Did Pirates Really Sing Sea Shanties? It’s Complicated

[@EphemeralTao]

The tunes for a lot of these shanties very likely changed over time and between ship crews as well. The fact that very few of them were written down before the 19th century means a lot of the original tunes were lost; and it's clear that some of the writers set them to common Irish, English, and Scottish folk melodies by the time they were written down.

[@hultonclint]

They weren't written down before the 19th century because they didn't exist before the 19th century. The nature of the genre is such that you didn't take lyrics and apply a tune to it. Rather, the tunes and choruses were there and you elaborate words upon them. The tunes needed to be relatively stable since they were the main thing you were remembering, as a group, to function, whereas lyrics are what were varied.

[@Boomstickfan495]

Thats often why modern shanty singers dont care often too much about "original composition" - because often we don't even know the original one, or if the song itself was cobbled together overtime. So they elect to take about as much liberty with their pieces as the original singers would have.

[@sirBrouwer]

@@hultonclint they did exist. there are old documents within the Archive of the Dutch province of Zeeland where a few where mentioned. the thing is between a santy or just any other everyday (non religious) song there was not really a difference. unless a song was tied to a location. or other important information like there was a song they always sung around the Danish coast near Copenhagen. mainly to help navigating that area. If the song was sung with the correct speed that bolder in the water you sang about should be to starboard of the ship.

[@hultonclint]

@@sirBrouwer What shanties were mentioned in this Archive? It's a particular genre of song. It's not just any song anywhere anytime sung on water. If you want to know more about the genre and it's characteristics, see here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i4XPfGyGgs6aac0

[@sirBrouwer]

@@hultonclint shanties or also known as sailor songs where quite often used for the same purpose as mentioned in this very video. like: Den Deansh weater or. Bestevaer de Ruijter Piet Hein en den Zilver vloot. and they were used for both keeping in a cadans but also pride when needed.

[@samwill7259]

Human beings abhor a vacuum of silence How wonderful is it that our bodies were given the ability to make music wherever we go?

[@DFX2KX]

"humans abhor a vacuum of silence" Meanwhile my right ear: EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[@lrfcowper]

Amusing how many of those 7 billion+ sea shanty TikToks are to one particular song -- the Sea Shanty Medley by the country a cappella group Home Free that they produced on a whim during lockdown.

[@loam6740]

7 billion views not independent videos

[@lrfcowper]

@@loam6740 Apologies. I misspoke (-typed)?

[@piplupcola]

Actually it started with Wellerman which got popular because of a video The Longest John's made of them singing it while playing Sea of Theives

[@AstraA000]

@@piplupcola lol I thought it got popular because of wellerman and Scottish singer Nathan Evans oops I know nothing I feel kinda dumb now haha

[@aquaticangel3380]

@@AstraA000 I know this comment is quite old, but you’re not entirely wrong! it got popular at first thought the longest johns, then after being shared around a bit nathan evans released his version, which then went viral and made the song even more popular. so in short, tlj did it first and played a crucial role, but nathan evans was what really made it blow up

[@hankrearden20]

One day in San Francisco, I was touring the Maritime Museum, going from ship to ship. In my wanderings I came across some of the employees of the Museum and a group of teenage volunteers working a capstan lifting a cargo net out of the hold. Curious about how an old manual capstan felt, I asked if I could join in. To which they said, sure. While I was winding the capstan with the volunteers, one of the employees, all tattoos and piercings, was coiling the cable coming off the capstan into a nice tight coil, all the time singing a song, of all things, about working a capstan. I wished I had asked him to teach me that song. But I never did.

[@hultonclint]

Just tell us the chorus of the song or some fragment of lyrics and we can probably remember it for you.

[@gourdguru]

@@hultonclint this. i've been obsessed with sea shanties and irish folk/rebel music for far longer than the shanty meme was a thing. give us a few bars we can probly pin it down for you. also search for capstan shanties, since that's a specific category of shanties that's cadence was designed for the job, and if it makes mention of capstan work a main theme then chances are it'll be on the list. of the top o my head 'my thinking of "randy dandy o", a capstan shanty that in part goes: Man the stout caps'n an' heave with a will Way, hay, roll an' go Soon we'll be drivin' her 'way down the hill To be rollicking randy dandy-O Heave a pawl, o heave away Way, hay, roll an' go The anchor's on board an' the cable's all stored To be rollicking randy dandy-O

[@SiqueScarface]

Might it have been ""Call all hands to man the capstan"?

[@hankrearden20]

I wished I could remember any of the lyrics. It was both enthralling and yet ephemeral at the same time. It was quite impressive and yet all too brief. And remember, I was moving in a circle straining at the bars while he sang.

[@hankrearden20]

@@SiqueScarface After looking up the lyrics, sadly I'd have to say no. No mention of England in his song.

[@katebowers8107]

Always love Joel’s delivery!

[@cocoa_kiss]

The moment the shanty was define as a way of spreading news and stories I couldn't stop comparing it to the folkloric Puerto Rican music of plena. It is known as the "newspaper of the people", hand drums are the main instruments, it always uses antiphony, and to this day is used in picketing.

[@thatguyinaband6341]

for real right!? Afro Caribbean culture is so under rated! ever heard Changui!? it's a badass afro cuban form of music recently converted to rock by this crazy Miami Cuban kzbin.info/www/bejne/p4rLppiGf6xpd8U haha hit CC for english subs if you need, and have a wonderful day!

[@Beryllahawk]

Very well done! Fascinating to understand the literal rhythms of a sailor's work because of songs. I feel like most of us have plain forgotten what "sailing a ship" used to mean. It would never have occurred to me before this to consider the importance of synchrony in the tasks, because frankly I haven't any grasp of the scale of the vessels of that time. At best I vaguely know how to row a very tiny boat, personally (I grew up in the desert) and even then I never quite got the hang of the necessary sync for THAT. Dozens of men trying to do something not only physically taxing but requiring specific unified efforts? In a roaring storm on a tossing ship? With this - now that takes on a much different look in my imagination. Modern vessels that can be run by one or two guys is just NOT the same, but I don't think that really hit me until now.

[@danielland3767]

The cool part about this is, during my time in the Army (98-06) we would call cadence to synchronized our strides during company runs. To get 50 to 75+ people with various lengths of strides was a task that only a cadence can do. At one unit in Korea (2002) we commonly took the popular hip hop or rap song that could be a cadence and did just that. So even in using popular music we kept in sync, when we had to loop ourselves in a circle to wait for stragglers we commonly had a impromptu dance circle where we could stay in step, while moving our torso & arms in any manner till we started to run straight ahead again. This process also worked when we needed to slow the run down for either the slower runners or to catch our breath. On a marching rhythm the speed of the cadence was more of a rhythmic effect, like reading a poem if you will. Our telling a story that had to be repeated to move the song along. Both a running candace & marching cadence could be changed to various degrees and alibis but seeing this as the orgin of military cadences is wonderfully cool to see now

[@Beryllahawk]

@@danielland3767 That is amazing!

[@danielland3767]

@@Beryllahawk right! What's more amazing to me is the orgin of the cadence & where it came from. Most ancient civilizations had only a Navy and Army, with I'm sure logically they used the Navy to get the Army to various locations accessible or moved faster via water. So it makes sense now that a sea shanty would make itself into a cadence when you look at how ancient militaries were designed.

[@hultonclint]

@@danielland3767 It's nothing to do with ancient militaries. African Americans introduced the singing method both to American merchant vessels (chanties were not a Navy thing) and the American Army. The resemblance--along with the easy ability to apply hip hop bars to cadence--is because all originate from the African American forms that developed in the 19th century.

[@danielland3767]

@@hultonclint of course, I'm not denying that, they how that in the vide8and mentioned the hip hop influence as well

[@spennyb89]

Love the violin at the end!

[@flamencoprof]

You might like Carolina Chocolate Drops: Snowden's Jig kzbin.info/www/bejne/pJ3MmoV6oqeVe7M

[@butwhytho4858]

My grandfather wasn’t a pirate, but he did serve in WWII with the Navy. Growing up he taught me a ton of songs and made up catchy lyrics for anything. Even making his famous caramel popcorn had a song while he stirred. He wasn’t a softie, but even a big rough n’ tough ol’ sailor can feel approachable and likable when everything he did had a tune and a dance.

[@deborahberger5816]

My own Dad and as in the army during WWII. His Navy veteran friends sang, but he never shared them with me. I'd love to know some your grandfather's songs. I have a degree in folklore (please don't laugh!), and I'd love to add them to me collection.

[@butwhytho4858]

@@deborahberger5816 oh sharing that would just make my day hahah It doesn’t have nearly the same affect as hearing the tune with it, but this was the popcorn song he must have come up with himself because I can’t seem to find anything on it online: “Here he comes, the popcorn man. Pops them like no one can. Got five cents in your hand. Give it to the popcorn man. ~ Hear it Pop.. to the sky. They sing this lullaby. It’s good for boys, it’s good for men, makes old maids like girls again! Give it tooo the popcorn man.” This was a song he started on the ship and shared with the other guys. It doesn’t have the ominous tone most shanties had/are known for, but this was the one I liked most as a kid because it made us all so happy. He later became a father of 10. All 10 children have college degrees (4 are specialized medical Dr.S!) He opened a five & dime store, and a burger/ice cream business. He was a city councilman, never having lost an election. He stopped running when he said politics was too corrupt even at a small level. At the age of 43 his wife gave in to Alzheimer’s and could no longer recognize him, speak, or walk, but he still went to feed her every day for the rest of her life; 20+ years. Finally, on his 10th heart attack, he passed away. The last thing he said was “those clouds look like popcorn… I’m coming to meet ya Mama” (he referred to his wife as Mama). On a side note, my other grandfather was Air Force and they didn’t have songs such as these. At least not where he was. Again thnx for asking as it made my day, and I hope your collection grows! Ps: If you come across these lyrics elsewhere, plz come let me know! I don’t want to give misinformation if the song wasn’t his to lay claim to! Also my apologies for rambling on on KZbin comments 😆 I figured if you were making a collection, some back story might be fun. 😊

[@jujutrini8412]

@@butwhytho4858 I think this might be the most endearing KZbin comment I have ever seen. I love your obvious affection for your dear departed grandfather. It erred me up no end.

[@byronofrothdale]

Not surprising at all. Shanties are to the navy as march songs to the army. Think for example "Toque a degüello", the Spanish song for no mercy. The horns evolved from an Arabic melody.

[@grizzthegreen4500]

But i do appreciate how homie is dressed like Frederick Douglass

[@patrickblanchette4337]

Thank you for explaining the backstory of a beloved musical tradition.

[@woodencoyote4372]

Stevenson invented the chorus of "Dead Man's Chest" to make his pirates sound more menancing, but in the book the song that is actually mentioned or sung the most is "Lillibullero", an 1688 march that had made it's into popular culture by the time the book takes place.

[@Zeyev]

Great episode. 1) I hope someone else has mentioned the pronunciation of the verb "chanter" - the "r" is silent and the final syllable is pronounced like the "a" in "page." 2) Speaking of the crossover between African-American and European-American chants - someone else has already noted what my father told me. When I was in the US Army we sometimes chanted while marching; in my father's day only the African-American troops did that. He was a bit surprised that the tradition had become mainstream.

[@medealkemy]

The final syllable is more of an -ey sound with the least emphasis possible on the -y sound, or none at all. Smiling mouth, teeth closed to each other.

[@Zeyev]

@@medealkemy Merci. Je l'avais simplifié.

[@marthaevans8270]

My mother, a Pennsylvania music educator in the 1940/50s, added the Burl Ives records and shanty songs to her curriculum. Ives was a great popularizer! She often taught me those songs at home. I still have the song book.

[@butwhytho4858]

This made my heart smile. My tough ex sailor (Navy) grandfather taught me so many songs they would sing on WWII. Our large family still sings these shanty style songs. It’s a bitter sweet memory huh? Lol

[@ginnyjollykidd]

The _Wellerman_ song you played gives an easy and enduring way to remember a contract. A conscripted crewman knows the name of the ship they'll meet, what they expect to take from her, and the conditions upon which their contract will end. All in the chorus: Soon may the _Wellerman_ come To bring us sugar and tea and rum. One day when the toungin' is done, We'll take our leave and go. The song is a whaling song, and the _Wellerman_ might be a supply ship. As I've seen on other videos, "tonguing" might be the slaughter of caught whales, and that takes a lot of work from a lot of people. But the crewmen know that their contract is finished when that job is finished. And maybe the _Wellerman_ regularly supplies whaling ships. Something to look forward to.

[@EphemeralTao]

_The Wellerman_ is a New Zealand sea ballad sung mainly by whaling ships from that region. The "Wellerman"" did indeed refer to a supply ship, specifically the ships of the Weller Brothers supply company out of New Zealand.

[@hultonclint]

@@EphemeralTao It's a song that was developed by New Zealand folk scene musicians in the late 1960s/early seventies. It is written to evoke ideas about history, rather than being a song of historical whalers.

[@ginnyjollykidd]

How refreshing to know!

[@asterismos5451]

I heard this song was written about the system where people employed by particular companies were paid in credits for food and clothing and such that they could only spend in the company's overinflated stores. So the Wellerman in this case is the supply ship that they'd have to buy from and they're mad about this being the only option. This sort of payment was fairly common certainly in trades in the mid 1900s I think but I've no idea how common it was in the time of whaling. It sounds like it happened though. This wouldn't then be a pirate song at all but a working class whaler's song, protesting the injustice of their pay. It's also possible they were paid some monetary wage as well (discounted to account for the credits they were given), idk.

[@hultonclint]

@@asterismos5451 As I was saying above, it is primarily (if not wholly) a composition that was created by folk scene musicians in the late 1960s/early 1970s. Do you know what I mean by "folk scene"? Think those gal and guys of the Boomer generation who were in coffee shops etc. with their acoustic guitars, longing for simpler times while creating community. At the time in New Zealand, there were very few "traditional" (that's to say, older, historical) songs that felt definitely "New Zealand." A cohort of musicians at that time set upon trying to carve out a repertoire of "folk" songs that could feel like "New Zealand" songs, and to that end released an album and published song books to aid in the development of such a nationalistic Kiwi scene. "Wellerman" was one of those songs, created from reading books on NZ history and inserting a lot of references that would "feel" old. (Though to people familiar with the actual old songs of the nineteenth century, the writing doesn't feel old-we can tell it is out of step with the character of old songs.) You can hear the first recording of 'Wellerman" here, and you'll notice that the melody is completely different from what people are singing now. kzbin.info/www/bejne/l6KpfqCBjbSre5Y That's because there was no melody, because no one actually heard this unknown song before! This musician made up a melody, then another made up a different melody and wrote the music in a publication later. The musician here, Tommy Wood, is on record recently saying that he found a *poem* in a book that was the basis for constructing the song, which he brought to Neil Colquhoun (chief architect of the NZ folk song movement) and they developed the song together. This is damning for Colquhoun, who in his song book of the 1970s claimed to have "collected" the song from a certain persona, like an old man in the countryside who remembered the song! In the early 2000s, the website for the New Zealand folk song society took it at face value that Colquhoun had "collected" the song from the mysterious traditional singer, and published a speculation of where that supposed person had learned it from and how old it must be-all with no evidence. As happens on the internet, that "information" was reproduced elsewhere on the internet and, when the TikTok Wellerman craze happened, all the news outlets, etc. just repeated that misinformation-from which place it reached your ears.

[@SiqueScarface]

When I was a child (which is now many decades ago), my parents had a record with shanties and a narrator, who explained the story of the shanties. So I recognize many of the facts you were collecting for this video. There were examples of work songs on the record (One that also was named Haul the Bowline, but with another melody), of songs to sing along during free time (Rolling home), and also songs from slaves (Oh, the bully boat is coming).

[@maureenwagg5305]

Most shanties were sung on fishing and working (cargo etc.) ships to help the day go better. It was that era's Spotify or radio.

[@ahwhite2022]

I don't claim to be a folklorist, but I do thing you missed a key cultural / situational bridge connecting those older work songs and the modern pop music examples - military marching cadences.

[@CannonKnight]

I'm actually shocked military cadence songs weren't mentioned as modern-day sea shanties. Which sounds more like a sea shanty: soldiers repeating the lyrics of the marching song of a drill sergeant or "Come and Get Your Love" from Redbone?

[@DFX2KX]

I suspect that was avoided in part for algorithmic reasons. That and those who are not in the military or know servicemembers wouldn't be able to relate to them. Pirates and their songs got a lot more media attention. For those passing by, who look up cadences: You'll notice slight pacing differences between nations which reflects different marching styles. And there will be broadly two 'speeds' one for marching, and 'double-time' which is a brisk jog without being a sprint. The music in the latter case ensures that you remember to actually breathe as well as distracting you from the pain. Even a very unfit individual can jog at this pace for several minutes continuously if they're motivated and/or distracted from the discomfort well enough. Someone like myself (who lost 150 pounds walking and jogging) can run like this for a over a mile handily. Someone who's in better shape than I can do this for 20 miles if they have to. A *lot* of 'workout'/dance type music does have a rhythm that lines up well with a proper brisk walk or double-time pace as well! Eye of the Tiger comes to mind, which is fitting.

[@Dunkskins]

Guess I'm definitely a Pirate from the beginning of the millennium. Love the videos as always Joel, keep em coming.

[@mrs.g.9816]

I found this segment of "Rogue History" especially fascinating. Years ago, I bought an LP, "National Geographic's Songs and Sounds of the Sea", a great introduction to sea chanteys. I noticed the antiphony ("call and response") aspects of the work songs. Thanks for pointing out the African influence to this music!

[@Imperiused]

Insightful episode!

[@markrushton5108]

I was a Track Maintenance guy on the Railway, in Sections and Gangs. We would often use Chants and Ditties to Time ourselves in Rythym. It was important to work together in time. It was the job of the Singer to lead. A Good Singer was invaluable.

[@mildsoup8978]

90s music slaps whatever century

[@grizzthegreen4500]

It makes sense... 🤔 kinda how the enslaved Africans would sing negro spirituals (antiphony) while being forced into slave labor. Or even chain gangs singing on the chain line, or even soldiers cadence.

[@UrialTheDarkOne]

And it all comes from very early Jewish liturgy

[@mustaphagreenberg6666]

@@UrialTheDarkOneזה לא נכון היה לאפריקנים מסורת שלהם

[@lincolndutcher4823]

I enjoy this series even if the pronunciation of words like haulyard and bowline quite lubbarly

[@ericreativecuts]

Also chanter is pronounced shawntay not chanterre

[@acenoir9923]

I really do love all the pirate videos 🖤🏴‍☠️🖤

[@widmawod]

3:37 It's amazing how much this resembles Irish Sean-Nós singing

[@hultonclint]

Well, the singer was Irish and sang Irish music, and it's not a sea chanty example, so... Irish person singing a ballad, with no rhythm, will sound like sean-nós :)

[@FranzBiscuit]

Naturally, all of this music is primarily based on Britonic/Gaelic traditions.

[@hultonclint]

@@FranzBiscuit What do you mean by "all this music"? All *what* music? 19th century sailors adored polka and other accordion music -Germanic/Czech stuff, for instance. By the 1840s, American minstrel music (the kind performed in blackface) was probably the most popular music amongst sailors (as it was among the working class all over the place). As I mentioned, the song noted in the foregoing comment is an English *ballad* which is a particular genre of song (i.e. among many). Shanties are quite another genre of music, based in African-American tradition.

[@mollymcbutthurt]

@@hultonclint provide evidence that sea shanties were “African-American” you can’t.

[@LeBasfondMusic]

Pirates kidnapping musicians to act as entertainment was not the twist I was expecting 😂🤣

[@Maybachdemon]

puts a whole new twist on "pirating music"

[@KC-gy5xw]

I know that my (Jamaican) father told me about the 'sankies' they sang when cutting cane, "Hill and gully ride-oh, HILL and gully" - I'm sure there are many more. So those songs lasted until the early-mid 20th century, he was used to them and they followed the carribean workers who went to USA in the 50's following the crops around.

[@hultonclint]

Hill and gully, Massa Ram Goat, ... those are work songs, especially for digging... "Sankies" are hymns -- The hymn-book was written by Mr. Sankey.

[@1989Azrael]

For anybody interested, bands like "The Irish Rovers" or "The Jolly Rogers" also have quite some original shanties in their albums.

[@yamanuhem.netjer3165]

A lovely presentation, I might add there are similar practices among people working in situations of mining or hauling. The ancient Egyptians likely had some form of song or chanting to keep time, their decendants working as laborers to excavate areas from the sand or Rubble often utilize song and chant as well.

[@thistle9080]

I love this! Keep them coming! Yo Ho Ho and a bottle of Rum!!

[@cadillacdeville5828]

Thank-you as always

[@smilodnfatalis55]

Was not expecting DJ Kool to be referenced at the end but there he was 😂

[@somecuriosities]

Yarr! This be a mighty interesting video!

[@jayrey5390]

Great, thank you for a great video! And a lovely little fiddle to see us off

[@George_Washington185]

Dude thank you so much for the knowledge an insightful explanation I truly appreciate this topic. My four fathers were ship merchants from Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 an settled in Belize 🇧🇿

[@yseson_]

So Sea Shanty’s we’re basically coding and algorithms to make make human labor more efficient. Makes sense music was often used to organize military actions throughout human history

[@murkyseb]

That was really interesting, great work

[@bawintermage8351]

Best History Teacher Ever!

[@evmarekaj]

Didn't know PBS still existed

[@AuntieDawnsKitchen]

Sea shanties were favorites at Ren Faire, where historical accuracy matters naught but fun much

[@UrialTheDarkOne]

We are also fans of the shanty in the SCA where historical accuracy is paramount... we just sing the songs that actually came from the 15/1600's

[@TheStandardBearer]

Excellent educational video, thank you. Also, The Straw Hats love singing Bink's Sake.

[@glitchlife4639]

Right, you are awesome. Thank you@!

[@insulaarachnid]

This was really interesting, thank you.

[@sarahwatts7152]

oooo now I have fun music in my head!

[@pieterboelen2862]

Wellerman isn't a shanty. It's a ballad.

[@prokesuk]

Renaldo And The Loaf do a wonderful version of Haul On The Bowline.

[@ferretyluv]

I don’t think “call and response” is unique to Africa. It’s basic music found all over the world.

[@hultonclint]

No one said it was unique to Africa.

[@ferretyluv]

@@hultonclint He did, as if the only way shanties have a call and response system would be because they got it from Africans. Antiphony is part of Catholic services.

[@hultonclint]

@@ferretyluv No, he said "The musical call and response form found in both shanties and African work songs is called antiphony." That is not saying call and response is unique to Africa. Your additional comment of "as if the only way..." is something you're projecting. What it is saying is that the shanty genre is part of an Africa-based (African American) lineage of work singing. That comes from the research sources that the writer used in the creation of this presentation. Now, that lineage may include 1000 different data points of comparison to confirm the lineage. However, neither did they have the time to discuss all of the data points, nor did they think their audience would be able to understand all of them and nor, honestly, did the writer understand all of them himself. So, they chose to present just one salient data point that would have impact. Think of it this way: You see the presenter in the video. Do you suppose he has African ancestry? Yes, I think you do. Why? You respond with salient characteristics: "His skin is of a darker color" or maybe, "His hair is rather curly." Should I respond to that and say, "Ah, well, darker skin doesn't make his ancestry African, because people in southern India also tend to have dark skin" etc? That would be true, but it would be silly to say. Silly, because it's obviously not *only* darker skin that is telling you he has African ancestry. There are 1000 characteristics that allow you to reasonably surmise, based on your experience with looking at people in the world, that his ancestry is African. In the case of shanties, if you were to gain that level of familiarity with the sound of both chanties and (other) Africa-based songs, and study up on their history, the connection would be equally obvious. It is only through lack of deep familiarity that you are not seeing the connection and fixating on the one trait, e.g. "call and response" or "darker skin." In sum, the writer of the video (who is not the speaker in the video) is saying: "I did some light research on this topic in which I consulted some books and scholars. This is my attempt to convey what I learned from those sources. The expert sources told me that shanties have African American heritage. I, not being the scholar myself, cannot fully understand and represent everything in those sources, but here's one point from those sources that I did understand, which is that call and response structure is one of the accessible points of comparison, among many, that I can effectively present." We have to read between the lines when we see complex historical subjects presented in short form for popular consumption. There *are* some errors in this video, but this is not one of them. If you'd like to go more deep into the details of this subject, you can see my book _Boxing the Compass_: www.amazon.com/Boxing-Compass-Discourse-Chanties-Occasional/dp/1935243810/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3BF9C6AWSPL3R&keywords=gibb+schreffler&qid=1674253806&sprefix=gibb+schreff%2Caps%2C172&sr=8-1 Or check out video presentations on YT here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/j6PGnHaXfdOlr68 And here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i4XPfGyGgs6aac0 I think you'll see how those presentations of scholarship, however, are "too long" for popular audiences, hence the attempt made here by PBS to do something that would catch that audience.

[@marieroberts5458]

A comment to this excellent video. Please look at the you tube vid regarding the songs sung by the rail workers who fix the rails and replace the ties. Same thing as the shanty songs, as the work must be coordinated and timed. And again, the same reason and the same people as the railroad workers were usually black, white ethnic minorities and Chinese and seem to still be predominantly black today.

[@suddenwall]

The host looks like the kinda guy who is always thinking about 5 things at once and if you ask for his opinion on something he goes quiet for a beat, and says "It's complicated"

[@blinkcyclone5162]

Really enjoyed this .. very informative.. thank you..

[@claudiagreen9277]

if you use an image under cc by-sa, you have to do more than give credit - you have to license the work you produce with it under the same or a compatible license.

[@tmtigerlily]

This was so enjoyable, thank you.

[@jenluvjake]

That was fascinating. I never thought before about how black work songs as he sea shantys are so similar.

[@allpurposeamber]

Can Joel Cook host everything plz?!? Their cadence and tone 💜

[@marthaevans8270]

See the Penguin Folk Song book for The Basket of Eggs!

[@blufaerie]

I loved everything about this video! Very informative. And I used Napster 😏

[@CGraceWhiting]

This was a fabulous video 🎉

[@mrmoshpotato]

Yo ho ho, and a bottle of YARRRRR!!!!!!!

[@metalsomemother3021]

Nice violin of the Wellerman Check out MALINDA and her version on KZbin.

[@Fezezen]

I recognize every song exactly that was taken from APM in this video.

[@cruzvandewark]

Fascinating stuff.

[@MrEricSir]

Well, they certainly did in Assassin's Creed IV!

[@eutytoalba]

The massive role of privateers in the American Revolution ("If it floats, arm it!") has all but been entirely forgotten now, besides the fact that North America was settled in the era of sail-meaning that LITERALLY EVERYBODY who wasn't born on "the Continent" could relate to artistic material about sailing (or, if they weren't indigenous, they were immediately descended from people who experienced sail) which was really a darn cozy escapade that smushed people of all classes VERY close together to vomit through rough weather in the cold side by side on comparably equal terms.... I think that's one major reason why North America EXPLODED with pirate lore and wistful nostalgia, including luring Robert Louis Stevenson away from his beloved Edinburgh by the time he wrote "Treasure Island"-he was Scottish by birth, but American by choice, I conjecture because he found his best audience farther West. (He retired in Samoa, however, because the pace of life in the age of steam was TOO much for him.... I don't know if that was pure preference, or just because of his perpetual bad health; basically he never got bitten the cowboy bug that superseded sailing lore inland in America.)

[@Ulthar_Cat]

Arr! Avast ye scurvy curs! XD 💜

[@Kingpingblingbling]

Do a video on the history of the volga boatmen song

[@358itachi]

Only pirates song I have liked in modern times is 'Bink's sake'. That is one great song.

[@pudermcgavin4462]

I have the book and it's old and worn!

[@jeffhidalgo8457]

Ahoy maties! Well played! Oarrg!

[@Jaszi007]

BeeMP3 was my friend’s site of choice

[@jakedee4117]

These are all good points, synchronize the workers movements, train all the men in the language and the work. But I don't see why this should be an original African invention. Work songs exist in many cultures for many jobs, sailors pulling oars, women pounding corn and shearers shearing sheep. The call and response element of the antiphony is the foreman calling to the workers to get the work done right. Good rhythmic songs seem to be a natural part of the human experience. BTW here's a great old sea shanty, Roll the Old Chariot; kzbin.info/www/bejne/amqpiKNtjLGMgdk

[@hultonclint]

Because there are specifics of musical form and history that weren't discussed here (they are rather technical and too lengthy for a "pop" presentation). Same way that we understand Jazz, R&B, Blues, Rock 'n' Roll to have African American heritage. We don't say "oh yeah, they have rhythmic syncopation, and so does music in India, so maybe these genres are Indian." It's a specific genre of music from a specific place and time, and as such the finer musical details associated it with adjacent genres and the cultural background of its performers can be traced.

[@marcelogoncalvesdocouto7288]

@@hultonclint Couldn't them be influenced by Gaelic music as well tho? I know that the scotish had songs that also used call and response models, like this one: kzbin.info/www/bejne/l6evnayEqJiFhbM Not that the African influence would be impossible, but influence from scottish and irish music shouldn't be discarded since many of the western pirates were from the British Isles.

[@hultonclint]

@@marcelogoncalvesdocouto7288 What did I just say? I said there are specifics of musical form and history, that weren't discussed here, that make it clear the development comes from African Americans and African American forms. I'm not just wildly guessing, based on a single characteristic ("call and response"), to speculate that any Gaelic, Arab, Chinese, or BaAka Pygmy song with call and response therefore "could" be an influence. I'm telling you based on the actual details of the historical and musicological research. It's not African "influence" it's African American BASIS, and it is DOCUMENTED.

[@ruolbu]

@@hultonclint hey there, since you seem to know specifics in terms of influence and documentation, could you name something that could be looked up?

[@MaxShaffer]

Just FYI... Chanter in French is pronounced 'chan-tay'.

[@medealkemy]

Chan-tey is more accurate. Without the -y if possible.

[@vincentvega5686]

I liked the Napster reference lol

[@ericreativecuts]

Important question for Canadians: is Barrett's Privateers a pirate song?

[@averagejoey2000]

not Canadian but no on three counts. 1, a privateer resembles but is legally distinct from a pirate 2, Stan made it up. No such vessel sailed from that town on that day crewed by those guys, and that stuff did not happen to them. 3. Barrett's privateers is not a shanty, work songs have to have the same simple structure and tempo the whole time to facilitate hauling, which Barret's privateers is not. shanties are also usually Acapella or just one instrument and a bunch of guys. it's a great song I love it it's a bop but it's not a pirate shanty

[@35mm21]

Any shanties they did sing were inherently sea shanties, because they were at sea. :)

[@NotaCapn]

Joel, I'm struggling with this video. I've been performing maritime music for over twenty years and I've spent a lot of time researching both the music and the history; I'm afraid the basic premise about "pirates singing sea shanties" is not in evidence. People desperately want to believe that they did because Hollywood, but it just ain't so. The golden age of piracy was from about 1650 through 1730, but what is technically defined as sea shanties were not documented until the 1800s. Yes, laborers have probably been singing songs during their work since civilization began, but we don't know what they were because the songs were not documented in any way except through oral tradition. Not all sailors were pirates, but all pirates were sailors, and sailors during the golden age of piracy likely sang something - we just don't know what they might have sung. Stuart M. Frank wrote a very well-researched book called "The Book of Pirate Songs" and there isn't a sea shanty sung by pirates anywhere among the 62 songs therein. (There IS a song about Captain Avery, but it is not credited to his writing.) Sea shanties were labor management tools that enabled gangs of men to coordinate the timing of tasks - hauling on lines, walking around the capstan or working the bilge pumps. Tunes sung by sailors in off-hours that didn't involve work were not shanties - in 1800's parlance they were called forebitters or fo'c'sle songs. At the dozens of maritime music festivals that go on today all over North America, Europe and Australasia you will hear the broad category of maritime music - including sea shanties (of course) but also forebitters and even contemporary songs with themes of life on the ocean like "Brandy, You're a Fine Girl" by Looking Glass or "Sailing" by Christopher Cross. The Wellerman, ironically, is not a sea shanty, but is more of a forebitter sung on whaling ships. Another important book - the "bible of sea shanties" - was written by the legendary Stan Hugill, called Shanties from the Seven Seas. A full generation or more of contemporary maritime-themed musical groups have pored over this book for source material, as Hugill was actually one of the last, working shantymen, and he meticulously researched the hundreds of songs that he included. Want to learn more about the groups and festivals that have been presenting sea shanties and other maritime music? Check out the Maritime Music Directory International at seashanties4all.com/mmdi/.

[@deactivated148]

please create more contrast between the host and the background, parts of him get lost.

[@druidsongevergreens]

Lomax and the collectors for the Library of Congress changed the world

[@mkirklions]

"does that make us all Pirates?" >Me about to fkn rage so hard "No" >Oh? Oh... Huh, a video that doesnt speak in hyperbole? "Napster" >EYYYY LAMO XD hahahahha actually nice work.

[@Historian212]

"Chanter" in French would be pronounced "shan-TAY," not "shan-TAIR." The final "r" isn't pronounced.

[@WhiteBloggerBlackSpecs]

I'm guessing that was the shanty Quint sang to say adieu to Spanish maidens in Jaws

[@eutytoalba]

Irish and Russian sailors traded tunes on the Baltic Sea, and the tunes lived on in separate musical traditions which they weren't even native to

[@jaytea4093]

So basically, the spirit of gangster rap is many centuries older than the genre itself

[@byronofrothdale]

After watching this mini documentary... Can we consider The Banana Boat Song a sea shanty? 🤔🤔🤔

[@ctomfaith]

The One Piece rap is the greatest sea shanty of all time.

[@mecahhannah]

Awesome

[@johnchristopherrobert1839]

Good content

[@dementiasorrow]

One day, when the tonguing is done We'll take our leave and go Thats life for ya!

[@elcatrinc1996]

All in all is a great topic to discuss and investigate, but i cant help but wonder, how come we dont have shanties in another languages then? Almost all the ones that i had heard are in english, withg one exception being Pique la Baleine, which is in frech. We know that sailors and merchants traveled to the deep south of america, Vallipo Bay is a mistranslation of Valparaiso in Chile, and Santiano directly mentions Mexico, we also have Spanish Ladies and many others that refer to diferent parts of the world, so how come we haven't heard of sailors songs in Spanish?

[@hultonclint]

There are sailor songs in Spanish etc., but they are not chanties. Chanties is a particular genre of song, like rock n roll or jazz are music genres. Someone later on can certainly create a jazz song in Spanish, but it's not a Spanish genre per se.

[@jinchoung]

oh definitely. you have to have the ol' sea shanties... "brandy, you're a fine girl what a good wife, you would be, but my life, my love and my lady, is the sea... doo doo do doo do doo do doo do doo doo"

[@vaiyaktikasolarbeam1906]

lmao napster

[@Caterfree10]

How old I feel thinking of that site tbh. I can’t even think of it as the legit service it became, it’s so entrenched as a music piracy haven in my brain lol. Which is honestly kind of wild given Crunchyroll was similar for anime, but I have no issue thinking of them as a legit service instead of piracy. :Va

[@MassachusettsTrainVideos1136]

Cool video

[@velazquezarmouries]

Also sea shanties aren't only a western phenomenon The Japanese song soran bushi can be considered a sea shanty

[@hultonclint]

Why is that considered a shanty?

[@velazquezarmouries]

@@hultonclint it's an old Japanese fishermen song Wich is essentially what we call in the west a pull song

[@ronthealmightyratking8206]

Marvin Bagley. -Ron, The Almighty Rat King

[@diegoaespitia]

to be honest, i like to think that humanity has been singing "sea shanties" since the dawn of time. singing has always been human and most certainly, when humans were in canoes, they were probably singing along to the strokes

[@hultonclint]

Yeah, and they were playing jazz in their caves. Because jazz just means playing a beat and dancing to it, there's nothing specific at all about what we call jazz and every / any other kind of playing a beat and dancing to it. /s

[@Pou1gie1]

@7:42 If you study African American literature and history, they call this "Call-and-Response" rather than "Antiphony."

[@SwedishDrunkard5963]

Intresting

[@Sherirose1]

I used limewire and didn't know it was pirate music. Oops. Sorry. (Your voice is beautiful and thank you for the video. You look like Trevor Noah's cousin. Both handsome) .