Did This Guy Just Solve Stormgate's BIGGEST Problem..?

[@Gobsmack-r5c]

Thank you for the shout out!

[@Stormgate_Central]

No worries man, thanks for sharing this with us!

[@Broockle]

cool map bro 😀

[@XSquidbeatsX]

I think it could have that hook.

[@Smelly13]

I’ve been mentioning more dynamic maps since the earliest releases. Objectives that would flush a river through the map when captured dealing dmg and slowinh units down, objectives setting expansions on fire when not taken in time etc - all in 1v1 and 3v3. But the ideas mentioned are spot on

[@NeonTheGreat]

for me Stormgate is Space Diablo RTS. it has so much small improvements and changes in comparison to other classic RTSes and a couple of unique races mechanics that I think it defends itself well. maybe one thing comes up to my mind: I wish they went more into dynamic and destructible map, like I like the role of the trees or rocks

[@FrankSriracha-Stormgate]

More interaction with the map itself would be awesome

[@eduardoserpa1682]

So far, the biggest draw to Stormgate for me has been unit control. High TTK and more melee combat just mean I get to play with the toys for longer. More dynamic PvE behavior works pretty well with that, so I'm interested.

[@solarr69420]

Once editor's out, Stormgate's going global thermonuclear

[@EricNapoli-z3d]

Cope of the day goes to....

[@alsto8298]

With all that 3 players online that will be there till that time.

[@EricNapoli-z3d]

@ Actually, there are ONE HUNDRED players who currently have SG open. Check mate, atheist.

[@alsto8298]

@@EricNapoli-z3d Actually peak online now is 100 players and by the time when editor will be released (if) it will be barely any. Check mate, atheist. edit: oh, sry thats exactly what you said (100 peak, 70 avg). For some reason i've read it as a thousand.

[@EricNapoli-z3d]

@ I agree with you, I was just joking.

[@tristanmestroni6724]

Very cool idea, and I really appreciate the effort of demonstrating the whole thing. Its also so good to see people coming up with interesting ideas that arent just "remove creeps!"

[@Gobsmack-r5c]

Thank you! and I agree "remove creeps" is about the most boring direction you could take Stormgate.

[@lChronosl93]

That is a very cool map, even for SC2 standards.

[@ZombieApocalypse09]

I'm 100% on board that creep camps are too un-engaging that they may as well be removed. While I think uniqueness can be a selling point, I think often chasing it leads to developers making bad games. I think most people would rather have a competent, well executed clone than something that is unique but not fun. For an RTS, the novelty of new factions and different interplay between them is enough of a selling point, IMO. Where SG is falling down IMO is that it's unfinished and doesn't seem to have a focus or vision for itself. I do think a solution like this could be very interesting. It will make map design more difficult since you don't want to just repeat the same mechanic for every map. But it would be fun. Personally, I think they should just add heroes to 1v1 and go full WC3 with the camps. It may not be unique, but having to pick your hero at the start and only getting one hero might make it different enough. Also the system just works. Shops, items, tomes, expansions that are blocked by creeps... if you want creeps in your game it has to be compelling and fit into the flow of the game. If not, if FG don't want to do any of these ideas, just get rid of them IMO.

[@kyleg5141]

No team games ranked play has killed the game for me, my friend group plays team games and the lack of 2v2 and 3v3 has completely ruined any hope of playing the game with my friends.

[@Stormgate_Central]

That’ll definitely be arriving in the future before 1.0 I think.

[@JAMman]

Know what would go crazy? If the game looked exactly like the concept sketches. That style looks so good

[@somaloll]

playing stormgate really made me miss the emphasis on economy that was in sc2. The combination of limited surface area to harass, stronger workers and insanely strong static defense really dulls the multitasking aspect. I feel like thats a part of the game thats really hard to go without in this new gen of rts

[@DanTheMeek]

Artistically - Have attacked troops show a recoil animation, different animations if repeatedly hit during the animation like your being combod. -- Right now the game suffers from MMO syndrome for me visually, my units don't react to being hit, and take forever to die, which breaks immersion and makes me feel disconnected from the action. I get this is common in RTS, but in most RTS your units die so fast you don't notice, the visceral feel of damage comes from the death animation. If this game is going to continue to have huge damage sponges for troops, then it needs to think outside the classic RTS box and let me feel like I'm doing something, or something is being done to me, visually beyond health bars decreasing.

[@eduardoserpa1682]

It's an interesting idea. Some modern fighting games have invested in making safe defense look cooler to make people feel like they're still participating in the game while holding pressure. I don't know if doing that through animation that would work as well in an RTS, but the idea is good.

[@xeroprotagonist]

I don't think it's really an animation issue, units being huge damage sponges just feels bad to play with even if they do react appropriately to getting hit, it's something I've noticed across many genres of games. It's become especially common in stuff like gacha games because they want to frustrate you into spending money so you can get through ridiculous enemy HP pools faster. I'd actually say the extended TTK is the real biggest problem in Stormgate, it's the ultimate source of most other problems in the game.

[@eduardoserpa1682]

@@xeroprotagonist The higher TTK is the biggest reason I have any interest in Stormgate over Starcraft, as someone who kinda likes AoE (in late game only) and Warcraft combat, but prefers Starcraft economy and responsiveness. I like that controlling my units in battle is a much bigger portion of the time I spend playing Stormgate or Battle Aces compared to Starcraft or AoE. It's a pretty common sentiment, and trying to be more like Starcraft doesn't benefit Stormgate.

[@DanTheMeek]

@@xeroprotagonist I'm not a fan of the high TTK, but for what its worth, it is one of the few things that makes storm gate stand out. If they removed it, storm gate gets even blander, even more generic. Which isn't to say they shouldn't remove it, again I'm not a fan of it myself, just that there's an argument for keeping it, but finding ways to make it feel better. When your doing something thats not common in a genre, it might just not work in that genre, or it might be that you need to make other tweaks to make it work. I don't know that better visual feed back of injury is enough to make me like high TTK, but I suspect it would be an improved experience over the current one.

[@kosmosfantasias7545]

​@@eduardoserpa1682You should try Immortal: Gates of Pyre then. I have way more fun with that game than Stormgate.

[@news_IT-my1610]

The theme of this game does not really match any of fantasy or sci-fi. What is the simple story behind? 😢

[@tristanmestroni6724]

Isn't that a good thing? It's original. It doesn't have to match anything?

[@blackhand9581]

Stormgate is trying to be like Starcraft 2, but the very audience they are appealing to, Starcraft 2 fans, see no reason to switch. After all, why would they if it is essentially just another Starcraft 2? The aesthetics is a good start. As much as we deny it, we do judge books by its cover. But that won't be enough unless they bring something new to the table. If their map editor is simple like SC:BW with the expansiveness of SCMDraft, then they can atleast guarantee the game's longterm survivability. Homeworld 3 is a recent example of this lack of innovation and sudden shift in aesthetic killing a game.

[@tomdelonge1985]

I had this idea a long time before and wrote it down under several Stormgate youtube videos.

[@MattyOfPassion]

I absolutely despise the idea of creep camps. It diffuses and obscures my priorities and objective by forcing me to do something artificial that is not related to defending, expanding, scouting or attacking to defeat my opponents strategy. It forces me to build an army that I dont need yet just to do "side quests", and then on top of that forces that army out of position, for artificial "gains" which without I will be uncompetitive. Expanding of that idea will make the game even worse. The problem stormgate has is that it is trying to borrow too many things from too many genres. It is like borrowing one ingredience from each of many great food traditions. You get something that is more disconnected than the parts, because the pieces do not fit into a cohesive idea. Like italian pasta or pizza? We just put wasabi and taco sauce in it, to attract also ppl who like japanese and mexican food, yey. Stormgate needs to identify a cohesive idea that they want to go for as their game's identity, and remove everything that does not fit with that.

[@_AR_1]

What this game needs is "Micro Tricks". Looking at Brood War, there are so many micro tricks that require from mediocre-to-immense skill that it makes even small 3-4 unit skirmishes exciting to watch. Let me give a few examples: 1.muta micro. 2.worker drills. 3.Valkyrie micro. 4.Vulture moving-shot micro. 5.Scourge vs Corsair micro. 6.Defilers trying to land plagues and Science Vessels trying to hit EMP shots. 7. two dragoons stutter-step clearing spider mines. 8. the dance that worker vs worker battles turn into early game. these are just to name a few. Todays RTS games have the skill equivalent of "I point skill on enemy unit and it lands 100%" that is boooooring. If a Viper from sc2 abducts a enemy unit that unit is as good as dead 99% of the time, there's no dodging that. If a High Templar feedbacks a caster its prob. an insta-kill, and there's so many more. My point is the game should have a skill expression in the little details.

[@Stormgate_Central]

Absolutely agree, that’s the real magic of Brood War along with all the other skills it requires. That being said I bet it took many years for players to figure these things out with the pathing and whatnot, so who knows if we’ll see anything similar.

[@heyblackduck]

lol yes! This video just makes so much sense

[@minibeast21]

Despite my initial dissapointment after paying for the 3 x additional extra single player missions in such a severe underdeveloped EA stage; im still keeping my eye out on Stormgate. I really hope Frostgiant can salvage this & make into a sustainable & successful new RTS franchise

[@TGHoly]

My main problem with storm gate is the game feel like Starcraft 2 arcade mod and in weird way how armies move also similar maps also design around fight in narrow area like SC2 which I really hate and ramps everywhere.

[@ИванСмирнов-й8н5ш]

I see this solution to the problem. Make sure that the creeps simply do not provide resources, and the struggle goes on for the camps themselves, which give bonuses. Therefore, we need to make the camps themselves more efficient.

[@jeremybuck1512]

The new biggest problem is that it is considered a "failed launch." Creep camps is going to solve that how?

[@koala-ytt]

Creep camp is meh but it’s not Stormgate’s biggest problem

[@Broockle]

Stormgate is living a contradiction a bit. There's just no modern 1v1 games, everything is more social these days, 100 player battle royale, 6v6 shooters, or 10 player ffa battle chess kind of deals are the norm. Trading Card games are prbly the most common 1v1 style games, but those don't require fast inputs, they're slow and the games are more about deck building than actually playing. Stormgate wants to capitalize on the social aspect of modern games but make a classic RTS. It's just not gonna be like WC3 or SC2, it needs to evolve further. Basically it's not going to be just 1 game, it will be hundreds, all made by the community with the tools by the devs. Really the editor might be its hook, it could become the Roblox of RTS games.

[@kevingriffith6011]

Fighting games are the biggest they've ever been right now: Just last year Street Fighter 6 had a tournament with a two million dollar prize pool, and Tekken 8 isn't slouching in that department either. Guilty Gear is more popular that it has ever been, Marvel vs Capcom collection is popping off and we're about to get 2XKO which is also set to make a killing. There's an audience for 1 on 1 content, it's just not as big as team multiplayer.

[@Broockle]

@@kevingriffith6011 ye tru, great point, I forgot about fighting games. They're also big, I guess they are also still in their 1v1 world like RTS, unable to become a more social game. Tho what relevance do tournament prize pools have? Esports can't be compared to general trends in consumerism. That's the whole trap SC2 and OW fell into. A game needs to be fun first and foremost. Only then will it trend and gain traction in the culture.

[@captainlogic4684]

I respect the devs and the business risk, but I think their personal experience made them overly nostalgic. Blizzard games have the best RTS inputs for micro and dynamic play. Therefore, use the input style and make something entirely different with it. Pure Top Down is tired. So very tired. Every type of unit, mechanic has been done.

[@toddgreener]

ummmm, I think the premise of the video is just off. Why would I play SG rather than SC? Because I like the art, the game speed, the balance better? There are no swarm hosts or brood lords? Like, idk, this idea that you need a "special hook" is just wrong. Why would you play Metroid vs Castlevania? LoL vs DotA? Sure there are some slightly different mechanics, but at the end of the day it's not about mechanical hooks, but pacing, atmosphere, and what you specifically value in a game. Games can and SHOULD be different in their details. Starcraft hasn't explored its entire space of possibilities with the mechanics it has. It has specific discrete choices within that space. There could be thousands of variations on that, and they would all be valid.

[@austinollinger82]

I’m ok with removing creep camps and the team just adding those “wow” moments in 1v1 will make a big difference. Example: widow mine in mineral line or baneling bust. I think those moments make for exciting gameplay and exciting casting

[@kevingriffith6011]

The thing is, the developers expressly wanted to step AWAY from 'widow mine in the mineral line'. They don't want a game where you look away for half a second and an entire squad of units is erased from existence or your entire mineral line is gone. High time to kill is in the design document for a reason: a lot of starcraft players hate how many units can kill units from full health without warning.

[@alanevans5353]

One thing I would really like to see is a MOBA style game mode, where 2 players are RTS players, and a few other players on each team can't build anything but instead have heroes to take objectives and help with Army battles for their RTS players. That would be a really unique game mode that would open the game up to a lot more people who don't normally play RTS games.

[@kosmosfantasias7545]

Silica is what you imagined then but it's RTS/FPS. However, that game has an extremely small playerbase, so once again making RTS "accessible" to non-RTS players didn't work.

[@alanevans5353]

@@kosmosfantasias7545 I'm not familiar with Silica, but there is a very Large difference between a MOBA and an FPS. A MOBA is far closer in style to a true RTS game, and opens the door to expanding the number of troops you control as you gain experience, letting you open the door slowly into true RTS gameplay.

[@kosmosfantasias7545]

@@alanevans5353 It's similar to what you described. FPS players controlling the units that RTS players build for them but I heard it's difficult for rts players since you have to communicate a lot with the fps players to do exactly what you wanted. In the end, the game has 30 - 60+ players only. They know it's too risky to explore new things in RTS as it tends to fail.

[@alanevans5353]

@@kosmosfantasias7545 So I've looked into Silica and while the concept sounds similar on the surface, it seems pretty clear looking at gameplay that the biggest issue is that FPS gameplay is too far removed from RTS gameplay to be an effective way to ease players into the genre. I don't think they are going to implement this kind of idea, but I at least believe fusing an RTS with a MOBA has the potential to be successful at teaching people RTS mechanics in a more learnable way that opens the door to people who already play games in a similar vein.

[@markjohntowse5347]

3.7k views, 37 players atm, rofl...

[@CoL_Drake]

the lack of 2v2 ranked has completely ruined the game for me

[@GaetanoEvangelista]

I'm excited for it too. It will arrive eventually.

[@garryarganis5801]

for me personally it would be better if they straight up just remove any creep camps and every context about them in any way and any form and maybe since they put so much effort into the keep them for Co-Op or 3v3 and stuff, creep camps are either too strong in 1v1 or dont have much of an impact, so why complicate the game with such a hit and miss mechanic?

[@Smelly13]

Is it me, or does the game feel a bit ’sluggish’ compared to like sc2? I know there are a lot of problems with nvidias engine regarding a real 60fps (what is gotten is made to look 60fps, but really is 30fps). Maybe someone else knows better. But if it is then the engine might be a bad choice for an rts

[@Stormgate_Central]

Yeah it's incredibly unoptimized atm, UE5 is notorious for that so they have a lot of work to do.

[@Kedzke]

No, he didn't. Or rather, it's an entirely different game this way - with different values, and for different audience. At this point, anything's worth a shot of course, but this particular idea pretty much reads "let's throw everything away and make it into a 1v1 Heroes of the Storm" (of which you've aptly shown a couple of clips). This is a comment not on the quality of the idea (which is cool), but on the scope of the changes. And as a matter of fact, creep camps are not THAT integral to Stormgate, and aren't that big/expensive of a feature. So the argument "they are already there, so let's lean more into them" is not very strong.

[@diegobuenovillafane869]

would be good get rid of the creeps. Make the shots of the arms actually fast. little faster, relevance of the terrain, get rid of the dog and other early annoying units...

[@JonFTrudel]

Its how the units interact with each other that is the big issue. The dogs, the exo's and more. Comon stormgate get your shit together. Jeez

[@DM-ox4jq]

Is there STILL a stormgate "community"? I thought this game is dead

[@alsto8298]

How does that solve their biggest problem a.k.a. incompetent staff, especially writers?

[@petercriscuola]

creep camps suck too.