The PGA Tour-LIV Golf Battle, Explained | The Ringer

Ahead of The PGA’s British Open, The Ringer’s Kevin Clark breaks down everything we need to know about the battle between the PGA Tour and LIV Golf so far. He’s also joined by ESPN’s Kevin Van Valkenburg to find out everything he’s learned in his attendance and coverage of LIV Golf events.
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[@andrewshandle]

PGA a few months ago: "LIV doesn't care about money, they can spend whatever they want and it's unfair, and we can't compete!" PGA after a few more golfer's left: "Yeah, so we found 58M extra dollars and now have many tournaments with 20M in prize money which we said was impossible. We're also finally shortening the season after years of the players asking. Oh, and we're adding some no-cut tournaments...basically all the stuff we said we couldn't do." And then, after all the huffing and puffing by Rory and company, _every_ top 50 PGA player skipped the John Deere, the 2nd longest tenured sponsor on the tour.

[@dae1973]

This comment needs to be posted everywhere with neon light. Couldn’t have said it better myself👍🏿

[@mikeberecochea2020]

Pretty simple!

[@Tejas2148]

It’s cut throat business on both sides. Don’t blame either side. Welcome to capitalism

[@kelly8431]

^PGA only was socialism

[@zachbut13]

this comment is so stupid. look to the NLU pod if you want a full explanation.

[@19jc80]

I went to college in my 30's. I had a young family so we had Saudi students live in our basement as a source of income. For the most part they were great kids. This was around 2010 and their king was paying to send students all over the world to go to college. You can't tell me having a large portion of your young population go out and see the rest of the world then come back to your country isn't going to make a major change to your culture. We have to give credit for that. It takes a long time to change perceptions, but they seem to be making decisions that will help bring them out of the dark ages.

[@vivekwarrier8371]

This is happening across the Gulf for people that don't know. The UAE is also doing this and has already started replacing a lot of the foreigners in managerial positions with their own guys as of like 2017ish. The Gulf countries are pretty forward thinking when it comes to how to adapt and evolve.

[@kelly8431]

Love LIV, but don’t forget who was behind 9/11

[@MK-kf3vn]

Iran had been doing this since the 60’s. That’s why they are the most advanced country in the Middle East. This in the face of sanctions against them for over a decade.

[@rossmerchant8435]

@@kelly8431 AND who thinks they can assassinate journalists without impunity, arrests political dissenters, is behind war crimes in Yemen, etc. It's such a shame that bin Salman is turning out to be such a sociopath, because his intentions to modernize the country were initially promising.

[@brentoncole5488]

It seems like everyone is only looking at this from an American perspective! A lot of international players just want a chance to play tournaments in front of a global audience on home soil. And Liv is giving them that opportunity. I know that from an Australian perspective, the PGA gutted our local tour years ago to play more tournaments in the US at the same time of the year. The Aussie players have never forgiven them for that.

[@andrewshandle]

By Tiger's logic, no NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB or Professional Soccer player in the world has any incentive to work or try. So Michael Jordan never tried to get better, neither did Tom Brady, Wayne Gretzky, Bobby Orr, Lionel Messi, Aaron Judge...nope, they all just took their money and stopped trying, because why would they with a guaranteed contract? It's always cool when Billionaires, and one specifically who had already signed a 50+M deal with Nike _before_ his he played in his first pro tournament lectures everyone else on incentive structures.

[@laniruddh2291]

You realize that all the athletes you listed have a 12-15 year window to win right? Golfers can play for 30+ years. Phil Mickelson literally didn't give 2 fucks in any of the LIV events. He knew he was getting paid. Literally almost all LIV guys are playing it as leisure and that's the way it's been designed. The way you're comparing golf to the NFL, NBA, MLB or even football is hilarious. Those are physically demanding sports that require you to be at the top of your game every single game. To be fit. To be "locked in". You think if they offered Daly 100M tomorrow he'd play a single round of serious golf??? Exactly.

[@andrewshandle]

@@laniruddh2291 Tiger made over 50M before hitting his first tee shot as a professional....he managed to find a way to try. There's a great study that shows that when asked, 90% of people think they work hard, but everyone else is lazy, so that's how Tiger can say "well, I knew that _I_ would work hard after making that guaranteed money, but nobody else would." It's about as hypocritical from Tiger, the guy who smashed every record for guaranteed money in the PGA, as you can get, next he'll start criticizing the other players' marriages.

[@laniruddh2291]

@@andrewshandle love how oblivious you are about how sponsorship money works lol

[@andrewshandle]

@@laniruddh2291 You are splitting a very weird hair and it makes no sense based on Tiger's own words. Fact 1) Tiger was one of the riches golfers in the world _before_ hitting a single ball as a pro. Fact 2) Tiger is saying getting money up front removes incentives to get better. That's all that matters from what he said, and Fact 1 and 2 don't match at all. You saying "well, that money was sponsorship money, so it doesn't count" is ludicrous. Money is money, Tiger still found a way, despite being one the riches golfers in the world, to improve...get in the dirt as he said, because he wanted to be the best. Tiger is insisting that guaranteed money is the problem, not where the money comes from. And clearly, that's BS since Tiger himself got more guaranteed, up front money than any golfer in history when he turned pro.

[@mineshjogia9945]

@@laniruddh2291 Exactly how does length of time playing a sport determine how hard you try? You play a sport knowing full well up front how long your career can be, doesn't stop anybody from trying to be the best at whatever their chosen sport is. At best you have the weakest of arguments.

[@theodorestuebi9520]

That Louis Oosthuizen pronunciation threw me for a loop

[@phillipbarlow9387]

Nice one, by Kevin Clark. Love his NFL and F1 podcasts on The Ringer! I haven't watched the Netflix "Drive to Survive" show -- though everyone says it's great -- but I'll listen to Kevin 'chopping it up' with veteran British media F1 experts every week. It's a cool peek 'behind the curtain' of F1 strategy, tech, porpoising, etc.

[@TheGoldenBoot-cz1do]

I'd encourage everyone to watch pat mcafee's take on this he makes a lot of good points

[@Reloadeez]

I can never take someone with a window air conditioner serious.

[@rxrvee3275]

*seriously

[@facomori3110]

Saudi sportwashing Is The same at American corporations as sponsors in The PGA events

[@jdrummerdd]

not at all but go off

[@mineshjogia9945]

@@jdrummerdd It is, and it upsets you, it shows in your response. So if you were trying to hide the truth from the dummies you failed. Maybe you should spend your time going through some of the history of said corporations, I'll give you one to start with, how about say BMW and the Nazi's.

[@JaRW7]

It doesn't seem like LIV, as currently construction, could surpass the PGA or even become permanently viable. But who is to say they don't change their format as they encourage more people to join and eventually tap into more revenue streams. Also, as far as morality is concerned, you don't have to look too deep into the creators of this country, the PGA, it's clubs and sponsors before all those arguments take a hike. So it's probably smart for them to look to other ways to combat LIV.

[@banana403]

The interesting (you could say it's hypocritical) thing I find about LIV is that it boils down to the golfers wanting to work less and earn more.

[@rossmerchant8435]

This is definitely true, and a willingness to overlook that it's Saudi blood money is reprehensible. But I am a bit sympathetic to their argument (whether or not it's made in good faith) that this is an anti-trust issue. If there were more than two leagues, it wouldn't be as much of an issue if they forced players to pick one and stick with it. But PGA trying to use the leverage and power they have as the only established tournament to kneecap an up-and-coming competitor is not a good look.

[@joebaer1358]

@@rossmerchant8435 I don’t think it’s blood money it’s just oil money.

[@rossmerchant8435]

@@joebaer1358 yes, it's blood money. By taking it, they are complicit in laundering the reputation of a country that's currently engaged in war crimes, violent political suppression (including the detention and assassination of dissenters), and a whole host of other nefarious stuff

[@jiggajaybizzle]

All American money is blood money...... c'mon

[@rossmerchant8435]

@@jiggajaybizzle To an extent, yes, but America isn't at the point where the government is murdering journalists with impunity

[@FranciscoVargas-we8sb]

Tiger, you make more on sponsors

[@cogekacc]

Those who run the major tournaments will be sued into oblivion if they actively exclude players. Especially already exempt players

[@steveg209]

You think a golfer will sue Augusta National? Not gonna happen. Ever. Never ever.

[@joshuageraldbutler8037]

The slow news day sprint could be a good title for the show.

[@abro9598]

Easy for Tiger to say when he received guaranteed money from Nike.

[@AlexderD6697]

Tiger has one of the 4 big tournaments and his is the Genesis which is a major contributor to his foundation. He's part of the PGA organizational complex and LIV threatens his rice bowl. At most LIV will have 14 tournaments in 2023. Any PGA or EP player could meet their tour appearance requirements and still play the LIV Tour. The alternative is that LIV gives contracts to the 40 best golfers in the world and leaves the no-names to show up for PGA and DP tournaments. Frankly, its better to watch LIV on KZbin than cable because the action is continuous and ends in 5 hours.

[@steveg209]

People that watch golf (the ones whose attention and eyeballs are coveted by corporate sponsors like Rolex, Mercedes, and financial services companies) understand that the entire golf world has dined, and still dines, at Tiger’s rice bowl. Nobody believes LIV golfers will play 14 (soon to be 23 LIV events) AND play in 15 PGA Tour events. DP will soon require a similar number of events for membership.

[@angelmatos9143]

LPGA commissioner Mollie Marcoux Samaan said she’d take the call from LIV Golf

[@TheSeanLee85]

Why does it look like you are in my great grandmother's house?

[@mikeberecochea2020]

Funny that Monohan talks about never having to apologize for playing on the PGA Tour, but having to apologize for playing LIV because of the Saudi Connection. I don't see the PGA Tour apologizing for the Saudi money they get through this party sources. It's also tough to say, "we've told players they cannot play in competing events or without receiving an exemption from the PGA Tour for up to 3 per year without threat of suspension or lifetime ban", then not approve any requests. Players tried to follow the rule you set and they were kicked to the curb. Face it, the best in the world at any craft have egos. It's a big part of what made them the best in the world and this action by the PGA is probably a good part of the reason players are handling it this way.

[@Carefreeblues]

LIV's extravagant spending will not and cannot last, they're basically a startup burning cash to gain market share. Eventually bottomline has to be considered. My opinion is that every tour pro out there who has the opportunity to sign with LIV should do it NOW. Get your money and down the line you can always come back to the PGA Tour.

[@MGD313]

Pat Perez, welcome to Club Kevin!

[@Mad7zz]

The last point about softening it to make it ok for people to go over there. I don’t get that because we see how LeBron James, biggest name in sports, does business with Nike and their continued human rights violations in China. I just don’t see it helping or hurting the Saudi’s image. Or how it means these people get cancelled. The opposite in the NBA case were Daryl Morey was almost cancelled for “supporting” Hong Kong.

[@jdrummerdd]

you don't care about china lmfao, you just hate lebron. China was involved with the NBA for monetary gain. And that is capitalism, the entire system is meant to demean workers to make more money. That is fucked up, but it is not comparable. The Saudi's are actively throwing tons of money at golfers with seemingly no actual business plan. This is not how you build a league, they are not trying to "improve" golf. It is a state backed company that is attempting to use golf and its stars to legitimize their image in the business world. They are NOT making money from this and won't as long as they keep offering such massive contracts on top of prize money. You can be okay with watching, as long you know you are partaking in that. Lebron shouldn't have spoken abut Morey, but y'all use him as this example that somehow just excuses all other human rights violations that the saudi's take part in lol.

[@roycedot]

lol Tiger just saying to the world, "I'm in it for the money. Why would I practice if I'm getting paid millions just to be there"

[@andrewshandle]

Tiger also forgets that huge bag he got from Nike before even playing in a pro tournament...getting 50M before hitting his first ball didn't make him lazy.

[@larrymack2659]

@@andrewshandle Rich people are HILARIOUS!!!!🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@chrismccormack6570]

Slow News Day: Putt To Survive

[@johnhodgson8684]

Could they not just make a new series inside the PGA of extra point wins at the tournament playing in tandem . That would drop these liv players points and put the opens in question. Let's triple those points and put an open spot up there for the best 3 finish. Should open a gap 🤷 and make the PGA and Europe tour dates more attractive. Just be sneaky and put in another premium sub division that is basically open to all but unfortunately have dates that may need some to reschedule. Like an open championship league and maybe even a mixed pairs. Let's steal and bury that crap.

[@angelmatos9143]

I thought the US had invented Sports washing. MLB Met's purchase is one of the latest examples. I guess we can't stand the competition.

[@Nickunparalleled]

Slow News Day: Money Never Sleeps

[@larrybethune3909]

Phil didn't sell out, Phil was the game changer. Tiger and Rory look like Putzs.

[@theniceneighbor]

Since when did tweets become pledges.

[@alkalinedale]

Long news day

[@Marshmad]

Vlad got me here

[@jackwenger5028]

So what about the Saudi money the pga has ?

[@mrb43605]

There's way more oil than people acknowledge. USA has more than 300 years worth! It's constantly be renewed! Last weeks celebrity tournament was WAY more entertaining then the Scottish Open! Golfers watch entertaining golf! PGA is long and pretty boring!

[@MS_R1]

I have been a subscriber to this channel for a long time. This is has to be the worst stance you guys could take. A one sided “analysis” is not truly an analysis. Why not bring some LIV Golf guy and ask for his point of view? You could grill him if you want, but at least give LIV a chance to explain their position!

[@rudybetta]

I wonder how some of these now LIV golfers who are also anti Trump are going to like playing at his golf courses ? Or is it pockets full of cash soothe all aches and pains and LIV and let live ?

[@edmontalvo4364]

Work smarter not harter….

[@alfredogedengbe2591]

Lool this will never happen to the nfl cause the nfl has no appeal outside so America what's stopping it from happening to the nfl is the nfl itself

[@vqfive]

I've actually lost a lot of respect for Tiger with his comments that he came out with. But until our federal government cuts all ties with Saudi Arabia. Ban's people from traveling to Saudi Arabia. Only then can you make the argument about 9/11 but as long as we're still doing business and buying Saudi oil that's a ridiculous question to pose on golfers or anyone for that matter. Every player in NFL has guaranteed money every baseball player has guaranteed money every NBA player has guaranteed money but yet they still fight for a championship they still fight to have the best record during their season yet they still play and they get guaranteed money. But some how golfers are gonna not play to win because they get guaranteed money how ridiculous is that🤷

[@johnlongcock1122]

If anything they can probably train harder with the secure mindset of "I got nothing to lose" The risk reward factor can hold people back

[@theshortgolfer8687]

PROFESSIONALS jumping at the opportunity to earn more for doing less... it's just ludicrous!

[@Nighthawk-8050]

Look the Saudis made an offer to the PGA that they can't refuse.

[@Gman1044]

Blood money. All good until someone ends up in a suitcase

[@finalfrontier001]

Other than the misinformation and propaganda nice show.

[@GymAndSun]

😆 in this age facts you don’t like are propaganda

[@GymAndSun]

First comment on this channel I wonder why? 🧐

[@jwalk8546]

Guys attention please, far be it from me to disrespect the levels of smartness or opposite smartness you each possess. But not a single expert, novice. Scratch or duffer participating in this video, comments included, have remotely been close to right about anything on this video, except for me. In the future, please refrain from using "blood money" and discuss LIV/PGA or you could be canceled and wrong. Obvious attempt to show knowledge when it's opinion biased and guesses. Nothing mentioned about " hey maybe their could be an agreement with both tours to work together down the road" . No time for common sense because "bloody money" gets views.

[@deangood6682]

asking someone from espn is a total waste of time

[@GymAndSun]

Why should one get major points for 14 no cut exhibition like events a year against washed up and 2nd names? I don’t like playing in the NBA let me create 3v3 league with 20 games a year and still make the NBA playoffs

[@andrewshandle]

The majors just want the best players, they don't give a crap about LIV v. the PGA.

[@deanwalker7216]

Garbage. I’m all for making an income. We all got bills. But will never watch.

[@GymAndSun]

I’m with Tiger. LIV Golf = 💩