Did Old Heads DESERVE "We Done with the 90s"?: A Discussion

A conversation between Jonny and his editor (Russell) on the "we done with the 90s" trend.
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The game of Basketball has been my passion since I was 5 years old. I grew up as a kid watching my dad's recorded VHS tapes of playoff games through the 70s and 80s, and collected all the Basketball cards. Something about the game and what it represents just hooked me from a very young age.
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I post videos every week on NBA history, predictions, hypothetical scenarios and current NBA topics.
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[@jonnyarnett]

TIMESTAMPS BELOW: In case you’d like to see my initial response to the trend first, here it is kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y4m3lWtnqrl7eck . After that response, I hadn’t quite got all my thoughts out there, so me and Russell decided to chat about it. Did the old school fans earn the backlash?? Welcome to the video! 0:17 Explanation for this video 1:11 The attitude of the younger AND older fans: Do the older fans DESERVE the backlash? 2:28 Does Adam Silver get TOO MUCH of a pass? 3:10 Was there ever a PERFECT era in the NBA? 12:49 Are older fans TOO entitled? Why was the 90s “perfect”? 26:32 Jonny has bias for every era… 35:08 What is your favorite playoff series ever? 38:49 Why doesn’t the league experiment more? 42:59 Can a 5, 3 player SUCCEED in the modern game? 48:36 Hater culture and the toxicity of modern discourse 53:32 Jonny’s LeBron video that he’s too scared to make… 01:00:26 Who would struggle and who would thrive in different eras? 01:08:22 Why Steph Curry WOULD STRUGGLE in the 80s 01:29:59 How will the league reduce offense? 01:41:10 Russell’s closing thoughts on we done with the 90s 01:44:01 Jonny’s closing thoughts on we done with the 90s 01:49:01

[@fortynights1513]

Here’s the way I look at it: Players today are more skilled than their predecessors, but they also grew up watching and emulating different players than their predecessors. If the players were inserted into and grew up in different eras, then they might’ve developed totally different tendencies and skills due to who they grew up watching, who would’ve coached them, and the fact that the rules they were under would’ve been a certain amount different too (in particular traveling I’ve heard is called differently). As long as everything is understood to have occurred in the context that it did, then I say we’re good.

[@shaft9000]

One thing about 3s that seemingly nobody ever mentions, and it accounts for at least a 1-2% increase in 3FG% in players today: >>> HOLDING BACK THE *heave* AT THE QUARTER -ENDING BUZZER.

[@strgametakes3699]

Jonny is literally made for debate because he always listens but stays strong in his stance....keep up the good work man

[@ImportAl]

Attacking eachother with hypotheticals is dumb. Kyrie and AI couldn't cook with same moves because of traveling, Bird grew up without the 3, Jordan dominated what was in front of him.

[@handsomeX]

Thank you! 💯🎯

[@gavincampbell7488]

And if Jordan had them orders NBA lined up in front of him - he would dismantle them too. That’s where people get lost.

[@user-cn8nu6lq4w]

Really well said.

[@creditorclass6513]

Dude I got called for that in high school in the 80's 😅. When I did it at the park big dudes would stop the game and let me know if I got to the cup with that handle again i was getting put on my ass and they meant it😅. I was born 20 years too early

[@1vaultdweller]

Illegal defense rule was behind him. He never had to deal with complex defensive schemes like Giannis wall as the illegal defense rule benefited iso players

[@cadecrusader3940]

Thanks guys for this real breakdown of this important basketball topic! Love how you guys addressed some of the issues with real talk!

[@nohbuddy1]

This whole thing is due to 20 years of ESPN debate shows like First Take that only talk about rings, and things you can't quantify like "clutchness" or didn't play "hard enough" or whatever. It removes any discussion of actual strategy of the game. See Mark Cuban completely own Skip Bayless in 2012 after the Finals talking about why the Mavericks beat the Heat and LeBron the previous year. Skip had no answer for actual basketball strategy because he has no knowledge of the actual game. kzbin.info/www/bejne/roPEgGSjg5p4e68 You also had probably the greatest player in basketball history finish their career right before the explosion of the internet. Jordan was legitimately the biggest star in US sports and one of the biggest on the planet. He was everywhere, Nike, McDonalds, god damn Space Jam. Everyone had a #23 jersey even if you didn't watch the sport. I even had one and I was like 8 when he retired the 2nd time. You then have LeBron come into the league right after Jordan's Wizard tenure, and a whole new generation watching him who didn't experience or see Jordan play or covered. You don't see ignorant discourse like this in baseball or hockey. You get it mostly with QBs in the NFL due to the same dumb ESPN shows. No fan in their right mind would disrespect Willie Mays, Ted Williams, Greg Maddux, etc.

[@MikeBNumba6]

The issue started with the NBA and ESPN not knowing how to promote the league afterJordan. Here came Lebron James who was projected to be the next savior of the NBA. ESPN started calling Lebron a top 5 player of all time before he won a ring. That was the problem and always been the problem. ESPN started forcing Lebron telling everyone how great he was without winning anything. When he won his first ring he moved up right behind Jordan. That is what created this toxic environment we have today. ESPN no longer talks about the game, but stories, narrative and drama. Most NBA fans today don't even watch the games hence the reason they are so obsessed with stats or repeat whatever ESPN talking head like Stephen A Smith tells them.

[@nohbuddy1]

@@MikeBNumba6 Yep. Plus people being only fans of particular players, not teams. It's really baffling to just be a LeBron fan only

[@Dotsetc]

@@yeelahowah7476It's natural to watch certain players but he a fan of every team that player plays for just because of the player? That's some Taylor Swift bs.

[@Dotsetc]

@@yeelahowah7476 'Y'all really have an allegiance riding the sack of a single multimillionaire grown men that don't care about you.' See how what you said made no sense? Supporting a team in a TEAMSPORT makes way more sense than following a star player 'acting' like a fan of his teams along the way. Everyone has players they follow because they think they dope and it's okay to be a casual. Its simply a weird flex to also temporarily act like a fan of a squad, like for who y'all acting lol. I also never said the swiftie thing to roast you since it wasnt even targeted at you, but you did take it personal, so I guess it was.

[@midnightlumina7]

​@@Dotsetc fuck off, if you want a 1on1 sport, watch fucking wrestling.

[@creditorclass6513]

Don't worry Wemby will being both fanbases together. I'm an old head who ordered the NBA ticket for the first time since the Jordan comeback😅. His skill set is definitely fun to watch and Modern. The kids will get to see what a defensive force looks like in Wemby. Wemby also has an old school attitude about wanting to win NOW.

[@jonnyarnett]

Dude, I looooove the way Wemby talks about the game and himself. Seems confident and wise beyond his years. Praying he stays healthy, because if he doesn't, he'll become the greatest what if of all time.

[@JC23783]

For me Wemby is the spitting image of what a young Kareem would look like if he grew up in this era.

[@creditorclass6513]

@JC23783 So true!!. Kareem was lanky and durable so I hope this kid is. I think he loves 5 man basketball and already has flair as a passer. I think younger fans need to look at past legends as specimens and ask themselves " can I work with this?" and project todays skillset like you just did with Wemby and Kareem. Would they take a 7 footer with sub 4.6 speed, stronger than Shaq with a wing span longer than Gobert and a 45-48 vert?. The answer is yes and he retired when I was in kindergarten and I'm in my 50's. Pre ring MJ was not a monster Kobe could have impersonated because he was a 50 inch vertical and 4.3 40 who blocked shots like a center, I think these kids can work with that. Kobe is actually a facsimile of post athleticism MJ, crazy but true.

[@CWhyNot75]

@@JC23783That's a good comparison and I would love to see Wemby develop a skyhook. That would be a cheat code for a player like him.

[@Zett76]

Scratch the "NOW". Guys like this "king" don't even really want to win. They just collect their numbers, and don't care what happens to the team.

[@mobrown1198]

• Even with the DVR recordings, and the way the league measures views~ it still doesn’t equate to the finals in the 90’s. • I am a self prescribed old head. Been watching since the mid 70’s. The mid 90’s to the mid 2000’s were brutal to watch. I’m not just an NBA fan, I’m a basketball fan. I watch and follow players careers…. part of what bothers many OG’s is not just nostalgia about the game, the defense, but the players. The mentality of the players has changed. The processes have changed along the way. Fans, older fans display much of their venom towards Lebron. They hold him accountable for the changes in the game they dislike. Much of it is the mentality of the players. • it’s interesting because the argument is surrounding the game. But it’s more than that. It’s about the “modern” player. • The competitive aspect, the rivalry aspect. That mentality is gone. The league can tinker with the game all it wants. Increasing the distance on the 3 pt line isn’t the issue. Taking the first decade of the 3pt in the NBA out of the equation for fairness. The overall league average in 3pt shooting isn’t that great. It’s less than 2% differential in the accuracy of 3pt FG’s in the past 40 seasons. • Older fans miss the difference in the player’s mentality, the lack of team play. It’s not about the over the top physicality (Heat, Knicks, Pistons). Fans miss what the positions actually meant. The defined roles ~ interesting because you guys are trying to put Mugsy into context. Just stop, losing credibility. Yall need an OG to lend context. Another thing about the modern game, no fundamentals, no positions, less strategy, more skills and shot making, lone off of illegal screens, uncontested dunks and layups. But the skill has improved. • the game will not be the same as it was. But that’s the beauty of the game. It wasn’t the same in 70’s as 60’s, not the same in 95’ as it was in 85’ stylistically… it wasn’t the same. Competitively yes. Stylistically no. Fundamentally- absolutely not. • the modern game of basketball has changed. I’m not yearning for a repeat of the 80’s -2010’s I like some of the “advancements” in the game. I dislike the focus on the skills and lack of team play. I can appreciate both. It is, for me, the whole process, from youth, through AAU, college, the after HS process, it’s all broken and it has been broken. The players who are stars today, the most talented, are products of that system. When one of my favorite young players (Anthony Edwards) has such a non chalant attitude towards the All-Star game, it speaks volumes. Many of the younger fans don’t see any issue with it. Therein lies the disconnect. It’s acceptable for them. It’s acceptable for players to load manage, and ridiculous for the league to enforce policy. The OG fans are still salty Lebron and all his talents took his talents to South Beach…. Ushered in a new era. More of this will follow. Because the next generation is going to produce more of the same type of player. I don’t hate the modern game, and wish the game to return to the 90’s. I don’t dislike the players. I do have a great deal of disdain for the overall culture of the game. I have a disdain for the idol worship of Lebron. A huge disdain for lowering the standard. Instead of building upon each previous generation. The current one decides to tear down the merits of the previous generations. Instead of building upon the legacy of those that paved the way. The disrespect by the players themselves have led an entire generation of fans to disrespect the history of the game. They love the fruit but hate the tree.

[@r6singh]

Very well articulated

[@Corb13]

that’s a whole ass ESSAY (not hating just wow)

[@onlyfacts3178]

i start watching basketball in 86... To me the best ERAs were; 1-90s 2-00s 3-80s 4-20s 5-10s You didnt mention something that i think was also important...every team had his star and they COMPETED with what they had..STARS were related to teams.. YOU think of one team and you immediatly think about that STAR. NOW a STAR can have 3 different teams in 3 years. And MEDIA will criticize the player that is loyal and stick to his team when he is losing more than someone who is winning because he keeps changing teams to join other stars...

[@onlyfacts3178]

As a EUROPEAN i can easilly say that NBA is 10 years behind FIBA.. IN the 90s i was the biggest critic in FIBA teams because all we do was shooting 3s...we had teams with 20 attempts from 3 point line at half time... And we were amazed about the NBA stars with their FUNDAMENTALS and athleticism...but it wasnt just that it was the fact that the REAL stars would carry teams on their shoulders while some players sacrifice their stats to be ROLE WORKING HARD players. That was more impressive to watch than 4 guys shooting 3s...

[@danielgloyd4529]

​@@onlyfacts3178there's a reason Team USA gets destroyed in international play. By all rights the talent level on team USA dwarfs the competition. We lack the old fundamentals and knowing how to run a play on offense.

[@user-cn8nu6lq4w]

"We done with the 90s... Cuz Mad😡" about sums it all up, lol.

[@rayrichard4665]

Personally I don’t think we need low scoring like the 90’s but just let them play more aggressive defense, let these guys compete to their full potential and I guarantee the NBA will dominate all entertainment like it was in the 90’s

[@owensmith2137]

To me 105 to 108 would be an ideal scoring average as long as there is intensity and heart on display.

[@legendarywiimaster]

⁠@@owensmith2137they went as high as 110 in the 80s so to me that sounds good

[@RPGabe]

I loved the defensive dominance and team focus of the Pistons and Spurs in the early 2000's, but I remember viewership dropping a bit during that time. Late 2000's early 2010's is probably the sweet spot.

[@xiamfinal571]

Jonny sounds so different in this

[@Jonathan-A.C.]

He puts on a voice for the videos

[@crater044]

​@@Jonathan-A.C. Not necessarily. It's his reading voice that he uses in his videos. He did a podcast where this was brought and he actually read something on air to show the difference in his normal speaking voice and his reading voice that we hear in videos.

[@Jonathan-A.C.]

@@crater044 Yeah that’s what he mean. He has a different speaking voice between the two

[@chadsstillalive]

Yes, his real speaking voice is much more pleasant than his video voice. I get it and I still enjoy his videos, but they’d be even more enjoyable if he delivered them conversationally. Just my two cents.

[@samuelkoshy8520]

I could’ve swore he was in his 20’s when I first heard his voice

[@Dr.J42]

I definitely think this whole argument always stems from a emotional standpoint. Regardless if there is logic applied it always comes from a source of sentimentality. Older and newer fans don’t want to see their legends and heroes being put down. And honestly it’s all almost disingenuous arguments. No Lebron isn’t “soft”, Yes Jordan had a left, Yes Steph could “survive” the nineties, Yes Bird would still f*ck up a team on any given night. And in my personal opinion Greatness =/= skill or talent anyways. Because when it comes to raw basketball skill and talent imo it’s either KD or Wilt. And neither of them are the GOAT. So even if Jordan or Stockton “didn’t have a left” tf does that matter anyways.

[@codyeble6764]

Well put

[@onlyfacts3178]

Not really..i have watch 5 decades of basketball..MY ERA is 80s / 90s /00s /10s /20s... But kids keep thinking my ERA was the 90s just because i said 90s were the best...

[@samjacob1310]

I agree with the overall assessment that Adam Silver and his team should be the main culprit. When it comes to a point where the overall feels unfair, where the rules and procedures outright favors offense then something is wrong. The 90’s and 2000’s in terms of balance in offense and defense felt right. Thank you for the pod guys! 👍

[@southwest1988]

How can players be more skilled today if carrying and traveling is allowed ? Post game the fundamentals of rebounding is lost, and defense is lost the 5 man team emphasis is lost position less ball is pointless basketball

[@leechrec]

And how can they be more skilled when they always need to use screens to get their shots off? XD

[@blackout995]

This comment does not make any sense. The less rules there are, the _more_ skill expression there is, not less. It's why Kyrie has the most insane handles ever. Could AI do these moves? Probably. But the rules didn't allow it. So he developed a more restricted (and therefore limited, I.e. not as good) handle. If he played today, AI would be even better because he could express his skill more readily. Also, players today are, without question, more skilled. It's not even remotely close. The average NBA player today is exceptionally technically skilled, and the worst NBA players today are 100x better than the worst in the 90s. Every player has a deep bag, can shoot the lights out, and is good at an Xs and Os level. I. This is simply not true for previous eras - teams used to have guys that had zero offensive game as starters! Yes defensive rule changes were part of that, but skills becoming widespread are what contributed to spacing and the offensive revolution we see today.

[@southwest1988]

@@blackout995 explain defensive skill ? 🤣

[@southwest1988]

@@blackout995 then if players are more skilled why then change rules to make it easier??? If players are more skilled shouldn’t be changed to make it harder to score ? Like they did to Wilt Chamberlain!

[@blackout995]

@southwest1988 do you believe defense is innately unskilled?

[@GMoneyXL1969]

I won't go down that rabbit hole about who started the banter, newjacks or OG's, back and forth about which era is greater. What's upsetting is that modern mainstream media are giving free reign to say something so ludicrously false without being checked. Certain fans will run with that narrative, debate about it like gospel, then throw out derogatory names because you debunked their claims. It's ok to "agree to disagree," but when the foremention happens, the fanbase becomes toxic. Some of us have lost our way of having a civil conversation. Good thing we have channels such as yours to have this opportunity, along with making great content.

[@josuerojas4157]

Removing that corner three in the season tournament is definitely interesting

[@kauffamn1016]

During the Jordan era , nba was competing with nfl views . NBA was at its peak in the 90s .

[@Himmyjewett]

In the finals sure but overall hell no, and also 90s NFL sucked ass

[@southwest1988]

We done with Lebalco and the play in tourney the all star game we done with the 2020s nba is officially dead

[@ericwright2594]

💯

[@tsbworld]

Lebalco?

[@vicepresidentmikepence889]

In the early 80's, 16 of 23 teams made the playoffs. The 1985 86 bulls made the playoffs with a 30-52 record, and you guys call the play in tournament trash 😂😂😂😂😂

[@southwest1988]

@@vicepresidentmikepence889 who created the play in in favor for who ? Mr politics you should know already wake up

[@inaki6404]

I know you are exclusively talking about 80s and 90s players but man, Jerry West would be insane on today’s NBA. A tall, big, long guard that is ELITE on shooting, rebounding, passing and defending and is (maybe) the clutchest player on NBA history? Just crazy. Also, Bill Russell. Like Draymond Green on steroids.

[@chadcas]

What Jonny said at 26:00 is the beginning and end of the conversation, what’s important to winning in each era is too different for comparisons to really take place at all.

[@xiamfinal571]

I think jxmohighroller made the best video on this whole topic

[@jonnyarnett]

It was fantastic. His points about dribbling and traveling rule changes are something I've always wanted to articulate and present, but just hadn't yet. He did it so well, I kinda feel like I don't have to now. lol

[@SolarzFFA]

@@jonnyarnettI think you still should hit on the topic, you guys might share some audience, but I’m sure there are people subbed to you and not him or maybe they never heard of him

[@GibranCamus-kr2dc]

"We done with the 90s" is literally an oldhead mentality. Old head isn't about age-it's about a stubborn attachment to one's own era. As an old man, I find it hilarious that young folks and middle-aged folks act unwittingly like oldheads.

[@Bigedub101]

Nailed it cause I guess I'm more old head yet that's more how people are in general used to nostalgia

[@mr.longjohn0014]

I promise you nobody besides that one persons tiktok and children/other trolls do not believe or care for the whole “we done with the 90’s” trend. someone just wanted to go viral and they clearly succeeded.

[@fortynights1513]

Here’s the way I look at it: Players today are more skilled than their predecessors, but they also grew up watching and emulating different players than their predecessors. If the players were inserted into and grew up in different eras, then they might’ve developed totally different tendencies and skills due to who they grew up watching, who would’ve coached them, and the fact that the rules they were under would’ve been a certain amount different too (in particular traveling I’ve heard is called differently). As long as everything is understood to have occurred in the context that it did, then I say we’re good.

[@JC23783]

Different skills doesn't equal more skilled. Theres things that today's players are better at but there's also things they're not as good at.

[@user-cn8nu6lq4w]

@@JC23783 There are also a lot of things they straight up don't have to worry about.. large portions of the old toolset that they can ignore in order to focus on things like shooting/spacing, etc.

[@Des420]

They’re not more skilled. They’re more specialized. They mostly play very one dimensional basketball and no defense. Hard to be more skilled when you have less skills. 😂

[@user-cn8nu6lq4w]

@@Des420 Exactly.

[@MikeBNumba6]

Its like saying people who were in the military were bad soldiers. Like the Spartans or those who fought in the civil war are bad soldiers compared to the armies today. When in reality the armies today just got way more advanced technology and weapons. You just cant compare.

[@MatheusTurossi]

About Russell's point about having specialist we have a lot of specialist on the game. Steve Kerr (3 point Specialist) - We have Bogdanovic, JJ Reddick, Luke Kennard, Sam Hauser and etc. Dennis Rodmann (Defense Specialist) - Gary Payton II, Rudy Gobert, Matisse Thybulle, Clint Capela, Patrick Beverly (he is literally Rodmann Guard Edition) and etc. And a lot of players when they come to the NBA they have to become a specialist at first to being noted and after that they start to develop the rest of their game (some of them don't).

[@MrGyonex]

As long as the rules are upheld, I have no problem with the game. The 90s had that. The 2000s had that. Then It gradually degraded until what we have today. Even the league changed rules to try and make it less obvious.

[@anthonyhernandez2111]

Imagine being 30 and being considered an "oldhead" 😂. this ish is just ridiculous man..fed up with this toxic nba community of fans. I was a diehard and avid NBA fan from 97-2017ish. watched every single big game growing up and all Laker games. the intensity of the defense is MILES ahead of how NBA is today. idc if people can "jump higher and fancier dribbling skills". NBA is about offense AND defense. defense account for 50% of the game. That HAS to account for something

[@17thNO]

Jonny is the man. I love this channel. Thanks to Russell for his fiya editing. Ya'll are great bruh!. "I done with" load managenent, player (over) empowerment, players swapping teams everytime time they underachieve, most players lack of defense, "superstars" missing seasons, players quitting on teams, travelling and pushing off being mistaken for "having a bag", calling players that are not "superstars" being called "bums", not caring about the regular season and it not mattering, "GOAT Talk". "I DONE WITH" all of that shit.

[@17thNO]

"I ALSO DONE WITH" cult worship of specific players. It's okay to be a fan of a player but this cult worship is way too much. Them people don't know, care about or love you. "I DONE WITH IT"

[@user-jw5qj8kv2y]

What made the 90's the golden age of basketball was the tough rugged defense that was allowed in the game just like a hockey team. Actual rivals and players who actually wanted to compete. In today's game players have to much privilege to do whatever they want but that will soon be their downfall as the years go on.

[@a-a-rondavis9438]

"rugged defense" lol. When the guards either can't dribble, shoot, or neither, and no zones meant no true defensive schemes, just 1v1, that makes defenses clog the paint and make it much harder for players to drive and score because they aren't a threat from behind the arc, doesn't create "good defense", it creates the only type of defense, along with just fouling for the sake of it.

[@zxcvb3772]

@@a-a-rondavis9438"no zones" Newsflash, most teams today play man to man defense like the 90's. Source: JJ Redick's podcast with Tim Legler. Sometimes I feel like NBA fans are just talking without knowing what they're talking about.

[@AdamKlownzinger]

The people basically saying “Bro if you put ME in the 90s I could be as good as anybody” … its like saying “If I went back in time I could amaze all of the stupid primordial scientists of 100 or 200 years ago with my great knowledge.” 1) unless you’re actually brilliant or really athletic, anything you know about science or shooting/dribbling/etc is only a very cheap imitation of things that people way more gifted than you came up with 2) you dont understand these subjects enough to actually innovate beyond them, the way a great basketball player would know how to do with dribbling or shooting, and the way a brilliant scientist would be able to make great discoveries 3) everything that you and everybody else knows in modern times only exists because of great players and scientists of the modern era, and they only are able to build off of the discoveries and lessons learned by great players and scientists of the past. Its obvious to anybody who isnt incredibly stupid (“ad hominem” yes I know, just because its an attack doesnt mean its wrong) that the greatest players of the 90s would be just as good as players today, if they were allowed to get away with the same shit modern players are able to (like straight up travelling and double dribbling all the time), were allowed to rest all the damn time, got a whistle any time there was contact, were able to train the way athletes today train, etc. because the greatest people in any field are working on grounds laid by the great people before them, and have the goods to expand upon that work

[@Greg-gp6vz]

I do feel like oldheads kind of brought this on themselves. They go on and on about “leflop” “le3-6-1” and other stuff but as soon as someone calls Jordan the left hand bandit, they get up in arms. I think both extremes are stupid as hell, you can appreciate eras without dragging others down, and I don’t have a dog in this because the 2000’s are what I grew up with and my favorite era, I think it includes the physicality of the 90’s and the sick moves from the later decades. “We’re done with the 90’s” is stupid, but oldheads were asking for it at this point, people need to learn to appreciate what we have. People in either camp just show they don’t really care about basketball as a whole, just protecting their biases. Oldheads for denying what the game became after evolution and youngsters for denying the history of past greats

[@romanramirez7847]

This was exactly what I was thinking. Even in this comment section do I see why this whole thing started to begin with. You have people in this comment section complaining about travels, no defense and flops not realizing that they’re the reason “We done with the 90’s” is a thing. The NBA as a whole just has a very toxic fanbase, but I feel like oldheads go too far in their disdain of the modern game more then younger fans. It’s impossible to watch old games online without the comments full of people whining about today’s game. I just want to enjoy all eras without this toxicity.

[@BBallGOAT]

Exactly 💯. All eras and legends deserve their respect. Don't know why people struggle to appreciate all legends, no matter who is over who

[@daemon55]

We old heads still don't appreciate what we have today because there are flaws in it. As Jonny mentioned in the video, we old heads bring up the weaknesses of the current NBA as a means to complain on the quality of the product. Because we SIMPLY DON'T ENJOY IT. From the flopping, to the no defense, to the no calls on the offensive fouls and travelling.

[@BBallGOAT]

@@daemon55 There are flaws in every era. There are always positives and negatives

[@daemon55]

@@BBallGOAT agree...but there are too much negatives for the current era that even the positives doesn't even outweigh. If you are enjoying it, then good for you.

[@kingdeedee]

Interestingly enough, to you guys’ point about Adam Silver making changes after this years’ all star game, he sent out a memo to the officials to crack down extra hard on foul baiting and scoring is down league wide since the all star game

[@onlyfacts3178]

not going to happen..NBA a couple of years ago tried that ...and THE Ft MERCHANT players all saw their POINTS drop..NBA lost money and went back to it...

[@econarticles]

The def 3 sec rule needs to go. Modern spacing allows for better opportunities. Sport needs integrity, not artificial rules.

[@owensmith2137]

And yeah go live!

[@sirbradfordofhousejones]

1:27:30 to that point, on Open Court (I think), Isiah Thomas said that Magic Johnson would completely revolutionize the 5 position in todays NBA. I absolutely agree. He’d be like a flashier more mobile version of Jokic.

[@Gian4455]

For me, a person that started watching basketball in 1987 (at 7 years old), that loves 80s and 90s basketball, I would say that for me, to be more interested in current NBA, I would like to see a more defensive mindset. And I think that what has affected that is the fact that the current rulebook makes players scared of getting flagrants, so that part falls squarely on the league. I also believe that players are so worried about their brand, that they in many cases prefer to not defend than to risk being put on a poster, and that is something that cannot be blamed on Silver.

[@jmarcguy]

It’s social media. I had no idea what other generations thought about anything growing up. Every so often I’d hear a conversation about “this player is better than this player” but that was it. It wasn’t a daily discussion. All I knew was what me & my friends thought. There were previous generations? I had no clue. I have no problem saying players are better in a lot of areas today. I just think the style played is boring. The average player today shoots like Reggie Miller.

[@phillytallguy3894]

@44:30 💯 Push it back! This will cause a better shot variety 🏀 and force teams to have different styles.

[@gotwobag7876]

Good Monday morning!!👋👋👋

[@MarkSinister]

Get the "Angry Old Hoops Fan" on your podcast!

[@rapperbucks3203]

Jonnnnnnnnyyyyy

[@owensmith2137]

And..Kobe in 2003 had 5 blocks in the all-star game on a team with Kevin Garnett, Yao Ming, and Tim Duncan! That's why he has a record four ASGMVPS! His intensity and heart! If we see sweeping changes this off-season it will be 20 years since the league took the hand checking away. We have been seeing alot of parallels in history these past four seasons. And of course Draymond wants the hard fouls-uhhhhh, phisicallity back!

[@culture-nature-mobility7867]

Loving offense/scoring is not necessarily the same as high pace or high scores... You could appreciate a slow and/or grinding offensive approach as well... As an example: I liked Formula 1 when there was much less overtaking... I liked the strategic approach, the suspense of not knowing the engine would blow up or there might be rain to mix up all the planned strategies...

[@12savage68]

As an old head yall can be done with the 90's the 2020's no defense , 5 steps allowed , 3pt shootouts ,will forever be trash. Have fun watching nba players score 1000 pts in the allstar game in a few years.

[@chadcas]

The Spurs vs Pistons finals 2005 was a beautiful series and a good balanced example of great basketball

[@1vaultdweller]

2005 Spurs was a very boring and slow team to watch. Viewership dropped cus of them

[@andresdelportillo9917]

Larry Johnson’s hornets would be a dynasty in todays era , in Jordan’s era they were just a second round exit in the gritty east

[@adamsunderland0823]

No, people these days do not watch full games. They have no idea what they're talking about. Be honest with yourself. Do you actually watch full games? Have you gone back and watch several full games in the 90s? If you don't you don't know.

[@Flametree1492]

Props to old school players! Every game even a pickup games was for honor and heart! Here's a topic for you, let's pretentious were back to a 12 team league ? Who would go and who would play or stay? Also the Allstar game was a joke! Explain that game to me?

[@mrjermz5406]

Russell is exactly right on the ratings argument. TV ratings comparisons are literally meaningless unless you compared them to viewership of the time. The NBA is more popular today than any other time in history based on overall views and revenue. For me, the low scoring late 90s/early 00s were almost unwatchable compared to today's games. I actually QUIT watching the NBA during this time, even though my favorite player was in the league (Vince Carter). It's all subjective.

[@fortynights1513]

I must be in the minority then for enjoying the slower paced years, but that’s just me. Side note: The two and four had a lot of great talent in the 00’s. But when you break it down, every era has good and bad aspects to it, and what you enjoy can come down to preference.

[@mrjermz5406]

@@fortynights1513I prefer ball movement and transition play vs isolation grinding. Love the players but not that style. And I always loved chucking 3s. 😅

[@TieOnRadish]

It's amazing how this is the best time to find out FACTS as those are easily accessible everywhere, yet this is also the time with the most LIES that were made up to downgrade past eras. People always appreciated the past even if they think their times were better. 90s people appreciated 80s and past, and even 2000s appreciated 90s and 80s and so on UNTIL 2010s, so called "Lebron era" came, and his "fans" started discrediting everything past because they realized their favorite player can't be the GOAT unless the players in the past eras were dragged down and be viewed as worse than they were, even if that means making up lies to do so.

[@flight_knight_]

2000s, 1960s, 2010s are some great eras of basketball for athleticism defense and offense. These last few years are very intense and heavy on offense.

[@2ndand19]

Russell certainly has a tell when he strokes his head or goatee. Iykyk

[@RTBiz]

You know what’s messed up…. I don’t even know 😂😂😂

[@creditorclass6513]

Kids don't like the crowded lane but that lane was crowded with some of greatest rim protecters of all time. I think there were like 9 or 10 HOF Centers in the 90's. Yet it was ruled by a 6'6 guard.

[@AfricanH3ro]

Jonny voice sound crazy different when he's showing his face

[@ltrigga219]

On the flip side of the “who would survive” hypothetical, imagining Curry running off multiple decapitating screens by some enforcers. Even if he’s just popping out for long 2s. Aside from that, he has such a quick release he can get his shot off whenever he wants, and his crazy handle and layup package…not to mention his playmaking and defense. Don’t forget how many steals he has. Curry would be such a pest if he could hand check. He would be fine.

[@celtics17banners84]

Maybe we earned some heat but the things they’re saying are humorously moronic. At least be a little intelligent in the rebuttals

[@gold-man9]

Underrated about Steph, he has great resistance to physicality, he gets the least amount of calls of any star even though he gets roughed with

[@jr6178]

🎓

[@legendarywiimaster]

He also has ankle issues

[@The_Protagonist]

I loved the 90s. I loved the 2000s. I enjoyed the 2010s. And I enjoyed them for different reasons. I wouldn’t say there was a “golden era” for me. I will say I’ve enjoyed the NBA less and less the last 6-8 years though and it’s been getting progressively worse IMO. And I’m ok with the evolution of the 3. I get the skill level overall has increased but I believe the best players of each era could play in other eras and still be transcendent. But there is ZERO question that there has been a lack of defensive effort and it’s been increasing for years. Now I’m not saying there aren’t still elite defenders. Or that there aren’t any great 2 way players or even some teams that try to play defense. But overall the effort is waining and it stems from what Kerr said about the rules being slanted towards the offensive player and how the game is being called. “in a lot of cases the refs will tell you 'He wasn't in legal guarding position,' and you're like, 'Yeah, but he barreled over my guy.' What is legal guarding position if somebody just runs right through you?” - Kerr And when this happens players are less likely to want to play defense because they will essentially be punished for it. Halliburton and PG recently discussed the all star game and said “I don’t know how you get guys to take it serious again.” There are many other coaches, current players and fairly recent former players who say there is a lack of effort and defense in the league today. So it’s not just fans making it up or not understanding. You can see it. It makes you really appreciate a guy like AntMan who is really high octane on both ends and calls for the smoke and wants to guard the other best player. A lot of the other guys look like they are taking turns to score on each other with a “non contest” contest at best. PG and Hali also spoke about the difference in FIBA and NBA and the physicality especially when going to the basket and that makes you think before the next time you go in there. And how it wears you down during the games. And while they aren’t trying to hurt each other but it clearly affects the game and makes it harder to score. I think they need to reverse the “freedom of movement” and then enforce the travel and carry rules that exist today. And then tweak from there. I don’t want to see 80-90 point games. But I don’t want to watch where it looks like there is little to no resistance and the defenders are jumping out of the way on drives, switching with zero effort to fight through it or go around it, etc. Defense isn’t about shutting down the other player every time. It’s about making them uncomfortable, making them have to do something different than their 1st option, take a second dribble instead of 1, pass out instead of clear path. Hell stop the ball when someone is jogging coast to coast. Make them change direction or something. it doesn’t seem special as everyone can get buckets over chairs and cones or in drills. Shit the Rico Hines games go harder than a lot of NBA game and the All Star game for sure. It shouldn’t be that way.

[@2ndand19]

Never forget that every time you wear a jersey (outside of professional/collegiate sports) past the age of 22, you're making a statement to the world about yourself.

[@Joshwaheazo]

I think your right people taking the frustration out on the players is the wrong energy. I never really got what was wrong with hand checking that's not dangerous for offensive players. Maybe just bring it back in the G league and see what happends. If it's boring don't being it in. Seems like a decent place to test it. Leave all the new dribbling rules in, they are much more fun to watch. People just want to see some actual competition I think not necessarily a repeat of the bad boy pistols.

[@g-rom564]

i think this trending line ironically sums up why basketball sucks today. cuz we "Done with the 90s"

[@Opium64]

Adjust Jordan for today would be crazy I know people are mad but 6’6 jumps higher then Zach Lavigne with a expanded game I don’t know why he would be worse

[@mostmost1]

Social media folks, youtubers, tiktokers need content. Thats the only reason this is a thing. Plus its just smack talk. Good sports banter at times. The 90s was 30 years ago so ofcourse its over. Jordan talked about now more than 20 years ago.

[@RetroKid]

If today's athletes are more athletic, skilled, stronger and faster, why are they playing less games? All they're doing is deferring their time. Instead of playing 10 seasons of 82 games, they're playing 20 seasons at 41 games per seasons. It's ridiculous. As for skill, people are going to look more skilled when you have less rules to follow. It's like And1 vs NBA ball, the difference is obvious.

[@DuranmanX]

I mean, imagine if in the 90s there was constant discussion of the 60s, or in the 60s if there was constant discussion of the 30s

[@JordanFans78]

Bro no one banged on this era until they started banging on the past eras when Lebron lost his 6th finals and the Lebron media started talking trash about past eras. The 2020’s is not Lebron’s era as much as people wanna think it is. Lebron failed in the 2010’s and now here we are today with Lebron fans protecting this era like it’s part of Lebron’s because he is chasing stats because he failed in his 2010’s era. Ratings prove that Lebron’s era was weak and this era is weak because the people have spoken through viewership

[@ATroubledGreensLibrary]

🎉❤

[@ltrigga219]

This was really entertaining, considering how long y’all went at it. Wemby in the 80’s would’ve been…oh geeze. Russell’s point on physicality impacting how he’d likely play is a legitimate point. But all of this is moot, because he wouldn’t approach the game the same way in the 80s. Bring those 80s big guys into today’s game and it would also be interesting to see what facets of whose games came to life. Edit: WHAT?! Rodman wouldn’t be an absolute monster in todays NBA?? Hard pass on that take. Kerr was also a solid passer and had a great basketball IQ. And he was an absolute dog. Kerr would be fine. Rodman would be a monster.

[@alejanoelallen1952]

🏀

[@boxingprodigy9826]

When Ali called himself the greatest even he got push back initially

[@sebastianwright2454]

Hi. For me the problem is not the low or high scoring. It's the rules that favor the offensive. That's the main problem. I like 80's and 90's eras, but I could like any other era with a good balanced game.

[@brentdavis555]

That's lower pace had to do more with the ISO Ball being played. Everybody wanted to try to create a Michael Jordan of his time and you got a generation of that 10-year stretch of great players but typically those who were ball hogs who rarely passed the ball to people they didn't trust. I mean look at Kobe, Melo, etc. players who literally just stop the ball but had horrible efficiency ratings. Nowadays everybody more or less can shoot, you have higher efficiency ratings, and the floor is more spread out which makes it more energy to defend than somebody who's going one-on-one in the isolation while the other eight players on the other side of the court watching. Now obviously this is not every game but that's typically what I think when I see from 95 to about 2008.

[@creditorclass6513]

I think 2024 will be an important year historically because sooner or later certain because all that's done in the dark will eventually come to the light. The ownership is a club, don't be surprised if a certain powerbroker isn't allowed in.

[@Punkypoetico]

What about for the entirety of the playoffs, lengthen the 3 point line. Take away the 3 second rule. it’s the PLAYOFFS. So raise the stakes

[@steezsteezsteez]

We should give finals home court advantage to the conference who wins the all star game

[@barimvp897]

I was born in 02’ and jordan is the goat imo. But id be lying if i said i dont understand where the hate for pre 2000s is coming from. If i asked any old head their opinion on the game today or old players vs new players their bias would be so blatant and honestly annoying. I distinctly remember my football coach tryna convince me kobe is #2 all time because he was the “closest” to mj and lebron aint even top 5. I’ve always done my own research and formed my own opinions on things based off facts. As i get older, sports discourse is just reinforcing one thing: stupidity and ignorance are not exclusive to any generation 😂

[@dannybachner899]

We didn't care what the scores were watching basketball in the 90s or early 2000s. We just wanted competitive games where people gave effort on defense that's it we didn't care if the scores were a 100 to a 102 or 70 to 80

[@petersonofleo11]

If people didn't care about scores in the early 2000s then defensive minded teams like the Spurs would not have horrible tv ratings in the finals. Hell the 90s ratings on the finals were consistent because of Jordan who was the most popular athlete in the world on the 90s reached the finals 6 times. Hell when the Rockets reached the finals against the Knicks it had weak ratings and game 5 was completely overshadowed by the Bronco Chase. I am a Spurs fan and fans love to watch offensive minded players do their stuff. A shame that defensive juggernauts like Duncan and Hakeem had weak ratings on the finals in their prime.

[@dannybachner899]

@@petersonofleo11 You said it yourself popularity. The spurs and Duncan were not popular. Had nothing todo with scores or defense. When the Spurs played the Lakers they got plenty of ratings. Smaller markets always were less popular. Really has nothing to do with how many points are scored.

[@petersonofleo11]

@@dannybachner899 of course the ratings of the Spurs vs Lakers would be high at the end of the day people were tunning in to watch Shaq and Kobe. Shaq was at his peak and Kobe was at his most athletic version specially when he was Frobe. Even David Stern himself famously said that his dream finals match up was Lakers vs Lakers.

[@mariosuarez3411]

Exactly. Nobody was looking at the final score to determine if the game was good. The final score was what it was, that's it.

[@3manu3ls0n]

People keep trying all sorts of things to keep the discussion going, but even with all the rules back then and a lot less years, Jordan's stats are still better than LBJ in so many areas. There's only one goat and it's not even close. A true fan of the sport recognizes that.

[@Lucas-cf5sz]

play in tournament makes sense in a shortened season but in a regular season makes no sense, why punish 7 and 8 for making the playoff so 9 and 10 can have a chance? isn't that what the regular season is for?

[@frederickdelius1106]

"Make this a lil bigger" ....thats what she said

[@EngMadison]

I was in High School in the early 2000's and absolutely yes, the 3 point shot was a bad shot. Unless you were wide open and were one of the few players who could demonstrate you could make that shot regularly, you did something else. And again, I have memories of Larry Brown calling time outs id Rasheed or Billups took a 3 too early in the shot clock or in transition. But my question for the modern game, with all these tall forwards and centers able to hit thise shots. It seems like theres no care for possessions, and who is getting the rebound? Isnt there still something to be said about having your big guy diwn low to contest for the rebound? Seems like everyones around the 3 point line.

[@gold-man9]

1:38:45 Harden would do well in the 80s because he don’t travel because he has to, he’s a master at bending the rules, he really smart in that context so he’d do really well in any era

[@zxcvb3772]

Is that why he always flames out in the playoffs when he couldn't get his usual calls?

[@gold-man9]

@@zxcvb3772 No one said he was good at bending playoff rules

[@ianmason2003]

with flopping in particular, you could act back in the 90's, but most didn't because to take it to the extreme like Leflop, you come off as soft. Most players back then wanted the opposite. Imagine Bird flopping and acting like a tap on the head was an anvil.

[@MrFantastic23]

I feel like some of that is at the fault of the " old heads " but I guess me being 47 I'd be considered an old head. I grew up watching the NBA started at about 10 years old and I watched and consumed every ounce of NBA basketball that I could up through. Probably around 2010 and then I was still into it pretty deep until about 2018 and then I kind of started to get out of it. And I say all that to save this. I am so tired of the goat debate. I personally and one of those people that think Michael Jordan is the goat. But I am tired of talking about it. I don't necessarily like the way the game is played today. But I recognize that these players skill level and athleticism is better than it used to be. Now. With that said, I still think Michael Jordan being the athletic freak and fundamentally sound player that he was would be just as dominant today as he was then. But the fact that it's like we don't accept anyone new will create that rebellion from the new generation. My thing is it's not even that new. If anyone's talking about LeBron James being the greatest of all time. He's been in the league 20 years which means I was 27. And I put LeBron James at number 2 so I don't know. It's kind of interesting to think about because again, if we're talking about LeBron James kind of being the flash point for this kind of conversation like him and Durant. I mean that's damn near 2 decades ago when they came into the league so and they're not even in their prime anymore. I don't know it's kind of a weird debate

[@poly_g6068]

They 100% deserved it. Not for the guys like you who actually study the game and form their opinions FROM your studies, but the people who just blindly hate everything that isn't from their era and don't even acknowledge basic stats and league averages which are easily searched.

[@coreyshafarman8918]

I just think the idea that guys like MJ, Kobe, or Allen Iverson would score 40+ in todays game is ridiculous. Guys do play defense today, and there are some great defenders today. There’s lots of different factors on why scoring is up. Part of it is the rules and foul calling. But the spacing and overall skill on the court is also, I think, the main factor. With shooters all over the court standing behind the three point line, defenders have so much more ground to cover. There’s not much they can do

[@zxcvb3772]

It's not ridiculous, because you can easily abuse the defensive 3's rule. Luka Doncic literally spelled it out for the NBA fans that don't know ball. The paint is wide open, it helps if you have shooters on your team to spread the floor, but it's so easy to drive to the paint in today's game because of the rule. There is a reason why guards dominate the games today.

[@coreyshafarman8918]

@@zxcvb3772 all of that is true. But still, nobody is scoring 40 right now, so why do we think these guys from the past would? Isolation offense was way more common back then. If MJ or AI played today, I think they’d score in the low to mid 30’s, but with way more assists. Like Luka.

[@zxcvb3772]

@@coreyshafarman8918One of the oldest guy in the league, Lebron averaged 30ppg last season. You put prime Jordan, AI or Kobe in this era, and give them a bad team, they will average 40, or even 45, if you give them a good team, they will average 35 with more assists like you said. If both Jordan and Kobe don't play defense, they could even go for 50 ppg on a bad team.

[@coreyshafarman8918]

@@zxcvb3772 even if you give them a bad team and just let them cook, I don’t think they’d hit 40. Defenses are more complex, they can play zones and different coverages. You watch early 2000’s and before, it was clear out a side and play iso ball one on one. The game doesn’t work like that anymore

[@zxcvb3772]

@@coreyshafarman8918 And if SGA could average 30ppg, Jordan and Kobe could. Zone defense is not even utilized much, go listen to JJ Redick's podcast, the episode with Tim Legler. They breakdown the games and said that most teams don't practice zone defense, and don't use it much in games. Heat is the only team that practice zone defense and use it regularly. If players like Luka Doncic says it's easy to score in today's NBA, it's easy to score in today's NBA, doesn't matter if the defense is more complex, you still can't play defense in this era because of the rules. Somebody like James Harden averaged 36ppg, and that is a free throw merchant.

[@Recovery305]

Comparing across eras, while interesting, is pretty unfeasible given how different playstyle and rules are.

[@dannybachner899]

When we complain about the rule changes, the traveling, the carrying by default we are complaining about adam silver

[@konasavage]

Alright, here we go. The 90s had: The best likeable characters Rivalries meant something Expansion teams and an influx of great young players You could keep a favorite player who wouldn't bail in free agency NBA on NBC was lit The Dream Team put the game on a world stage.

[@hugovazquez7533]

Holy fuck this is a long ass videos. Also your voice sounds much different in podcast form

[@jonnyarnett]

lol, I hear that a LOT. I don't use the same mic, and I'm also a lot more relaxed when doing pods instead of reading a script.

[@gustavsorensen9301]

God doesn’t like it when people curse

[@hugovazquez7533]

@@gustavsorensen9301 holy shit

[@handsomeX]

​@@gustavsorensen9301Damnit!

[@Recovery305]

Scripted narration sounds different compared to an organic conversation.

[@benberry792]

Make 'em Run!! Push-ups for missed free-throws during a game!! 😂

[@redbogaming6009]

In this video, you said you wanted to make the reason why LeBron James is so hated 1. Kobe fans, imagine everyone saying that you are the closest thing to Michael Jordan. so automatically people think that means you’re the second greatest basketball player of all time. Then all of a sudden the most hype athlete probably in sports come along, now he’s deem as the chosen one it’s going to be deemed as the next Michael Jordan Kobe fans are like hold up have you forgotten about me, I won three titles before this dude even entered the lead, so how can he be the next Jordan when I was the closest thing to Jordan that you guys were saying. So LeBron James lived up to the to the hype from day one and I think from his 2nd to 3rd year in the league, Kobe fans, and LeBron James fans always hated each other till this day and that’s over 20+ years of hatred towards each other. And it’s grown even stronger because now Kobe fans feel slighted because he’s not even in the conversation anymore, so they truly hate him even more till the day. 2. people forget that LeBron James was the most likable person in sports obviously when he did the decision that change, but the second biggest reason is because of his political views and stance. if you look at Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan, they were always quiet about their political views. LeBron James was not like that he was the villain in Miami and then he became a super villain when he started talking politics. And it started with the Trayvon Martin incident start putting his hat in for presidency for the second term LeBron James use his platform to make sure that Trump didn’t win. So now so many conservatives are coming after him and not just him the sports world because they felt like going to work and to political. Which I disagree with because sports is always being political, but they’re going after LeBron James Hard every time they see LeBron James they’re coming after him, In the common section on social media, some people say well he shouldn’t be talking politics. So right now they hate him and it’s deeper than basketball. It’s truly is they really don’t like him as a human being I think. 3 obviously number three is Michael Jordan and the goat conversation. Obviously, Jordan fans don’t like him because I think he’s the biggest threat to MJ Legacy in terms of people having LeBron James as the goat example they’re so many Kobe Bryant fans, right, the majority of Kobe Bryant fans will still say Michael Jordan is the goat and Kobe Bryant is second. LeBron James fans don’t think that way they believe that LeBron James, and then Michael Jordan or whoever is second. John fans were kind of quiet and in the background and until LeBron James won his third ring, and then you start hearing the noise got louder about who is the goat now Jordan fans are coming out of the woodwork. And also people like to say, he flops too much. He cries too much to the ref. That’s why they don’t like him, but those are the three biggest reasons people hate LeBron James right now.

[@ilcanalequalunque]

1:05:21 jordan did in an interview! There's a video on KZbin!

[@leechrec]

All this done with the 90s and other absurdities that have been put out recently are just distractions from the issue of Lebron's alleged use of performance enhancing drugs as insinuated by KG.

[@user-uy4cv9iq8e]

magsy would be a decent center today and brook lopez would be a volleyball player in the 90s

[@cedricduyongco]

I've said this multiple times, the rules and style of play define the game. So don't fault todays players if they shoot better because they can do a full step back to get separation and open threes. They are just making full use of what is allowed. At the same time, don't fault the players of the past and say they don't have handles when they can't dribble with the hand underneath the ball or a hand was always pushing them out of their position when dribbling (thus they dribble turning back from the defender). Don't judge players by the era they are not playing in. Thats like saying a High school graduate of today as he knows the theory of relativity and Einstein is trash as he was older when he discovered the theory kf relatively. Judge the players by the era they play in. I hate seeing stats comparison of players of different eras without context of the rules and style of play of their era.

[@patrickdougherty684]

I believe that flopping is a worse form of gamesmanship as it is aesthetically tacky, especially coming from players as conscious of their roles as artists as Harden and Embiid are

[@owensmith2137]

Jonny do you have a favourite Lakers jerseys and does Russell have any favorites?

[@RTBiz]

I have a 1996 shaq jersey, but I loved when #8 Kobe wore the light blue Minneapolis jerseys those were 🔥🔥🔥

[@jonnyarnett]

My favorite is my 2012 Team USA Kobe jersey. It’s the Blue one, and I wear it every 4th of July 🇺🇸

[@owensmith2137]

@@RTBiz Thanks! Do you have the black Orlando one?

[@owensmith2137]

@@jonnyarnett Perfect time to wear it!

[@RTBiz]

@@owensmith2137 Honestly, that is probably 2nd or 3rd on the list of jerseys I really want!

[@LogicalReasons]

There's nothing positive about forcing a an owner of a team to sell his team because that was that was clearly an illustration that owners actually don't own their teams anymore. The players walk all over them.

[@richardscott9973]

But we have to consider that rules and fouls are now different from then...context is also important