Discussing the impact of LIV Golf on the PGA Tour | First Take

[@SeanBenson23]

Love how Michael Collins talks about the cost and challenges of Q School. Q School used to take you straight to the PGA Tour. Now you go through 4 rounds of qualifying for $6500 in JUST TOURNAMENT FEES to go to a Tour with 1/16th of the purses. You play for a year to be a top 25 money earner and make it to the PGA the next year. What once was a very real pursuit is now a pipe dream. Unless you have tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars you don’t have a chance.

[@palmtreewhisperer]

Let's be honest Golf ⛳ was never a poor man's game 🤣

[@tylerfred7514]

I know a local golfer. Was on the PGA…he was never on top but a mid level guy. Finally fell off, he makes more money on smaller tours than he ever did on the PGA. The top guys don’t have a problem because they get paid. The mid level guys do have a problem.

[@Everafter282]

@Tony as far as I know, minimum SALARY on NBA/NFL is 1/2 mil. Where's that on the tour? Oh wait, it doesn't exist because no paycheck is a gartuntee. This just tells me you know nothing about how golf payouts are structured.

[@bmcc1430]

LIV is not trying to help those mid level guys. They don’t care about them.

[@Everafter282]

@@bmcc1430 They absolutely are. Competition in any economic market creates conditions that benefit workers. Already we've seen PGA Director raise purse amounts and add events in response to LIV golf being a threatening competitor. This helps out guys regardless of what league you're in. Stop acting like it doesn't

[@masterj479]

EVERYONE GETS PAID ON THE LIV TOUR!!

[@bmcc1430]

@@Everafter282 LIV’s goal is to get the top name guys on their tour. It is not to help out guys they would never recruit especially with only 48 spots. If the PGA is making changes, that’s not LIV’s goal. It’s a result and consequence of competition. As a competitor, why would LIV want to help the PGA tour and the mid level guys on it? If they did, they’d be partners.

[@truuee9016]

I think it's more accurate to say kids dream of playing a sport they love on the world stage, not necessarily for one organization. Monopolies are never good for business, they get arrogant and disregard their employees or in this case athletes. If there is an organization that treats the players better, then they should definitely take advantage of it and force the PGA tour to do more.

[@trainerrob1622]

Not really. I was fortunate enough to be in position to reach that level as an athlete. I played basketball and ended up having a 11 year career in Europe. Made a lot of money, won a lot of awards but the highlight of my career was getting 2 calls to go to NBA training camps. I grew up watching NBA Super Stars on VHS over and Over. Super Slams of the NBA. Listening to Marv Albert call games on Saturdays on NBC. When I put on my camp jersy and shorts. They had the NBA logo on them. I was in heaven. If you`ve ever seen a Euroleague playoff game. The fans and the atmosphere is right up there with the NBA... But its not the NBA. Jerry West is not the logo. Dr. J didn`t float along the baseline and spin it off the glass. Jordan didn`t switch hands. Havlicek didn`t steal the ball. Magic didn`t hit the baby sky hook. No amount of money or fans was going to make up for that logo missing from the jersey.

[@truuee9016]

@@trainerrob1622 Good point. I don't think the Euro league pays nearly as much as the NBA though, and the NBA is one of the fairer leagues to the players. I get where you're coming from but since the NBA is a fair organization it has nothing to worry about. I was talking about organizations that are less considerate, when there is competition, I believe players should take advantage.

[@trainerrob1622]

@@truuee9016 American players playing on Euroleague qualifying teams are making 6 figures per month. Add that in with the fact that team covers living expenses, home and road per diem and the fact that you are going to pull in far more endorsement and appearance income then you would being the 9th to 12th man on an NBA roster and your earnings are comparable to a fringe rotation guy in the league. That actually makes it a comparable comparison because there`s a ton of guys on minimum deals who could get bigger deals going overseas. Their domestic stars are the same. When Luka was drafted he was already a multi millionaire with a Porsche collection... In golf now there`s an alternative that pays actual money. A lot of player won`t move to that tour no matter how bad the PGA treats them because they have not been working and dreaming their whole lives about the LIV.

[@woody5581]

Liv Golf sucks

[@truuee9016]

@@trainerrob1622 only problem with LIV is who funds it. I wasn't aware of the Saudi regime connection. Apart from that, any competition is good. More options for players.

[@ugoeze7360]

I need Michael Collins to get more guest appearances, his own show, podcast, comedy special, golf tour. All at the same time.

[@darickbonebrake6774]

Yes

[@SLSMe]

Definitely NEED more Mike

[@davidhumphries3413]

hes the most famous man from ireland

[@stevenjenkins3882]

Bingo.

[@oloxyea]

You beat me to your comment.

[@rafhurffer7884]

With the size and power that ESPN has, was the best person they could find for this topic really a retired backup quarterback?

[@leeroyuckface6893]

Yes....not a lot of golf guys on ESPN

[@johnserrano8683]

Clown show!

[@pchapman31]

My thoughts exactly, why we listening to a trash QB about golf.

[@Diogenes-ty9yy]

Maybe, the question to ask Dan Orlovsky would be, "Dan, when you were a minimum salary backup, your contract ending and free agency or unemployment looming, would you have taken a 5 year offer of $1 million per year to play in the CFL if was offered to you?" Would he have thought of "history" and "legacy" in the NFL or would he take the money and run?

[@bebo7002]

Popular figures wont probably want to comment on the subject

[@goosepelican2512]

Stephen A Smith hitting the nail on the head.

[@joebaer1358]

I agree sometimes he has very good points.

[@giii7599]

"Forty years ago, it was considered by some a risky move for the guys who play professional golf to break away from the group created for golf professionals." This was about the PGA Tour splitting from The PGA of America in 1969. "The golf breakup occurred largely because of the influx of money that television had started to pump into the game. The top players (Jack Nicklaus and Arnold Palmer among them) wanted to use the additional TV money to pump up the purses." "The PGA of America wanted to put the money in the general fund. That's when the compromise was reached, with the golf professionals and the professional golfers going their separate ways." Sounds a bit like today... The PGA tour categorized itself as a non profit so it could avoid hundreds of millions in tax revenue. That decision is now haunting them since it also means they can't hand out guaranteed money contracts like other professional sports.The LIV tour is doing exactly that so it's not surprising top level golfers want guaranteed money. If someone loses their PGA tour card they're gone with very little support. I don't see how you can treat people as independent contractors and then complain when they go elsewhere.

[@Obiamajoyisrmd]

How many times is this comment going to be copy-pasted onto random videos?

[@giii7599]

@@Obiamajoyisrmd Probably until people that keep defending the PGA Tour understand.

[@Obiamajoyisrmd]

@@giii7599 well enjoy. I doubt a majority of human beings care.

[@giii7599]

@@Obiamajoyisrmd Obviously you do or you wouldn't have made the comment.

[@Obiamajoyisrmd]

@@giii7599 what kind of shortsighted haphazard logic is that? Did you actually think before you typed that?

[@garagegeekguy]

Stephen A nailed it, the hypocrisy of the PGA is ridiculous

[@georgetolofari5246]

The nil thing is also ridiculous.

[@weareallone4542]

All this talk is getting me into Golf!!🗣️🗣️🗣️

[@davidhumphries3413]

ull thank me later. dont bother

[@MayeloSand]

@@davidhumphries3413 don’t give advice buddy

[@IsmokeHiphopLive]

facts

[@blackout9587]

@@MayeloSand probably the best advice anyone could get. If you’re not into golf now, don’t get into it. It’s a waste of time and money. You’re not going to be good. There’s no chance you get good enough to not be stressed. Just give up now there’s actually no hope

[@trentonreeves6449]

Uncle Phil vibes every time I see Michael Collins 😁. I think others could possibly agree

[@slimpickens01]

Geoffrey bring me a sandwich!

[@joshuaheller33]

Playing golf for money is the dream, not playing golf for the PGA. The difference is the funding. LIV is going to win. Make no mistake about it. Im rooting for them too.

[@seannetworkblogsandgames7504]

As a former kid, I can say I never dreamed of playing for a league. I dreamed of playing for a team in that league, playing for the league's title (Super Bowl, NBA Finals, Stanley Cup, etc). But the league didn't matter. Likewise, golfers likely dream of a green jacket or an open title, and those tournaments have been associated with the PGA. But no one cares about the org itself

[@cebollitas3438]

In terms of the golf mayors the PGA owns only one I think, most likely players can still participate in the Masters, Open, US open. But I do agree with you.

[@Only2GendersCommonSense]

"As a former kid..." Lol 😂😂😂

[@ShadderSheeK]

I’ve been watching liv a little because it’s on KZbin with no commercials

[@davidcawley1403]

LIV golf is smart it’s aiming its coverage at the younger generation. Every single person has a smartphone or tv with youtube app. It doesn’t matter about tv rights anymore revenue can be made via other streaming services.

[@MK-kf3vn]

Finally someone who actually gets it. Who the heck watches tv anymore. Its all about streaming now. Tv will be a thing of the past. LIV. Doesn’t need tv rights.

[@wassupfuqqly7195]

Best stephen take ive ever heard

[@ericzellershow]

Literally the one time he has made sense.

[@thomashall6937]

Stephen A. You are spot on

[@kimgallagher6254]

The PGA Tour caused this to happen by treating the players they way they have for years. The biggest mouth is Rory who happens to be one of the richest. Mickelson, Johnson, De Chambeau and Reed left for a reason. Greg Norman will look after the players. This story is about hypocrisy, childishness, Xenophobia against Saudi's and holding on to a monopoly. I can understand why an organisation wants to hang onto what they have enjoyed for years, competition breeds dirty tactics. Mark my words, Greg Norman is not stupid, he is a successful businessman and has enough wealth behind him to make this work. One more thing, If Augusta, USGA or R&A want to ban LIV players from major championship then the real fun starts. Norman would have the legal army ready to deploy at any time. Norman said he will start a world golf tour one day and by jesus he has done it.

[@ericzellershow]

Big Boy Pants Golf, KZbins hottest golf channel, agrees and has been pumping out videos showing the hypocrisy!

[@Diogenes-ty9yy]

There will be many high powered lawyers making a LOT of money when the lawsuits begin to fly.

[@ericzellershow]

@@Diogenes-ty9yy I’m sure Monahan has them working overtime already. Interesting point that another guy brought up on another video is how there seems to be collusion between pga tour and DP tour.

[@johnb2905]

If the R&A and PGA tour don’t give them world golf ranking points they ain’t gonna play the majors. You can’t win that battle in court

[@anthonyfuqua6988]

They have been suspended and you're over-selling this league. It's 90 pecent golfers on the downside of their careers.

[@bark-aholic6534]

Dan Orlovsky ~ simple thoughts from a simple mind ~

[@matthewjohnson1643]

It’s easy for Rory He’s is a top guy!!!!!!!!

[@Mikey_2_Times]

A backup nfl player and a basketball commentator talking about golf…espn is really cutting down labor costs…

[@Everafter282]

Yes, and both of them have thorough knowledge of what Free Agency and NIL management SHOULD look like. They have said more about what the actual issue is in 7 minutes than anyone over on the Golf Network has in the past 7 months. The Golf Network is owned by NBC and they are partnered with the PGA tour; so go figure that they wouldn't talk about the free agency problem and NIL ownership issues on the Tour because that would be hurting there business investment. Use your brain man. I know it's hard.

[@randybailin4902]

Dan's out of his lane in this discussion. Phil Mickelson went into hibernation for a while and came back looking like the Unabomber.

[@mikek2337]

The whole world revolves around money. Why do you think there's a saying - Show me the money- Money talks BS walks. Money will always rule. In golf they measure your legacy by Majors. Liv golfers still can play 3 out of the 4 majors. PGA tour has a serious rival and they're going to lose a lot more players every mlonth.

[@matthewjohnson1643]

The US OPEN raised the prize by 5 million that has to be a result of that.

[@rayphillips3479]

Stephen A speaking facts.

[@per_growth]

It would really be really interesting to take a poll on ALL the members of the PGA tour to see how they see LIV. It's true - why are only the Rorys and Rahms and Morikawas (set for life millionaire members of the tour) being asked for their opinion? I've yet to see the last 10% of the PGA tour being asked about theirs? We are all guilty (me included) of having judged this outright - but we have no real experience of how it is to be on the PGA tour and trying to make a living from it. It's great to see the perspective of the guys at the top - but its only fair to get the opinions of those at bottom as well.

[@Matt-cr4vv]

Because the mainstream doesn’t care what somebody they’ve never heard of says if we’re being honest.

[@jwp2166]

You do realize, don't you, that the golf millionaires earned their way there. Nothing was handed to them immediately on a silver platter. I imagine that some of the last 10% would say they're happy to work hard and see if they can rise to the ranks of the best, while some of the last 10% -- like a lot of folks these days -- would expect to be paid lavishly simply for participating. Hey -- they have a name for that: The LIV Tour. Greg Norman's Participation Retirement Joke Tour.

[@per_growth]

@@jwp2166 simply pointing out that it would be interesting to hear the perspective of players who are not as successful financially on the PGA tour. Never said anything was handed to those guys. they are great players and they deserve their success no doubt. But that kind of financial success was mostly possible on the PGA tour (I've yet to hear of a golfer earning hundreds of millions of dollars coming from the Korn Ferry or Asian Tour - endorsements included). At present, for a golfer to really make it big (and there are only a handful of those) - you have to make it big on the PGA tour (which is the global stage of pro golf). But now, another tour/option is here - with more money - would those less successful PGA players welcome this other tour? Or would they rather grind it out on the PGA, year after year, and play for legacy? I wouldn't diss the LIV tour if it will give those other golfers a chance at a better quality of life for therm and their families. Who wouldn't want that? This could very well be a better alternative to those lower ranked golfers (who are also highly talented for sure) , but have a hard time breaking through on the PGA.

[@jwp2166]

@@per_growth I agree. The LIV Tour will become the place for good players to make really good money and not be taken seriously in the history of golf while the PGA Tour will remain the place for the really good players to make good money and be taken seriously in the history of golf. The guys have a choice to make.

[@BS-xf9rr]

@@jwp2166 the LIV tour is going to evolve into something more serious as serious talent continue to sign on. It will go to 72 hole events for much much more cash....don't kid yourself. This is serious and real and evolving....QUICKLY.

[@terryweller1233]

It is all hypocricy by both PGA Tour and some of its players. OK for PGA Tour to do business with China but players who sign with LIV have no morals for taking Saudi money. Multi, multi millionair PGA stars saying it's tradition and heritage that should dictate allegience to the PGA Tour. Take away thei money and wonder what their perspective would be about LIV?

[@okolekahuna3862]

My question is, why NOW complain about a rival league, when you always had the European tour, the Australian tour, the Asian tour etc.. Aren't they considered rival golf leagues? And repeating what Michael Collins said, "When the LIV tour gets a TV contract, the PGA should worry".

[@randallpennington5976]

Stephen nailed it!

[@sayed3520]

This LIV Golf is genius

[@JC-se8mi]

Interesting to see the difference in attitude of African Americans vs Whites on this issue. PGA playing the Human Rights and 9/11 victims cards in an effort to maintain their control and monopoly over players rights is despicable.

[@MK-kf3vn]

Great point.

[@cantu916761]

Amen brother Stephen.

[@reallife0728]

MICHAEL COLLINS WAS TALKING THAT TALK TODAY!!!!!🔥🔥🔥 DAN ORLOVSKY SEEMS LIKE A GOOD GUY BUT HE ALSO COMES ACROSS AS A SOMEWHAT PRIVILEGED GUY FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM!!!! I DONT WANNA SAY RACIST BUT THERE HAVE BEEN TIMES IN WHICH DAN ORLOVSKY HAS EXHIBITED THAT TYPE OF ENERGY!!!! EXAMPLE: JUSTIN FIELDS QB SITUATION WHEN HE WAS DRAFTED INTO THE NFL!!!!! JUST MY THOUGHTS!!!!!

[@artofcarolinejean]

I do not agree with Dan at the beginning. I don't care about the TV contract or the aura, branding or reputation of the PGA Tour as long I want to see DJ, Bryson, Phil, Patrick, Brooks or Cameron play. First time in my life this year I didn't watch a sigle PGA tour event after the Players in March. LIV golf has something to do with it. I have no interest in regular tournaments in a diluted league and see Tony Finau dominate because he is a ghost in the leaderboard otherwise. I watched the majors because everybody was there. Do you seriously think Fedex will continue to give as much money for the playoffs in the future? No. Fedex Cup will no longer exist soon.

[@celestialnubian]

Michael, you cray. If the USFL would've had Saudi money backing it then things would have been very different. Saudi's blatant disregard for basic human rights should not be tolerated.

[@hoponpop3330]

I’m old enough to remember a bunch of guys with a lot of money started a football league that competed with the NFL It worked out okay. That got their own TV deal and eventually merge red Almost the same thing happened in basketball The ABA pioneered the three point shot and with players like Dr J was more fun to watch That merger pumped life in the product Hockey had this upstart league AHL that just happened to have the greatest player of all time Gretzky The new ideas from the innovated new leagues were all originally scorned but the eventually many were adopted I miss the Red White and Blue Ball Competition is good.

[@tedtyson2838]

Stephen A is 1000% right. These takes is what make him his money.

[@galatians22122]

0:13 TV Right? I watched the Last LIV Tour tournament on KZbin! TV?

[@Dreson45]

Dan is right on the money!

[@Beginningtopeak]

Stephen A said exactly what I've been saying! And Dan has no idea how much Saudi's actually have. They have trillions of dollars that they can print as fast as they can take oil out of the ground. They can operate at a loss forever.

[@waynehughes8824]

FYI.. The PGA Tour is registered with the IRS as a ‘business league’ and operates under nonprofit status. As has been reported over the years, that status allows the PGA to avoid hundreds of millions in taxes over the last few decades despite allegations that it spends well under 20 percent of its tour revenue on charity and that its executives are highly salaried, in the millions.

[@enorth15]

Wait until next week after several top players join LIV. They will get a TV deal very soon.

[@anthonydixon69]

Yep.. people don’t realize it takes a little bit of time to get to a certain point and goal

[@jas1049]

It is offensive that anyone would partake in the LIV tour given Saudi Arabia’s “bad actor” status on the world stage. What about 9/11? What about the murder of Jamal Kashoggi? What about Yemen?

[@Gagne87Fixxer]

LIV is a great golf circuit and I don’t see why PGA and corporations are dissing it. It’s all about entertainment and if they attract fans, the whining can go on but the only thing it does is it gives more visibility to LIV, so maybe all is going according to plan. ⛳️

[@TheSquid9124]

I love Michael Collins so true

[@mikakujapelto]

”I think of Tiger at Augusta” When do people realise that majors are independent events and not part or affiliated by the PGA tour!!! Masters is an invitational only held tournament by Augusta. Sounds familiar?

[@greglp970]

D. Orlovsky is comparing apples to oranges. The upstart USFL (80's version) signed some very good players right out of college (J. Kelly, H. Walker, S. Young, S. Mills, D. Flutie, etc.) but these are the PGA equivalent of amateur's turning pro. The USFL did NOT get existing NFL stars to switch leagues. The LIV Tour is getting some very big names (Master's Champion's and other Major Champion's) to switch. The LIV Tour isn't going anywhere! Why? The PGA made it impossible for them to quit... by banning LIV players from ever returning to the PGA! You think these great players are going to allow the LIV Tour to fail? Nope! They're going to do everything in their power to make sure the LIV Tour is a success! Will it be? We don't know yet, but I'm hope it is and more and more players defect to it. Screw the PGA Tour!

[@DoronBond]

Spot on take. PGA Tour in they feelins somethin serious

[@Diogenes-ty9yy]

The PGA Tour is acting like baseball back when pro baseball had the reserve clause. The Tour should be the servant for its members, yet Jay Monahan is acting like the Tour members are indentured servants working for him.

[@greglp970]

@@Diogenes-ty9yy Back in the day when there were only 6 NHL teams. The owner's had a players rights depending on where they were born? So, if you were born within a certain distance from Toronto; say in Brampton, Ontario, Conn Smythe owned YOU! You could ONLY play for the Maple Leafs and NO other team. Therefore, if Conn didn't like you, you were screwed!

[@klitz715]

Lots of Talent is going over LIV. Brooks is the latest. And I’m sure more will follow.

[@StuntmanBeatz313]

The fact that ppl were upset about golfers doing business with Saudi Arabia but pays taxes and supports the government that does the same exact thing should be incredibly alarming..

[@Ont785]

What govt does the “same thing”

[@StuntmanBeatz313]

@@Ont785 idk how you didn't infer that I was referring to the American government..

[@Matt-cr4vv]

The US govt who is Saudis second largest trade partner bro.

[@Matt-cr4vv]

The only reason I could see being mad about a player is that we don’t really have much of a choice of what the US does with Saudi whereas the golfers are making the conscious choice to do business. But I don’t blame them.

[@Ont785]

@@Matt-cr4vv You don’t blame them? So working with drug dealers is ok? Murdered? You have no conscience at all

[@murphyb1991]

Michael Collins is right on.

[@morrisphillips2526]

Tiger Woods remembers 911.

[@aladdin3241]

Dan got smacked down on this one

[@cebollitas3438]

Michael hit them with facts about fees! Dan was out of his element, actually everyone was except for Michael.

[@brianconboy8979]

SA 100% correct. So is Michael

[@kortis18]

Think the Liv tour will be up there in a few years. Money talks. Have a look at the IPL in cricket. Started off as a joke now it’s the premier domestic competition. Liv will find it’s place

[@bmcc1430]

I don’t understand Collins’ points. LIV only cares about the big name golfers. The dudes that got their big paychecks are the ones standing up b/c those are the guys the LIV tour is after. LIV ain’t going after (well mostly) guys barely keeping their PGA tour card or struggling on the Korn Ferry Tour. They use those guys just to fill the rest of the field. I’ve seen nothing that makes me think LIV wants to invest in any infrastructure to provide a pathway for lower level/young guys to play professional golf. The guys in similar positions to Rory and JT are the ones being targeted and leaving so it makes sense that these guys are the ones speaking about it. LIV is signing millionaires and making them more money than they already have. And it’s not like the LIV guys are saying “I’m leaving because the PGA doesn’t care about developing talent so I’m giving up my spot for someone to fill.” No, they want to be able to still play PGA events.

[@vasquezalfred]

Stephen a is correct in saying hey our own government does business with Saudi Arabia and our own country does business with China. Mickelson Sergio Garcia and a slew of others have jumped ship to go play and make some serious money for themselves for their families for their loved ones.

[@MarkSmithhhh]

Michael good points

[@dantediego]

I wanted to hear what Dan response was. Why did you guys cut it off?

[@dennischeong8719]

Mr Smith You are 101% correct Maybe you can call up PGA Jay & the PGA Boy Rory live and ask them what they are afraid of

[@TheIncomparableGolfer]

Liv Golf is turning out to be very interesting.. I better keep practicing 😉

[@jakesmith6233]

I'm torn on this! On One hand, it's nice to see the PGA finally get some competition, while their commissioner handling it very poorly. On the other hand, I can't shake the fact that Saudi Arabia funds it. It raises some red flags.

[@lancemanyon7645]

The European tour used to pay Tiger $3 million to play in their events then he would go over and win which pissed off the regulars on that tour for appearance fees. Greg Norman played all over the world for appearance fees which is why he would be a part of this. Same with guaranteed contracts and union strikes in sports are more for the mid level guys who make up 75% of teams looking for more stability, golf is no different the mid level guys looking for a chance to make Rory, Tiger, Phil money

[@madD8845]

I’m sure you’re praying that this administration can talk the Saudi’s into producing more oil so we can lower our gas prices. We do business with Tyrannical countries all the time.

[@lancemanyon7645]

@@madD8845 What choice does this country have? We can’t survive on America only. We need free trade due to our consumption. We are not innocent of world atrocities, meanwhile we drop in education, healthcare, average lifespan. This country has spent decades helping out other countries and their issues while ignoring our poor, homeless problems which I had hoped was the point of America first

[@JohnDoe-qu7gm]

@@lancemanyon7645 don’t try to compare Saudi money with the European tour paying Tiger to play. 11 out of the 15 terrorists on 9/11 had Saudi ties and Saudi finances. No one has a problem with golfers taking money to play elsewhere, but understand when you take Saudi money you can’t in good conscience call your self a patriot

[@lancemanyon7645]

@@JohnDoe-qu7gm I don’t think any of them called themselves Patriots especially nowadays. This was a money grab pure and simple and at the very least there is a current story brewing that the PGA tour is looking to have higher prize money, a few more No cut silly season cash grabs that if run properly could give the mid and lower range pros a chance at real life changing money without all the A listers their but we will see if that comes to pass. Unfortunately we have choice but to buy oil from Saudis and before from Russia so we have always had commerce with less desired countries but we haven’t been perfect angels throughout history either. Overthinking this- in the long run this could end up being like Norman’s failed World Golf Tour that was adopted on PGA tour and upped the money. Just wondering if it is sustainable without Tiger Woods and Phil winning. These guys are great but few if any have that “IT” factor to drive the needle (or be the needle in Tiger’s case) for ratings

[@austinclark007]

Has Dan been in the sun too long?

[@brianchristopher4666]

I personally would like to see the golf tours get an overhaul, and offer more interesting forms of golf to watch and bet on! High stakes cash game golf , best ball style. vs top pro's (playing straight up solo), would keep my interest! Golf today, without Tiger contending, is simply a boring sport, that none in the US hardly cares about, anyway

[@mariotater1310]

You know the problem with America is the so educated but dumb bias people we are what’s the problem with Saudi n taking money to play do people know that if it wasn’t for Saudi oil money America could have possibly be bankrupt long time ago Saudi oil protect the American dollar n help stabilized the banks n dollar people do your homework so why are people talking about some billshit human right this country killed more people than other in world 🙏🏿

[@ALD56]

Jay Monahan thinks the LIV tour is SO bad for golf, that he's setting up 8 no cut everybody gets paid tourneys for next season. You can't make this stuff up.

[@MrWilliams4k]

I appreciate Dan's POV but he is highly mistaken if he this the PIF doesn't have money to just overpay mid tier golfers with who don't really produce.

[@adamkingston2231]

I’ve heard the PIF has a near TRILLION dollar budget and their only other major investment is Newcastle United. I’d guess LIV could spend up to $100 billion in the next 3 years bringing over your players, easily

[@Matt-cr4vv]

People don’t seem to grasp LIV has a virtually unlimited pot of money and no expectation to ever make profit. If it’s a money battle they can’t lose because the PGA simply doesn’t have the resources to competitively bid. DJ, Phil and Bryson alone account for a third of what the PGA even pulls in annually.

[@dalerobinson535]

Hey Dan !! Rory got that 125 million dollars before he hit a golf ball off the tee. He should be the last person talking about morality. He got his money so he doesn't how to look at how the PGA is treating it's players.

[@R-L-I]

Dolla Dolla Phil y’all.

[@stanleyaltidor3452]

This is a real issue

[@BillyBiceps]

They have brought up this topic so many times and never get around to why they don't form a players union like most sports. Not saying it's the right move but why does it seem like it's not even an option?

[@aladdin3241]

They can't because they are not considered employees. That's why' PGA gets away with so much stuff.

[@BillyBiceps]

@@aladdin3241 I had no idea, that's super interesting. Fucked up for sure, but interesting

[@Matt-cr4vv]

What do they demand? They get a higher revenue share in purses as a percentage than union repped leagues like the NBA and NFL. The difference is the revenue those leagues have is much bigger than the PGA.

[@christianthao2291]

Tiger woods = golf . LIV and PGA without tiger = nobody cares

[@aladdin3241]

If nobody cares, than why are media networks covering it non stop for the past few weeks?

[@christianthao2291]

@@aladdin3241 because tiger didnt take the 9 figures. There has been more coverage on tiger not taking 9 figures than anything else. Hes also not playing this week and they are trying to sell LIV vs PGA tour. You know the only needle in golf is tiger woods. Tiger playing the PNC in December will get more ratings then this us open

[@aladdin3241]

@@christianthao2291 that's really not true though. Tigers refusing was only a few days.

[@christianthao2291]

@@aladdin3241 watch the ratings this us open compare to tiger at the master this year. Wont even be close in viewership

[@aladdin3241]

@@christianthao2291 we know tiger is big. But he has almost nothing to do with the LIV golf coverage.

[@per_growth]

honest question: why can't the PGA, with its 45 events, allow its members (superstar or not) to play 8 or 10 LIV events? interesting to see how many of the PGA superstars would jump at the chance to play the 8 or 10 LIV events with those huge purses IF the PGA allowed it.

[@fenixrising75]

Interesting point. Without knowing what is in PGA Tour bi-laws, we do know that players need to play 15 tournaments minimum to retain PGA membership. That's 15 weeks of golf. Play LIV golf events (8 at the moment) & players are playing 23 events while keeping to both tours regulations. That's why I don't understand the ban. PGA Tour rules allow members to play in other events.

[@jameswright7189]

What Stephen A. said, yo, period.

[@burningknuckle26]

I luv liv golf

[@dmilano56]

For all those announcers on major networks calling players out. Lets not forget that the PGA tour does business with Saudi Aramco. Kind of hypocritical to call anybody out on going to LIV

[@madD8845]

The players are independent contractors. The PGA tour pays no one. If you are on the tour you have to earn everything you get. Question…. Name a professional league where the rookies have to come up with $200k to participate in the season. The PGA’s policies has hindered the ability for poor and middle class people to join the league because of the cost which has been a huge barrier to entry. People thought that because of Tiger you would see more black and brown people on the tour but the opposite has happened. We had more black golfers on tour in the 70’s and 80’s than we have right now. The PGA is a joke of a league and organization and this league is exposing them for what they really are. I bet most of y’all didn’t know that the PGA tour had a Caucasian only clause up until 1961 and then after they removed the clause they put it on the golf courses to police, who still wouldn’t let blacks play.

[@MK-kf3vn]

Wow really? 1961 for the caucasians only clause? I thought the USA was such a FREE country. Did they sing god bless America in 1960 and before??

[@willgreer944]

Same thing happened when the MLF started in bass fishing

[@theimpaler5034]

Maybe the PGA &liv golf need to introduce 1 match play tournament per year PGA vrs liv golf

[@stevenjenkins3882]

You already got your check ✔️

[@Pippinm7]

02:00 Stephen A 🙌

[@antwainpatrick6669]

The issue is number of required tournaments to keep your card and still be able to play LIV. This has nothing to do with mid-level players making money!

[@PermanentNumberOne]

U grew up watching & aspiring to join a monopoly. Mr. Mickelson made the move to the LIV Tour on principle first & more financial security 4 his family.

[@STELLASCUTENESS]

I don’t think I’d EVER allow Steven A to lecture me…..about anything. His entire energy is offensive.

[@jacobr4558]

The PGA tour is hunger games. It's top heavy! That is what they talk about and televise. They don't have stories of all the players missing cuts and losing their cards. It's a nonprofit organization raking in some serious profit.

[@carlvonfuckwits2934]

Statistically Thursday morning T times have the winning players. Every player they don't like rarely get those. Their t times are rigged. They give drops based on who they like. Coverage, who they like. Its all rigged.

[@Matt-cr4vv]

All orgs are top heavy. You don’t catch sports center for the bench players.

[@jacobr4558]

Not the same. They don't have a cut and a progressively smaller payout.

[@decarlocalloway01]

I wish their was a LIV MMA League.

[@bigsletch3381]

They working on it now

[@TheIsraelMossad]

If PGA tour golf players except Saudi money it’s no different than every American accepting Chinese products and I feel like I don’t have to explain further how deep that connection goes with the sports leagues and business

[@ScottDreyfus]

Golfers deal with astronomical costs that most other sports don't have to deal with. You have a manager / agent / caddy/ coach / trainer/ nutritionist and have to pay out of pocket every day to live on the road. There isn't enough Money left over after taxes to live unless you are a top 200 player in the world. Life is pretty good is you are top 100 and have status but it's a merit based have. Players aren't employees of the tour they are members who paid to be there. My biggest issue us this is just history repeating itself. Jack and Arnie at the height of their fame started the then breakaway pga tour from the PGA of America because pros couldn't make a living. The sponsors went with the names. It's the same story now. The tour is acting like they are loosing employees. The o b ly thing that happens next is how much money in damages they are going to be forced to pay out in court. The commish is going to find out pretty soon he's standing alone outside the gate on Berkmans Rd never to set foot on property again. In a time of inclusion let's keep segregating.

[@kennethmatov1546]

Golf is one of those sports that can't really be debated passionately. 🤣

[@sunmod1529]

If LIV isn't around let's say in 2 years time, do these players just retire or does the PGA welcome them back?

[@bampie1]

If all the top players go play in the LIV then the TV money will follow.

[@michaelreyes8182]

You're comparing apples with oranges Danny boy. The NFL is not world wide....Golf is. Right now there are many PGA type tours. LIV just fills a nice place in the game.

[@Chris-0703]

What everyone is missing is that calling the PGA (or NFL or whatever) a “monopoly” is a misnomer; when you watch professional sports you want the best players in the world to be in the same league. This isn’t like deciding to eat Wendy’s or McDonald’s for lunch; I don’t want Tom Brady in one league and Peyton Manning in another. I want to see them head-to-head! That isn’t a monopoly, that is just the pinnacle of sports. You HAVE to have all of the best players in the same place, otherwise what is the point? It is boring and meaningless if they are spread across multiple leagues. LIV is not legitimate and will not succeed. It is boring, meaningless exhibition golf that is trying to appeal to people that don’t care about golf.

[@aero3085]

I can't help but remember what the PGA did to Jon Rahm. NEVER FORGET.

[@ianshort2935]

Having Dan orlovsky talking golf is another example of ESPN stretching their talking heads too thin. He's a football guy, and his point here doesn't line up to what is happening with LIV.

[@pavansunkara5358]

There are a few issues here, it is not so straight forward. I am of fan of european football(soccer). The entry of the middle east moghuls changed things. For example, abu dhabi acquired the manchester city football club. It was not a top team in england, never mind europe but these guys pump in so much money, both on and off books. I do not blame the players completely for jumping on them. after all, they have one career. Once they pump in the money at huge losses, then they will try and create a track record. Again case in point-manchester city is now widely considered a big, successful club and so they can run it with slightly less exorbitant money. The problem comes up with seeing this as a business for the saudis in the case of the PGA. It is not a business, it is a sports washing endeavour to deflect from all the atrocities and human rights violations in the country, making it more attractive for foreign investment and washing their image.

[@aladdin3241]

It's been happening way before any Arab waa involved. Hack for as long as the sport was a thing. From the Spanish government involvement with real Madrid,, certain Italian businessman with teams like Milan, and not to mention Russian oligarchs. At least now life of athletes are no longer in the line like it use to be.

[@pavansunkara5358]

@@aladdin3241 that is true mate.

[@Matt-cr4vv]

Word. People need to grasp the PGA can’t compete monetarily, even if they wanted too. The Saudi’s are pumping a seemingly endless supply of cash in with no expectation to ever make profit. Even if the PGA wanted to try and compete financially they couldn’t. Consider the guarantees to DJ, Phil and Bryson alone just to show up for LIV account for a third of what the PGA generates in revenue annually. The only financial competition then could conceivably offer is raising purses a bit, but even then they can’t match the purses LIV offers.

[@rdz5703]

It is quite common for independent contractors to have work restrictions while they are working for their "contractor" and also for a year or two after their job ends (depending on the circumstances - unless they live in a liberal anti-business state like California that prohibits enforcement of such a restrictive covenant. Also, the players are tour members that aside from agreeing to contractual restrictions , they are aside from being an independent contractor, they are also your members that agreed to and are technically part of the rule making process. Restrictive work covenants (depending on circumstances) are quite common in independent contractor relationships. Freedom of contract which is a free market principle, none of the players had to sign their tour contracts or agree to the tour rules when they joined...Too many misinformed fans....

[@slimpickens01]

Yet the players don't control their NIL. No wonder certain players refused to participate in EA Sports TWG.

[@gaggleduck1787]

I learned in school that Monopolies in our country were not allowed but if you rub the PGA the wrong way you’ll find out.

[@jerroldkazynski5480]

PGA played petty. That's a black eye for them. They thought they were the only game in town.

[@paulroscoe4315]

You can make $900,000 a year as a rookie warming the bench in the NBA. It is time for the PGA to open up the purse strings to it's pros and to reconsider allowing them to play in both the PGA and LIV

[@steverose3157]

I am shocked Stephen A. mentioned the point about doing business with China. He hit the nail on the head in this segment. And Collins is right. It's easy for guys like Mcllroy to speak of the supposed virtue in sticking with the PGA- HE ALREADY GOT HIS FAT PAYCHECK. If he or Tiger cares about the legacy regarding the PGA, perhaps they should lecture the PGA for giving the middle of the road players a reason to think of leaving in the first place.

[@johngleason1776]

Imagine getting paid by Nike and then criticizing others for getting money from immoral sources

[@winstonbradford2362]

In 2019 at the Masters " Tiger will never win a major again" and Francesca is this and that, is that right Michael? Who won? That's why they have simi pro basketball, football, and golf for players that are not at the highest levels. The best win and move on. The good stay where the are and complain. They are good but not good enough to move to the next level. Simple as that. Rory got his because he earned it by winning. Winning dude.