Diesel Dipper Q&A

[@SVImpavidus]

Probably the most comprehensive explanation and exacting knowledge sharing video we have seen for a long time. We have been going on about fuel return polishing via injection cooling and telling folks to sort their tanks first for ages. You guys just whacked the ball out the grounds with a great video. When we get back to the UK sometime we will be looking at this solution. Sail Safe Guys, Ant, Cid & the pooch crew.

[@francismontocchio9910]

Never come across a more comprehensive and easy to understand explanation of diesel fuel ins-and-outs. Thank you very much!!

[@marine16ltd64]

Great video Dominic as always. Diesel has changed so much and thank you for the opportunity to explain how. As modern engines have got ever more technical the humble diesel quality has got worse. As discussed I look forward to a follow up in the Autumn when we can give some pointers on laying the boat up over winter. Thank you for all the kind comments below. If there are any questions feel free contact us or comment below and we will endeavour help. Have a good summer!

[@CadohaAdventures]

Appreciate all the help Peter and look forward to talking more in the winter time.

[@stevenoble4176]

Amazing! Thank you guys for posting such an informative and helpful video. And absolute respect for not attaching adds and making nothing out of it (apart from receiving a free versions of what we all now want!!!). As always, love your content and your candid delivery.

[@ed_richards47]

Extremely interesting insight into modern diesel fuel and it's weaknesses, etc. Very useful knowledge to have as a boat owner.

[@pmnfernando]

as we colloquially say: that´s a person who knows his shit. nothing like hearing the experts. great presentation!

[@sbuzz5889]

this guy has to sell. his best is bug killer. fuel standards are not always present in countries- re: blowing coal black soot

[@johnpoynton4193]

I never thought I would be interested in diesel fuel, he has great knowledge and even more a knows how to put it over. A learning episode.

[@garyten13]

Perfect presentation, i was just clicking around for fuel polishing, and then i found this. An Incredible system, that you cant really explain from pictures, and they way Peter detailed everything. You should let them put this video on the Diesel Dipper website. I'm shocked how bad modern Diesel has become, and what needs to be done to maintain a healthy fuel system, after all, in the offshore marine environment, your engine is a critical component. Well done folks, a big thumbs up.

[@pataulson]

GREAT video ... very educational for those of us aspiring cruisers! Looks like a great product and I will definitely buy one when I get my boat. Thank you and thanks to Marine-16.

[@grahamatsea3575]

Very interesting talk from the marine 16 director.....I didn't know about their complete fuel treatment product....I'll be buying some.

[@iainlyall6475]

not only did i get two episodes to watch today, i got an excellent discussion on cleaning a fuel tank. thanks.

[@karlmabe1649]

Very well explained product, Its worth saying that living aboard a boat in winter adds to considerable more condensation in stainless fuel tanks aswell

[@thetoolmat8632]

a Must watch! and i will add go on to read the comments of all posted, many replies get into greater detail. definitely sharing this video.

[@Jackanory222]

this was very worthwhile and thanks for publishing this video. Pleased to see the dipper flange being available since most tanks do not have direct bottom of tank access. However a $1000 price tag is pause for careful consideration...as is the space required to fit the device. I've asked them to publish all the dimensions on their website.

[@pauljamison3340]

H37cm W15cm D18cm

[@marine16ltd64]

@@pauljamison3340 We can also supply an elbow instead of the straight hose tail which might help.

[@smulismuli7976]

This was brilliant thanks for sharing. Didn't even know that kind of equipment existed

[@charlesmyhill]

I have learned something this day; thank you.

[@normanboyes4983]

Very well explained covering the key reasons why all diesel fuel presents problems to all users, the challenges for yachtsman with a fuel tank and system that have not been thought through ( or had the aim in mind to keep the tank clean) , together with the usual harsh marine environment and low stock turnover all ‘coalesce’ (see what I did there😉) to make it difficult if not nigh on impossible to recover from bad contamination. Any measure to reduce free water in the tanks has to be a good thing. It is common practice in larger vessels to have a service (or day tank) in addition to bulk storage ranks which helps, but not practical in a small yacht but probably doable 40 foot plus.

[@marine16ltd64]

It was with this in mind I invented the Dipper. On board ship we routinely drained the water out of the service and day tanks every watch. Even after it had been though a centrifugal purifier. The Dipper is an attempt to take this big ship technology and scale it down for a boat. Diesel in a tank has all the same problems whether it's a big tank or a small tank.

[@andrewallen2634]

Just a fascinating and very informative explanation of the dreaded diesel fuel we use today.Well done.

[@xx6489]

Fascinating stuff. And so simply and clearly explained.

[@pacjag]

Very enlightening.

[@rogernorman2621]

Another problem which was not mentioned is that water in the bottom of the tank particularly if it’s salt water, can actually corrode the tank! I had a situation just a few months ago which started out as a drip from underneath the boat. Upon investigation., it was actually fuel leaking through the fibreglass and gel coat! Looking into the problem further, and after removing the cockpit floor to get to the aluminium fuel tank and cutting out an inspection hole, we could see that the bottom of the tank was covered in small areas of corrosion and pin holes. What had obviously happened was that over a period of several years, water at the bottom of the tank had caused the problem which then went on to cause a further problem of fuel building up under the tank and eventually eating its way through the fibreglass to make its escape. This by the way, was a prestige boat and an aircraft standard of aluminium fuel tank!

[@marine16ltd64]

Interesting comments. We supplied a Diesel Drake (which is an automatic Diesel Dipper) to a crew transfer vessel operating on the Wind Farms in the North Sea. It seems the aluminium hull was always cracking in way of the fuel tank so water would get into the fuel and the first they knew was when the engine stopped!. The Diesel Drake gives advance waning that water is leaking into the tank.

[@skunkjobb]

You didn't say what fuel it was but I guess it's diesel oil. Then it sounds very strange that it would eat through fiberglass, I suppose polyester bonded such. There are many boats with fuel tanks in GRP, both for diesel and gasoline. I've had small pools of diesel sit in my bilge for long periods without the slightest softening of the plastic. But no doubt that water corrodes metal tanks. I got a pinhole in a mild steel diesel tank. I cleaned and sprayed the inside with Por 15 tank sealant and it still looks good four or five years later. Removing the tanks would have been hell so I'm glad it was possible to seal it in place.

[@douglasmontgomery6315]

Such a great topic and post, thanks for creating and sharing.

[@whotknots]

Thanks for a brilliant presentation, the diesel dipper impresses me as an excellent invention and addition to a marine fuel system and I have now located the company on the web and saved the link to my address list under "yachts and sailing". It is nonetheless difficult to reconcile stringent environmental standards regarding sulfur levels in diesel with sulfur compounds which are added to petrol as a substitute for tetraethyl lead. With regard to the asphalting issue, marine diesel manufacturers could alleviate that wasteful and ultimately polluting problem by dispensing with common rail injection systems which recirculate fuel. Mechanical 'unit injector' technologies comparable to the system featured on old Detroit two stroke diesels would be a superior system for a number of reasons including simplicity. Simplicity imparts inherent durability and ease of maintenance, particularly in places where sophisticated technical services are often either not readily available or or not at available all, it also provides reliability and far greater tolerance for 'deposits'. Is there any reason the drain point on the Diesel Dipper unit could not be fitted with an automated, solenoid operated valve which automatically discharged a volume fuel equivalent to the capacity of the internal reservoir within the unit to an external receptacle at predetermined times? The reservoir could be fitted with an alarm to ensure it was emptied before overflow every week or so and constructed in such a way that it could be be easily removed and uncontaminated diesel returned to a tank. Speaking from experience as a bush pilot the volume of air within a fuel tank bears a directly proportional relationship to the quantity of water which can condense from it onto the exposed interior surface area of the tank for a given level of humidity. For this reason aircraft fuel tanks are kept as full as possible as consistently as possible and the system is checked daily for water at specific drain points carefully installed for the purpose. Many people might be surprised as to how much water sometimes accumulates in fuel tanks over just one night and all these practices are good preventive measures which are not difficult to incorporate to a daily routine and can provide additional benefits such as minimizing corrosion for some materials. If tanks began to incorporate bottoms faceted so they naturally incline towards a central location, any water in the 'unusable fuel' space would naturally gravitate to the outlet employed by the Diesel Dipper and that could significantly improve functionality for the device. Perhaps the company could offer a service for fabricating fuel tanks as an additional aspect of product diversity and in so doing optimize them to that end.

[@marine16ltd64]

Thank you for your comment. Common rail systems are necessary to enable a reservoir of fuel to allow the use of electronic injectors which operate at extremely high pressures high pressures to reduce the combustion temperatures in the cylinders and therefore emissions particularly NOx. These injectors are operating in extreme conditions and require cooling, I have seen fuel tanks become warm from the returning fuel and often coolers are fitted to prevent this. We do have a fully automatic Diesel Dipper. It is called the Diesel Drake® (I think inventing a product is actually easier than figuring out what to call it 😊 ). However the Drake is an expensive piece of kit as being fully automated it has to have quite a number of fool proof safety systems incorporated. Your comments of fuel tank design are spot on. Water accumulation is cumulative, sometime only a few ml a day, but it builds up of course to a big problem unless it is removed. That is the purpose of the Dipper, to remove the water as it is formed on a continuous basis preferably when the vessel is underway and the contents at the bottom of the tank are sloshing about and will eventually become within reach of the Dipper suction tube and be removed.

[@peterstarkey1360]

Brilliant , really well received & informative...good stuff & yes a good product will always sell it self & will be a pleasure to give back up service to...cheers

[@bdphourde]

Wait! What! Where's Hank? Did you send him off to the pub to double-dip while you edified everyone about a new bug that's going around? Clever, as usual!

[@leeturnbull2759]

Informative, interesting that the oil companies suggest you don’t store diesel for more than six months. Will check out the website as my diesel has been sitting in my tank for 19 months due to COVID………😒

[@sbuzz5889]

nice try on cadohas part- but i belive you can build a washer -water/ fuel separator/ add bug killer yes. wash fuel to spare container .and drain petcock to trash. open inspection plate clean/ suck /flush/ replace fuel with full tank as ur girl said .and remain full if as soon as possible make routine on any haul out.

[@CadohaAdventures]

There are indeed many ways to skin a cat. We’ve had this fitted for two seasons now and we’ve never had clogged filters since, just flick a switch and it’s cleans out the bottom of the tanks. It’s not cheap, and I’m sure if you’re mechanically minded that you could put something similar together, but for us, this has been a real peace of mind modification ☺️👌🏼⛵️

[@AndyKrisch]

Very informative. Unfortunately, unless I'm missing something, the products mentioned do not seem to be available in the US.

[@marine16ltd64]

Thank you. We are looking for US distributors, if you have any in mind, please send their details and we will make contact. [e-mail].

[@MiQBohlin]

Aye m8’s, excellent way of telling the dirty diesel story! 👍

[@LeeShoresLazyJacksandLunches]

That was excellent. Very informative.

[@man-with-handle]

I don't about diesel bugs but Carly must have been getting worried about what bugs were hibernating in that beard. Wow! ...... doesn't he look so much younger! Keep up the great work guys and don't forget we need to see lil Hank too .........

[@chriszanf]

The beginning was castaway to a cast member of Star Trek!

[@garrystacey7018]

Very interesting video thank for sharing 👍

[@martinserieys5375]

I find this boat very pretty but I think the décor would be even more beautiful if the sofa covers were redone

[@peterferguson3374]

Really well discussed and presented. I enjoyed the technical perspective on what it did and why, I even went and looked at the shop to see if I should get one. For me, it’s too expensive. I know the cost versus benefit argument but I don’t mentally reserve that spend on an ‘engine attachment’. Shame as it looks like it’s a sensible very well made product..

[@marine16ltd64]

Thank you for your comments. Pricing is always difficult but we make it to last. Fully fabricated in Stainless Steel in the UK (Stroud) it will give many years service and worth mentioning it does not need any continuous ongoing consumable filters. Because the Dipper is cleaning the bottom of the tank the inline RACOR filters to the engine will last longer too.

[@sailingaphrodite4189]

I'd be interesting to understand how the Diesel Dipper works when a boat is yawing, pitching and rolling, and how it is different to a Racor or Separ type filter.

[@sebastiandeangelis6313]

Very informative. Thanks

[@grahamatsea3575]

I suppose if you have a stainless steel tank having water in the bottom will help corrosion, so in theory this dipper system will prevent a big complex job of replacing the tank.

[@omarkn4371]

very informative!

[@CadohaAdventures]

Peter is a very knowledgeable man, certainly on the subject of fuel.

[@mrangry01]

If I understand this correctly, the dipper simply separates the fuel and water. If so why not just have a drain cock at the bottom of the tank where you can drain off regularly any water

[@felixfeleus510]

An alternative to the Diesel Dipper should be to use GTL diesel or HVO100 diesel from Neste instead of normal diesel. Both claim that there are no such problems as with modern normal diesel.

[@marine16ltd64]

Good comment. That is correct, both fuels are better than the concocted diesel we have now although a fuel tank with GTL or HVO will still have serious water condensation problems which can give rise to Diesel Bug and reduce the lubricant qualities in the fuel. GTL is probably better as HVO still has degradation and deposit issues.

[@AndyUK-Corrival]

It seems like a great solution but at around £800 an expensive one. Andy UK

[@CadohaAdventures]

Not gonna lie, it’s not cheap. Would I have paid £800 for something like this? I’m not honestly sure, it’s hard to say, I would have likely needed to see some seriously compelling evidence that it wasn’t some snake oil I was buying. Seeing how clean my samples of fuel are getting each time I use it, yes, I would whole heartedly buy one now, but anyone reading this, know that I was given this for free, so please factor in some bias towards my feelings, it cost me nothing, but I do love it.

[@AndyUK-Corrival]

@@CadohaAdventures Hi I hadn’t twigged that you got it for free but I did wonder. Fair play to you I’m sure it is a great bit of kit and with the troubles you have had I’m sure it will give you peace of mind over time. I am probably jinxing myself but I have not had diesel bug issues so far but then my tank is very small. I have two preliminary filters right by the tank then the one on the engine. I was going to ask how is the dipper better at removing water than something like a Racor that separates water in the bowl? Hope you are having fun, are you still in West Country or now in the Scillies? Andy UK

[@CadohaAdventures]

The dipper takes water from the very bottom of the tank, so it nips the problem in the bud by removing the catalyst for the bug to grow. The racnor (which we also have) separates fuel and water that’s made it into the fuel pick up, which doesn’t take care of what’s going on at the bottom of the tank. This is my understanding anyway.

[@AndyUK-Corrival]

@@CadohaAdventures Ah yes I get what you are saying. But if I was to run a pipe off the bottom of the tank, through an inline filter and to a pump and then to a Racor and back to the tank the Racor would catch the water the same as the dipper and could be run for long periods of time too. I guess I am wondering if a Racor does as good a job of separating the water but just needs to be on a take off from the bottom of the tank. I’m just trying to think of a cheaper way of achieving the same result. Andy UK

[@absabs3811]

Without trying to be presumptuous, have you had that lump on your neck checked out?

[@CadohaAdventures]

Yes, I’ve had it for about 15 years now, it’s kinda growing on me 😬

[@absabs3811]

@@CadohaAdventures 🤣 just checking, I guessed you would have noticed but you never know. 👍 Good videos btw just come across them 😊

[@davidwarnes5158]

If you cannot get past the baffles , how does this get that fuel to remove it. I have lots of experience on sailing yachts with bug, the crap end having to sort out stopped engines , As in many cases it's the tube coming from the tank, that gets blocked , Evan the isolating valve . I understand it doesn't grow in water but in the layer between the water and the fuel. In 99% of cases you don't drain it out of a valve , If you have the bug this unit won't stop the fuel pick up picking up the fungus . With this very large filter system, great if you have a 1000 l8tr tank. But just as easy to put in a inline filter on the lift hose , 10 mins to change in an emergency. Bio chemicals are great if the tank is new to keep it under controle . But does not clean old tanks. And what you buy at a pump is probably the issue , in winter the tanks of a fuel dock sit and make the bug . It's not easy

[@tarivard]

Fuel Right will clean tank walls and remove and prevent the sludge. It’s far more advanced than biocide.

[@davidwarnes5158]

@@tarivard what will stop it clogging , fuel tanks have openings at the top to draw the fuel, do when the hoses clog you undo them remove and clean, This thing is hard wired as such to the bottom of the tank, so before the filtration it can block, and to clear it , you have to drain it. And if you have drained to install surely you may as well just clean it , spray around the baffles , after that filter the fuel you put in, watch delos when you fuel put it through a filter No issue , keep it out is the best solution.

[@tarivard]

@@davidwarnes5158 there are obviously two approaches to this problem. Mechanical and Chemical - The unit they describe is really another approach to the use of coalescing technology. This approach is taken using various technologies from centrifuge purifiers to coalescers to water separation membranes (filters). I think having a unit like this on board is a positive component to fuel management as controlling water is a significant component to keeping the sludge development at bay. However, diesel fuel and bio-blends can hold enough water to allow microbial development despite these measure. Microscopic films form on the tank walls as the foundation to biofilm development. I won't bore you with the microbiology of it all. Biocides can be effective to some degree but they are consumable and if used incorrectly (which is the majority of the time), they can actually make the problem worse. Fuel Right technology is designed to scrub the existing films from the tank walls and it them lays up a coating which protects the tank from developing these microscopic films. The problem areas are typically weld seams where biological films and metallurgical factors play a role in microbially influenced corrosion (MIC) formation. Fuel Right was developed to remove these films and lay up a microscopic coating to hinder MIC. So...baffles and what to do about it. When the films are dissolved, it does release contaminants (insolubles) and water which can be removed with the dipper unit or some other mechanical device or water separation filtration however, the coating then prevents further film development in these inaccessible areas and keeps your tank clean. The dipper (or other) can then do its job removing free water when its comes in through condensation, delivery or vent tubes and the biofilms do not form even in the presence of water. This is a proven technology with 25 years of research. I have used it for the past 10 years on my boat and it has cleaned up my system when I initially starting using it and I have had ultra clean tanks and fuel ever since. I have not changed my fuel filter in 3 years.

[@davidwarnes5158]

@@tarivard a normal pre filter removes the water, what about the sludge blocking your new system before it can work. Not putting dirty fuel in the tank , with a simple filter in a funnel works , Not changing a filter in 3 years , wow my car has one every year . Do you change the oil. ? How much does your system cost , Using the boat also keeps it clean, not leaving it half full. Baltic countries suffer more than us , colder. Greece,Italy,Turkey,Egypt, many smaller places have dirty fuel, so filter it first , keep the tank clean.

[@tarivard]

@@davidwarnes5158 I change my oil probably every 100 hours or less as I sail in a seasonal climate so it's done every year. I also use an ounce of Fuel Right in my oil as it has de-sludged the engine and the corrosion coating protects my oil pan. Diesel oil acidifies with use. If you sail in Greece, they have a product there called Diesel Crystal. Their technology is incredible. When the boat is in storage, I keep my diesel tank full to avoid as much condensation as possible.

[@sgttaylor1]

I wonder if Diesel cars get the bug also??

[@shanevillis4079]

Yes, I had deisel bug in my Pajero fuel tank.

[@sgttaylor1]

@@shanevillis4079 hi you are the fist I have ever hurd of the bug in a car if you don't mind which country are you from just wondering if it is a damp place or hi humidity area

[@shanevillis4079]

@@sgttaylor1 Hey mate, I'm on the mid east coast of Australia

[@sgttaylor1]

@@shanevillis4079 wow some distance from the UK where I live the Internet makes the world so small lol is it very humid where you live in Yorkshire where I'm from it is rain or sun nothing in-between in summer

[@tarivard]

yes - when Europe adopted B7 biodiesel, it became a big problem for car owners developing sludge in their fuel systems.

[@tonydeacon7937]

John edmunds