Disney World and the Death of Cities

[@trevorhannan5113]

"Nostalgia is History without the guilt." That line is incredibly poignant.

[@xandercruz900]

Having guilt from history is the hobby only bored people can afford.

[@alexwixom4599]

"Without context" would be a bit more accurate, but pointing the finger at history does add some more gravity to it.

[@Danexxy]

fascist love that stufff

[@NickCombs]

A longing for naivety

[@markhitchcock4159]

I have adopted the mantra of "nostalgia kills" as it restricts our ability to focus on actual societal progress and lends itself to developing ideologies like that of MAGA that have no actual basis in reality or history and can hide insidious beliefs within it.

[@keeblebrox]

When your landlord owns your home, owns your workplace, owns the land you travel through and the shops you frequent, you are a serf.

[@coolioso808]

We never really transcended serfdom. Lords just merged into owners of the means of production and serfs were 'free range wage slaves' to choose their Master, and only a few would rise up to the Ownership Class themselves, while the poor were there to scare the middle class into submission (to paraphrase the late great George Carlin). Well, many serfs have had enough. Time to take the power back. Build up mutual aid and worker co-operatives, share, fix, repair, care and produce, only when needed, locally on-demand. We have the tools, it's time to start using them, collectively. One Small Town model can help. Anark strategies can help. Degrowth scholars can help, like Jason Hickel and a whole host of others books really help, like The New Human Rights Movement, Zero Marginal Cost Society and Moneyless Society.

[@Imfromtheportlandorarea]

Republican doesn’t work

[@zjsz4954]

Damn bro my last name translates to “freed from serfdom” turns out that was a fucking lie

[@kallmannkallmann]

Well your allowed to move around at least. In old Sweden you where not allowed to move outside your village area.

[@TheEvolver311]

​@@TwisterTornado Serfs didn't have freedom of movement. Technically serfs were tied to the land.

[@maximilianomadrigal6661]

Fun fact despite the fact Disney world is in Florida they don't have a mosquito problem because they literally get rid of any standing water, IN THE ENTIRE PARK.

[@Forsworcen]

It’s even crazier when you learn that it’s built on top of what used to be a marsh.

[@eminyild]

like no fountains etc at all?

[@maximilianomadrigal6661]

@@eminyild mosquitos don't lay their eggs in running water, so there's basically no puddles by design

[@MultiAwesomered]

That's... How you're supposed to get rid of mosquitoes. You could do the same at your house

[@shreddedyeet]

​@@MultiAwesomeredmost people don't have the budget of the Disney landscaping team

[@hrishikesh-s]

The suburbs of the US are so unnatural that it’s almost disconcerting after you have been here for a while. As someone who grew up elsewhere, the amount of curation done here just renders everything soulless

[@vylbird8014]

Much of that curation is aimed at making them just expensive enough to live in. As the US ended racial segregation it was replaced by wealth segregation. The suburbs are engineered to be expensive so that the people living there do not have to encounter their socioeconomic inferiors. The roads are made to be impossible to traverse on foot and zoning codes ensure work, home and retail are never within walking distance so it's impossible to live in the area without a car. Building codes prohibit the construction of apartment blocks, permitting only the expensive single-family homes with a minimum lot size and expansive lawn. It's made to be exclusive: If you can't afford the cost of a very large house and car then you are not welcome in that community.

[@Bojoschannel]

Yeah, growing up i usually went to America and its suburbs to visit family and they always had this eerie feeling around them. The sterility of em, the repetitive houses, the almost mute sound and the lack of much people outside make them feel like cement deserts

[@JohnClark-tt2bl]

​@@vylbird8014I don't know how true that is anymore. Around here the burbs and urban areas are about the same cost wise.

[@eyespy3001]

@@vylbird8014Some of what you wrote is simply not true at all. Suburbs have public transportation. It might not be the greatest, but it exists. Houses in the suburbs vary GREATLY. For every “very large house” there are 50 that are modest. There are also apartment developments in most suburban areas. The 5-over-1 apartment building is as omnipresent as the Monobloc chair. As for zoning laws, well, they exist for a reason. NOBODY wants to live next door to a slaughterhouse, or a waste treatment facility. NOBODY wants to live next door to a rowdy bar, or a concert venue, or five feet from a seafood restaurant’s dumpster. Not everybody wants to live stacked on top of 100 strangers, with as much space as a jail cell. Some people enjoy the feel of grass under their feet, and a yard in which they can build a garden. Why is this being demonized?

[@eyespy3001]

What is soulless about landscaping??? Compared to a city, where the land has literally been stripped of life and covered in asphalt, cement, steel, and glass; where humans are stacked on top of each other in exorbitantly expensive sardine cans, forced to work just to survive and pay some landlord’s mortgage and make them rich… I’ve lived in both cities and suburbs (in New York, no less), and I’ll take the openness and freedom of living in the suburbs any day. I can go anywhere I want, when I want. I enjoy the tranquility of crickets at night rather than car horns and car alarms. I enjoy the fact that there’s a twenty foot buffer of grass, trees, and shrubs between my neighbor and me rather than a total of 1” of drywall and (maybe) some insulation.

[@Pandaemoni]

I was briefly arrested in Disney World. I saw an angry man roughly grab a woman and I (overly-passively) asked "if" there was a problem. He told me to mind my own business and that he was her husband. It looked likely to come down to there being a fight, there some pushing, and the golf carts were on us in less than a minutes, The level surveillance and response time was honestly impressive (they may have been watching the couple before I butted in). The "cops" were nice enough to me and one even thanked me for intervening. We mostly talked about how Disney World is in a swamp and yet has no mosquitos. No charges were filed and I was let go after about 20 minutes. I got to see the under park tunnels which was nice.

[@marknugent9851]

The best KZbin community: confirmed!

[@roscojenkins7451]

Now imagine that in your home town/city. U have a spat with someone and police saw it from their three drones watching and arrived and carried u and the aggressor away. Now let's say you weren't in an altercation like that but you were were practicing your first amendment right and saying something against the government and every aspect of your life is now recorded to "make sure you're not a threat"... This isn't a right wing or left wing conspiracy... And it doesn't matter if the hypothetical person was pro Trump or pro Harris... It affects us all in a police state

[@Drilla81]

You were detained, you weren't arrested. HUGE DIFFERENCE. Our constitution is based on us being aware of our rights as American Citizens.

[@Pandaemoni]

@@Drilla81 I was told I could not leave until they were done questioning me and that I had to accompany them to the police station. That makes it an "arrest" in the legal sense, i.e., the use of legal authority to deny me my freedom of movement. Besides, they *could* have charged me with assault or disorderly conduct as I did some pushing (back) in the altercation, they just chose not to given the circumstances.

[@kylec8259]

What a man does with HIS woman is NONE of your goddamn business

[@kevinhyde9671]

i was pronounced dead on disney property and came back as a ghost that watches youtube

[@melkerart1793]

This should be the most liked comment here

[@mrtyddet9726]

no shot

[@Pandaemoni]

So...welcome to Hell! We do hope you don't enjoy your stay.

[@NickCombs]

F

[@Tera_B_Twilight]

I came here just to find your comment. Hope you have a happy afterlife.

[@Nekorook]

"British pubs without drunk guys trying to headbutt you." nah mate, you just gotta go near the end of the day and meet the drinking around the world crowd.

[@manicstatic370]

That’s the best time

[@sparkside217]

I feel it's a miss to not call out car dependency deliberately and how zoning laws and destruction of public transit has created homogenous places covered in parking lots. A lot of charm for Disney's Main Street comes from its walkability and the convenient experience of walking from a shop to somewhere with food, to an entertainment venue (ride), to a dessert place, back to shopping etc. I agree with everything in the video but I feel the fact that most US cities are littered with unworkable strip malls and chain restaurants surrounded by parking lot inspires a lot of travel to the usual walkable vacation spots, from Disney to NY to Europe/Asia

[@alicewright4322]

"disneyland is just about the only place in america you can find a main street anymore. and just try buyin a gun there" -Hank Hill

[@Bojoschannel]

Here in Mexico there is this program for increasing tourism called "pueblos mágicos" (magic towns) in which small, and not so small towns from the country with some cultural significance can apply for it in exchange for funding for development and appearance on the list of "pueblos mágicos". As its expected this has led to a lot of corruption, environmental damage, exploitation of local labor, overtourism, gentrification and increased drug distribution while making the rich richer, among other not so pleasant results, like the drive to appeal to foreign wealthy tourists, specially americans. This has led to what me and my father have called for years disneyfication, basically these towns become México-themed Disney parks, with even the government promoting "Disney style hospitality" courses in some of these places. So, instead of getting the "authentic" mexican experience, you can spend your time in a resort that feels like an american suburb, go to a restaurant that will serve you a Mole as sweet as chocolate pudding, fajitas (a texmex dish) and margaritas and finally buy some Mexico themed trinkets that aren't even made in Mexico and look the same in Ensenada as in Cancún. There are even places where the locals are incentiviced to completely make up local tales, traditions and legends, even dances to entertain tourists, there are places where you can even learn to make tortillas "the old way" with an abuelita, for a price obviously. Even some festivals, like la Guelaguetza, that once were public and made by locals have become privatized. All of this of course is permitted and even promoted by the authorities and government officials, you don't like the disneyfication of your country? , time for a police beating or worse, getting k*lled by a cartel member hired by a politician or a businessman (or both). Worst of all, is that our country is one of so much diversity, ethnically, culturally and environmentally. We have almost every ecosystem in the world and the second greatest ethnic diversity, yet everything is getting diluted, standardized and degraded. Our greatest riches destroyed for the profit of a few as always...

[@michaelmoraga2926]

México 💜

[@lupitafmartinez1006]

yo vivo en un pueblo mágico y en los años posteriores a los que se empezó a implementar el programa muchos negocios locales tuvieron que cerrar porque no se adaptaban a ese estándar impuesto sin hablar de lo mucho que aumento el costo de vida que de por si ya era caro por ser frontera

[@KBird204]

This is so sad to hear, I went to Cuetzalan a few years ago and thought the town was GORGEOUS. I guess no place is safe from exploitation 😢

[@KBird204]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@lupitafmartinez1006Pensaba mudarme de los Estados Unidos a Cuetzalan, pero tal vez ya no 😢. Ojala se mejora tu situacion pronto 🙏

[@Matty002]

capitalism is a hell of a drug

[@afrinaut3094]

Y’all should continue this analysis of the dystopian co-opting of walkable-urbanism initiatives, via theme park control designs, by partnering up with Not-Just-Bikes & Defunctland. It would be kool to see what all of y’all would come up with.

[@ellipsis616]

As a non-US citizen, your video resonated with my summer experience. I spent a month living in NYC and went everywhere on foot or by metro. Then I spent days at Disney Parks in Orlando. The sheer scale of the park is surreal, and the city itself is impossible to navigate on foot. Friends living in Orlando told me that it's impossible to live without a car because there aren't even places to walk. It's more like a collection of towns connected by highways that don't welcome pedestrians. In Disney Park Orlando, I couldn't help but feel a sense of unease when I noticed that a large proportion of the rides seemed abandoned. There were popular rides that required a two-hour wait, yet others you could just walk onto because nobody was in line-the seats weren't even close to full. Since I had plenty of time, I went on nearly every ride, especially those with no queues. The queue section originally designed to keep visitors moving, had become empty alleys that I had to walk through quickly. It felt like being in a horror game with a dreamlike atmosphere. I agree with your perception of Main Street America. I couldn't shake a similar feeling at the EPCOT World Celebration. Interestingly, the park is mostly filled with adults pushing strollers and kids under 10, clearly catering to a specific demographic: You don't need to travel by plane or experience the embarrassment of not knowing the language to explore different cultures here. Instead, you're presented with an idealized, sanitized version of the world. Also, in EPCOT, the “America” section is placed in the middle, surrounded by representations of other cultures. That choice of design says something. Another interesting observation was the increasing prevalence of Spanish. I noticed that some shows in Orlando, like “Frozen,” seemed slightly updated with Spanish jokes. Most of the audience laughed, while I, not speaking Spanish, felt a bit confused. While Disney is often associated with a traditional white American experience or its "golden age," this also says something. Talking about conflicting feelings regarding Disneyland, alongside critical thinking and reading materials about the park's impact on the natural landscape and its minimal wages for laborers, I couldn't help but appreciate the well-maintained restrooms. As a woman used to long lines and dirty public restrooms, deep down, I guiltily wish the world could be a bit more like this ideal-a place that is safe, clean, pleasantly scented, where you can easily find someone to help you with a smile, refill your water bottle, and is always stocked with toilet paper.

[@sircharlesmormont9300]

As a non-driving American, I can confirm that the car-dependent nature of our cities and towns makes walking from place to place unsafe, impractical, or downright illegal. Also, a lot of a us speak at least a smidgen of Spanish. It's the second most common language in my area. My local thrift shop does all of the overhead announcements and signage in Spanish.

[@michaelmoraga2926]

'...a place that is safe, clean, pleasantly scented, where you can easily find someone to help you with a smile, refill your water bottle, and is always stocked with toilet paper.'... You should visit Japan.

[@Matty002]

​@@sircharlesmormont9300non latinos speaking any spanish is only true in the border states and cities with high latino populations. to say its applicable to the whole country is wildly inaccurate. its like saying alot of europeans speak a smidgen of chinese: nobody would say that

[@sircharlesmormont9300]

@@Matty002 Dude, I live in a small town in a flyover state. I think it's more prevalent than you think it is. I work in a library with a staff of 6. Two of us speak Spanish. One is fluent (not me). I use Spanish almost every day. When I worked at an outdoor store, the situation was similar: a few of us spoke Spanish and we used it fairly regularly with customers. It's a useful language to learn if you work with the public - and since I do work with the public, it has been fairly common for my coworkers and I to make use of it.

[@popejaimie]

​@@Matty002nah hombre, people speak mucho Espanol in America, even if they're flyover state gringos. Gracias for reading, adios amigo

[@momscastle]

I'm going to be honest with you, Morpheus. I....hate this place. This zoo. This prison; this reality whatever you want to call it. I can't stand it any longer. It's the smell!

[@astronaut4291]

Just rewatched this last night, so damn good

[@camelopardalis84]

​@@astronaut4291 What is it?

[@hypothalapotamus5293]

Whether the matrix is good or evil is debatable. From the perspective of Cypher, a hedonist, the matrix offers a quality of life that cannot be achieved in the real world where they are cold and hungry. From the perspective of morpheus, it is a lie to keep humanity imprisoned. This is mirrored in the symbolism of the film. The most obvious is the new testament interpretation where Neo is Jesus and Morpheus is John the baptist (matrix=evil), but there is also a Genesis interpretation. In the genesis interpretation; Trinity is eve, Neo is Adam, Morpheus is the snake, and the Matrix is the garden of Eden. Neo/Adam is tricked into eating the forbidden fruit and is cast out of paradise.

[@VegetableTelevision]

@@camelopardalis84it’s from the matrix

[@archiguy1571]

As an architect there is a lot of overlap between architecture and philosophy. But before that a couple of points. 1. New urbanism was not influence by Disney. It just feels like a theme park because it’s new but supposed to be old. 2. People want to go out where there are safe. 3. The high line in New York was a local movement to transform an unused elevated rail line into a park. It made that area desirable and these the new buildings. 4. We are building faster now that in previous generations. So we don’t have the benefit of layers of history.

[@calebwilliamsmusician]

Great points 👏

[@JumboDS64]

Yeah, although I do think it's totally fair to criticize how the High Line facilitates the Instagram sort of "look but dont actually touch" phenomenon, I think it's a great project and it's nice to have what is essentially a long, thing park over the city.

[@golbez1583]

Nice to hear that Disney manages their parks with the same moral compass that Dr Doom manages Latveria.

[@fedupN]

Doom is better than Disney because he actually provides for the people rather than just making the place a tourist trap to steal your money.

[@Matty002]

​@@fedupNyeah i dont know much about dr doom, but i do know he legitimately cares about his people, not GDP

[@stoodmuffinpersonal3144]

the irony that Disney has cast Doctor Doom again, too lol

[@stoodmuffinpersonal3144]

​@Matty002 which is crazy to think him and Magneto would be more ethical than Disney land cause I don't THINK Disney has murdered anyone... but those two sure have lol

[@K1ng1995]

​@@stoodmuffinpersonal3144 Fun fact: Dr Doom and Mangeto actually teamed up against Red Skull and Hydra

[@GibertPlays]

The weenie thing refers to getting dogs to behave on screen. You want them to look left you hold up a weenie on the left. Look up, hold it up.

[@GibertPlays]

At least, that’s what i’ve heard. I’m not like a dog movie historian or anything.

[@methos1999]

No the weenie thing is simply a way to help navigate the parks.

[@GibertPlays]

@@methos1999 oh i mean, the term came from film making when directors would try to get dogs to act.

[@movinup990]

@@GibertPlaysso we’re the dogs 😂

[@Mickey784cr]

No, it's because Walt liked hot dogs.

[@penumbragsm6276]

Video starts at 3:10

[@4runner4summer]

👑

[@pokelover02]

Excellent video! This was my exact thought when I visited Waikiki this summer. It was like a Disneyland city. All tourist-focused cities feel so dystopian and oppressive, and it’s definitely leaking into other cities too.

[@Ella-g2m]

Missing that the key to these places is safe walkability, as in, people are collectively traumatized by the invasiveness, hostility, and omnipresence of cars, especially high speed stroads and pedestrian-hostile infrastructure that turns a mundane daily commute into a high risk battle to survive for everyone existing outside of a car. These areas you mock provide walkability people crave but cannot attain. The builders of them miss this, too. It isn't about simulacra, it's about human-scaled, peaceful, non-hostile places to exist in, and even in third spaces which the Highline counts as. A place you can exist in, without being charged money, that is neither work nor home but a third place, which the US sorely lacks in. I don't care if it is Disney-esque; I care that I can exist there without being run over. The cheesyness of Disney-esque design is not the objective but an unnecessary side quality I am willing to overlook. So, yes. Give me Chelsea Market, Pike Place, the Riverfront Walk, and the Highline. Places that are pleasant to exist in because they are protected from the invasiveness of hostile car dominance.

[@hornedgoddess8191]

When I was training to be a sales associate, they were very insistent on teaching everyone about keeping guests immersed and maintaining the magic of Disney. The contrast between the colorful, ambient surface of Disneyland and the dark, industrial tunnels that I was required to descend every shift was very bizarre and a bit disorienting at first.

[@CH47Flyingtwinkie]

Former Casino worker here. Philosophically speaking, the parallels exist. That does not discount moral people trying to do what they see is right and good. Provide safe environment for happiness.

[@stoodmuffinpersonal3144]

Which says a lot from a casino guy, considering... the fact that casinos facilitate one of the most habit/ addiction forming sources of entertainment on earth 😅

[@rbruch98]

I currently do Security... In Florida, in the entertainment industry, perhaps for the place where you had your experience in the underground processing office... All of the mentioned topics swirl around in my mind quite often. Actually, Im a little surprised about the lack of mention of the role that social media plays in all this - but it's so frequently mentioned and discussed that i understand the omission. Personally, I'm fine with the sanitized, safe, choreographed nature of theme parks (and movies, TV shows, etc). Where I see the problem is when it spreads out beyond those limited experiences - limited by time, space, location. When *everything* is curated, *everything* is monetized and controlled, I take issue because of the lack of freedom, the organic random things that can happen. Ironically, the gaming industry thrives on the opposite: these random, organic, sometimes messy or stressful situations that arise while playing are often the best parts of the experience.

[@RakoonCD]

Ah, but the "big men" of those industries are also catching on, mainly for profit.

[@K1ng1995]

Exactly, I want security at a theme park. But that's it.

[@LiquidChamploo]

I once got taken down in the Magic Kingdom tunnels when a friend of mine was having a bad LSD trip in the parks. They took us down to what we thought was a medical center, but then they started questioning us and we realized we were in "Disney Jail". My friend (still tripping out if his mind) told me to run and not get caught up in this, I remember just running through the tunnels from security and seeing Disney princesses texting and eating sandwiches, some character heads, and I just ran up some random stairs and ended up somewhere next to Haunted Mansion. What a crazy trip.

[@vi0let831]

What happened to him?

[@taylorgrigsby2014]

I got kicked out of a University Bookstore once - well, I had already left with a box full of coupons. The security guard ran up behind me while i was walking and snatched it out from under my arm, "Not yours, this is for the students!" Then he told me never to come back. I went back 10 years later. Nothing happened.

[@Zak_How]

You were wrong

[@LucasDimoveo]

I've noticed something about San Francisco, which is spreading to other places. Public spaces degrade, and more places are gated off. You then get a situation where far flung suburbs and enclosed places within cities are very, very nice. The public spaces such as sidewalks and buses suffer.

[@keldonmcfarland2969]

San Francisco has to be gated off because homeless drug addicts are taking over. Because drug abuse is legal and the city gives active addicts needles, the places that haven't been ruined need to be protected.

[@blankenstein1649]

my wife's mom didn't die at disneyland, but she used to work for them as a customed character and she *ALMOST* died after falling off of a christmas parade float, breaking her neck, and almost getting run over by the float she had fallen off of.

[@comicbrandon]

Skill issue

[@AceTheBatHound99]

​@@comicbrandonDick

[@blankenstein1649]

@@comicbrandon or, considering you don't know the details of the story, a lack of safety precautions on the part of the employer. this accident directly led to new safety standards at the park, so no, this wasn't a skill issue. don't be a dick.

[@comicbrandon]

@@blankenstein1649 me: joke You: reprimand You up for a discussion?

[@blankenstein1649]

@@comicbrandon it's a low effort joke, quit act like grabbing the low hanging fruit makes you the next george carlin.

[@anthonydelfino6171]

Per your request… when I was 17 I was kicked out of Sea World in San Diego One of the staff was walking an otter through the park on a leash. And despite being told not to, I couldn’t help myself from petting it. Got in a lot of trouble for it

[@thejtotti29]

As an architect, one thing stands out to me as the main contributor to the issues brought up in this video is the financialization of the built environment. When architecture and in this case entire urban centers are built primarily for their ability to serve as speculative commodities, there are misaligned incentives between the developer-investors and the people who will actually dwell in what they build. Investors are attracted to things that have secure growth Potential, are easily marketed, and that have high profit margins; each of these motivations are directly opposed to a community’s needs for housing and public space that is sensitive to local economic conditions, responsive and inclusive of local cultures and customs, and of high quality and long lifespan. Collectivized ownership of public space and architecture generally is the only way I see out of this bind, but as it stands, development costs are so high and wealth inequality is so extreme that most Americans have no choice but to continue living in a hyper-commodified places. Worse still, designers are powerless to make anything better when their patrons are the investors; if you dig your heels in on principled design that gets in the way of their financial goals you just get fired and they hire somebody else with a weaker moral backbone to do the work they want.

[@danieldeleon5216]

the nostalgia people feel when reminiscing about college feels very related to why we find theme parks and malls so appealing. we all just want some walkable cities, but the only way we’ll get to experience one is through consumption😅

[@Hession0Drasha]

The most soul crushing aspect of the world today, is the increasing amount of rent seeking, to be able to be allowed to engage with other people. It seems like in the not too distant future, you will need to spend money just to exist in an area. That the public will cease to exist entirely.

[@johnperry6908]

I liked the video a lot, but as someone who lives in Dallas I'd like to say: 1. Picking up brioche at the boulangerie is a *very* Dallas activity 2. The midtown development doesn't have to worry about taking local architecture into account because Dallas doesn't have any unique architectural style. Dallas is a Texas city trying to pretend that it's on the east coast. If it was built next door in Fort worth there'd be the local Hispanic influenced/art deco architecture to worry about, but Dallas has no unifying architecture. There's a reason it was used to film Robocop

[@oopsy444]

I imagine him asking his wife to go to grateful bread like a child asks to go to Disney land and his wife in her head is like "this is marriage i guess"

[@WisecrackEDU]

Very much so.

[@Coracora-he9pz]

Bro got arrested by shrek

[@SpaceWizardCosplay]

Better yet, he was arrested by Donkey.

[@squirrelychris]

Although I understand the criticism of the utopian main street projects, I enjoy the increase in housing and the walkable spaces it provides. It is kind of a, "hey look what american cities could be like if we embraced some urbanism from a fundamental level rather than letting corporations or policy dictate when we can experience it". People are drawn to them for a reason, modern america lacks community spaces, it is unfortunate that it is an insidious corporate capitalist trap.

[@Matty002]

the irony is many cities HAD dense walkable 'main streets' which were accessible to ALL, but were destroyed for the car and made illegal to build instead of suburbs. and dont forget when he says these 'projects' are NOT for all. theyre very specifically for the upper class to pretend to have a main street without the lower classes or public transit. its a gentrified version of a city, which defeats the purpose of a city.

[@K1ng1995]

​@@Matty002 To add to your point. GM and Firestone ripped the LA street car system in the 40's to sell busses, tires, and fuel.

[@shepsfield]

this is a weird and kind of unrelated comment but as an artist with derealization and motivation issues and a lot of questions to myself about theatre and entertainment, this really helped me reconcile my reality with my art and motive and the art of others, thank you so much

[@ElvishShellfish]

This is why I like Buffalo. The old abandoned factories are still just old abandoned factories, not a Zara’s.

[@cinnamonnoir2487]

To be fair, you also have Wegmans, so it's not like every city could just become Buffalo if it wanted to. Seriously, though, I love Buffalo. It's a very pretty, laid-back city.

[@lawnmowerdude]

One thing I’ve noticed about theme parks is they a simulation of a perfect city. You have an apartment you walk or take public transportation to downtown and walk around for entertainment and food.

[@woodyswrt]

There has been at least one person pronounced dead at Disneyland because I was the paramedic that pronounced the death.

[@hayleyhellbound9513]

Parking garage jumpers don’t count

[@brownenerdygurl]

Really!?!? (Said the former medic with her morbid curiosity). I thought you had to transport them offsite. No?

[@AtlantaBill]

It makes me want to find a used book store that may have old sociology textbooks dealing with urban planning.

[@skylaindigoink2013]

This was truly paradigm-shifting. Many thanks 🧚🏾‍♂️

[@nemothenobody7859]

The hyper-reality or " hyper-sanitized version of nostalgia" provided by theme parks or the idealized shows like "Full House" or "Leave It to Beaver" is the "history" that conservative talking heads desire and discuss. I am glad to have a new term to explain my thoughts better!

[@derek7710]

I died at Wild Kingdom in 2018. Immediately six Disney lawyers and a Florida surveyor drew a chalk square around my body and officially declared that 5x 3.5 ft parcel to the state.

[@Liquidsback]

I got thrown put of theme park, after getting waisted and pulling a Randy Marsh.

[@sgrace6813]

9:57 not a rumor. If someone dies at Disney, they are taken to a hospital and legally pronounced dead there.

[@darenford5635]

Love this! In 2001, I did my undergraduate thesis on Utopian communities focusing on EPCOT.

[@jpkotta]

Disney calls employees "castmembers". Obviously the performers, but also people like janitors. My aunt worked for Disney for years as a hotel manager, and she unfailingly called all employees castmembers, which makes it seem more like it was spelled with "ul" than "as".

[@Jetse_Dv]

In the Netherlands we have all these (brand) stores going bankrupt creating a lot of empty brick and mortar. It’s all due to online shopping, which I’m totally guilty of. I would rather have our city centres to be disneyfied instead of being ghost towns

[@the.masked.one.studio4899]

You did a great job of explaining why I’ve always though theme parks are creepy!

[@kyleaca5122]

I haven’t been arrested but my high school band got to perform at Disneyland and we got to see the back side of the park. It just looks like a giant industrial park

[@robertlong9591]

Thank you for summarizing my entire experience with my ex who was so obsessed with Disney that she stayed with a job at a company that routinely took advantage of her so she could continue living in Central Florida, emotionally manipulated me into moving there so she could make rent, and then forced me into her and our roommate’s personal maid because they were both raised by hoarders. That was the worst year of my life and that’s coming from someone who spent most of their early twenties undergoing treatment for suicidal depression.

[@jeffreyrussell4874]

The word "Amusement" is really interesting when you think about it. The word "muse" means to ponder in thought, usually in some creative means but not always. And adding the prefix "A" before a word means to have the absence or lack of. So an "Amusement" park is a place you go to not think. So if our real cities are slowly taking on the facade of an Amusement park... what does that mean, big picture? Just a thought.

[@thevarietychannelofyoutube4769]

The idea that all cities in the US are no different from commercial theme parks is a pretty huge stretch.

[@vitalyvolkov1618]

We already have this on the state level (international, not US state): Singapore. It isn’t called “Disneyland with death penalty” for nothing.

[@monkeytimestamps4915]

14:20 This quote hit me so hard I’ve had the video paused for like a full minute sitting in silence

[@theoptimisticmetalhead7787]

Oh shit, shoutout Dallas Midtown. I used to live there (in the current neighborhood, not the gentrified complex, which is yet to actually be built) The neighborhood used to be called Vickery Meadow, then they renamed it Vickery Midtown, which is when a bunch of smaller, but nicer, for-the-rich-only mixed-used complexes have gone up. You could tell how long people had lived in Dallas based on how they reacted when I told them that's where I lived. Grew up in Dallas? Your reaction was "Oh shit, for real? That's rough streets out there!" Those people were thinking of what's on the east side of Greenville Ave. New to the area? Your reaction was "Oh cool, that's such a nice neighborhood!" Those people were thinking about what's on the west side of Greenville Ave, or even on the other side of 75.

[@dionysuscreativellc7569]

You are really hitting the nail on the head here. All urban planners, theme park designers; production designers, and concept illustrators need to watch this as a primer for future design and fundamental understanding of where we are now and how we got here. Only through this understanding can we begin to adapt and transform the way we presently present our created worlds to fit the real world of human experience. Thanks.

[@HenshinHead]

It's funny coming at this one as someone who's a fanatic of theme parks. My appreciation for them isn't the safe, sanitized experiences they provide, but in just how detailed and immersive some themed experiences can be, the amount of research and artistry that can go into making an imagined place feel real and authentic. Imagineers and theme park designers take pride in being able to recreate a real-world spot to the last detail or bringing an imaginary place to life. And I think we can all understand the desire to want to escape into the unreal and the imaginary, especially when the real world can be a cruel, harsh, sometimes frightening place. But it's one thing to purposely go into a hyperreal space and expect certain impositions; you're doing that with the understanding that you are entering a privately owned and controlled space. It's another to take that line of thinking back into the real world and impose it onto public spaces. Especially if all you're going to do is bulldoze over what's already there and build a generic condominium with a fake town square that's just a glorified strip mall. Admittedly there are alot of lessons urban planners could take from someplace purpose-built like Disney World. There are major cities that could benefit from more centralized street plans, more availability of public transportation, more dedicated spaces for government, commerce, living spaces, etc. Part of me still wonders how different the world would be if Walt Disney had lived long enough to build his EPCOT, if it would've been a revolution in city planning or a dystopian nightmare for unwitting Disney employees. But the goal should be to make the final product someplace efficient and accessible, not someplace so homogenized, commercialized, and surveilled that is has no soul. There should be space to incorporate and build up from what's already there, to throw in a dash of local flavor to the architecture and build spaces that meet the need of the people already living there. Heck this is an issue that has fallen back onto Disney theme parks and the spaces around them. Fans have been complaining for years about the increased commercialization within the parks, the downgraded theming in new attractions and resorts. And that's not even including the growing awareness of those tight security measures and the frightening level of surveillance. Not every public place needs to be an outdoor mall overrun by rent-a-cops. But there is room to improve the public spaces we have, to make them welcoming and accessible without driving people away and allowing people freedom of movement and expression within those spaces. And those same tools that can be used to create sanitized versions of the real world, can easily be used to recreate the darker, uglier history hiding behind the facades and create a richer, more authentic experience. That Imagineering mindset is also a toolset, how it's used outside those hidden walls of Disneyland is up to us.

[@Maccbruce]

You are describing Parkification. Gated communities and HOA are an example of this type of security area. The Sturgis motorcycle event allows the town to be virtually "lawless". An extreme example is how Singapore is the "free port" for Malaysia while technically not fully part of the surrounding motherland.

[@alyssarouso]

As someone who works at Disney World, who loves Disney very deeply, who is a big Disney nerd, but is also one of Disney's biggest critics, this is a great video. It gets it all right. There are a lot of things I am not allowed to comment on so as to keep my job. There isn's as much mystique behind working for Disney as people think, but it is a lot more like working for security or government, yes. There are a lot of control techniques. We keep a lot of secrets, we have lots of doors, we have eyes everywhere, we all know someone, we have so many ways of communicating, we've all worked everywhere. And I do notice that theme park designers are more frequently working in Government, Infrastructure, and Security and vice versa. It also it very common that both corporations and the government have huge data profiles on you.

[@alyssarouso]

@proxypylon You'd be surprised how many people do

[@K1ng1995]

​@@alyssarouso Well is it bad thinking that I want to feel safe while I'm at a theme park?

[@alyssarouso]

@@K1ng1995 Absolutely not. And I'd say a theme park is probably the safest place to be. Theme parks tend to operate safer than the public open spaces around them.

[@K1ng1995]

@@alyssarouso but I also understand that turning cities into theme parks and creating houses that no local citizen can afford, and kicking out minority groups that were there first is completely wrong.

[@angelicaziffer9106]

I'm from Florence. The city center of Italian cities is a great case study for this argument: souvernis shops, restaurants for tourists and many other traps. And of course mc Donalds and Starbucks. We are selling our cities.

[@MrHodoAstartes]

That's something that happens everywhere that tourists are common. You have the great advantage that your inner cities are seen as worth a visit the way they are built. So desirable in fact, people build artificial facsimiles of them. I've not been to Florence, but in Rome I noticed the tourist traps were extremely concentrated around the big monuments and a block down the road you're in normal Rome again. You exerience the outer edge of other people's theme park lives. Just be happy you're not in Suburbia, with no shop or public service facilities for miles around as you are caught in a maze of fractal cul-de-sacs. Identical buildings as far as the eye can see, an upper-middle-class wasteland that gives you nothing in the way of community or amenity.

[@aetherkid]

Italy has been a tourist destination for thousands of years. It just shrank from the center of an empire to a little state

[@camelopardalis84]

​@@MrHodoAstartes I doubt Italy really has that kind of suburbia.

[@alyssarouso]

The rumor that you "can't die at Disney" is mostly due to how available coroners/medical examiners are! If the death was natural/not suspicious, the person is typically taken by ambulance to a hospital and pronounced dead upon arrival. This gives the family some privacy and prevents a scene from forming, and allows Park Operations to resume as soon as possible. If the death is unnatural or suspicious in nature and requires an investigation, the area will be sectioned off and they must wait for a coroner or medical examiner, and for the area to be fully surveyed for evidence, and those result in a "dead at scene". Incidents like these are uncommon by nature, because Disney is a very safe place, but they HAVE happened. Hope this helps. Source: Work at Disney World, have witnessed cardiac events at work, have witnessed police canvassing a suicide crime scene at work, have been to a work seminar dispelling xommon Disney rumors

[@davidmin3583]

I think these manicured public spaces are a response to a lack of control in typical public spaces for the benefit of the majority. The massive amount of security is because public security isn't adequately resourced to make public spaces feel secure and pleasant; The enforcement of common courtesy rules like no loudspeakers is because people don't enjoy public spaces being commandeered by whoever is most aggressive with their own needs. Canary Wharf in London, where I live, is a perfect example of a massively surveiled, sanitised private estate, that feels incredibly safe, clean, orderly, and relaxing. Is it exclusionary? It sounds rather denigrating to say people of colour or poor are somehow incapable of abiding by simple rules like no loudspeakers and no skateboarding.

[@danyosuna7276]

Not to mention that all cities are starting to look the same now. Madrid looks indistinguible from Los Angeles or México City.

[@Rompf123]

I was in vancouver recently and I felt I was walking in a theme park, I even told the people I was with and they could not relate. I enjoyed it for a weekend, but I can't imagine living in it long term unless filthy rich. I can see the gentrification

[@cameron.t]

Which Vancouver? 😂 Kidding. I’ve experienced this in all the major cities I’ve lived in. Denver has had the worst transformation. I truly do NOT feel welcome to just hang out unless I buy something every hour. To a lesser degree, this has happened in Seattle, Portland, San Diego, and LA. The latter has always just been crowded and packed, so it feels the same to me. The clock is ticking once you become a patron. There is no clock if you are not one

[@K1ng1995]

You should've come to Victoria on Vancouver Island. Trust me you'll see old Victoria

[@506363]

Themed restaurants have been dying since the 90s. I think people care much more about quality. the novelty wears quickly if quality isn't there you're probably not going to be a repeat customer.

[@cinnamonnoir2487]

I honestly think we're already past peak theming. It happened at the turn of the millennium. The problem these days is that "authenticity" has become its own kind of self-conscious theming.

[@eagleleft]

I did feel all that when i went to the US and saw these outside "malls". I was like this is just like if you took a wealthy block in a city like montreal and placed it in the middle of a parking lot.

[@eagleleft]

I felt kinda insane

[@ClaytonLivsey]

I also think about stroads and local highways that feel like I could be anywhere. How anyone plays Geoguesser is beyond me.

[@jaykay1899]

Subtleties and nuance

[@JumboDS64]

Perhaps Geoguesser can be seen as a form of defiance against the "everywhere-nowhere" phenomenon, by picking out what's left that IS unique

[@colonelweird]

I watched this after "How Disney Ruined Culture" and I'm amazed at how much these videos have improved since then. That video was fine, but its argument was simple and familiar -- that critique of Disney expresses the understanding I've had about why I've hated Disney my whole life. (Of course that didn't stop a lot of people from hating and misinterpreting the video, predictably.) But this video is more philosophical, more research-heavy, more open-ended, more personal, and is even funnier. It's also scarier, since the critique goes to how the Disney mentality informs so much more of our culture. It might be interesting to see Michael revisit that old video, to probe its claims critically and to find new ways to extend them. Also it would be interesting to see counter-examples to that argument. For example I found myself thinking of the influence of Disney on anime & manga, which often manage to combine "cuteness" with other storytelling elements in fascinating ways that Disney would never do. In any case I'm glad to see Wisecrack growing and changing. And I laughed out loud at Michael "in the brothel zone."

[@miguelvillar2044]

I see this alot in Miami. Authentic Latin and Carribean culture is being replaced by luxury apartments with boutiques and yuppie coffee shops. New Yorker and Californian transplants are moving in which brings more expensive tastes. Meanwhile Miami locals and immigrants are priced out of the city. We’re just going to end up with homogenous cities that sell fantasies to those who can afford it

[@userMB1]

Arguably the most American Wisecrack video to date

[@marknugent9851]

There are no strings on me!

[@KauanFonseca]

Great video Michael. Here, in Rio de Janeiro, I see the Favelas as a counter expression of the theme park logic, the hegemonic logic of the touristic city. Luckily or not, in the global south's cities, this kind of logic is concerned to specific places, and the majority of the dwellers live in very different conditions. The real Rio, for example, isn't where the main attractions are, but the outskirts and the Favelas.

[@Lalaithlen]

We were in Eurodisney with my aunt and cousin in the late 90's. My aunt decided to hide to smoke a joint and was caught. She was detained by the police and we were brought to the hotel. She had to be there for a few hours and was banned the next day to go in. We had to find someone in our same hotel who would accompany my cousin in as we were minors. Me 13 my cousin 10. Now it's a fun anecdote, but at the time it was a hustle.

[@slippy3715]

Dude great video. I’m glad this came up on my home page. Instant sub

[@hamgelato8143]

my guy criticized thanos-the-mouse one second after they just sponsor for one episode, if that's not love i don't know what is

[@kukachoo42]

I think this is part of why Washington DC has become more and more dystopian to me, and I’ve found Baltimore to be more alluring. There’s so many parts of the city (Baltimore) that are clearly not touched by a purposeful effort to appeal to people who only want to be surrounded by commerce and aesthetics and I feel that the increase of these super consumerist, entertainment-living center type spaces in DC have really drained the city of any and all liveliness and soul. this isn’t to say that there exists no gentrification in Baltimore, certainly, but I can think of very few neighborhoods in DC that isn’t either one of these new mega commerce centers, or an outside slum where the original inhabitants of the city remain. it *feels* as though the city more and more is becoming tailor made for transplant capital hill bros

[@covle9180]

I've felt this eerie feeling when being inside these hyper themed and stylized places. Everything was beautiful and great, yet I felt like I wanted to jump out of the window. I couldn't put my finger on it, but now I understand it a bit better. It's this hyperreal simulacrum of style and wealth with 0 of the substance.

[@thabanimiles9824]

This is well underway in London. Just look at Wembley, Battersea Power Station, Greenwich. I live in Wembley now, and this video perfectly put into words exactly why for the last 2 years I've wanted to leave this area. The main strip has lots of places to eat and shop, but it's completely souless. Cameras and security everywhere. and, sooooo many rules

[@jameslongstaff2762]

I don't know, suburban sprawl seems to have a lot more placelessness than a walkable, master planned , and dense urban environment.

[@Mlogan11]

Master planed entire communities are like Stepford wives - looks good but no personality or soul.

[@MahkyVmedia1]

Got kicked out of Six flags for smoking a joint

[@SamuelMulvey]

Think again sunshine!!?? 16:23

[@obliviousbeat7439]

Dude, let's gooo! I will analyze the crap out of disney. I'd have so much fun!

[@lammykll]

Frankenmuth Michigan gives this artificial vibe for sure. As a person who lives within 30 miles of it I like having the escapism, but Frankenmuth is unlike any place within a few hours of it.

[@ivanl.6797]

Before the 2000's, at Knotts Berry Farm, I was removed from the queue at the GhostRider wooden roller coaster. I was removing pennies that were wedged in the wood fences of the queues. I was asked to wait for security, but I walked away. I was 10 or something. Nothing like this video, but, I know I broke an unspoken rule that I still haven't explained yet.

[@shadowguy321]

To me, this is so interesting because I see how this video of hyper-reality can play out. However, I view theme parks like chocolate cake. Sometimes I just really want some, but after eating it I'm like "OK I'm out, bye." I go to a theme park, love the experience, and then part way through I feel my fun meter tap out and I'm ready for home Edit: just finished the video and wtf, America?

[@nicholasfrat7659]

Went on a band trip to KC to visit worlds of fun as like an end of the year thing. A kid shoplifted a little flag from the gift shop and the WOF gestapo pulled his ass off the bus and made his dad drive 3 hours to come get him

[@McDIESEL-N7]

@Michael you need to copyright the "Brothel Zone" and maybe right a book about it or something. Just a suggestion.

[@CoreyGary]

Honestly, I would prefer corporatized curated urban spaces that are well maintained vs. a derelict "character-filled" city. I've been to many of these new urban centers, often paid for by investors, which contain rental-only buildings, an upscale food court, co-working spaces, and a luxury gym. They're impeccably maintained and orderly. There's security, so you feel safe and protected. Major cities aren't doing a good job at protecting its citizens, so when corporations step in they do a decent job (unfortunately at a higher price for its residents).

[@Thedeadcc]

Ive personally never been kicked out of a theme park, but I did see someone get kicked out for being insanely too drunk 😅 drinking and roller coasters are a crazy combo

[@hbeachley]

I was in Disneyworld’s Animal Kingdom pretty soon after it opened. They had a traffic pattern/traffic flow problem in one area and it was literally terrifying. People freaked out and went all “boomer” on the few staff that were there, and each other. 2 physical fights broke out. And all because the path got very clogged up for a few minutes.

[@ManateeOnRye]

I will just say that the Morocco pavilion was made by a team from the country so at least their simulacra environment is slightly more authentic ish.

[@Mickey784cr]

All of the pavilions were built in cooperation with teams from their respective countries. For example, when building Animal Kingdom park, they flew African craftsmen in to authentically roof the huts. Theme parks are art forms.

[@azlizzie]

at 9:15 did that man throw that balloon at that horse on purpose? was he brought up on charges threatening Merida's life like that? terrifying!

[@daveharrison84]

Can we have a middle ground? Cities that are clean and don't have litter, but aren't overpriced and don't expect you to always be spending money.

[@johnmacias488]

Dope video! This one was a lot of fun and very insightful! Thank you guys!

[@ak73372]

Main Street USA is apparently based in a street in Fort Collins, Colorado. I only know that because it was the singular fun fact that I was told when I helped a friend move into their dorm at CSU

[@christianlopez5189]

That’s true, old town Fort Collins. I live in Pueblo, which is about three hours from Fort Collins but me and my wife like to visit it here and there and it is really cool. It is literally the worldly grity version of Main Street USA now. But it’s still has a lot of cool restaurants and arcades but there are bars and weed stores. It pretty much has the same architecture as MainStreet USA. Harper, who is the designer was from there

[@cloudorauron]

I feel like this isn't new. These spaces just feel like company towns.

[@xizar0rg]

To expand a bit on the Seattle throwaway, the area around the Space Needle is almost entirely a giant out-door mall with what now seem to be a few token museums like the soulless Glass museum as well as one of my favorites in the world, the EMP (I think they forced some kind of fruity, soulless name on it.) Outside of the EMP, everything demands coin and offers little in exchange. You can go to the top of the Space Needle for a bit, or you can eat at the grotesquely over-priced restaurant at the top. Or you can spend money at the gift shops or spend money at the other eateries. There are benches to sit on but not for long thanks to hostile architecture. Downtown Seattle is also pretty bad. The farmer's market can be cool (where the fish throwers and Pike Place Market is) but it's also shops everywhere. And more hostile architecture. There just aren't a lot of public spaces anymore. As in spaces where you aren't expected to spend money in exchange for being there.

[@ShaedeReshka]

I love this topic and I think about it all the time. In fact, I live in one of the two towns Main Street USA was originally based on. What's fascinating is how the city declined in the late 80's, was revitalized in the 2000's, and then started the process of gentrification and is now a kind of simulation of what it originally was. It's not as hyperreal as a place like Disney, and it's not all privatized (there are public spaces and even many open natural areas), but it's far more of a theme park than it ever was in the past. Just down the road is a dying mall that's being converted into a lifestyle center (by a developer out of Dallas, where these things are everywhere - I used to live near them). The Dallas lifestyle centers are... fascinating. I loved wandering around them and comparing them to, well, actual places. The one mentioned in the video is also located where a mall died, so this is probably the new shopping mall of the US. It's such a dystopian, yet to be extremely fascinating, phenomenon. While visiting a theme park can be fun, living in one evokes an indescribable existential angst. It's like being denied a real existence and watching yourself fade from reality day by day. I'm sure it's connected to the rise in our culture's more general disconnection from reality, and wonder if societies like this are all succumbing to a kind of mass insanity.

[@LaoziPoet]

@9:45 is that why they've been trying so hard to shut down this lawsuit!?!? Someone died there now and they wanted the story to stay quiet, then it didn't lol

[@robertruffo2134]

No one is building these in cities that have a true local sense of place. What would be "authentic" in Texas? Huge highway sand parking lots? What is "authentic", as an urban space in suburban Des Moines? In other words, this is leagues better than what it replaces, and in healthy cities that already have quality gathering places there is no business model for creating new ones because the demand has already been met.

[@calebwilliamsmusician]

My thoughts exactly.