Distributorless Ignition on SBF 5.0L Mustang

It's finally time to bring the 302W small block ford to current technology. I'm going distributorless ignition and coil near plug setup. I'm planning to do this all with OEM Ford components, by converting to EECV ECU.
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Instagram: / rinerautomotive
SBF EEC-V Conversion Build Thread: forum.efidynotuning.com/viewto...
Mustang Build Profile: trackmustangsonline.com/membe...
Chapters
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00:00 Intro
00:44 Why DIS?
02:35 Crank/Cam Sensors
04:48 Coils
06:22 EEC-V ECU
07:40 Wiring Harness
12:23 Trigger Wheel

[@SN95Power]

I'm been following the rzasa thread for a while. Can't wait to see the progress

[@RinerAutomotive]

Awesome. Yea I've seen you mention efi Dyno tuning in some of your videos too

[@that_neon_channel2438]

The callback to Mighty Car Mods is hilarious!

[@mchristr]

Surprised you didn't order a PiMPxs through Stinger Performance. It has all the bells and whistles you would need and it's a lot cheaper than an aftermarket standalone ECU.

[@RinerAutomotive]

The PiMPxs is a standalone ECU. I looked at it but to do the distributorless ignition setup that I did it was going to be $2500. The DIY Ford route was around $500

[@cassandralesh8536]

I did a maf conversion on my 88 5.0 bronco. I built the motor as a HO with HO cam, gt40 heads and exploder intake. I used a 95 gt ecu which also uses e fans. I was looking into EDIS. The eeciv will support that. All 4.6 engines had it. And that started in 91' I know you can turn on the EDIS in the 95' ecu but I'v been wanting to experiment with making the EDIS work with the ecu as is. The EDIS will work independently of ecu control like TFI does. But If the EDIS module wants the same spout signal from the ecu, That I don't know. I have considered using a ecu from a 4.6 as well but I like the aggressive tuning of the mustang ecu. I don't want to mess with chips though. Later eecv is flash programmable so You could delete smog controls. I could image a car ecu would be fine because those cars are fast. and the eeciv is very adaptable. The car ecu would be very plug and play. Move some pins and add the EDIS harness. I would get a exploder cam synch and an aftermarket trigger wheel.

[@RinerAutomotive]

I've read the later mustang eeciv ecus (T4M0, etc) don't support EDIS. I had thought about that. I think the earlier A9L can work with EDIS. With tuning can make the computers do just about anything you want. If you switch to anything later than 95 you'll have to change to the EECV ECU. Which is a lot of work as I've shown.

[@limabravo6065]

Dude you could have saved yourself a lot of headaches with the EDIS-8 setup from the og mod 4.6. I built a distributorless deal for my buddies fox body and that EDIS system is stupid simple, so much so that i built one for my Camaro lol

[@RinerAutomotive]

While that's a good alternative it wouldn't have saved me any headache. Probably just caused more. I have a complete EDIS-8 setup and coil packs sitting on the shelf. The SN95 ecus don't work with the EDIS controller plus they are coil packs where I wanted individual coils. I could have probably ran EDIS on my car using the Autosport Labs Jolt system but then I'm running a separate controller for spark and fuel. I've looked into all the systems this is what suited my needs the best and stayed in budget.

[@limabravo6065]

@@RinerAutomotive ok I should have elaborated: You know how all these aftermarket coil on or near plug systems have similar prices? Well it's because of the controllers taking up the bulk of the cost, the coils, brackets and wires are all dirt cheap if you don't take into account the price charged for names like MSD. So those companies make a big deal about how "complicated" these ignition controllers are justifying what they charge. I called bullshit and went o see if I could build one (I did this in spring 2020 when I had some extra spare time on my hands). Anyway some small companies make edis specific controllers, Megajolt sells a plug and play unit for $200 or a " you solder it together" and assemble the controller. Then there's an open source deal that'll run everything from efi - an electronic transmission from Speeduino, which you can buy ready made ecu's or again go the solder it together yourself route. I went with the speeduino guys and found a seller of their boards on ebay that will build a custom setup depending on what you want it to do. And with mine having ignition controls and rudimentary efi, the completed board was $100. The tuning software is open source and free to use as well, it's very similar to HP tuners if you've ever used them. They have base programs based around all factory tunes from popular engines like the Ford 5.0 and SBC, these are actually copies of the programs used by manufacturers back in the day of obd1 ecu's. Point is you don't have to start from scratch or code anything. All this sounds involved right?, well initially it is, but after knowing what to get and where it was its made subsequent builds 10x easier. Sorry for the novel

[@alltherpm]

I'd like to no more!, can this work on a holley sniper tbi I wonder

[@RinerAutomotive]

Yea I understand. Some people want the systems together as one, some want them broken up. The main thing to know is what type of coils the system works with (built in ignitor or external ignitor) and how many coils you want/need. We are talking about the same system the MegaJolt made by Autosport Labs. I have done the build your own Megasquirt system before. Really just like the OEM reliability and ease of use. Only need to change some parameters, not start from scratch. But things have come a long way since when I tried MS2.

[@limabravo6065]

@@alltherpm it sure does, the sniper throttle body unit uses nothing bespoke to holley, so hi z injectors, and 5volt sensors. The sensors are either gm units or based on gm parts + it's a speed density system so no need to worry about a maf. All the big aftermarket efi throttle bodies can be controlled with other ecu's you just need to know the specs like injector size, are they high resistance or low, what setting the tps wants etc... The companies like Holley use controllers / ecu's with embedded software which can't be deleted or modified too much hence why they can charge what they do

[@mr502go]

I am pretty sure u can stay with eec-iv when using quarterhorse or tweecer

[@RinerAutomotive]

Yep you can. I'm going beyond the capabilities of the sn95 eec-iv with distributorless ignition and some other wants, which is why swapping to EECV

[@sapphire_stang]

Really curious to see how this turns out as I've always wanted to do this myself. However I am afraid of wiring unlike you lol

[@RinerAutomotive]

Got to start somewhere. So far the wiring has been just adding or removing wires. No crimping. But definitely do it on a spare and have a backup. I can easily revert back stock if needed

[@jasoncostello9709]

I am curious why you did not use the explorer wiring harness and ecu that is set up to run the explorer parts you are adding to your engine.

[@RinerAutomotive]

Explorers are coil packs not individual coils. So the ECU won't work. I could have used the harness but it would need to be modified for individual coils as well. Additionally the placement of the ECU is different so lengths are different. For a clean factory look modifying a mustang harness was the best option for me.

[@RinerAutomotive]

Good question though

[@bryancondrey6457]

I would like to do this to a 400 (351C based). Wondering if you have any updates/progress. My current plan is to use the crankshaft wheel and sensor assembly from a 2V 4.6 and the camshaft wheel and sensor from the same engine. Good call on the Godzilla coils. I have not worked out the mounting particulars of the rotating parts and sensing elements but I was hoping to use what the EEC5 ECM sees normally to cut back on the extra variables. I'm not married to that path and I'm hoping your solution would mean less fabrication.

[@RinerAutomotive]

I will have update videos coming soon, maybe 2 weeks. But it runs!

[@bryancondrey6457]

@@RinerAutomotiveWonderful! Looking forward to seeing your solution.

[@Diamondsintherubble]

I’m planning to purchase the f.a.s.t. Xim ignition controller tomorrow. Been planning it for about a month now and I feel like it might be a better package than using the msd 6011

[@RinerAutomotive]

Not familiar with that unit. Looking at it,, it looks to be a standalone ignition system. Would still need custom stuff for sbf. But if I recall you're modular.

[@Diamondsintherubble]

@@RinerAutomotive I’m small block like you. I’m running a carburetor but I like the neat and tidy setup of a cnp ignition as opposed to a distributor. I have wiring tools to make a harness from scratch so my routing will be tidy as well

[@RinerAutomotive]

Oh ok. You might want to look into a standalone edis module with megajolt by auto sport labs. Probably cheaper and just as good.

[@Diamondsintherubble]

@@RinerAutomotive have you looked into the setup for that one you’re taking about at all? The msd looks extremely simple to set up as well as the f.a.s.t. one. However the xim will save me almost $100. (Edit: from what it looks like, it’s saying that I’d need an edis module and different coils which might put me around the same price as my unit but with more complex wiring)

[@RinerAutomotive]

The f.a.s.t. one just looked like a control. I think for all of them still need to figure out crank sensor, trigger wheel, cam sensor, and coils. The msd unit takes care of the cam sensor.

[@steveday5038]

How would this help with installing a s/c?

[@RinerAutomotive]

If installing a screw/roots style like on a terminator Cobra. Normally the distributor is in the way for the snout. Yes Kenny Bell makes one for the sbf by offsetting the blower, but that is just working around the problem.

[@markbrzezinski8889]

Did you balance the trigger wheel. It has one tooth missing. Did you cut a hole on the other side so it was balanced. Maybe someone can tell me/us it's not necessary because it's at the end of the crank or whatever?

[@RinerAutomotive]

I'm actually not sure about that. I do plan to mount it inside close to the engine and not attached to the rubber isolated dampener. It's not mounted out by the pulley. This is something I'll have to look more into. I could drill an appropriate size hole opposite of the missing tooth.

[@markbrzezinski8889]

@@RinerAutomotive Yes drill a hole. The fly wheel is balanced on an automatic with weights that are welded on. Also when they balance your race crank they want everything that is attached to it and they mark the flywheel so you bolt it the same as they did. On the other hand I have read some say it's not necessary? So I am not sure! Drill a hole slightly larger than the missing tooth size because your closer to the centre of rotation. It's mass times fulcrum length must be equal to be balanced.

[@RinerAutomotive]

Thanks. I've done some research and reviews are mixed if needs to be balanced or not. Oh well.

[@RinerAutomotive]

Looking at the stock explorer trigger wheel that I have, it doesn't have any balance hole. But the balancer has what look like balance holes drilled in it

[@alltherpm]

It might throughout the balance at like 20,000 rpm, damn

[@-5th-korbindallasss123]

Any chance on supplying me with a trigger wheel?

[@TheModAddict]

Very good information. Wonder if Terminator X would run this ok.

[@RinerAutomotive]

Possibly. If it can run 4.6L coils then yes