Homeschooling: Dangerous or Just Weird?

[@WisecrackEDU]

Thanks to Keeps for sponsoring this video & for the free product! Head to keeps.com/wisecrack to get a special offer. Individual results may vary.

[@Governor-General.of.Qanada]

I thought the capital of Saskatchewan was Saskatoon for the longest time since it has saska in its name. Regina doesn't even have an S! Next thing you know Indianapolis won't be the capital of Indiana, it'll be Muncie. 😂 Apologies: youtube disappears comments

[@dwarvenjesus4266]

Nice false framing in the title Wisecrack. Here's one for you: "Wisecrack: Maliciously Ignorant, or lying."

[@WisecrackEDU]

@@dwarvenjesus4266 I mean, it's just a title. the video is 30 min, lots more room for subtlety there.

[@dwarvenjesus4266]

@@WisecrackEDU The title doesn't give any impression that you even consider the possibility that homeschooling isn't bad. Much like my example title, you prescribe a negative conclusion about the subject before viewers even see the context.

[@WisecrackEDU]

@@dwarvenjesus4266 Very early in the video we talk about ways in which homeschooling is cool and the progressive history of homeschooling.

[@mattgormley4738]

As an educator i agree with a lot these point. However, we also are struggling nation wide with a teacher shortage. This creates over crowded classrooms with teachers that some states are just picking up off the street, having little to no teaching experience. I think before we worry about the effects of homeschooling we need to figure out how to fix the schooling crisis we currently have. Then those seeking homeschool options may think twice before doing so.

[@nicolasbarceloni3861]

This I totally agree. If the funding and focus of education was more adequate, we wouldn't be questioning so much if homeschooling could be better

[@fizzygillespie]

The schooling crisis is by design. Ask yourself who benefits, and you'll find the cause.

[@reidwallace4258]

Sadly, the GOP will never let your public school system get fixed at this point. The entire globe just watched as 30 years of underfunded educated and lead leakage in pipes got them your supreme court and the least qualified muppet in world history into the oval office... It worked out just as they hoped it would, they finally have a population dumb enough to fall for their lies, and they wont let that change any time soon. Move, Canada needs teachers, so does the UK, austrailia, and plenty of non-english speaking places with hope left in their futures.

[@comrade952]

This makes me so much more appreciative of having had the privilege of going to a well funded public school. One of my best friends’s cousins was homeschooled and worked in the service industry after leaving home for a few years, she wanted to go to college so she signed up for a GED course; apparently, she was floored by how completely unprepared she was and had a huge argument with her parents afterwords.

[@idontwantahandlethough]

that makes me so sad. Her parents failed her :/

[@Theroha]

This is why I'm against homeschooling on principle. I've had to teach full grown adults elementary school math, science, and history whose parents homeschooled to hide the signs of abuse

[@raymondcasso7966]

​@@Therohaand I've had the poor honor to teach a College Bio professor the difference between the holocene and pliestocene... that eventually led to young earth creationism vs The Chronostatigraphy supported by the Fossil Record.

[@BB-pn2qv]

Homeschooled, due to the fact the school in my spot was such a dangerous unfunded mess, I was better off at home. I wish it would have been better, but it wasn’t, so in glad. Gave freedom of education and a chance to thrive, while lonely, in a very awful school district. Currently working on my PhD. It worked for me, but it’s really a whole big category not a simple one-solution sort of thing. More nuanced than people believe.

[@Start4am]

When I was around 8 years old my parents coworker had a son who was homeschooled. They lived in a very rural part of town and there was no other kids around. The homeschooled kid's parents asked my parents if they could have their birthday at my house and asked me to invite my friends over so there would be people there. Keep in mind I didn't know this kid at all. It was pretty weird having to explain to my friends they had to come to my house for someone else's birthday party. The whole thing ended up being kinda awkward but I tried my best to make the kid feel welcome in my friend group.

[@idontwantahandlethough]

you're a good egg :)

[@idontwantahandlethough]

I went to private Catholic School for the first 16 years of my life. Then I got fed up and went to public school. It was genuinely the best decision I've ever made. I met so many people who were different from me and it opened me up to new ideas and ways of thinking! I seriously don't know what I'd be like if I hadn't decided to change schools. Sometimes I see my old private school friends and it doesn't seem like they've really grown in the same way I have.. as if they still think the exact same way they did back in high school (because they never left their bubble). It's kinda sad :/

[@matthewkornder5586]

So you did 2 years of public highschool? I bet public school was a breeze.

[@bartman64]

If the early pandemic taught me anything, public school isn’t perfect, but I definitely couldn’t do the job with two kids let alone 20

[@xSoccerFreak7]

Adding another reply to the comment section

[@peterhou4359]

DITTO AND YES THIS HAS TO BE IN CAPS

[@TheOneNotTheOnly]

23:35 education free of ideology? Reminds me of one of my favorite sayings. “It’s not propaganda if you agree with it.”

[@16driver16]

Kids learn that from their peers at school not the teachers

[@tredegar4163]

@@16driver16children educating children seems to be worse to me

[@16driver16]

@Mike-wr7om yes, and we want them to learn the CORRECT world view... the one where the you can do math based on it and get useful answers... everything else is WRONG

[@16driver16]

@@tredegar4163 so you have a problem with ALL HISTORY??? ESPECIALLY THE BIBLE???

[@16driver16]

@tredegar4163 if children can't teach children why has peer tutoring always been a thing?

[@damianarvizu1095]

As a retired public school teacher, I encountered a few individuals who were home schooled. I found them to be (on the whole) under prepared for grade level expectations and socially awkward. Dare I say that the majority of homeschooling was detrimental to their children. The worst example was a child who was clearly abused and was made a ward of the state. They were in constant fear of being kidnapped and transported back to their original home. While I did not teach them, I did teach their sibling who would routinely need to be pulled from my class to coax the traumatized back into their designated classroom. Meanwhile we teachers were constantly being updated to look for a specific abusive parent. An individual who somehow was never apprehended while the children were bouncing around the community in an attempt to hide from their abusers.

[@MrZiggens3]

Thank for putting this out there. I have a friend who’s mentally ill mother used homeschooling as a way to avoid CPS, and denied him an education and normal childhood.

[@barrocaspaula]

I'm a teacher too, although in a different country. I agree with you. Schools are important for more than the academic curriculum.

[@chrisbrooks3388]

Both weird and dangerous. As a highly-conflicted public school teacher, I find that students who have been (non-religiously) home-schooled are much more curious and competent than public school lifers who have learned to see education as mere transaction. Not to worry, however; after our visionary governor rams through his voucher program next year (over the protests of rural conservatives!), the education debate will finally end--decided by the magic of the free market.

[@aangitano]

This is a good analysis, thanks for sharing

[@WisecrackEDU]

So very sorry you have to deal with that and thanks a ton for sharing. Can't overstate how much we love teachers.

[@chrisx1138]

I was a professional tutor for a long time. A large number of my students were home scheduled. The main reasons were religious or to accommodate sports (teens who are on the international or international competition level). They were all ridiculously far behind. Honestly, I think if done right, homeschooling is best. Public schools teach to the mean. They tamp down curiosity and abilities for areas the students are great at and creating struggle and failure in weaker areas. When I was able to focus on how the students learn and working with explorative learning, students made leaps and bounds. However, it requires a parent with the expertise, intelligence, time, focus, and ability. I have never seen a homeschool environment with all of the above from the parents. The only way I see it working is with a full time, dedicated, professional tutor.

[@TulilaSalome]

@@chrisx1138 - and if you have a full time tutor, or tutors, isnt it just a small private school then?

[@robinsimmert7790]

​@@chrisx1138 Public schools have the ability to provide a much more thorough education on a diverse subject area. I've met so many home schooled kids who don't know half of the things I do from taking honors courses in public school.

[@YawaruSan]

Counterpoint: Ageism is correct, you can be too young to drive and too old to be president. All sane people agree to this.

[@Governor-General.of.Qanada]

Riddle me this: which segment of the population are discriminated against and refused the right to vote despite being citizens? They make up 22% of the population. , , , , , , Children. * apologies. KZbin is disappearing my comments

[@Governor-General.of.Qanada]

Riddle me this: which segment of the population are discriminated against and refused the right to vote despite being citizens? They make up 22% of the population. , , , , , , Children. * apologies. KZbin is disappearing my comments

[@Governor-General.of.Qanada]

Riddle me this: which segment of the population are discriminated against and refused the right to vote despite being citizens? They make up 22% of the population. , , , , , , Children. * apologies. KZbin is disappearing my comments

[@Governor-General.of.Qanada]

Riddle me this: which segment of the population are discriminated against and refused the right to vote despite being citizens? They make up 22% of the population. , , , , , , Children. * apologies. KZbin is disappearing my comments

[@idontwantahandlethough]

yeah but like... if you can pass the test, than clearly you're good to go in at least _some_ regard.. ya know? That goes for the old and the young. edit: my comment assumes that the driving exam is sufficiently difficult... which it absolutely is not. So I'm probably wrong lol

[@beccangavin]

I homeschooled my child for middle school. His racist first grade teacher had labeled him a trouble maker along with the rest of the not-white children in her class and the label followed him through all his elementary school years. The meetings were so weird. He wasn’t disruptive in class and did his school work but they thought what he needed was medication for ADD because he read books secretly during class. When I did that (as white girl) they thought I should be in the GATE program. Anyway, I sent him back to public school in High School and his teachers loved him. I took his education seriously and participated actively so he remained well above proficiency for his grade and took honors and AP classes when he went to high school. We did not homeschool for religious reasons. My sister, on the other hand, was also homeschooled. And her curriculum was religious based. She ended up with holes that she to this day does not recognize.

[@LonkinPork]

With the present state of public education - primarily due to heavy defunding and underfunding - I get the general appeal of homeschooling. That being said, nearly every parent pushing for homeschooling right now, happens to be the kind of person that should not be trusted to care for a child. I have a cousin that was homeschooled and didn't officially finish high school until she was 20.

[@MrGert150]

Making huge assumptions and generalizations of your fellow Americans is why I would homeschool. I don’t want my kids to lack critical thinking.

[@13Blu]

@@MrGert150 sure

[@ergonaga4949]

Have you taken a look at the reading and math levels of kids in public school these days? It's pretty clear that the opponents of homeschooling aren't terrified of kids getting a bad education in reading, math and science(or they'd be just as terrified about public schools), they're terrified they aren't being properly indoctrinated with the social values that government deems important now.

[@handeggchan1057]

​@MrGert150 it's simply pattern recognition

[@idontwantahandlethough]

@@MrGert150 that's kinda the thing though: a huge facet of "critical thinking" is being able to look at things from multiple perspectives, but that's really hard to do if you've never been exposed to alternate perspectives. A [well funded] public school can really help in that regard.

[@NeedSomeNuance]

I was homeschooled (K-12th). In theory, I would say the concept is fine and can be done right, but in its current state it NEEDS more government oversight. A small percentage turn out normal which is cool, but the majority either turn out either committed to some cult, woefully underprepared for the real world, lacking basic social understanding, or all of the above. Theoretically it’s fine, but the way it’s done now I am NOT cool with

[@LiveNKicking]

I have seen more academic rigor in my homeschool community than the public school here. Always amazed at how much more ahead they were than their public school peers.

[@Eltener123]

The problem with homeschooling is that most people are too stupid to actually teach most of the content

[@Governor-General.of.Qanada]

I wish home-colleging was an option too.

[@Governor-General.of.Qanada]

I wish home-colleging was an option too

[@Eltener123]

​@@Governor-General.of.Qanada yeah because the average braindead moron with a business degree is capable of teaching their child anything to even undergrad level

[@Starcrash6984]

​@@Governor-General.of.Qanada If most parents are too stupid to give their kids an elementary and high school education, this is only more true for "home-colleging" them.

[@beansnrice321]

That and what kind of idiot does not want help for such an important task as educating your children. Any parent who thinks they alone are enough are depriving their children of so much. Parents need to do two thing, provide a good home and connection to a good community. Otherwise parents really need to get out of their kids way.

[@Dachusblot]

I was homeschooled for 3 years (2nd, 3rd & 4th grade) because of my parents' conservative religious ideology, and I swear just those three years set me back in my social skills so badly that I'm still feeling the effects to this day (I'm in my 30s now). I don't know how kids who were homeschooled their whole lives even function at all in social situations. To me the concept of homeschooling isn't inherently bad, but there do need to be strict standards to make sure kids are not being abused, that they're learning what they need and are getting a certain level of healthy human interaction with their peers, particularly during their young formative years. Unfortunately for a lot of homeschooling parents, those requirements would be dealbreakers. Luckily at least my mom was a good teacher, so I never fell behind academically. Not every homeschool kid is that fortunate.

[@christiandauz3742]

Child abuse is rampant in 'homeschooling'

[@CalebFrederickDesign]

I was homeschooled against my own will and enrolled myself into school in the 8th grade. I remember the principal telling me how unusual it was for a kid to turn up on their own to enroll. My parents wanted to raise me and my sister to their world view. They knew I was immensely behind, I didn't. Once I got into school it was abundantly clear to my teachers how far behind I was. I worked my ass off for C's and in math, I was immediately sent to a remedial class because it turns out my Mom had taught me the fundamentals of math wrong and had been calling incorrect work, as correct for many years. I'd never once had a single science class or lesson. When I graduated the 8th grade I was shocked to find out I had earned one of the school's highest honors, hardest working student. (Reminder: I was a C student) To many graduating from highschool doesn't mean much. But me, I had to fight to get into school. I carry my highschool ID card proudly at almost 33 years old. Homeschooling is dangerous.

[@wilddog73]

I think you have it a little backwards. I think making public school voluntary instead of compulsory would have actually made it even more valuable to kids that were in your situation, with a similar drive to seek out an alternative. There are also a lot of kids in public education who are denied options like homeschooling/unschooling due to their home situations or other reasons, and they end up being dragged and humiliated through their public education/special ed programs with issues like bullying and learning difficulties. You would deny them the same freedom to recognize the inadequacies of their learning environment and pursue alternatives as you did?

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

@@wilddog73 If they need additional accommodations and are ashamed by them, then obviously the reaction wouldn't be to seek more, it'd be to reject them altogether. You've got it entirely backward. It's not denying them options, it's that those options are actively harmful in the first place.

[@wilddog73]

@@dontmisunderstand6041 Rejecting accommodations from one source is still seeking them from another.

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

@@wilddog73 No? No it's not. Rejecting accommodations because they exist doesn't magically make you accept other ones.

[@wilddog73]

​@@dontmisunderstand6041 The comment we're replying under is literally from a guy that didn't like the "accomodations" of homeschooling because the curriculum was crap in the first place. He didn't stop looking for something that works for him, he found it in another place entirely.

[@VBplays01]

As much as I hated school, it's essential for learning how to be around other people, you won't learn that from home.

[@SirThinkALot42]

They wont learn that from public school either. All they will learn is that they will be bullied and ostracized for being awkward, quiet or having any kind of niche interest(I speak from personal experience)

[@VBplays01]

@@SirThinkALot42 you're missing the point, your example only happens if they 'are' home schooled first, not everyone in school gets bullied and I'm sorry to hear you were. Attending school IS a vital part of your life because you learn what you can and can't do around other people/in public, again that's something you can't truly learn without experiencing it, the likelyhood of being an antisocial outcast that can't function in society goes up 10 fold when you're homeschooled. Look it up.

[@SirThinkALot42]

@@VBplays01 Nope. I was NEVER homeschooled and thats exactly what my schooling experience was like. I was a quiet kid who was more into reading and video games than sports(this was the '90s before 'nerds are cool' was a thing). And as a result I never really interacted with the other kids at school(except for bullying). And because I never had any interaction with my peers, I never developed social skills, which just meant further ostrization. I didnt really break out of that cycle till college, and even now I'm still overly quiet and socially anxious. naturally extroverted kids who have popular interests dont get that treatment. But those are exactly the kids we dont need to worry about. And sure, maybe homeschooling would have retarded my social development in its own ways. But for me at least its hard to see how it would have been worse.

[@VBplays01]

@@SirThinkALot42 I didn't say you were home schooled bud, regardless, you've proved my point by sharing your experience of college with me ✌ like I said I'm sorry your school experience was bad but it's subjective.

[@MisterCynic18]

That might actually be the problem. I am reminded of how wolves that grow up in captivity become more heirarchal and aggressive, forming pack structures that are entirely unlike their wild counterparts. I suspect public schooling might be having the same effect on people in many instances. The kids learn only how to fit into the unnatural social hierarchy of the school environment, and since that becomes all they know they drag that psychology into adulthood, creating entirely dysfunctional organizations where everyone has the self awareness of a highschool student trying to fit into artificial cliques.

[@daffyf6829]

I was homeschooled from 5th grade to high school graduation. We used an ultra conservative Catholic correspondence curriculum, meaning we got our books and lesson plans and mailed our tests and reports to be graded by a nun in Virginia. My mom participated as little as possible, expecting me and my siblings to self motivate. I just today purchased a book titled "emotionally immature parents: a recovery workbook for adult children." So in my case, I'd say homeschooling was a disservice. Regardless, I think there is a place for it. My niece was being severely bullied and I think my sister made the right call to homeschool her for a year or two. As for parents who think they can control their children's thoughts... They're idiots. I'm not an ultra conservative Catholic. My mom had six kids, and only one of them is an ultra conservative Catholic... The oldest one that wasn't homeschooled! And, funny story, my parents were products of the education system, and they weren't indoctrinated into the liberal, homosexual, non-racist agenda they're so afraid of. That's not how people work.

[@iitsRandy]

I’m proud to get none of them right haha

[@ShaedeReshka]

I homeschooled my kid for 2 years when the pandemic hit, for his 1st and 2nd grade. Now, being an ex-academic philosopher and an anarchist, I definitely utilized aspects of unschooling and deschooling in order to create an educational atmosphere that didn't feel like any education was happening. I tried to make use of homeschooling resources, but found myself really frustrated by that because so much of it was Christian fundamentalist or equally troubling secular materials. So, while I used a little as a resource for teaching a level of education that wasn't... college level... I found myself struggling to create much of it from scratch. My kid has been in public school for the past couple of years now, where he is in the 99% percentile, so I don't have any anxiety over my success in fostering a love of learning. What I ended up concerned about was the extreme threat of indoctrination and isolation for children within the homeschool industry. Honestly, while I feel like there is revolutionary potential in homeschooling, also contains the equal threat of fostering the false revolution of fascism. There is also the potential for being socially isolated and struggling in that area of development. That's hard for me to judge, of course, as this was during the pandemic and we were all isolated. I would like to be an advocate for homeschooling, in a sense, but honestly I'm more of an advocate for education reform. Homeschooling is really just filling in the holes left behind by our crumbling and always ineffective education system. If we could bring some of the ideas from Illich and Holt into a community based publicly funded system for everyone, that would be the most ideal. I was lucky due to my background and education. It would be unreasonable to expect that from every parent.

[@WisecrackEDU]

Thanks for sharing all this - really appreciate it.

[@wmdkitty]

Abuser.

[@Captrubarb]

So I was public, private, but mostly homeschooled... my boring talking point is there's always pros/cons depending on the fam or school you have. Now slightly spicier point is I was of the evangelical conservative variety, and well, it's a lot to unpack, because the whole evangelical movement is a lot to unpack. First - I have grown increasingly critical of the isolationist tendencies of Evangelicalism writ large... and for it's own health too, as I believe a healthy Christianity is not fear based and not afraid to be with and learn to communicate and value those you claim you want to save (maybe that's why as an Evangelical I watch a lot of wisecrack now ;P ). Second - it's important to understand there's a lot of variety within the Evangelical conservative homeschool movement. Not everyone is a Christian nationalist fundimentalist type influenced by the authors mentioned (though I do see their influence in the movement and the rotton fruit more in retrospect since MAGA). Not everyone was as socially awkward as me (my best friends were homeschooled and hyper social extroverts who got invited to the local school dances). There is a lot of collective action you can do through homeschool groups and conferences/networks (which could be good or bad depending on your views, but just to counter the point about what good can you and your bro do, etc...). My mom did ok (she also had a special ed license) until highschool when the subjects became a little too much to teach well (and I switched to college credit in highschool program in MN with no hicups), but she also taught me a lot of critical thinking and pro-empathy values, and now has become an MSNBC watching anti-Trump democratic voting conservative Evangelical. I don't know if space time will hold together after that sentence. So like you said, there's just a lot of variety to judge, even with us homeschooled Evangelicals. And I'm torn, because a part of me still really wants people to see the good warm fuzzies of a different side of homeschooling and/or Evangelicalism, of some of the awesome people that I grew up with that encouraged intellectualism and that put in action the love and kindness they preached. But if Jesus taught me anything, it's that critiquing one's own religious tribe is actually something we should be doing. I think with homeschooling, there should be some compromise to make it a little more regulated without squashing it outright. I live in Poland now and a friend runs a homeschool group and they seem to have more required in person testing at their facility with authorized test givers, something I never had. As with Evangelicalism, it's something I'm still trying to process what's gone wrong with (could be a whole other video), both on a macro and micro scale (as a pastor's kid who's dad literally and figuratively became a Florida man). But the way I see it there are really three very very very different factions within Evangelicalism now and historically... and the Veggie Tales guy does an amazing job breaking it down: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hJrMg6GFbLqHis0si=b2HtX9JbGGCnbeDR

[@dreamingbutterfly1]

Former homeschooled and (former) Evangelical as well. I always feel conflicted when people ask about homeschooling, because I did great academically and that didn't seem to be a problem for many people in my homeschool community (or at least, not more than also exists in public school). Then again, people who wanted to go into any biological or earth sciences would have to catch up on their total lack of understanding about evolution and geology. I guess my big problem with it is that so much of the homeschooling culture that I was raised in is open indoctrination, and I think that's bad. Homeschool curricula are everything the Daily Wire whines about public schools being, just in a conservative direction. I would agree with your criticism of the isolation of Evangelical homeschooling. I don't think it's good for the people and kids in the homeschool communities or for society as a whole.

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

I'm not religious, but I have a certain loathing for sects of Christianity specifically because I've read the Bible and really liked most of the ideas that Jesus guy was talking about. It upsets me how effectively all of mainstream Christianty serves to spite Jesus' teachings. He talks about how prayer is a thing you do only when nobody else knows you're doing it, how worship done where others know you're doing it is done in vain. He talks about how YOU are the one who should best decide what right and wrong is for yourself, he talks about how trying to convert someone to your religion will ensure both you AND them go to hell. Gah. It just annoys me. Jesus is really cool, and yet Christians suck so much.

[@jacobmonks3722]

I enjoyed reading your comment. I was raised Catholic and went to a Catholic school from K-8, and then to public school from then on. I am still very Catholic, and I think being more exposed to the world as an adult actually reinforced Catholic teachings to me. It just makes a lot of sense, and I fear that Catholics and all Christian groups are written off as hyper reactionary, insular nutjobs who want thought control and strict religious laws. But that's not what Jesus taught, nor what the church teaches if anyone bothers to actually look into it. Catholics emphasize a deep and personal relationship with God, to pray to him in the silence and isolation of your own home, and never to boast about your good deeds. The church exists as a guide to help you understand Scripture and deepen your faith through traditional practices, not a political organization that controls or influences governments, nor a tool to enforce a specific reading of every verse in the Bible. And what I think is one of the most fascinating aspects of Catholic teaching is the idea of "primacy of conscious," where if you are unsure about how a Catholic should act or believe about a specific topic, as long as you follow your conscience in good faith, you are doing what you should. Thought control is actively against what the Catholic Church teaches. Sorry for the rant. I just wanted to try and dispel some stereotypes about Christianity with regard to how we operate and act in society. I know homeschooling is iffy because of how many people were damaged by it, but it's not the religion that causes those problems. It's the people. Extremists will be extremists regardless of what religion or ideology they follow because they are fundamentally incapable of critical thinking or questioning themselves. Godspeed.

[@lisbiology]

In Germany homeschooling is pretty much illegal aside from very special circumstances (less than 500 children in the entire country and they have strict standards to adhere to)... so it is definitely weird from this side of the pond. Like there is nothing to stop parents from teaching their core values and what not over here... the kids just also have to go to school, get to spend time in a space with others and ultimately make their own minds up. As teacher it has been challenging helping homeschooled kids integrate socially with their peers when/if they do eventually attend school; also depending on the quality of the home, they can be both ahead and/or behind (at the same time) on core learning skills and knowledge. I know some adults who were fully home schooled and they turned out fine even if they did get a bit a shock/ or wild adjustment period when they go to university or enter the workforce. i guess it is only dangerous if the parents do a bad job of preparing their child for the world out there.

[@Grayscale1991]

wtf!!! Why would I want a stranger to install their values in my kids?? That’s weird to me 😅

[@CommissionerC]

@@Grayscale1991 Are all of your values a 1:1 copy of your parents or did some of them come from experiences you've made with other people yourself?

[@JohnSmith-gz7wm]

Last year at a music festival I was chatting with someone and asked them for tips on how to make conversation with strangers, and without skipping a beat they asked me if I was homeschooled. (I was). Apparently the social isolation often associated with homeschooling is common enough that it can often and easily be noticed by someone familiar with it like this person was. I agree that whether homeschooling is good or bad wholly depends on the unique circumstances of how it happens and that there are a lot of variables, but I think there are some really tough obstacles to overcome (like proper socialization) that most homeschoolers aren't able to overcome. It seems to commonly lead to a lot of challenges in my anecdotal experience.

[@wilddog73]

I think this is the main challenge with it. If there were neighborhoods where many families homeschooled, would it be such an issue?

[@kicsms_science3729]

@@wilddog73I’ve known families who homeschool as part of a co-op, so they still get to control what their kids learn while giving them plenty of social opportunities.

[@Driftking305forlife]

The old proverb of to forget history is to repeat it, just keeps on giving.

[@isaacmullins3366]

People take public education so fogranted, they forget what it was like before it.

[@thatotherguy4245]

The beauty of homeschooling is the free money combined with a complete lack of oversight. Absolutely no way that could go wrong.

[@Mike-wr7om]

The question at the heart of this discussion is, "Are we going to give up on the res publica (the public thing), the very idea of having a shared society? Are we going to break into little tribes, or even smaller family units, and completely give up on the idea of together constituting a nation state?" On the whole, in education and many other areas as well, over the past decade or so, we seem to have given up on the idea of together constituting a whole society (be it ever so varied and diverse) and nation state. To me, this is a troubling trend.

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

Divide and conquer. Cultural shifts are typically not random, they're either intentional propaganda or a reaction of new generations to the basic observable reality their forebears created. Given that isolationary trends are definitely not the generational thing, that leaves only the other option.

[@Mike-wr7om]

@@dontmisunderstand6041 In his book Bowling Alone (published in the year 2000), Robert Putnam traces a trend of civic and social disengagement that happened over the latter half of the 20th century. That trend has continued unabated (perhaps even accelerated) in the years since Putnam published his book. The causes for this breakdown in social and civic engagement Putnam chiefly identifies as the privatization of entertainment (television, and now the Internet), the loss of a common cause (like WWII) to unite US citizens, and the move to suburbs that prize an individualistic style of life over a communal one.

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

@@Mike-wr7om Yeah... handing the most powerful propaganda machines in the history of the world to the people most incentivized to utilize it for personal gain and also isolating people from supporting networks and meaningful uniting purpose. Always feels nice when unknown experts corroborate intuitive observations.

[@edtr8434]

Regarding this point. “Biologically speaking, man is a moderately gregarious, not a completely social animal - a creature more like a wolf, let us say, or an elephant, than like a bee or an ant. In their original form human societies bore no resemblance to the hive or the ant heap; they were merely packs. Civilization is, among other things, the process by which primitive packs are transformed into an analogue, crude and mechanical, of the social insects’ organic communities. At the present time the pressures of overpopulation and technological changes are accelerating this process.” -Aldous Huxely

[@alfalpha3454]

I was home schooled, I was never part of any youth group and to this day remain socially maladjusted. Neither of my parents were academically equipped to teach me, which left me with huge holes in my education which I had to fill myself later in life. Certainly from my experience of home schooling I would consider it a form of child abuse. I wonder how common my experience is…

[@erichanson1291]

You were supposed to show raw dome while saying raw dome

[@katattack907]

Not everyone pulls off raw dome super well but Michael does!

[@ryanbrink4390]

More quotes by Marvin Gaye please EDIT: and THANK YOU for bringing up the harm of books by James Dobson such as "Dare to Discipline", there could be a full series done on Dobson and his influence over the Christian Right since the '80s

[@hadara69]

YES! I'd like to see that too! There's a whole realm of GROSS Christian fundie nutjob machinations that aren't discussed or explored enough publically. That needs to change now in the wake of Trump's infamous "Project 2025". LET'S LOOK UNDER THE HOOD HERE, shall we??! 🧐🧐🧐🧐 C'mon, Wisecrack. Don't fear the fundies! They ain't watchin' anyway...

[@Akentrophyta]

knew them all, but I went to public school in the late 60s so kinda had an unfair advantage...

[@idontwantahandlethough]

they really drilled those into ya back then, didn't they? My mom is the same way... she can just rattle them off in like 60 seconds lol

[@Viestadisaster]

As a teacher, I tell my family to never send their children to public school. Public schools are underfunded, understaffed, and students just can't get the proper education and care they need. We have to teach to the lowest common denominator, and the school system just wants us to lower and lower standards. Kids I know who were homeschooled are leaps and bounds ahead of their public school peers both in terms of education and maturity.

[@emmalouge123]

I was homeschooled my entire childhood and I will say I didn't really fit in to any mainstream stereotypes around homeschooling. I actually enjoyed myself, had a lot of freedom, had friends, and did a lot of extra curricular activities which helped with socialization. It's unfortunate so many crappy parents use it to indoctrinate their kids into extremist ideology. Me and my other homeschooled friends maybe got lucky because our parents were more like hippies and well, we all grew up in Canada 😅 that might effect some stuff

[@hagermannre3]

Some parents are great teachers, many couldn't teach a fish to swim or a rock to stay put. I know some who shouldn't be left to teach a dog to fetch...and these are the people that often think they are brilliant teachers for their kids. I feel for those kids.

[@Stoiccc1]

The problem with homeschooling is that the exponential failure of public schools inspires homeschooling. Annually lowering the bar to prevent failure in schools has created a system that's failing all. High-school diplomas do not guarantee literacy or basic math skills. I teach college classes, and many of these hs graduates are not ready for secondary education at all. Worst, they don't know how uneducated they are, though they know they can't read or do basic math. Primary educators are underpaid and have little authority in classes full of increasingly feral kids. Idiocracy is manifesting, and homeschooling is an affordable antidote for a growing demographic.

[@wilddog73]

Not to mention the advertisement of AI as a viable and free alternative to tutoring. An entire branch of work for retired teachers and professors erased. kzbin.info/www/bejne/lZ-2np6vebOoos0

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

Calling homeschooling affordable is a bit silly. Most people can't afford the financial cost of having their kids around the house for an extra 8-10 hours per day, 5 days a week for 9 months of the year. And that's without factoring the kids who are too young to be trusted by themselves, or the fact that some students need someone to help them in order to learn. Yes, a responsible pre-teen or teen who happens to be one of the students who literally doesn't need a teacher to excel will be fine with homeschooling. Literally any other kid needs enough support to make it financially non-viable for most parents. How many parents do you know who can hire a full time employee just to teach their child? Even at minimum wage, which definitely wouldn't be the price point, that's something like $11,000 per year. Sure, the households that are well off enough to have a non-contributing member of the household in the first place can skimp out on those costs, but the general way modern American life works is that everyone in the household has a full time job, sometimes more than one, and it's still difficult to make ends meet sometimes.

[@wilddog73]

@@dontmisunderstand6041 Maybe a stay at home spouse could pull it off if we ever fix the economy.

[@Stoiccc1]

@dontmisunderstand6041 not for all agreed, but if you can do it right, which more people are according to the college graduation rates of homeschooled students, the advantages are dramatic. I'm not sure if you intend to educate me, but i not only understand what you shared, but I'm living it. By my account, you're correct on most. Also, we're doing it for 1100 a year, fully accredited in all 50, and my spouse and I work alternate schedules. It's not easy, but it's lightyears better than public daycare or prison prep.

[@reidwallace4258]

@@wilddog73 If we fixed the economy we could afford to fund the fuckin schools bud.

[@corgi42069]

What's wrong with homeschooling is the lack of standards and enforcement

[@nzuckman]

There are standards already, at least in some places. I was homeschooled in Maryland and my performance was evaluated by the state every year to determine if I could move on to the next grade.

[@lucydonohue4919]

Yea it differs way to heavly state to state. I have a friend who straight up was not educated from 2nd to 5th grade because of it.

[@JennieGarciaN]

@@nzuckmanthat’s the bad thing about leaving it to the states. While one might have the same standards as children who go to school, other states barely pay attention to what their homeschooled children perform or their well being. The lack of oversight can leave lots of children vulnerable to abuse.

[@corgi42069]

@@nzuckman "in some places" that's kinda the point. There needs to be more, higher, sweeping standards

[@kekistani_meme_farmer7242]

Weird The problem with public schools are the over standardization and enforcement.

[@hannahmoultrie6637]

I was homeschooled and I am now ardently against it. It is far too easily abused and many times leaves children to be used as indentured servants to their parents.

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

Children already function as indentured servants to their parents in normal circumstances, but homeschooling increases the control parents have over their child, and can extend that control further in a capitalist society where job requirements and employer expectations keep rising. It's effectively a way to guarantee an abused child becomes an abused adult with no way to escape.

[@Grayscale1991]

Public school teachers abuse children to sooo

[@GuyPerson-jt9tv]

I grew up in a small, very Christian community, so when I went to high school, I was all of a sudden around a lot of people who didn't think the same way as me. I remember being around queer or atheist students and feeling uncomfortable, but I ended up realizing I could coexist with people who were different from me. I've spoken to many Christian parents who homeschool their kids, and it seems like they don't want to let their kids have that experience. I wonder how homeschooled kids feel when they grow up and have to interact with a diversity of opinions for the first time in their lives.

[@taipolar333]

Shoutout to Michael's raw dome

[@revoncorvidae7826]

As a former homeschooler myself, there should either be heavy regulations not only on academic ability but socialization for kids, as well as IMPROVEMENTS TO OUR SCHOOL SYSTEM. PLEASE. As it is homeschool is 90% enabling of abuse, neglectful, and terribly isolating. Help your kids through school, you cannot replace an entire school faculty.

[@vanessamaldonado5877]

Schools are not only places of learning, they prepare you for the world, do you want to constantly be competing against and antagonizing your fellow students whom you have no choice but to see every day of the week for up to 8 hours? or find a way to have a peaceful coexistance to find a path forward? Because whether we like it or not, we live in a society, we live in a world with finite resources, so we must learn to coexist, thats how school prepares you for life, not only the knowledge that you need to find a job, but the social skills necessary to live in harmony in a society.

[@Governor-General.of.Qanada]

Couldn't regular play with kids, interacting with adults in the library, museum, zoos, community centres substitute for school for social? Apologies, youtube is disappearing my comments

[@vanessamaldonado5877]

@@Governor-General.of.Qanada Not to the same degree or amount of time, rememeber we all have to work and 8hrs is the minimum, so prolonged interactions with people are bound to be different than short interactions like the ones you mention.

[@JennieGarciaN]

@@Governor-General.of.Qanadahaving a quick casual conversation with random people is not a substitute for socializing in school. Not even close! At school, they learn to work and communicate with people that don’t look or think like them, like we do in the real world once we are adults. Lots of homeschooling families join co-ops, but if those people look and think like you (like at church) that defeats the purpose. Sports teams can be a good way to socialize. Getting to know someone from a marginalized group can foster empathy and give them a wider world view.

[@paksta]

The more you think about it, this whole line of thought sounds so dystopian. The idea that a terrific part of school's value is that we're forcing kids to be in a room for 8 hours straight with 25 other kids, for years, because this is itself a great way to prepare them for society because, well, they'll have to do it anyway for 45+ more years as a working adult, just seems like the worst possible condemnation of where we're at. Also, I'm not convinced adults themselves are that great at making it work when they are put together in close proximity for years on end, with no say or control of their own in the matter. And I'm not sure that the answer would be that we must do it more to them as children. Maybe we're missing something here. Maybe school and children's lives in general can be more flexible and under their control. Maybe there are elements of home-schooling (when done exceptionally well) that schools could learn from. Or maybe more oversight and links with schools could be brought into home-schooling.

[@vanessamaldonado5877]

@@paksta I mean if you are going to analyze the whole entire thing, then capitalism is the problem, you need schools to tuck away children for the amount of time parents are working, and both parents are working because the economy is so screwed you cant survive otherwise, so unless we solve the fundamental problem of the capitalist exploitation any solution within the current system is bound to be flawed.

[@khemanig2]

the supreme court bit was *chef's kiss*

[@KynaTiona]

I was super validated when I described my home school experience to my therapist and she immediately called it a cult without me needing to ask if she agreed. Which I think says just about everything I need to say about why I did not enjoy home school and wish it were illegal.

[@colonelweird]

Seeing John Holt interviewed on the Phil Donahue show in the late 70s, when I was a public school kid with undiagnosed ADHD & social anxiety, changed my life. I was deeply miserable in general - my home life was pretty bad - and was often unable to make myself go to school. That's why I was home alone watching Donahue that day. Holt awakened something in me, so I started reading his books, then searched out other educational radicals - Herb Kohl, Jonathan Kozol, Neil Postman, A.S. Neill, Paul Goodman, and others. They opened the world of anarchism to me, and radicalism in general. So imagine my shock when I discovered only a few years later that homeschooling had become a signature issue for the fundy authoritarians ... and Holt was weirdly ok with them. It kind of makes me wish I had discovered Paulo Freire first, and learned to be a teen communist.

[@joedrurr7316]

funny thing about homeschooling (at least for me) U.S. cities/capitals were not heavily emphasized. Dispite living next to Georgia, I'm 0-4.

[@idontwantahandlethough]

I mean honestly, they're not important. At all. Personally I'm glad we spent our time learning more important information... memorizing dates/places/names should never be the main focus imo

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

Despite. I'd make the obvious joke, but feel as though that's unhelpful.

[@nothanniballecktor9633]

As a homeschooler, I had to rely on my church as my primary means of socialization. I had a few other homeschooled friends and I knew my neighbors before I moved out in the middle of nowhere. Dating relied on my dating a neighbor’s friend from their school, and due to my not having a car I didn’t have many chances to actually spend time with my girlfriend or anything like that. I had to walk a lot of places, even when I lived five miles out of town. I’m currently working on a series of essays regarding homeschool recovery because I think that I’m one of the better equipped homeschoolers to help others adjust to real life after having a portion of one’s life stolen in this way.

[@juliahooper554]

as someone who has been forced to be homeschooled since 4th grade the only way you can be a successful homeschooler in regards to academics is if your parents have a lot of money so they can buy you curriculums and tutoring for 500 $ or if you do online school which most homeschooling or unschooling parents don't like because it has structure and accountability and "they're on a screen all day" most homeschooling and unschooling families I know spend 1 hour doing schoolwork for like 3 days a week and its ridiculous. most of them don't have tests or reflections or discussions about what they learned. most of them are missing certain subjects and are very behind. most parents don't know how to teach their kids math after a certain level and some dotn even teach their kid how to read because they don't know how!! most homeschoolers I know will watch educational youtube videos for english history and science and usually khan academy for math, but there's no structure and the kids usually don't even do any of these most days of the week. my parents were like this til I got to highschool and thank god for me we started using an actual curriculum so that I could finally be on track but I was behind in math I had to work for a few months to get back on track and because I had to get on track so fast sometimes I forget basic things and struggle more than others. but most highschoolers in homeschool I know weren't lucky enough to get a curriculum. i use time4learning which is 35 bucks a month and grades you instead of your parents grading you again thank god so I have a 3.91 gpa. but when I tell you 90 percent of the homeschool kids I know are homeschooled to be sheltered from the real world and differing religious and political views and are so behind and unstructured so their parents can control them for longer. im telling you its so sad to see.

[@shinefox2116]

I was homeschooled 4th - 12th. Taught myself completely after my parents gave up after 5th grade. Took a few years after I left the house to learn how to socialize with other people my age

[@jordanharriman5846]

Awesome Video! I like the part where you point out schools inherently teach us to respect our systems of power, and how maybe that’s what needs to change! In my experience as a student some teachers want to challenge systems of power, but stop themselves cause they’ll get in trouble for pushing their personal beliefs

[@WisecrackEDU]

Yeah being a teacher can be really tough in terms of how you balance your own views and ideals vs your curriculum.

[@rusty1411]

I went to college with home school kids. They were always weird and you can pick them out of a lineup

[@VariesWits]

I was partially homeschooled for 3 years, in tandem with the public middle school. The issue was educational quality, in what I now hear is called the Colorado Paradox - that the state attracts so many highly educated workers but has a low funding rate for educating their children. I ultimately ended up going into public high school full-time in 9th grade (having skipped 7th along the way). Yes, I took the standardized tests to make sure I was learning. But man those homeschooling textbooks were not subtle in their religious agenda - the anti-evolution biology text with sidebar screeds against abortion and homosexuality; the health textbook that included etiquette for boys pulling out chairs for girls (who were always depicted in modest skirts or dresses, never jeans or shorts); the world history text book with an unmistakable emphasis on the ancient Middle East. The math textbook wasn't ideologically slanted, but it was no-nonsene in a way the public school math books weren't.

[@ncolvin05]

So... bring in the math text books from homeschooling?

[@VariesWits]

@@ncolvin05 Saxon Math, if you're curious.

[@ncolvin05]

@@VariesWits that is, or at least was, a rather popular textbook for a lot of schools, not surprising that it might not be as used anymore.

[@Talon19]

Depends on the specifics. My family lives in a small, rural, VERY conservative town. My spouse and I homeschool because we don’t want our kids brainwashed by conservatives.

[@kzisnbkosplay3346]

As a kid who grew up in a family of teachers and has been a substitute teacher myself, I choose to homeschool my kids. No child left behind, combined with the factory model of education just didn't sit well with me. But homeschool isn't the goal. I'm starting a pay- what- you- can school, and because that is hard and life is busy, my kids are the only ones benefiting from my future school right now. And because I am in the homeschooling circles I hear about when these legal advocacy things are going on. So I can share my voice about how to improve public education, and what might be a good way to monitor homeschooling without turning it into public school at home. I like being able to have my kids learn at their own pace. I think that's important. So that means that monitoring education is more complicated than tests. But public schools should be able to do that too.

[@Uberphish]

I was homeschooled for most of my life due to being in a military family, moreso than because of my parents' religious beliefs, though those did factor in somewhat. Academically it was definitely pretty good for me, since we could take as much time as we needed to ensure I understood concepts I struggled with, and gear methods of learning towards things that interested me or at least kept me more engaged. Also helped that the flexibility of the loose structure meant even regular life events like vacations and normal outings could be geared towards education in practical and stealthy ways. Socially it wasn't the best, but that wasn't for lack of my mom trying. I've always been pretty introverted, and when I did eventually go to High School (jumping right in at Junior Year due to life situations), I struggled in ways that were more due to social anxiety than being a weirdo shut-in or the like. Being forced to adapt to a situation I hated was something that made me better at adapting to adult life in the end, but I don't think it was the only way I could have reached that same point. It was just a crash course...

[@ConsiderIt]

The irony of calling homeschoolers fascist while wanting to ban homeschooling. 🤦‍♀️

[@DrTssha]

I was homeschooled from grade 6 on, pretty much as a last resort. I'd basically given up on school at that point, first refusing to do homework, then later in-class work and eventually, submitting tests via tape recording. My dad once sat with me for 3 hours trying to get me to do my homework...and that stand-off only ended when I went to bed. I refused to bring the pain of school home with me. Fast forward to adulthood, I eventually got a GED (got a perfect score on my science test too), spent some time at university studying philosophy before untreated ADHD ruined that, and...I dunno, I'm on a disability pension and trying to figure out how best to live in my own place (and doing it during a housing crisis too: bonus fun). My life kinda went nowhere. Still, I know enough philosophy of law to tell you that the current majority of the Supreme Court aren't originalists like they claim, but functionally legal realists (and rather cynical ones at that), in my personal opinion. Probably not a take that most people here would disagree with. Also, the sentence "Natural Law Theory of Natural Law" will live rent-free in my head forever.

[@tangoalpha1905]

Besides Psychopath, is there a better term for people who think they own or have some sort of ownership entitlement to other people's children?

[@hmfan24]

As someone with adhd, I liked the idea of unschooling but I think structured lessons and community are important. Overall, there needs to have government oversight. Those kids aren't protected at all.

[@WisecrackEDU]

as a fellow ADHDer I totally relate.

[@ZachTheHuman]

I think it took me actually being responsible for my own education and life for me to realize how important structure is for me (I, too, am an adhd). And I agree with the need for government oversight, as sucky as public systems can be they’re not even comparable to how bad the alternatives are.

[@handeggchan1057]

While good homeschooling can exist (so don't go "but I was homeschooled and am a genius and awesome") for the most part it is done by parents who are woefully unprepared, extremely religious so don't teach actual curriculum, or both. And it isn't just Christians either - islamic and Jewish fundamentalists homeschooling is a problem in some parts of the US and in Europe. Another massive issue is that homeschooled kids are often woefully unprepared for social life once they get integrated into the workforce or come to Highschool. All of the homeschooled kids at my Highschool were very socially awkward and you could tell they were very, very sheltered. They also had to take remedial classes. Homeschooling CAN work (especially for kids with learning disabilities and understanding parents) but it requires at least one parent to be devoted to it full time, which is not possible for many families nowadays, and also requires you to have your kids enrolled in a lot of social programs like team sports, youth groups, etc. Which in my experience, isn't done. It sounds good on paper, but in practice it is veru difficult to pull off, especially after 6th -8th grade.

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

I wasn't homeschooled and am a genius and awesome. Jokes aside, I do have minimal experience with homeschooling. I got expelled from school in 7th grade after the principal assaulted me (long story... this ended with the principal getting fired and me going back to school the next year, so I only actually missed 2 months of schooling) so was homeschooled for a bit. I am quite sharp, so I didn't fall behind at all, but I distinctly remember the extremely weird curriculum of the homeschool courses. For context, my parents aren't religious and neither am I, but mom didn't have time or money to do it any other way that just order a kit from a company and just trust that I'd engage with the work of my own volition. The content of these courses was... obnoxiously religious. Like, uncomfortably so. And literally incorrect in most places about facts and stuff. Inserting biblical passages as part of a math test weird. Literally saying incorrect things about history. The science unit on weather was intensely weird with its attribution of all natural phenomenon to "the will of God". Honestly it felt like a fever dream. It terrified me, and still does. Anybody who engaged with that course who actually believed it would be helpful would be made worse off for having done so.

[@andrewgibbs3346]

Ah, homeschooling. I am a 40 yr old autistic man who was homeschooled from 3rd until 10th grade. I went to a public school from pre-2, then the school said, "hey, this little bastard is nothing but trouble. Do NOT enroll in the fall." So, my parents (who were super conservative baptists) got together with several families and decided to start a homeschooling group at the church. Honestly, I fucking loved it. Being autistic (which we didn't know at the time), it was a fucking lifesaver. I went from failing everything to straight as. And when I finally went back to a "real" school in 10th grade, I tested college level in every subject in my placement test. I actually ended up graduating and starting college at 15, because I would do several days of school work every day, since all the other kids were at school anyway, so I had time while not being distracted to learn. HOWEVER, pretty much every other kid in the homeschool group turned out to be a socially inept moron. Also, I never bought into the whole religion thing, so I dunno if that made a difference. So while I think generally, it's a bad idea, there are definitely some cases where it seems almost necessary. I don't know what would've happened if my parents would have just shuffled me to a different school, but I can't imagine I would have ended up as successful and high functioning as I am today. Also, when we hit the grades where my parents didn't understand the material, they enrolled me in a service where I could call a teacher and get questions answered. That probably made a big difference as well.

[@troperhghar9898]

My mom took me out of 7th grade because I had been getting bullied to the point of several hospital visits it went well ... up until 8th grade where I had to go back to school because neither of my parents graduated 8th grade

[@JhaneTheLady]

I don’t want my child to be in a potential school shooting

[@jlinus7251]

My Indian parents who migrated to Australia pulled me and my brother out of primary school because they thought the material was substandard at best. Then when we went back to highschool (cause Australia teaches a lot more in those years) we were pretty ahead of the curb. So i guess it depends on what level of education your parents have. My stay at home mom had a masters degree in engineering, and taught us quite a bit of handy work as well. Never thought I'd get any of that hands on mechanical expertise at school. But I've had other indian parents pull out their kids and not do as good a job.

[@Rubinsmom]

I have a close friend that was home schooled. While I love her dearly, she is a mess. She is socially inept, not understanding basic social practices. She can't keep a job, because she doesn't understand what is okay and what's not. "I'll go to lunch when I want, go to the bathroom without notice, etc". She doesn't understand finances, or basic adult requirements. She falls into horrible relationships, because her life has been one big case of Stockholm Syndrome. Both of her parents are now deceased, both for treatable diseases that they decided to "pray away". She was denied a real life.

[@benjaminbartholomew]

Having gone to public school, been homeschooled, and a charter school I would say no one schooling/teaching model works best as there are pros and cons to all of them.

[@jamesclark6142]

I loved this video! It would be great if you added a reference list to your description. Thank you.

[@ryanbrink4390]

16:50 I would love an entire video (or series) dedicated to the Grateful Dead. Politically speaking, their "worldview" was more of a lack of a worldview that emphasized American style individualism and a "don't tell me what to do and I won't tell you what to do" attitude. It was interesting since they essentially created a big tent that included hippies, outlaw motorcycle gangs, middle class suburban kids, and basically anyone who was willing to hang with their laissez-fiare attitude. Jerry Garcia in particular was big on making sure no one was telling others what to do and who to be. When I was young I thought that this attitude was cool. You don't bother me, I won't bother you and we'll both be happy, etc. As I get older I tend to think that this laissez faire attitude is less of a good thing. It's difficult for me to put into words why I feel this way and I'm trying to figure it out. Something about being intentional around building communities and social groups.

[@WisecrackEDU]

This would be my dream project. Whenever they shut this thing down, I'll cope by making a bunch of Grateful Dead theory videos over on my own channel.

[@ruru110685]

Glad you mentioned To Train Up a Child. That book and the family that wrote it is an insane rabbit hole.

[@cobracommander8133]

If I had kids, they would definitely be homeschooled-not for religious reasons, but because I had some teachers who were the worst bullies and did more to discourage learning than to encourage it. I would ensure that my kids were socialized with peers their own age and enroll them in extracurricular activities like music, dance, sports, and art.

[@WilliamCarterII]

I was briefly homeschooled in the 7th grade bc Baltimore Pubic Schools were unsafe. BUT my mom was an actual teacher lmao and we returned to public school when Baltimore PS made some reforms that my parents were satisfied with

[@AnsarumShaharumon-bd5iq]

I have cousins that cant write, read, or do any reasonable work because they were in an abusive homeschooling environment. One tried to go to high-school with me and was on average getting 27% legit trying.

[@belle7770]

Hey there, I'm one of those grown-up homeschool kids. Can confirm dating was super awkward (and mostly non-existent). I attended one of those "co-op" institutions, where classes could be taken à la carte. It was super weird even before you consider how dating was explicitly banned. It probably goes without saying but the transition to college was a hell of a wild ride, haha.

[@juliahooper554]

as someone who is homeschooled its crazy because you even talk like you were homeschooled.. yeah no I'm so scared because I graduate may 2025 and I'm going to college and I want to date but I feel like ill be too socially awkward

[@joeylowry]

Hi, 👋 homeschooled human here. I grew up in a homeschool community, and I was homeschooled from kindergarten on. I went on to get an MBA, and now work in communications at a large company and love it. Most of my friends became engineers, and one is a doctor. There were a few people who had failure to launch, but that happens in public schools too. I would say most of us came out well adjusted, socially normal, and happy adults. Hope this helps!

[@adorablegodzilla5628]

Everyone I know who homeschooled, did it because their parents were afraid of the gangs at the school. Those kids did all their classes online and teamed up with other home schoolers and did field trips (and this was 20 years ago). They were able to start university at 16 because they completed everything faster.

[@lynnboartsdye1943]

As a Neurospicy human who had a really bad time in public education I can see the appeal of homeschooling. The lack of standards (at least in America idk what the policy is in other countries) is just a disaster waiting to happen. I feel like there are skills towards becoming a functional adult that are ignored regardless of if you’re homeschooled or in public education such as how to do Taxes, applying for/keeping a job, financial literacy, cooking/Home ec,reconciliation of history, Queer history, internet safety,Sex-Ed. Things that I’m pretty sure if we don’t have a good grasp on as skills we’d starve and be on the streets for. Little Timmy isn’t going to create his own life stability just because he knows that the mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell. This isn’t to demote the academics, they are just as important in providing context and rounding out a persons knowledge base. I’m more referring to surviving in the current society.

[@noahrenken3773]

We all need to watch this 5+ times to show support for no more better help!

[@WisecrackEDU]

Appreciate it.

[@DomyTheMad420]

2:30 🤔 if they are not 'legally or ethically' fit to; drive, stand trial as an adult OR get drunk (be fully responsible for their own 'adult' actions in every way) then they should not be allowed to drive. (since one false move and they'll be standing trial for homicide.) This works both for minimum and maximum age.

[@NoAvailableSpace]

Homeschooler here, I got out of the near cult the religion I was raised in was. I would still identify as a Christian, but not the Homophobic kind. The do unto others, take care of widows and orphans, and love your neighbor type. I do not think Homeschooling is the answer 80% of the time. There are reasons that it is the correct options. I think this video did a great job of approaching this issue.

[@chrps0at0cops]

I was homeschooled as a kid, i turned out fine but dating was hard at the time. My parents were fundamentalist conservative Catholics and it was absolutely religiously motivated. My mom didn't even believe in evolution as most Catholics do. My education was fine since we followed a curriculum and sent in tests for accreditation. I had friends who's parents were much less responsible and they really struggled finding a career and left stay at home mom as the main option for women. I wanted to go to public school for years and was finally allowed to as a sophomore in high school. I'm against homeschooling. Let's focus on fixing and funding our current system (looking at you property taxes keeping poor areas poor) rather than opting out.

[@vraisairs9201]

I wasn’t homeschooled but I have cousins and friends who have been and it can be very damaging for critical thinking and social skills

[@andrechacon6519]

Homeschooling seems like a worthwhile choice if supplemented with extra curriculars. Not interacting with other students is simply a challenge to overcome. I think enrolling in multiple extra curricular programs like tutoring, scouts, organized sports, and religious youth programs could make for a well-rounded homeschool curriculum. After all, it takes a village

[@Heavenlyhomeschool]

Despite the fact that my content (and other creators' content) was used in this video without asking for our permission, especially from such an established creator like yourself, I actually think this video is well made and shows a lot of common misconceptions when it comes to homeschooling. Maybe I can clear some of those up. As a prior public school teacher, I feel like I am one of the more level-headed homeschool content creators out there and I make it very clear on all of my channels that as a teacher, I saw some things from returning homeschoolers that made me absolutely despise homeschooling. However, I also saw the horrors of public school that eventually led me to pulling my own children to homeschool them. I think it really comes down to how it's done. Homeschooling and Unschooling are NOT the same. Homeschooling is also not what it was even 10 years ago. For us in our homeschool, my children are receiving one on one instruction for all subjects and are scoring off the charts compared to their same aged peers on state tests. We follow an academic schedule and are involved with a local homeschool co-op where my children experience all the same "social" benefits of a public school -- holiday parties, recess, "school" dances, electives, etc. Their social calendars are jam packed between playdates, gymnastics, dance, culinary, basketball practices, etc. We can travel at any point in the year and stay on vacation for as long as we want, taking our studies on the road. Two weeks ago my kids finished their math work on clipboards next to a waterfall before volunteering at a local market in the middle of the Appalachian mountains while traveling. You can't tell me they aren't gaining more life experience than a kid who gets to go to Disney once a year during summer break. I never knew homeschool could be like this. I wasn't aware of the resources available and I didn't even know what a homeschool co-op was! 😆We only planned to homeschool temporarily when everything went online with Covid, but after seeing the huge improvements in my kids' academics, behavior, self esteem, moods, etc. I put in my teaching resignation and we have been going strong for 4 years now! All homeschools cannot be treated the same and shouldn't be lumped into a one-size-fits-all category. Just like when I was a teacher, not all 5th grade teachers or classrooms were equal -- you had teachers who went above and beyond and you had teachers who couldn't care less. I personally believe there is a right way to homeschool (which is a huge point of controversy among veteran homeschooling families on my channels) -- Just like teaching in the public schools, things need to be done with fidelity and intention. Just my two-cents. PS - My video was the first one used in this video where I am discussing parents homeschooling students with special needs - Specifically how the parent can be the child's IEP. I fully stand by this as I was a special education teacher, myself. Thanks for the free exposure, and I would have totally given permission to monetize from my content had you asked. ♥ -Jess

[@rikusauske]

Homeschooling is great for foundational skills. But you miss out on advantages of funding for resources, proffesional teachers, and extracurricular programs in later years when education becomes more specialized

[@dmo2189]

Because if a 10 year old gets into an accident, even if they passed the test, everyone would wonder who tf thought it was a good idea to let a 10 year old drive on the highway.

[@Krazie-Ivan]

spent 2nd grade homeschooled, at some other person's house with their kid... all i remember was climbing the tree out front, and gettin a bee sting in the center of my palm...while climbing the tree out front. very nearly went to Alaska shortly after *not* graduating HS, to gut salmon (hi Ralph!), because i knew i wouldn't follow orders blindly in the military. found many things i'm interested in, & now excel at (self-taught), to the point of people asking to pay me in an advisory role. (there's hope for ya, if grades just aren't your bag, kids) my qualms with schooling isn't just against "home", it's with funding - under no circumstance should edu funding be tied to property taxes. the playing field of opportunity is already skewed systemically, and there's zero reason edu needs to contribute to inequality. kids shouldn't be held down by the economic position their parents are in. these selective charter schools are bs too.

[@goofballjar]

Michael... withholding food and cold water baths are terrible, AND To Train Up A Child also instructs parents in the practice of "blanket training." The book teaches parents to place their child on a blanket and to physically punish the child if they leave the blanket. Your child is "good" and not leaving the blanket? No problem! Simply grab their favorite toy, place it just out of their reach, off the blanket, and now they've left the blanket and you get to physically punish them! It literally instructs parents to force their child to break the rules so that the parent can then physically abuse them. The book is horrific.

[@angelinacamacho8575]

reminds me of how some trainers teach dogs the ¨place¨ command by having them sit on a bed or mat then correct them for leaving the mat. if the dog does not leave the mat they lure it with a treat then correct it once it does leave. not so sure about kids but i know with dogs the key is to make what you want them to do be an enjoyable experience for them. if i want my dog to ¨place¨ i just point and say the word and he goes because he knows good things happen when he does. he also knows the longer he stays there the more good things start to happen. if he disobeys me during a training session i dont get mad and punish i just go back to 1 and repeat. unlike dogs though kids can be reasoned with to some extent.

[@dylancampson5213]

I got zero out of four of those state capitals. Could I still get the praise and reassurance just for being honest? 😊

[@Governor-General.of.Qanada]

I thought the capital of Saskatchewan was Saskatoon for the longest time since it has saska in its name. Regina doesn't even have an S! Next thing you know Indianapolis won't be the capital of Indiana, it'll be Muncie. 😂 Apologies: youtube disappears comments

[@Governor-General.of.Qanada]

I thought the capital of Saskatchewan was Saskatoon for the longest time since it has saska in its name. Regina doesn't even have an S! Next thing you know Indianapolis won't be the capital of Indiana, it'll be Muncie. 😂 Apologies: youtube disappears comments

[@Governor-General.of.Qanada]

I thought the capital of Saskatchewan was Saskatoon for the longest time since it has saska in its name. Regina doesn't even have an S! Next thing you know Indianapolis won't be the capital of Indiana, it'll be Muncie. 😂 Apologies: youtube disappears comments

[@Governor-General.of.Qanada]

I thought the capital of Saskatchewan was Saskatoon for the longest time since it has saska in its name. Regina doesn't even have an S! Next thing you know Indianapolis won't be the capital of Indiana, it'll be Muncie. 😂 Apologies: youtube disappears comments

[@Leo99929]

if you shouldn't be able to drive, but can pass the test, then the test isn't right.

[@JChaos1120]

Religion. Religion is what went wrong with homeschooling. I was homeschooled, those kids were nuts.

[@nzuckman]

Was homeschooled secularly and am eternally grateful for it 😌

[@hunterwise5661]

I was home-schooled and fell a year behind from being an honor kid in a public program. :( I was left to my own devices and it didn't end well. I think home-schooling depends on the kids and how much the family is willing to take the time. Also, the religious homeschooling thing is also nuts- people don't get how brainwashed they can be.

[@wmdkitty]

@@nzuckman You're grateful your parents abused you? Sick.

[@ronaldcross6082]

I would like the comment ... but it's at 69

[@SamBrown-g3o]

You started off the piece with some big either/or questions about what homeschooling is. The answer is yes. It's all of those. It just depends on how competent the parents are at teaching their kids. I've personally known plenty of my homeschooled colleagues who were absolutely below the standard they should have been as students in grade school. Now, they're kinda stuck in life without anywhere to go. On the other hand, for me it was educationally really great. My parents made sure I wasn't held back by low standards at public schools. Now, I'm almost always the smartest guy in the room (to a fault, and yes, I did get all four capitals right; I'd have been legit mad if I didn't). Having said that, being homeschooled has had its clear negatives for me personally. As Michael alluded to, I did not date in my teens (which I regret) and I'm still a weird grown up to talk to at weddings. The only reason I function as well as I do is because I made a deliberate choice to work on myself and at some level I stopped caring. So overall, homeschooling is what you make of it, whether that be better or worse. It's an alternative to public education with alternative pros and cons. Having said that, I can't agree more with the point of the piece's back third. There are few things I can imagine that would be more destructive than the complete hollowing out of public education. It is important to baseline society at some level of truth. As much as some dislike state control, the state also currently does a better job of setting standards than anything else. We may dislike the capitalist brainwashing that comes with it, but at least state controlled curriculum still teaches objective truth for subjects like science. That societal baselining is important. Without out, either snake oil salesmen will rule the world or we will all die in a civil war over whether the sky is purple or pink.

[@VWJR86]

Public schooling these days is not the same public schooling from when I went to school (graduated in 04). If anything public schools are nothing more than glorified daycare. We put our child through 1st grade in a public school, and he regressed horribly. We did private Pre-K, and homeschooled kindergarten (covid years). At the end of kindergarten he could write his whole name, ABC's, he could count to 100 in 1s, 5's, and 10's, and knew basic addition and subtraction. At the end of 1st grade he could no longer write his last name, most kids in the class didn't even know their last names, and weren't required to even write their first names in many cases. Counting to 10 was a struggle, and ABC's were a crapshoot. However he could sing baby shark word for word, everyone became bro. We went with a private school, and placement testing put him back in 1st grade. We weren't happy about that by any means, but it was necessary. Now going into third, he is writing cursive, he has been learning spanish, multiplication, division, 4 and 5 syllable words, and he has been required to do a science project each year. This year we are going back to homeschool, and will be using an accredited program like we did in Kindergarten, as well as following a curriculum with lots of hand on assignments, and we will take field trips to museums, or other learning opportunities monthly.

[@Zarolea]

Public schools can vary as well. We just moved, and the prior school, my kid (2nd grade) was getting straight As, and the classroom size was only 15 kids. She was doing very well. When we moved, her grades went down, and the classroom size was double! I noticed a difference in the teacher's as well. I for sure like the teacher in the 1st school much more than the second. She seemed to have more enthusiasm and an understanding of child psychology. The second teacher, I was not impressed with her. The second school didn't even offer spelling! Where before, my kid got As in math, she was now getting Cs. Now I have to homeschool her over summer break to make sure she is prepared for 3rd grade, as the 2nd school fell short. It could be a mix. This school is overall just a worse school. It could also be because she changed schools, she had to adjust to a new routine, and she may not have been starting out at the same place the other kids were. Even though the second school doesn't seem to be as good with the curriculum, I believe it offers other benefits. For one, it is far more diverse. Far more blacks and Latinos at this school. Only 10% white. My kid is white, but I think its important for her to be exposed to more than white kids. The 1st school was around 80% white. Most of her friends are Latino and she's picking up on Spanish hanging out with them and their families. Every time she hangs out with them she acquires new Spanish words and phrases.

[@Dmyardley]

I was homeschooled for most of my education, the curriculum was adequate and the brainwashing was fairly easy to reverse. I certainly wish I could have done the traditional public school route though. FWIW I was the evangelical homeschooler 15:46

[@kemerydunn9532]

I have such a hard time knowing what to feel when I hear someone is homeschooling their kids. There were two families at church growing up that home schooled their kids. One did only very basic, cherry picked science, did English classes up through to "college level" but didn't write any essays, very politically curated history (they'd like Oklahoma's view of history) and their oldest hadn't done math since she was 7 just because she struggled at that age and thus their mom decided that "Anna's brain just doesn't do math." By contrast, the other home school family still adjusts speed for each kid's needs, but they end up at at least the minimum to start public high school by freshman or sophomore year. So for example, the kid my age said he didn't have any trouble with the classes until senior year AP calc because he'd already done all the other classes before starting public high school, and the one my sisters age said it was picking up right where she left off when she joined freshman year. They didn't have any surprises in history or science because their parents were actually using curriculum books. They've sent 2 kids to MIT, one to Harvard, and another to the top state school in our state that's still quite competitive for acceptance rates. So when I hear people I know are homeschooling their kids, I think of the first family and get worried but then remember the second family and think it could be okay. There's just no way to know for sure if they're getting a proper education because there's no oversight or regulations

[@WhenIsItUs]

These parent's aren't just worried about their children's minds being controlled by another entity. They're worried that THEY will not have control over the mind of their child. It's certainly difficult to argue what makes a great parent, but I hope that most will agree it's a selfish urge to want to "control" your child. I've never been religious, but I was put in a class as a teen to get baptized. I liked reading and I grandmother had loved the Christian God so I went along with it. They told me to ask questions, so I asked them why would I ever want to be in heaven if all the people I loved were in hell. According to the rules they gave me, that's where they were. With the reaction they gave me, the cold abandonment, I don't think I'd ever been so disillusioned in my life with an institution that claimed to want to teach me. Our school system sucks, but a good system isn't about controlling a child. It's about nurturing them to feel comfortable enough that they can grow in to what they might want. By a quote attributed to Ghibli founder Miyazaki, it was stated that he wanted to create works that help children be happy to be alive in this world. If a school system isn't doing that, if a parent isn't doing that, then they are failing.

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

If you're afraid that being around more things will make your child have different beliefs that you, it means you already KNOW your beliefs are literally just wrong.

[@monyoung217]

The state of public schooling today seems to follow a historical pattern: educating elites and preparing others for subordinate roles. As a parent of four independent, thoughtful young adults, I've found that the public school system worked well for our children. However, it required effort and commitment on the parents and children. Each year, we actively engaged with their teachers, exchanged contact information, and discussed teaching methodologies. We emphasized to our children that their education was their responsibility, and that their effort directly influenced their outcomes. Beyond mastering fundamentals like reading and math, we encouraged them to think critically and solve problems independently. Our approach as parents emphasized love, patience, understanding, and unwavering support to ensure their success and confidence.

[@kamilmuzyka7228]

I remember discussing the issue of high-school abuse and trauma with my peers long after we all finished education. Public school communities aren't very open or welcoming to loners and outsiders. But one's experience may differ on the time period, area and culture. Some soft norms made by the community of kids may be simply forced on weirdos and other geeks or freaks, as they were called. But as one sociologist told me during a Sci-fi convention - liberalism has failed and forcing kids to accept every difference or not care was causing more trauma and harm, for it removes agency and dissolves communities (if you can't gatekeep or secure them, they are no longer safe). Remote schooling can be a good option for kids lacking social skills or being "easy to victimize" for the sake of "community building" (which happened even in my own mid-school). I personally liked my high-school, because there were many interresting people there and a lot of new things to do and learn. Turned out my peers had the opposite experience, and one of them pointed to being forced to share the school with me and my nerdy antics. The memory I cherish is a trauma to him, and he still hasn't healed. It was then when I learned that you can be abused not feel it, while people around you can be considerred collateral damage by the abuse towards you and your existence. To explain - I had no problem with being called a freak or a nut job, being called names, because I had my passions and hobbies. I had no idea, that some people can actually be affected by being associated by the same hobby.

[@MrZiggens3]

Or maybe just don’t turn high school into your entire life

[@kamilmuzyka7228]

@@MrZiggens3 Teens have currently additional layers of school/teen life outside of the school itself, though very much intertwined from what I heard from teens at conventions and workshops. But as to my former friend... maybe the "high school trauma" is a form of coping with the real world and a mechanism of substituting and masking real issues. I had that after my university where I pointed to a BS problem in order to not to deal with actual issues I was dealing with, but was ashamed to admit.

[@goatsiahthelegend]

One of the reasons that my family is considering home schooling our kids is due to the rise of school shootings. Looking into charter schools as an alternative to make sure they get socialized but it’s a terrifying reality.

[@oopsididamaterialism8113]

My mother in law teaches at a “homeschool co-op,” where several moms teach subjects they have particular interests in to classes of 20 or so kids. They have regular meetings at a physical location and give exams to determine the kids’ mastery of the material. And like… it seems like I’ve heard of that concept before…

[@TheCreepypro]

glad to hear the pros and cons of both sending kids to school or doing it yourself at home