Brett Johnson: US Most Wanted Cybercriminal | Lex Fridman Podcast

Brett Johnson was a US Most Wanted cybercriminal, called the Original Internet Godfather by US Secret Service for building the first organized cybercrime community called ShadowCrew, which was the precursor to today's darknet and darknet markets. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:
- Public Goods: publicgoods.com/lex and use code LEX to get $15 off
- NetSuite: netsuite.com/lex to get free product tour
- Blinkist: blinkist.com/lex and use code LEX to get 25% off premium
- MasterClass: masterclass.com/lex to get 15% off
- Onnit: lexfridman.com/onnit to get up to 10% off
EPISODE LINKS:
Brett's Twitter: / gollumfun
Brett's Website: anglerphish.com
PODCAST INFO:
Podcast website: lexfridman.com/podcast
Apple Podcasts: apple.co/2lwqZIr
Spotify: spoti.fi/2nEwCF8
RSS: lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/
Full episodes playlist: • Lex Fridman Podcast
Clips playlist: • Lex Fridman Podcast Clips
OUTLINE:
0:00 - Introduction
3:15 - Early years
37:32 - Phishing and social engineering
55:36 - SolarWinds cyberattack
1:01:23 - Future social engineering fears
1:04:04 - Early cybercrimes
1:16:38 - Cybercrime entrepreneurship
1:20:06 - ShadowCrew
1:51:10 - Dark web
1:59:56 - ShadowCrew arrested
2:11:55 - Cybercrime
2:17:02 - Love
2:49:06 - Prison
3:17:18 - Life after prison
3:39:06 - Advice for young people
3:40:30 - Hope for the future
3:43:59 - Meaning of life
SOCIAL:
- Twitter: / lexfridman
- LinkedIn: / lexfridman
- Facebook: / lexfridman
- Instagram: / lexfridman
- Medium: / lexfridman
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- Support on Patreon: / lexfridman

[@lexfridman]

Here are the timestamps. Please check out our sponsors to support this podcast. 0:00 - Introduction & sponsor mentions: - Public Goods: publicgoods.com/lex and use code LEX to get $15 off - NetSuite: netsuite.com/lex to get free product tour - Blinkist: blinkist.com/lex and use code LEX to get 25% off premium - MasterClass: masterclass.com/lex to get 15% off - Onnit: lexfridman.com/onnit to get up to 10% off 3:15 - Early years 37:32 - Phishing and social engineering 55:36 - SolarWinds cyberattack 1:01:23 - Future social engineering fears 1:04:04 - Early cybercrimes 1:16:38 - Cybercrime entrepreneurship 1:20:06 - ShadowCrew 1:51:10 - Dark web 1:59:56 - ShadowCrew arrested 2:11:55 - Cybercrime 2:17:02 - Love 2:49:06 - Prison 3:17:18 - Life after prison 3:39:06 - Advice for young people 3:40:30 - Hope for the future 3:43:59 - Meaning of life

[@korsakov1997]

@@tannerannichiarico7255 shhh

[@nielminor7529]

His stripper girlfriend likely never stopped doing drugs. She hid it better.

[@vanessa1569]

@@npc2172 Ali G (if he can stop himself pontificating for 5 minutes) for shiz. Louis CK would be amazing but I doubt he’s doing any podcast; love him but he’s too much of a control freak …Ricky Gervais would be good as would Hugh Laurie.

[@pb-vj1qs]

Lex, this is very similar to gunmo's interview kzbin.info/www/bejne/nWfMmIeAjcikrNE

[@asap9779]

@@tannerannichiarico7255 nah but like he would if he could

[@chauck1118]

I'm glad he's seen the error of his ways, but I keep coming back to the people whose retirement accounts he robbed. Think about that. Working your entire life towards this goal and having it stolen from you. And then the guy who does it gets to act like a hero for turning his life around and yucking it up with Lex for 4 hours. Something about that just bothers me.

[@ActivEthan]

Retirement accounts are covered, they’re fine.

[@williamhodge8095]

I see your side well, but when look at how much congress representatives, like Pelosi and pretty much all of them come into office poor and with in a couple years are worth millions at our expense makes this guy look like small potatoes,, Just sad for us the citizens

[@seannym95]

Dang… you ain’t wrong

[@creationbeatsuk]

I had this exact same thought. As interesting as this guy is he has ruined lives. We turn people like this into celebrities, while people like us who try to do good for others get shit on in life. It's like when criminals start a legit business and get praised for turning their life around, well yeh... you stole a shit load of money from people, you have the cash to start your own business.

[@ericavram361]

N😅hh m i gt ini😮 nn

[@thiefoftomorrow]

It’s rare u can listen to someone you’ve never heard of for nearly 4 hours and immediately want another 4. This was off the charts

[@jasonf3963]

Exactly. I was so hooked.

[@realjamesbond]

@@jasonf3963 1

[@watchprayact2069]

Not really, what keeps you hooked is wanting to know how a criminal can rip you off . In hopes they won't get you.

[@GrittyC13]

Yeah I just saw his episode of koncrete, and clicked on this one immediately after finishing that entire episode. It’s the same story but I’m watching anyway for the details that may be in this episode that wasn’t in that one lol

[@tpalden753]

@@watchprayact2069 or how you can be the criminal 👀

[@TayWoode]

I can imagine a lot of people will think he’s cool while he’s laughing and joking like he doesn’t care what he’s done, he doesn’t seem sorry, he’s never to be trusted, but people will still fall for his bs, he’ll still manipulate people in a different way. He really is a narcissistic psychopath

[@Lisabug2659]

How anyone would believe this guy is anything other than a Narc/psychopath is beyond me. He literally is enjoying his time reliving his sad and useless escapades. Such a BS artist. He’s criminal, manipulative and finds himself fascinating.

[@SacredOwl]

Ya, it's obvious. When he pays his victims back and stops telling his story with glee, maybe I will change my mind, but probably not.

[@peacepocket]

All the laughing is psychotic to me!

[@jaygoodman2466]

Soo

[@jimjones8967]

But he's soo good at storytelling

[@ALL_CAPS__]

When you grow up in a cycle of dysfunction, drugs, and crime, your thinking and behavior will always be colored by this. Unless you’ve experienced it firsthand, it’s hard to grasp how difficult it is to break these norms. Congrats to this man for changing his life. These stories need to be told so those of us that have experienced it see examples of ones that make it out.

[@sooperfly88]

Said well my friend

[@forthehomies7043]

It's unfortunate because he will always have to live with what he's done. He grew up, and he's lucky to have done so because many criminals are not given that opportunity. He's addicted to the nature of crime, that's why he's doing what he does today, by helping catch the bad guys. Fortunately he's realized and had the opportunity to realize that being in prison isn't fun. I agree with you, and for most people it is impossible to break their habits.

[@god_is_good493]

Truth!!! I've lived it and overcome a difficult childhood and young adulthood by testimony and faith in Jesus Christ.

[@josephmcgrath5267]

1

[@ALL_CAPS__]

@@god_is_good493 I’m glad for you. I’ve known a lot of people, some in my own family, that used religion or a 12 step program to overcome. whatever your difficulties are, keep and use whatever helps you stay clean or fly straight. As they say, "the program doesn’t work, unless you work it." I’m not a believer, or did not use religion, but I do like the saying " to each their own". all religious texts can help you be better. we just have to be sure we are using what can help people, and not the parts that hurt and tear down.

[@ignasa007]

Oh man, the diversity of interviewees, this is such a special channel!

[@ALCRAN2010]

Try Soft White Underbelly channel

[@ignasa007]

oh wow, that's a great channel, thanks for the rcmd!

[@michaelgorden8111]

Almost like he learned from Rogan lol

[@AJ-pc9gu]

@@ALCRAN2010 great channel for individual stories, but doesnt do intellectual education as far as i know

[@siamakkhodadoust6393]

@@AJ-pc9gu I guess the challenge is upon us, the commentators, to come up with our own unique conclusion.

[@jimbowred1983]

Best Lex Fridman episode ever. This guy could carry 8 hours of material. Well done. Esp staying out of his way and letting him talk.

[@azithro8]

Qwww

[@jt9907]

Best for me was Escobar’s pilot mule

[@jspot_5198]

My thoughts exactly

[@anthonycarrasquillo5883]

@@jt9907 no t a

[@anthonycarrasquillo5883]

@@jt9907 no t a

[@rawgasmiclove]

This guy is getting a lot of pleasure telling his stories... I get the sense he still doesn't care about the hurt & trauma he has caused. I would believe he understands the gravity of his choices if he spent the rest of his life working to pay those poor people back. I appreciate the calm & quiet Lex maintains. He let's the guy spill & spill & spill.

[@mcshwazy]

I kinda have feeling we are hearing a lot of untrue stories that aren't really ways to find out if what he says is true or not. He was supposedly this amazing theatre student. He is very skilled with his words.

[@headhuntergaming0210]

i disagree

[@victorblock3421]

He wouldn't do what he did if he had any moral compass. Incarceration didn't change him.

[@rawgasmiclove]

@@victorblock3421 I do believe that people can change & see the error of their thinking but I agree with you. He hasn't changed. You can see be how much he's enjoying telling his stories &... when he gets emotional talking about the prostitute he shacked up with he's selfishly crying for himself.

[@victorblock3421]

@@rawgasmiclove I certainly believe people can reform themselves from bad/negative things but it depends a lot on the motivation that person had or what their moral compass is. I make mistakes every day and made some big ones in the past but shame and my moral compass brought me back from the brink and set me straight. I didn't need counseling or any of that. Being more mature helped. The key is no bad screw ups and greatly exceed bad stuff with good stuff.

[@elizabethscrivner6891]

I am a therapist. I have worked in private practice and with people getting out of prison. I did CBT both types of spaces. I believe it makes a difference. I have listened to this 2 times. I find it fascinating. I have been a therapist for 25 years.

[@hoi-polloi905]

What do you do for work?

[@peterfazio9306]

This guest came out of left field, Lex. Great job. People need to know that this type of story is a real thing in the US, the richest country on Earth. It's a surreal world we live in.

[@loreneskidmore2591]

"Richest country on earth" has a red flag and white cross. Economic wealth has been drained from us citizens for a long long time

[@drewcookies]

The US is the 8th ranked richest. Get your head out of your ass lol

[@gustavsjokvist2668]

Care to elaborate?

[@gustavsjokvist2668]

@Black2th that is

[@ZandarKoad]

But is this story real? The speaker is a self-labeled master manipulator. After listening to him speak for 5 minutes... I mean, there's just no way I can know for sure if important elements of his story are true.

[@plasmaman9592]

I can relate to his childhood. I was selling drugs at 12 to pay all the bills for my mom and moved out to live on my own at 14 and continued to selling massive amounts until I turned 18 and could get a job without a parent's signature. I took a huge pay cut but was able to get a license and buy a house and move to the county, start a landscaping business and I'm still in that house 22 years later. Now I have a metal fabrication shop.

[@dreckigerdan3739]

and do you wonder how many people died because of your drugs?

[@kittiesandcolas7957]

​@dreckigerdan3739 Why would he? Not once in my life have I met a dealer who forces anyone to buy..

[@dreckigerdan3739]

@@kittiesandcolas7957 by your logic it's also okay to sell weapons, do even understand what kinda bullshit you wrote?

[@ASTERisk44946]

@@kittiesandcolas7957 🤣

[@kaspervestergaard2383]

@@dreckigerdan3739 One might hurt others. Drug don't directly hurt anyone else but those taking it. They know the risk. A person buying a weapon illegally, is very likely to go out and kill someone. Terrible example.

[@user-cm8en8or1p]

Hard to believe he became a criminal having such a fine upstanding mother in his life.

[@raydead2670]

My mom does things similar but not as extreme. In terms of manipulation not selling drug nd illegal activities

[@kennethianhusband7433]

Plenty of people have horrible parents but don't end up being a complete scumbag

[@omnificad]

Sounds like a case of a mother with Borderline Personality Disorder

[@007nadineL]

We can assume someone abused him as a child

[@kennymacdowell1257]

I detect your sarcasm, but it’s truly sad for children to endure adult issues 26th year teaching elementary. :-(

[@enriquecardona1819]

Lex this has got to be one of your best interviews ever. Elon musk, bustamante and this guy. I have listened to all 3 interviews like 30x each

[@brettjohnsonshow]

Thank you for listening!

[@jaredcrenshaw7665]

Bustamante? That dude us a total slimy scammer.

[@SteelxWolf]

@@jaredcrenshaw7665well he is a government agent. Thats their game lol

[@CodenameDuchess1984]

"If you're addicted to something, you can not love anything else, except the addiction" - This line hit me on so many levels, and has put a lot into perspective

[@mwalsh128]

Amen to that!

[@spacecees9013]

The problem if You look bret in his eyes ,by the way blue means snakes oilsman

[@CiCiLeathercraft]

@Brett Johnson ok “Brett Johnson” I’m sure you’re really experienced with drugs 💀🤣 is this something you talked about in bible study?

[@programmer1840]

@Brett Johnson Great to have you in the comments, Bret. Thanks for the podcast. That point on addiction really resonated with me and it can be addiction to anything, like work.

[@DotJus]

Addiction is the progressive narrowing of what brings you joy.

[@joblow8392]

textbook narcissism, psycopathy and antisocial personality disorder. the glibness, charm, recklessness, disregard for authority, manipulation of every character in his story. amazing interview - Lex just allowed him to speak

[@kam1am]

So true

[@xKarenWalkerx]

It’s actually Borderline. Borderline in men encompasses narcissism (grandiosity), psychopathy (factor 2), antisocial is psychopathy all with Borderline pathology organization (incredibly dangerous). His mother, by his description, is Borderline too, but more female typology. Borderline Personality Disorder is strongly associated with Native American admixture. Kentucky has high amounts of native Indian in the Anglo population. Johnny Deep also from Kentucky had a similar Borderline mother.

[@MisterNMason]

Truth

[@brezhnev89]

Exactly what I thought

[@Zenden1ST]

@@xKarenWalkerx so borderline Personality Disorder is a racial trait now or just correlated to bad living environment???

[@eddier155]

Some might despise this guest, but he's highly intelligent and carries a metric ton of real life wisdom. We should all be happy that he's supposedly turned his life around.

[@nancyjukanovich-knapp2789]

I cannot relate to any of his story...at the same time I find it fascinating!! I hope Brett has a much better life today. The lessons he has to of learned...amazing. Amazing story. Thank you for sharing.

[@kennethcarrier6739]

I fell asleep with YT running in the background, I started having this crazy dream, and woke up and this guy was telling his story which was part of my dream…. This is crazy!

[@juliecarr2465]

Same here!

[@garrysekelli6776]

Also

[@jimjones8967]

This is actually a common occurrence among many people. Outside stimuli has a big effect on how your brain processes information while you are in different states of sleep. REM sleep is where the brain is influenced by outside stimuli the most.

[@michaelstanley9143]

Same. Wild police chase dream.

[@stuntman0691]

Crazy exact same thing here lol

[@exapsy]

I woke up listening to this podcast, dreaming about Prisons, and I learned 2 main things: 1. Listening to Lex Fridman's podcast's while sleeping makes you go trippin' 2. Never ever tell a prison inmate or guard or anybody that you're in there for "some computer crimes" even if you're a cybercriminal xD

[@allenclark4235]

I woke up listening to Theo Von and Duncan Trussel. Much nicer experience lol.

[@mcshwazy]

Yes! I had same experience but Lex had Donald Hoffman talking about reality. My dreams were of what he was talking about with consciousness and interfaces like what he was saying was directing my dream. When I woke up I was trippin and felt like I understood everything Hoffman was talking about in the pod. I went back and tried to watch the podcast again since i hadn't watched it prior to autoplay during sleep. When I really watched it while awake it made no sense. It was such a strange feeling I had waking up like things finally made sense and then just went away thru out the day.

[@04dram04]

You shouldn't listen to any media while sleeping. That programs your subconscious mind. I recommend just white noise, to sleep

[@allenclark4235]

@@04dram04So wouldn't the smartest thing be to let something educational play.

[@sjmzeldaavgnfan]

No way! It happened to you too? I swear it happened to me as well!

[@midnitelite7210]

I commend you for what you are doing with your channel. Thank you for allowing us to hear stories straight from the people who lived them.

[@OverLeveragedTrader]

I literally sat the whole interview and oh man was this a good one thanks for sharing

[@NexusOfBach]

Lex BY FAR has the greatest introductions ever. They are so graceful, unequivocally precise, and greatly capturing. Rock on sir.

[@ninajefferson4018]

What's wrong w you. This dude stole masses of money from individuals. Not corporations from regular people. You should hate him not praise him cause he paid for his crime in prison. He didn't pay anyone back! He's a piece of garbage who should be made to pay back that lady he defrauded with the elephant.

[@NexusOfBach]

@@ninajefferson4018 Talking about Lex get off the pipe and stop looking for a fight

[@leuquim]

You mean unequivocally?

[@NexusOfBach]

@@leuquim yes I did! Ty for the catch sir.

[@jeweltunstall7073]

Very well said! Per usual it took me a Novelette to express your short and sweet and deeply meaningful perspective!!! Love this!!!

[@rjt98]

At the minimum.... this is 1000x better than anything you've ever watched on cable TV.

[@insigniamalignia]

listen the fuck up randy whateverthefuck name travis, cable tv died in the 1980's. since then, it has been fake propaganda created by the fbi to brainwash us into buying products so that they can support their overseas operations

[@justinesmith3498]

If you like these kid of stories you should follow these 2 channels -Matt Cox True Crime -Koncrete

[@thusomodika5065]

00

[@thusomodika5065]

000

[@thusomodika5065]

@@justinesmith3498 0

[@DUSTINBARTRUM]

People may think he’s exaggerating about how things are around here but I can assure you it’s even worse now then what he’s explaining. As hard as that is to believe. Kudos to this guy for not letting the toxicity of eastern Kentucky keep him down forever because most people around here stay here until they die.

[@JasonWh]

So, as the owner of a Cybersecurity Provider firm that works to ensure guys like this aren't successful, I deal with guys like Brett daily. Ask him this... .did he go back and pay back ANY of his victims? NOPE. He's still bragging. The answer here is this.... If they sound like a used car salesman, walk away.

[@Bri-254]

Exactly the guy is a absolute cretin.

[@BulkernatorKerb]

If you knew what you're talking about you'd know their sentencing (especially for federal cases) almost always features "restitution" which is garnished from their income from the day of their sentence, even being garnished from their in-prison income.

[@JasonWh]

@@BulkernatorKerb I’m a cybersecurity and forensics expert. Not a corrections or legal expert. The bragging is particularly disheartening and being I deal with scum like this daily, I have no tolerance for bragging. Perhaps I don’t know what I’m talking about. Who knows.

[@rockitmeena]

@@JasonWh What did he brag about?

[@JasonWh]

@@rockitmeena at the beginning, he laughed and bragged about his theft exploits. The smile on his face tells me he’s enjoying the retelling of his exploits. I deal with guys like this on a daily basis as rhetorical owner of a cybersecurity and forensics firm. Trying to save companies from these guys dealing with terrified business owners and smalll business employees who may not have a job the next day. Dealing with those who are being extorted and threatened with the disclosure of their data and the extortion of their clients. It’s an incredibly dirty and unsavory world masked as something else.

[@ErvNoelProduction]

This was an incredibly fascinating conversation. Lex, you are KILLING these, please more of these cyber security/cyber criminal sit downs, they're fire

[@ninajefferson4018]

What's wrong w you. This dude stole masses of money from individuals. Not corporations from regular people. You should hate him not praise him cause he paid for his crime in prison. He didn't pay anyone back! He's a piece of garbage who should be made to pay back that lady he defrauded with the elephant.

[@ErvNoelProduction]

@@ninajefferson4018 nowhere in my comment did I say I liked him. I liked the conversation. Reading comprehension is essential. I also showed appreciation for Lex. If you don’t like the content, you can always watch something you enjoy. Wish you the best

[@spacecees9013]

Reed book John macfee

[@spacecees9013]

@@ErvNoelProduction at the moment cybercrime is even more dificult

[@ninajefferson4018]

@@ErvNoelProduction Whatev Erv.

[@sacredflowspace]

Seriously sat here and watched entire 3 hours and 47 minutes of this epicness ♾☀️🖤 thanks lex appreciate your time and consideration!!!

[@seanmichael7714]

Same so amazing

[@user-sw2tt9nl8y]

This podcast is like listening to a movie like 'Blow'! Amazing!! Tanx a lot @lex

[@rrek7]

Click the ellipses (three dots in top right hand screen) and change the playback speed to 2. Cuts time in half ;)

[@treverdrew6993]

You skipped the last 25 seconds? What's wrong with you?! Lol ...this is an amazing interview.

[@morganowo1350]

Same. First time, too.

[@Reallionaire314]

Idk how this channel keeps popping up on my auto play. I usually let KZbin auto play for hours, and lately about half the time I do this I see an interview from this channel. I'm always waking up to it or falling asleep to it. But today, this interview actually caught my attention. I'm going to subscribe now, and go down the rabbit hole of interviews I've missed!!

[@kevthepoet]

Lex is really good at asking the questions that will get interesting philosophical and/or emotional answers.

[@Jath2112]

It is terrifying that such a compelling and articulate person could be so casually evil.

[@MrThenry1988]

I'm skeptical

[@crilf5830]

i couldn't agree more.

[@jacobgirman6352]

Master social engineer

[@flowerwater9136]

It is also terrifying how casually evil his mother is to her own child.

[@equaliser2265]

Articulate? Hahahaahah

[@makobrkic1988]

This guy is happy where he is now, and would not change anything in his past because he would not be where he is now... He caused so much pain and suffering and we, as society, are feeding him now. He doesn't deserve to be concerned a hero!

[@SP-iv2jj]

agreed

[@coryaw95]

He has served his time. He is allowed to be satisfied with who he is.

[@anthonysteen56]

And what if you made a list of your shortcomings, rules and laws you’ve broken? What if you shared them publicly? How do you imagine the people would think of you?

[@mrbananaflasher]

@@Cookieisaqueer Sounds like you don't believe in redemption. That being your opinion you're obviously entitled to, but you don't fundamentally get to dictate the inner state of any individual; regardless of their actions. Especially when your virtues are predicated on the belief of being better than someone. If you truly believe in what you say, then your problem wouldn't be with the individual, rather the justice system as a whole. What is the purpose of serving a sentence then, if not to pay for what you've done?

[@mrbananaflasher]

He would not change anything in his past, because he can't. This is a foolish statement. To me this seems to be made to invoke a reaction because it literally has no other purpose or meaning. Him not deserving being 'concerned a hero' is a valid opinion, yet I've not seen a single comment stating this. Again, stated to invoke a reaction. Saying anyone doesn't deserve, or denying an individual happiness regardless of their actions, only reflects upon your own poor sense of worth. How can you find happiness unless you accept things, including the past, as they are?

[@justinthomas2805]

I watched the whole interview closely hoping to see real remorse, it’s very clear that this was all just bragging and proud of what he did, and still is proud about the things and amounts he pulled off

[@ComicBookVault]

The way he even said he is an amazing actor. Just pure narcissist, he’s so gullible of himself

[@TheREALJackFurious]

Like he has ALL these talents the world needs to know about. As Conor said, “who the fook is this guy?”

[@ashred9665]

Brett's honesty is there for everyone to see.

[@happytrailsgaming]

Hopefully you’re being sarcastic 😅 Dudes full of shit

[@jordenfuhriman740]

This is the best podcast I've ever came across. I love the diversity of ppl he's able to bring on here it's actually impressive

[@MrDonpasqualino]

This one and Soft White Underbelly on KZbin

[@ninajefferson4018]

What's wrong w you. This dude stole masses of money from individuals. Not corporations from regular people. You should hate him not praise him cause he paid for his crime in prison. He didn't pay anyone back! He's a piece of garbage who should be made to pay back that lady he defrauded with the elephant.

[@jonmarquis4952]

@@MrDonpasqualino I'll have to check that one out as well....used to watch jre til he went to Spotify but lex definitely gets great guests on here

[@otkspazz103]

@@MrDonpasqualino kw

[@lilnato4248]

@@jonmarquis4952 he😊😊j 😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊in

[@DasGigPig]

I can listen to this guy tell stories all day long. Lex has a knack for finding these people, sitting them down and getting the best from them. Always wondered why his podcasts were so long, now I know why. Compelling interview.

[@syme9925]

I had the pleasure of being given a Top-Secret classified briefing on Cybersecurity as it relates to industry in 2021 (in light of Colonial Pipeline). After that briefing I bought: 6 month supply of rations (rice, salt, supplements) with supplements A 9mm pistol with 1000 rounds of ammo Water filter system Backlog of prescription meds (3 months best I can get)

[@Linux333]

So you’re a crazy person..

[@peaknonsense2041]

His story about snapping put of nowhere reminds me of that recent story of that guy jumping over the Judge's tsble to attack her out of nowhere. Maternal parental abuse is less talked about but often creates monsters.

[@lucashinch]

Absolutely the very best interview I've heard. Lex, this interview has been positively entertaining with educational insight as to the behavioral motivation, actions and consequences, for better or worse of a decent human being. I feel Brett is a success in many ways, more than I'll ever know. His story has inspired me on this quiet Sunday afternoon. Lex, I gave you 3 hours by listening to the interview and I'm certain I've spent my time wisely. This interview has reinforced to me that most decisions are made "to arrive at a destination by means of least resistance" whether metaphorically or not, changes are made due to lifes' impedances or a fear of consequences. I believe that when life becomes unmanageable , a person can truly do good for others and themselves and hopefully create change. I appreciate your work . Thank you for sharing the awesome results of your time and efforts. I'm certain what you do is not easy . You're truly a professional. Well done and thank you. Best Regards, LTH

[@davidcagle920]

Don't forget those 47 minutes too Also this guys learned to code.

[@crbradbury8282]

Brett's honestly and cohones shined brightest in this one sir. Lex does absolutely amazing in every interview, that's a given

[@taintedsasquatch398]

If this is the best you haven’t seen very good interviews before.

[@auspicioustoot]

Well Brett has turned his story into a novel basically so that he can sell it.

[@lang1892]

nothing beats elon interview tho😙

[@daAwns3r]

Lex, I really like your interviews with criminals that turned their lives around. Like this one with Brett Johnson and Roger Reaves. Its very interesting.

[@CincyPharmer]

Roger Reaves interview was one of my top 10 podcast episodes ever. It was like listening to Bob Ross paint stories about cocaine trafficking. Incredible.

[@Patso44]

@@CincyPharmer underrated Bob Ross comment!

[@chrisruskai9341]

It makes you wonder though. Did he turn it around or is it another scam?

[@Shiyounin]

They aren't 'turning their lives around'. They get caught and then go where the money is.

[@jeweltunstall7073]

@@chrisruskai9341 Again I love this! You’ve so sweet and short summed up my novelette!! Exactly it feels as if he may never be capable of truly being a permissive or trash his criminal minded justifications of being a predator even after himself being traumatized. Thank you I appreciate this well said comment!!!!

[@Austin_Bowers]

What an opening👏👏👏 Can't wait to hear more stories like this, thank you Brett!

[@Not-thatKaren]

Of all the interviews Lex has done (that I’ve watched) I remember this one more than any.

[@brettjohnsonshow]

Thank you for listening

[@TomRumbaugh]

I feel like I just heard the most persuasive psychopath on earth. It’s stunning how much I want to enjoy his shocking and terrifying stories told with such laughter.

[@JoeyVol]

Most psychopath's merely hide the fact that they are so; Therefore you have to study those in your life and especially public figures who "have you" under their guise.

[@pinkysidealmond2854]

100 💯

[@LetsGetSmarted]

most psychopaths are persuasive, they just don't let you in on the lie, so you assume they're normal.

[@bernardinelane1718]

Hard to believe. Thinking Bret’s acting skills were masking some truth in his story.

[@DrumL3000]

I think the mom is the worst.

[@odnilniloc]

Brett is an excellent story teller. Thoroughly enjoyed this episode. Thank you Lex and Brett for this fantastic episode.

[@ninajefferson4018]

What's wrong w you. This dude stole masses of money from individuals. Not corporations from regular people. You should hate him not praise him cause he paid for his crime in prison. He didn't pay anyone back! He's a piece of garbage who should be made to pay back that lady he defrauded with the elephant.

[@jimmicrackhead12]

He's lying

[@trevor4175]

​@@ninajefferson4018don't be mad at someone because they don't hate someone enough, that's a bad reason.

[@alejandroestevez876]

What a great episode 🙏🏻 A lot of lessons to be learnt from it. Thank you for sharing Lex!

[@bohemianlamb4309]

Hand's down the best conversation I have seen in a podcast. Much love to you both! Thank you for sharing.

[@josephmorgan2981]

This is the best episode you’ve seen Homie why?

[@bohemianlamb4309]

@@josephmorgan2981 That's a really hard one to justify given all the amazing people he has interviewed. I would say with a little more thought it feels the most relevant to current events. With all the lie's, scams, and world changing tech out there this episode gives many a glimpse of how it operates behind closed doors. Brett's honesty was refreshing.

[@astrladam4392]

This is a great interview and the fact that it is in all likelihood another act of social engineering makes it all the more interesting.

[@SilentShiba]

I was thinking about that too. This guy doesn't think anything like me, but why do I like him so much?!

[@bezzzbezzy473]

@@SilentShiba because he is a great con Artist

[@kurt6469]

Yeah, notice how he avoids answering any details and instead just sorta steam rolls over Lex. I wonder if even half his story is true.

[@selbstbestimmt]

The power of psychopaths.

[@halbrooks4654]

@@selbstbestimmt My sentiments exactly, Not much emotionally centered,( sympathy/ empathic) expression, with Brett. The dudes got an attitude, of not my fault, look at my bad upbringing. BS, He knew the difference between right and wrong, but chose to do wrong. I'm, not getting any real vibes of compassion or regret, from this predator,he was stealing vunerable ppls life savings. DISPICABLE

[@davidbarbour2368]

The famous charm of the sociopath is chillingly on display. Lovable, infectious laugh. The pain he caused is touched upon but eventually lost in the entertaining recounting of his adventures.

[@Whatintheworld259]

Yeah it’s worth seeing so we can recognise it. Sad for the victims loosing their savings

[@GenXGal]

Fascinating interview. Gonna look into Brett further. I don’t like the interviewer’s style but appreciate his effort and access to this type of insight.

[@brettjohnsonshow]

Thank you for listening. I appreciate it. Brett

[@BrainHealth-]

Brett you are a born teacher. You are not only smart, but compelling. Lex thanks for the long form dives you offer. Outstanding .

[@kenaaronbabbit9987]

Imagine what this guy has done that he's not telling.

[@alexacosta2140]

That’s a good point

[@justinesmith3498]

Probably next level degenerate sex and drugs.

[@chriss1672]

I’m sure there’s a few bodies he isn’t talking about

[@dibaz1]

Can you imagine what devastation he could do!

[@CCC0122]

Sometimes the attention one gets from telling a surreal, extremely intense true story, can trigger a person to continue with different stories that may be totally fraudulent. Amazingly enough, the man seems to have some serious things to feel guilt or shame for. These childhood stories can be true; if so, is it an excuse for some sociopathic tendencies but my attitude towards this , is at what point in your life do you stop making excuses and start building a new set of healthy memories. I wish him luck, And God Bless

[@timothyjones2143]

The more I watch Lex, the more I am liking him and getting hooked on his podcast. Used to be a JRE fan for years but I’ve switched to Lex, I trust him more and I think it’s a better program.

[@jhorsechief]

Lex challenges his guest on a human level that we can all relate to

[@rmdbourg]

Lex is light years more intelligent than Joe…and Joe isn’t a dummy

[@ericvoots]

Thats because Lex doesn't tell the same 10 anecdotes every episode

[@callancollins7708]

@@ericvoots or make every conversation about trans or the pandemic

[@stevrgrs]

As many people have stated prior, Lex is the intellectuals JRE :P

[@Mlaprades]

This is a fantastic interview.. It certainly not the only one. I'm glad I found this podcast.. thanks for your dedication and hard work

[@brettjohnsonshow]

Thank you for listening!

[@laurakosch]

@@brettjohnsonshow How do you feel about the comments that assess your personality? Especially those that remain skeptical… It must feel a bit irritating to be faced with people who are confident that they know the “real” Brett…

[@brettjohnsonshow]

@@laurakosch First, thank you for listening. I appreciate it. As far as the negative comments? Well, I cannot control those, nor would I want to. The positive response far outweighs the negative, so I'm pleased. That said, some of the negative comments do cause me to think if the person were watching the same interview as others

[@laurakosch]

@@brettjohnsonshow These comments mainly reveal the speakers’ own hearts. In our house, the one rule we have is no mind reading. We cannot know what is in someone else’s heart, or what is motivating them. To accuse someone in this way is arrogant and foolish.

[@brettjohnsonshow]

@@laurakosch Thank you. Truly

[@SkittleMom]

Fantastic story and lessons… Brett is Dave Ramsay’s voice twin. I kept hearing Dave talking about debt and income and getting rid of car payments while he talked. 😅

[@josephkraus]

💯

[@nicoleselsky7273]

When Lex said, “I always wear my heart on my sleeve. If I get hurt for it? That’s life” how sorrowful that we live in a world where some people that are so unconditionally full of love have to coexist with people that only know hate and dishonesty. Sadly, we can only hope that love overshadows the hate. Keep grinding Lex 🤟🏼

[@malikialgeriankabyleswag4200]

I don't agree with your dualism

[@nicoleselsky7273]

@@malikialgeriankabyleswag4200 I don’t even know what that means? I just meant like there is happiness and sadness, it sucks that really good people encounter the worst of the worst of other people sometimes. I don’t have to agree… since it’s also a personal view, I haven’t met too many good people in my life but that doesn’t mean I don’t know that good people are out there/exist

[@novictim]

Everyone is evil in the wrong circumstances. And the other way round. People that are unaware aren't aware of being unaware. Everyone thinks they are justified in their actions.

[@nicoleselsky7273]

@@novictim Oh I like this

[@malikialgeriankabyleswag4200]

@@nicoleselsky7273 I know I'm just saying sometimes when we get fed up of the bad things we like to escape to this very well defined world of good people here vs evil people there.. and then we get tricked into wars lol

[@jers132]

Love Brett's openness. Sharing history, no matter how challenging, helps so many!!

[@sepi372]

He lies that’s why it’s exciting. Just sounds like every other b.s. artist. Total garbage not a human being.

[@LoremLorem]

I think around 2:10, when opens up about lying, I first time felt love towards him. He is smart, he knows what he has done. If only all these smart griminals used their power to change the world to good. If anyone, I assume they know how to do it. Don't you? Peace and love man, not suffering.

[@NurseClaudia]

I listened to the whole thing! So fascinating!!!!! Thank you

[@antzrussell4404]

Lex in your opening commentaries exactly how u feel, your podcast is amazing and I hear it more and more everyday and I appreciate you for at least trying to get through to some, to create a better understanding for all of us thank you ❤️✌️🐜

[@rg10870]

This was incredible. As somebody who started his life off not as a choirboy much like Brett Johnson did. This podcast brought back a lot of memories of the old me. And he's absolutely right and I don't know if it's former criminals only that want to live their life in this fashion. But he is absolutely 1000% correct. It's all about how can I benefit somebody else. Service over self. Famous quote that help change my life in a very dark time was from Gandhi and he said "if you want to find yourself lose yourself in the service of others" that's probably a paraphrase and you're welcome to Google the exact quote. But it changed my life. Just like this man. Unfortunately I did not have to go through what he did to get myself on track. I did unfortunately have to deal with the Secret Service and I can say they were extremely professional and very good at what they did. But if anybody's reading this take my word for it and Brett Johnson's word for it and try your best to help others, make the world a better place to live in, open doors for old people when you're not having a good day. The getting is in the giving. Thank you for listening to my TED talk. Lol

[@lethalentertainment4728]

This is going to be a good one. Plus 3hrs. Love how you do longer content lex. Ok let's check this out!

[@jonathancunningham8377]

Lex you’ve quickly become one of my favorite channels. Love all the different aspects of life you touch on and for some reason it’s all topics I’m interested in. Hope you never quit!

[@williambock1821]

If you ever get to the point where you can’t afford TP, just take it from public rest rooms. You don’t really need to shop lift toilet paper.

[@andyb4863]

About 2 1/2 hours in I forgot I was even watching a Lex Fridman interview. Had a split second doing other things, I almost thought I was watching a movie.

[@Joelio8701]

This guy is like the Breaking Bad version of Dave Ramsey 🤣. Amazing story this should be a movie - It’s like Catch Me If You Can meets Shawshank Redemption meets Breaking Bad meets Wolf Of Wall St

[@landenx]

😂😂 literally same voice

[@Jaspermoises1835]

Holy crap! I thought the EXACT SAME THING!! 🤣

[@barryroodhuizen2365]

😂😂

[@ericwilson2632]

Dam....

[@jacobdorph816]

Perhaps Hollywood screenwriter will pick upp om this imterview and present new movie idea, "The Social Engineer"

[@just.play1ng]

One of the best interviews to date. We need more of these kind of guests.

[@brettjohnsonshow]

Thank you so much for listening. I appreciate it

[@brettbennett-kp7mq]

This mans truth and Story, must be made in to a movie ! Its complete with such honesty, and a youthful, and heartbreaking love story ! Its actually such a beautiful love story this is the second time ive listened to this complete episode ! I can hear his heart continue to break as he tells the story !

[@ladanmanavi]

This almost 4 hours, but I can't stop watching. What an fantastic interview.

[@surfingtothestars]

now you see how he could easily manipulate and scam people lol

[@dongfap]

This guy has lived an insane life. Thanks for the honesty Brett.

[@rootbeer4888]

He prolly sugar coated and left plenty out he is a manipulator. I will give him the benefit of the doubt but lets be real here.

[@tiemen88]

I think he is not honest. You might be tricked here.

[@rootbeer4888]

Sorry but you realise you are the type he would have con'd right lol

[@onewiththeragingwind6730]

@@rootbeer4888 he knows his shit w scams but i dont believe much about his story

[@taintbrush237]

As someone who grew up with a pathological liar father, I urge you to be on the side of caution when believing anything this guy says. Stay safe

[@Phreakazoid_]

Brett has such an interesting story man. A good example of how all of us can turn things around in a positive way, no matter what

[@jaymanishere13]

He still stole many people’s retirement funds and permanently ruined their lives

[@michelemurphy3541]

Lex, is was a fantastic interview bud. Nice job. Super proud of you. You are truly a delight and I love you so much.

[@XLpacman805]

This is actually a really good PSA for cybersecurity.

[@Mercury6_]

Lex this is upper level conversation. You’re a legend for this one. So good

[@PeterPaijuk]

I hadn’t even gotten to what he’s done when I came up with that conclusion but I’m beyond re affirmed now. This man is insane and should not be around people because he’s most definitely a danger to others! In more then one way may I add

[@sibyl999]

I have watched this interview, in an enthralled state about four times. I love Brett and this talk. Yet I question why is this talk promoted to such a degree that more and more millions of humans have now listened to it? I have already heard it and loved it and Brett, bien sûr. Why is this talk being promoted so much by the AI algorithms? Why does it want me to watch it again and again? Don't get me wrong I love Brett. Many hearts I send to Brett and Denise.

[@fishingbob8374]

Lex really shedding a light on a lot of the dark corners of our society. Great work here.

[@Mike-bs5pi]

Being a "very good social engineer", as he says, in conjunction with what he's known for and what he brags about, the smart move would be to disbelieve everything he says. Bringing my own experience with social engineers/manipulators into focus, my sensors go off when he talks. What makes this most interesting, and lends to his ability to social engineer, he even explains how he's engineering us, the audience, as he does so @ 44:50

[@sacredflowspace]

Very interesting imma have to go back n check it….

[@nou6587]

He still doesn't care. Just less risk and maybe more beneficial to be "legit" at this point in his life.

[@adamlane6453]

Reminds me if that scene from A Scanner Darkly... "See, the guy never really posed as any of it. He only posed as a worldfamous imposter. Turns out he just pushed a broom at Disneyland, until he read about this actual world-famous imposter, and he thought, I can pose as all those things, then he thought, hell, I'll just pose as an imposter. Save a lot of time, a lot easier. Made almost as much money as the real imposter with books and movie rights."

[@chadeddy5042]

He's a POS, still full of it. Just yuck!

[@ReedoAce]

@@chadeddy5042 he’s definitely 2 faced going against his own crew. Trust no one

[@migpinx]

An interview with his mother would be even better.

[@charleyarchuleta4932]

Great show Lex. I understand both sides of issues with crime n redemption. No judgement. Im glad that he’s a solid human being. Redemption and purpose are essential for those who desire change.

[@Ty-ri7dy]

God, this guy really knows what he's talking about. He's been in this for a LONG time and has a wealth of knowledge about how this kind of crime works. Such a mind. It irritates me to think that there are some really smart people like him all over the world that haven't been able to capitalize on it for something good.

[@Ty-ri7dy]

@@smokedbeefandcheese4144 No, banks and corporations, as much as we might not like them, can be victims. Stop thinking so black & white. Criminals delude themselves when they believe things like 'Oh, it's okay because that company has a lot of money and insurance to protect themselves from someone like lil' ole me stealing from them!' Having to play by fair regulatory rules is a FAR CRY from being manipulated and stolen from, as is the case with cuber criminals like him.

[@kenaaronbabbit9987]

Most people with this type of spirit will never be supported or embraced by society vaulting them to redirect energy from more productive endeavors

[@JenEpervary]

This might be one of my favourite interviews to date. Not only is Brett an incredible story teller (and has an incredible story) but I feel, it is only on the Lex Fridman podcast that a conversation can hold the vulnerability and complexity of the human condition. I am always so appreciative of the way Lex interviews with heart, with holding that space for the guest to speak their truth. That silent support, that space leaves so much room for emotion and beauty. Thank you for creating that space Lex. Thank you Brett for your truth.

[@JoseMartinez-zh1tk]

Good point and well said.

[@ginalacombe633]

It took three different sittings to watch this interview. Damn that honest eight. I took so much away from both of you. Lex, you're just so chill. You love love. Awe, be still my heart. Brett, you ooze charisma. A paradox INDEED. Aside from the criminal man, when you spoke of never loving anything more than the addiction. How one cheats themself of real human connection to another. FUCKING OUCH. I'm still choking back tears, but for the first time maybe ever, I'm ready to face me. Funny were a person gets a pearl. I'm a FUCKING liar. It's exhausting. Thank You. I hope for you PEACE & LOVE & LIGHT

[@msblanqui1]

Wow...your reaction is quite interesting, truly. Thx for sharing

[@TriLLioNdoLLaCaSh]

Listened to the whole 4 hours while doordashing…I think I’m obligated to subscribe now…

[@douglasbennett1768]

As it happens, I watched the interview with Chris Tarbell then this one. Chris mentioned that he didn't have any anger towards the people he took down, but that Brett really pissed him off. It would be a very interesting show to see Lex moderate a back-and-forth style Q&A between Chris and Brett. I'm sure they would venture into some engaging technical areas, but the conversation around actions and their consequences would be intriguing. This idea would probably be something Lex could do with many of his guests since he talks with such wide ranging subjects. His calm and deliberate demeanor would most definitely produce some great conversations.

[@Mdautkreix]

Would love this.

[@sheenatiller3502]

🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉 I’d like to see that.

[@tylermiller8142]

I could see how Brett would piss him off 😂😂 that’s a good idea though I would watch

[@RichardCranium321]

brett > chris

[@douglasbennett1768]

@@RichardCranium321 Maybe... Brett has an amazing ability to understand systems and , I'd say, to instinctively identify vulnerabilities. Chris is a protector with an ambush predator's patience. He'll poke and prod and eventually find that one thing that let's him get his man. Both men have genuine skills and those skills come with upsides and downsides for those around them depending on how they're utilized. They have different moral compasses. That's why I think it would make for a good talk, as long as there's a moderator who can keep them on track and away from each other's throats. I see a possibility of genuine hostility developing in the absence of third party guidance.

[@treader1974]

at first glance, i passed over Lex multiple times. But man, he has me hooked. Mindful, interesting, and inquisitive.

[@joeboygypsy]

One of the most listenable podcasts I’ve ever witnessed

[@brettjohnsonshow]

Thank you for listening. I appreciate it

[@joeboygypsy]

@@brettjohnsonshow hope you’re doing good.

[@brettjohnsonshow]

@@joeboygypsy I am. Thank you. Being on the Good Guy side of things is so much better. I'm blessed and I'm grateful. Hope all is well your way.

[@ASTERisk44946]

Ex bh here just wanted to say that this man had empathy when young even if he doesnt know it but he didnt have sympathy heres why: Empathy is the ability to understand and share the feelings of another person. Sympathy on the other hand is the feeling of sorrow or pity for someone else's misfortune. which according to his own explanation of his prior feelings i belive this was a better way of describing what he was missing when he was younger

[@quuqeemonster]

2:13:50 "Crime is an addiction......" This answers a question I needed answered. Super great conversation.

[@ironassbrown]

I gotta say Brett makes me a bit uncomfortable, he reminds me in ways of the other psychopaths that I have met in my life. It's hard for me not to imagine him as a manipulator and dangerous individual. I see every indication that it is still a fundamental piece of his personality, it seems to me that you would really be relying on Brett to decide not to take advantage of you if you were to lower your guard around him or were not sufficiently guarded from him. I would think that about all it would take would be for him to be feeling a bit lazy, or bored for him to turn to manipulations that could have negative consequences for his targets, mentally or otherwise. I see in him a kind of insecure confidence that to me appears like coping with vast insecurity, but is presented as joy and strength and secret celebration of the domination of others, and the superiority of duping and harming others without them understanding what is happening. This kind of charm that everyone in the comments is responding to so well is nothing new, this is what a charismatic psychopath is like. Now imagine yourself under their spell and you decide that you want to trust them wholeheartedly, big mistake, big mistake. This isn't about shaming Brett, this is about how easily most of us are guided away from good judgement. I don't think you can trust Brett anymore than you can trust a rattlesnake loose on a bus, you know maybe the snake just wants to curl into the corner and be left alone, are you going to put your trust in that when your getting on that bus, the question is are you still going to get on that bus? You say no, but if the snake was as persuasive as Brett I think a lot of these people in the comments would be overjoyed to sit on the bus with the charismatic rattlesnake.

[@MrRedstonefreedom]

Of course he hasn't completely changed, he was nearly pure evil, he's not going to suddenly become reformed even if he truly genuine wants to, which is impossible to verify. Your suspicions or hesitation are completely sound. Reputation & record matters for a reason. And it *really* matters. I would never trust this kind of person. Save your trust for people who have earned it.

[@bowlofsoup12]

And i bet you like to listen to yourself speak

[@nickpearce2968]

Good assessment. Given the way he was raised, it's not hard to see why he is this way.

[@bookofbrah]

​@@bowlofsoup12 stop crying if you aren't able to read more than 6 words its because your attention span is fucked up from watching all these tictocs and reels - its your problem :D

[@sonnylambert4893]

“Takes one to know one”

[@FerrelFrequency]

You just can’t help but LOVE this guy. Anything he talks about is interesting, and the way that he talks about ANYthing makes you interested.

[@nickpearce2968]

True and you just discovered how easily you could fall victim to a psychopath like him. Look past the charm.

[@BeauSearow]

You love that he destroyed innocent people's lives?

[@jbshark5941]

That was the most interesting,engaging guest you have ever had on your show. Well done lex.

[@amalialujan6394]

I hate, love, admire and was sorry for this guy during this interview. He is not one person he is 100!!! Great interview!!!

[@drystack86]

This guy is America!

[@jeffhutchinson4748]

@@tatertot4810 I am also extremely surprised that every single comment has been the opposite.. I’m midway through.. thinking ‘How could there not be ANY comments like yours here.. at all? 🤔 Are they all afraid of being hacked or something? Lol.. but really though? Obviously I’m going to watch all of it and see if it somehow says something.. anything, that would cause a person to not at least say what you’re saying. EVERY single comment I’ve read here has forgiven him somehow.. I’m all for forgiving people. I get it, he now helps catch cyber criminals. That’s so awesome. Is that why no one is AT ALL saying what you are saying? This is VERY interesting….

[@Christian-ry3ol]

I was planning on watching 5-10 mins jjsut to see what this guy was about. and i stayed the whole fucking show. Amazin conversation. i'll be definetely following brett's podcast

[@egoten5578]

I did the exact same thing! Lol

[@einnor165]

100% same here

[@danstennis1817]

What a compelling interview! I really enjoyed it.

[@Internaut787]

Fascinating interview, his life can be made into a TV series or a movie.

[@theimaginactionfaction4707]

Lex, you’re giving him a little too much credit in assuming the man was empathizing with his victims. Empathy means you can actually FEEL the pain of the other person to some extent, because to really imagine what they are feeling or going through you must actually feel it somewhat. Otherwise you just have an academic understanding of what will be motivating them and what will get you the response you want. That is not empathy. You don’t need to have empathy to understand academically what is going on in that person’s head if you have learned the way people work. So you can understand what us important to the victim and know how to manipulate them without actually having empathy for them. If he had empathy he would have cared about the victim, but then decided he cared about himself more and was willing to hurt them. Or even he might take some twisted pleasure out of the pain he was inflicting, even though he was empathizing, which means he would hurt himself while hurting them, but he would like it for whatever reason, whether he thought he deserved it or what. But empathy is different from what he describes when explaining how he was good at social engineering even though he didn’t care about his victims. It is very possible that he did have empathy and did care about the victims, but that narrative would continue to cause him pain if he didn’t convince himself that the reality was that he didn’t care about them, and so he could be lying about not having empathy to avoid causing himself pain every time he thinks about it. Great show though, by the way. I’m still watching it even though I really need to be getting work done. I just can’t turn this guy off. This checks all the boxes for human interest and what makes a great, interesting story from which we can glean some insight and additional understanding about ourselves, maybe even learning some really valuable lessons by the end of it all. This has my attention more than anything I’ve watched in a long time. Well done, sir. Rock on!

[@js7018]

This is one of the very few if not only 4 hour interview i can watch in one sitting; and even come back to and revisit, and still not be bored. Any other interviews from this guy?

[@kerirae4777]

The scariest part- his mother was a NURSE!!😮 Frickin SCARY!!

[@nicholasward6182]

thank you lex... your long form podcasts just helped me through a dark time...on the other side of that. thanks man

[@anmekas]

Thank You Lex ! These Podcast have really been a beacon of hope for me ! Thank for doing you and being you !

[@bobbybrown5217]

💯✌️

[@jaysonx5576]

Lex, you are the reincarnation of Rod Serling. My favorite screenwriter. Your curiosity and empathy for the human condition is as honest and raw as it gets. Thank you for your deep dives into the human mind. Respect.

[@deputydang8291]

Hell nah. Look I like Lex alright but dont do that to rod serling

[@hifilofiwifi]

A very fitting observation and top tier compliment.

[@Sharkdog11b]

Lex that intro was beautiful that’s the perfect way to explain how we should all treat people and ourselves. I appreciate you and your heart felt way of thinking. You use not your heart and brain not just the brain like so many others