Killing Off Characters with Jack Covell

[@TR-pk6sq]

Ok can we get some Matt Colville like campaign recap for Brennan's 10 year game?? It sounds dope as hell.

[@sparrowhawk4641]

“Resurrection tends to create new religions” Kristen Applebees: ah yes, tell me more about that

[@OjoRojo40]

"Even players that say things like 'I want death to be a possibility' are kind of being vague and missing the point. They want the feeling of danger. They probably don't want their characters to die (or, at worst, they want death to be an inconvenience). They surely don't want a game so lethal that they have a character dying every session. Here's an experiment: The next time that a player says 'they want a game where death is a real possibility', ask them what percentage of games that they think the game should include their character dying, and whether they think that resurrection should be freely available".

[@xadielplasencia3674]

@@OjoRojo40 I think You are only thinking of extremes

[@OjoRojo40]

@@xadielplasencia3674 What is too extreme?

[@xadielplasencia3674]

@@OjoRojo40 Im trying to Say that players are not "missing the point" when they say they want the possibility of death. Is just that they are not saying that all they want is death, they just want stakes

[@OjoRojo40]

@@xadielplasencia3674 ? That's exactly what I wrote in my original comment. "Even players that say things like 'I want death to be a possibility' are kind of being vague and missing the point. They want the feeling of danger".

[@drgorey]

Listening to this and going "Oooh that's and awesome idea I should write that down and steal it for my own game" every 2 minutes.

[@kiiiiikkkkiiiii]

Why do I feel like the editor(s) are secretly in love with Brennan à la Love Actually? The shot sometimes stays on him during Jack's entire answer and I end up getting distracted from what Jack is saying because I'm like...why is this lingering so long on Brennan..he's just trying to drink his coffee...

[@andylygnos7693]

Can you blame them?

[@mindhackz]

@@andylygnos7693 Yes

[@Nikomuth]

I think it’s a live switching system gone slightly wrong. It seems specifically to cut to who isn’t talking. Which makes me think that an automated system was supposed to cut to whoever was talking and some inputs got switched around.

[@gabbytaylor280]

OMG who edited this! I really love this show but the camera cuts this episode are killing me! Why are you focusing on the person that isn’t speaking and what is with the pan through all of the cameras every time you switch. I can’t believe that I just didn’t notice this in the last episodes. The content is top notch though. I love how Brennan communicates with his guests. He’s so inviting a knowledgeable and hospitable. So much love.

[@jacobdavis6604]

I normally having these going in another window while I do something else so I'm not looking too closely at what's actually going on on-screen, but now that you mention, there are some rough choices here.

[@FunnyAnimatoFilms]

I suspect it might be live switching.

[@mac_sour]

i came back to these and honestly they're much more ingestible as an audio only experience in the background.

[@adlerofrowe9224]

They're just sitting there. Just listen to it.

[@TCHcardinal]

@@adlerofrowe9224 why have 3 different camera angles then?

[@TheTrueTerrydactyl]

Ooooh more DnD tips from Dimension20 As an aspiring DM, i love these videos :D

[@simongc97]

I've been running a campaign for two years now with a group that was, at least back when we started, mostly new players. One thing that proved hard at the beginning was wildly varying levels of player-to-character investment. Two of the five players made it clear they were attached to their characters and would find it a detriment to their enjoyment if the characters they worked hard to build were killed off. Two of the others wanted brutal, nail-biting combat, and would happily roll up a new character if things went south. My compromise was that, all else being equal, monsters would prefer to focus on the more death-friendly players, and so far it's worked better than I'd honestly expected; we've had five PC deaths in the two years and none of them were the players that are invested, but I've managed to still give them the feeling of mortal danger many times over that period. I found it very hard at times to keep the main danger on the danger junkies without sometimes making it seem illogical, and it took me a long time to realize that really didn't matter much. Sometimes as DMs we get caught up so much in making the enemies' actions in combat make sense that we forget many players straight up don't care about that. I let enemies act differently with some characters than others, and on the rare occasions my players notice they shrug it off because they recognized it gave them all the combat experience they wanted.

[@sparrowhawk4641]

48:10 Turned into a WHAT Also, a concept: ending a dead character’s arc. Like including the solution of a mystery and remembering that the person who fought for it will not be there to see it So it’s sorta sad but still

[@GriefingGoblin]

brUh, this has been the most insightful and helpful podcast so far. Changed my view as a long time DM. Thanks a lot!

[@tonycream2948]

People have already said it below but the editing made this one the one that I just listened to and didn't watch, were you testing some new tech at the time? All the same, loved it as much as the others and the info is so rich and valuable!

[@VBadBaboon]

I love this idea of using random tables as the core mechanic of a campaign, I would love to know more about that

[@ompatel187]

If you’re on the PC’s side, then why the hell did you say “I’m gonna kill that dog”. Checkmate, gamers

[@MLDeS100]

That campaign sounds awesome

[@tremkl]

“The shine” argument really is why I have a hard time enjoying a lot of action sequences in movies. My brain often just assumes the heroes will live and the villains will lose, and so the stakes often feel weirdly lower than social interactions between characters.

[@FlutesLoot]

You both rock and I love to hear old friends talk D&D!

[@MrTombombodil]

Honestly, having your players create characters in the world that could be their replacement PCs is so huge and important if you want death to be on the table for your game. Because not only does it smooth the transition of character death to new character, it really mentally prepares the players for the possibility of their character dying. Basically once a player has completed creating the concept for a backup character, on some level they've internalized the possibility that their current character may die.

[@josh-cz3ey]

I love the idea of different settings, in the same world/universe, but having similar elements, but also having characters who have a longer life span be present for multiple campaigns. I've had a druid NPC at 1st level be in and out of the beginning of my campaign; my PCs travelled through time (with a time wizard/warlock with a time machine; also a reoccurring character) met that druid at a higher level hundreds of years later.

[@bismuthcrystal9658]

Before you said it, i *shouted,* "DITERLIZZIIIIII!" I'm not super into visual art, but Tony DiTerlizzi and Eyvind Earle, i just adore. DiTerlizzi had such an impact on me. He was the reason i was like, "Oh, Magic: The Gathering seems cool..." as a kid, because i adored that beautiful fairy tale, playful but soulful art of his from Mercadian Masques/VI. And then i got into D&D and Planescape and found him again and just... YES. Wonderful weirdness. Showing how fantastical 'normal' parts of the setting were, and just being goddamned gorgeous. I was hooked.

[@hotaruasmaria7504]

oof, i saw the heartbreak in the eyes of one of my players as they faced an accidental awakening of some treant like creatures. i narrated the seconds of the realization that two of the npc allies she had met realizing themselves that it was over for them. the player was like, is there nothing i can do? I just got this new patron, like is there anything. So i had them roll three sets of percentile. Not explaining i was going to take the two lowest rolls and subtract them for a total to determine failure vs success in that instance while having them explain what they did. They chose divine intervention and at level 9, got a total of 7. It was, literally me trying not to cry of happiness for them while they were wiping tears from their eyes. Meant a lot to them. Changed the whole dynamic between the three for the rest of this campaign and the second and third chapters that pertain to the campaign.

[@BlackShadow1991]

Currently, I am more inclined to tell a story vs. playing the game, and by that I mean I like to craft safety nets for my players, so I don't screw up and murk their characters two sessions in. Hell, I ran a Pathfinder campaign with the Eternal template which gives the PCs immortality. But, well, nevermind! The Goblin Campaign sounds super fun and it was another great guest :D

[@Zelmel]

Holy shit this entire discussion has helped me so much for a campaign I was planning and how I wanted to make avenues for expansion of the story beyond the most basic level 1 type stuff.

[@The.MrFish]

This seems like a gm player therapy session and is amazing

[@ouroboros_1355]

God Dammit, I love what he is describing for his Goblin Campaign, It hurts me inside knowing I'll probably never find a DM willing to play a game where player motivation drives the story forward, I've come to the point where I rarely have character motivation, because I know it's not going to matter in the campaign :c

[@spudsbuchlaw]

Dawg, you need to get into the OSR It's all about player motivation

[@tacnomel2591]

DM

[@ethanfisk6710]

I always think of it as throwing on a "gimmick", but adding a unique element of atmosphere to a campaign can do a lot to diversify both my tones and settings. I'm gearing up to do a one-shot in a western style setting of mine called Hope Springs, and just having a unique element can do so much to spur both how I and the players think about the world. I had a party who stumbled inadvertantly onto a crime scene, and that led to the development of what was basically my world's version of Interpol so I could have them travel to other places and continue to have the jurisdiction to investigate. Sometimes a general flavor can lead to some surprisingly deep development...

[@Slimstudio]

this helped me out a lot, I'm also an artist who wants narrative significance. Most people around me didnt really understand that, so its nice to kno wthere are others out there.

[@leodelgadocaula]

I had two PC's dying recently. The first one died after a battle, trying to rob by himself a place that he knew was dangerous. He was in a path to something awesome and died in such a stupid way... The other PC died because of miscalculation and miscomunication during a climatic battle against a final boss. It was powerful and tragic. It's sad because they both had really great plots going on. But talking to the players afterward I calmed myself down. I had stated many times about the finality of death in my world and had been understood, aparently. They have new characters now and we are getting to know them. But, man... it was hard to kill them off. RIP Juliano Veríssimo. FUCK YOU Gluggi Trinket. Now I have prepared death scenes and extra characters along some of the players. I don't want anymore of them to die, but if they do we will be ready.

[@space.axolotl]

33:23 time itself stopped so Jack can think about his question a bit longer

[@traveler3884]

Dimension 20 is awesome!

[@mdtexeira]

Brennan talking about how there were dozens of way for Jack's character to avoid dying, but chance just kept stopping it reminds me of the Extra Credits video on the foundations of World War 1.

[@smartalec1616]

What is up with the camera switching? It is distracting when it quickly switches multiple times and then it focuses on the non-speaking person

[@ericlara1266]

I felt the same way only 7mins in and the editing is driving me crazy! Hire me as an editor please lol.

[@c14455]

I was just about to complain about that. What happened?

[@lancestoll2704]

I don't think I would have noticed if you hadn't said anything AND NOW I CAN'T IGNORE IT! CURSE YOU!

[@EpherosAldor]

Yeah, it's not that hard: When Jack is speaking, talking about something at length, use his camera. When Brennan answers and contributes to Jack's information, or Jack is responding to something Brennan says but not at length, use the front camera. When Brennan starts asking questions or goes on at length with an expounded response, use Brennan camera. This happened last time with Siobhan. Watching this is so unnerving.

[@Daggeira]

What's the point in having a video version at all if you aren't watching the reactions of the other person anyway? I feel like a single, fixed angle would be the mpst effective, personally, which actually negates a lot of the _need_ for an editor in the first place.

[@buckmills4159]

Oh my god that goblin trouble campaign sounds amazing.

[@passdoutcouchpotatos]

Yea as someone with no "Minds Eye" I had to say it doesnt really come into the playing or running of games

[@dn272]

This is a crossover I did not expect, hyper light drifter is an amazing game, the artstyle is one of it's biggest strengths.

[@cohort29]

The producer had to have mixed up the camera buttons. Jack was talking for 5 minutes with the camera on Branen.

[@cohort29]

Yep, happened in the opposite direction right after. Brennan talking for minutes with the camera on Jack.

[@Skiiggz]

One time i ended up creating a dnd mcu where each adventure would run side by side with each other so when we ended one we would start another that was happening at the same time

[@littleghost4626]

21:48 brennan discovers the roving vs stationary bandit theory of state building via dnd

[@mattboy1994]

I love these shows but the vision mixing needs work. Makes me want to listen and not watch but it’s an easy fix so please think about it CH!

[@Daggeira]

It's a podcast. That's how they're _supposed_ to be consumed, to be fair.

[@mikegould6590]

This episode felt like coming home. I prep very little because of the time constraints (and let's face it: player chaos basically nerfs prep anyway). - I spoke to my players about collaborative world building. - I don't "kill characters" - I arbitrate their decisions. The dice and their decisions kill characters. - Speaking of which, I roll dice openly. That way the players take their decisions (mostly) more seriously. - I believe in running a "living world". In other words, sharks don't care what level you are when you go swimming. There's zero guarantee that "the mountains" are " a 4th-6th level region". The world is what it is. - I have a hard time running pre-written adventures because of time, so I improv and home brew a LOT. - The players enjoy my games because they have agency and I draw from their background interviews (I don't accept written backgrounds. I interview a player for 10 minutes and ask a series of questions. The answers to which tend to inform their characters better than a written narrative they'll forget in two sessions) - I tend to run a game with horror elements, and especially body horror. Ask me about "The Hunters" some time... >:) - I have zero issue adding weird technologies to a campaign world to make the players question the history of the world. Awesome. LOVED this episode.

[@steegen101]

I know I'm 3 years late, but... what's The Hunters?

[@ignacio3460]

I'm watching this while working my A/V related job and seeing that hit to the video at 33:25 gave me a strange anxiety

[@bonusactionheroes]

I used to spend more time prepping than playing but over the years I’ve brought it right down so it’s much more manageable.

[@bismuthcrystal9658]

I love how fantasy names really highlight how bullshit English is. I keep hearing the name of that 10-year campaign. And i have *no* idea how it's spelled. It could be any of these: Eridane Eredane Eridain Eridainne Aradein Aradeyn Aradeyne Or like, any chimera of those. There'd be too many to list. And probably more reasonable options besides. Just amuses me.

[@ianbyrne465]

Pheirodayin

[@imgaytptk]

1:34 to whenever Matt stopped looking at Breenan so creepily

[@silveredbullet802]

It's much better for the 2 person camera only to be operating. Nevermind the individual cams

[@angelalewis3645]

Great conversation!

[@hayleybooks93]

Does anyone have recommendations on how to run a game like Goblin Trouble? Like resource hubs to find maps, towns, random encounters, cool weapons, NPCs, stuff like that? I’d love to run a campaign like that but I’ve never DM’d before!

[@baronkimble5378]

Amazing info and advice!

[@gt123indefatiguability]

I like the idea of a sci-fi school where everyone is immortal. The actual stakes that they face are getting expelled, which in the game would basically be death, because that character leaves the game. It's the same stakes but feels less mean

[@minastone155]

Less mean you say, but the level of horror that invokes -I’d rather a place where death is just a natural part of life rather then strictly a punishment. But that’s me

[@mattbrammeier8938]

In relation to the topic at roughly 20 minutes in (submitting to the rule of an evil tyrant), Brandon Sanderson did a fantastic job of exploring this in his Mistborn Era 1 trilogy.

[@Eternal_Fae]

Hi, I just wanted to let you know there's a low quiet electronic hum to the audio. It doesn't ruin the podcast but it is noticeable; it's been present for the past few episodes. There's a few reasons this is happening, I'd recommend lowering the gain (about 1-2 dB lower) at the audio interface/mic, if that doesn't fix it then it might be a wire that needs checking or replacing. It's unlikely to be background noise. I know most people probably won't notice or just aren't bothered by it, I have sensory issues so it's something I know I'm more sensitive than most

[@dago6410]

5:35 - i really want a visualisation of that

[@lordkanti8260]

Why is it cutting away from who’s talking 🤣 🤣

[@dimension20show]

Subscribe and ring the bell to catch all new episodes and other surprises! Come hang with Brennan on our Discord! Sign up for DROPOUT: bit.ly/2KOHLyr Not in in CANADA, AUSTRALIA, NEW ZEALAND or the U.S.? Sign up HERE: bit.ly/2OiNNoP

[@zachnoland155]

I feel like I need to send this to my dm bc he keeps throwing deus ex machinas into the mix bc every grunt fight is putting us on death saves before we even get a turn. Rolling a nat 20 death save didn't even feel good bc I know I'm just gonna go down to the next grunt that looks at me

[@tavitafish]

Western fantasy is so much fun. Even tho I died a couple times

[@jordansandoval7097]

As a person that is presently making multiple ttrpgs, I’m basically swimming in prepwork

[@justbeyondthecornerproduct3540]

As an editor, I gottttttta ask, what's with the three cuts, just while Brennan is saying the word "Freeing"? 7:57 for reference.

[@davidtobias6893]

I thought that was Adam Freidland at first. What a crossover that would be

[@Xonikz]

39:02 is the point related to the title

[@midwesternpickle]

I want to know so much more about Goblin Trouble. I would pay real life money for a 1 pager or small booklet on running that type of campaign.

[@uvoltesapestiejszakaban1899]

Google: "the dirt cheap sandbox". Thank me later.

[@davidgrant5936]

the cuts at 36:12 are killing me

[@WhatsUpGazpacho]

Hey person who cuts the 3 different camera angles together, please can you include the stuff like the Aladdin geni thing and not jump cut between these two when only one is speaking? Aside from that, these videos are rad

[@GuadalupeSandavol-cn8rk]

Their always in the alley way stalking and actings shat out Jacky boy 😮

[@koboldprime2257]

21:00 Literally how feudalism was born.

[@zap7737]

Brennan said Noblesse Oblige and my Genshin ears perked up lmao

[@coolname-x7f]

What the hell was happening at 33:25?

[@jakewarman7277]

Wow I want goblin troubles as a whole random gin campaign give me it

[@Puffymcstuff]

Brennan Lee Mulligan = Wordsmith

[@tonyterrifies3959]

I'm going to be honest, I've been searching all over online, looking through GM tips videos w/ Matt Mercer, Matt Colville, Satine Phoenix, all of these videos looking for a very specific answer. People say that railroading isn't that great, or it feels bad. But for me, a person who usually DMs for all new players, Railroading is generally the way to go. The players don't stall as often or spin their wheels, so long as they know what they're supposed to be doing, and especially if you give them some sort of stake in the situation.

[@acm4bass]

So there are many different kinds of games and people who play them. I was on a facebook group that specialized in one shots, in a one shot you have one game session to tell the story. In such a situation you may have agency to choose your actions, but to complete your mission you usually need to accomplish 2-4 tasks in that session. So a session might be Gather the group- set out find a minor encounter- find a non combat encounter - find the main venue- clear the main goal. This also works well in a new group or new players just to test if they will like it. But- Then you have groups that consistently play and they have goals for their character and multiple session will ensue.

[@ravencros]

Instead of a railroad I litter rollercoasters all over and if they want to ride the ride they can, otherwise they can sandbox as much as they want.

[@Coltain476]

What rules set is used for Eredane? It doesn't sound like 3.5 or 5e. Anyone know?

[@Silverhawk100]

If you are having trouble killing your PCs, my recommendation is to play a system or campaign where death is pretty trivial and expected. Like Paranoia.

[@FlashRave]

can we get a copy of Jack's tables?

[@rpgdream9700]

for real im sure the camera operator is doing there best.......... but yo cmon show us the person whos talking

[@steegen101]

God I wanna run a Goblin Trouble type game

[@michaelfels4742]

I think this is a live switched multi cam shoot with 3 locked off cameras, so the “editing”/visuals are destined to have jarring moments due to the intrinsic nature of the switching format. Jarring visuals take away from their great discussion as the director simply can not know what camera angle to go to as it is a natural convo and not a script. The director can tell the switcher to go to camera A but then the talent does something visually off and now camera A is unusable, so the switcher is forced to quickly jump to camera B (wide) as a safety then can either try to fall back to Camera A when it becomes viable again or by jumping to camera C (reverse angle) despite sometimes the talent only listening to the other person. •Drinking coffee while interviewing also detracts from the interview as it makes the talent look over worked or even nervous and further more it probably complicates things for the switcher/editor in terms of the visuals. •I love CH and Dimension 20 and only add to the small chorus of commenters regarding the jarring visuals as a call for CH/D20 to fix this problem by either actually editing the show or getting another director/switcher/editor & no matter what to remove the coffee from the equation. (Yes, I work in film but you don’t need a film degree or industry experience to know improvements could be made to the visuals). Edit: My edits to this comment were spelling/grammar corrections.

[@carlm7375]

Is this also a podcast? If not....can it be?

[@nofskiepatofskie]

It is :) it's on Spotify!

[@remimaloney2028]

Easy to find with Podcast Addict

[@MsDadadum]

Love the content but the unmotivated camera cuts are killing me

[@johnpettus5874]

Is there a reason the camera is always on the person who is not speaking? Some reaction shots are OK, but this is just weird.

[@doctapanda_]

Is that a hint of a darker themed new Dimension 20 campaign? Brandon was talking about how having a game on a railroad is fine and all but not really having any stakes kind of detracts from the awesomeness of rolling a nat20 and while yes, the show has the Box of Doom to up the stakes a bit, it seems like most of the campaigns are easygoing for the most part (which I assume is for show run-time, production value, etc, and allows the PCs to goof around) but I think it'd be really cool to have a high stakes game in the next setting! Maybe not a true one-shot game, but a game where every half-baked action the PCs try to pull in the narrative will have a cost and if they aren't really, REALLY careful, things can go oh so terribly wrong (right).

[@jatfew1200]

Did you predict A Crown of Candy?

[@AnimeNPC.]

For me , Death is always on the table. If adventuring wasn’t dangerous everyone would do it . If you went into LoTR or GoT knowing death doesn’t exist and everyone will be fine , there is no stakes.

[@Jessie_Helms]

I think an interesting point about how they had a lawful evil character sorta forcefully take charge is that different leadership style are needed in different scenarios. Full on communism is needed in a small tribalistic, especially survival scenario- I’m off hunting, you’re gathering, Joe is reenforcing the walls, we all share the food equally. A dictator is needed in crisis- a fight is no time for voting. Rome is a great example of how sometimes the whole system needs to be side stepped to save the whole. In general democracy is better, in general representative republics are better. But to say a small village being harassed by literal monsters needs to have a town council, elected mayor, and whoever is most persuasive wins would just result in the town being ruined.

[@TranScripting]

My only disappointment is that "Goblin Trouble" didn't turn out to be about being goblins.

[@GuadalupeSandavol-cn8rk]

❤ u Jacky boy Ur baby mama Tell jack jack mama lives him Gina

[@forrestreed4238]

Can i buy "Goblin Trouble"?

[@DWandtheenablers]

Wow. I'm dizzy from the cuts. An example is,.. from 36:36, there's about a dozen cuts in a few seconds. I'm gonna barf 🤢🤮🤮🤮

[@krimzonghost1987]

It's still debatable whether the Likes on the video have surpassed the amount of times Jack says "like" in the video itself. lol. That being said, awesome interview. This was very helpful to someone like me who struggles with running prewritten campaigns.

[@urktheturtle2988]

beep, I wuv you.

[@cyberhonk2999]

HEART MACHINE??

[@AndreyShu]

I tend to just find free battlemaps from internet and building my campaign around it.

[@kaiandresrussomunne5319]

I'm not gonna lie i got in the vid cause d&d (obviously ) but also that handsome Jacky boy uwu

[@alexmonroy1347]

i know this show rolls in los angeles but this is too much yellow, captain

[@ItsaChrispy]

You guys accidentally discovered how OSR games are supposed to play.

[@FlimsyRanger]

This editing was... very odd

[@JakeSpank83]

FUUUUUUUUUcck

[@OjoRojo40]

This is a VERY WEAK take on characters dead, but I think it's because of the nature of the game and the extreme limitations of D&D. The best you can do is go and play different system and stop feeding Hasbro's pockets. From the book of Hans: "Even players that say things like 'I want death to be a possibility' are kind of being vague and missing the point. They want the feeling of danger. They probably don't want their characters to die (or, at worst, they want death to be an inconvenience). They surely don't want a game so lethal that they have a character dying every session. Here's an experiment: The next time that a player says 'they want a game where death is a real possibility', ask them what percentage of games that they think the game should include their character dying, and whether they think that resurrection should be freely available".

[@cameronwarttig1732]

I like the part where they barely talk about killing off characters

[@BeastMasterNeil]

There are only so many "likes" the ear can hear in the course of an evening.

[@coolbeans621]

I guess they’re talking about a campaign?

[@GuadalupeSandavol-cn8rk]

Crazy hair we don't care

[@erismaar1ikkuh]

Like..........

[@subrisubrika5652]

Jack I used to say "like" a lot as well. Now I know how annoying it sounds lol.