Divers React to Untold Story of A 2023 Cave Diver's DEADLY Mistake At Jackson Blue

[@theohsyns]

I’m sorry for your guys loss. It’s always hard losing a close friend and colleague. On a happier note the “Hi I’m Woody” always brings a smile to my face. Both you guys are class acts. 👏

[@mpayne8206]

I hate when they add things like what "Ben was thinking" or "Ben wanted to take charge". Adding emotions and details that you couldn't possibly know is disgusting and irresponsible.

[@fiddytwo]

It is clear there was virtually no research done for this video

[@user-kb1hw2yq2f]

As popular and loved as Mr.Ballen channel is, he does that NON stop.

[@ryanb-ol2pf]

I just wanted to thank the 2 of you. My moms been in the ICU for 4 days and im trying to not breakdown. shes all i have. I unexpectedly lost my brother then my father, and all my close friends have passed away. Its been very difficult. I dont have a family, just my mom. Dive Talk has truly kept me together these last few days. I want to tell you guys how much I deeply appreciate and respect you both. Thank you for helping me, maybe saving me. I send you, Ben and his family my love and prayers❤🙏

[@DIVETALK]

We appreciate you Ryan.

[@3six967]

🙏

[@heyitsalannaluv]

My prayers goes out to you and your mom ❤

[@stormyskyz4251]

Best of wishes ❤

[@kettisalawhorn7060]

I pray that the Lord will heal your heart and family and bring comfort in the time of need. Also may his strength be your strength and not your own so you may get through this new journey in your life in Christ Jesus name Amen. Deepest condolences so sorry for your lost

[@TheHappyhorus]

I just want to say you all have my deepest sympathy for your friend Ben, I don’t know anyone involved but this sounds like a terrible tragedy. I know your community will keep his memory safe. All the best to all the folks affected.

[@IanT372]

Thank you guys for always being willing to look at any and all diving incidents with objectivity and honesty. You two are my go to for any diving news coverage!

[@jackg2630]

I agrée, it’s one of those things that has so many things that can go wrong you can do everything right and make one mistake and it just punishes you for that one mistake. Even if everything else goes as planned

[@cincinnattydaddy4105]

Same here and I dont even like to swim.

[@rainbowraver666]

so sorry for the loss of your friend :( it seems so strange to me that the creator of this video went into some of the specific details of how cave diving works that others tend to leave out but still said oxygen instead of air?? one thing that also grosses me out about these kinds of videos is when they state as fact what the person was thinking/feeling before they died, like its literally impossible to know that so why would you even speculate??

[@g1rl_veteran]

Or just flat out claim something as a fact but it's something the creator of the video couldn't possibly know. But yeah, it is super grimey.

[@casperthelegend1458]

​@@nunyanope4988yeah the problem is buddy clearly did very little research on the topic clearly didn't try reaching out for an actual diver let alone a cave diver to run the video by for inconsistencies like a reputable, respectful creator would and does do. The guy very clearly rushed out a script, recorded sent it to his editor and had it up the next day i guarantee you.

[@jeremyshelton2306]

Man, I can tell that you guys are furious over this video. It is ridiculous that someone would make a video like this without having the facts and making baseless assumptions. It must be heartbreaking to have to watch a video like this one when you know the diver on a personal level. Very sorry guys.

[@axxomovies-he6zi]

It would be nice to hear from their friend at some point. It is an unimaginable head f**k for anyone to go through. One day maybe as time is a healer yes but it isn't an eraser. Learning is the way to live. Dwelling is toxic. Moving forward and remembering is the only way to improve. People only truly die when they are forgotten and not kept alive through our living memory vocalised .

[@mscolli3]

Yeah I lost my mind at the 'gave each other the thumbs up' comment.

[@ThreeBZ]

I mean I don't agree but there's entire of genres of people making videos like this to make money..that's KZbin just turn it off

[@RyanTheSenpai]

the guy showed a face of a deceased man and put a little “subscribe and hit the notification bell” under him.. you can make videos about terrible situations but my god they need to have some respect..

[@dmac7403]

That's what you open yourself up to when you put your personal life on the internet.

[@jackson_craft_gamingscates9324]

u guys are some true friends..... even people u dont know and have never met, u give the utmost respect to when ur speaking about situations that involve accidents....... yall are some quality people

[@bobwilson758]

Yes sir , we see this - Thank you !

[@davidb5195]

Thanks for reacting to this video and correcting the narrator on all of his mistakes.

[@feat.shanika]

My condolences 💐 😢

[@AwokenEntertainment]

not knowing nearly anything about diving myself, I always feel good watching your videos because you call out the commentary that doesn't make sense

[@TerrorTwin]

Hello Woody and Gus, first off I want to express my condolences for your loss. I realize it is a sensitive subject for many in a niche community and want to apologize to anyone who I may have offended. I was genuinely curious about cave diving and decided to make a video regarding a recent event, that was shrouded in speculation. This was a mistake on my end to cover his story without understanding the full grasp and impact he had as a person or a member of the diving community. I failed to ensure all the details were correct as there were little at the time and for that I am truly sorry. I have been a fan of your channel for some time and have certainly learned lessons from you both. Thank you for setting Ben’s story straight.

[@zacharytaylor190]

I see that you delisted the video. Definitely a good first step. Thanks for the response, and I hope that they see this.

[@kyyomilo]

please take the time to think about WHY you're telling these stories as well as how, it's not only the incorrect facts, but that a great man's death was presented as a spooky campfire story, along with blaming him for his own death. it's very easy to become desensitized when you work with horrifying + disturbing material frequently, but remember these are real people with family, friends and lives outside of their deaths. they are not simply stories for you to make sensationalized content about, especially accidents that occurred in recent years like this one. in any case you cover it's possible for the family's and friends of victims to see what you say about them. blaming them for mistakes and insinuating their deaths were their fault is wrong in most cases unless they did something monumentally stupid, but even then people are human and make terrible decisions when scared and if you're covering these types of stories you should be more aware of that.

[@maximumeffort78]

If you want to present a tragic story like this, and have an awareness, appreciation, or are subbed to a channel like DIVETALK, just an idea… maybe reach out to see if they’d be willing to help with presenting factual information? Or research entirely on your own. Or a combo of both? I don’t speak for them and how they’d feel, obviously, but reaching out could’ve prevented being inadvertently offensive. They very worst you can hear from them is no? And you can apply this advice moving forward with other stories too. Best of luck.

[@bobwilson758]

I found this stupid and somewhat childish “ story “ to be nothing but a clickbait hose job ! Apparently nothing of any value at all to the diving community or public , just a thrown up vid To get morbid clicks and more $$$$$ - Cool man Maybe donate to the family to help with Funeral costs - How about it ? We will be in touch with the family to find out …. Thanks in advance

[@Kuutti_original]

​@@nunyanope4988What stories from Ballen has been wrong? (With links please.)

[@ashleymarie804]

Big shout out for the rescue divers and recovery divers. Thank you for all you do for the community and for the people that love them. Send my gratitude and prayers to Ed, he’s an absolute rockstar and to me (& so many other people)he is a super hero in fins. I am so grateful that you guys get to have him on your show and we get to hear his stories. I already listen to Woody and Gus for hours so your guests are a bonus!! 😊 Wood - on a side note, I want to personally thank you for your positive attitude and your kindness. You have such a joyful presence and spirit about you that you always lost my mood. Thank you!

[@tee5210]

I’m so sorry to hear about the loss of your friend and fellow cave diver 🙏

[@JakeSignalYT]

The look on your face when he called them flippers had me dying.

[@playmaka2007]

Very sad about Ben, and sad that people are making things up about his passing. Would love to hear Ed's side of this story.

[@FlipNasty1]

These two are ALL class and so respectful. In all of their reaction videos they are very thorough, compassionate and knowledgeable! I've never even been snorkeling let alone scuba/cave diving. But this is one of my favorite channels!

[@briank.1165]

Hats off to you guys for addressing this on behalf of your fellow cave diver. Ben was obviously an amazing contributor to the diving community, and my heart goes out to all those affected by his loss. Thank you, Woody and Gus.

[@benjaminwilliams4473]

So sorry for your loss guys. It must be hard to keep your cool when dealing with this level of misinformation, especially when it comes from a story of a lost friend. Thank you for your objectivity and willingness to review these incidents, even when it's so close to home. ❤

[@MikeCycling]

So sorry for the loss and I'm glad that you guys did this video to clear things up!

[@joieb340]

Thank you for setting this straight for this mans memory. The narrator had no way of knowing what Ben was thinking or doing even. He ASSumed many things that are not correct and he had no way of knowing what happened. Prayers for this man and his family.

[@kleeklor]

I went to school with Ben in nyc. Though we lost touch in later years, I always remembered him fondly, and credited him for introducing me to star wars. He'll be missed.

[@thunderrain789]

I'm so sorry for your loss guys. This person seems like a very nice, perfectly careful individual who had an awful stroke of luck doing what he loved. I hope he rests in peace and his friends and family find comfort.

[@quivalla]

Years ago a co-worker of mine died while diving in the HMCS Columbia that was sunk as a reef near Campbell River BC. Him and another entered the ship without any training at all, they got lost and went in different directions. One got out. Accidents can happen with trained divers and will happen with those who are not. I thought nothing would ever happen to Sheck Exley and it did. So if you want to dive get proper training, dive with those who know the area and look at the history of diving professionals and know it happened even to them. So don't push the boundaries of your skill. Overconfidence hurts us all. Family and friends.

[@kellyshuffler1599]

The problem with videos like that guy made is it all his speculation and he is not in anyway affiliated with the topic. This was someone’s life and unfortunately death. Not a “scary” campfire story to be exploited. I’m sorry for the loss of your friend.

[@kgal1298]

I saw a few other channels that do this. They have zero personal experience with most of the stories. At least with channels like Mr Baller he tells it based on facts he has, but these guys are just picking stories because they saw how popular they were and wanted to make money.

[@NarutoEternal566]

Mr baller is the same. Sometimes, he assumes something, without making sure the facts are straight, or without knowing what actually occured...@@kgal1298

[@aleksalex1590]

True,they can make stories about it but they should use facts in their story and not just their personal opinions or general talks..... But its cool you watch Mr "Baller" I also watch a youtube who tells story same like your Mr "Baller" But the guy i watch is Mr "Ballen" they have a lot in common@@kgal1298

[@corail53]

TerrorTwin does more mountaineering videos than diving videos and as a mountaineer, the amount of stuff he gets wrong about well documented incidents is astounding.

[@mgm8822]

I don’t think he intended to be disrespectful but he seems to make many assumptions with no evidence just to “fill in the gaps.”

[@kyyomilo]

it's heartbreaking to see how tragedies are sensationalized and victims are blamed. so sorry to hear about your friend, and that y'all had to see someone be so disrespectful to his memory.

[@angelachouinard4581]

Sorry for your loss. It's OK for you to take it personally, you knew him. Running a video off ASAP after a death or disaster strikes me personally as bad taste, I think there should be a mourning blackout for friends and family. But whether it's diving, flying, climbing or some other activity with inherent risk I want it to be accurate, respectful and a a learning experience. We can't learn until we find out what really happened. Which is why Dive Talk is at the top of my list.

[@bluelagooon]

@@nunyanope4988the world doesn’t work without money.

[@ZYNeel]

I can't believe woody didn't stop the video when the narrator said they gave each other "the thumbs up" at around 79 feet.

[@SonnyKnutson]

At first I wasn't sure what you meant by this because I am not a diver. But I realized a couple seconds later that thumbs up in diving means to surface aka, lets get out of here. So I see your point xD

[@darkbunny9650]

My condolences on the loss of your friend guys. ♡ Rest in paradise Ben. You'll live on in the hearts and minds of your loved ones. ♡

[@toriedwards126]

So sorry to hear about Ben, deepest sympathy, I was frustrated at this video so we really appreciate you explaining this to us, it must have been worse watching this about your friend, all the wrong info and that, this is so sad, heart breaks for all the family and all involved. Sending love from UK.

[@mssarahdale]

I am so sorry to hear about the loss of your friend. What a tough situation 😢 Good on you both for honouring your friend and dispelling the wrong information in that vid where you could. ----- My dive instructor told me a story of one of the scariest issues he faced on a solo cave dive. He went back to a dive he did when younger. He had to take off his gear to push it through the restriction. Went to go through while holding his gear in front of him and got stuck because he was heavier and couldnt go forward or backward. He was full on stuck. He started to panic for a second and did the math and knew no one would be looking for him for about 5 hours. He reminded himself he had about 8 hrs of gas if I remember the details correctly and somehow was able to stop panicking and start going through a list of ideas and info he had to try to get out of the situation. (He is a tech diver, cave certified, former military diver as well I believe) He got out by taking a breath, blowing out and at the end of his breath when he was a little smaller, he would wiggle back mere millimeters. He told me it took him 2 minutes to get stuck and 4+ hours to get out. 😮

[@horsepanther]

Wow. What a terrifying experience. And 4+ hours to get back out--it's amazing he was able to hold it together that entire time.

[@wakingtheworld]

@@horsepanther Staying calm, doing the maths on his air & knowing that inch by inch (or maybe mm by mm) he was making progress. An infallible belief that he would succeed in getting back to the surface would be key.... but who the hell knows what anyone is thinking/feeling or going through. 'Terror Twin' seems to though!

[@slartybarfastb3648]

Rule #1: Don't be a douche. Thank you for calling these KZbin vultures out and correcting their garbage using your experience and knowledge.

[@GingerNinja1]

My condolences to you all on the loss of your friend. His death is a stark reminder of just how dangerous cave diving is. Keeping his family & loved one in my prayers.

[@ProfileP246]

Sorry for the loss of your friend guys it’s obviously a sad thing to talk about and I feel you both reacted to the video in the most appropriate way possible. As always thanks 😢

[@platty9237]

As a listener, there’s so much I don’t consider when it comes to a character’s motives. The fact that you knew Ben and can contest some of this stuff is eye opening. For example, your response when the narrator said Ben was unprepared - I felt that. That said, it sounds like the narrator took some liberties with words like “overconfident” and “inexperienced”.

[@corvinredacted]

This isn't the first time I've seen Gus struggle to understand what a panic attack is like. He describes intentionally slowing his breathing to calm down. If you can do that, you are not in a full panic attack. If you can direct your thoughts, choose one action over another, then control your body enough to do it- you are not currently experiencing true blind panic. It's comforting to think that there is no such thing as a true psychological breakdown into uncontrollable terror (and certainly, there are individuals who are not capable of experiencing it), but if you are one of the unfortunate few to experience complete panic, you know that it doesn't work that way. Sure, if you survive long enough, you'll eventually be able to calm down (your body can only sustain full panic for so long), and breathing slowly _will_ help, but there is a real window of time there where you are entirely helpless. If things go wrong enough during that time, you can quite literally kill yourself by inhaling water or bolting to the surface while holding your breath in an otherwise safe situation. I would have done the latter from 60 feet if I hadn't physically been held down. That was before I knew I had a panic disorder, and I couldn't have controlled my immediate reaction any more than I could choose not to have a seizure. Unfortunately, part of being particularly prone to panic attacks means planning your life around avoiding triggers as much as learning coping mechanisms, especially with dangerous activities. Diving is always going to be a very dangerous activity for me because I cannot rely on being able to adequately control my body 100% of the time. Gus clearly has zero doubt about his ability to remain in control, and he may be right, but that resilience comes just as much from the hardiness of the brain he happened to be born with as with his perspective or attitude. Not all people are lucky enough to have a brain that can tolerate those kinds of stresses. When it comes to extreme situations, even 'normal' people can have true panic attacks. Obviously, training and planning and breathing techniques can all help you avoid a panic attack, but if one truly hits, you won't be in control for the duration. Any slow breathing and thinking comes after it has begun to pass- if you survive that long.

[@alison5009]

Agreed. As someone who began having panic attacks about 10 years ago, you can’t just slow your breathing. I didn’t understand the full extent of it all until I began having them myself.

[@blackdandelion5549]

There are reasons that they struggle to be able to understand a full level 10 panic/anxiety feeling and are very chill people. Behavioral reasons. In people with panic or anxiety disorders it is common for behaviorists to advise clients that they need to regularly practice slowing their breathing and counting their breathes in and out with a long inhale and a longer exhale when they are not in a high level of anxiety. This releases hormones from the brain that cause a person to relax naturally. The goal is that this will be become more like a second nature over time and with practice. The next step is to do it when you feel any anxiety in order to calm and relax your body and mind and put all effort into your breathe work long before you hit lvl 10 on an emotional scale. This will teach the body to go for breath work to calm itself with anxiety instead of escalate with practice. If a person is extremely high in emotion level then you can use full body muscle contractions which happen with anxiety (which is just another word for fear when there is not a reason for a person to be at the level they are at as there is not a tiger chasing them, but the brain does not differentiate) and panic attacks when they reach high level combines with the inhale and squeeze the muscles as tightly as possible and then full release on the exhale, no matter how short the breathes may be in the start. The muscle squeezes with help with the brain chemistry really feeling like your life is in danger, you can't breathe, walls closing in as the body will have adrenaline to deal with getting away from the situation and it needs to be used in some capacity and we can't always take off running to use it up. - Secondly is that when we practice controlled breathing for extended periods like in diving, musical instruments we using our mouth to play, choir, swimming, and some other activities we learn to pace our breathes. You can start the timer on your phone for 2 minutes and just sit and breathe as you normally would and count your breathes for those two minutes and then divide by two when done to get your resting breathes per minute. Woody and gus would have very low numbers for a resting breathe count as they have been practicing their breathing for hours and hours and hours at a time for years and years. A very anxious person will have a much higher breathe count per minute and it shows they are not getting as much oxygen into their blood as well as the calming hormones from the brain that come with slow and paced breathing. It simply means the person would need to practice more controlled breathing in order to get this number lower and lower and lower over time. - This is the reason why many divers who have extensive hours of practiced breathing do not get panicked immediately. There brain goes to slowing their breathing rather than escalating it from lots and lots of practice and smaller mishaps along the course of their training and excursions that they have lived through and breathed through just fine. It's incredibly hard to make them go into a panic even when faced with real danger that many of us would panic at like being completely silted out, having no visibility, squeezing into tight spaces, equipment failures, cave exploration, etc. as they have been not only conditioning their bodies, but now we know they have conditioned their brains to avoid escalation and panic in these situation and continue slow inhales and exhales. It's been proven by psychology now. It doesn't mean they never panic, but many who do and who we see truly panic are those who are significantly newer to diving and do not have hours upon hours of practiced breathing and panic and pull their weights off and end up on the ceiling when they try to inflate to get to the surface because they panic.

[@gorgono1]

I know right, people who have never been through a full blown panic attack think it is as simple as to "breathe and calm down". Panic attacks are the worst psychological terror a person can go through. It is like going through the dying process, but not dying, instead you live on ... with all the aftermath.

[@corvinredacted]

@gorgono1 And each one makes it harder to stop having them. People don't understand that I can put more work into controlling my panic than literally anything else in my life, and I can still be set back years by an unavoidable attack. I think it's one of the worst things a person can go through. I would legit rather lose my dominant hand than ever have a panic attack again. Even the panic attack itself gives you PTSD. It's that horrific. I can literally get PTSD from sitting in my living room if the wrong intrusive thought pops into my head at exactly the wrong time and sets me off.

[@corvinredacted]

@@blackdandelion5549 I don't disagree that there are factors that make panic less likely, including familiarity, repetition, and breathing exercises. What I was addressing was Gus's inability to understand that panic attacks are sometimes unavoidable regardless, and that they can cause a person to entirely lose control of their own actions when they happen. No amount of preparation can make every single person immune to every single panic attack. It's not that simple.

[@katters4368]

I am not super knowledgeable and generally am just a binge watcher and huge fan of you guys and don’t feel like I have any valuable commentary, as I am simply barely even scuba certified and you guys are like my heroes. However, after watching this video I just want to say first off, I am sorry for your loss and from all I have learned from you guys here I was also yelling at my screen listening to the narration of this video. I cannot imagine how you guys must feel watching it. Thank you for being so amazing and consistently informative and true to reality. You guys are helping inform more than you know and I am positive making a significant difference in safety for tons of enthusiasts. Just wanted to give my condolences and also kudos to you guys. I absolutely love your videos and how REAL you are!! I could feel your sadness and anger in this vid. I wish you find answers you seek and peace for your friend and colleague. Much love.

[@air4334]

You guys have respect for each other and the viewers...great to set the people straight on your diving friend Ben. Sorry for the loss ! I don't dive but I really enjoy your channel and I always learn something new !

[@bobwilson758]

Good - I think that is what it’s all about !

[@zed4225]

DiveTalk You guys are always humble and respectful, and first and foremost about safety, you are the epitome of role models in this industry/hobby/passion.

[@luis_exotics]

sorry for your loss fellas. i been watching you guys for around a year and you both have motivated me to get my open water certificate and start diving, blessings, Gus and Woody

[@annikkirahko6714]

I’m so so sorry you lost your friend😢. That’s absolutely heartbreaking and I wish you both some peace. That’s truly awful

[@glitchyhitchy1811]

I can tell how hard this video was to make but not just to defend the name of your friend and his buddy but also dealing with the loss whilst naive idiots try and cash in. Much respect keeping your cool.. send my thoughts to his family and the buddy you who know. That decision to leave for help was brave and admirable and that should be reinforced to him, atleast that incredibly difficult decision gave ben a chance. RIP Ben 🙏

[@jackson_craft_gamingscates9324]

i love yalls vids.... i am not a cave diver or diver of any kind, i went spelunking back in 8th grade on a field trip and had an absolute blast! when i first found your channel it was because of a video reaction yall did for Mr Ballen and i got hooked. I was terrified of the thought of even doing something like this, but after watching for months now i must say i totally would love to do this now that i have come to understand from yalls videos that its just like any other "dangerous" sport out there, proper prep time and procedure and always following safety guidlines will keep you safe and alive. I love that yall speak to us non-cave divers and explain things as well as u do. I think u guys do a great service to the industry and have probably gotten a lot of people involved in diving that otherwise would never have tried it! Keep it up guys!

[@LoveCaveDiving]

I really hope you do not take this comment the wrong way but I would like to know more details as every indecent helps us to learn what to do or avoid. Because you know Ed, maybe he could clarify some details. I would appreciate that. If he can't for one reason or another I respect that. Also Ben was your friend and if do not want to know more I respect that also. Thank you so much for your channel as it helps us have a clear understanding of this sport. I hope I was not disrespectful. Safe diving everyone.

[@je7055]

I was trying not to judge the narrator too harshly. Simple ignorance isn't a sin, after all. Then I got to the end. And holy hell, the degree of hubris and arrogance it takes for somebody with obviously ZERO cave diving experience, much less any rebreather experience, to say "it's *_clear_* Ben and his diving partner did not have enough Sidewinder training" and that they had inadequate "diver experience" in general 🤦‍♂ Thank you, Gus & Woody, for dispelling the misinformation. I have no doubt that your peers in the cave diving community appreciate it.

[@anyonecanart3394]

First of all I'm sorry what happened to your friend that's unfortunate and the other thing that I've noticed with people when it comes to any kind of profession is it's hard to be non-judgmental. When it comes to things like this people that are professionals are going to nitpick something to death and it's not even a bad thing it's just how it is. Every profession does it for example I'm a bartender and everytime I serve another bartender and they have a myriad of things they like to tell me that I'm doing wrong in their opinion or how they do a different at their bar doesn't matter that I've been doing this for 20 years and that it's my bar in my system they have better different ways according to them sometimes they've only been a bartender for 6 months but what I'm getting at is that people wore in trenched in something are sometimes the wrong people to critique it for those very reasons of being hypercritical and thinking about all the stuff they would or wouldn't do that being said I'm sorry what happened to your friend again. Keep up the good work I enjoy your guyses videos

[@GingerNinja1]

They weren't critiquing it, they were viewing it to stop the spread of misinformation of their friend.

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

I know after 20 years (hell... 10 if we're honest) you KNOW that Bartending is a "craft skill" or "artisanal" with a weird mix of performance like a theatrical thing, and part artistic nuance, adding your own unique touch to certain recipes that have passed through generations... Like (for those not in the know) ANYONE can find the original and a few "traditional" recipes for a "Cosmopolitan"... You, no doubt, have a card with exactly that (possibly several) on it so an apprentice or someone "covering" can just pluck the card and follow it... AND any customer can get a Cosmo' at your place, with or without you right there... BUT for the odd-duck who shows up and quips something about Cosmo's just not quite "doing it", and you know a handful of variations that SHOULD make the difference, so you suggest he give YOUR Cosmo' a shot... on the house (usually) and you put that inner artisanal chemist to work... With a bit of flourish, you deliver a Cosmo with a little heavy cherry and an extra dash or two of lime, and he LOVES it... orders 3 or 4 more before the evening's out, and you've done the job... just as artistically as I do MY job when I sit on a park bench and sketch with a fountain pen on typing paper, and fob off scenes and portraits for $10-20 each... freehand... no tools... just "eyeballing" everything... What's different with the 6 month noob' is STYLE... SO for the artists (even aspiring) who pop into this thread, a LOT is there in any "craft market" that's a "strictly Style" question and not a "Quality" question... Everybody just KNOWS their own style is best (for them)... That's true EVERYWHERE... I still get bitched by artists because I work "without a net" no redundant pencil marks, no landmarking (or they can't see that technique the way I do it, which is closer to the truth... lolz), and I'm not "roughing it in"... or so it appears in public... THAT is the "performance art" at work... Like a stage magician, I'm casting the ILLUSION that I'm not doing those things, and I happily accept the "bitching session" and ALL the "pointers and tips" to help me not have to use hatching and crosshatching to obscure my errant marks... which I'd be hatching for shade and/or texture anyway... so... Whatever... AT LEAST, the artists (including all the professionals with studios) who "teach" me something... They MEAN well. SO... in short... Yes. You are correct. I get you, and this is "addendum" to decipher for those who might struggle... or who might feel frustrated with fellow "pro's" who know so much better in spite of having been "pro" for so little actual time... Hell... Once in a while, even purely by accident, I do even manage to pick up something useful... It's okay. It's even kind of a compliment when someone "helpfully critiques" because they actually are TRYING (sometimes to the point of self destruction) to help... for what it's worth. "I'll think about that." OR "I'll just take that note for advisement. Let's see where it plays out." Are a couple of my (personal) "go-to" responses, and at the very least, they work better for peace than punching someone (who might even need it) in the face... no matter how frustrating they might become. ;o)

[@g1rl_veteran]

Is your comment directed toward the commentary from Gus and Woody or are you referring to the creator of the video they are reacting to. Because the maker of the video is not a diver of any kind as far as I know so it is not he that would be the expert offering cruticisn. So you must be referring to Gus and Woody. They are simply trying to dispel the rumors, misinformation, and outright fabrication of the truth.

[@jackmeehov8917]

Look at Gus...sitting there all bitter he just can't WAIT for the narrator to say something slightly inaccurate 😂

[@RipBillCooper]

No 💩 Sherlock. Did you listen to the video? 🤡

[@seanspartan2023]

So many inconsistencies! Thank you for setting the record straight. I understand that different content creators may put forth their opinions and theories about what happened, but there's so much misinformation and inaccuracy, it's hard to believe it was produced and posted with any good intentions. Thanks again for your thoughtful response.

[@KleioChronicles]

⁠​⁠@@nunyanope4988the point is this guy decided to release a video before all the details are even out and all it contains is misinformation and speculation that makes it seem like Ben was less experienced than he was. It’s completely disrespectful.

[@elizabethbrammer7022]

I’ve been a huge Ballen fan for quite some time, and then recently watched The Deepest Breath, about Alessia. During my follow-up look for content on Alessia, I found you both! Your channel is the most incredible amalgam of these worlds, and gives me the drive to want to do more in the sea (my favorite place), despite my own physical limitations due to a rare autoimmune disorder. So, long story short, thank you for bringing all of this incredible education and content to KZbin!!! 🙏🏻💞

[@sammoyers905]

Hey guys. I am deeply sorry for the loss of your friend. My heart goes out to Ben's family and his dive buddy. This kind of "Click Bait" garbage you reviewed is one of the things that really aggravates me about social media, and media in general anymore. It is all about getting a story out first, not about any factual information. Thank you for putting a knowledgeable spotlight on this garbage. As always, thank you for sharing, and dive safe.

[@Tsumami__]

Every. Channel. On KZbin. Does clickbait, though. Including this one.

[@Loralanthalas]

You act like this is new. Sensationalized journalism has been around longer then any of us have been alive. LONG before the internet, The National Inquirer spread lies every week at your local super market. Hate to break it to ya bud: the ONLY reason you know about half the ahit the CIA has done and any lies at all is because of social media.

[@Pizazzyjazz]

This channel is informed. There’s a difference between releasing content you have no expertise on for clicks and trying to be informative.

[@pi286]

The entire world is backwards, everything is about maximum profit.

[@markogaudiosi5243]

Calm down grandpa, this is youtube.

[@ChristelVinot]

the way gus always says "heylo everybody" reminds me of the times where I would mess up and kinda mix the two (hey and hello) and accidentally say "heylo"

[@Liz-cmc313]

So sorry for your loss guys. So very sad. RIP Ben.

[@FrozeMoments]

Sorry to hear that You guys are making the sport safer.🙏🏼

[@coyotessunset]

Oh, I'm very sorry you lost a dear friend. I know this a sensitive topic for both of you. It is appreciated that your both dispelling the misinformation. Hopefully Ben would be very appreciative of you doing this

[@horsepanther]

I'm very sorry about Ben's death and feel for his family and friends. I think that Terror Twin demonstrated more knowledge of cave diving and more sensitivity to the situation than many of the creators you react to; IMHO the main problem with his video was making unsupported assumptions--about what was going through Ben's and his dive buddy's minds, about their experience level, about nitrogen narcosis being a factor, etc. A couple other commenters here mentioned that much of his script seems to be based on an article about this incident that was written by a legit cave diver, which as it turns out sounds premature and speculative. If so, I feel like it's understandable that this creator relied on that seemingly legit assessment of the situation. But I do believe it's inappropriate, unfair, and crass to inject speculations into this kind of video (apparently either to make things more dramatic or to be able to rush a video out despite not having enough information).

[@g1rl_veteran]

Perfect word, crass.

[@Vinishnoo]

Yeah and I like terror twin, he has a lot of good videos but I agree with everything you just said

[@elobiretv]

MrBallen does the same thing, inserting feelings into the stories yet they don't have a problem with him doing it when they react to his stories. The only reason they are upset with this guy is because they personally knew the person. Not saying I agree with the guy doing it but you cant let other people get away with it too.

[@sarads7877]

Yeah i hate when youtube channels that focus on accidents/true crime do that, like “When X happened, they started thinking about Y” “their mind went to their families” “they must’ve been feeling this or that way” Like you don’t know 💀 why are you acting like you were in their head, it’s so weird to me, like the story isn’t sensational enough so we have to spice it up by making up stories

[@g1rl_veteran]

@@sarads7877 ugh, #Truth

[@miapdx503]

I've learned a little from watching these videos. And every diver needs to know their level of skill, and experience. But over and over we see people challenge themselves...and it's terrifying. Stay safe guys 🌹

[@MarvinWestmaas]

There I was... being happy I was early for a change... that happiness left pretty quickly. Sorry for your loss. In some ways the video, as a 'neutral bystander' isn't even that bad since we don't know the actual facts or are actual cave divers. I am totally understanding your frustration at this video as you do know better. That video should not be monetized, and if it is it should go to the right people and not this guy. The video discussed is slandering the entire caving community, heck before your upload the top comment there said something like: I can't believe 'cavers' always go where they are not supposed to go .. People don't have wings, yet they jump out of planes. People don't have wheels, but they ride om them. Yet a cave is more scary as falling to a certain death if your parachute ( and reserve .. ) fails. Maybe both are scary, and that's why people do it. And those are 'action' sports, which cave diving is the exact opposite off ( or am I wrong? I guess it depends on perception ).

[@Lavrec]

I think its important to acknowledge that videos like this are not strictly made for cave diving community but for regular people. Sure some points are incorrect and technicalities doesnt add up 100% but its enough to convey the message that its important to be well prepared and dont be reckless. Watching this channel help to see how fast things can go wrong and how reckless people diving are. Now knowing that million things could have happened to Ben, we dont know, its very unfortunate and it even further strenghten the message that even experienced divers with best equipment can lose their lives. Be carefull out there. At the same time the video doesnt criticize the sport just reminds that its dangerous. It is annoying in some parts for us but we are not the target audience.

[@XSilverXEclipseX]

Sorry for his friends and families loss. He sounded like a good guy.

[@crazynluv4293]

I'm sorry for the loss of a physician, cave diver and your friend. It sounds like he was a great guy with a big heart. Sending love, prayers and positive thoughts to all his family, friends, and colleagues.

[@britnielevi110]

Love your guys' channel. I wish I wasn't so scared of water and diving so I could do what you guys do! Instead, I'll just watch it from my safe and comfy bed. RIP to your brave friend. ❤️

[@Slayer-tv8ub]

I love how Woody shakes his head in agreement as Gus shakes his head no in disagreement 🤣😂🤣 I love this channel!!!

[@SuV33358]

Yin and Yang😊

[@Mikey.M.V.P.1]

Thanks for sharing this R.I.P Ben my thoughts & prayers are with his family & much love to the dive talk crew ❤

[@ScubaGirlsInternational]

Oh wow. Where do I begin. I began this video open to hearing what was going to be said. The longer the story teller went on, the more angry I became. I'm glad the cave community likes to wait for data and facts before commenting and opening their mouths. This guy was clueless. There is zero change he spoke to an actual cave diver about any details. I didn't know Ben. But I do know his buddy. Neither Ben nor his dive buddy deserved this story tellers inaccurate vomit. Incidents like this are sobering. I was at JB the weekend before and at the cave conference in Lake City when it happened. One thing the dive community did well that day was not speculate and spin rumors and falsehoods. As a diver in general we all want to understand and prevent accidents. As a baby cave diver this highlights the importance of training and practice and staying within your limits. I hate that we had to lose anyone. This is why we train. Not panicing WHEN something goes wrong (not if) is also a skill we have to practice and build muscle for. All my love to Ben's family, his dive buddy, and everyone at DAN.

[@sammoyers905]

@ScubaGirlsInternational, well stated. As a wanna-be cave diver, I hate these click-bait hack pieces. They cause repercussions throughout the dive industry, not just the cave diving community, and cause additional heart ache to the families and others involved. Take care and hope to see you again soon. Dive safe.

[@jenelaina5665]

Well said.

[@Krystal-O]

And the exact reason people like myself don't try something like this without proper training. I got an MRI done a few weeks ago and made myself panic to where I felt like I couldn't breathe, was nauseous and felt faint. I'd be a nuisance in a cave!

[@nikomunar3958]

I understand Gus frustration. But If you want to see an unbiased reaction and more level headed and mature reaction I love to watch woody👍🏼 he keeps it 💯 and is able to put emotions to the side in situations like this🙌🏼

[@sabakurou_]

they lost a friend. everyone's reaction is different and Gus is allowed to have and show the emotions he has towards the guy bullshitting their dead friend. Shaming people for their emotions - this is what immature person would do.

[@bundlefingers9405]

Gus called the content creator a douche very profesh.

[@philw8049]

Thank you guys for doing this. I know it clearly was not easy for you but it’s good to get some perspective from people that actually know what they are talking about. I watched a couple of this channels videos, but it didn’t take long to decide that channel wasn’t for me and you pointed out all the reasons why. I really don’t like channels that totally, well lets be blunt here, Make shit up!!

[@aeonsummoner]

Its a tragic story regardless of the facts, as a consumer of media like this original video, your video has given me thought about the potential harm caused by them. I'm so sorry about Ben.

[@ashleybeazley]

Sorry about the loss of your friend. Prayers to his family ❤

[@Lord_Sully]

Great reaction guys, as always. I will say, even though the guy was DEFINITELY just trying to make a quick buck, I think he did try to be respectful of Ben.

[@valerierodger]

My condolences for your loss. I can’t imagine how infuriating it must’ve been for anyone who knew Ben if they watched that video - it’s good to see the creator appears to have taken your criticism to heart as the video no longer appears to be available. Pointing out whatever mistakes/misjudgments/etc. led to fatality can be a valuable teaching tool; making up things that disparage the deceased so that you can pump out content, on the other hand, is reprehensible

[@Biasknight]

Sorry for the loss of your friend

[@jeremiahmccutcheon3234]

Sorry for y’all’s loss , I like both of y’all’s channels. Terror Twin is a good channel as well. He tried to do the best he could. Nobody has all the facts yet he is just trying to make a video. I think he did ok.

[@CubanazoJB]

Great reaction guys. Sad to see this kind of “documentary” without facts and knowledge, using the lost of a wonderful human being for ratings 😢

[@keenan1177]

im sorry for your loss guys! thanks for all your amazing content Gus and Woody y'all are the best. My heart goes out to Ben's family.

[@graysonwilliams]

I was also a personal friend of Ben's, and did a few dives with him in north Florida's caves, and he invited me to go to Marianna with him to dive that weekend. I still remember getting the call mid-workout from a mutual friend informing me that Ben had passed away in a diving accident, and just sitting there in shock. I'm so glad you two can dissect this abomination of a video and set the record straight re: cave diving, and what happened that Friday.

[@analyticalhabitrails9857]

Sucks this dude is dead. Guys lets be real now, we're just one heartbeat away and next thing, we're standing before THE THRONE. I hope everyone gets ready.

[@allielynn5115]

This is heartbreaking. I have seen this in so many different circumstances. Others trying to create input for a situation they have no place doing so. I am sorry this happened to your friend. Keep teaching. Keep advocating.

[@seleniebeanie]

My condolences for your loss. Thank you for taking the time to educate us, despite the personal tragedy. You guys are courageous, and I believe you will be reunited with your friend one day.

[@HereForVideos]

Best dive channel online. Made me have a whole new perspective of my FL vacations and the ocean. I feel apart of it have so much more respect for it and the power of water. Thank you

[@KarinaTheDreama]

We’re from the drama & I understand the frustration especially when your friend lost his life. But I have to say Gus u have lost so much weight and look amazing!!! Wow! 😊

[@ReediusMaximus]

I’m Really sorry Gus and Woody. That guy shouldn’t be making a video about this when he doesn’t know what really happened at all. He isn’t a cave diver and it seems like he is using the tragedy to get clicks. You both did really good with the commentary. Thank you.

[@elineman7]

Hate hearing others talk about Ben’s passing and other tragic events when they know nothing about the facts of the matter. Sorry to hear about your friend. Love Woody & Gus.

[@koenwijnen9186]

like yourself?

[@elineman7]

@@koenwijnen9186 let me make it clear that I subscribe to Gus & Woodys channel & I was reacting to the video they were reacting too- unsure what you are on about!?

[@koenwijnen9186]

@@elineman7 You dont know about the facts and are commenting about it

[@ENJOIgta3]

I’m late watching this video but I just wanted to say I am very sorry for your loss. Watching this was quite frustrating for myself so I cannot even imagine the frustration both of you experienced while watching this video. I am sending positive thoughts your way and I wish you both, as well as all the affected, the best. Take care.

[@bobbijo1840]

Hey guys, I'm terribly sorry for your loss. I was wondering if the creator of the original video ever reacted or (hopefully) apologized?

[@deguratface9750]

Seems he took it down, the link doesn't work for me.

[@lalexander7338]

It's weird because this channel supports creators like Mr. Ballen who do stories like this all the time, where they pretend to know what someone's last thoughts and moments were and completely make it up.

[@aaroninman]

⁠@@lalexander7338yes but unlike this no body Mr ballen has been in a profession just like these guys that is extremely dangerous and creates a bond between people so he handles the stories more professionally. Also he was a navy seal so he 100% had underwater training with rebreathers but not cave diving experience which he mentions before videos.

[@g1rl_veteran]

​@@lalexander7338mrballen uses artistic license but he bases it on his research and personal interviews with those who can offer firsthand information.

[@bbs5400]

@@lalexander7338 The only difference is that this time they personally knew the guy, so now they're all offended. I get it, but I also don't

[@sabakurou_]

I am so sorry for your loss! And I'm so sorry you have to deal with people like this, who sees tragedies as a source of drama

[@feastmode7931]

these clickbait-heavy, oft poorly researched "real-life horror" channels are kind of an epidemic, and i hate when they water down coverage of cave diving with imprecise language. thank god you're both here to set the record straight. and RIP to Ben...

[@zombbae]

I’m so sorry for your loss guys :( I’m sorry people try to get clicks by using situations like this. Love you guys ❤ keep your head up and to Bens family I’m sorry for your loss.

[@xaphan8581]

I think it’s fair to say that a lot of channels like these or reaction channels usually do subscriber recommended videos. So I mean he could have been recommended this video and did the best he could because people wanted to see it. I honestly didn’t think it was that bad. There’s a lot worse out there

[@Yggdrasil42]

As my cave instructor said: Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast. This applies in many ways: when doing skills, when exiting in zero viz, when learning new gear, when exploring...

[@DocRobotnik]

I appreciate that this must be very difficult, given that it was a friend you lost, but calling the creator a "Grade A douche" before even watching the video, when you praise the likes of MrBallen for covering the same kind of content with a litany of factual errors, seemed a bit uncalled for. Every channel that covers stories like this embellish details without knowing exactly what happened because it helps paint a picture. MrBallen is someone who does this all the time. It wouldn't be much of a story if they just said "we've no idea what they did, when or why, but at some point it went wrong". If this kind of thing is problematic, then you should call it out in every video you react to, so people in those stories aren't hard done by either.

[@Kiterpuss]

I think a big difference between this video and MrBallen is that this video has misinformation that suggests the divers themselves made foolish decisions due to ambition or lack of experience and outright misstates how the diving equipment and nitrogen narcosis work. MrBallen may fill in gaps as needed to tell a story, but he rarely says something that blames the victim or outright misstates scientific facts, and when he does he apologizes and corrects it as he learns. You'd be hard pressed to find a story he tells that doesn't include a "we don't know what this person was thinking in this moment, all we know is they wound up here" somewhere in a story. MrBallen has also only done a contemporary story once that I know of and it was based on court documents so not a lot of room to make a mistake.

[@DocRobotnik]

@@Kiterpuss how much opportunity was this guy afforded to correct and acknowledge as he learns? Was MrBallen called a douche because he didn't have the full story and filled in gaps? Is he criticised for making money out of other people's tragedy?

[@Kiterpuss]

@@DocRobotnik Alright, you clearly just want to be mad about something rather than have a discussion.

[@DocRobotnik]

@@Kiterpuss no, I just disagreed with you and asked a question in reply. If you think that's not a discussion, I don't know what to tell you 🤷‍♂️

[@757History]

i have no experience diving and have no plans to ever go, but i am absolutely addicted to this channel. ive been binging your videos all week. keep up the great work, guys!

[@nuggs9999]

same

[@andrewharton4633]

you guys are awesome and sooo humble. i am not a diver but hearing you guys spit gems each video about safety is heartwarming

[@autumnryn]

Gus you look great! I'm sorry for your loss. It's hard to hear this guy assume all this information. Idk why he didn't mention he was a doctor! To me that's a huge piece of information. This guy makes me furious. I absolutely agree about the panicking situations. As an EMT, this is exactly how we are trained to calm down. But that just isn't the reality all the time. We all have emotions and our reactions aren't always logical. I can't imagine doing this diving. I live in Minnesota and wish I could dive like y'all. I love your show and it's very educational. Both of you add a very good dynamic.

[@harambeexpress]

"Did not have enough sidewinder training" - slow your roll buddy.

[@ScubaGirlsInternational]

Right!? I was yelling at my screen!

[@Bravo-Too-Much]

Well it’s pretty apparent that he didn’t have enough sidewinder training.

[@theroninwrist12]

@@Bravo-Too-Muchright

[@ryanh7167]

​@@Bravo-Too-Much you can be the most experienced person in the world and make terrible mistakes under pressure.

[@goldenretrievermom7945]

I am so sorry to hear about your friend. I hope he rests in peace.

[@ocukor1]

Hey guys, just did my confined water with PADI. It was a clusterf**k, but awesome. The knowledge gained from watching your channel helped me a lot to stay calm and enjoy the torture.

[@kas2515]

condolences for your loss guys ❤ Ben deserves respect and for his memory to be preserved correctly.

[@philw8049]

Ahhh Terrortwin, Glad to know my initial impression of this channel was correct and I refuse to watch anything on it. Very sorry you guys had to do this, I understand why you felt the need to do so.

[@LaPenserosa1]

Rest in peace, Ben. This video was a much more reasoned memorial and explanation than the initial video. Details matter so much! ❤️✌️🌊

[@chrisrichardson4899]

Obviously, this is near and dear to many of us. I am going to say however that while the video is making a LOT of assumptions and frankly making stuff up regards what Ben was thinking/doing. However, regards narcosis. Most of us with lots of experience are not going to give narcosis much thought in JB, but the truth in that there is a little, and very few are diving a helium based mix there to reduce it. I would say that seeing a cave diver not diving 32% Nitrox is very unusual in JB. To narcosis, narcosis can lead to over confidence and that has been well established. However, as a factor in this dive given the depths of JB (not that deep, but just deep enough for a very slight narcosis) and the experience of the divers (not just cave), it is quite unlikely that it was a factor in judgement IMHO. But let's not dismiss that narcosis can cause over confidence in a general sense, it can. One last thing guys, for ages I have told friends that if I die diving, I expect them to be transparent with the how/why, even if that makes me look stupid. I have spent a long time instructing and want my divers to be as well prepared as possible, stories of accidents help prepare and we can learn from them. Gus, you really touched on something important with "stop, think, act", as Woody says he is not sure how many can do that. The truth is until in that situation, most can't even judge themselves how they will react in a given situation. Experience over time with many small things happening will certainly help when building up the tool box of mental discipline when things go poorly indeed.

[@DIVETALK]

Great input. Thanks Chris. Woody

[@haplon33]

RIP Ben. Thank you both for the video and the clarifications.

[@FuzeTheWholeTeam]

love the content guys! keep up the good work. we love you guys!