Disco Klingons NOT Prime Confirmed??? - Lower Decks: Season 5

[@TheVarietyGuy]

I completely agree with you guys. My wife and I also had huge grins when we saw this, for the implications they were playing with.

[@CaptRobertApril]

I see this as a Christmas present from Mike McMahan on his way out the door. As well as payback for Kurtzman pulling the plug on Lower Decks in the first place.

[@StrangeNewPod]

@@CaptRobertApril Kurtzman didn’t pull the plug, common. Do you know anything about how television works?! Paramount execs pulled the plug.

[@Mu-podcast]

I always thought that the Disco Klingons would have made a decent "cousin" variant like Romulans and Vulcans. If they had done that and explained that Q'nos banded together with their cousins when fighting started, they could have had their unique look and not completely crapped on canon.

[@jamesforbes5616]

Yeah I had though it would be cool for them to be the Klingon version of Africans or Asians here on Earth. I still wasn't a HUGE fan of the purple. Like... Skin colors on Earth follow a logical progression, and you never really get any hints of purple or blue in darker skinned Klingons (like Worf or Kurn) vs lighter skinned ones (like Martok). But the variance in skull shape and ridge design is certainly something I could get on board with if they wanted to explain it as this being some kind of ethnic thing.

[@tdrewman]

SNW and DISCO are in the same universe .. The Klingons changed in Season 2 back to the Klingons we all know. I think it was a joke to show the that version since everyone hated the recon of them.

[@Catman498]

They weren’t quite the Klingons we all know and love they still had full face masks styles from season 1. Just remoter the cone head piece from back of their heads and added hair. Still had full face masks over their mouths. They still had talons on their hands. SNW went back to just forehead and noise combo closer to older shows. No hand proshetifes. Regular finger nails. Mind you I still think SNW Klingons masks look more plasticy like a hose from reboot movies.

[@Seanginty1]

Discovery takes place in the same universe as Strange New Worlds, which is in the same universe as Lower Decks. So if Discovery is alt, so is Lower Decks, or both are Prime and the Klingon gag proves absolutely nothing except LD is very funny.

[@Howyaduing]

Though, we don’t know that they were the same lower Deckers. We been following in the animated series. It could’ve been from STD’s timeline.

[@hastekulvaati9681]

Yeah, but Lower Decks looks like Star Trek. Not that I have ever watched an episode but I’ve seen stills 😂

[@nickryan4126]

The Cerritos changed into a Sovereign class. Sovereign class not prime confirmed? Just means in another universe that Klingon looked like a Discovery Klingon like in another universe I have red hair.

[@darongw]

Yeah, it was just a field of probabilities. If anything, it could even imply that since that change happened quickly, that it was highly probable that they could look like Discovery Klingons. Of course a low probability event could have happened, but it would be less likely by definition. Regardless, as you said, it doesn't say anything about if Discovery Klingons exist in the prime timeline or not.

[@SimonPicard]

In Strange New Worlds there is a temporal agent in season 2 episode 3. You can see the course of the prime timeline on her TCARS display. Due to the time travel in Picard Season 2 and La'an's time travel in SNW, a new branch of the Prime Timeline is created, which makes a curve and finds itself back in the Prime Timeline in the 24th century. Could it perhaps be that Discovery and Strange New Worlds takes place in the Prime Timeline, but on some sort of side branch? Maybe everything happened exactly the same in the normal timeline, just with "normal" looking Klingons and a ship that looks more like TOS inside and out.

[@CulturePhilter]

It doesn’t confirm anything either way on the issue of Discovery being prime Timeline. All it confirms is that in one alternative universe they STILL look like that at this point in history. Which doesn’t preclude them at one point looking like that in the prime universe as well. I say that as someone who hated the Klingon design in Discovery.

[@marcushall6821]

Regardless of what anyone wants to say. Discovery era Klingons are prime timeline Klingons. Klingons don't all look the same just as all humans don't look the same. It's all Star Trek and they're all Klingons. We gotta get over this nonsensical debate.

[@jceggbert5]

Not sure why everyone's latching onto this. I'm a card-carrying Discovery hater (and SNW lover) and all this says is that one of the houses of klingons that look like that became the predominant exploratory ones (in that other QR). Also, SNW S2 has multiple episodes with klingons.

[@Catman498]

Back in Disco they actually showed a council of all the houses and they all were done up in Disco prosthetics they just made each house have diffent uniforms, and ridge designs but general orc appearance.

[@jceggbert5]

@Catman498 about 5 years later (SNW S2), they show a mix of those klingons and ones that are much closer to TMP era

[@Catman498]

@@jceggbert5 No look closer they all have the talon hands prosthetics from season 1. And their masks are still one full face piece pulled from the season 1 designs Only difference is for most they removed the cone extension from back of the head and added a wig instead. There are still some hairless guards though with the elongated heads. But La’Rell for exampl head shrinks between seasons lol! They also changed her nose shape a little bit still has four nostrils and they toned down bony structures from her cheeks but it’s still kitbashed from season 1 face molds. The show tries to explain they grow hair in times of peace. The problem is in season 1 they were hairless and had been in episodes before war started including the council where they try to convince the council to go to war. Or in flashbacks to characters childhoods.

[@Catman498]

L’Rell also went from being purple skinned to white skinned between seasons inexplicably as well lol….

[@jasonwalker9471]

@@Catman498 We also know from Enterprise that Klingons are being hit hard with a gene altering virus filled with alien DNA. There is no reason the Disco Klingons can't be a result of the same process that gives us the human-klingon hybrids of Enterprise and TOS.

[@BenStimpsonAuthor]

Problem with this is... Strange New Words had a crossover with Lower Decks, and SNW is a spinoff from Discovery. So... probably not.

[@ammosophobia]

SNW is cannon because it had the crossover. SNW stands up without DISCO because they never mention anything from it - in DISC they were "sworn to secrecy" ... whatever becaus e that was in DISCO. SNW never references DISCO and SNW was crossed with LD, so it IS cannon

[@DiscoSoup1983]

SNW is part of the Discovery Timeline. Lower Decks' portal to SNW clearly crossed the multiverse. Not a big deal.

[@mleadenham1]

@@ammosophobia SNW USS-Enterprise also encountered a Crossfield-class ship in season 2, but it looked nothing like the USS Discovery. It was visually retconned to follow the TOS ship aesthetic. They literally called it a "Crossfield-class" on screen so there would be no doubt.

[@exilestudios9546]

@@ammosophobia they literally directly reference the end of season 2 of discovery in the first episode of SNW and pikes entire story revolves around him learning about his future in Discovery. seriously this is a brain dead take

[@ammosophobia]

@@exilestudios9546 He could have gone to Boreth, or had some experience without the Discovery if it is an alternate universe. It could be he saw his future on a mission on the Enterprise and came upon a time crystal. They don't mention DISCO in SNW because in the alternate universe they were sworn to secrecy, but in the Prime they don't directly mention the USS discovery. The crossfield class looks TOTALLY different in SNW, the Klingons look like TNG ...

[@MostBronzeChunner]

By Grabthar's Hammer, by the Suns of Warvan, you shall be vindicated!

[@DrFranklynAnderson]

@@MostBronzeChunner Never give up, never surrender!

[@LimeyOtoko]

There are some Discovery Klingons among the classic Klingons in SNW S2. I think it’s just going to end up like Northern and Southern Romulans.

[@Catman498]

@@LimeyOtoko Where in season 2? They didn’t appear in flashback to war episode and non on thar episode where they drink with the Klingon crew.

[@LimeyOtoko]

@@Catman498 They’re in the background of the episode where Spock ends up drinking blood wine with Klingons.

[@Catman498]

@ I watched and didn’t see any just regular Klingons. Even balder ones have regular human-like hands (not talons like disco Klingons). There are also some bald tellarites in background.

[@deadlymouse7033]

Instead of having debates of if that god offal design is prime, I think its best to just pretend it never happened.

[@GreenBlueWalkthrough]

I mean that is what the Star trek IP hold has been doing... Till lower Decks decied to renmain everyone of it...

[@Tzphardi]

To late to close Pandoras box I'm afraid.

[@svsguru2000]

Unfortunately not. 1, some of the klingons transformed into proto-klingons, which existed in the prime timeline, the implication being they turned into klingons from an alternative universe where they never evolved past that stage. 2. SNW, a direct sequel to STD, also had normal TNG klingons in it, meaning both types existed at least in that timeline. So the most likely explanation is that in LD, the Klingons turned into klingons from an alternate universe where the STD klingons became dominant, not that the STD klingons never existed in the prime timeline.

[@TroyUlysses]

SNW is a different timeline and also, your 'TNG' Klingons are, in fact TMP Klingons. The design we know as standard Klingons were first introduced in 1979.

[@GreenBlueWalkthrough]

I mean they could just use the halo lore reason for why all the covant spieces ten to change every game... "Xenotypes" Which to be fair Humans also have "Xenotypes" It's just Homo sapains are the big boss ones right now...

[@niklasulrich4725]

@@TroyUlysses ?SNW is the prime timeline

[@TroyUlysses]

@niklasulrich4725 I mean the Classic Timeline is ENT TOS TAS MOVIES TNG DS9 VOY and that so called Prime Timeline is what Kurtzman calls his creation. So yeah SNW is "Prime" 🤣

[@niklasulrich4725]

@@TroyUlysses ? again no. SNW, DISCO, Lower Decks and Prodigy are all in the classic Timeline, there are just 2 timelines. This one and the Celvin Timeline from the new Movies.

[@jamiecashes]

Can't wait for the blue ray release, lower decks have been my favorite new Trek. I wish they would do a live action movie with the cast.

[@rayrix3276]

Totally a different Quantum reality. Ha it's cannon now! Don't care what anyone says.. Lower Decks Lower Decks Lower Decks

[@richardjohnson9543]

That scene opened up a big 'ol can of worms and I'm surprised they allowed it. But it was funny though

[@MellowGaming]

I feel like there's been too much that ties Discovery into main canon now to fully say it's another reality. I took this as it turned them into a variation where the Disco Klingons became the dominant species.

[@everettjohnson9374]

I guarantee THIS isnt what they meant people to take away from this.

[@alexhurlbut]

yeah, it can just mean in an alternative reality the Klingons stayed looking like that into TNG Era.

[@Jarsia]

Could also be a tongue in cheek was of saying the disco designs were dumb, even if they're not "officially" decanonized. It was taking a shot at disco either way

[@nickryan4126]

@@Jarsia that's what the producer said it was but he doesn't have the authority to say something is no longer canon.

[@s0515033]

They didn't realize that a lot of star trek fans are no-life nerds who are terminally online.

[@nickryan4126]

@@s0515033 says the person in the comment section of a KZbin video on a channel specifically focused on Star Trek ships. As long as you're admitting you're also a no life need who is terminally online.

[@RobynsMan]

It proves Discovery Klingons were the worst decision in the Star Trek franchise (and that’s saying a lot) and now we can acknowledge we’re all going to move on from them forever.

[@JD-vh1qd]

Agree.

[@boombasett6038]

I actually loved Discovery's Klingons. I always thought they should look more alien and savage, and Discovery pulled it off, and then the bitchin' fans moaned and complained. Should be happy we are getting any Trek at all.

[@bjrnhalfhand2258]

​@@boombasett6038 you're just going to have to cope and seethe. Most fans didn't like the Klingorcs and we'll never see them again in live action. Even the showrunners retconned them in the second series of STD to try to make them look closer to actual Klingons.

[@jasonwalker9471]

@@boombasett6038 I really didn't like makeup. I'm glad to see someone did:). Cheers! I've seen some complaints about the SNW Klingon makeup as well. Personally I like it more than the makeup from the early seasons of TNG, but not quite as much as the DS9 Klingon makeup.

[@msharp6887]

On so….all this confirms is that there are discovery Klingons out there in the quantum verse, not that they are not also in the prime timeline

[@nickryan4126]

@@msharp6887 exactly. The Cerritos changed into a Sovereign class. Sovereign class not prime confirmed? Just means in another universe that Klingon looked like a Discovery Klingon like in another universe I have red hair.

[@msharp6887]

@ this is how I saw it. It just means that discovery Klingons exist, not specifically where they exist

[@michaelkata2342]

Hey don't ruin this for us. This could be the only chance to give Trek back some dignity.

[@turtletube420]

That is pretty much what it is saying. It is the same as lower Decks confirming Janeway murdered Tuvix, making it canon. Now I'm Turtle and I'm a legitimate expert on the Star Trek universe along with a few others I'm very fortunate to be able to make a living because of Star Trek being a die-hard Trekkie who has Trek on 24/7 just like the Trek Yard guys make a living who are great but do make some mistakes just like me but that what humans do no one is perfect and I'm willing to invite yourself and anyone who wants to join and take part in a live stream about Disco and it's legacy.

[@msharp6887]

@ understood……obviously Disco Klingons are an entirely unique group specific to a single backwoods universe.

[@JunkGaragehome]

in the same scene the cerritos also turned into an oberth, galaxy, sovereign, reliant, and freedom class ships? does that make all them not canon as well? it was just a nod nothing more. another klingon ship also became proto klingons and the miniature targ became a clam

[@wingsabre]

It’s not saying Discovery is an alternate timeline. It’s just there’s an alternate reality where the Discovery Klingons are more prominent. It’s why we saw an alternate timeline Garek, Bashir and Dax. In the last episode we also showed that time moves differently in some universe, and was why Tpol was there. In the Prime Universe, she should be dead as she’s older than Spock. Even in this episode, we saw a Proto-Klingon and it’s not like that was not canon.

[@Catman498]

Oh it gets weirder in fissure quest it refers to LD universes as the 2D planes. And in Ready Room they describe the SNW crossover as them visiting the "human world/3D plane". Consisting of live action treks. So it's possible that LD exists on a slightly different quantum plane as well from live action timelines/universes…

[@humanlegacy2165]

Lower Decks decided to bang the final nail into the coffin of Discovery Klingons. To tell everyone "Nooooo Nooooooooo!" Imagine Picard in First Contact yelling noooooo! 😂

[@alternative915]

I can still hear patrick stewart calling for help for the many inconvenience inside your average airport toilet.

[@pferreira1983]

When it comes to Kurtzman Trek the line must be drawn here! 😂

[@Kreachie]

To be fair, If I may? I’d have to disagree with SNW and Discovery being entirely Alternate-Realities/Parallel-Universe (much to the chagrin of those hoping), however The Proto-Klingons if you subtract the horns, mandibles, and make the eyes a bit lighter, kind of do have a resemblance to the Discovery Klingons. based on those observations I may have an alternative theory as to why the Disco-Klingons look more “Exotic” than most the other ones we’ve seen in other series. I believe the Disco-Klingons may have a genetic anomaly, one in which makes the native Qo’nos DNA more dominant compared to the DNA that Archer gave to fight the augment virus in ENT: “Divergence” or maybe even the DNA from the ancient humanoid preservers, thus making their native Klingon features far more pronounced. Does this affect all Klingons? No. Onscreen, even in Discovery, we only see very few of the Disco-klingons overall, the majority belonging to one house. House Mo’kai, which was the house of L’rell, U’jilli, and even once was also the house T'Kuvma’s lineage spawned from. The reality that BoP was transposed with, I think was one where said Genetic-mutation was probably more prevalent in the Empire, and was probably, if not by alot, slightly more common.

[@Ririten]

Mike McMahan has been pretty clear on Bsky he just meant for it to be a fun reference to Discovery and now weirdos who hate fun have taken it to confirm something that was never meant. Folks really need to chill.

[@TardisCaptain]

I was just coming here to say this. It's not making a mountain out of a molehill.

[@turtletube420]

I'm sorry you're wrong and Disco Trekkies are not fans Disco Trekkies who give actual Disco fans a bad name and rep which looks like what you are doing That is pretty much what it is saying that it's from an alternate universe which makes sense and is not a bad thing and I invite you to take part in a live stream were you can freely express your opinion. It is the same as lower Decks confirming Janeway murdered Tuvix, making it canon. Now I'm Turtle and I'm a legitimate expert on the Star Trek universe along with a few others I'm very fortunate to be able to make a living because of Star Trek being a die-hard Trekkie who has Trek on 24/7 just like the Trek Yard guys make a living who are great but do make some mistakes just like me but that what humans do no one is perfect and I'm willing to invite yourself and anyone who wants to join and take part in a live stream about Disco and it's legacy.

[@Ririten]

@@turtletube420 You could take 30 seconds and go to the show runners bluesky to see that you're wrong. You typed this huge mess up when you could have done the bare minimum research.

[@autecheee]

Mike was trolling the orthodox-prime-Trekkies!

[@ryanhau1073]

There is a debate on if Trek really needs to explain the Klingon Redesign from the TOS Ridgeless to the TMP Ridged. Got a feeling something similar is happening with the Discovery Klingons

[@chickenracer25]

I can't find the scene, can someone please give me roughly the timestamp of the episode? Thanks in advance.

[@neochozo]

My question is this: if this supposedly decanonizes Discovery (which I’m actually cool with), it also by extension decanonizes SNW, even if the Enterprise and uniforms are different. And LD already interacted with SNW so we know that can’t be the case. Also, didn’t SNW 1x1 make mention of the Discovery in an offhand manner, or am I just thinking that? I know for sure it has referenced Pike’s interaction with the time crystals.

[@evos469]

Remember the each show and movie has to deal with Network BS concerning the various production rights

[@Melkur1981]

The Disco BOP looks like it would fit better in the 32nd century.

[@Nichodo]

@@Melkur1981 except the 32nd Century shown in Discovery also is in the Discovery Timeline

[@Melkur1981]

@Nichodo Why would that be a problem?

[@1870offroad]

3:56 I loved it, the art department just made one of the best moves of modern trek. I’ve enjoyed all of the new stuff even Discovery, but it just doesn’t fit everything else. This quick scene helps that make since. Discovery is in a different quantum reality where things are darker, bleaker, and visually different. It’s not only visually different, the stories are different. In old trek, the future was bright and optimistic, in discovery its bleak, dystopian, and dark. Still entertaining but doesn’t fit everything else in Trek

[@sardonicspartan9343]

We always knew it wasn't.

[@michaelkata2342]

Now if only the rest of Kurtzman's dreck can be wiped from the main timeline or Universe.

[@Salacnar]

So does that mean Star Trek First Contact and subsequent movies with the Enterprise E are also a separate reality

[@everettjohnson9374]

Nope, the events of first contact are referenced in Voyager by 7 of 9

[@andrewstephen2359]

The show runners already shot this theory down. The various crossovers between shows links them all. They are all canon, all same universe( 70s animated included). Only the Kelvin films are in a seperate universe.

[@Saltybuher]

Thing is that SNW is in continuity. That’s just updated looks rather than destroying the whole thing though.

[@geekinitwithjimclassic8240]

About time they admitted it. They weren't hiding it well.

[@neondemon5137]

To play devils advocate, what if the Ceritos is in a non prime universe? It works both ways.

[@CommandLineVulpine]

My guess is that's the only reason the team was able to get away with it. Plausible deniability they aren't prime either. That said, there's been a few jokes over the series that "they're the prime timeline". It's also a continuation of TAS, so if TAS is prime they are too. Also I don't think in the Strange New Worlds crossover, they said anything about the reality appearing more realistic, or theirs being cartoony. Which would imply Lower Decks is in reality, live action, and it's presentation as a cartoon is just what the viewer sees.

[@jceggbert5]

@@CommandLineVulpine there's a joke about everyone feeling animated after drinking Orion De'laq, but I'm not sure how to actually apply that to canon, unless the Cerritos crew is all a bunch of drunkards, which based on their behavior, actually wouldn't surprise me. We just get to watch them through "beer goggles" and that's why some things seem "off".

[@turtletube420]

Considering that it is the most Trek series out of the new trek and that It is the only Star trek series to never have a bad season technically when it comes to everything that is important form ratings, critics and fans were as Disco season 2 was it's best tng, Ds9, voy and ENT all got rolling by there 3rd seasons but you do make a logical choice and I invite you to join a live stream to discuss trek if you want

[@Jack_Stafford]

The Cerritos clearly does exist in an alternate reality, a two-dimensional very cartoony one where crew members speak and act in ways that would not be allowed on any Starfleet vessel, It could only exist in the Canon if it was a show that was watched by children on the ships but as far as being Alpha cannon, it's simply impossible with some of the things that they had people say and do. But as it has been presented, it's no more "real" Canon than bride of chaotica , Fair Haven or Vic Fontaine, it's just entertainment for people on the ship. They've broken far too many other Star Trek accepted ideas to be considered Alpha Cannon. So it's a comedy show that is enjoyed by characters within the Star Trek universe, and that's fine.

[@GreenBlueWalkthrough]

​@@Jack_Stafford ​ @Jack_Stafford I mean that's likely the intention and the "out" like how in prime trek they use the captin's log as an "out". Like you are just running holo programs ddoing "dry" research of all the most important ships and their bridge crews in Star fleet history. So that would make sense and Lower decks in the universe like you said is just a popular holo comedy made by an active duty lower decks crew doing gags as their form of captins log... Which by the way is a real thing ever since aircraft carrer crews got their hands on the cronicoral room... Which I believe their are like 3 massivbly popular comedy movies filmed at sea by real USN active duty personal mostly maintainers and aircrew... So yeah all the lore inarcacies are due to mistakes in the program or more likely you are looking at a reailty not your own... Aka not your headcanon... Which is an isnly good sulottion to the lore debate issue Treck always have had!

[@nonarKitten]

Ah Lower Decks -- ended because it righted all the wrongs.

[@Quetzalcoatl_Feathered_Serpent]

It doesn't comfirm Klingons were not Prime Confirmed. Its been theorized and I think partially confirmed that the Disco Klingons was a faction or variant of the klingons that were also very religious or at least very conservative in their line of thinking.

[@ROBOTkw1]

So that's where the Disco Klingons came from. It was sad when one of the Klingon ships changed into an old sea going vessel and all their lives were lost. Also sad: I'm guessing the proto-Klingons killed each other off.

[@captainsheppard1131]

I honestly forgot how annoying and pointless this argument is. You can’t make a show in the 2020’s look like a show in the 1960’s and compete effectively for an audience. Stop it. 😮 Batman, Superman, mission impossible, Dr Who, Star Wars…no one does that. It has all changed to fit modern expectations. Even Gene Roddenberry changed how the Klingons looked and Gen, Chang rocked baldness in TUC The Gorn are different and Romulan women are somehow even hotter. Even those creepy peeping Tom aliens from the Cage look different. Kirk wore drab pant suits in TMP. Tribbles are now meaty and tasty. Uhura wears her hair low and publicly sports a durag. Robert April is black. Is that all not canon/another universe now because it doesn’t fit perfectly with a TOS centric view of what is and isn’t canon Trek? Btw, Arent you the same fellas that started the debate about the lack of carpet on starships? Tiring.

[@davidedward10]

I have said this a few times for other videos, This is a simple fact of lower decks doing what they do best, poking fun at the controversy of discovery changing visuals as a JOKE, and everybody taking it WAY too seriously.

[@Azraiel213]

Prime isn't canon, though. It's Canon (aka "classic" TOS - ENT era Trek), Kelvin (Reboot movies to present), and Prime (the kitchen sink in the middle). Prime was originally put forward as marketing to conflate Kelvin and Canon.

[@christopherbrentbrown8840]

It’s hard to say it’s 100% proof it’s not prime, just basing it on the crossover episode where Mariner and Boilmer went back to the strange new worlds Enterprise from the prime timeline. Unless we want to assume the gateway goes back in time and also shifts reality.

[@mikestoast]

I am glad so many, are, much more eloquently than I, pushing back against this stretch of logic and clearly wishful thinking of the video title.

[@BajaTym]

I try to think of the Disco Klingons as just one of many members of the Klingon Empire. I’d image there are many “Klingons” within the empire, lots of member worlds and aliens intermingling and fighting for power. Personally, I’ve never liked what Disco did with the Klingons. It simply makes zero sense within the prime universe.

[@Soul-cry1]

If discovery wanted us to see them as Klingons they should have said these are a cousin race to them, much how Vulcans and Romulans are to one another

[@Catman498]

Cartoon version has the L'Rell costume.

[@tiovader4026]

I'm dying to know your opinion about Relga's BIG BIRD...

[@andresmarkwart8694]

Man, its really disappointing when y'all go back into these conversations haha clearly this sequence in Lower Decks was showing alternate versions, through time and different realities, changing in the moment, but based on the reality of the prime timeline. We got a different version of Bashir this season, for example, and a purple Data, etc etc...but it doesn't mean that they're not in the prime timeline - clearly they are, but each universe has every variation. Continuing to try and find threads of nonsense to grab on to just because one doesn't like a certain creative decision is disappointing. I didn't like the Klingon redesign, but I've gotten over it. I'm sure TOS diehards felt the same in TMP upon seeing the brow ridges too, etc etc - let's just get over it and move on.

[@EWDocParris]

My dudes, it was a frigging 20 frame joke.

[@donovanbradford8231]

Myself I'm also Gundam and Dragon Ball fan there is so much to each universe that honestly I saw whatever you want is your own cannon it doesn't make it bad if it's not cannon. End of the say I'm not a fan of Discovery not because I feel it's cannon or not cannon it's because I can get into the episodes or characters. I like Lower Decks because it makes me smile. I Liked Star Trek Resurgence because it felt like Legacy Trek in many ways. Make it whatever you want and god bless you for it.

[@evnthr1zn]

Be divided on this or not, I still use my imagination to blend the possibilities on this multiverse, and find ways to enjoy each Trek iteration even if it doesn’t exactly match my expectations.

[@gemmamoon5998]

@@evnthr1zn I wish more people thought that way. I’d love it if everything perfectly adhered to a beautiful, singular canon, but that’s just not the case. So I just choose what I like and enjoy the ride! Why do we have to “fix” the canon?

[@evnthr1zn]

@ As someone once stated, “there should be room for for both in this life”.

[@JD-vh1qd]

Even the Klingon was upset at how he looked. I’m glad it’s in another universe and I hope we never go back there. Discovery sucked so so much.

[@lasarith2]

Tbh I wouldn’t have a problem with them being an offshoot of the regular Klingons ~ though specific breeding to keep there older evolutionary look , and are classed as say a berserker version of the regular ones , rather then the oh these are the official Klingons that they tried to make out . Edit: though they were all killed off during the war between the federation and Klingons because they fought on the front lines and they were only like a few thousand of them.,,,

[@JanMichalSzulew]

Unless there is an OFFICIAL statement from Kurtzman or some executive this is just bound to cause another fandom "civil war" and possibly Memory Alpha disputes/vandalism. As much as I'd like to see both DSC and SNW (because they invented this stupid "Romulans are delaying our development" thing to sync up with REAL WORLD TIMELINE for some reason) erased from canon.

[@everettjohnson9374]

No, it's just that they reverted to an older look. The quantum inversions changed the look of something and the things if them if they weren't shielded properly. We also see klmgons revert into what worf devolved into

[@pferreira1983]

Discovery is no longer canon, that's awesome! 😂But that also means Strange New Worlds isn't either.

[@Jarsia]

Of course the problem there is SNW was directly linked to LD with the crossover episode

[@Quetzalcoatl_Feathered_Serpent]

Discovery is cannon. Strange New Worlds is as well. Get used to it.

[@michaelkata2342]

And that's a bad thing because? That show is an even bigger disgrace for how the handled Pike and Spock and the singing and dancing Klingons didn't help either.

[@Jarsia]

@@michaelkata2342 Well then by extension LD itself isn't canon, that's the point. LD, Disco, & SNW are all in the same continuity.

[@s0515033]

@@michaelkata2342 People are never happy and it seems many star trek "fans" have an unhealthy disposition. Almost like they need to be victims and hate stuff.

[@HKy0uma]

Oh my god care about other things.

[@skellener]

Title is incorrect! It confirms nothing.

[@s0515033]

People are looking too deeply into this. Lower Deks, while canon, is also a comedy spoof of star trek shows. Not everything that happens is to be taken literally. People who hate Discovery are grasping at straws here to reinforce their obsession.

[@seanoneill9606]

Hit that like button!

[@TMAC_burninator]

Disco was never Star Trek. If that's retconned into its own universe, then a bunch of other stuff gets retconned too (the nonsense of Strange New Worlds among them). Good luck to Memory Alpha sorting that out. Discovery made a mess of Trek.

[@jasonwalker9471]

Or - and hear me out here - these are TV shows. They made a makeup change for offscreen reasons. Why is that so hard to understand?

[@Ash_Rein]

Now get rid of Picard season 1,2, and three and the section 31 movie. Essentially remove everything past 2006.

[@RAdaltonracer]

And remove you from the fandom because clearly your mind is too closed to actually enjoy Star Trek anymore.

[@Ash_Rein]

@ i’ll make you a deal. Give me anything that any of the post 2006 Star Trek has taught you in terms of any science based information and I’ll say I love this garbage. Anything at all. Give me any episode where they actually did any kind of meaningful exploration. It’s called Star Trek, not Star Wars. Everything’s an explosion now.

[@MoonjumperReviews]

I see a lot of Disco fans getting apoplectic, denying what was plainly shown right there in our faces - just as they deny or ignore that the Romulan agent in “Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow” said unambiguously exactly what she said. Meanwhile, the same folks will simultaneously question, if not outright deny, the canonicity of The Original Series. The newsflash part of all of this is that it’s ALL canon and can all be “true” despite the egregious ignoring of continuity by both Discovery and SNW. The reason for this is that by Discovery’s third season, someone on the writing team to his or her credit finally got around to watching some episodes of Star Trek and discovered that their was something in Trek’s canon called the Temporal Cold War, which they started name-dropping for the remainder of the series - thus setting up a plausible scenario for Discovery’s anachronistic existence in the 23rd century, not to mention those unrecognizable reptilian aliens they called Klingons. “Strange New Worlds,” again to their credit, picked up on this plot thread with “Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow” by outright stating, unambiguously, that Discovery/SNW was in a separate timeline from TOS. “All of this was supposed to have happened in the 1990s” she said (just as it had in TOS) but now everything had changed due the Temporal Wars and now it was happening in 2023 - and she had been stuck on Earth for the last 30 years trying to kill Khan who wasn’t even born yet - and she was losing her mind over the whole thing. (I felt some sympathy for her and I’ve liked that particular actress since her days starring in “Reign” on The CW.). At that point, a separate timeline from TOS was unambiguously confirmed. Both timelines are canon and both can coexist - and potentially even tie into one another. There’s no reason to deny it or get upset about it.

[@StrangeNewPod]

Shame on you guys.

[@ThatEnglishGent]

The amount of effort going into trying to keep STD canon in the replies here is amusing. Yes there are multiple alternative universes. This is nothing new in Star Trek but what it does highlight is that STD is not part of the prime/legacy timeline. It is it's own thing which is fine and its all anyone ever wanted in the first place.

[@hastekulvaati9681]

It was an act of vandalism to muck up 40 years of fairly consistent visual style. I did quite like the make up effects on the disco-klingons… just not as a Klingons. The ships, the unforms, the rest of it…nope.

[@on1yadam]

Hold on, but klingons look 'prime universe' in Strange New Worlds. That's a sequel to discovery

[@jasonwalker9471]

Yup. You know why? Because these are TV shows that made makeup changes for off-screen reasons. I'm not sure why some of these people are having trouble with that concept.

[@on1yadam]

@@jasonwalker9471 it call 'suspension of disbelief' ironically people don't know that goes for within a story as well

[@driftbandit4740]

Or this was put in by the producers of Lower Decks intentionally to throw off the Discovery haters. Many of them have completely forgotten about the Lower Decks crossover with Strange New Worlds which establishes Strange New Worlds and Discovery within the same Prime Timeline. Also, a Multidimential rip can also effect the current timeline by bringing back ships or people from the past or the future. Let the haters believe that they have vindication but in reality Lower Decks intentionally played them like fools.

[@SGTMontgomeryMACO]

Feels like lower decks is the DS9 timeline and everything else is a different universe. but then again it’s not. I appreciate the fun of quantum realm tunnel. 😂

[@CanadianJames]

So Khan isn't Canadian?

[@rafaelsays175]

Yes! We all knew it. They all knew it. Now everyone knows it.

[@setaihedron]

I feel your Discovery pain guys, but every other Trek KZbinr like Trek Culture is saying that this does not confirm that Discovery is a separate timeline because they explicitly state that they are changing into forms from their own timeline as well. Nice try though!

[@haroldchase4120]

strange new worlds isn’t prime time line visually either and spark doesn’t act like Spock.

[@JD-vh1qd]

It’s much better than Discovery. You got to give them that.

[@JD-vh1qd]

This Discovery Klingon ship were horrible. The future federation ships are also complete garbage. God I hate that show.

[@Jerew]

this is kind of annoying fans shitting on shows that shift to scientific realism based on science , in real life aliens wouldn't look like a human wearing a mask because of graphical limitations of the past . people complain it should stay that way , just like they were bitching a reptile species should look like a human in a mask because of limitation 50 years ago. old farts

[@kineuhansen8629]

if only disco was in a alternative timeline but sadly not

[@martychisnall]

It is

[@Carlos0619ASmith]

​@@martychisnall Indeed it is!!!

[@everettjohnson9374]

​@@martychisnallit's not

[@ulfsark78]

@@everettjohnson9374 It is LOL That's the time line with the Kling-orcs.

[@dmarr1983]

So then that means that SNW is not in the prime timeline because SNW is a spin-off from Disco

[@TheMsLourdes]

Are they great aliens, absolutely, beautiful makeup work. Klinzhai... no.

[@GreenBlueWalkthrough]

I mean Lower deck kinda masterfuilly sovled the whole lore recon thing Trek has had since like TNG... So I agree with the Lower decks mindset... It's all canon you just have to be extremely carefull how you use your Star treck lisnce... Which the Lower decks soltionm is only for Star terk because it's lore has gotten this messed up in it's bvery unique way... Which all complec deep long lived fictional universes all do run into Lore debates even if it's just differing takes on the fafts as well as stuff only the author knows... And should 100% change if the new idea is much better for everyone mostly the creators and fans... Also altyernate canon should be a thing odd people hate that idea so much some how... Anyway I love Lower Decks making the statement with it's show that all star trek canoinb is valid as long as the media is good... Which eve3ryone needs to sit down and thinkj really hard on how they would settle the lore debates in their work... Which if I'm honmest Lower Decks is just saying the quite part out load... They is an industry wide movement to solve their IPs lore debates as they are net negtives for everyone invadled esplacly tghe creators and fans...

[@lucri988]

DSC is not Prime. Nor then is SNW. I wont change that viewpoint. Too many things dont add up and are just wrong canon-wise. Too many and too big to accept that they are prime. Yes, not everything is one to one accurate in all ST shows (Enterpise and Borg was stupid eg) but majority is so small it pass the border control. But with SD & SNW it leaves me and many others stuck in a thought or feeling that something is very off. That is a check marker for not passing the border control..into prime.

[@Catman498]

SNW is set in a timeline that’s already shifted the events of the eugenic wars but also leads into a similar quantum reality shared with TNG/Picard/Voyager/DS9/Prodigy/LD (even had a crossover). While ST Enteprise existed before the eugenics war date change since it still made reference to eugenics war taking place in the 20th century. The event hasn’t been altered yet. 13:16 The eugenics wars still happened in the 20th century in the Kelvin timeline too. TOS/TAS/Films/ENT exist in pre altered timeline but also leads into quantum reality where TNG/Voy/DS9 happened as well. However ENT also takes place in a post First Contact altered timeline as well. Borg tech reached earth earlier than it would have in original timeline.

[@lucri988]

@Catman498 Dont really understand. You are saying DSC and SNW is shifted Prime or something else? Shifted Prime is not Prime. As I said, I wont change view point. Enterprise is on the edge of not passing. But they at least acknowledge old looking ships from TOS. So Everything after ENT is not Prime. But before is. People can throw whatever argument they want against my strongly hold viewpoint and spend uneccesary time trying doing so. It is, to quote Borg, futile.

[@Catman498]

@lucri988 Prime is an essentially a useless term they established in discovery every universe thinks they are “prime” universe, people living in mirror universe believe they are in prime from their perspective, and that other universes are not prime (disco timeline is their “mirror”). This is apparently the case for every universe. But yes in quantum theory multiverse system every action, every time change creates a new universe. There is no true prime because every choice, every possibility, made is constantly altering the universe. The temporal Cold War altered the timelines over and over and over again. Essentially because of quaint multiverse theory would have created hundreds if not thousands of universes. But basically everything after disco exists in a different timeline than anything before Enterprise. But for all extents and purposes there are 2-4 “main” timelines that the main series follow exist in. 1. TOS to Voy 2. Post First Contact incursion (left Borg tech in last that altered course of federation somewhat). But also a universe where Florida was destroyed because actions of temporal Cold War, etc. 3. Disco/SNW post Temporal Cold War even further alterations. Enough butterfly effects that some characters even swapped races. Beyond thar there are minor variant timelines: Like differences between.Tribbles episode in TOS vs modified version of the events in DS9. The incursion is the DS9 crew replaced other individuals who were involved originally in the events which means those individuals didn’t get into a fight didn’t get punished for getting into a fight, didn’t interact with Kirk. Which could have altered their individual course of history and could have changed future elements in unknown ways. Maranda incursion was also a big enough alteration to history to completely fuck up its course of history. Leading to destruction of Vulcan. But also changing Kirk’s childhood history and leading to other crew members joining enterprise much earlier than in earlier timelines.

[@Catman498]

@@lucri988 Ultimately prime is a useless term. Established in disco every timeline/universe believes they are prime from their own perspective. Mirror believes they are prime. And quantum multiverse theory (parallels began this idea, and prodigy, LD embraces it) that every choice every possibility, every time travel event creates new timelines and universes. Every possibility exists. In other words every universe believes they are the prime universe.

[@Catman498]

And thanks to temporal Cold War and many major time incursions series has shifted away from original TOS timeline. Sometimes in minor ways almost every time travel episode has a timeline an and a post episode timeline b variant. And sometimes timeline c variant that is bad that they try to “fix” which leads to timeline b. But basically one history is history without incursion influence and a version with incursion influence ultimately “fixing” the timeline. How much impact that has on future varies. But some incursions might alter the timeline in bigger ways. First Contact is one potential possibility. Both Cochram and Lilly were armed with knowledge of future technology. Borg tech was left behind. Actions lead to Temporal Cold War further alterations to the timeline like Florida being destroyed. That didn’t happen in original timelines (as explained by Daniels). That war continued on leading to other events happening differently the eugenic wars shifted for example.Further altering the timeline.

[@Klutzsmith]

Stop beating a dead horse. Disco is finished. It's canon. Just move on.

[@Starweaver1]

Disco IS NOT canon at all!

[@Klutzsmith]

@Starweaver1 such a loquacious and convincing argument. I'm old enough to remember when your people were against TNG, DS9, VOY.

[@aaronsibley]

no

[@isfj1009]

Finally. Yes. Not Prime Trek. AND, done with the blessing of Paramount. Disco is the trash of an alternate timeline. ;) Oh yeah, let's not forget, Lower Decks IS Prime Timeline. ;)

[@hanneschristiang.3264]

No, that scene doesn't mean it's an alternate timeline. Not at all.

[@ulfsark78]

Except it literally does.

[@thebagnechannel3183]

We had Klingons transform into prototype-Klingons, which looked completely different than modern Klingons. I don’t think this is conclusive. Why the writers of DISCO made the choice to use these different Klingons is unknown to me.

[@nickryan4126]

​@@ulfsark78the Cerritos turned into a Sovereign class. Is the Sovereign class not prime?

[@ulfsark78]

@@nickryan4126 If you actually paid attention, you'll see it's NOT a prime universe sovereign class. Look at it's nacelles.

[@SimonPicard]

​@@ulfsark78 But the Oberth class and the Miranda class, which the Cerritos also transformed into, looked exactly like they did in TNG.

[@QRedknight]

I hate discovery. It’s the worst thing they ever done to start trek.

[@boneyold]

Yeah, the disco Klingons didn’t even line up with the JJVerse. So definitely from another, worse universe

[@MarvelManMike82]

I knew this debate was coming and it's STUPID. They became "Genesis" proto-Klingon beasts too. Can I say that episode isn't canon? Cos it doesn't deserve to be. Or how about "Barge of the Dead"? It was quite obvious they became versions from the past, just like if they'd become TOS smooth-heads it wouldn't make TOS non-canon either. I hate that this will be the legacy of the finale of a great series, and I'm massively disappointed at Mike McMahan who knew exactly what he was doing.

[@anthonylowder6687]

For me everything since Star Trek Voyager (with the possible exception of Star Trek Lower Decks) ended is neither prime universe or canon

[@garypalmer997]

Life this is all true. Then this also proves Lowerdecks isn't canon, prime universe. Because lower decks did a cross-over with strange new worlds and in SNW, they do reference many events that happened in discovery thus if discovery isn't canon then by default lower decks amd SNW isn't either. And don't even get me started on Picard

[@RAdaltonracer]

Lower Decks also did direct crossovers with both DS9 and Voyager. Does that make them not canon too?

[@garypalmer997]

@RAdaltonracer no cause theye all part of the same alternate universe

[@MarkLLawrence]

Have to say it again, that Disco Klingon ship sure looked goofy next to a proper Prime BoP

[@comentedonakeyboard]

Decanonising Disco is the first Reboot/Retcon/whatever i'm on board with.

[@notabannedaccount8362]

Discover is Prime Timeline! TOS footage needs to be updated.

[@Nichodo]

NO!

[@everettjohnson9374]

Na it was just another type of klingon

[@Arfarf69]

@@Nichodoyes

[@Melkur1981]

@notabannedaccount8362 Don't hold your breath. They can't even give us DS9 in 4k.

[@notabannedaccount8362]

@@Melkur1981 But TOS needs to be remastered so the Enterprise matches SNW canon.

[@DennyAtkin]

T'Pol is on the ship because Vulcans live a long time -- she mentions having been with Trip for decades, so that one's not evidence of time shifts like Stuart implies. You guys usually rock your analysis, but the chosen title for this episode has just provided the negative "NuTrek haters" with ammo. For shame. The horribad Disco S1 Klingon designs were terrible, no argument, but these guys are no more evidence of which timeline Disco's in than Purple Data affects "prime Data's" history. Your actual analysis was fair and interesting, but the headline's all over FB as ammo for the annoying "that's not real Star Trek" crowd.

[@eddiepriddy]

First!!

[@power543]

High Five!

[@ZekkAlpha]

Fantastic bait headline. The disco klingons are prime. That's not going to change.

[@adamjones4989]

Okay, I had a theory for a while that the animated show writers were unhappy with discovery.