Did Kevin Garnett Reach His Full Potential? | Bill Simmons’s Book of Basketball 2.0 | The Ringer

In this excerpt from ‘Book of Basketball 2.0,’ Bill Simmons is joined by ESPN’s Jackie MacMullan to reflect on the singular career of Kevin Garnett. They determine his ultimate impact on NBA history, and debate how much of a waste his early years were, stuck on year after year of bad Timberwolves teams.
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[@TheShachattack13]

I can think of no superstar in nba history that wasted more peak years in a losing situation

[@rushchax]

tmac in orlando

[@shasankamadduri1998]

@J w Lebron?? from 06-10 and then 2018

[@RestaurantPOSForMac]

@J w Exactly how I always felt about KG. There are some guys who no matter what players are around them even when they're not surrounded by other stars they still look like they are on team that could contend. Right now thats Giannis and Harden, in the 00s it was Dirk where Dallas had Terry as his defacto #2 before getting over the hump. KG was a guy who got treated as if he was on that level but clearly just always was a tier down as an elite #2 and not Lebron, Shaq, Duncan, Dirk, Steph, Kobe etc

[@Jmxd21]

Soon to be Giannis 😂

[@JoeSmithGOAT]

@@shasankamadduri1998 Lebron in 2018 had another All Star in his team and was labeled as having '2 starting lineups' before the season started.

[@yd856]

I love KG so much, that intensity is missed today.

[@dearmas9068]

Westbrook and Butler both bring it like that. Well... they used to?...

[@kawaiiafangirl]

@@dearmas9068 True. Draymond is like that too but he's obviously not the star of his team like Russ and Jimmy are.

[@AceManning18]

I don't think any of those guys have the pure maniacal intensity all the time like KG did. Maybe Westbrook

[@Webbywood]

I love Jackie and Bill together. I could listen to them for days

[@jhurd24_]

Totally agree. Jackie is one of the few analysts I can stand. She doesn’t say things solely to be provocative and always seems well reasoned.

[@d.a.b.2336]

For sure. I don't know why but I want to see Jackie and Doris Burke do an episode together

[@teoamo_]

They’re great together but in doses. Some of their longer podcasts together just turn into Boston Celtics jerk circles about halfway through.

[@brandonwhite4992]

Was going to say this same thing

[@bikingchupei2447]

agreed, i think jackie was on bills podcast months or even years ago talking about the celtics stories when she was still a young reporter, those stuff were so fun listening to.

[@enaidealukal4105]

He would have been even better today, he's the best pick-and-roll defending big in NBA history and the biggest knock against him was always that he would struggle inside against the massive scoring centers back in the 90s (Shaq, Yao, Tim Duncan, etc) which basically don't exist anymore (outside of Joel Embiid). Under-rated passer too, one of the best passing bigs in NBA history.

[@pplRretards]

Embiid is soft tho and isn't a dominant post player at all! KG would punk Emiid! Just think bout it like you said KG "struggled" vs the massive bigs in the late 90s early 2000' yet he was a 4x rebound champ and had a 6 year span of averaging more then 12 boards a game! KG during a 9 year span from 98-99 to 06-07 averaged 22.4 points, 12.6 rebounds, 5 assist, 1.4 staels and 1.7 blocks a game while having a average Usage Rating of only 27.1 and never had a usage rating more then 30 in his career while Embiid has a 34.8 adage rating for his entire career! Could only image the numbers that KG would put up in today's nba with the faster pace and style of play smh the last 5 seasons in the NBA the league has averaged almost 10 more possessions a game then the league average during KGs career! Garnett would have a field day in the mid range in today's game with all the spacing! Imo KG is absolutely one of the all time greatest all around big men to ever play the game! When I say all around big men i mean can literally do it all whether it be scoring low post, mid range shooting, passing and defensively whether it be man to man, team, interior or perimeter defense the only big man better then KG was Hakeem imo! He put up +26k points, +14k rebounds, +5k assist, +1800 staels and +2k blocks for his career! When you looks at it all he's 21st in all time points, 10th all time in rebounds, 55th all time in assist, 19th all time in steals and 20th all time in blocks! Only knock on KG was that he was way to loyal and stayed with a shit franchise that still yo this day can't figure shit out and traded for Gobert giving up 3 unprotected 1st round picks 2023, 2025 and 2027, protected first tound pick in 2029 and a pick swap in 2026 along with their best perimeter defenders in Beverly, Jarred Vanderbilt and Malik Beasley which they needed to have around Gobert lmfao oh and their 1st round pick in this last year's draft Walker Kessler who honestly could've gave them exactly what they are getting from Gobert as hes averaging 1.6 blovks per game with just 15 minutes a game while Gobert is averaging just 1.4 blocks a game with 31 minutes a game lmfao Kessler per 36 minutes stats are 11.7 points, 11.4 rebounds and 3.8 blocks almost 3x the amount Gobert is giving Minnesota smh

[@enaidealukal4105]

@@pplRretards Yeah "struggled" isn't even the right word, because he did as well as anyone else defending those players... its just that Tim Duncan and Shaq were really really good, and so no one was able to shut them down, including KG (along with literally everyone else). The other reason people say he "struggled" against players like that is because the Timberwolves usually lost to those teams (Lakers, Spurs, etc)... but as KG himself said many times, hoops isn't tennis, its not about any individual, its a team game- and Tim Duncan and Shaq simply had better teammates and better teams around them, that isn't KG's fault.

[@AceManning18]

I can't imagine any Centers guarding him today unless they stick someone like Giannis on him. You know he would be able to hit 3s too with how he shot the mid range j. It was money.

[@adgee5401]

The West was loaded during this era. Not only all time great players, but all time great teams.

[@noahraymond244]

100% KG had one of the worst situations for almost 15 years. If u gave him the coach and teammates Duncan had we’d be talking about KG as the best PF ever and Duncan as a top 5 PF with a great career but far less chips.

[@joespitzer977]

Which is way Kobe's supremacy over the west from 08' - 10 should have him as top 5 at worst.

[@88smjls]

He wasn’t a transcendent offensive player who could carry a franchise to greatness. Great point by Simmons about the gears.

[@guillermovazquez1084]

I think it had more to do with Minnesota being a horrible franchise

[@swpdisciple]

@@guillermovazquez1084 yes and no. Great player. His only weakness was that he had no go-to move. He was the perfect piece for the 2008-12 Celtics.

[@guillermovazquez1084]

@@swpdisciple yeah you're right his only offensive weapon revolved around getting a midrange jumper, similar to AD now, but ADs handle is alot better

[@harrygarris6921]

@@guillermovazquez1084 KG was one of the best supporting superstars of all time, but yeah to be a #1 guy in the playoffs you need to be an elite offensive player, and KG wasn't unfortunately.

[@swpdisciple]

@@guillermovazquez1084 AD can shoot out to 3 and is better on the block. KG actually has a better midrange and is a better rebounder and passer but AD is much better at rim protection and offensively overall. At first glance AD seems like some version of KG but upon closer inspection, he’s a smaller David Robinson.

[@Ghtng]

KG is my favorite player of all time. Unmatched competitor. I miss that type of fire in players today.

[@nedkelly5688]

He prolly has ADHD

[@enaidealukal4105]

As a Timberwolves fan I hated when we traded him at the time, but in retrospect I'm glad it happened because it meant I got to watch him win a title which was never going to happen here. The guy honestly should have had 3 or 4 titles (he was just as good as Tim Duncan), but the Timberwolves were that fucking bad.

[@alexjimenez6893]

I loved Minnesota KG. Energetic, Emotional Fire, and Hyped.

[@alexjimenez6893]

Kevin Garnett was a great player!!! Loved the way he played the game.

[@capitanawesome44]

I 100% agree with you... until he won a title!! Then he became an arrogant ass who would crawl on the floor during games, had his hand in Jose Calderon’s face during an entire possession and called Charlie Villenueva a cancer patient.

[@alexjimenez6893]

@@capitanawesome44 That's the one thing I didn't like about KG post 2008 when his skills started to decline, because he became more confrontational, instigator and started fights with opponents such as Melo, Dwight, Bogut, LeBron, Wade etc...

[@frankenviews4069]

What really puts KG high up above a lot of players 2010-2020 is that he was a two way All Star level player for many many many years.

[@LeviDavidSchaffer]

KG is one of the only things that we have in sports history. And we love him here and he loves us more then Boston so yea he is our goat. If sam dont get injured there in 04 we the champs

[@Riles3152]

If KG would have had a complete team around him in his prime years, he might have gone down as the Bill Russell of his era. He was one of the greatest all-around big men to ever play the game and was the heart and soul of every team he's ever been on. That said, I think he has to be ranked lower than Duncan and Dirk. If you want to put him ahead of Webber, Barkley and even Malone, then I wouldn't have a problem with that.

[@maul685]

Kevin Garnett and Chris Webber my two favorite players had some incredible battles from mid 90s to mid 2000s...

[@enaidealukal4105]

KG vs Tim Duncan were the ones I remember most

[@danielroth3714]

He could’ve pulled an AD at age 27 and force a trade but he’s absurdly loyal. Dame Lillard, Dirk level.

[@ccae07]

You do kno he didn’t play all his years in Minnesota lol

[@ccae07]

Y’all so quick to diss AD but say nothing about that Celtics super team just because ownership did it smh I hate y’all fans

[@brettsalisbury3245]

@@ccae07 except KG made it 14 years on the Twolves lmao long enough for most players careers

[@brianbadonde9251]

@@ccae07 yes, because Garnett waited 14 years before leaving, and it was free agency, not a trade like AD. Completely different.

[@ccae07]

@@brianbadonde9251 no it just means Kg only finished with 1 ring because he didn’t put his foot on ownership necks like the other stars who forced a trade , now AD n Kg have 1 chip apiece and AD has a chance to be better all time than Kg

[@gosha20110915]

Garnett has only 9 playoff games with 30 points in his entire career Duncan has 32 with 30+ and 4 games with 40+

[@omarcoptan8666]

Garnett's most playoff appearences came after he was 13 years in. Not his fault he was on minnesota, its virtually impossible to win there and he got em to the wcf

[@Damianoutlaw]

@@omarcoptan8666 BULLCHIT. Maybe.....just maybe the reason the T-Wolves couldn't win in the post season was that their best player was not capable of consistently scoring 30 points in the playoffs. If KG scored more then his team would have won more in the playoffs. People act like KG is the only superstar to be ever dealt with a below average supporting cast.

[@rapstallion6615]

@@Damianoutlaw Your basketball knowledge is underwhelming. You seem like a strictly analytics/numbers guy. KG's worth can't be calculated through his stats alone. If you had watched him play during his hey day, you'd know why people who know the game like Bill and Jackie have such a high respect for his impact on the game, and why he's ranked on Bill's list ahead of so many other guys who have way more rings.

[@Damianoutlaw]

@@rapstallion6615 Let me guess...your basketball knowledge is based on giving your favorite player every excuse in the world on why he could barely win or score in the post season. 2002-2004 are the only years that KG was an ever an elite post season performer. At Kevin Garnett's peak he wasn't as good as Dirk, Duncan, Shaq or Kobe. I watched his whole career. Kevin Garnett is one of the more overrated superstar players of all time. Garnett could not consistently score in the 4th quarter. He had to have other players(Paul Pierce, Sam Cassell, Chauncey Billups Or Ray Allen) do that if he wanted any chance to win in the playoffs.

[@blackviking2079]

@@Damianoutlaw It's not that he wasn't capable in my opinion he's a better scorer than Duncan when he's aggressive but he always went out of his way to be too unselfish always passing up shots to get that assist to pad his stats

[@jonathankim6755]

KG was a beast on defense. I remember those finals with the Lakers and he was just so long and quick in the paint, just a force. But the comparison to Duncan is kinda shocking to me. Timmy has 5 rings come on now.

[@jonathansykes4986]

KG is top 15. It's not that bad of a comparison.

[@MyMegaMango]

Karl ahead of KG? I don’t know about that one chief.

[@antoni.guzman]

And Barkley lol

[@F33TUS]

@@antoni.guzman Why wouldn't Karl be over Charles?

[@d.luvevo711]

@@F33TUS Why would he be? Chuck was better, Karl had better teams and still didn't win.

[@behtashbahador6588]

I think Bill's list is GOAT not BOAT i.e. Greatest not Best. Jackie Mac highlighted this at the end of this video. It's not about their abilities and talent but about their career accomplishments, which DOES NOT correct for context (eg. better teams/teammates, less competitive conference). You can argue that Barkley was better ("more skilled") than Malone, but the Mailman had more finals appearances, much much higher scoring, more first team all NBA selections, longer career. KG has that ring though so for me that would tip the scale and put him over Karl.

[@F33TUS]

@@d.luvevo711 How did Karl have better teams? Chuck played with Dr. J, Moses Malone, Mo Cheeks, Andrew Toney & Bobby Jones for the first three years of his career. Then he played with Kevin Johnson, Dan Majerle, Tom Chambers, Danny Manning, Cedric Ceballos, A.C. Green & Danny Ainge in Phoenix. Then he played with Hakeem and Clyde Drexler but lost to Karl in the conference finals. Barkley played with plenty of talent but had less career longevity and career achievements. Of course Karl should be over Barkley.

[@mrmacross]

When it comes to talent, statistical efficiency, and clutch-time performance, KG is the power forward version of David Robinson. I'd say neither guy quite reached their potential, but not out of lack of effort or dedication. We all knew these guys could carry teams through the regular season, but in the postseason they didn't really have that extra gear. But if you pair either of these guys with a guy who could make the big-time shots in the playoffs, you're set.

[@mike04574]

never reached? guy was an mvp and won a ring.. all time great

[@mrmacross]

@@mike04574 You can be an all-time great and never reach your absolute, full potential. KG and Robinson were both guys who were better in the regular season than the postseason. If you just look at regular season stats, Robinson's heights surpass Hakeem's, and KG's surpass Duncan's, but most people say Hakeem and Timmy were better because of playoff performances.

[@steelwall4396]

@@mrmacross KG didn't fail to rise in the playoffs. His skills just don't align with volume scoring In the playoffs he's more valuable than the regular season. A Swiss army knife on defense makes him impossible to gameplan against and his offense could play off of any other ball-handler with two legs and a working dribble The reason he's not seen as a playoff performer is because his teams were garbage and he wasn't a 30 ppg guy, but watch 08 again. He outplayed peak Kobe in the finals despite his advanced age. Guy was a menace in the playoffs, Minnesota just gave him no help

[@mrmacross]

@@steelwall4396 Kobe (RIP) was only 2 years younger than Garnett. When you take into account minutes played leading up to the 2008 playoffs, Garnett was at around 40K and Kobe was around 37K, so Garnett really only had about one season's worth of workload more than Kobe. And I get that he seemed old because that was his 12th season (and final prior to his devastating knee injury), but I don't think you can point out his advanced age compared to Kobe when they're more like contemporaries. But I think the point here is that Garnett never became that clutch playoff scorer is why I and others think he never quite met his potential. You look at his playoff scoring efficiency during his MN days and his performance dropped off a bit in the playoffs. To be fair, a lot of that has to do with playing better defenses, but I look at him and think his offensive ceiling was scoring 22 ppg on 46% shooting in the playoffs? Garnett was great for so many reasons, but I think as good as his career was, something felt missing. I know we overrate volume scorers in general, especially today, but I feel like the all-timers all have that moment when they put up huge scoring numbers in key playoff situations. So to me, Garnett is up there with David Robinson.

[@steelwall4396]

@@mrmacross This is a reasonable line of thinking, but fails to take into account that aging (in a basketball sense) isn't linear KG peaked in 02-04 (a top 10 peak ever btw) while Kobe peaked in the 06-08 seasons So despite KG being several years removed from his prime, and Kobe being in the thick of his, KG was still able to decisively be the best player in the 08 playoffs. A testament to his incredible value We've had great players who weren't super efficient volume scorers. KG, Olajuwon, and Bill Russell come to mind. That's surely 3 top 10 players ever. Bird and Magic are also on that list. As for his scoring dip, don't forget that many of his playoff runs he didn't have a PG. All of his contemporary PF's thrived off of good guard play that KG never got to have (Duncan, Dirk, Malone, Barkley, Giannis, AD)

[@SJO897]

AD was smart enough to leave, KG should have done the same. Loyalty is stupid within a hyper capitalist business like the NBA

[@Jmxd21]

Absolutely correct!

[@musafacayirgezer8151]

If they can they should but that is undoubtedly bad for the game. NBA after fixing the 3 or draw a foul type of game should fix the free agency and curb the player powers

[@adgee5401]

It’s hard to walk away from more guaranteed money than you can get anywhere else.

[@rafisanders]

You have recency bias, a lot of players pre 2005 didn't leave their teams. Their was a sense of loyalty to their city.

[@Anthonycheesman33]

Loyalty doesnt exist in Sports

[@sebastianpedone7209]

Amo escuchar a Jackie MacMullan, ojala aparezca mas veces en el pod.

[@pancon5]

I'd pay for that updated pyramid. Publish it already Bill!

[@reylunod3337]

I wish he was selfish when scoring the basketball but KG really was a pass-first guy. The only player ever to be in the Top 50 in points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks. He was a versatile monster.

[@jaytorr6701]

Duncan. End of story. I would say that the past 30 years the best players we have seen are MJ, LeBron and Duncan. Until last year I would put Duncan ahead of LeBron. I also think that peak Duncan is ahead of peak LeBron, given that he was the league's top defender, top rebounder, top shot blocker and top 10 scorer for a large part of his career, while at the same time setting leadership on SA.

[@hardwoodthought1213]

I have Duncan as the 4th greatest player ever, so I love the dude, but peak LeBron is just a different animal. At any point he could chose to be the leagues best scorer, passer, or defender. Not even MJ had that ability

[@steelwall4396]

KG was better than Duncan at their respective peaks. As far as seasons of the 2000's KG only lags behind Shaq and maybe 09 Lebron Not to mention he's the best leader you could ask for, and was a bona-fide superstar from 01-10. If he played for a contender his whole career we'd likely regard him as every bit as important as Duncan and more valuable than Kobe

[@ccselmo9363]

@@steelwall4396 Lebron is no leader lol

[@steelwall4396]

@@ccselmo9363 Reading must be hard with your room temperature IQ. I get it even if watching you is sad 😔

[@vladtheimpaler7375]

Tim Duncan was a much better scorer. He was one of the best late game scoring options in the league and KG was maybe an above average Iso scoring option, that was his biggest flaw. You can’t even put KG ahead of Dirk. Dirk carried a team with no other all-stars (let alone other superstars) to a championship. It’s for the same reason, the only skill Dirk was better than KG at was clutch scoring, which is the most valuable for winning championships.

[@harrygarris6921]

I agree. I used to value defensive players more highly but the thing I've realized is that playoff success almost always comes from teams who have a guy who can generate efficient offense against elite defense. Role players can step up and play D, most guys in the NBA play a lot harder on defense in the playoffs than they do the regular season. But role players can't necessarily turn it up a level on offense. You need a star who can do that. I think that's why the Heat did so well in the playoffs this year and the Bucks struggled, the Heat had that guy and the Bucks didn't have one.

[@arizonaFIREent]

Jason terry and j kidd were better than anyone kg played with

[@endrityzeiraj]

@@harrygarris6921 Exactly! The one premium skill that ultimately separates elite players is offensive efficiency when the entire defense is poised to defend you. It's the skill that teams are looking over and over again as the key building block. And there's only about 4-5 of those players each decade.

[@hardwoodthought1213]

@@arizonaFIREent A 38 year old Jason Kidd and 34 year old Jason Terry (who made what 1 All/Star Team in his career) are better help than a 30 year old Pierce, 30 year old Allen, and 22 year old Rondo 😂😂😂😂😂😂 Fuck off

[@jonathansykes4986]

KG is much better than Dirk.

[@Dman4901]

My favorite player who MADE me like him because of how hard he work

[@bikingchupei2447]

2:26 sam cassell will forever be remembered as the guy who was smiling while dribbling in the back court and then got a 8 second violation.

[@silewis9396]

Nah there's plenty other things to remember him for. He could be a good clutch player.. One of few guards to back you down and hit a turn around jumper... The pump fakes... The big balls dance.. The face that inspired Men in Black aliens.

[@bikingchupei2447]

@@silewis9396 lol, you almost had me.

[@andyh4518]

KG will forever be overshadowed. Duncan and (probably) Dirk are going to be viewed as better. Even in his HOF induction he'll be the third banana behind Kobe and Duncan.

[@vuk911]

Duncan and Dirk are going to be viewed as better mostly because they were better.

[@trvspvrk]

@@vuk911 Dirk ain’t better but ok

[@vuk911]

@The Ultimate He is a better rebounder and a defender, but Dirk's shooting outweighs everything. Chris Paul is better in everything except shooting than Curry, and yet Curry is a better player. That part about "can score if he wants to" I don't even want to comment. And his Minnesota years where he couldn't win a playoff serious for like 8 years don't count at all? Dallas was constantly a title contender with Dirk, basically without a single superstar.

[@rods7028]

Dirk isn't better than KG but he def had more successful career as far as team wins. Skill wise KG shits on Dirk

[@mgee1723]

@@trvspvrk dominant scorers > dominant defenders. Dirk carried his team to a title. Made the finals twice. Won more. Stayed healthier. Dirk is better

[@nedkelly5688]

The podcast Bill did with KG and Adam Sandler for Uncut Gems was hilarious. KG was telling Bill he doesn't know anything about basketball lmao

[@joits]

The whole "we broke Lebron" nonsense! Lol. And then he shits on Lebron for leaving and joining a "super team" when KG did the exact same thing! I won't doubt his intensity and his talent, but the whole pod he was acting like they were a dynasty when they won 1 ring.

[@salsa_blanco]

KG is the most underrated player in NBA HISTORY!!!! His stat line w/ trash for most of his career is amazing

[@hardwoodthought1213]

Kevin Love had insane stat lines on bad teams, KG wasn’t capable in the playoffs of raising his offensive game and that’s why he lost

[@DanielALeary]

No Joe Smith deal & associated penalties KG’s ‘sota teams would have been much better teams. The league wanted KG in Chicago and MN did their best to finesse the system. They weren’t good at it obviously. Wolves fandom ain’t no picnic certainly.

[@jingqi9106]

"Anything is possible!!!" - Kevin Garnett 🔥

[@bryanstarke2931]

I loved watching the league in the 2000s and the 2 guys I wanted to group up together were AI and KG. I thought those 2 would have been PERFECT together!

[@raymundfernandez4172]

Intense and tenacity

[@Menello]

Showing Monta Ellis using the computer felt like a low blow, lol

[@leokizzo3515]

He 100% didn’t reach his full offensive potential..He never even scored over 40 once his entire playoff career

[@tol5516]

because he had to do everything..sometimes even been the playmaker

[@holstorrsceadus1990]

@@tol5516 which is really telling about the kind of dude KG is. Most guys on bad teams just chase clout through offensive stat chasing and KG did the opposite. Dude killed himself crashing the boards harder, locking down on D, setting picks, and doing all the little things. Dude played championship ball on lottery teams instead of just padding his stats like every other dude would.

[@tol5516]

@@holstorrsceadus1990 you said it all my brother! He won only 1 championship but he played like a champion his whole career

[@Damianoutlaw]

@@holstorrsceadus1990 Actually....Kevin Garnett WAS padding his stats with rebounds, steals...etc to hide the fact that he was not a great scorer. KG had tons of empty stat games that in the long run meant nothing to his team winning or losing the game. 22 points 16 rebounds, 6 assists, 4 steals....but the opposing teams superstar averages 35 and the T-Wolves get beat.

[@holstorrsceadus1990]

@@Damianoutlaw scoring you can pad with shot volume. Russ pads his boards by having his big box out to give him a clear shot at the ball so he can initiate the offense without an outlet pass being necessary. Russ and Rickey Davis with the on purpose miss to try and get a triple double are the only people to ever pad their boards. I don't even know how you'd pad your steals unless you paid other guys to suck at dribbling and passing. You just made one of the dumbest statements I've ever heard. Actually putting in effort on D isn't padding your stats it's just playing defense. Putting up big numbers in game you lose is only meaningless stats if you're chucking otherwise those numbers are a tally of your fruitless efforts. Take a lap kid.

[@jsx7362]

Jackie spittin facts

[@TheCStrike2]

Havent watched the video yet. I’m guessing Bill says he didn’t until he arrived in Boston

[@LJV415]

Actually in the full podcast bill admits that Kg had lost a step by the time he had arrived in Boston

[@enaidealukal4105]

@@LJV415 Celtics KG was like 60% of peak KG, and even that was good enough for a DPoY + a title. People don't remember how absolutely insanely good peak KG was before his knees died, because who the fuck watches Timberwolves games?

[@TpolTime]

Garnett was never in the league of Duncan and that's ok. To me he's on the level of Nowitzki, Barkley, Malone etc which is pretty impressive!

[@arizonaFIREent]

Been watching the nba since 92 and I think KG was better

[@TpolTime]

@@arizonaFIREent cool I’d be interested to hear your reasoning👍

[@indmslikedeez8005]

And really not even in dirk’s league either. He’s a tier below him

[@aubhreypender3091]

@@indmslikedeez8005 what😂😂

[@indmslikedeez8005]

@@aubhreypender3091 u read what I said. They’re close but dirk has debatably more mvps than him as he should’ve won it in 06, dirk was the clear cut guy for his 1 championship, more finals mvps, didn’t have to leave the conference or his drafted team to win, revolutionized his position, both played in the same conference at the same time in their prime with an equal supporting cast and dirk had more team success as the head guy winning 50-60 games a year while kg could barely win 50, and dirk kicked kgs ass and thoroughly outplayed him in their matchup in the playoffs in 2002. Dirk is above him all time and is the second greatest pf of all time

[@alexjimenez6893]

Minnesota did an awful job surrounding KG with bad role players post 2004 MVP season. Wolves lost draft picks, due to the screw up of the Joe Smith contract.

[@Sm32004]

No one: Bill Simmons : Monta can’t type

[@TheGameAdvisor_1]

KG was so loyal that the Timberwolves didn’t even given him .5% ownership when the team was for sale. That sucks.

[@zach6395]

It wasn't a "loyal sap," era, it was the competative era where players had pride and wanted to beat the best, instead of running to other stars to save their asses.

[@MrTimLee84]

That's your opinion

[@j_r_3404]

I could go on forever about KG. I'll def say this.. People forget that the 2009 Celtics were on pace to be even better than the 2008 team until KG shredded up his knee. '08 KG was a dominant player still and should have won MVP. 2009 they win the title if he doesnt destroy his knee and they turn right around and win it again in 2010. Ending his career with a 3-peat would have changed that mans legacy by a ton. After that knee injury he just wasn't the same athletically which really affected his range defensively and ability to attack the basket.

[@hardwoodthought1213]

Still wasn’t better than Duncan, but I do agree he deserved 08 MVP and was the best player on the 2000 Celtics, but most players suffer injuries which would have swayed their careers

[@louky2228]

I think it would all come down to how KG and pop meshed!

[@ngkky]

If Celtics homer Bill Simmons had ranked KG above the great Doctor J on the All-time list, I would've thrown furniture against the wall.

[@Peekul1]

Jackie is really good. I wonder if you don't recognize that his attitude was also a problem that held him back? It's a great attitude but also can be chaotic nervous energy.

[@peat381low8]

I don't think KG can do what Duncan did in 2003. Beat the Kobe & Shaq Lakers in their prime before their fall the next year in 2004. Get a quadruple double in 2003 in the finals. I don't think KG is doing that. He was more of a face up post player. Duncan was back to the back and more stronger and KG.

[@Damianoutlaw]

Kevin Garnet had 1 playoff game scoring over 35 points David Robinson had 3 playoff games scoring over 35 points Anthony Davis has 6 playoff games scoring over 35 points Charles Barkley had 11 playoff games scoring over 35 points Tim Duncan had 11 playoff games scoring over 35 points Dirk had 15 playoff games scoring over 35 points Karl Malone had 18 playoff games scoring over 35 points Shaq had 32 playoff games scoring over 35 points Kobe had 39 playoff games scoring over 35 points

[@Damianoutlaw]

All of those players are Superior to Kevin Garnett. Kevin Garnett is the 2nd greatest Robin of all time behind Scottie Pippen, but he was never someone that you wanted to lead your franchise because he could not score when his team needed him to.

[@Dnero518]

My favorite player when I was little. My favorite team was always the Knicks and Sprewell was my favorite on my team but out of the whole NBA young Garnett was the one. Like a force of nature coming into the league. Weird that Timberwolves were the first teams jersey I ever had growing up a die hard Knicks fan. Also I used to love the Stockton Malone Jazz for whatever reason. I wanted them to beat Jordan and Chicago so bad in that finals when I was like 8 or 9.

[@TheDustin151]

What about his other rival in the west, Dirk? He didn't have a hall of fame coach or players around him. That's the biggest reason why I will always think Dirk is better.

[@ke3p1tco0l2]

Jason Terry, Steve Nash and Jason Kidd are all a sure-fire Hall of Famers and they played with Dirk at different points in his career. In his championship season, Dirk had Terry, Kidd, Shawn Marion and Tyson Chandler (people underestimate how talented that squad was, albeit still not as top-heavy as the team they upset in the Miami Heat). As far as coaching, Dirk had Don Nelson (HoF) and Rick Carlisle (good chance at HoF). All of that amounts to more than what KG was surrounded with in his whole time in Minnesota. As soon as he gets that in Boston, they’re contenders the during his time there. With all that said, I still agree with your overall point of KG being a better comparison to Dirk instead of Tim Duncan. Because of KG’s all-time defensive ability, I’d put him slightly ahead of Dirk. But I don’t blame anyone putting it the other way around because of Dirk’s all-time scoring ability. Both are two of my favorites to ever do it.

[@TheDustin151]

@@ke3p1tco0l2 Well Jason Terry was the only good player that Dirk played with in their prime. Kidd was in his late 30's and Nash didn't win an MVP till he was in Phoenix. I always like to challenge people to guess the starting lineup of the Mavs 2006 finals team without looking it up.

[@F33TUS]

@@TheDustin151 Steve Nash was a beast in Dallas, sure he didn't win an MVP their but he was making the All-Star team and the All-NBA team as well. Michael Finley didn't have a hall-of-fame career but he was a 2x All-Star that averaged 20 a game from 98-05 during the time that Nash was there. Dallas brought in the likes of Antawn Jamison, Antoine Walker, Juwan Howard, Jason Kidd, Caron Butler, Shawn Marion, & Tyson Chandler to make championship pushes. Nelson & Carlisle are HoF coaches and were better than Flip. I think Dirk had a lot more help in Dallas than KG did.

[@ke3p1tco0l2]

@@TheDustin151 Both Paul Pierce and Ray Allen were past their primes and into their 30s when KG and them teamed up, so that point really doesn't matter here. And I actually rooted heavily for that Mavs team that year, and followed that team. It used to annoy me when people discredited their lineup because I saw a potential contender. I'm not going to act like I predicted them upsetting the Heat, but they weren't roster full of scrubs. Either way, I actually think you have a valid point. It's just not as simple as Dirk "carrying a team" to a ring is all that I'm saying. There's a lot more factors than that.

[@Damianoutlaw]

@@ke3p1tco0l2 Jason Terry never made an all star team. One of my favorite players, but he will not be in the Hall of Fame.

[@stevus23]

Bill and Jackie is life

[@JasonBenesh]

KG and Allen Iverson had the same level of intensity (in games--let's not talk about practice), but KG was a team guy, and maybe too much of a team guy. Iverson was an Iverson guy, and since he also rarely had good players around him, that was the only reason we remember who AI was. If KG had been as dismissive of trying to get his teammates involved (and he definitely should have been most of the time) he'd have had bigger offensive numbers. As it is, he was a pretty good statistical match for Duncan, who never had to shoulder the whole load.

[@rapstallion6615]

Well said

[@superdopehiphop]

Malone shot 46.7% in the playoffs as a big. That’s BAD for as beastly as he was in reg season. Garnett is absolutely a Top15-20 player. He had horrid franchise first 12 years! His all around game on both ends of the floor speaks for itself.

[@hardwoodthought1213]

His offensive game in the post season was far from elite. Less 30 point playoff games than Blake Griffin and Dwight Howard and for that same awful TWolves franchise has 3 teammate who scored more points in a playoff game then he’ ever did

[@jjstraka1982]

Jackie is a treasure

[@Israel-nb7ip]

I love KG as much as anyone but he wasn't better than Duncan. You could throw the ball to Duncan to get a bucket at any point of the game including the clutch...you couldn't do that with KG. That said, I probably draft KG ahead of Duncan cuz he was such a vocal leader and outgoing face of a franchise. Duncan was perfect for San Antonio.

[@bmon85ify]

Take a drink every time that Bill references an old column he wrote and you'll be in the hospital

[@hipstereagle6050]

5:30 and don’t forget Eddie Van Halen. I like Jimmy Page’s album with David Coverdale more than anything Eddie did without David Lee Roth

[@tylerinnes3178]

Sam Cassel never gets hurt I still don't think they beat pistons

[@swpdisciple]

Wait, Sam Cassell was on the Celtics. The C’s beat the Pistons relatively easy. I don’t follow...

[@tylerinnes3178]

@@swpdisciple different team that was 2008 by then pistons did not have ben Wallace and were older. It was still a close series also. 2004 timberwolves were worse than 2004 pistons.

[@swpdisciple]

@@tylerinnes3178 oh you’re saying if the 2004 TWolves made the finals. Yeah Pistons win but that’s the point. Garnett had Cassell and Sprewell past their prime and that was his best Minnesota team. Even with both in their prime I don’t know that that’s a great team though they won 58 games that year. That has more to do with KG having one of the best MVP years ever. The 2008 Celtics were much better than the Pistons. That was a weird post season where the Celtics basically blew everyone out (except Cleveland) in every series multiple times but every series went 6 or 7 anyway. Even with Atlanta they prob won on average by close to 30 points yet there was a game 7.

[@homerthompson416]

Duncan took a starting lineup of Terry Porter, Antonio Daniels, Danny Ferry, and a quickly falling off David Robinson to the WCF. Don't see KG ever doing that. Not with 37 year old Porter, 34 year old Ferry, and 35 year old Robinson.

[@hardwoodthought1213]

Exactly, in reality the only playoff runs KG had of any note (04/08/10) he had two other players average 20 PPG. Duncan was able to carry average offences in the playoffs, KG simply wasn’t. Duncan’s help is so overrated

[@rollinstonemoula9689]

U forgot Sean Elliott.. D.Rob in 99 was still a Double Double😎✌

[@MSKUNES48]

KG had one season with two aging, guys who were barely even the quality of borderline All Stars while with the Wolves and they go from squeaking into the playoffs, to best record in the West. Switch Duncan and KG’s situation and we’re talking about KG as a top 10 All-Time player rather than top 30.

[@Damianoutlaw]

All Kevin Garnett debates are based on woulda/coulda/shoulda but never what Kevin Garnett actually did. KG never scored more than 40 points in a post season game. KG was the 3rd leading scorer for the Celtics in both the 2008 and 2010 Finals. Dirk and Tim Duncan never had the luxury of being the 3rd leading scorer on their respective teams and still being able to win in the playoffs.

[@rapstallion6615]

KG and Duncan's careers were heavily influenced by their respective landing spots. I totally agree that if KG and Duncan had swapped teams during their SA/MIN rivalry, this discussion would most certainly be about whether Duncan ever reached his full potential or not. Minnesota was and always has been one of the worst-run organizations in the league. That's a well-known fact. They pissed away KG's prime years and the same exact thing would have happened to Duncan if he had been in MN during that time.

[@Damianoutlaw]

@@rapstallion6615 your basketball knowledge seems rather limited. If Tim Duncan and KG swapped places Minnesota would be the franchise with 5 titles, and san Antonio would be where they were before Tim Duncan....a franchise with no titles. Outside of maybe shaq and Hakeem there was no one more dominant on the low block than Tim Duncan. Duncan's mastery of the low post game made his teammates better players. They got wide open jumpers, and lanes to the basket because of all the defensive attention that Duncan commanded. Tim Duncan also anchored great defensive teams almost every year....even until well past his prime. Kevin Garnett never anchored great defensive teams, and his offensive game did not command extra attention or a double team. Tim Duncan won a lot more than Kevin Garnett because he was a much better player.

[@rapstallion6615]

@@Damianoutlaw "If Tim Duncan and KG swapped places Minnesota would be the franchise with 5 titles, and san Antonio would be where they were before Tim Duncan....a franchise with no titles." So Gregg Popovich never wins a single NBA championship, nor does David Robinson, Flip Saunders (Rest In Peace, great one) goes down as a top 5 coach of all time and guys like Wally Szczerbiak and Rasho Nesterovic are just as good of a supporting cast as guys like David Robinson, Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker were? Duncan's that much better than KG?!?! Your argument requires no thought at all...of course all of those things would be true...Duncan just ended up in SA rather than MN, that's all. I can't shake my head hard enough. I wasn't even saying that Duncan wasn't a better player than KG, I was just saying that had they swapped career landing spots, then KG would likely have more than 1 ring, and Duncan would very likely have less than 5. What you're trying to argue is just ridiculous.

[@Damianoutlaw]

@@rapstallion6615 What you are arguing is ridiculous because its a hypothetical. IT NEVER HAPPENED. Kevin Garnett was never a dominant enough scorer to ever accomplish what Tim Duncan did. KG only had 9 playoff games where he ever scored over 30 points. The defensive attention you have to give Tim Duncan is what made his role players better. The Wide open 3's and open lanes to the basket are all there because of how dominant Duncan was on the low block. KG did not make his teammates better on the offensive or defensive side of the ball. Garnett played with plenty of talented players in Minnesota...many which were all Star and NBA Finals MVP caliber players. (Terrel Brandon, Tom Gugliotta, Chauncey Billups, Wally Szerbiack, Stephon Marbury, Latrell Sprewell, and Sam Cassel were all All Stars. Billups was the 2004 NBA Finals MVP....dont give me that crap that KG had no help in Minnesota) The Spurs were not a championship organization before they acquired Tim Duncan. Tim Duncan is why you think so highly of San Antonio, Popovich and those role players. Take away Duncan, and just give those same players David Robinson or Kevin Garnett and no one would even care about Pop, Ginobli or Tony Parker. Anybody that thinks that Kevin Garnett was good enough to do what Duncan did year after year in San Antonio is a moron that knows little about basketball.

[@dennisrossonero]

I'm so sick of media debating and critisizing players for "not reaching their full potential". A player's "ceiling" as they call it, besides being fully arbitrary, is not how you judge a player's career or impact. Stop living in fantasy-land. Comment on what you see and what you see only. Dreamers...

[@aquavolt4444]

If he played today, he would be the most sought after 5. Him playing 4 held him back

[@alloutking]

This guy was a stat BEAST.

[@4ktkaram395]

Garnett at 23 is just disrespectful. Easily top 15

[@davidbelanger9952]

If the wolves had kept Marbury by breaking the bank open Garnett's prime wouldn't have been wasted. They made the conference finals with literally only him. With Marbury there they would've pulled good role players too. Would it have been enough to win a ring? Maybe

[@T.H.E.O.R.Y.]

KG is what LeBron would be if he never left Cleveland. It kills me how he could've missed any personal glory he wanted to achieve because Minny couldn't get it right.

[@Anthonycheesman33]

Idk about that he was alot like Isiah Thomas he was in the middle of so many good players prime.

[@T.H.E.O.R.Y.]

@@Anthonycheesman33 no disrespect, but I don't see how you see it that way. IT managed to break thru with his team (something KG never did) in large part bc the nba powers that be weren't in their primes. There's no way Detroit wins back to back rings in the Celtics', Lakers', and/or Bulls' primes.

[@Anthonycheesman33]

@@T.H.E.O.R.Y. I dont see how you compare him to lebron whose top 3 all time that's just stupid lol .

[@T.H.E.O.R.Y.]

@@Anthonycheesman33 his ranking all time is at the heart of the matter. I said originally that KG is what Bron *would* be if he never left Cleveland (generally speaking), in the sense that he'd be a legendary team player with limited team success because Cleveland as a whole was subpar in terms of competing for championships. KG's Minny teams were the same if not worse.

[@Anthonycheesman33]

@@T.H.E.O.R.Y. lebron even in Cleveland would at least have 1 finals under his belt and a bunch of mvps .

[@jasonlevesque6340]

The Joe Smith debacle really hurt KG more than anyone else.

[@d.luvevo711]

In a good situation, he's giving you Duncan level success. His career and Tim's is just a perfect example of how much teams matter. Genuinely underrated all time.

[@ralx225b]

Completely agree I have been saying this for years it is good to know people are finding this out. At the end of the day basketball is a team sport, you CANNOT escape this. If Wilt Chamberlain couldn't win by himself...NOBODY CAN.

[@hardwoodthought1213]

Can I ask if he were on the Spurs which rings does he win? Because Duncan’s 03 team was far worse than KGs in 04, Duncan won the title KG lost in the 3rd round. KG wasn’t a great player till maybe 1999, so does he win in 1998? What about 2014? Because Duncan was still making All-NBA teams (was All-NBA first team in 215 at 36), and was the teams best defensive player, and at times took over on offence (scored 25 points in the first half of a finals game). In 2014 KG averaged like 8 points a game. So that’s 3 right there dispute KG would have won. Flip that, Duncan wins with the 04 Wolves, and without question wins more than one playing with Pierce, Allen and Rondo

[@ralx225b]

@@hardwoodthought1213 Kevin Garnett suffered several knee injuries that robbed him of his prime late in his career. But Duncan never had to deal with the offensive and defensive load year in and year out that KG did. kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5C5mGh4f8dmiaM&ab_channel=AndyHoops

[@enaidealukal4105]

he was at least as good as Tim Tim if not better, the Timberwolves are legitimately the worst pro sports team in the country and those teams were fucking terrible.. the one year the Wolves put even a halfway decent team around him- old ass Sam Cassell and Spree were good, but they weren't exactly a superteam (they weren't as good as Tony Parker + Manu) - they came one game from making the Finals, losing to one of those stacked Lakers teams.

[@hardwoodthought1213]

@@ralx225bDuncan had a career altering injury his 3rd year in basketball and didn’t have a working knee his last 8 years in the league, KGs injuries came when he was falling off. And KGs load on both ends meant nothing, he achieved nothing with that. Duncan was his teams best defender scorer and passer for his first 10 seasons and he won 4 titles

[@VxNJremix]

AD is also in the same boat as garnet, truly an amazing player and talent but can’t carry a team on his own like a lebron or giannis type players. He’s not a great floor raiser but he’s a ceiling raiser

[@rapstallion6615]

Giannis ain't carrying any teams to a 'ship like bron has...he fizzles out every year in the East...put some of those KG Wolves teams in the weak ass East and KG's playoff resume would very likely have at least as many playoff series wins as Giannis has had so far in his career. And Khris Middleton and Giannis's supporting casts have always been way better than Wally f'ing Szczerbiak and those shit Wolves teams KG played for

[@Ashish-xm9ol]

lol AD is a great floor raiser, look at the team he lost to in the playoffs, nobody beat them. He literally had half a year of a decent supporting cast then dragged Jrue and a bunch of bums to the playoffs. Nobody is Lebron except Lebron, idek if MJ gets 60 wins with the cavs teams Lebron got 60 wins with.

[@jonathansykes4986]

KG is much better than AD.

[@jrjr3645]

Kg to Duncan is like Dame to Curry.

[@AlexBrown-xp7mt]

In my mind garnett is second only to Duncan for PFs. He was just simply a far better player at his peak than Dirk, Karl and Chuck (though I love me some Dirk)

[@Riles3152]

That's fair. But go back and KZbin that 02 playoff series between the Wolves and Mavs. Dirk pretty much outplayed KG in every way possible. Of course Dirk's team was better than KG's.

[@THE_BEAR_JEW]

People just kinda forget the 2004 T Wolves barely made it past the Kings in the semis. They squeaked out Game 3 and Game 7. Then the Lakers were up 2-1 and leading in Game 4 before Cassel got injured. So at best the Wolves would’ve been down 3-1 even with a healthy Cassell. If by some miracle the Wolves won that WCF, they have to face the Pistons who were well-equipped to handle the Wolves. Especially with Ben Wallace being so much stronger and about the same size as KG. On top of that, the Pistons had already defeated the Pacers who were easily better than the Wolves that year too.

[@hiitsme3039]

KG......said he wish he would of left sooner when they asked him about lebron entering free agency. I was salty about KG not getting multiple rings he was one of my favorite players

[@Simouno]

Kevin Garnett was too intense for his own good. I think he would have thrived in an individual sport being so hard on himself and playing every game like it was his last, but in a team sport you don't always play with people that share the same desire to dominate and you end up being detrimental if you can't mesh with the group you are in. That's why the best version of KG was always against Kobe and LeBron whetre he could share a common enemy with his teammates and go to war with them for the city of Boston

[@LanceJ.]

Name a year in KG’s career that was negatively impacted by his intensity.

[@rollinstonemoula9689]

My Fav PF 😎✌

[@KillaKamBoi]

And yet we constantly forget he left his team to win before LeBron but we keep on insisting Bron stated the player leaving era

[@celtsfan5569]

he was traded...and he was in his 30s. Lebron bolted for the heat when he was 25 to join a prime wade and bosh

[@rastkosehovic3294]

Curry at 21 is borederline insane

[@Cotswolds1913]

2nd Best Power Forward Ever

[@jamesfarrier8985]

Who beats him? Timmy was more a C and I think slightly worse as well.

[@Cotswolds1913]

@@jamesfarrier8985 Tim Duncan ofc. KG’s weakness is he’s not as good as Timmy being a number 1 option in an offense. Eg you put KG on the 2003 Spurs, or the 2006 Mavericks, and it’s a worse team. But KG is enormously scalable next to talented perimeter players, who can put him in a complimentary or partnership role on offense. So for example if you had MJ, then KG is the better partner over Timmy, Or even if you have a CP3, a Lillard etc, then KG is incredibly compelling.

[@Suge8263]

Pause solo who has won a chip alone i done get it. Bill kg the best pf ever put some respect on that man name

[@hardwoodthought1213]

Not close to Duncan

[@ianrobinson4200]

Isn't KG still the top paid NBA player ever in terms of career salary? Always seemed a strange little fact to me, I guess he will be passed by LBJ if he plays till 40+ though

[@zuverzagmail]

Command a room? Not when he played Shaq. The dude was quiet as a church mouse. Which is why when he went to the Celtics I was surprised by his tough guy act. I never saw it when he played the Lakers. Thats because he wasn”bbq chicken”. 😂

[@eboooo]

KG had to bring the ball up pass then post up and score for his team against the Lakers in the playoffs in 2004

[@hardwoodthought1213]

Because Sam Cassel, who at 38 years of age in like 12 playoff games had more points twice than KG scored in any playoff game ever 😂

[@xSawatdee]

KG was to Minnesota as Fitzgerald is to Arizona.

[@Veyronp87]

yeah KG was never able to carry a team like Duncan or Dirk. thats a big mark on his resume but still an all time great.

[@tonymack2007]

Umm no he never had a team as good as either them until he went to Boston, which he won a ring his very 1st season and had he not got hurt they probably 3 peat.

[@Damianoutlaw]

Fans and defenders of Kevin Garnett all have one thing in common. They all want to act like scoring is not that important, or that KG's lack of scoring ability did not contribute to his post season futility in Minnesota. Its not a coincidence that Kevin Garnett scored the least amount of points in the playoffs (compared to his peers), and also lost the most in the post season.

[@jeffjcallbomber]

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[@jeffjcallbomber]

7667766778776676767769666878686866788778886588886887878788777796977766888676667888668767876766878878876866888796678767686766678777676887677876868786768778668868678766667667868867787888696866896868877667877678787567876986766868778677777878766777678777678777877768676766866678678767877776766686767878777766676688769765666786778778886787787776877876776778668868867889787786866786768866766777886667676766776668688776866788677886677687768786777767777877666668666667766877676886768766776688678777886676667776676686768877667777877767666787676866667877776776788776877687877677678676778787678687788887778876687777867776

[@Geeandrezzi]

@@Damianoutlaw this is 1 of the most casual takes on KG’s career that I have ever seen in my life. Lmao wtf 😳

[@Damianoutlaw]

Dirk beat all the teams/superstars in the Western Conference that Kevin Garnett couldn't, and went to the Finals twice with Jason Terry as his second best player. Dirk in 2011, Duncan in 2003 and Hakeem in 1994 are the only NBA title teams of the past 40 years to be won by a single superstar player without another superstar player. Dirk and Tim Duncan were vastly superior to Kevin Garnett.

[@brianpaul8734]

Kawhi in 2019, Curry in 2015, Isaiah Thomas in 89 and the list goes on. Dirk had a great supporting cast with all defensive players and 6 man of the year candidate. Dirk is amazing no doubt but he isn't far superior to KG that's disrespectful He is a better scorer but worse at every other facet of the game and maybe slightly better all time because his career wasnt wasted on a team that got its draft picks taken and that hasn't made the playoffs besides one year with butler since he left and hasn't won a playoff series since KG was there.

[@Damianoutlaw]

@@brianpaul8734 Joe Dumars, and Dennis Rodman are in the Hall of Fame. Klay Thompson will eventually join them in the HOF. Kyle Lowry is a 6x All Star including 2019. All of those players are superior to Jason Terry. JET never made an All Star team. His biggest honor was 6th man of the year. Name me all the other NBA title teams that won with 1 All Star player since you said the "list goes on"? Kevin Garnett was not remotely good enough to ever win a title as the lone star on his team. He typically could not get his teams out of the first round.

[@brianpaul8734]

@@Damianoutlaw When you said superstar I thought meant MVP caliber player like Kyle Lowry is great and does all the little things for winning but he is damn sure not a superstar. Yeah most championship teams have more than 1 all star. Dirk still had a good team with a great coach and Chandler was a dpoy level player.

[@brianpaul8734]

@@Damianoutlaw That's because Garnett's team were way way worse than Dirks team's. In 2001 the year before Dirk had made an all star team that mavericks team won 53 games. The Timberwolves are one of the worst franchises in the league and surrounded him with terrible teams throughout his prime.

[@Damianoutlaw]

@@brianpaul8734 The 2011 Mavs were 2-7 without Dirk in the lineup. With Dirk they were best team in the NBA. Im still waiting on all these other title teams that won it all with one all star since you said "and the list goes on."

[@superdopehiphop]

“Limited 2003 Spurs how TF were they limited?!?” 😅

[@RLSmith-jt8qj]

offensively duncan carried them. but they are some of the best defensive teams ever

[@rickybrain3331]

Finally a bill simmons video without mentioning jason tatum.

[@kdwalker5501]

Totally agree on people looking at Malones stats in 30 years

[@swpdisciple]

Karl Malone is a confounding player because not only did he compile stats for 19 years but his peak years in terms of win shares, VORP and real box +/- are like 6 Larry Bird MVP years in a row. He’s a legitimately great player. People just don’t like him because of his off the court stuff. He also won 2 MVP’s late career which is hard to do.

[@slightexag]

Kawhi at 25 seems crazy now.

[@joespitzer977]

Who was best teammate prime KG had ? I bet he doesn't even compare to Tony or Manu.

[@hardwoodthought1213]

Sam Cassell made All-NBA 2nd team in 2004, and had TWO 40 point playoff games (KG never scored 35+). Flip that, in 99/03/05/07, which of Duncan’s teammates made an All-NBA team when he won titles? I’ll save you needing to look, none 😂

[@lamart3857]

Dont forget kg invented the dead ball goaltend and he was throwing powder in the air b4 lebron

[@johnlindsay7301]

True greatness is measured in the culture developed with the goal of winning. It’s what separates Jordan from Lebron. It’s shy we got the very best version of Pippen, the best version of Rodman and BJ and Kerr and Horace Grant. They all were at their best with MJ. Yes Jackson gets some credit for developing that culture. But Mj made sure they lived it. The thing with Duncan is he had the culture, but that was Pop’s culture So I’d say yes KD could have done if not as well, then at least come close.

[@hardwoodthought1213]

What evidence is it that it was ‘Pops’ culture? Because I’ve heard many players say Duncan was the culture. Before Duncan, SA we’re leaving Texas, Pop was on the verge of being fired and they had achieved nothing After Duncan, Parker gets traded away, LMA threatens to retire, the Kawhi disaster and SA again achieved nothing During Duncan’s tenure nothing bad came out of SA. Sure Duncan has to buy into Pop and be coachable, but Duncan has just as much claim to creating the culture in SA as Pop does. Either way, if not on an ultra alpha type team like Boston where KG could create a culture of brotherhood he isn’t doing what Duncan did. Many players have attested that KG was too harsh, and every player who played with both Tim and KG has stated Duncan was the better leader.

[@MrDay-jw9bv]

I agree with her Garnett was the truth

[@philipcallado5693]

Marbury screwed him. They would’ve been like a new age Malone and Stockton and been playoff contenders for years. But delusional Marbury always felt like he was a #1 guy. Marbury was the Westbrook of his era.

[@milespaw]

Hey Bill, should small market teams exist?

[@jerrylewis788]

I low-key get offended when people say Dirk is better than Prime KG

[@hardwoodthought1213]

Dirk did torch KG head to head in the playoffs and won a tougher ring, but I still take KG

[@PhilBurr100]

Elvin Hayes won a ring, what is Bill Simmons talking about?

[@JonCom3dy]

I wish KG left MIN earlier 😢 and he deserved the finals mvp. Pierce won because of the narrative.

[@michaelstahl2967]

Name one single teammate that was worth a crap. Wally? Past their primes Spree and Sam? Look what he did for the Celtics. Now imagine that for his whole career. Equal to Duncan, not better but equal.

[@RetroKid]

I'd still have Pip over KG due to more intangibles and being able to do more using more of the court, on both sides of the ball.

[@raygaub9861]

Kobe and KG in 2k was nasty as you think