E79: What the hell happened to Green politics? With Yanis Varoufakis, Julijana Zita and more!

Not so long ago, the term “green politics” had a much more radical meaning, and a vote for a Green party was a vote for climate justice.
Green parties have benefitted politically from the impact of growing movements like Fridays for Future and Extinction Rebellion. They have entered government in countries like Germany and Austria, partnering with far-right parties in the process. In Germany, they are razing villages to open the way for new coal mining, while the world is careening towards the crucial 1.5 °C mark in the average global temperature rise. And when it comes to world affairs, while previously firmly anti-war, some are now taking pro-war stances.
In addition to this, terms like “green” and “sustainable” are being coopted by politicians and corporations alike (with the EU’s recent Beyond Growth Conference providing some fresh examples).
What happened? Our team, including Yanis Varoufakis, Julijana Zita and Dusan Pajovic, investigates.
Join us live and send us your comments and questions!
0:00 [Introduction] Mehran Khalili
1:43 Davide Castro
10:17 Yanis Varoufakis
29:41 Questions and comments from the chat
30:30 Dusan Pajovic
35:52 Amir Kiyaei
41:56 Dusan Pajovic
42:35 Mehran Kahlili
43:07 Johannes Fehr
48:54 Julijana Zita
52:41 Defne Dalkara
59:40 Ivana Nenadovic
1:02:07 [Conclusion] Mehran Khalili
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#climatechange #environment #europe

[@rudstoncullen3410]

Extremely profound insights as usual from Yanis regarding the consequences of going for "success" and abandoning one's principles ...

[@andreaerling7614]

Just look at the German Green Party. A bunch of opportunists, incompetents, sucking up to the digital financial complex, the arms industry and Big Pharma. As a German national I am so appalled by this party that I'm lost for words.

[@cathjones4899]

Capital is expert at capturing everything. They have the money, they have the airwaves, they are able to appeal to base self interest and basic need. People living on the edge need to know about tomorrow not in 10 years time and this has progressives over a barrel.

[@johnperniciaro785]

Right. "capturing everything". Situation is bleak. Status quo out of answers ---all that's left is endless wars

[@salvatorepelligra297]

I'll suggest you to check mutual aid and prefigurative politics. That's what people on the edge would benefit from learning

[@marcoscott9445]

Good on you Yanis!!!

[@mariettestabel275]

Thanks to all of you. Keep going. Greeks-the Light of the World. 💫

[@stasacab]

I used to be Green in the late 1980's in Finland and there was a division between so called wellington boot greens (wellies were worn by environmentalists protesting biodiversity destruction) and salon greens. Take a guess who took over the party.

[@nikolaj4064]

This was great we need more stuff like this and Gary Stevenson

[@axax7668]

Vote for a politian of any creed and one gets a corrupt same old same old.

[@extradimension7356]

Great introduction ! Will endeavor to find time for all the rest.

[@jimbob-robob]

This was good...👍🖖✊️

[@user-ny6bq7es2u]

I am of the opinion that diem25 should be quite cautious pushing plant based nutrition Culturally, loads of humans have meat in their diet. Soy production is extremely environmentaly destructive. The Amazon forest is being removed for soy production.

[@caballosinnombre3981]

success does not tempt the one who grows stronger in defeat

[@katepellegrini9560]

This is a very interesting discussion. As a new XR Rebel in London UK, I’m trying to get to grips with the issues and my head is spinning unsurprisingly. Jason Hickle’s arguments for degrowth and the end of the 5 century capitalist model is very convincing. My confusion rises from our fundamental nature as pack animals, needing to follow leaders we trust. This begs the question of how can true democracy work? We don’t all want to vote for all issues.

[@TheChromanoise]

Lol. “Rebel” 😅

[@cameronmclennan942]

​@@TheChromanoiseahh yes, the old "laugh at everyone who's not completely aligned with your politics way to build political alliances and solidarity". Welcome to the left. Way to illustrate exactly how difficult it is to get out of teams/tribes as a human

[@alisonfayers-kerr9089]

The Green New Deal for Europe? No way!

[@marcoscott9445]

I have a profound feeling that this situation is going to get out of hand……….it’s all happening in front of our eyes and I stare at it with awe…….may God help us….(as they said in the old days)

[@Trip4man]

For what is worth... Governments are doing good things actually. As an Environmentalist and when I started working on the field, I was VERY surprised that they had the infrastructures all set up, applying even the most demanding norms. This is valid for my country fyi... Other countries??! I have NO idea. And don't worry because even if was financed by the Government doesn't mean I'm their monkey! I will ALWAYS be ethical even if I lose my job. Because once you see the horrors.... You'll know that it will get me, you, EVERYBODY. Can't be a selfish bastard on this one for sure... So defending my values WILL indirectly defend yours too. But yeah there's something worrying going on because I fear that Environment will become something like Big Pharma. They'll probably have political parties favoring some Green non-sense to further monetary gains from corporations. Which... Idk... Maybe can even be beneficial. Electric cars for example will help getting rid of a LOT of pollution indeed. Does it have cons??! Probably yes. Will it make some corporations richer??! Sure. But at least we're taking steps in the right direction. Some people are too negative and too perfectionist... There won't be something like 'Zero Pollution' but we can drastically lower the levels for sure

[@alisonfayers-kerr9089]

I am a Christian

[@alisonfayers-kerr9089]

Electric cars will get rid of pollution? Don’t make me laugh.

[@kalaupun]

I'm glad I listened to this and hear Varoufakis's endorsement of the standard, stale Pentagon talking points against China and Russia.

[@johnperniciaro785]

They are all liars---look to France ---they are not dead yet....

[@MauriceGucci]

25:45 my favorite part. This is what it's all about, thank you Yanis!

[@thegreatsookini]

Yesterday, we had an election in Alberta, Canada. This is an historically conservative stronghold, but recently our popular vote is split. We have a principled Green Party who earned 1% of the vote this election. I am struck by your point Yanis to ask: why do left idealists corrupt their ideals when in power. The Alberta New Democratic Party has certainly cozied up to extractive capitalism in contrast to its roots on the left. My question is How do we build our green movement in Alberta in a way that will keep us true to principles and make us less vulnerable to corruption by power.

[@NoWindNoSunNoPower]

I suggest getting a life.

[@GetFochD]

The system is corrupt at the core

[@coracka]

100% I feel the same way about NDP, locally, provincially and nationally

[@brianwheeldon4643]

Great question. Sadly, I don't think it's possible. I think as in New Zealand where we have a greenparty-management-consultocracy, Alberta Green leaders will bend to capitalism. It seems to be human nature. We used to a have a 'Values Party' that became the Green Party. Within 10 to 15 years as leaders changed, it became 'just someparty we used to know' Now it's a barrier to change. The grassroots are mostly greenish, but neoliberalism and neocolonial capitalism is like a spiders web and embedded throughout society in NZ. Maybe the same in Canada? If you are different you're probably along the lines of A22, Just Stop Oil and Save Old Growth, but these operate outside the established 'Rules Based System'. And you won't find any Greenparty in that territory. We're both integral members of 5 Eyes, remember? And don't forget NATO. We're all in

[@blixten2928]

According to Naomi Klein: take over local, not national government. Civil society-level democracy and initiatives, throughout the nations, will provide an alternative. Corporate capture of national governments has gone much too far for parliamentarians to have a chance.

[@gunnarMyTube]

Defne Dalkara - so alive and precise.

[@adrianmacfhearraigh4677]

Sadly the ecological heart of the 'Green' parties is dead. This was clear for me back in the noughties when the Green Party in Ireland focused primarily on getting more representatives elected to get into government. Once in government sophistry was amplified to a maximum level. The internal governance structure within the party even became centralized and bureaucratic and the grassroots bottom up democratic structure was jettisoned. I stood as a representative for the local elections in 2003 applying green principles in my campaigning but the message wasn't accepted by the electorate. I departed from the Green Party in 2006 once it got into government to taste power and will never return when decentralized democratic proposals drafted by myself were rejected. I had a similar experience when studying Renewable Energy in a degree in the late 1990s. There was no acceptance that replacing existing 'energy generation technologies' with renewable energy technologies was unrealistic and simply another technocratic hegemonic economic system. Green Party politicians are simply another group of parliamentary corporate minded administrators who think they have the silver bullet to fix the problems of the world by simply tweeking government policy. This is magical fantasy mechanistic thinking, not ecological thinking. How ironic!

[@MrBallynally2]

Sorry to bring the news but that is how politics works. Compromise to retain or get power unless you are strong enough to hold it yourself which will be, em, never. It happened in Ireland as it did in Germany. If i see Eamonn on the news i quickly switch the channel. Aliha from a sunny Donegal..

[@MrBallynally2]

ALOHA😊

[@desmondmccabe8321]

the irish green party has been a disappointment - internal decentralised and democratic governance should have been possible (among other things) - it seemed to have real popular backing at one stage but it doesn't seem to make any real headway getting worthwhile things done -

[@salvatorepelligra297]

I've only watched around 30 minutes, and while it is interesting to know more about the Greens, I can see quite some naivety (or perhaps hypocrisy?) when tackling the question: "why DM25 wouldn't end up as corrupted as the Greens?". It is almost ironic to hear that DM25 is different because X, immediately followed by "money always finds its way to corrupt". The sad part is that we have plenty of historical examples that confirms the principle that "power always corrupts", notwithstanding the ideological backbone, hence I hope you'll excuse me if I state that in the long run DM will certainly suffer from corruption. In my opinion, the only way to avoid corruption it is to truly dismantle all structure of power, including money. I'd love to hear your opinion on this.

[@eduardohope4909]

Maybe it isn't naivety so much as forgetfulness that makes activists think that any political party, no matter what its reason for wanting to break up the status quo, would not fall into the same trap...of being part of the (new) status quo. One could even see it as a Hegelian dialectical truism: status quo, anti-status quo, new status quo, repeat (no rinsing). The sophisticated answer is to know going in that there is no cure; the new political party simply wants to offer something new that isn't available in the current status quo AND simply needs to break in and do its new thing for as long as it can. It's like the human body, renewing its cells periodically; knowing that the new cells eventually run out of 'new juice' doesn't make cell renewal useless. Cell renewal keeps the body alive and healthy and able to walk the Earth. Same with the 'res publica'.

[@marcoscott9445]

It’s a disgrace!!!!!!

[@r4ybc]

How did Yanis verify the stories of China's abuse of ethnic minorities?

[@kalaupun]

He has no idea, he just wants to fit into the social cliques of miseducated people who read the Guardian like the bible.

[@basfinnis]

They seem to have turned out to be the biggest warmongers going! 😮

[@johnmccarthy1770]

Green means corporate time to start again

[@dreammfyre]

The green movement and stuff like WWF have always been co-opted by billionaires no?

[@blixten2928]

WWF, Sierra Club and other "big green" (read: very rich) environmental NGO:s - sometimes also called the "big ten" - are viewed askance by XR, Earth First!, Stop Ecocide and other radical organisations as being far too close to power, much too ready to compromise. Greenpeace is still reliable, though, in my experience. These radical groups generally agree that continued economic "growth" will doom the planet. As civil disobedience is increasingly outlawed in Europe, we'll have to see what direction the real environmentalists can take.

[@green2stayecoswdmarketingn339]

Greetings from Sydney,🦘 thankyou for your work and efforts, we called our media network Green2Stay alluding to a "here to stay" commitment , Yanni's mentioned a "selling of the soul" we are in a spiritual battle , realising this principle is our anchor ⚓, Look forward to future podcasts 👍

[@imnotanalien7839]

Countries like Germany, just realized no real energy… no economy…. other countries are in the same Greta Green boat!

[@gustaveliasson5395]

Missed the stream by thiiis much. Oh well, better late than never.

[@aerobique]

🌍🌎🌏✊️

[@costasyiannourakos6963]

I don't know how green should be called the hugely motivated fires based on efforts to set routes within reservation forests in Thrace northern Greece and not only for settling air turbines, an inefficient energy producing way.!!!

[@mikeharvey9811]

OMG……I didn’t know they were like that…my friend call them Tories on bikes. Barb

[@tommymurtagh8888]

Tories in Teslas.

[@johndavis2399]

The rea'l politik'that trumps our cerebral ideals......is that we are all dependent on food, clothing and shelter.....produced by corporations. Although we can be offended by the ceo's greed......the system does produce,,,,quite an amazing lot. Like it or not....the current arrangement of production does provide for a relatively large portion of the Western World to live without the fear of starving or freezing to death. Our ancestors, like ourselves today, chose, and we choose, convenience over self reliance.

[@jamesayres1225]

Extreme ignorance is a large part of the problem

[@nadpay2409]

Green Party became the mouth piece for Jennifer Pitzkar's gender Ideology-investment.

[@fazaelma]

Btw i also dont know working class green voters. They are mostly people who work for governments and or hipsters

[@ike637]

Exactly!! . So that even should industry and agriculture cease altogether, they still have their save well paid jobs

[@dermotdonnelly5495]

Great video. Should we vote for any party that is not ant-capitalist?

[@kforest2745]

I guess people got tired of virtue signaling and high maintenance demands just yet another attempt to take control out of everyday lives

[@veronikaquinton8447]

Defne from France made a lot of sense. where are the workers in all this?: struggling with job insecurity food and housing insecurity, their safety and their future marginalised on every level. Get back to the basics! They have no time, energy, or money to concern themselves about the planet. Which will be devastating for the planets future and our existence. They need to become aware their future is at stake and they are needed for the change. The children in Africa scratching out an existing so middle classes in wealth nation can drive around in battery drive car can feel good about themselves (scares the hell out of me.) It is not the answer.

[@cathjones4899]

There are some working class greens in Scotland, tending to be educated, but point taken.

[@gallectee6032]

Even if going vegan in Serbia is more expensive, does not mean it is so everywhere else. In the majority of places plant based diets are cheaper.

[@delfimoliveira8883]

We have the good ideas but as they say of good ideas is the hell full of The ideas must be transformed into action and unfortunately the way things are it must be direct violent action . The time of the good guys is over .

[@kunaljain712]

How is Yanis these days? I hope he is ready to make a return. We won't spare this time! - Red Flag Union

[@zantecarroll4448]

...we wont spare this time...? what wont you spare? confusing if sinister sounding message it's difficult to be thoroughly outraged without the noun!

[@kunaljain712]

He was attacked by Fascists a little while ago, what's your problem Carroll?

[@zantecarroll4448]

@@kunaljain712 it sounded to me like a threat... im glad to hear it isnt

[@KlausRiede]

Who is the guy with the blue sweater?keep up paper nam3 sheets please ...

[@DiEM25official]

Hi Klaus, do you mean the speaker at the start? If so, his name is Davide Castro. You can find the names of speakers bottom left of the screen.

[@jusmeetsingh1907]

Varoufakis should also go a little soft on Syriza as well. All the power & trump cards were in the hands of the Troika. Syriza stood no chance. It had to bend and give in to the EU.. in any eventuality. It was at mercy of EU & could be arm twisted at will. As the EU system was structured in such a way as to make the poor countries totally dependent on the EU. They had no power to demand anything from the EU system. One could foretell how it would end.

[@gallectee6032]

Varoufakis had a prevention strategy, but Tsipras even though agreed to follow it before Varoufakis agreed to the position, did not. This is all on him. Do you know why the Troika would've came to the table in good faith by following this strategy? because the Euro itself would've been at risk. They would've saved it rather than let it be destroyed for an insignificant amount of money. It's a no brainer. Instead, Tsipras followed his own strategy. Give everything they're asking for in return for something in the future. And you can see how well that worked out.

[@fazaelma]

French speaker is the most rational

[@psihozefir]

What's the name of the speaker from France?

[@DiEM25official]

Hi Sorin, her name is Defne Dalkara.

[@jimbob-robob]

Focal? Alcatel? Cabasse? I think Cabasse make the best speakers...

[@Rhetoscut]

Human nature. Group think, I want to fit in, I tend to go along with whichever group I am in, I want a seat at the table, then I don't want to be outcast. Add big money and political partisan positions. Down the rabbit hole we go. I don't want to lead, follow, or go along leads to sitting in a forest meditating , alone.

[@richardchetwynd1618]

Joschka Fischer

[@zantecarroll4448]

is green the new blood red?

[@jflipkinkel8189]

There is some talks on how green has been being used to promote aspects of fascism also known as ecofascism there is articles you can find on that topic off topic but televant is a video on youtube produced by economic update or by the producers of democracy at work on how austerity can or will lead to fascism i would put links but my last comment eith links got deleted by youtube

[@doviejames]

My dad used to describe ambitious leftists he encountered thus: "they hate capitalism but they love money!".

[@surdzo]

Everyone loves money, most of us living in material world not on Himalayan plateau, the problem with capitalism (or better put neoliberalism ) is that the money are not spread evenly (fairly) The greediness of a few (persons, corporations, banks, hedge funds etc) disrupts wellbeing of many. Ordinary Western people (those who live in USA/EU/JPN/AU… so called “international community”) doesn’t realize that they will face “global south” destiny very soon if something big doesn’t happen and change the direction of humanity drifting towards global catastrophe (wrong way) powered by “wind turbines” of extremely rich and powerful few.

[@joeldwest]

The problem with Crapitalism is that it creates a slave class

[@coracka]

he was paraphrasing orwell...

[@surdzo]

@@coracka most of the time when people paraphrase someone they actually agree with that, so does not matter who he paraphrasing, it is a state of mind ;)

[@coracka]

@@surdzo ok

[@peterhixon371]

I am comparatively green. I am also an eccentric by comparison with every other person that I know. I have not turned my heating on for several years, not because I cannot afford to, although that is a consideration but because I cannot justify heating my drafty old house for the personal comfort of myself, the sole occupant. Most all of the people that I know accept their entitlement to warmth, travel and as much desirable food and cleanliness as they wish to have. They are lucky. By accident of birth they have been born in a country of considerable wealth and, by the needs of the nation’s economy, under all present considerations, they have been able to aspire to an income that gives them a considerable amount of choice. That choice is being eroded for many and expanded for some. It is obvious that that choice will diminish with technology and with the ever changing conditions of our world. In many suppressed nations, that degree of choice that we consider both mundane and our right, is not available to the people to a fraction of that which we currently enjoy. Without levelling up the person who might have to carry his water supply for several miles and whose basic needs and acquisitions are far far below those we consider rights, how can we begin to anticipate any agreement on the greening of our world? Whilst powerful countries foment discord and war in other nations for the benefit of their capitalist desires. Whilst wars give rise to ecological destruction on a grand? scale and governments are owned by the powers that manufacture arms, how is a green agenda even begin to work?

[@shafiyaalgiquadra1105]

Brilliant! Ofcourse it cannot work!

[@ozachar]

The greens problem is assimilating the concept that Green is synonymous with climate change. As if change is necessarily bad. There are so many much more important green environmental causes than "change".

[@BluesManPeich]

Well, the current climate change IS bad, according to the best scientific analyses, and this won't go away with plays on words such as "change". Their real problem is they've sold themselves to capitalism and imperialism, and under such world order the cooperation that is needed to tackle the challenge of reducing GHG emissions in a just manner.

[@raphaelward1711]

when the intro guy says "subversive" i had to laugh, this guy is not

[@kalaupun]

Soviet Communists defeated the Nazis, whose political descendants are protected and promoted by the Greens today. Yanis is making truly spurious equations and conflations here. "I will go soft on the Greens but randomly quote the anarchist anti-Communist Chomsky for some random uncalled for Soviet bashing". OK good for you

[@NedTesco]

Really wish parts of the left had better takes on Ukraine. Only minute or so in and I hear "leading the charge for war in Ukraine" as if there wasn't already an ongoing war after Russia illegally invaded another sovereign country. Makes us look unserious in our politics.

[@lowersaxon]

Mr. Varoufakis: After two minutes he already violently contradicted himself. Find out.

[@RihardsDel]

But when one of the speakers says - greens have not approached the working class. So hasn't DIEM movement. If you ask any working class person in the UK or Europe, they will not know what you are talking about. Same goes with Eastern Europe. Let's say Latvia (a country I come from originally, but now have lived in the UK for the last 13 years, moved away due to financial pressures on family) I can say that DIEM movement stands a bigger chance in winning an election there than anywhere else in Europe. And from there on you could prove that what DIEM stands for works and people from other countries would recognise that. At the moment DIEM wants to bite of more than it can chew and is failing. Andrew Tate's BBC interview (which has no real world impact) has 1000 times more views and traction than the monologues you talk here.

[@brendansherlock6442]

Think about average global temperature, just think about it. How do we calculate average. Now think where is it average and when and how often the recordings are taken. We already know the earth is dynamic, not static geologically, meteologically, hydrologically, it's always changing, always has. Is it possible, you have been duped

[@julianshepherd2038]

Not in Scotland, pal.

[@devonseamoor]

Great to hear of green politics in different countries of Europe. The first of UN's comprehensive Assessment Reports on climate change was released in 1992, in sync with the 17 Goals, adopted by all UN Member States in 2015, as part of the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development which set out a 15-year plan to achieve the Goals. Both are constructs that don't involve outspoken concerns of humanity at large as the basis for these publications. What IS outspoken in these artificial constructs, is a top-down pack of conclusions and scenarios, placing the cause of "trouble in paradise" with its burden, on humanity's shoulders, by means of weaponizing of fear. I think that this plucking of the heartstrings in the common people, causes anxiety (we MUST DO something to save the planet) which implies (blind) obedience to what climate scientists declare to know as facts. That condition holds fear and feverish attempts to correct the disbalance in its folds. I've witnessed this much in Britain, when I lived on that island for 5 years. Consensus reality was strong, due to the tendency in British people, in the countryside, to not think for themselves so much. They tend to believe and obey to authorities, blindly. Looking up to those who have studied at Academia, also members of the British parliament. Since the urge to do research, creating a foundation for a personal point of view is absent, no positive motivation, coming from enthusiasm, with the joy of contribution is formed, you see? Their taking action is fuelled by anxiety, by a sense of wrong doing, feeling the duty to make right what's wrong. And when in all that turmoil, the green parties in politics are corrupted, and cartels don't act on Climate Change for the better, the common people will never pick the fruit of what they perceive as their "labor of love" (the slogan to win more participants in active mode) for the benefit of the climate, and their childrens' future. See how emotions are used to persuade the born sinners to comply, keeping them on their toes forever? It's all pure mindcontrol to me, a hobby of puppetmasters that showed up around the start of the 20th century. When the invention of the microscope showed us the building blocks of life and disease, and the germ theory was adopted as law. And thus, humanity could be manipulated to believe, in a smooth way with words, that it has become the germ that causes Climate Change. Even more problems, but that goes in the direction of eugenics, also founded around the invention of the microscope, another topic.

[@MrBallynally2]

Well said..

[@aerobique]

couldbe, wouldbe, whoopde duh.. "it's all pure mindcontrol to me" that's a common call nowadays, a clear sign of genuine, public disorientation, or even worst forms of ignorance, about even most critical issues is due to stress and media/noiseboverload enforced by the "capitalist ideology", a a social disorder of conflict, where public affairs/ "politics" are managed as a polarized games "competition".... (instead of, say, applying the scientific method, right?),,especially annoying and painful seeing this (obviously justifiable distrust) public disorientation still weaponized so effortlessly against science as a public good in general but especially "climate science" ....of course....let alone ideas of a "common interest", everything gets toxified and turned into a battleground, let alone public ownership/control, even for just basic infrastructure, everything "public health" is a marginalized hot potato at best and mobilized against(aka; what the hell even is is "conservatism"...), gets outright criminalized in case subversion/ignorance and infiltration doesn't lead to the deserved outcome... if it's happening in another people's country's, institutionalized mass murder ("war", "military intervention" and "peace keeping") is always on the table and common practice. [...] sorry for this little random rant, nothing personal of course, greetings and do. not. despair. 🌍🌎🌏✊️

[@SM-df9hm]

Some people brag about sticking with certain ideology, while others bragging about not being ideological. This subject, alone by itself has become a way of wasting personal concentration and a cause for distraction. But of course ideology just like religion is subject to the interpretation of each person/group. For example, the difference between what Jesus did in his time and some rich who consider themselves as Christians (followers of his path) do to America and the world. Should we stick with things that we no longer believe in? In most cases no. Should we change idealogy that still makes good strong sense under tougher circumstances? Not really

[@rhiannonwilliams2521]

I was in complete agreement with Yannis Whatsisname until he came up with completely discredited accusations against China and then I started to doubt myself. How could someone completely taken in by anti- China propoganda be right about the rest of his discourse?????

[@fallenswan1670]

I have basically same view (what you said). But here is my thought on it: Yanis Varoufakis is good example how even brilliant mind can be blind in some spots. We are so fed by "hero stories" and we easily think that there is this heroic good people, and horribly bad people... but reality is, that humans are contradicting (with themselves), and things what humans are facing with, phenomenons etc, they are too very complex. Meaning, that non of us is perfect, and if we would notice in ourselves what we are "blind about" or wrong, then we would not be that any more - we would change what we think of believe, etc (or in many cases: fight for the lie what we want to believe in). For example; I changed several times in my life on my view on things, what I believed earlier, since I found out, that they may not be true or as I thought them to be. But I still cannot know, about what I am wrong about today; if I would, I would change my mind on it. I believe that Yanis is "obsessed" with idea of democracy (although I never heard his definition of "democracy"). This, kind of "cult of democracy", is anti-communist and anti-socialist tool. And while Yanis is very brilliant mind in most of cases, somehow in here he is not. He also used to be reformist for same strange reasons, while he was in simultaneously capable to see structures of today's capitalist societies, and how reformism was not really possible. Now he gave up for those ideas. I think he has similar contradicting believe in "democracy" (I do not know what he means by the word), but also seeing, like in his comments in this video, he sees that being popular is not same than being right. "Democracy" can mean so many things from oligarchy, to rule of majority, or rule of poor people... It can mean so many things, what I won't try to guess what he happen to mean with that meaningless word. But what ever it is, it is dear for him. And it seems for me, that this love for that thing is what is blinding him. I personally see, that we need society (and whole humankind) who live in "reasonable, good way" (English isn't my first language, so accurate description what I mean, is not most easiest thing - especially since there is no good translation for word what I mean, and I can only use word like "reasonable" - with that I mean "not too much, not too little, but fair amount"), society where everyone should be happy or in reasonable position. And if in society majority of people think that left handed should be punished, then majority of people is wrong. Unfortunately there is quite good change that those who own media, can effect in people and their minds, and therefore "implant" bad ideas to others. Meaning, that majority of people is not reliable source for what is good or what should be done (I am from small minority of Sámi people - we cannot ever have majority in any place, since our population is so small. Does that mean, the we should not be heard ever in any question?). I call such state what tries to build such society "socialism". And I do not expect that any society will turn to utopia in one night, nor one year or decade. Not even in a century. Because a) such state won't exist in vacuum, but in world with nations like USA, which try to prevent such project ever been successful. b) humans never build such society, and do not exactly know how to do such, but need try to do it "on move", while it all effects on lives of people. c) conditions of human society are alternated all the time, they are not static and always same, meaning, that society itself change also all the time. What "worked decade ago" may not work now any more (or more accurately: same thing may not be same effect all the time, because some other parts change and they change effect). USSR was not perfect, and was not going to be such for very long time. But it was improving all the time. It improved lot of things inside of its own territory and outside of its own territory - it improved life and conditions of people, without using colonialism or neocolonialism (although GULAG in beginning had similar effect. But they didn't exist very long time period of existence of USSR), in same time, lot of thing were improved in USA or Europe, because of USSR (often fear of revolution), and colonialism was ended in most of parts of world, thanks to USSR. However, it was very militaristic society (because of fear of USA), and there was lot of problems too. Similar for People Republic of China. You cannot just forgot all thing improved, just because "they are not democratic" (what ever it means). So, who would tell all that to Yanis? That outcome is more important, that just good idea - and it goes in both ways. If you achieve many positive and good things, without asking opinion of majority - it is still achieved things. Question is, what was cost, what was possible (and what not) and what can be done next? So it is not binary, where you can only be "1" or "0". And this does not mean, that his critic for greens etc are not true. How I see it, is this: do you go to make decisions (=politics) with your enemy, in game (=system) which rules were made by your enemy. And by enemy, I mean those people who do not want society to be fair and improved to everyone, but who care more about just small elite. I personally do not think, that you can improve things by co-operating with your enemies - it only improves your personal position in the society, and "corrupts" you from fighting for things what you wanted to fight for...

[@jimbob-robob]

​@@fallenswan1670 TLDR

[@blixten2928]

The gentleman is criticising the greens' jumping on the Nato-bandwagon of Putin is a criminal and China oppresses minorities. He concedes that arguments can be made for both (unclear what he means with "criminal") but all this is brought up in the context of the Greens' hypocritical and one-sided focus on the faults of East (so to speak) while ignoring every failing of the West. So, I don't think he's quite guilty as charged.

[@Grafomanokrasto]

@@fallenswan1670 all you need to know about Yanis is that I have NEVER heard him say a good word about USSR. That in my book is a telling sign of a turncoat.

[@rudstoncullen3410]

@rhiannonwilliams2521 There is no way that Yanis is "completely taken in by anti- China propaganda" - he was referring to THOSE who ARE

[@cipmars]

How has Socialism worked in China so far? How well off are the working people there? How clean is their environment?

[@ericchen4549]

It worked great, 70 years from dirt poor to No.1 economy in the world. Eliminated extreme poverty. China turns desert into farms. Travel to China to see for yourself. The difference is We Chinese socialists achieve all this by doing not talking on YT like you guys.😊

[@cipmars]

@@ericchen4549 yea, right. You eliminated extreme poverty and turn desert into farms. :)))) People working into sweat shops and probably the dirtiest polluter out there. Spread your propaganda elsewhere, wu mao!

[@ericchen4549]

@@cipmars yeah right, you should build a country from ground upp by sitting in air-coned office and get paid like Bezos. And power any plants with Solar panels from 1949, otherwise its a failure.

[@cipmars]

@@ericchen4549 no, you should have kids sow shoes for 10 bucks a week.

[@ericchen4549]

@@cipmars Or maybe bombing the shit out your country and have your kids doing that for free.

[@tedn6855]

What happened to green politics? It was never real it is just a cult. How about some old fashioned leftist varoufakis. Drop the totalitarianism of the left and the green cult stuff and concentrate on labour's rights, personal freedom, the economy, and ending corruption and the surveillance state. What leftist or green party stands for any of that?

[@Breakfast_of_Champions]

Yanis' repeated insistence that "Putin" is "criminal" shows how far out of the loop he is. Just like his election result. It's childish and immature on so many levels, makes him completely untrustworthy.

[@GetFochD]

He is, but the Americans are much worse

[@TheChromanoise]

@@GetFochD go fuck yourself. How dare you say I am worse than a war criminal.

[@gallectee6032]

Are you not looking at what is happening in Ukraine? You don't think that's criminal?

[@GetFochD]

@@gallectee6032 ofc

[@Breakfast_of_Champions]

@@gallectee6032 So you think the Russians should have let their historic cities get massacred by the Neonazi regime? Yanis is openly siding with the NATO criminals who have ruined their countries for anglo-imperialism.

[@ranjitkundu7919]

Several things about Yanis & politics.. He is brilliant at his subject, in handling Economy & Finance. And ..At policy prescriptions & adapting to real life.. in reality. His comment on Putin, Other Than complete delusion - was not this... It was either prejudice, or the necessity to publicly signal that, because of the European situation, or his Funding sources - & their diktats to him... to shut up & Say "Putin is WRONG " ❗ OR . he can Forget Funding from his backers for his Election Reform, & Politics program ❗

[@rudstoncullen3410]

There is no problem being at the same time anti-Putin and anti Nato - neither Putin nor Nato has any interest in democracy: but as soon as one criticises one of those one is seen as supporting the other ... very simplistic thinking. Similarly, criticising China does not mean that one supports the current anti-China propaganda being whipped up by the US Neo-Cons and their global vassals ... Nor does criticising the Israeli government make one and anti-semite and so on ...

[@davestorm6718]

@@rudstoncullen3410 Unfortunately, NATO became necessary so the all the Hitlers, Mussolinis, Stalins, Pol Pots, Mao Zedongs and other dictators (Putin being one) are kept in check. It's to prevent wars initiated via unruly governments - basically, both a non-aggression treaty and defense treaty between states that prefer cooperation vs conquest. Funny how the anti-china people were all about trading with a communist country (for cheap labor) before, and enjoying dirt cheap goods for decades (and turned a blind eye to the atrocities committed by the Chinese government on their own people), and now, after years of flooding garbage onto US and other markets, they finally figure out that this was done intentionally (when economists and many others, for over 2 decades, had warned about this). Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

[@DonQuickZote]

Supporting Ukraine isn’t ‘pro war’, it’s allowing them to defend themselves, the greens are entirely right to do this. Diem25’s position of withdrawing the supply of weapons to Ukraine to defend themselves is actually pro the Russian war effort. The war will end in one of two ways: either Russia being defeated or deciding to stop fighting due to the political/economic price being too high to continue the war.

[@basfinnis]

Nonsense.

[@TebeB594]

Or, the third option, Don Quixote got the wrong youtube channel!

[@DonQuickZote]

@@TebeB594 You don't believe in Ukraine being able to defend itself?

[@lynnjohnny01]

@@DonQuickZote You don't believe in Syria being able to defend itself? The US invaded Syria 10 years ago and still illegally occupies 1/3 of Syrian territory and stealing Syrian oil. But you surely would not consider the "uncivilized" Syrians morally suitable for self-defense and self-determination. If you cannot see that Ukraine has already been turned into a proxy state of the US (and its vassal NATO), you are practically blind.

[@lynnjohnny01]

@@DonQuickZote The Ukraine war could have ended a year ago with an internationally-mediated negotiation. But how could the US miss such an opportunity to drag Russia into a prolonged war and weaken its biggest geopolitical rival in Europe? And you are clearly delusional to think that Russia will be defeated, when odds are clearly against the Zelensky government, and to think that Russia is about to collapse due to political/economic price. You probably get your news from BBC and CNN everyday.

[@paulrichards3928]

"The moment people think they are above ideology, they reproduce the dominant ideology" Defne Dalkara Key takeaway. Well put. From my perspective, despite the level of thinking, SDi green, personal or group development correlates closely with all activists. In my experience listening to those involved, with DiEM25; maintain, a Spiral Dynamics, integral, second tier, worldview, and understand, activist pathologies, having grown through this stage of development. Spiral Dynamics: SDi Green: Level of personal or group development. [not green politics] Core value: Relativistic, socio-centric, equality. Paradigm: Community " We become" Worldview: The world is a shared community for the whole of humanity who shares Mother Earth as their home. Life Motto: "I sacrifice myself now to be accepted by the group" Life Theme: Welfare, love, find meaning in life, personal growth and living in harmony with others and with the Earth. Life Philosophy: I feel emotions, therefore I am alive. In essence, everyone is equal. Spiral Dynamics, like all movements, in the 21C, carries those within, with first-tier thinking. No personal affialtion. Environmental activists, often are on this level of thinking: spiraldynamicsintegral.nl/en/green/ DiEM25, thinkers, active in promoting its principles: spiraldynamicsintegral.nl/en/yellow/ spiraldynamicsintegral.nl/en/overview-value-systems/