Discourse with Ben: Is Christianity Reasonable? Part 1 - Creationism

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Benjamin asked if we could have a discussion on this topic, which I'm usually down for when it seems that someone might be reasonable.
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[@SpaceShowFeature1]

"Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advance one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth." - Thomas Jefferson

[@sleepisthecousinofdeath7395]

Christianity may be bad, but that ain’t worse than the Talmud Those writing will make you puke 🤮

[@greyngreyer5]

@@sleepisthecousinofdeath7395 And the Talmud pales in comparison to the atrocities decreed by the quran

[@oussama6233]

But why did not u mention what happened when others ruled. from sumerians, egyptian persians till communist and european who came to America.

[@greyngreyer5]

@@oussama6233 And muslims.

[@oussama6233]

@@greyngreyer5 when muslims ruled it was a golden age. have u ever read about the golden age of Islam? muslims made a civlization? when europe did not have bathrooms. Read history and light will shine on your face. yours, Oussama

[@Lightman741]

Aron my first comment on your video a few years ago was “no one has seen a dog give birth to a cat”. Two years later I am now an atheist and have you and the ACA to thank.

[@BaronVonQuiply]

Congratulations on your growth 🙂

[@Zook85]

@Joe Andersen missionary or doggy?

[@zenfey]

Funny how the same thing can move people in different directions. The ACA compelled me to stop calling myself an atheist, even though that label is truer now than it was when I used it. I don't mean this in any sense to knock you down, I'm very happy for you. There's just a set of online atheists that aren't for me

[@BaronVonQuiply]

@joeandersen274 Your true identify is taking orders and being a slave? We're just different 🤷‍♂

[@BaronVonQuiply]

@joeandersen274 Do you have anything to suggest any of this is real and not something you found in a story book?

[@cerasinopshodgskissi3817]

I got in two arguments with two different people today about religion and science. In my first period class I was attempting to explain abiogenesis, evolution, and why Noah’s flood could never have happened. This happened after the art teacher told me that science is a religion. Once class was over and I was cut off in my lecture the same teacher told me “nice sermon.” I then got into an argument with a friend at lunch about Noah’s flood and the Big Bang theory. I don’t think I got I to anyones heads today, but I wouldn’t have been able to confidently talk about this stuff if it weren’t for Aron, so thank you.

[@sleepisthecousinofdeath7395]

There was no global flood like the Bible claims, but there may have been large scale floods from Tsunamis from things like Younger dryas event

[@cerasinopshodgskissi3817]

@@sleepisthecousinofdeath7395 That’s exactly what I told them. When I presented all the reason why the flood could have never happened as described I was told that the Big Bang sounds just as impossible because it’s “the whole universe coming from nothing” as he put it. The sad part is I explained to him a few days earlier the Big Bang, what it actually is, and how we know it happened to the best of my ability, and he was still using the same arguments. A few months back I attempted to explain human evolution to him after he asked the classic question “if we came from monkeys why are there still monkeys.” That was easier to do because human evolution is my favorite field of study, and I teach it often at a museum I volunteer at, but I don’t think that lesson got through either.

[@sleepisthecousinofdeath7395]

@@cerasinopshodgskissi3817 💯

[@toforgetisagem8145]

Good job that your teacher is an art teacher and not in charge of physics. They spent all of their time drawing so it's no surprise they can't tell a sermon from a lecture.

[@cerasinopshodgskissi3817]

@@toforgetisagem8145 Yes there’s that at least. The physics/astronomy teacher is very strict about science vs religion, and always makes sure that we’re using the word theory correctly in science, among other things. The other physics teacher is religious but he’s still reasonable and knows what he’s talking about.

[@nativeatheist6422]

I'm gonna say this, Ben listens. Maybe he'll reason himself out of this.

[@mattpeters4700]

@Joe Andersen #yikes

[@Tornadopelt]

@Joe Andersen #SpamMuch

[@alvincapone5859]

@Joe Andersen can you explain in more detail how Jesus created the universes? Aaron goes into full detail , can you?

[@oneboredfool9578]

@joeandersen274 Complete religious nutjob right here folks

[@TheNihonjin]

Ben sounds like a dude who's about 8 months from deconversion. He's smart, and seems honest...his Faith's days are numbered.

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

*Aron:* My problem with religion and the professionally religious is that its foundationally incorrect, dishonest and/or abusive. *Every religious interlocutor:* [going round the houses] hmm, well, maybe, yeh, but... *Me:* The "yeh" is enough. End of conversation. No good can follow the 'but.'

[@missk1697]

But its utilitarian pros can, in some time and circumstances, outweigh the cons. Tis about the only reasonable "but" I can imagine.

[@tschorsch]

@missk1697 the utilitarian benefit of religion only helps if that's compared against complete ignorance. It loses most of its value in a modern secular humanist context.

[@kennethc2466]

Well said. Especially when this Ben said, "Creationism is reasonable". I would NOT have let that drop. If that makes he 'rude' to the person claiming magic spells from a space wizard are reasonable, then I'd rather be that 'rude', than being an insufferable person who claims magic makes sense, because they simply said so, unexplained.

[@inyobill]

@@missk1697 "... utilitiatarian pros ..." only if demonstrably better than no religion, a proposition that at best is unproven. Lots of reason to not so believe.

[@MrCanis4]

Curiosity kill’s religion. This guy is, and good for him.

[@kennethc2466]

"Creationism is reasonable" -the 'curious' guy See, a really curious person would try to EXPLAIN creationism, the way a mechanic can explain a car. Since he is NOT curious, he deflects every single time, and questions evolution. That's why creationism is only 'explained' in church, to fellow tribesmen, and never to the 'blasphemers'...as they KNOW it's all BS, and they don't want the pain of the cognitive dissonance the 'non-believers' give them. Tribalism robs a sovereign human from their own identity and agency. It is reductive to all, sans the chieftain.

[@stylis666]

Don't get your hopes up. I forgot the name of the apologist but there's one that showed a lot of curiosity and talked to a lot of atheists about religion and now he just does podcasts with other apologists and uses his conversations to better strawman atheists.

[@kennethc2466]

@@stylis666 Seems a paying job in easy quackery will make the most 'curious' tribalist default to willful ignorance, and juvenile lies. The head of the Human Genome Project made more money selling a Christian apologist book, than he made in science. His 'rational reason' for justifying his believe in god, is that a frozen waterfall reminded him of the 'trinity'. How's that for 'science' and 'reason' for blind faith in the absurd, by a world renowned scientist?

[@blondequijote]

@@kennethc2466 ppl like word magic like that more than they do reality. That’s why Good Wizard sent the Holy Text that can magically transform fundamentalists of all kinds into hardened skeptics that reject revelation from a magical entity that is obviously smarter than they are.

[@kennethc2466]

@@blondequijote Run on sentence award of the year. Cheers! PS, is your few months old spam account getting you paid by someone, or is it just to demonstrate you have little else to do on planet earth? Genuine question.

[@gravitywaves2796]

I'm not sure Ben is going to ever give up his religion, but I think he could very well be educated out of his Young Earth Creationism beliefs. I'd love to see Aron take more time with him as he seems humble enough and willing to learn new information.

[@gowdsake7103]

True but he isnt prepared to drop god first, tho its noted not an iota of facts

[@bobthebox2993]

@@gowdsake7103 expecting people to drop God is asking a lot, educating people out of young earth creationism is way easier and more useful because of how easily it's disproven.

[@gowdsake7103]

@@bobthebox2993 Actually so is god ! The problem with theists is they dont require evidence. I noticed quite a few times he used the term BELIEVE in relation to evolution

[@bobthebox2993]

@@gowdsake7103 God can't be disproven though, it's unfalsifiable. This is exactly why God is unscientific, for something to be scientific it needs to be repeatably testable and there needs to be a way to disprove it. God can't be disproven exactly because it's unscientific. Saying that God is easily disprovable is just wrong. Meanwhile, creationism and the literal interpretation of the bible are things that are falsifiable, and have been disproven countless times. Edit: note that I am not disagreeing with you on that theists don't require evidence for their believes. Just addressing the start of your comment where you said that God is easily disprovable.

[@TheDragon-v7d]

@@gowdsake7103 you are gatekeeping so hard for no reason

[@ThorsDecree]

Benjamin looks like a carbon copy of me from 10 years ago and reminds me so much of myself from the past. I love his curiosity, super excited to see where this goes! Give your wife's snake some delicious body heat for me, Aron!

[@Bob-of-Zoid]

Not sure how old you are, but he looks like Phineas Freak, from "The Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers" comics of the 70's! Afro, octagon glasses... Spitting image I tell you!😂

[@aggdime5555]

@@Bob-of-Zoid hahaha excactly 100%😁

[@Bob-of-Zoid]

@@aggdime5555 Next Aron is going to have "Fat Freddy"🤠 on the show!

[@aggdime5555]

@@Bob-of-Zoid indeed or freeweelin franklin 😄

[@Bob-of-Zoid]

@@aggdime5555 I always wondered which came first Freewheelin franklin, or the "Keep on truckin'" guy?, because they both have that long step, lowered body walk going on.🤪

[@SteveDunn]

Really enjoyed this. Benjamin was great and, unusually, in these debates, a theist willing to listen. Aron as erudite and clear as ever. Hope you guys have another conversation soon.

[@stylis666]

Honestly, I don't. Benjamin shows that he can't help but redefining words like faith, faithfulness, evidence, justifiable, etc., and he shows that he does it because he goes to any length to justify his belief instead of questioning it. He simply refuses to wonder if his "evidence" warrants belief and instead of showing that it does he conflates words and contexts to just state over and over again: blind faith is a virtue and I want to be virtuous, therefor I have it. This will never go anywhere. I love watching these two mentally masturbate across of each other, but there won't be a climax, so this conversation has reached its maximum value already. It's useless to do it again.

[@whiteegretx]

Aron is on fire lately 😃

[@whichgodofthousandsmeansno5306]

He's on a mission from not god.

[@bills-7693]

He is 🔥

[@metalhead0274]

The walking catfish is a species that has developed a new trait that never existed in fish like its type before. A whole new genetic characteristic.. a primitive air sac lung in its stomach..it can swallow air aka breathe and absorb oxygen through that primitive air sac lung. That is a new trait it developed and not one that is available to turn on or off prior. So ...not sorry ... Walking catfish is a species we are watching right now literally evolve ..the first of its species when we first discovered them in late 60s to early 70s did not have this trait.. it has become a newly developed trait since then.

[@kellanstec]

Please do a part 2 Benjamin. This was a great productive conversation.

[@gowdsake7103]

only in that he MAY actually learn something other

[@cjgt77]

I learn something everytime I listen to Aron and others in his field. I don't learn a damn thing listening to creationist.

[@stylis666]

I've learned that creationists disagree with definitions of words just to allow more conflation to avoid just saying: blind faith is virtuous, that's why I have it. They seem to love dancing around it and manipulating and manipulating and manipulating. They're really good at it, but after a while it becomes so obvious that you "don't even see the code anymore", all I see is the manipulation, self deception, and the active practice of reinforcing the behaviours that reinforce that. Here's an example: The two gentlemen started off with talking about what faith is and means. Aron explains that the word has a gazillion meanings that shouldn't be conflated because blind faith without justification is dangerous -- because it leads to excuses for inflicting suffering and death and a dismissal of evidence that shows those to be bad for us as individuals and as a species/society/whatnot -- and being unclear about what you mean can be misleading. Benjamin then goes on to disagree that religions requires blind faith without explicitly rejecting or accepting that it's dangerous and deadly to have blind faith but his response does -- I think deliberately -- imply that he agrees that it's dangerous. Then, Benjamin starts asking about the word _faithfulness._ Do you see where I'm going with this? I sure hope so. With that, Benjamin adds another meaning with the sole purpose to imply it's a good word and that all actions under the umbrella of the word faith are good and healthy. I'll leave it there. Just do yourself a favour and let that go through your mind a couple of times. Watch those first couple of minutes of the conversation a couple of times. You'll see Benjamin do it several times before that apparent tangent of his and a couple of times after it until the subject of the conversation changes to evolution. This is just one of the more obvious examples. If it was the only one, my conclusion would be completely unjustified, but i noticed him doing it earlier, continue it, being called out for it and doubling down immediately with no show of self awareness of acknowledgement for anything that his conversation partner had just said three fucking seconds earlier. Benjamin isn't having a conversation there; he's only finding different manipulation tactics to justify self deception and believing that faith is a virtue in all cases instead of dangerous and deadly when it isn't warranted. Notice that he doesn't agree that it's dangerous but again manipulatively implies that he agrees by saying he says he thinks there is evidence to warrant belief. That is not an accident but a pattern in his behaviour. He does that every time he seems/pretends to agree with Aron but doesn't say so. Benjamin is a lying liar, lying his ass off in disgusting, manipulative ways.

[@fmlunchbox]

One reason I really enjoy your videos is because it's obvious you want to have an honest conversation. Even when he would kinda run dry on what to say, you'd remind him of things he said so the conversation could continue. It's crazy how well a conversation can go when two people are legitimately being honest with each other.

[@Cory_Springer]

It's quite refreshing when both people actually listen to each other

[@mcarp555]

Benjamin seems to think that without DNA for fossils, we can only assign them based upon their morphology. He's not considering where in the geologic column particular fossils are found. This can help trace evolutionary lineage by seeing how traits change over geologic time.

[@DaveCM]

Out of curiosity, I checked on dogs with retractable claws. There are three dog breeds with them according to my finding. Samoyed, Siberian Huskies and Alaskan Malamutes. And Foxes do have them as well. I learn something every day.

[@Mauricekaip]

This probably one of the best conversations on this channel. 10/10

[@Vadjong]

If you want the truth about life, take this to heart: 'Evolution works in explicable ways'. Yes, it gets convoluted (life is messy) and may feel counterintuitive (when your intuitions are naive or misdirected), but the pieces all fit (no magic). We would even confidently recognise it whenever we may find life on other worlds.

[@xxxxSylphxxxx]

I'd love to hear more from Benjamin. He feels authentic in his approach to discussing these concepts. Major Kudos, Benjamin. x

[@MrCanis4]

indeed, he listens, instead of putting his fingers in his ears and go la la la. respect.

[@tschorsch]

@joeandersen274 do you spout this 💩 to everyone?

[@gunsnsexdolls9800]

Ya he’s not born again Christian, you can’t get a word in if he was.

[@Bob-of-Zoid]

@Joe Andersen Hahahahaaaaaaaaaa!👹 Fool!👹👹👹

[@gunsnsexdolls9800]

@Joe Andersen If god desired all to be saved why did he allow so many story’s in the bible that are taken or plagiarized from other cultures long before?

[@peterhetherington914]

When approaching a chair to sit I have a “reasonable expectation” that the thing is fit for purpose, it does not require “faith”

[@sleepisthecousinofdeath7395]

Honestly. Why can’t believers just say they have faith, no evidence, but they have faith they hope there is a deity, they hope they picked the right religion and they do not know.

[@UninstallingWindows]

"... they hope they picked the right religion"

[@stylis666]

Oh, they sometimes do. They'll say whatever works to get people off their backs. They just think that their god will praise them for doing it. And at the start of the conversation Benjamin basically did that but didn't get Aron to agree that blind faith without evidence is a good thing, so Benjamin then pretended to value evidence, but he never said he does - he only implies it and already showed that he doesn't with his conflations and other bullshit that showed that his faith is without evidence and that he thinks it's a good thing, even after Aron already had called him out on that. Aron then had to do it again by explaining that faithfulness isn't the same context and that it's not always good. The whole reason for Benjamin to try that word was to emotionally manipulate Aron into agreeing because being faithful can be a good thing. With that he showed that he has faith, no evidence, but he has faith and he hopes his deity exists and loves hims for his submission of reason and evidence -- and humanity and integrity in my opinion -- But yeah, he never literally says it and to answer your rhetorical question, believers aren't honest to themselves or to others and they will manipulate first and keep dancing around things until they found what you want to hear and then they'll say or imply that, just to get you to stop asking questions and giving criticism. And even with Aron that works. Benjamin implied he cared about evidence and that changed the conversation, to Benjamin's great relief. The reason it works so well is because you can't pin him on anything he said. It's all in the implications and manipulations.

[@Sixfoot8m]

One of my favorite backgrounds Aron uses ⭐

[@NinjaJay_Arashikage]

Benjamin takes his Welcome Back Kotter cosplay REALLY seriously!

[@kholdanstaalstorm6881]

This was so good to listen to, I really hope there's a follow-up to this. Benjamin being open and receptive to Aron's opinions while bringing forth his opinions from his world view. No heated arguments that ends in a "agree to disagree" stance, just two people talking and discussing. Big props to Benjamin for being so calm and collected when Aron gives his understanding, while taking notes for further research. Thank you both Aron and Benjamin for doing this, I hope Benjamin will return when he is ready to share in his viewpoint at a later time.

[@ianchenofficial]

I’ve debated Benjamin before and if you see my previous debates with YEC it was essentially me trolling them. But Benjamin is such an authentic and polite individual our debate ended up being like this conversation with aron ra. Polite and friendly discussion. In fact I consider Benjamin now as a mate and we talk frequently. He’s what all YECs should aspire to be!

[@stylis666]

Authentic? Hm... interesting. So when people are conflating different uses of a word, get called out on it, and then deliberately do it again, that's authentic to you? When someone shows that they think that all uses and definitions are good in all contexts and then they imply agreeing with you that it isn't to manipulate you into thinking they agree with you when they evidently do not, that's authentic to you? I'm sort of pulling your leg. I think you are authentically blind to those manipulations and you are authentically manipulated successfully into thinking he shares the opinion that blind faith in a god is bad. He doesn't. Watch the first 5-10 minutes of this conversation again and see if he's being honest and authentic about his views. His way to get out of that is by saying he thinks he has evidence, manipulative implying he thinks it matters but he has shown over and over again in the minutes before that that he doesn't.

[@seanalexandre5299]

This was a great conversation. It seemed like Benjamin was genuinely interested in the subject and is open to new information. The fact that he understood that Kent Hovind is wrong (lying) about the definition of a vestige shows that he's sincere about learning. Aron is one of the major influences in my life that helped me discard the last bit of "faith" that I was trying to hold on to. I'm looking forward to the next conversation with Benjamin.

[@robinhood20253]

Ben, how did you determine that evolution did not carry much weight without knowing much about it? Why Evolution Is True by Jerry A Coyne is one of the best explanations of the aspects of evolution and the evidence. I salute you for your honesty.

[@robinhood20253]

Aron you are also a source of a wealth of information on evolution and snakes and thousands of other topics.

[@krankarvolund7771]

I've found that the only persons that says that evolution does not have much weight are the persons that don't know evolution. When you learn about evolution, you can't deny it anymore :D

[@BPHaru]

Benjamin is such an honest and easy to talk to person, I hope he comes back. Also, for a change, it's great to have a guest with better hair than Aron.

[@calasia7896]

At 15:17, nice Kent Hovind imitation Aron! 😅

[@lorihayes1419]

I actually think with a little time you could bring this guy into reality Aaron. He seems curious, and that is not something often present in religious people. Maybe there is hope for him. 😊He seems a decent enough guy, even though he’s been brainwashed. Nice conversation guys. Well done! 😊

[@daheikkinen]

There’s a lot of interesting hair in this video

[@cosmicvoid6202]

I liked this conversation. A creationist that actually listens to explanations about things he doesn't know and tries to make sense of what his side says when matched up to the evidence. We need more people willing to spin some gears in their brain instead of just saying "No, I'm right because I believe I'm right."

[@anubis9139]

I think this was one of the best, most respectful conversations I've seen on here. I absolutely loved it. Please have Benjamin back.

[@anubis9139]

Oh and as far as foxes go, they are fucking weird. They are the most cat like dogs out there. They have retractable claws like a cat; their whiskers are sensitive like cat whiskers; they have slit eyes like a cat; they hunt like cats; some can climb trees like cats; they have the same diet as cats; fox pups and new born kittens sound almost identical. The list just goes on.

[@davidwatson2399]

"Sparrow on the islands" Seriously 😣 FINCH dude FINCH.

[@tjarkschweizer]

Give him a break. He clearly didn't do a lot of research.

[@davidwatson2399]

@@tjarkschweizer Clearly zero research.

[@aubreyleonae4108]

Gods justice: Kids make fun of holy man, bears eat kids. Holy man preys on kids, bears eat kids after being abused by holy man.

[@oxcart4172]

This was great. The Christian actually listened to Aron, and both were very respectful

[@Jeff-dx3ql]

Aron, I can't wait for the next conversation between you two.

[@racebannon5523]

I think Benjamin would have fared better if he had a leg to stand on or a vestige

[@timfahey7127]

This is my Sunday morning service......thanks to both of you for this.

[@PGB55]

well, I think we proved that unicorns exist. A super nice, not liar, genuinely want to learn, respectful Christian who can have a conversation, know his limitations, and be a little funny. Thank you Aron for keeping cool and never condescending and treating him with mutual respect. I know you're not that type of person but having dealt with so many idiots that you do I would forgive you if you lost your cool but you didn't. I'm going to savor this video as it leaves a really good taste in one's mouth.

[@arnoldjohnson3317]

I knew several guys while in college in the 70’s that looked and thought similar to Ben. They were brilliant in their own minds.

[@lorihayes1419]

More of an evolution discussion. I did learn that fox have retractable claws, which I did look up to verify btw.

[@tommyheron464]

Me 2. Lol

[@kevinshort3943]

And the important bit is you looked it up to confirm, rather than just took someone's word for it.

[@PriceTag5447]

How unfaithful of you! 😉

[@00Skyfox]

So true about the speed of dogs. A mild trot for my dog is as fast as I can run. If she gets away off leash it just about gives me a heart attack to chase her down. And yesterday I saw a greyhound at the dog park running at near top speed. He looked like a cheetah running across that ground.

[@iansaxby9264]

Ben seems like a reasonable dude. I actually prefer discussions of this kind over ones where Aron or Matt tear a rude fundamentalist to shreds. And Ben, if you happen to read this: if you ever make it to New Brunswick, Canada, I'll happily buy you a beer.

[@partiallysightedpaul]

Great chat! I hope to see you two gentlemen continue your productive and polite conversation. I really enjoyed this. Thanks to both of you (and the snake).

[@darrendelaney8161]

faith is, induced belief in the face of facts to the contrary. faith and justified belief vary inversely.

[@WolfenBluestone]

I absolutely appreciate this. I love when there are conversations like this, good questions being asked, and the fact that he was genuinely listening and taking notes is really great. I can't even have conversations half this pleasant with the majority of my family members. I look forward to the next one! Keep up the good work.

[@TrappyJenkins]

I want aron ra to do an entire episode with his ken ham impression

[@nickyaerobones]

We'd be re watching it over again to catch the bits we missed as we were all laughing too much !😂😂

[@command.cyborg]

Benjamin has to be one of the good ones. Not only because he's pretty level headed, but he seems genuinely interested. -And he debated against the flat earth 😊

[@johnmcnairn6822]

great respectful conversation...well done both.

[@davidsmith-uw2ci]

Anything with a invisible man that watches everything you do and says love me or else should automatically disqualify it from being reasonable lol and not believing it should be a default position.

[@TirarADeguello]

17:00 he just dodges, it's over right there, and goes downhill from that. I really think this young man will eventually wake up.

[@Kammerliteratur]

Wonderful series. I like how you both really talk to eacb other and are really honest. Looking forward to more episodes.

[@Sciguy95]

I can't wait for the follow up. It's so rare to see someone who actually listens and doesn't just deny everything you say while insisting everything they claim is true regardless of reality.

[@Yorker1998]

I was just in the middle of watching an AronRa debate that was uploaded on Jan 20 2020 than I found this just now! Must have been a message from the beyond.

[@edrick106]

Every time he says "Sure" sounds like he's saying "Yeah i don't believe you"

[@TonyAragon79]

Completely out of no where, but Ben looks like Daniel Radcliffe as Weird Al in the biopic.

[@Jerseyboondocks]

Haha true

[@EdwardHowton]

Listening to Ben, he was absolutely uninterested in the conversation. Kept interjecting the correct noises, but didn't actually listen to a thing. He'd thoughtlessly say something, then thoughtlessly agree with Aron's response even though the implication of the response was directly faith-shattering and undermined his entire nonsensical belief, then he'd veer off into another asinine catchphrase he'd walk back seconds later. This was an attempt to "preach to a Seeker", not a conversation. He was trying to convert a target. A Nigerian Prince email with bad hair.

[@d.rayvenspencer]

You make a good point, then have to drop in a personal attack on race and appearance. YOU are definitely going to make the world a better place!

[@missk1697]

So much hate on a dude you don't even know in person

[@EdwardHowton]

@@d.rayvenspencer On race? What, because of the Nigerian thing? Are you unfamiliar with the scam literally called _Nigerian Prince Email Scam_ or something? Are you stupid children so desperate to see racism everywhere that you cultivate ignorance of commonly known types of fraud? And he does have bad hair. I'm sorry you're too emotionally incompetent to handle an observation. Maybe try going back to pre-kindergarten and getting socialized properly with real infants instead of just being a goddamn infant your entire life, kid. Better yet, take your pills and shut the hell up, the adults are talking.

[@EdwardHowton]

@@missk1697 Save it for your cult meetings. Watch the video, watch Ben's behavior. He's constantly changing subject, never listens, and always deflects into irrelevant stories instead of addressing how wrong he is. That's not hate, you insipid twit, it's demonstrable behavior. I'm so sick of you goddamn brainless infants signaling your nonexistent virtue for no goddamn reason with these platitudes. Grow the fuck up or tell your comrade you want to do something constructive with your miserable life and go plant some sunflower seeds in Ukraine with the other troll trash.

[@sphericalchess]

Straightaway, despite Aron asking for evidence for his position, our guest attempts to undermine evolution. This is always a red flag, where the person thinks that if they can discredit evolution (which they can’t) then their fairytale wins by default. Hence they never have to talk about evidence for their creation myth.

[@waynecatterton5127]

I have to give a great big Thank You to Benjamin for having an honest conversation. No yelling, screaming, but just plain discussing. This is the way these should go.

[@shtirlh7825]

In my 1st year undergraduate geology class we went to an Australian Aboriginal camp site where they made stone tools. 5000 years ago. Carbon dating is suitable for working this out. But also the stone they used is only found in the ocean about 40km away. The old river system can be seen below the ocean where the delta used to be during an ice age. The stone was collected then. Interesting there are now two islands nearby that where connected then but now are separate and the native Quokkas are different on each island as they have been isolated for thousands of years. I didn’t read about this in the bible. I had to go and see it for myself. Almost like evidence.

[@HiveSci]

39:46:00 South American Raccoon cousins are the coatimundis, and kinkajou. Only the grey fox has have partially retractable claws.

[@AronRa]

Thanks for that reminder.

[@HiveSci]

@@AronRa coatis are the ones that look like sauropods when you rewind them. 😂

[@George89999]

Benjamin was correct about foxes having retractable claws but it's technically semi-retractable. They usually look similar to a dog's nails but they can extend to help with climbing (the Grey Fox is as good at climbing as a cat), digging, and extra traction while running for faster turns. As an interesting side note there have indications that in places where foxes live in close proximity to humans (such as London's "urban foxes") that they are sort of self-domestication as those less afraid of humans have greater access to food.

[@jameswright...]

Foxes are actually closer to cats than dogs.

[@George89999]

@@jameswright... In terms of their survival strategy and personality (foxes and cats are both solo hunters) they are more similar to cats but otherwise that isn't correct. Foxes are members of the taxonomic family Canidae, the same as dogs, wolves, and coyotes. Cats are members of the taxonomic family Felidae. So foxes are much more closely related to dogs. Sorry.

[@jameswright...]

@@George89999 nope! Caine yes but closer to cat, we are closer related to tuna than a tuna to a lamprey fish. I never said they wasn't dogs but have more in common with cats because closer. Try again my fellow ape.

[@George89999]

@@jameswright... You're the one making the claim which contradicts not only experts in the field but a large body of evidence. Please provide credible citations of evidence which supports your claim, preferably from peer-reviewed papers if possible. I'm open to possibly accepting your claim but you're going to have to do better than making baseless assertions to be convincing.

[@jameswright...]

@@George89999 Nope! I'm just saying what known... the cat branched off 1st from common ancestor to dog's and cats and foxes are closer to the original animal. It's you going against so if anyone needs to provide anything It's not me.

[@dreamworld3319]

This actually seemed like a productive discussion!

[@stylis666]

Seemed! Bingo :D It did seem so, but the start of the conversation already showed that Benjamin isn't interested in honest conversation but is just looking for excuses to justify blind faith in a malignant narcissist and having evidence as a back up so in conversations he can imply that he agrees that blind faith is bad while never explicitly saying that it is and actually believing the exact opposite. He's looking for tools to solidify his beliefs and to keep critics off of his back that could undermine his beliefs and make him honestly question them. But I do really love that you said _seemed_ where so many people in the comments said it _is_ a productive conversation - it wasn't.

[@ryanhannan395]

@Aronra - always enjoy your videos. In the conversation about what dogs get out of the relationship with humans, I'm sure you have researched the hyenas in the village in Ethiopia that are fed by the villagers? It might've been in your evolution of dogs video, but I only have so much time in a day to watch your videos. Thanks!

[@rasferrastfarian739]

A nice, civilised discussion. Hopefully Ben will learn, think and give up his "faith" as a result.

[@arttusepanheimo4909]

Wasn't expecting him to be a creationist

[@richardpage777]

Enjoyable conversation but I really wished Ben got to his actual arguments not just stretching out the conversation. Looking forward to part 2

[@ericmishima]

Looking forward to part 2.

[@ClementGreen]

When you escape from a delusion and the scales fall from your eyes, it's not traumatic at all: it's a great relief and very empowering.

[@mdug7224]

It's nice to listen to these open conversations. I find it helps build a better perspective of what people think about development of species. Here's a little hypothesis regarding evolution in real time (I am probably not the first to think it): Webbed toes: The increase in the amount of flesh between the phalanges reduces risk of frostbite due to increased circulation of warm blood and so reduces risk of gangrene; increases traction and weight distribution so increases distance endurance. Web-toe has no pressure to be selected out so the gene will proliferate. If our species were to lose our technology used to overcome selection pressure, would we end up with comfortable feet and fewer stubbed toes?

[@vegasflyboy67]

I'm going to predict that if Ben keeps this up, he's going to see behind the veil and see reality.

[@davidschneide5422]

The man, the myth, the legend... Aron-Effin-Ra

[@cindysecor4667]

great job Aron, keep it up for sanity's sake

[@abuelo4977]

These discussion might feel incremental or repetitive for Aron to endure, but I truly appreciate access to these videos. Please know that Aron is not only helping to raise Benjamin's skepticism, he is also demonstrating how we might engage superstitious, pridefully ignorant, possibly dangerous, and often Deplorable, Christian Nationalists in more productive conversation. I obviously need tremendous improvement.

[@charleycreeps6791]

Good guy. Actually taking it all in and learning some things. Really enjoyed this.

[@christiangrn9642]

Wonderful discussion please bring him back 😃 I think he might actually try to Lauren

[@manifold1476]

23:16 Ben: "So, let me (let me- uh) try to chase out a logical thought here." (and uh - we'll just see where it goes)

[@donnanobel514]

Arthur Darvill is sporting a Bob Ross look now? Nice interaction by the way.

[@strider_hiryu850]

~40 minute mark: fun fact about retractable claws: the Cheetah is the only Feline without retractable claws, iirc. so the fox and the cheetah are like mirror reflections of each other. or perfect antis. the cheetah is the anti-fox. the fox is the anti-cheetah. counters. 1:05:34 really good conversation

[@laurajarrell6187]

I like the anti cheetah, anti fox, lol. Great points! What got me was first time hearing a cheetah meow, exactly like a domestic cat! I've heard a lion and a tiger chuffed, growl, and roar, all literally vibrate your organs, if near. But then this sweet "meow?" From something that was that big and powerful? Blew me away! Oh, and foxes make weird as all get out sounds, worse than coyote! Way worse. lol 👍💙💖🥰✌

[@krankarvolund7771]

@@laurajarrell6187 Yeah cheetahs are big but they're in the small cat family, while lions, tigers etc... are in the big cats family. Cheetahs can also purr but not roar, big cats can roar but not purr ^^

[@strider_hiryu850]

@@laurajarrell6187 i now one of them screams like bloody murder

[@MarcoMeerman]

What a great conversation!

[@a787fxr]

Dogs are clearly our best friends. !:- )

[@Vadjong]

No. Your gut bacteria are.

[@tschorsch]

@Vadjong I don't want to know how you pet your gut bacteria!

[@Vadjong]

@@tschorsch Feed them something nice! 🍧

[@Phoenix-ej2sh]

Listening to this conversation, I think I hit on an idea of faith vs. confidence that might make sense. I think the meaningful distinction is that with faith has sort of an auto-verification effect. What I mean by this is that when faith is called for and when one has faith, the object of that faith is bolstered by the faith itself. A good example would be faith in our system of justice, for example. Our system of justice ultimately depends upon our belief in it. Without that, it will eventually break down. (This is why sovcits are so incredibly dangerous to the integrity of society) The contrast would be trusting in a chair to hold your weight. Your trust has absolutely no effect on the structural integrity of that chair. Chair design and engineering are not social institutions whose composition is dependent on a critical level of common agreement. When one has faith in religious propositions, therefore, one is not simply accepting those propositions. One is buttressing them. In a fundamental way, one is *creating* them. This is why faith is so stringently promulgated and defended in religious circles.

[@ZarchAlDain]

Really enjoyed that. So nice to hear a conversation not people shouting at each other - and learned some interesting snippets about dogs and cats. :)

[@stilltraceable6753]

I agree with Aron's way of disbelieving unproven falsehoods

[@redearth8256]

Bens biggest doubt is that he believes no new information has been seen in the DNA. He was trying to ask that around 50 mins but Aron missed it and didn't get a chance at the end, Ben conveniently had to go. Creationists think something impossible like a cat turning into a dog is evolution, but a simple change in the foot leading to two different lines like dogs and bears is a good illustration that evolution is much more simple than they realise.

[@ericcraig3875]

Watched 75%. The theist successfully ran from the debate and supplying evidence for christianity. He just became a free science student. Lol. He almost said nothing.

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

Then the nonsense starts.

[@FellVoice]

You should have this guy back and talk about the Enuma Elish and the Epic of Gilgamesh and it's relationship to the origins of the bible.

[@thomasridley8675]

Myths are myths and should be treated as such. So theirs shouldn't get special consideration just because they want their myth to be true.

[@racebannon5523]

I that guy reminds me of Bob Ross, I was waiting for him to bring up a happy little God.

[@poohbear3027]

I gave up at the 45 minute mark. Seemed more like a conversation about biology and evolution. Ben deflecting all of AronRa's questions "we'll get back to that" and then nitpicking evolution.

[@FeeFyeFoeLLC]

Ben tries to poke holes in a well established scientific theory, but will accept the Creation perspective which has never been proven. Makes a lot of sense... 😂

[@jackalope839]

49:54 made me make elephant sound out my nose. I've never seen a soft ball go clean through someone skull before,

[@tbdaemon]

Aron, I've been a fan of yours going on almost 20 years now and I've begun to notice a few things about your style and your personal philosophy. To keep a long post short, have you considered getting yourself an assessment for autism spectrum disorder? It helped me a lot 👍

[@ThatGuy-ot1gt]

I was surprised how honest Ben seemed. I hope he's smart enough to really listen to Aron

[@BenDover-tj8vf]

I have been watching your many films for a long time now , you come over as a gentle , kind , trustworthy, honest , intelligent coll human being , plus you have dogs and if dogs like you then you have my vote . Long may you continue on your quest . Greetings from the UK 🇬🇧

[@FR099Y]

Honestly think Ben should stop watching Kent Hovind. and spend that time watching Aron's educational videos on what evolution actually is. Nothing of what Aron said here has not already been covered years ago in previous videos.

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

Or watch those vs videos.

[@l0nedrow427]

well played sir. I like Ben, I have seen him on modern day debate before and he seems like an honest good-faith debater but his views on evolution are so skewed and the well has been so poisoned with him concerning evolution that it may take years of these talks before he starts to concede. Keep with it!

[@NinjaJay_Arashikage]

I've always liked hearing Benjamin in debates, although I completely disagree with his positions. But he is usually the more level headed creationist in debates, if such a thing is possible. Always receptive to new information, and doesn't at all come off as dishonest. I EAGERLY await the next interaction between he and Aron. This is what conversations about sensitive topics SHOULD look like. Well done to both.

[@brunozeigerts6379]

I've read that piranhas aren't as deadly as shown in the movies. That attacks on humans are more in the case of a few bites in defense of brooding territory.