tried to buy off the Roman guards at the tomb to say his disciples took him while they slept, (a story they still claim to be true) and if you look closely at their history, persecuted Christians and ran a smear campaign against Jesus being "that prophet like unto Moses" or the "Son of God." Accusing Jesus of being conceived in an illegitimate manner was and has always been the number one accusation they make against Jesus. In fact, to this day the descendants of the Pharisees use His name as a curse word. They did all this in the face of evidence that Jesus was no ordinary man, He healed a blind man, "blind from birth" and the Pharisees called the man's parents to testify if he was born blind to which they replied he was, but they had no idea how it came that the man could see. They became so upset they threw the man who had been blind out of the temple, meaning he was cut off from Jewish worship. To discredit a person all that is needed is to create ideas and theories to muddy the waters so everyone will think "there is no way to know." Yet there is Saul or Paul who was so convinced after his Damascus Road conversion that he testified before Nero who Paul knew was likely going to have him put to death for that testimony of Jesus being a "Son of God." To Nero Jesus was at most just the son of a strange "non-Roman god" and at least just a man. If Paul did not believe it, he never would have staked his very life on it as did the majority of Jesus original disciples and the many who came afterward. If you are interested in viewing both sides of this subject check out the KZbin channel messiah ofisrael. It is put out by Zev Porat, who was raised in the conservative rabbinical traditions. He brings many of these things out in the open.

[@dakrontu]

It is curious how many people with one foot short are 'cured' by faith healers. In a room full of people requiring healing, the number of such people would be expected to be vanishingly small or non-existent and yet they show up regularly as a party piece. It is also curious that faith healers never go to hospitals to help out. Now why would that be? So sorry, I doubt your story. It is also extremely sad how many people 'cured' by faith healers give up their REAL medicines and treatments so that they die needlessly. And then there's the great excuse that is the basis of Prosperity Theology: If something bad happens to you, it is because you didn't believe strongly enough, pray enough, or give enough money to a wealthy pastor to help with the cost of his private jets.

[@edwarnock9884]

@@dakrontu I realize that I can never persuade or convince a skeptic to change their mind, but if I can offer some evidence that can be explored by the skeptic who really has a desire to know both sides of the issue, then based on the actual documented evidence make an informed decision on their own, then I will do that. There is a book titled "The Case for Christ" by Lea Strobel an investigative reporter who set out to prove Jesus Christ as a fraud. It is a great place to start, he takes the reader down the path he took to "expose to the world the fraud of Christ." In his search he references many old texts from non-Christian sources. That could get someone started to be able to weigh for themselves the evidence. I realize you are a skeptic and at the beginning of that healing service so was I. I remember when the evangelist announced that there was going to be a healing service, my exact thought at the time was, "Yeah we'll see." On the heels of that thought was, "I don't know how this guy thinks he can tell God what to do." I was pretty much told by my parents that I had to attend this otherwise I probably would not have. But after seeing this young lady that I knew and was familiar with her physical condition, healed in such a way that there was no way it could have been faked, that changed my mind completely. Since then, I have seen an eight-year-old confined to a wheelchair get out of it and run for the first time in three years. Last I knew he was playing soccer in a boy's city league like many boys his age. A man that was told he had only a few months to live due to an advanced case of bone cancer that the doctors said was untreatable. He was prayed for, and he said he felt nothing and did not think anything really happened at the time. He was scheduled for a PET scan that next week to see how fast the cancer was moving and give doctors a better expectation of how long he might live. He went for the test and the next time I saw him; he told me the PET scan was run twice because they could not see any sign of the cancer at all. So, it is my belief Jesus still heals even today. What bothers me it this, Mr. Tabor is not really saying anything new this was said by the Sadducees and Pharisees during the time Jesus was here. They continued this "narrative" for over the past two thousand some odd years and still do, to this day. At Jesus trial they twisted about everything Jesus did and said to vilify Him. This is just more of the same, but Mr. Tabor comes out like he's discovered something new that has never been said before, and everyone swallows it hook line and sinker. If I had not seen with my own eyes, I would probably be right there with you. but I did see. One last thing there are people who have prayed for the dead to be revived and it did happen documented by doctors and police whose job it was to track such things. So, if someone really wanted to, they could search out the evidence on their own. But if they'd rather not even try, they could simply remain a skeptic. I refuse to let someone else do my thinking for me and tell me what to believe or not believe.

[@mattcaruso2520]

Thank you for writing this out.

[@calanm7880]

Awesome, her medical doctors will have been able confirm this comparing medical records to being supernaturally cured, and will have written papers covering this, likely taken up by further media. Can you point to this actual evidence? Because surely if this professional validation hasn’t been obtained then God is being robbed! Claims are cheap and frequent, actual verification is needed

[@hermithefrog629]

If the pharisees tried to bribe the guards to go away but couldn't, why did the women not see any guards when they went to the tomb? Mathew is the only gospel that mentions guards of any kind.

[@PaulParvin-b5b]

I'm upset you pushed me away... what should I wriggt a book?

[@ruthbelda3887]

Such a brilliant analysis. Wonderful!

[@Mughicoeurl]

I've been around kind and polite people before and they do use euphemisms. Not saying this was the situation, but I could see "child of God" being a euphemism for "illegitimate child", like someone could ask "who's the father" and they might say "oh, he's a child of God" , and they would say, "oh, I see" and it's understood. If someone said "you should be nice to him, he's a child of God" in this context understood to mean: "his life is hard enough. He has no earthly father. You should give him a break" but outside of this context could be misunderstood to mean he is a demigod or something, or that if you're not nice to him his father, God, will smite you.

[@anarchorepublican5954]

the Talmud is not kind and polite toward Jesus nor christians...and "Yesu ben Pantera" is not a euphemism it is clearly meant as a direct insult...

[@robschaller9061]

No, he was the Son of the Almighty. His birth, life, and death were all prophesied in the Tanakh.

[@theCosmicQueen]

But that wasn't the case at all. Jesus did many extreme miracles with hundreds or thousands of witnesses, that is how they decided to follow Him- HE PROVED HIS DIVINITY . He is still doing it today, for instance He raised me from death as a child, and healed me instantly. many have had such experiences today. I have SEEN Him come down from the sky and do this. And He left walking at light speed about 50 feet up in the air, going across the air, to tend to his other needy " sheep" as He said.. (He is the good shepherd). He came in spirit, i know because my stepdad being evil and impure, could not see Him but could feel it when Jesus did somthing to him. But a pure innocent child, can see Him: " blessed are the pure in heart , for they shall see God" --- Jesus ( on the Mt of olives i think).

[@dadedowuh]

Never let the truth stand in the way of a good story.. good for you! Be authentic and accept the results. I applaud the pragmatism in this man. Your not singing to the choir??? Are you okay 🥺

[@wruff378]

And never let the truth stand in the way of Tabor's copious speculations.

[@ChrisMusante]

@@wruff378 - don't worry... he will have a brand of ketchup named after him some day.

[@eddielopez2373]

@@wruff378at least he is transparent about his speculations-unlike the gospels and Christians.

[@stevenv6463]

There was an expulsion of Jews from the Galilee in 4 bce? How was it possible that any of the early Christian movement happened if there were no Jews there at the time? I presume it was a partial expulsion. Very fascinating discussion.

[@RizzaMaligro-p1k]

Do you believe the prophecy of prophet Isaiah 66 verse 9?If you believe,who was that man?

[@jeffjeff8562]

Matthew 10 does not contradict John 4. In John 4:4 it clearly states that they "had to pass through Samaria" on their way to Galilee. Not to mention that the disciples weren't "on their own". They were with Jesus and weren't preaching to anyone, just getting food.

[@karamyasharahla510]

Joel 3:4 “Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the coasts of Palestine? will ye render me a recompence? and if ye recompense me, swiftly and speedily will I return your recompence upon your own head;”

[@normbale2757]

Belief in a literal Hell is the ultimate perversion.

[@conradbulos6164]

A human father is more believable even as a hated Roman soldier like Pantera, a growing popular figure among biblical historicists, as the possible rapist(Mary would have resisted his advances as a bethrothed bride of Joseph) than the insistence of the Catholic church of the Holy Spirit as being the supernatural father, an impossible concept in biology where it is required to have the human female egg and a human male sperm joined together to bring about conception because the spirit world has no sex and therefore no sperm to speak and that s when the word "miracle" is introduced, meaning the divine intervenes in human affairs which can only happen in a superstitious, ignorant, hunting and fishhing

[@ktermalkut8332]

The EXTENT to which the rabbis would go to deny that YESHUAH is The MOSHIACH is beyond human comprehension because it is a battle between spiritual EVIL or unholiness and spiritual GOOD or HOLINESS. Nehemiah being born an Orthodox Jew could be affected by this spirit. In Orthodox Judaism they refer to TWO MESSIAHS or one Messiah with 2 mandates. The SUFFERING MESSIAH [as described in Isaiah 53] is MOSCHIAH BEN YOSEF (son of Joseph) and the KINGLY MESSIAH is MOSCHIAH BEN DAVID (son of David). In fact rabbi akiva who was a HUGE PROPONENT of denying YESHUAH'S MANDATE was tortured into a HORRIBLE DEATH. Don't be upset with me for saying this. The TORAH (not the talmud of the rabbis) clearly says that a person will suffer Only If they are DISOBEDIENT to YEHOVAH - Devarim (Deuteronomy) 28 - the Blessings and curses chapter. The rabbis TWIST this Truth telling the Jewish people that if they suffer on the earth they will not suffer or have less to suffer after they pass away! That is NOT what The TORAH teaches. The talmudic rabbis scorned YESHUAH - and hated HIS opposition to their EVIL ways - it is historical fact that the rabbinate was EXTREMELY corrupt at the time YESHUAH walked the earth as a human. The "VIRGIN BIRTH" story was maintained by the roman catholic sun god mother goddess pagan outfit and there is EVIDENCE that the new testament has been corrupted. One clear example is the mention of easter in Acts 12:4 when that roman catholic festival was created at least 200 years AFTER YESHUAH and HIS EARLY followers (Acts was written not long after and definitely not after roman catholicism was created) left the earth.

[@wabbitknight3937]

if people believe sarah and abraham had isaac in her 80s by angels, why don't they believe Jesus was conceived by an angel ? so its all bs

[@georgeelmasry9376]

So, Monty Python was right?

[@imankhandaker6103]

Anybody care to comment why ABSOLUTELY NOBODY finds it remotely conceivable that Joseph might have been responsible? When a women is murdered the husband is the first suspect - surely it should be the same for pregnancy? I am mystified by how you might regard your own children - but I will do my best to mind my own business.

[@thomasrhodes5013]

A soldier in an affair with a local girl might circulate amongst the guys in barracks. For this to arise 30 years later when Jesus was gaining fame was probably not from Pantera mess mates. This would have to come from people close to Joseph's people. Given the Bethlehem birth with Bethlehem so close to Mary's family in proximity, the illegitimacy was understood, and she was not permitted to give birth in family domicile. Joseph may have reluctantly accepted this besmirch as the besmirch was another burden of Roman military occupation. For Mary to have spent 3 months in early pregnancy with her cousin indicates that Joseph was not too happy with the consequences of this affair between Pantera and Mary.

[@davidfrisken1617]

Or, just make something else up.

[@mikedickison5003]

Made up speculation and nonsense. Ask for forgiveness humbly , perhaps GOD will.

[@zz3718]

If your daughter, sister, mother, etc had an affair tongues wouldn't wag? People wouldn't talk? In today's world where this has sort of behaviour is considered to be part of the human experience, people would talk. Go back 2000 years ago to a small town in the Middle East, with a population of 1000-2000 people at the most. Go back into a culture where an affair results in death by stoning. A local girl consorting with a Roman occupier (a Syrian from Sidon, a descendant of the Canaanites) would have scandalous. The culture of the period would've have been more similar to what we have in Saudi Arabia, and Afghanistan.

[@thomasrhodes5013]

@@zz3718 ...and your point is, what? i am Irish Catholic and 100 years ago an illegitimate birth would not have been acceptable, the baby would not have been born in the family's home. The fact that Mary had family, with property, and she was relegated to give birth in a stable establishes the child as illegitimate. Bethlehem is a few miles from Mary's people, and she was in labor....but she had to meet a census requirement at that moment?

[@zz3718]

@@thomasrhodes5013 a) No census took place. A census took place throughout the Empire so you have to go back to where your ancestors lived 1000 years ago? If that had happened today you as Irish man would have to go back to Celtic Spain or France, or perhaps even England or Scotland. Let's say you're "Irish" from Boston, Mass. by now you've been in the US for only 150-300 years at the most, where in Ireland would you go if you had to reach out to your hometown from a 1000 years ago. Which village, town, etc would you go to? The Romans weren't idiots. To cause an upheaval like this just for a census? What's to ensure that people go back to their present-day jobs? What happens if someone's ancestors lived outside the Roman borders, etc? b) You said it "might" be the talk of the barracks. Why would it be brought up 30 years later? In a small town in rural Galilee, everyone probably knew. Women gathering at the well would talk about it Mary and Pantera. Go home tell their husbands, etc. Mary being a young girl at the time probably didn't mask the situation to well (young love thinking it can overcome the world and all the other nieve stories young lovers have been telling themselves since time immemorial). This would've have been talked about by the people in small town rural Galilee, especially since the Romans were an occupying force and you have a local girl batting eye lids a Roman soldier.

[@karol_p]

A son of some soldier could not raise from the dead. That's more likely with a supernatural being.

[@markrossow6303]

if Ebed + Mary were married, they would have logically divorced once he was press-ganged or enslaved into the army If Ebed was a relative of Joseph (& likely of Mary to), Joseph would likely not mind -- especially if Joseph was an older widower with children

[@pamcatello9136]

In the book of Philip. Mary of magdalas brother wrote Mary's curse meaning the emaculate conception. He knew mary personally

[@johndefalco7454]

I have a question for Tabor. Can a 80 years women like Sarah get a baby or both babies belong to the young slave. In that case the Jews have to share with the Arabs the promise. Other questions: Was Abraham a man with mental issues who hear voices?

[@brottley]

there was no Abraham and Sarah, just like there was no Jesus and Mary

[@glorialoo3165]

Is anything impossible for an almighty God?

[@PaulParvin-b5b]

I already told the prime minister ......I stopped that war

[@of9490]

I like to think the Roman soldier at Jesus crucifixion was his father trying to help him.

[@lisamaria661]

Great work!!

[@OfficeV.]

Think about Yeshua as the vessel of the Spirit of God and the Son of God. Our eyes should be fixed upon the heavenly Yeshua and Son of God. The rest is only God's speaker on earth. Why should be of any importance who was the biological father of the human Yeshua? Besides, do your research about Yeshua in Afhanistan, Pakistan and Kashmir. The Bible has passages that are not historically correct. Both the birth and death of Yeshua are portraited unhuman, while Yeshua was a human. He got born of a mother so therefore at least a male sperm was needed for conception, and He could not fly through cosmos with a human body. If He survived the cross, He must have resurrected in physical body after a coma with clinical death. Therefore He could not fly to heaven in a human body. Those were the invention of Paul and Luke. Yeshua fled to Afghanistan, Pakistan and Kashmir together with his mother and brother Thomas. Following Yeshua is about following the Spirit that abode in Yeshua. The humanity of Yeshua was denied by the Jewish Romans that wrote the Gospels, but we live in the 21st century and should no better by now. Nobody can defy the laws of physics while on earth in human body. Not even Yeshua. Therefore all those incredible stories about a virgin birth, ascension to heaven and walking on waters are just additions to a life of a regular person in order to attribute supranatural powers to the character of human Yeshua. My vision of Yeshua He looked Palestinian. Had short black curly hair and bear. Dark olive skin. Thick unibrows. Big thick lips, wide ears, strong, short neck, wide prominent but flat nose just like the Pashtuns. Robust body

[@markballantyne393]

When Jesus refers to his heavenly father's house he says the sky is his throne the earth his footstool, when he refers to the temple as his father's house,his biological father, as a child he tells his mother not Joseph, I must be about my father's work biological father.

[@PaulParvin-b5b]

I didn't know you existed when I came up with my name

[@GeraldS-p5b]

If Joseph was long dead? would he not have been described as son of Mary?

[@johnpro2847]

Did Jesus have a dad .?.sure..ask Joseph why the carpet was worn into Mary's bedroom ..

[@benlassu1880]

Of course he did, His father was a Samaritan the Gospel of John 8 41 and 48 states his father was a Samaritan. It was common knowledge.

[@markballantyne393]

If Annas was the father, he may have removed the body and put it in the family tomb so any bones of someone crucified, would probably be Jesus.

[@Marabarra134]

maybe Pilate was the father and he stole the body and took it to Rome😂

[@Chandransingham]

Very interesting. Good detective work and commentary and opinions. Much later studies like Lourdes apparitions will reveal how Our Lady Mary said to the children in answer the question who was she ?, she said that she was the immaculate conception.

[@busterbiloxi3833]

Lourdes is bunk.

[@Chandransingham]

@@busterbiloxi3833 Where is the evidence for this, please? Scholars should follow historical critical method of analysis with a balanced epistemology.

[@jerrybowin5951]

You were there? I wasn’t either.

[@Chandransingham]

@@jerrybowin5951 Does it matter? We go by what is available and testimonies of reliable witnesses.

[@leylinegoddess]

here is my theory: the jewish temple had vestal virgins. in apocrypha, mary at aged 4 was presented to the high priests at the temple because she was a welcomed late life child. thus a blessing. and then she was there as many high priest temple cults had, were young women who served in the temple. served who? the high priest at the time of jesus's conception time had a second name that was jesus. thus is she was kept to service the priests and high priest, he was the son of the most high. when she became pregnant, at menarche, she was handed off to a man

[@alyseandrews1066]

That's a really interesting theory!

[@edwarnock9884]

Only one problem with this theory of yours, the Law of Moses would require the stoning of Mary and the man who in your theory engaged her. In fact, the Pharisees brought a "woman taken in adultery." They made a big deal about stoning her to comply with the Law of Moses, and desired Him to approve of the sentence. Israel was espoused to be the people of the Creator who is far different than the pantheons of the pagan nations.

[@leylinegoddess]

@@edwarnock9884 not if the high priest was requesting her to be the mother of his child. the high priest of the temple had more sway than the pharisees. . many cults had women who were there to produce children of their high priests. i am speaking of real circumstances and not religion related. the story of jesus as the son of the most high priest would have put both mary and jesus in high regard as producing heirs to the throne of david. which is part of the isaiah prophecy. and when when she was the temple virgin she was not joseph's intended. when she reached menarche or first period she would have gotten pregnant and then they would have requested joseph to now take her and espouse her even if reluctantly but to parent the oncoming special child. mary may never have known that sex with the high priest was something people would regard as bad. she was the vessel of a unique person who understood from his education and probably training from the essenes that all people were the children of god and thus holy which was very different from the separated angry and punishing god of israel. still makes for a messiah, just not a warrior type.

[@leylinegoddess]

and the history of the temple actually lists one of the high priests name as jesus. at the supposed time of the messiah's conception

[@robschaller9061]

You have absolutely NO UNDERSTANDING WHAT SO EVER concerning the operations of a JEWISH TEMPLE. You present these VILE practices of the pagans and blindly assume the same was occurring in Israel in the TEMPLE in Jerusalem and nothing could be more incorrect.

[@yoannybatista4202]

Very long stretch of speculation. There were probably more than one man named Jesus in those times. It’s ok to ask questions don’t get me wrong but what is all this obsession about disproving the ability of a creator being to do miracles? Especially with Christianity. Unless you are trying to separate the person of Jesus of Nazareth including his teachings from Christianity and hence his followers from those earlier times? It seems to me that regardless of what you believe on different subjects if you lead a life following His teachings from the heart in a ll sincerity, you will be a better human being on this planet. By it’s fruits you will know if the tree is good or not. So the focus is wrong. Focus on the good rather than the bad. Focus on love rather than hate. Plant good trees…

[@PaulParvin-b5b]

We could be a team?

[@timothy4557]

If Christ had a biological father then He'd be a "sinner".

[@TadeoNguyenHoangDiep]

Ofcourse, Jesus Christ met John the Baptist, to be *abaptized* of him 🤫(even without above assumption).

[@timothy4557]

@TadeoNguyenHoangDiep To "fulfill all righteousness." Christ was baptised for us.

[@johnpro2847]

Difference between theology and made up bed time tales...Nothing

[@sharon_rose724]

The Vedic texts, the stories of Krshna and the predictions of a "savior of humanity" through an avatar are so similar to some of the contents in the New Testament. For instance, the "law of God" in "Hinduism"/Sanatana Dharma is "dharma", righteousness and pure living. Krshna, as an avatar of the Supreme One, had an earthly kingdom. One of his names is "Devadeva" meaning "lord of lords". Kalki, the last avatar that brings righteous war and returns purity to the earth, is said to be riding a white horse with a flaming sword in hand, as Jesus is described in Revelation. And these texts go back a few thousand years before the recorded birth of Jesus.

[@sharon_rose724]

@Nothing But Love The "devil" taught righteous living, purity, union with God and being of service to others? How can it be copying if it happened first? You've never actually studied the true Dharma.. it's the same concept of Christianity. If the devil is a tempter and an adversary of God and humanity, he wouldn't be teaching love, service and union with God. That makes zero sense.

[@sharon_rose724]

@Nothing But Love "Thereafter, at the conjunction of the two yugas, the Lord of creation will take His birth as the Kalki incarnation and become the son of Vishnu Yasa. At this time the rulers of the earth will have degenerated into plunderers." [SB 1.3.25] "O Kesava, O Hari, who have assumed the form of Kalki! You appear like a comet and carry a terrifying sword for bringing about the annihilation of the wicked barbarian men at the end of the Kali-yuga." [ Sri Dasavatara Stotra, 10th Sloka] "Lord Kalki, the Lord of the universe, riding His swift (white) horse Devadatta and, sword in hand, will travel over the earth exhibiting His eight mystic powers and eight special qualities of Godhead. Displaying His unequalled effulgence and riding with great speed, He will kill by the millions those thieves and rogues who have dared dress as kings." [SB. ] Bhagavad Gita And then.. "Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations." Revelation No similarities there, right? And the Vedas and other books, written a few thousand years before the collection of the New Testament books in the Helios Biblios (translated to Sun Books) must be a copy of the books that came after it... Yeah, that makes sense.

[@paulustarsus]

If Jesus stated, "Before Abraham was born, I Am", where does that leave Jesus in the historical timeline?

[@theCosmicQueen]

the later sons of Abraham by other wives, he sent to " the east". it is known today that the Brahmins are Abrahamins. descendants of Abraham, and priestly caste. They know it and celebrate thier relation to Israelis and jews. Spiritual truths simply exist, and some get it 100percent pure but others get it a little off . but it still sounds similar. And those are like prophecies of a later time to come, in those old brahmin verses. They may speak of Jesus but they just don't know it. They will know it one day. And will become purely reconciled tot he straight truth.

[@theCosmicQueen]

@@paulustarsus It means he existed in spirit before abraham was born, and of course he spoke to Abraham and others in spirit, as i take it.. Then later Jesus was born thru a woman physically. Under the name " Yeshua".

[@markballantyne393]

Simeon and anna knew ,john baptist knew, and jesus point it out throughout the gospels

[@Dave183]

Genealogies in the gospels show Joseph to be Jesus father. Do you think these genealogies were constructs?

[@Will2Wisdom]

Genealogies are full of lies, this whole reality is, why would this be left alone?

[@ahsanrubel2869]

After 600 yrs we find the indication of fornication in the surah Mariam when they said to Mariam , “ O sister of Aron! What did you do? Your parents were good persons.” Something like that and she asked them to ask the baby Jesus who the father is…! And then baby Jesus tells that is is the prophet of god ! Something like that!

[@tonjaallen4369]

Really. The Bible says come as a child. Trust not your own understanding.

[@JamesW225]

Realistically , what do we know. I think we believe far more than we know

[@swarnamohanty3121]

May be in 34AD Jesus was crusified because he did not have a father.

[@dynamic9016]

Very interesting information .

[@PaulParvin-b5b]

Remember me?

[@ArrepentiosyVividRepentAndLive]

I cannot even imagine the reward that has God waiting for you @james tabor. This way says our Lord Almighty, "..And I will come near you for judgment; I will be a swift witness, against sorcerers, against adulterers, against perjurers,..; For I am the Lord, I do not change; therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob. Yet from the days of your fathers you have gone away from My ordinances and have not kept them. Return to Me, and I will return to you,” says the Lord of hosts. “But you said, ‘In what way shall we return?’ (Malachi 3:5-7

[@Will2Wisdom]

There will be a reward for you as well

[@timechols8877]

Is there any archaeological evidence on Jesus' miracles

[@edwarnock9884]

Read Josephus and what he had to say about Jesus, you'll be surprised. Josephus was not a Christian but a Jewish scholar and historian. He had "no dog in the hunt," yet he records that Jesus healed people and performed miracles.

[@georgeelmasry9376]

@@edwarnock9884 are you marketing forgery?

[@theCosmicQueen]

there is current medical evidence for His miracles he does today.

[@christinehaley8097]

I want to read his book about Mary! I've always had the interest and so little is known.

[@TheZinmo]

How about that: The young man is not accepted by the girls parents - wealth, social status, religion etc. - so he willingly joins the roman army, as so many people did in the time. The romans did not need to press-gang locals into their fighting force, they came wllingly, and it was custum to send them to the other side of the empire - where they could not be part of a local uprising.

[@notanemoprog]

Very interesting! As for the reference to _Secret Mark_ and your personal conviction that Morton Smith did not "fake" it (of course the forgery could still be in play but by someoene else in distant past) , it would be wonderful to get your deep dive into the topic, because as far as I'm aware the case for forgery is pretty strong on many different levels (text character itself, context of discovery/"discovery", contents of text)

[@itay-w3o]

I didnt understand. He think jesus was born in a virgin birth or not?

[@PaulParvin-b5b]

I was trying to find my blood line to see if dad was a loser when I found out about it then I actually identify found you...I was trying to discover who I am and where I came from

[@geraldmeehan8942]

Very interesting discussion. Keep up the good work, gentlemen

[@1devoch]

Where you should begin is that Jesus was a black guy and that Jesus could have been more of a title than an actual name. 🤔

[@PaulParvin-b5b]

Please look up parvins English family crest.... I'm supposed to be French German russian....we had a Russian saint hood there someplace my dad and mom never knew my brother never knew we had Russian in is and paulus. There are 2

[@RalphEllis]

Panterra. Or Pa-Neter-Ra. Meaning My God Ra. And a Son of God? Most pharaohs were sons of god. Tuthmoses, Ramoses, Ahmoses - Son of Thoth, Ra, Yah… Why cannot Tabor look outside his irrational Christian box, and see the rational real history.? And why is the Gormless Gnostic still mired in his Christian fundamentalism? Ralph

[@davethebrahman9870]

Hey Ralph, none of that fits. ‘Panthera’ is Greek word, meaning ‘panther’, and as Tabor says it is attested as a name both in the ancient literature and in epigraphy.

[@theCosmicQueen]

But weren't those just metaphorically sons of a " god"? not literally. Jesus is LITERALLY.

[@PaulParvin-b5b]

This is mine don't take it from me dude...it's mine...you die twice when raised from the dead

[@wabbitknight3937]

Sumerian literature is where all faiths originated.

[@debmunsell1720]

Oh how we'd love to do a DNA on Jesus. What would we see? Oh I like this thought syream.

[@theCosmicQueen]

you would see only his mother's dna.

[@kcvarkeyachan2699]

@@theCosmicQueen search videos by Ron Wyatt and Jesus blood on the ark

[@abelchavez8786]

If you call on the name of Jesus Christ you reincarnate but Jesus is a code name for Human being not a singular person but the whole of humanity.. I think they proved reincarnation by having one killed but really he commuted suicide and came back and the shroud of Turin is the proof for reincarnation .. I’m trying to think hard how would reincarnation work - something about the Roman and Jew perhaps if we mingle (everything opposite of Bible) .. we have to think critically about this very deep but the spark is there they have proved it (My Theory and it does make sense )

[@PaulParvin-b5b]

Paulus was a soldier...a commander

[@PaulParvin-b5b]

I figured out the number of the beast. . .and I figured out when you raise a man from the dead you have to die twice.. my name is parvin

[@MitzvosGolem1]

As per Torah Tanakh Talmud Hebrew Scripture Judaism ( which came up with a Messiah idea) The messiah must come from King David's paternal biological father and fulfil Isaiah 2 and 11 Ezekiel 37 first time he comes no second coming of Messiah.. Jesus fails all these requirements..

[@kcvarkeyachan2699]

And Jesus said, God is able to bring forth sons for Abraham out of stones.

[@ChrisMusante]

2nd guessing. Allow me to enlighten you... "Because you listened to your wife." Shalom.

[@kjm4939]

So, Jesus was not virgin born; neither was he raised from the dead? You just lost me.

[@machavelli777]

it is hard to stare at the sun(truth) for too long. Most humans are in denial of death so you are just another fearful decaying human who needs myth. Which is not bad its normal unless you use the myth to hurt others

[@7Truth7Wins7]

@@machavelli777 It is Written: "Jesus said...Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My Word he shall never see death.” (John 8:51) "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life." (John 5:24) "....that through death, Jesus might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. " (Hebrews 2:14,150

[@PaulParvin-b5b]

Bro froze to death

[@damienconnor2370]

Well if he didn't how could he have existed?

[@PaulParvin-b5b]

Everyone's trying to show they love him more it's me

[@PaulParvin-b5b]

When you made me think you loved him more I......I became upset

[@PaulParvin-b5b]

I didn't know I was a brother Mr. Tobin...soon I'm checking to see if I have it in me... I believe DNA.......WILL FOLLOW THE SPIRIT

[@AllOtherNamesUsed]

It is well known in the Talmud names or titles would be altered to create a new name as a mockery, in this case Panthera would be from Parthena (not parthenos) when the ‘n’ and ‘r’ swap places. Another example is Yeshua is referred to as Yeshu as an acronym for 'may his name be blotted out.' There are many examples in rabbinic writings. Odd how Tabor thinks suggesting this obvious and common practice is considered odd and deflects away from it with 'theories' (or rather conspiracy theories?) as he calls them.. Right and skeptics of the creation of Adam also say it was all myth too. Regarding the virgin/almah prophesy in Isaiah, Rashi admitted almah could be a virgin depending on context. Translators used the term for virgin when they translated the Hebrew to Greek in the LXX prior to the time of Yeshua Jesus. What’s very telling is that the highly authoritative Targum among rabbis going back to the 2nd century spells out Messiah in Isaiah 9 where the prophesy of a promised son picks up again from chapter 7 (showing the prophesy wasn’t just pertaining to current circumstances but was foreshadowing greater fulfillment in the Messiah - like many prophesies do) and again spells out Messiah in Isaiah 53 regarding the unnamed suffering servant, who Jacob also foreshadows (as named in earlier portions of the text, and Isaiah himself in ch 49 in the servant role trying to bring back apostate Jacob, which shows there are two Israels/Jacobs, ie "not all Israel is of Israel" spiritual vs fleshly). From the beginning Isaiah shows there are two seeds of Israel, a wicked Israel and a righteous Israel (His servant), like the seed of the serpent vs seed of the woman (rather than man's seed - hinting at a unique virgin birth). The NT text as well as earliest external traditions (incl the Eastern Traditions out of Antioch who have the Aramaic Peshitta with unbroken tradition that it was given during the times of the apostles - which is why it is missing the last 5 books, as they hadn’t been written yet) confirm it was written and canonized by the apostles and their oversight. Even the Talmud of all places corroborates this and associated the Sadducees with it, and the priesthood was almost all of this sect and the text mentions that many believed In Christ and they would have the skills, materials and knowledge and Torah authority for this task, despite the partyline of most western academia who also claim the old testament was not written in the time it claims to have been and is mostly myths.

[@AllOtherNamesUsed]

Re: pagans myths of virgins or gods having children God takes credit for the star signs (mazzaroth/ zodiac) in Gen 1.14 known universally since the earliest records the world over. Some constellations are named throughout scriptures. The whole world knew of the universal savior (the desire of nations/ women) promised back in Eden long before Israel existed and the Seed of the woman prophesy is formatted in the constellation Virgo/Bethulah bearing the alpha star Spica/Zera (seed) and is depicted over the new moon in the star map of Rev 12.1-3 reflecting the earthly event of Yeshua’s birth on Rosh Hashanah 3 BCE. This and other deep celestial events (ie, star of Bethlehem which is wandering star Zedeq, "Righteousness" a title of Messiah, or Jupiter in retrograde motion "stopping" over Bethlehem, and was known as the king star worldwide, in the king constellation Leo (tribe of Judah) in conjunction with the king star (fixed star) Regulus/Melek, etc, which is what led the magi (most likely from Babylon or Persia) out of the east to the young Messiah. This can still checked today with astronomy software, I have verified it myself and found other surprises. It's literally a sign of cosmic proportions from heaven only recently discovered matching up with the original Messianic prophesy of the 'Seed of the woman' which suggest a unique or miraculous birth as the male carries the seed, and was fulfilled when Miriam gave birth to Yeshua who was claimed to be a virgin with accompanying signs from relatives including in the temple linked to the birth of John the Baptist as a witness, and from the magi. Abraham was part of the plan, called out of the distortions of the star signs into idolatry and horoscopes by paganism, and was promised the Seed through which the nations would be blessed and according to tradition and clues from the text he was a magi. Paul quoted Psalm 19 (about the universal knowledge of the zodiac/mazzaroth) when making the point that the nations knew the essential gospel of the promised universal savior, and positively quotes Aratus’s poetic study on the zodiac. The whole world was expecting the world savior, not just tiny Israel, that’s why the nations had various expectations in their myths but Israel was selected as the priestly nation that would bring the light of Christ to the nations.

[@JeWCyDuDe]

@AllOtherNamesUsed wrong. Israel itself is the light to the nations and the NT is Roman fabrication. Jesus wasnt messiah and never will be. He also never wrote anything NOR is there any eyewitness testimony of his existence.

[@Darisiabgal7573]

@@AllOtherNamesUsed I thought I would just make some random comment to your random comment.

[@JeWCyDuDe]

Wow comment but don't bother listening. How scholarly of you. Geez...get a clue

[@paul1der]

Yeshu is not a slander. It's a very common shortening which is found on many ancient jewish tombs. The rabbis have invented a clever explanation to say that one letter was dropped for some mystical reason they prefer. There is a book on Jewish names on Jewish tombs. I don't remember the name but it's out there and Yeshu is very common.

[@joansingleton5248]

Dna blood tests showed that the blood type was A negative and there was only 24 chromosomes instead of the normal 46 23 from His mother and One from the Father. I am the Alpha and Omega the Beginning and The End. Ron Wyatt was an archeologist who went looking for and found Calvary and The Ark of the Covenant.

[@twitherspoon8954]

_"Dna blood tests showed that the blood type was A negative and there was only 24 chromosomes instead of the normal 46..."_ Source? _"Ron Wyatt was an archeologist..."_ Nope. And he's a well-known fraud.

[@TheAnonymous-d4l]

ron wyatt turned out to be a money thirsty scammer.

[@markhauserbible7168]

When I hear these intellectuals talk about Gods word I'm reminded of the verse Heb11:6 Without faith it is impossible to please God. To God be the Glory

[@Will2Wisdom]

I don’t think he is just an intellectual, doesn’t sound like one.

[@Stardust475]

Yeshu Notzri, and Jesus of Nazareth are different people.

[@jamescareyyatesIII]

Sure. The Easter Bunny is J's dad.