Discussing roots of Indian Modernity - Abhijit Iyer-Mitra and Arvind Kumar

Where Abhijit and Arvind discuss if the modern values are simply a foreign imposition or have deeper roots in India?
For more content: patreon.com/AbhinavPrakash?ut...

[@Anish61097]

Just Loving the contents Abhinav ji is creating here.

[@urbanchatterati]

thnx

[@amey_gad]

@@urbanchatterati ohhh shortforms 😎😂 South Delhi ka bann matt

[@amey_gad]

@जरावास्य卐आर्य卐 Haanji

[@msgstoas]

@@urbanchatterati भैया, god (ब्रम्ह) के फॉर्म का न होना is an upanishadic / vedic fact अरविंद जी से असहमत हूँ इस बात में| God (ब्रम्ह) का formless होना is a fact as old as Vedas atleast; but it was a very normal assumption in our philosophy so we were not obsessed with it unlike other philosophies such as that of Judaism and islam ... समस्या है हमारे विचारकों का "देव"/ "देवता", "भगवान", "ईश्वर" तथा "ब्रम्ह" शब्दों के अंतर का ना समझना, जिनका संस्कृत साहित्य में अलग अलग अर्थों में प्रयोग है। नवीन translaters ने सब शब्दों को गॉड/ deity translate कीया।

[@bear7243]

ARVIND KUMAR SIR is also very learned and gentle person i wish these three learned and smart people should be invited to News channels for debates

[@unconditionalnationalist6202]

*Arvind Ji has so much of knowledge and things to share, please bring him more often.* 👍

[@aakhyakatyayan8259]

Thanks to Kushal he convinced you to start this podcast. Some of the stuff is really good here.

[@Adv.Subham]

Wonderful conversation (although I struggle to understand Hindi with clarity)!!! Abhijit's closing comment was as true as it could be. Thanks Abhinav for creating such forum.

[@AvinashKumar-vy1fb]

It will become most influential channel. Thanks abhinav sir for bringing such educative content. Keep doing.

[@ankurnaithani9139]

I noticed one thing arvind's entire discussion revolved around caste, sant Kabir and sant Ravidas. Talking about an imagined city which they both were not able to create and will never be created in a foreseeable future. Abhijit as always gave a very open and realistic view.

[@Terahydron]

As usual savarns would feel threatened with even at the mention of caste.

[@sachithrao6353]

@@Terahydron he just expressed a view don't need to bash him like that

[@praveenkaurwar3188]

I keep coming back to abhinav's videos. It was a treat to listen to him as an academic.

[@the24thintrovert]

This is high quality stuff

[@shivanshtyagi3254]

Absolutely amazing. I feel your channel and few others have filled up the void of Indian history and perspective that was left due to out trashy education system.

[@pandeyankitg]

Thank-you so much three of you, specially Abhinav Prakash ji for hosting show on such unnoticed topics.

[@geekybastard1433]

Beautiful discussion with references from history. Love it!

[@tjena5772]

Enjoyed the discussion immense,y. The guest duo created a wonderful ambience with Abhijit laying down the external paradigm and Arvind the internal. It is so far nay the scratching of the surface and I hope you’ll continue the debate to explore the wide definitions of modernity and its presence or absence in India through out the relevant times we are concerned with. While congratulating the three of you I’m eagerly looking forward to more on this theme.

[@adisura9904]

In most people's mind, modernization is equal to westernization

[@aryanewsentertainment5703]

It is interesting that whenever people talk of mediaeval period, they often over look Tulsidas who was the most influential in that period and still impacts India.

[@govindaaggarwal103]

Very informative and interesting!

[@satishh26]

Really very useful and in-depth discussion on modernity ....

[@shivamd9702]

बहुत अच्छा हिन्दी में चर्चा के लिए आगे भी हिन्दी में होना चाहिए

[@mr.a9267]

Abhinav ji, tq very much for ur contents...with great insights, deep knowledge...as always brilliant session with this wonderful trio 🙏👍

[@lalluchettan]

Good show, Abhinav.

[@Astoma-st1ig]

Thank you Abhinav ji for hosting panelists that respectfully listen to others & patiently wait for their turn. Abhijit is a pleasure to listen to, especially in English. His heartfel5 attempt to speak in Hindi is praise worthy. On many platforms, panelists when not spoken to show utter disregard to other speakers by indulging in activities not fit for screen. So, thank you again for hosting professional people. No dogs barking in the background next time though.

[@shreyashagrawal9650]

Great channel ,great institute for knowledge gaining 👏👍👌🙌

[@siddhantasinghsomvansheey]

Although unstructured and aimless, these kind of conversations are need of the hour.

[@urbanchatterati]

That was the point! Free flowing discussion :)

[@siddhantasinghsomvansheey]

@@urbanchatterati Yes, especially when topic is kind of untouched like this one. 🙏

[@Studio-gs7ye]

Communism is also outsider philosophy. Lenin and Marx are also outsiders.

[@RAIRADIO]

Every political ideology has a time and a place. To superimpose one on another, be it fascism or communism, it doesnt really fit.

[@HIMANSHUSHARMA-qi4ek]

AIM in arvind ji show disciplined person and AIM in sham sharma show behave like back benchers kids

[@shubhammishr]

Indian modernity started with the Upnishads, got cultivated in the Bhakti Movement and took its present form with the advent of Western Education and concept of Liberty Equality and Fraternity.

[@prashantandu]

@Majin Goku are guruji kahan the ab tak aap🙏......jara apne gyan ka prakash failayen aur hume moksh ki raah par le jayen😁🤣👏👏

[@RAIRADIO]

@हराहर ईश्वर when a society is Not built on merit but previledge, its downfall is guranteed. Even now communism, evangelicals are making headway because of caste. No one wants to convert back to Hinduism despite its modern core values because of caste.

[@RAIRADIO]

@Majin Goku very simple. Technology and artistry of temples. And the total amount of sanskrit manuscripts which is 100 times more than greek and latin.

[@Terahydron]

Lmao

[@Terahydron]

@हराहर ईश्वर why did Brahma allow islam to exist in the first place?

[@moirangthemvishalsingh]

We need more people who criticize indian in very logical manner

[@arunjetli3770]

Abhijeet I am impressed by you. I did my PhD dissertation on the role of the critic in differentiation of narrative and truth.from the American university in 1981: “ the role of the critic and the logic of criticism in Hegel Bruno Bauer and the Frankfurt School “ Marx is the icon of modernity by introducing the necessity of the mode and relations of production as the base of culture

[@aditya-rt4zb]

I think you should read gangesa for further refining of your logical skills

[@RajPatel-im5np]

Abhinav ji please try to bring Dr. David Frawley, Aabhas Maldahiyar, Vivek Agnihotri, Francois Gautier and many such personalities to your show if you can 🙏🏼

[@herambpatkar6749]

Love this!!!!!! Sometimes I think Engineering for me was a mistake!

[@apoorvsharma1250]

Same bhai.

[@TheAshutosh58]

Mechanical engineer here bro. Its shit here.

[@jeetthakkar2297]

@@TheAshutosh58 i can feel your pain :)

[@herambpatkar6749]

@@TheAshutosh58 I am also for Mech ;)

[@TheAshutosh58]

@@jeetthakkar2297 aaj bhi dhoondh rha hu usse jisne bola Mech mei scope hai. Uski endoscopy karni hai

[@soorajnair150]

To all the people who love this content try PG Radio as well.

[@SDE844]

Sir description me speaker ke social media accounts link de diya kariye taking jud sake

[@sujoybha]

I felt like Arvind ji repeated the same statement 6 times without adding info, clarification or depth to it - felt like I was back in college. What am I missing here?

[@bear7243]

DEAR ABHIJEET SIR PLEASE MAKE VIDEO ON Abhijeet Iyer mitra Book recommendations by each month for youth should read to guide us

[@OnkarShrma]

Well #AIM should write Indian history with his sharp analysis skills. Right wing really need good and objective history writer.

[@swapnilrb7370]

If he writes a book, how much will be impact on society? Will people read? Esp. a society like ours who just wants to hear goody-goody things about themselves? (Plz no fcuks like कर्मण्येवाधिकारस्ते... Blah blah. Today's world is objective and pragmatic. Cost-benefit analysis is done before kickstarting of a project)

[@OnkarShrma]

@@swapnilrb7370 If every writer had thought like this, then no one ever had written books. And,#Amish even didn't dare to write a letter. People read books if they are well written with facts. You just need to do your work effectively without much thinking about results.

[@sanj071]

When is the follow up episode coming?

[@sentinel9293]

Please invite Arvind more often 🙏

[@paharipant2]

By 13th century all universities in india were ruined. Aryabhata was a dalit according to dr c.k. raju. So no wonder we missed the modernity bus.

[@hkiajtaqks5253]

It is a bit disconcerting that all these discussions happen without the acknowledgement that the Hindu society was under a siege for all these centuries. You cannot make social progress under the shadow of swords.

[@bear7243]

La di la di da Abhijeet op

[@SUMITSINGH-ie1ql]

Sir KZbin is trying to hide your video I was refreshing my home page and I saw your video with j sai Deepak sir didn't know which as my home page got automatically refreshed within seconds . I refreshed it many time so I can again see that video but every time the video showed it automatically got refreshed and even faster than before and now it's not recommending your video

[@suhasch12]

Abhijit is not aware of Kalyan Mandapa in Karnataka in the 12th Century by Great Lord Basav

[@unconditionalnationalist6202]

*Delicious conversation, Abhinav ji.* 🙏🚩 Suggesting to bring some psychologist to expose what NCERT, Media, and Entertainment is doing to the soft headed Hindus.

[@sanatmohanta7243]

AIM should write a book on Indian history and world history.....

[@unibassmusic]

Good point on income generation in place of bhikshu concept.

[@bhaveshdk]

Om

[@msgstoas]

अरविंद जी का "भक्ति" शब्द की व्याख्या अनुचित है; his meaning a post 2014 left created imposed meaning of beautiful word भक्ति

[@Godfearing-Atheist]

Shouldn't Nasidya sukta be more appropriately considered as Agnostic rather atheistic , as it is neither accepting or denying divine power .

[@bibekpaldesign8846]

can u plz conduct a debate regarding "Ramayan real or not?"

[@ankitverma545]

Hmm

[@atharvasharma5814]

👍

[@msgstoas]

भैया, god (ब्रम्ह) के फॉर्म का न होना is an upanishadic / vedic fact अरविंद जी से असहमत हूँ इस बात में| God (ब्रम्ह) का formless होना is a fact as old as Vedas atleast; but it was a very normal assumption in our philosophy so we were not obsessed with it unlike other philosophies such as that of Judaism and islam ... समस्या है हमारे विचारकों का "देव"/ "देवता", "भगवान", "ईश्वर" तथा "ब्रम्ह" शब्दों के अंतर का ना समझना, जिनका संस्कृत साहित्य में अलग अलग अर्थों में प्रयोग है।

[@suen3634]

Subtitles please🙏

[@Astoma-st1ig]

Modernity, as defined by the West, brings with it its own challenges. It certainly isn’t a flawless system. That, too, must be given ample weightage.

[@hkiajtaqks5253]

Isn't the idea of dharma essentially a form of dignity of labour? Doing your job or work in the form of worship and duty. To dissociate work from reward (karma yoga).

[@praketasaxena]

I disagree with last comments where Abhijeet Leaves with very little to show for India future 1) if you actually have institutes that are limited and merit based < industrialization will follow Apathy comes from fear and dysfunctional institutes

[@shivamd9702]

लोकतंत्र जरूरी है भारत में लेकिन एक पार्टी शासन होना चाहिए भारत में कई पार्टी होने से एक दूसरे की सिर्फ टांग खिंचाई करते है बस

[@vipkoli95]

LMAO! I got an advert of donations for building a masjid in Norway featuring Zakir Naik in this video.

[@urbanchatterati]

Lol!

[@hritikgahlot19]

Me too

[@unconditionalnationalist6202]

*Abhinav ji, what's your opinion on (condensed) formula below?* Vedas>Upnishads>Buddhism &Jainism>Zoroastrianism>Judaism>Neo-Platonism>Christianity>Islam

[@unconditionalnationalist6202]

@Uddipan Chaudhury agree..😁

[@unconditionalnationalist6202]

@Majin Goku wrong.. knowledge is never useless.

[@ramnirmohi9027]

@Majin Goku , You just proved that you know nothing about Vedas. Even Max Muller and Griffiths didn’t know completely who mistranslated Vedas for their agenda.

[@unconditionalnationalist6202]

@Majin Goku it has multiple characteristics to it.. history is just one of it.

[@unconditionalnationalist6202]

@Majin Goku well, there is central authority of sorts but none care to read. Eg :- if everybody reads Valmiki Ramayan, people will obviously develop sense of commonality, so "central authority" which dictate people to act in certain way, becomes redundant. However, Arthashastr, Yajnawalka Smriti and many others can be considered as "central authority."

[@skalrask8097]

The panelists particularly A IYER do happen to take the comments section too seriously! wonder what happened to the"not taking oneself too seriously" self rule that younger fellow brother/Indian AIM stuck by!

[@Tushar13121972]

Trio or three musketeers AAA

[@scoobyanddooby9054]

Bhai abhijeet hindi mai baat kr sakta hai toh why english

[@adeshfafriya3884]

@@scoobyanddooby9054 Kyuki uski marzi bhai, usne Hindi seekhi, tum Tamil kyu nhi sikh lete?

[@swapnilrb7370]

@हराहर ईश्वर KZbin kya keval dilli me chalta hai, jo Hindi me bolenge? Tamilnadu me baitha aadmi ye KZbin program dekhega, to usko kya ghanta samzega hindi? Angrez ke Tatte ko tumse jyada akal hai

[@arunjetli3770]

The death knell of Islamic reason was its dependence on Aristotelian epistemology .

[@vijay-1]

Fascism and totalitarianism is as much modern as democracy. Values of modernity should be differentiated from realities of modern institutions

[@RL-mv9hj]

I think Hindu temples will probably(or should be made to) play a central role in Indian modernity

[@swapnilrb7370]

Temple should be the place of debate, not worship.

[@smoky3302]

@@swapnilrb7370 it was in ancient time as well as place of learning.

[@RL-mv9hj]

@@smoky3302 In fact in Goa temples were solely responsible for financing resistance against the Portuguese. Maybe we can come up with a theistic sort of modernity rather than the purely analytical one of the west.

[@jojobabok9373]

@@RL-mv9hj Modernity is about developing more & more sophisticated tools for analysis & reducing (if not removing) dependence on blind faith. It's better to emphasize the history of intellectual icons like Susrutha, Phanini, Brahmagupta, etc., the (rules-based) tradition of debate, commentaries on previous works, ancient Indian technologies (ship building, steel), etc., than the adherence to blind faith part. Modernity is fundamentally about re-inventing your culture (wherever it happens - East or West). We need to study Japan, Israel & the PRC in particular (perhaps even Soviet Union, pre-WW2) to get an idea of how the peoples who were late to the industrial revolution (to varying degrees) have achieved (or are trying to achieve) modernity.

[@RL-mv9hj]

@@jojobabok9373 Sanathan is anything but blind faith. It is a system about reasoning. Therefore all of the above were influenced by the Vedas in some way.

[@anandgupta1989]

Kushanas were from the Chinese steppes they were not Turkic

[@shaan4308]

I believe shakas and kushanas are indo iranian and not turkic

[@qh5716]

Not sure about Sakas...but Kushanas were surely Turko-Mongol...the Huns, Mongols, Turks are all related.

[@shaan4308]

@@qh5716 kushanas ie yuezhi are related to tocharians right? So how can they be turkic?

[@qh5716]

The Turks, Mongols, Hun Chinese etc. are all related.

[@qh5716]

@जरावास्य卐आर्य卐 please read Chinese history before making random comments. Turks, Mongol, Huns are closely related. Religion and ethnicity are different things. Even some Turk tribes were Hindus. For example, Afghanistan was ruled by Hindu Shahis, who were Hindu Turks prior to the Muslim invasion.

[@qh5716]

@जरावास्य卐आर्य卐 You haven't read history..but ready to give gyan on history. LOL....Typical Hindu Fascist!

[@smoky3302]

I always think what would have happened if Buddhism came out as dominant philosophy than hinduism. Will India had more equality and liberty and modernity may took place earlier in India.

[@natalkumar6132]

It was and it was communist philosophy . Man you need to read a lot more. Islam freed us from Buddhists and Zoroastrians only for Islam itself to be weakened by Christian colonists . Everybody comes as a helper but everyone is the enemy . We stopped producing good quality .

Not actually, because Buddhism never denied such classification of society and then most Buddhist were from so called upper cast (kashatria) dominant. Buddha was a teacher and he never brought societal changes but there is a stories related to buddha which tells us how he suggested one king to apply our ancient systems to make his empire prosperous

[@narenderchaudhary2926]

Buddhism can prosper under someone's shade but it will only be sand castle on its own It thrives on ahimsa and promotes it But absolute rejection towards hinsa But himsa and ahimsa go hand in hand Result buddhism has no strength to protect itself from himsa

[@jojobabok9373]

The caste system has evolved into its current form over many centuries, if not millennia. It initially began as a system for division of labor to run an ancient society. (And in doing so, those people avoided becoming a slave owning one - which many parts of the world were, at that time). The Buddhists didn't have to dabble with these material realities because the "Hindus" had already done the _dirty work_ of establishing a stable, organized society (despite its flaws). Also, the Buddha had a rule early on, that only members of the "warrior caste" (the Kshatriyas) could join his Sangha. So giving Buddhism a clean chit on societal issues, while bashing the "Hindu caste system" seems unfair. After all, even the other societies that embraced Buddhism had still carried through an inter-generational caste structure (eg: Japan). Buddhism seems to benefit from it's clever aloofness from giving a socio-economic commentary - the reason why it gets absolved of the flaws of the societies it has been a part of.

[@jojobabok9373]

@जरावास्य卐आर्य卐 If you define caste system as an inter-generationally stratified socio-economic hierarchy, then Japan's military feudalism does qualify for it. In fact, many big-ticket names in contemporary Japan tend to come from a few influential families of their feudal past. If India had successfully seized the industrial initiative like they did, Indian society might have looked similar to Japanese today (in terms of socio-economic spread).

[@Sunny12-23]

Would have been more interesting if Arvind did not keep repeating the same thing endlessly in answer to every question. His students must be bored out of their minds. Relief provided by AIM.

[@theunahime7446]

Arvind is borrowing too much from muslim doctored history. He is discussing caste with Marxist inclination in much more vociferously. He needs to rise above caste philosophy to weaken it. Only discussing properties of situation will not change the outcome. He needs to clarify his thinking beyond anecdote. On the podcast needs to speak beyond begaumpura and Kabir doctrines.

[@swapnilrb7370]

@हराहर ईश्वर Lemme guess, Is that jealousy towards Ravidas and Kabir because they were lower castes and Tulsidas was Brahman ?

[@swapnilrb7370]

@हराहर ईश्वर Any evidence or number you have that Tulsidas had more followers than Ravidas n Kabir? Give me citation

[@Terahydron]

@हराहर ईश्वर even today Brahmans downplay caste when they want to spread hindusim. Yes KZbin comment section and anonymous profile helps being a sher. I would love you Brahmans openly saying this and see how many people remain Hindus lmao

[@sachithrao6353]

Arvind is not giving a Marxist movement.

[@kartiksharma7362]

Abhinav prakash ji propogate subtle Brahmins hatred. In right wing mask , you can't freely express hate against Brahmins. Serious trust issues about Abhinav prakash. Cautiously and attentively watch video viewers.

[@arunjetli3770]

Young man a political scientist needs to be a historian as political science is based on human behavior based on history. Nothing happens in a vacuum as the vacuum is quickly filled . The ontological discussion by this young man is still Aristotelian , if he wants to stick to the west , he should study PArmenides . I have a problem with this fellow. Punarjanm mayor may not mean reincarnation , but it is a rational point that all that is is because of the interaction of the subject and the object an,d the matrix created. It follows from this that the subject must persist in all phenomenon . Or else we have answer Kantian antinomians through a mysterious noumena. And yes Schroedinger proved the dependence of the object on the subject. This is the problem with political scientists, he makes a claim of modernity based on the western paradigm that must assign liberty fraternity and brotherhood to the French Revolution terror with Robespierre as the pope . Please understand that there is a difference between the two paradigms

[@Terahydron]

Defects in Western society can't be used as excuse for freeloading Brahmans. That was the crux of the debate. If so called Indian society was so backward that it didn't have any written history who's fault is that? Plus rationality and critical Thinking outgun history anyday. Double standard check is a critical and simple tool to validate anyone's claim.

[@chetan0192]

This guy arvid kumar knows nothing

[@chetan0192]

@जरावास्य卐आर्य卐 and ya that's my opinion, that he knows nothing

[@apoorvkatoch7621]

o my god how ill informed a discussion can be ?

[@Deep_Singh3337]

arvind kumar jo bhi hai ye isko ghanta kuchh nhi pta kya mr. abhinav kaise logo ko bula lete hain aap modernity ka simple definition mai batata hu kill the tradition and and call it modernity that's it agar abhijit nhi hote to ye ullu sab jhooth bolta

[@Terahydron]

Tu Brahmano ka chamcha hey na ,rajpoop?

[@Deep_Singh3337]

@@Terahydron tu hanafiyo ki kyo chat rha hai meri chat jyada dunga

[@nakukuroniyokana6013]

Wastage of time baseless Pathetic talks my only hero in this conversation was Abhinav Prakash Yup that's correct Pharos n others did all research while Islam was kind of doom for scientific development it's similar to our Tajmahal.

[@SUMITSINGH-ie1ql]

Sir KZbin is trying to hide your video I was refreshing my home page and I saw your video with j sai Deepak sir didn't know which as my home page got automatically refreshed within seconds . I refreshed it many time so I can again see that video but every time the video showed it automatically got refreshed and even faster than before and now it's not recommending your video

[@kunalseth6437]

👍

[@SUMITSINGH-ie1ql]

Sir KZbin is trying to hide your video I was refreshing my home page and I saw your video with j sai Deepak sir didn't know which as my home page got automatically refreshed within seconds . I refreshed it many time so I can again see that video but every time the video showed it automatically got refreshed and even faster than before and now it's not recommending your video

[@SUMITSINGH-ie1ql]

Sir KZbin is trying to hide your video I was refreshing my home page and I saw your video with j sai Deepak sir didn't know which as my home page got automatically refreshed within seconds . I refreshed it many time so I can again see that video but every time the video showed it automatically got refreshed and even faster than before and now it's not recommending your video

[@SUMITSINGH-ie1ql]

Sir KZbin is trying to hide your video I was refreshing my home page and I saw your video with j sai Deepak sir didn't know which as my home page got automatically refreshed within seconds . I refreshed it many time so I can again see that video but every time the video showed it automatically got refreshed and even faster than before and now it's not recommending your video