Did Teams Just Spend More to Win Cups Before the Cap Era?

[@FHL-Devils]

Lamorello buying Cups is just silly. Players didn't make 'market rate' until they LEFT the Devils. Holik, Gomez, Driver, Arnott all got 50%+ raises by leaving the Devs... and that's just off the top of my head.

[@bted]

All four of those players you listed signed with the Rangers after leaving NJ. Arnott never actually played for them due to an injury.

[@spicoli3357]

Exactly lol.

[@FHL-Devils]

@@bted - Yeah, funny how that worked, eh? I forgot Gomer went to the Rangers and then Habs (I mistakenly thought the opposite). Jonny MacLean did too, but I didn't include him because he didn't get a raise, the Devils were just moving on from his reduced productivity. As for Arnott, he went from the Devils to Stars, so not quite the same scenario (running for the cash in NY), so I really can't count that.

[@grumpybogart]

Also Marty took discounts to stay on the Devils that were negotiated between just him and Lou if memory serves.

[@drewcormier8493]

This type of video is incredibly helpful and informative backed up by facts. Also, THG is the only one insane enough to put together that whiteboard and I love him for it.

[@bted]

Never mind Lamoriello. The FIRST team I think of as buying a Cup is the 94 Rangers. They brought in 7 players from the Edmonton Cup teams, and a few of them were, you know, sort of key players, if you remember. In fairness, Leech, Richter, Zubov, and Kovalev were also key players and never played for Edmonton. The Rangers later also brought in Gretzky because of course they did.

[@fakedeath13]

Rangers way more guilty of trying to buy cups than the Devils could ever dream of being

[@fiftyin07]

@@fakedeath13Facts, Rangers tried signing every big name veteran possible during this time (Gretzky, Messier, Jagr, etc…) and the Devils held more of a core together with Stevens, Neidermeyer, Brodeur, Elias, etc…

[@bradenstewart6270]

Idk why people keep telling these lies I just bought a Stanley cup right off Amazon today! Don’t even have to play hockey tbh but I appreciate those that do

[@Railblade]

It's really only fans of big market teams that get mad bout a salary cap. Fans of small market clubs or just people who are objective realize how a important a salary cap and floor is, not just for the competitive balance, but for the players themselves. Granted, a cap hasn't helped teams like Arizona / Columbus not be terrible, but it has helped others like Winnipeg / Nashville retain their talent.

[@ShaunBowm]

Salary cap does keep teams from over bidding for players( okay from really over spending)....sometimes the over spending is term or signing on an Ufa who had one good year

[@ShaunBowm]

I remember how one year NYR, decided to buy all the coveted free agents, pre salary cap.....good players to great players. They never got any chemistry or team concept, struggled mightly Was it the 80s? Or 90s, they just spent over what even the flush with money teams

[@marfenperson8181]

"Was it the 80s? Or 90s" Answer: YES

[@aepochbrett]

*ehem* wings won again in 2008. 2009 was Pittsburgh. How could I ever forget...

[@Lcngopher]

Watched that 09 final game while camping. The campground had a small theater and they showed the game on the big screen. Not happy in the end

[@MegaStara]

I always find it interesting how North American pro sports is build. Most of the players are just pieces on chess board. How easily you could just trade away or demoted to minor leagues.

[@1bert719]

I remember the insane late 90's early noughties Rangers where Glen Sather seemed to be signing contracts with a stamp and yet they were consistently terrible. 🤔

[@carparthero]

glen sather didn't actually come to NYR until 2000.

[@senorsoupe]

@@carparthero but he turbocharged Neil Smith's already bad spending habits. After having worked so long for an Oilers franchise that was perenially struggling for money, Slats seemed to get drunk on the money he could spend and gave players some ridiculous contracts.

[@gamingintrospection]

I had no idea that the richer/higher spending teams failed so frequently and even bottomed out during the final years of the non-salary cap era. This was very eye-opening and makes me appreciate both THG and the managers of successful teams (GMs, coaches, etc.). Money doesn't solve everything and this puts that into a very clear perspective.

[@woodsie22]

The choice of these years is probably flattering to the Blues. I think they were over $70 mil a few years before. At this point, Bill Laurie had already grown bored and was about to get rid of everyone and the team

[@TheManny717]

It has to be because of the Blake Snell and the Dodgers making a deal 🤝 for the next five seasons, huh? Yes, that’s baseball, but it’s not a coincidence that THG made this video. ;) 🤣 I know that THG explained why, but just a fun thought.

[@FHL-Devils]

Good call-out to PROMOTE the Cap. Haves / Have-Nots are ruining any entertainment value in baseball for 2/3 of the league.

[@johnsohn653]

Shout out to Chris for keeping up the tradition of spending a whole ton of money but not getting any results

[@carparthero]

DET did spend wheelbarrows to try an win the cup. god bless mike ilitch who had the enthusiasm of a serious fan, but the resources of a corporation. from 1993-94 all the way thru 2003-04, the red wings were consistently at or near the top of the charts in spending money. if you look at the 2001-2002 season detroit spent almost 3x more ($64.4m) than the cheapest team (NSH - $22m). alternatively, in the mid-late 1990's, glen sather used to bellyache while he was with EDM: "if i had the rangers resources i could win stanley cups." he then proceeded to join NYR in 2000, stayed with the team till 2015, and proceeded to win...0 stanley cups lol. goes to show money can't buy love, and it def didn't guarantee stanley cups (when there was no salary cap.)

[@MarkCMG]

Thanks for the video! There's not a lot a league can do to maintain some balance between small and large market teams and salary caps are probably as effective as anything else and the one thing that can be done by the numbers, the only fair way that avoids too much potential corruption.

[@adkeric]

The last team to “ buy a cup” was the ‘94 Rangers who just bought half of the ‘91 Oilers and added them to Leach and Richter.

[@tripsaplenty1227]

2001-02 Red Wings. Brought in Hull, Robitaille, and Hasek to their already stacked team.

[@hammerhyena4207]

Pretty great breakdown of the truth that championship teams exist due to many factors and no single factor ever gets it done. A lot of these budgets are pretty close together too. The outliers on both ends are pretty minimal I think.

[@senorsoupe]

Because the "Spend a metric ton of cash" plan worked really well for the Rangers

[@travellingplumber8528]

What a great topic for a video, your content never gets old or repetitive.

[@steamr0ll]

Outstanding hockey content Shannon, I rely on you to promote a calm and rational approach all season long. Thanks bud!

[@people3865]

That's why my Leafs won the cup every year pre cap...😂😂😂

[@carparthero]

TOR made the conference finals 1978, 1993, 1994, 1998, 1999, 2002. from 1995-96 onwards, the leafs were in the upper echelon of spenders, but not the highest, believe it or not. as usual these days, TOR does spend to the cap, but still can't win cups, let alone get past the 1st round lol.

[@dennish.7708]

You’re only looking at this along one dimension: Increase/Decrease in salaries across the NoCap/Cap boundary, and the year-to-year points. Any correlations you might find do not imply causation. There are multiple variables at work here, not the least of which is: What is the salary Increase/Decrease of all the opponent teams at the same time period, especially those teams that you play most often (and thus contribute more to your total points, or lack of same).

[@deltagolavista1]

Spending wisely is the key factor. Without the cap, agents of defensemen would look to a person like Nurse and say my guy is better than him, so my player deserves X amount instead of acknowledging that Nurse is actually overpaid. (As a simplified example) Idiots in Toronto, NY and Vegas would just spurn those prices up as well robbing key players from small markets. Ryan Smyth comes to mind

[@kevinkoszuta5425]

When the hockey guy decided to make a video about this I flashed back to in living color. I decided to make a song about and here it goes!

[@Christophernbh]

I think people underestimate how inflated contracts were before the cap. A guy like Bobby Holik would not get 8.5 millions of he was a free agent in his prime tommorrow, and then you realize he got that 20 years ago while Bush was still president.

[@WoozyPolarBear]

Did you get the idea for this video based on Brodie's video regarding Blake Snell signing with the Dodgers, who are outspending the rest of MLB to the point fans of baseball are calling for a salary cap in that sport?

[@chrisg1556]

I know the players are getting upset seeing the salaries in the other major sports sky rocket while NHL salaries have been flat for 20 years. In 1999, Jager was making just under 12 million. It's 2024, and the highest paid player is at 13.25. It's ridiculous. Franchise values have sky rocketed, but salaries have stayed roughly the same.

[@DevilzFan]

Anyone who thinks Lamoriello would ever spend freely was not watching the NHL. The only time he "splurged" was Kovalchuk, and that was not what he wanted to do. That was a mandate from the owner at the time

[@christopherharte4741]

If you.could just buy it the Yankees would never lose

[@bradgavel9991]

No amount of money can win you a championship...you can spend tons on huge stars, but it really comes down to how the team is built lines 1 through 4, depth means everything...having a good goaltender doesn't hurt neither 😅.

[@GizmoBeach]

Remember when teams like the Rangers would spend a bunch on guys like Holik to add grit etc. because they thought that’s what was missing? Oh yeah this guy and that guy will get us over the top, just like Matteau did in the past etc. Florida paid a ton to get Bobrovsky but that didn’t pay off immediately. Florida’s warm weather and lack of income tax finally enticed FA’s and basically good hockey players to want to be there, after years of irrelevance.

[@bartsanders1553]

2002 Redwings look like they're sweating a little suddenly...

[@griffenb]

This isn't really a good way to measure what you're looking for. Instead, you could pull up the payroll of cup winners from teams before the salaray cap and compare it to average payroll leaguewide. I would include the outliers in payroll to help illustrate the point.

[@Belabartok-lt8pv]

Lightning pre Vinnick ownership was very cheap.Jeff Vinnick great owner.thats a big factor plus tv money different now.

[@ShaunBowm]

Spending is okay but you still need to draft well

[@golfops]

Wonder how many historically good teams would’ve been way over the cap if they happened today. I bet it’s a lot.

[@angushiltz4880]

Not a lot really. In 1978 Ken Dryden and Guy Lafleur had the highest salary on the Canadiens team. Each of them made 180,000 in 1978. I'm not an economist but I think that equals less than 1 million in today's value.

[@TheGrumpyCanuck]

Sounds a lot like the 'moneyball' philosophy.

[@jamesruscheinski8602]

is there any relation between salary spending and regular season attendance? between regular season performance and regular season attendance?

[@FrankSuffern]

yes they did

[@marfenperson8181]

Lol. Anyone doubting Lamoriello's chops has zero context whatsoever. Talk about a poverty franchise... yall clearly just do not know.

[@GalacticWrestlingFederation]

Ask Rangers fans. The answer is NO

[@disruptive7640]

Yeah just like baseball

[@mbertrand]

Jiggy!!!