Discovering Ancient Board Games - Jaipur Literature Festival

Irving Finkel
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[@ParsaB1]

To cameraman: when you're invited to film lectures, you're basically asked to document the event with everything involved, and in this case not filming the slides destroyed %80 of the purpose and has made it just a memorable video instead of an educational and memorable one.

[@shanegarm]

I was a little frustrated by that too. But I think 80 precent is a little harsh. This is still just as educational.

[@shanegarm]

On second watch, it appears that they have two camera angles. I just noticed an example where they show the visual on the screen, and it looks like a different angle. So it would seem it's the fault of the editor for choosing not to show the slides. You can see what I mean at 26:17.

[@clairebuckley7377]

@@shanegarm I agree, it was the editing. The camera filming the screen should have been zoomed into screen more too, and set up on a better angle if possible

[@derikjohnson2232]

Agreed. The editor/camera man should have done a better job.

[@seed_of_the_woman]

you don’t know many desi people, i will guess. 🙂 love, david

[@lyndarlehane582]

Cameraman mesmerised by beard...forgot to show us the slides.. result...deep frustration to the interested viewer.

[@ericelliott6654]

It's a terrible shame! I'm considering writing to Dr. Finkle and asking for copies of the slides if he still has them!

[@VonOzbourne]

Aw man. I noticed the first one (that I really really wanted to see) and was compelled to scroll down. Now I'm disappointed that it appears there will be more.

[@lampanish]

yes..beard stroking is not needed.

[@beauisrael9724]

i know Im randomly asking but does someone know of a trick to log back into an Instagram account..? I somehow forgot my password. I would appreciate any assistance you can give me

[@merrickabdiel9952]

@Beau Israel instablaster =)

[@taith2]

Irving is true gamer

[@BawlzOfuzz]

Irving Finkel is a legend. I could listen to him for hours and hours on end.

[@ablemason461]

He is creating a false narrative

[@BawlzOfuzz]

@@ablemason461 how so mate?

[@ablemason461]

@@BawlzOfuzz @BawlzOfuzz he stated that India invented the game of Backgammon / Chess / and Ur !! And that to me and any logical archaeologist / scientist/ historian is just unfounded!! he has no conclusive evidence to backup his statement yet it is doesn't seem to phase him - to misappropriate the identity of the Iranians and Arab/ Turkish speakers from that region by making such a grandeous claim that these games were invented by Indians!!! An identity formed by the British Empire !! Congratulating and patting the backs of a group of people that had limited understanding of ancient Babylonia/Persia/Assyria/Egypt/Sumeria/Mesopotamia- and warping history to best suite his audience!! furthermore unless that group are made up of predominantly Parsis - his comments a politically charged - as appose to a neutral perspective and commentary of the past! I realise he is a curator of the British Museum - which has accumulated/looted the wealth of other nations for so long - then repackaged said identities or modified said civilisations narratives to meet the requirements of present day political agendas - But the REALITY is - for me that ever cha going story of the past to meet the present day political narratives - only cheapens him and historical writing as a whole! I suppose what I am trying to say is I am not saying someone from the nation we now refer to as India didn't have something to do with making board games!! but I find it fundamentally politically charged to tell people that live 1000s of miles away from Mesopotamia- and Ur and give them sole ownership and heirs to the throne of board games - it's just another example of how badly the west wants to delete and omit the identity of the people of the middle East and claim it either as their own or members of their common wealth!! Alas even though the colonies are gone deep down in most Brits there is a deep yearning for an era which was not only violent but also unjust and cruel to the majority both in Britain and it's Colonized subjects

[@BawlzOfuzz]

@@ablemason461 Fair enough. Each to their own. I still maintain that Irvine Finkle is a legend and that I can listen to him for hours.

[@ablemason461]

@@BawlzOfuzz what does that have to do with anything - I like the sound Einaudi makes - doesnt mean I would throw out logic and historical correctnous for his whims! people liked the paintings of Hitler - in my view his role in providing Germany with amazing military uniforms / architecture / and giving everyone jobs was amazing - he too also won hearts and mind with his ability to speak - doesn't mean I agree with his politics or his understanding of history !

[@kosnk]

To get some context on the game of Ur, I would highly recommend watching " *Tom Scott vs Irving Finkel: The Royal Game of Ur* " where rules and the gameplay are shown.

[@pagerhoads1531]

That video popped up on my feed I am going to watch it next

[@patrickday4206]

Yeah it was good

[@prajeetbhatt8491]

The history teacher we all want

[@DanWilliamson_profile]

I wish I had this man to teach me history when I was a kid.. or really anything at all! :D

[@HenryMcGuinnessGuitar]

Couldn't agree more - but we've got him on KZbin quite a lot, and some of the other educational videos put there are similarly inspiring (I'm thinking mainly of the original Extra History videos). Charismatic teachers make all the difference...

[@5Andysalive]

You would have gotten a very biased knowledga about Ancient Egypt from him :)

[@Enders]

He found the stuff he "discovered" in the storage rooms of a museum. just FYI.

[@kosnk]

Irving Finkel is amazing!

[@EpicFishStudio]

Its so sad that they edited half of the slides to not show.

[@mechanicandskills7215]

not edited the camera guy went for a pee

[@Jrez]

@@mechanicandskills7215 The camera for the slides doesn't even need an operator, it doesn't have to move.

[@stephenknight2891]

I could "time pass" by watching videos of Irving Finkel all the time!

[@patrickday4206]

I know he's so good at engaging the people and knowledgeable!

[@Siberius-]

That was a great talk. Wish we saw more of the slides. Irving would make for a good tattoo.

[@cybrace]

I'm an avid watcher of Tom Scott and have first seen Irwin on his channel. I'm now amazed that Irwin and I are in the same city at the same time without my knowledge. This is a truly brilliant old man who can somehow make history look cool. I really wish I attended this class the audience doesn't seem to have understood his British humor.

[@geoffhellman4780]

He's not so old.

[@donitaforrest9064]

Very interesting point: It seems that board games started from Neolithic stone age tool makers and Egyptian quarry workers and masons, games with playing pieces began with what to do with all those lovely chunks of marble & bits of jet, not to mention ivory, bones and teeth. Fascinating.

[@jennifersilves4195]

I can’t get enough of this man.

[@dazuk1969]

I have watched a couple of these lectures now...Mr Finkle defiantly has one fan to add to the masses.

[@prof.m.ottozeeejcdecs9998]

defiantly? or definitely???😉

[@spiceyicey]

@@prof.m.ottozeeejcdecs9998 Defiantly.

[@sugarnads]

How does.one be.a defiant fan

[@MargotDobbie]

Who the hell adds their titles to their youtube name... self important snob much.

[@MrTitian]

Great Irving Finkel! 👍

[@patrickday4206]

He so personable he's wonderful Lyme bloke he should have his own history tv show! I'm a yank from across the lake and love watching his videos breaking down ancient cuneiform!

[@andrewgardner1535]

I absolutely love this guy! So fun to listen to

[@ablemason461]

Fun to listen - yet he is pushing. A false narrative

[@Dreymasmith]

I was born in Bangladesh and when my family came to Australia my parents brought with them a commercial parchesi board. I grew up with this and had no idea Ludo was a bastardised relative. We also played Mah Jjong ad infinitem, and I got into Go as a teenager. My kids aren't as interested in board games as I was, but they do enjoy Mah Jjong. The board games they do like are cooperative ones, like Arkham Horror, etc. where all the players have to work together.

[@shadowsandfire]

I wish i could have Irving Finkels mind for a day!

[@yeahman147]

Love this man's passion and library of information for lost or stolen times. Always learn something, a truely amazing knowledgeable and characteristics being

[@error.418]

are the slides available anywhere? because it's a tragedy that the film cuts so many out.

[@CrimsonVipera]

Love this man. People like this should be teachers exclusively. I agree that digitising board games can be horrible. Especially if you're supposed to play against AI. But with me being half a continent away form some friends and with the pandemic now I'm kind of grateful that I can go online and we can still have game nights.

[@andzzz2]

I wonder if games of chance may have been used for divination as well as fun and that is part of the reason you can find the boards around temples. Even today people are superstitious about randomness, blowing on dice and asking for divine intervention etc. If the skill levels of two players cancel each other out, winning a game of chance would be a sign that it is an auspicious day and you are in the gods' favour. Being lucky in a game means you are lucky in general and your prayers/offerings might be more successful as well as what you are praying/offering for.

[@jowilson5581]

Absolutely yes. For a great modern example, you can go looking for people who practice "esoteric mahjong", for instance. And when it comes to Go, it was very popular in Buddhist monasteries because the board was said to be a reflection of the universe itself. Monks would play the game in an unusual fashion, trying not to fight with each other or capture pieces, looking for enlightenment through their play. Though a part of me suspects that's just an excuse, something they'd tell the head monk so they could get away with having something fun.

[@andzzz2]

@@jowilson5581 Thanks for the really interesting reply. I really like what you said about the Go and the monks. I've played it a bit myself and it can seem to play itself if you're not being overly competitive. Almost like how a good conversation seems to twist and turn itself in the most unexpected and unfathomable directions. It's easy to imagine the hand of something greater at work. Go has the additional benefit of being able to visually retrace the steps leading to the finished board, which itself can be quite mesmerisingly beautiful. What you said about the monks making spiritual excuses for their fun made me chuckle. I bet that is a factor in a lot of religious practice and might even colour theology too. Perhaps thinking fun and the holy are mutually exclusive is a particularly Christian idea, though I suppose a degree of po-facedness is a universal requirement of religion. As it happens, my dad wrote a book on this very topic called Buddhism in Life. Though I am ashamed to say I never read it, I do remember him telling me the village monk where he did fieldwork in Sri Lanka would take long afternoon naps while purportedly meditating. Something he freely admitted to my dad, if not the villagers. Never heard esoteric Mahjong. Sounds intriguing. Is it a bit like tarot cards?

[@brothertaddeus]

47:13 is why Dr. Finkel is a legend.

[@tatianabeastmode6573]

"Just a minute I'm talking!"

[@Moamanly]

I enjoyed the question and answer session as much as the lecture.

[@raizelm1578]

Fascinating! Enjoyed every moment.

[@MargotDobbie]

Dont care about slides...i just like to listen to this genius as I fall asleep.

[@error.418]

57:25 I think chess, in comparison to Go, is more portable (fewer pieces, smaller board) and simpler in concept (a battle instead of a war, simpler in concept, not a critique of game mechanic complexity) which leads to it being easier to travel and spread, and the victory condition is far easier to understand. Also, having the more animated, character-like pieces of chess leads to an easier story of mind, whereas Go is so simple in its pieces, it is more abstract and doesn't lend itself as easy to story. I see these as the key reasons for its larger popularity over Go, although I also see this as somewhat unfortunate. I think Go has much deeper life lessons.

[@MisterMomotaro1996]

It may also have something to do with India having more contact with the western world than China, especially because of Islam.

[@BoomBoomGuy69]

Dr Finkel is amazing!

[@DilipMutum]

Thanks to the person who put this up. Really enjoyed it. Watching this in 2020.

[@ffabris]

Thank you for posting! He is always amazing and fun to listen to. :-)

[@chesskid1635]

Irving Finkel a legend

[@vaclavslajch9879]

Dudes, not seeing the slides of a lecture... really?

[@glutinousmaximus]

A fascinating talk by a VERY fascinating person! Thanks for posting! :0)

[@Jrez]

Really wish we got more shots of the slides, feels like only a fraction of his slides are shown.

[@RehabProjectSRCB]

I'm pretty sure we see them all, because he says next for each and then we see it, though only briefly sadly.

[@Bobbydazzlla]

@@RehabProjectSRCB Pretty sure you mustn't have watch all of it because I was thinking the same thing - and we don't get to see all of the slides.

[@JamesCrouchX]

I remember month long RISK battles. Seriously, good thing we didn't have cats growing up.

[@Chokwik]

love this presentation.. i've been a part of developing a few mini games, and i find it a pleasure to play simple games that have countless ways to play it, and ofcourse surprises.! games like monopoly and many modern 'video games' are very dull and frustrating… computing power is just not the same as creativity

[@leekestner1554]

In the Oazark Mountains in Nortewest Arkansas and southwest Missouri the people made their own version of parcheesi out of wood and marbles and renamed it Yahoo. You cried Yahoo when you finally got you pieces to move into the center. If you forgot and someone called you on it you could be made to return to your last square. You rolled 2 dice and if you rolled double 6's you could roll again and add the numbers. From the base houses you had to roll a 5 to enter the board. If you overtook another player and landed on their square you would send them back to their home square. The first to get all four pieces in the center wins.

[@customsdoctor7168]

Thank You so Much for this video and presentation

[@moritzcornehl4365]

his opinion on the trend of cooperative board games would have been interesting.

[@serinad9434]

He's said that they're not really proper games - the essence of gaming is, for him, the competitive gaming of one on one - any other form (including groups against groups or multi player like 3 or 4 players) is basically a weak corruption of that purity.

[@westronic]

This is really cool! I hope the literature festival does keep growing.

[@cherirael1409]

Love this but its a damn shame they didnt put the camera on all the slides

[@imadethismistake]

Was being gorgeous a prerequisite for asking the questions? Everyone is beautiful!

[@cillianennis9921]

I completely agree with his end remarks. when I look up board games I want to find these kind of games that have stood the test of time are so simple you can learn how to play within a few hours but it takes a lifetime to master it. they don't have complicated designs but there abstract design allows the player to fill in the blanks of what happens & the rules aren't written down but spoken so when convenient are changed & they live & breath with the cultures that make & share them not with the cold company that milks them for all the money they are worth with a hundred redesigns of the game Monopoly for example. It's kinda like Uno the company may say the rules but nobody cares you can stack +2 & +4 cards & you can have rules like 0 makes the hands of everyone swap in direction of play. 7s allow you to switch hands with someone else or even the deck as I once played it as in the end a card game is owned by the players not the company & so they change it as they want. Also a great example of this is Jack Change it which on the Wikipedia page has a load of its variations on it as somebody put in the time to ask people around Northern Ireland the rules & jot them down to end up with the wide range of variations showing a card game that is alive in the culture.

[@zeropointconsciousness]

"Go Irving!" "Easy the Fink!"

[@Jazzgriot]

Excellent stuff.

[@tracychristenson177]

I don't think that electronic versions of board games are so bad. I play them when I can't get players for physical board games. I've seen some electronic version of historical board games like Senet, and I think that can be an effective way to introduce new people to games that they otherwise might not have heard of.

[@oldibarra-tutu2253]

Great lecture, who would have thought - ‘plastic’ what could go wrong !

[@skywalkerneoblade]

Erving Kinkel is a treasure.

[@angelmanuelvilar]

We were playing before we became place bound. We had more free time when we were hunter gatherers. Agriculture only brought hardship.

[@sameash3153]

Based!

[@Leftyotism]

with this dude i only need audio : >

[@trexpaddock]

but. . . but . . . . Epic Beard!!

[@hadesolympus6069]

understanding that muggles were not much experienced this occasion first hand quite often but it is very frustrated indeed that we rarely get to see the slides

[@johnchappell2086]

There is an idea that has grown amongst humanity that what we do on a small scale and in limited time can influence our lives on a larger scale. Hence rituals and games are played to somehow mimic those events that are beyond our apparent influence in the hope that by recreating them we can extend our influence, or perhaps just learn how to play well, to find out what works on a small scale before entering the greater field.

[@samsalamander8147]

John Chappell what are you saying I’m lost? Game theory?

[@jeffdavidson6689]

Hes got a lovely enchanting beard but it would be nice to see the slides

[@fortuitousthings8606]

it also suggests there was a cultural change at the time it went out of fashion possibly invasion, regime change religious upheaval or some other political debacle

[@chrisofnottingham]

Many complaints in the comments but thank you for posting this.

[@ShubhamBhushanCC]

FUCK HE WAS IN MY HOME TOWN FUCK! I LOVE THIS GUY

[@SINC0MENTARI0S]

What a bad audio. And couldn't the camera be placed somewhere else so as to capture the slides? or couldn't the video producer interpose the slides? Seriously, it's not necessary to see Dr. Finkel all the time. He surely intended us to see the slides as well.

[@trentonarney6066]

Weird is it not? A room full of tech support and these technical issues still get in the way of a presentation.

[@patrickkeller2193]

I studied computer science, you should have seen some of my lectures...

[@MidtownSkyport]

I agree that we needed to see more of the slides, but I think he kept stepping between the screen and the camera that was filming it so they couldn't use that footage.

[@SINC0MENTARI0S]

Right, but the producer can always edit the video to interject the slides.

[@MidtownSkyport]

I imagine he had about a hundred of these to do and a day and a half to do it in, and no way (or inclination, to be honest) to easily track down Dr Finkel to have him supply the slides

[@fokkenhotz1]

Dr F I could play parcheesi on that board.. are you sure of these fantastic implications to the game ?? and actually checkers can be played on it as well. And GO works here too amazing

[@neonte13]

@1:00:31 I think the cultural benefit of wordplay games like Scrabble and crosswords is probably quite vague and scattered. These competition games... race games, war games, etc. teach strategy, but in my opinion, (I am making leaps and guesses.) they also build up the idea of compromise. The idea that one can strategize in all sorts of ways, even losing ground but potentially going on to win, seems crucial to compromise... and compromise could mean the difference between your family or tribe metaphorically breaking its own leg and going on to die, that winter, or surviving and eventually healing over the old hurt feelings. By the time things are better again, you may not remember that you were planning to screw the "opponent" over as soon as you got a good chance, but things are better... you benefited because you were at least able to think ahead in some manner or another. If there are examples of early wordplay games, I'd love to find out more! If you broaden it out to toungey toys, in general, there's certainly a broad and great history of creativity and poetry, but I've never heard of any actual games, and even today, the "genre" seems splintered and shriveled and dry and largely vacant of the real childlike imagination and bewilderment at physics which echo through real wordplay. I don't mind a crossword and other similar games, and I don't even mind losing at Scrabble literally every time. I just haven't seen anyone crack the gamification of real wordplay. (as I see it)

[@donitaforrest9064]

TROGLODITE TRENDS: How to Recycle Leftover Bits of Stone from hammer making into a fireside game.

[@tristanbaravraham6349]

Any chance of a link to a PowerPoint of the slides?

[@whiskeytangosierra6]

Anyone know of any correlations between New World games and Old World games?

[@MarcusWolschon]

Awww, so many slides we can't see.

[@thaache]

Could u pls share the ppt. Thankyou

[@alasdairwhyte6616]

where are the slides???

[@shirleymorrison9047]

What is the point if you can't see the slides?

[@gastonjabaly]

He has access to 100k tablets andtalks about fucking board games lol

[@boredwarlock5216]

Irving Finkel is actually god

[@sirbattlecat]

I will build a shrine and burn 1 dice upon it every evening.

[@dorianphilotheates3769]

Bored Warlock - Irving Finkel created GOD out of water and clay and breathed life into HIM one day when he got bored because he had misplaced his mehen pieces.

[@t.k.abrams4720]

50:40 That's a pretty ridiculous viewpoint. He's so interested in preserving culture, yet the one we live in now is somehow garbage? Technology is increasing our ability to preserve culture, especially board games. It's not the end of culture at all. In fact, now that there are so many videos, pictures, and blogposts about all the things he works so hard to preserve, those things will be alive as long as the internet is alive, which is at least another hundred years lol

[@IdeaBoxful]

Are you sure?. Having access to information at your fingertips, is not about having meaning and thereby wisdom. And digital storage is the most fragile of all. If we hit a catastrophe, the moment we loose power.. the internet will start to shutdown. Computer storage is fragile, and without power and climate control, it won't last beyond a decade. Our concrete buildings won't out weather for more than 200 years, entropy you see. Steel will rust out to ground. Isn't it a fact that cuneiform tablets from Sumeria, lasted because they were made of clay or chiselled into rock in some cases. Technology of Modern society is terrible when it comes to entropy.. The only product that may outlast is plastic shopping bags and disposable plastic bottles with brand names on it floating around in the ocean or worse strewn around in land fills. So much for our legacy..

[@IdeaBoxful]

We have taken most of the ancient artefacts from where they were naturally preserved and put them in climate controlled glass cubicles. Now once power is gone, they will deteriorate. Maybe some in underground bunkers.. but remember what happens to paper when dampness come in, which it eventually will. Maybe data on compact discs, if they were pressed instead of the ones you write on computer drives, because they are chemical dyes which doesn't last more than a couple of years. Solid state storage like Nand flash etc lose their static charge again in a couple of years unless rewritten, that is why many of our embedded devices stop working within a few years. Infact magnetic media is better if we can hermetically seal them.

[@IdeaBoxful]

And a hundred years is a flash in the pan of historical time!

[@ahmedsami159]

This man is an idiot

[@tammrablaine579]

Does Dr. Finkle remind anyone else of the librarian from Page Master?

[@Seeds-Of-The-Wayside]

What's the name of the wolf and sheep game that was scratched everywhere?

[@koko6600]

Bone dice still to this day used by iraqi children especially in the south of iraq to play all kind of games, i as iraq 1979 i played one violent game called the judge,lawyer and thief the looser with bone dice get what the judge punishment which was usually 5 strikes of plastic or leather slippers LOL

[@luizanaslyan4121]

21:15 second Millenium culture could not be Turkey, because it was Armenia...

[@cibetka76]

Board games were fun, most of us grew up on them and had great moments with them. But.. nowadays a strategy game on computer is something so complex, entertaining, visually impressive, that the board games, even chess, look like some kid game from stone age, and they cant compare in any way. Ofc many people who love chess (i do also) will be angry and say it has millions of combinations, but even simple strategy will have more kinds of units/pieces with more abilities in movement and behavior, many more types of settings/boards, and far more complex rules, making chess seem restrictive and limited, even autistic in a way. Only way I can imagine ever playing a board game nowadays is if there would be some earthquake and no electricity... its better then nothing then.

[@SilverionX]

Is that why the board game industry keeps growing every year? I think a lot of people do enjoy getting together with friends and family over something that's not on a screen, it's a sort of reaction to everything being on a computer nowadays. Also modern board games are very diverse, and surprisingly perhaps, quite fun. :)

[@spiceyicey]

the description says it all

[@london19657]

Sound went bad then refused to show slides,, bloody awful and I really wanted to see this.

[@vaanar843]

This happened in Jaipur???

[@toota1052]

Thank you from Mesopotamia

[@AnamLiath]

I would've gotten MUCH more from the presentation if the camera person could've been bothered to show the damn slides.

[@gailhowes9398]

Such a beautiful man,

[@muo1kor]

The camera work is abysmal. The presentation is not shown at important sections. Please check the Oriental Institute's videos on how to show the presentation and the presentor together!

[@sudhirchopde3334]

Poor camera work ,why are we not shown the slides ( he is talking about) rather than the speaker ALL THE TIME

[@murkdurk8961]

Verry confusing that he uses BC and AD in the same slide😆

[@justing1474]

This guy is simply fab, what a dude in sheep’s clothing 🐑

[@Nemo7The7Pirate7]

gasp...jumanji!

[@TesterAnimal1]

Very interesting. He's a fascinating guy. But without the slides to refer to the video is not very useful. The slides should be edited into the video.

[@gardengeisha]

I whnat to invite this man to my next game night!

[@beverly3397]

It very disappointing that so many people are making so much noise.

[@marcteenhc9793]

Show the slides!!!!!! Damn...

[@philhume7932]

very interesting , unfortunately ., missed a lot of slides ! I suggest a cameramen who can actually follow your instructions . very frustrating , such a shame . nevertheless , love your energy and enthusiasm , and , of course , your superior knowledge which is mind boggling for a simpleton as myself :)

[@kathrynkildow3743]

Sometimes it seems like the people in charge of the slides, microphones and camera never looked at the equipment before the lecture started. This is very rude to the lecturer.

[@patrickday4206]

No tell us what would happen if he took a photo! Lol

[@kenjackben]

villainous plastic I like that

[@stylis666]

I'm somewhat of a sleuth myself. I suspect that this man was born before the microphone was introduced to talks like this :p It's just a hunch :p

[@rotkatzeredcat4284]

It would have been nice to see all the slides. Terrible camera angle.

[@ansfridaeyowulfsdottir8095]

Why does he start off far too loud, and then goes far too quiet? And why did the cameraman never show us the bloody sildes? {:-:-:}

[@IdeaBoxful]

Why is with us Indians that we could generate sophisticated thought long back, but today is so dumbed down and can't get anything run smoothly anymore. Perhaps time is a "pass out" for us

[@Salo1378]

You could apply the same on the near east.

[@bethbartlett5692]

The cameraperson gets a C

[@DieterHageman]

A C4 resignation orde