Divide and Conquer v5 Angmar Overview

[@hueman9330]

I love how everyone talks about how hard this faction is as the player but all I can think about is how much the AI steamrolls as Angmar, even worse if Ered Luin takes the rings.

[@danisrusski6297]

They are also pretty fun to fight tbh. Beat them as Gundabad and Erebor since you get the strategic suprise on them. They have pretty tough infantry, especially the halberds, pikemen, and shock infantry. Decent archers and the wargs are cool alongside humans and actually pretty dangerous. However the faction is middling in quality with a bunch of specialist or novelty elite units making them easy to beat if you get the jump on their starting area and heavy infantry factions dumpster them in open battle if they bring missile units to suppress their AP meele

[@danisrusski6297]

If Ered Luin stays good they tend to muster enough forces to slap down Angmar. Bree fights the Dunlendings but Dunedain hold out a LONG time by themselves and the Goblins stay busy with dwarves, elves and valesmen for ages not really meddling in the Dunedain-Angmar battle.

[@jwb_666]

Oh boy those times where you're just chilling in your corner of the map and when you get down to Gondor Hallas or Forlon is the steward. the amount of times the AI suicides Faramir in Osgiliath is unbelievable... Also is it just me or does Aragorn die more often than not? and the rangers never seem to expand past the 4 settlements they're given at the start

[@ruhapsayaksra8906]

It's great that you conrinue the tradition of faction overviews! I have one suggestion. When you show campaign map you could do it on turn 2 after auto expansion.

[@Augimund]

Yes that's a great suggestion. I will do that from now on rather than guess the auto expansions

[@JipperMcGroot]

Considering I remember Angmar having such emphasis on snow and hill trolls, I’m surprised they don’t have more of a presence

[@Neodreth]

The Witch-King does not have Temple Knights as his bodyguard, he has Guardians of Carn Dum.

[@Owlr4ider]

It's pretty ironic that Angmar's cavalry is best against other cavalry while their region severely lacks strong cavalry nations. The Dwarves don't have any, Brie has very little and both the High Elves and Dunedains do technically but very late and very few units if you allow the AI to get there in the first place. Isengard would love to have the Guardians of Carn Dum, or even the 'elite' Warg units with their innate bonus against horses, to face off against Rohan's numerous cavalry options and also Dol Amroth's if you go that far. They're also useful against the likes of Harad and Khand but for Angmar you really won't be facing any good cavalry from your foes unless you decide to betray the Orcs of Gundabad and than push into the Vale of Anduin as they do have some pretty decent cavalry.

[@williammorgan478]

watched this, thought yeh I'm ready lets get back into into after years off. Warg general looks great, cant wait for some fun battles.... lost him turn 4 to a village riot! Didn't even think that was a thing. Alt F4 and back to adulting for me

[@dnaseb9214]

Oh yes, the return of Agandaur ! My second favorite faction. Agandaur was a joy to play in the BOTTA mod.

[@Based_Witch_Hunter]

Having beaten a Hard/VH campaign with Angmar, I still have no idea how to recruit trolls

[@bluewhitespartan5258]

Only few regions. Ettenmors. Probably another one or two. But i do not know. Maybe you got to grow those settlements.

[@viperpeps7447]

I can say from experience there are more places to recruit barrow wights such as isengaurd and Minas tirith as both have barrows

[@konkwistador3121]

I highly recommend War in the North, very enjoyable and it has surprisingly lot of dialogs and lore for hack & slash game. Also VA for Agandaur slaps.

[@RR-ut3xl]

such a good hack and slash, the slow mo final kills are so satisfying

[@lordoblivion8038]

You know? Why not make the fight hall/Witch king hall where you can recruit Dark Blades, Temple Marksman and Melee version cause it has the "witch king" on it. To make it more valuable to be honest. Same applied to every evil faction (Depending their own units like Azog hall they can recruit Azog Defilers or Bolg hall they can recruit Bolg Champions too)

[@CzeslawPilat]

Oh yes! Finally next overview!

[@midshipman8654]

tHink the decrease in sheild for the guardians is that the shield doesnt protect the surface area of the person and horse as well as just the person on foot.

[@Blooticus]

would you consider doing the campaign overviews on turn 2 once the auto expansion has already taken place?

[@devoidofvoltz2562]

The evil nations lacking guilds is certainly something I find a bit bland about them. Ive toyed with the idea of some "sorcery" related guild, owing to the influence of Sauron and his ringwraith minions to give you a unit or perhaps some special agent but i dont think it really fits with the established themes of DaC. Magic users were always a load of fun in Call of Warhammer.

[@BucketBoatable]

Yeah, sauron's servants are supposed to have magic in the books, that should be hard canon. However it's completely up to fan interpretationtion as to how it actually works. I would also like some magic being in.

[@maxrander0101]

i was thinking about a few groups that could work as good guilds to add to the evil factions and having something like the inns or taverns from the Battle for middle earth 2 and its expansion would be a pretty good thing have them allow you to train a set number of units from the other evil factions have the allowed number hard locked to only a few so they cant be spammed

[@krostine62]

Rhudaur's units are available with Arnor (only) quest when you occupy a Rhudaur settlement ?

[@Blooticus]

i think so, yes

[@Wubbs64]

you may need to destroy Angmar first I think

[@krostine62]

@@Wubbs64 thx for yours answers guys

[@maxrander0101]

you can get them on the reunited kingdom quest chain if you delay the going through the paths of the dead until after Angmar is defeated and you control all the lands of the old Arnor they are tied to a script that is triggered after the defeat of Angmar by the Dunedain i was taking all the north and was dealing with the other tribes trying to take allied lands when it triggered for me was delaying the trip to gondor to make sure i could hold the north

[@Blooticus]

Looking forward to Bree overview though!

[@Manwu5]

Love these faction overviews

[@Sharky_Splitz]

If you're doing this in alphabetical order shouldn't Bree come after the Ar-Adunaim?

[@Augimund]

Ah yes you are absolutely right. Bree would be next after the AA! I must have skipped them on my list by accident.

[@vIPrxyz]

doesnt the witchking get Guardians of carn dum and not temple knights?

[@kckaz4453]

Well done, M8

[@stayunknown3421]

Absolutely love Angmar in DaC, to bad the campaign is a pain in the ass the first 50 turn

[@Elessar-zg6ug]

HELP, does anyone know how I can edit units that only appear later in the campaign? Like Gandalf and Glorfindel????

[@KVINTUS7]

Campaign script

[@ZhadyBoi]

Although i love the scope of the DAC campaign, my only gripe is that orc based factions and to some extent the evil mannish factions have to many elite units which makes it a bit lore breaking in my opinion. This makes me go back to the OG third age mod more often than i'd like. The OG's balance of troops (good guys being more elite but fewer and evil guys being more numerous but weaker) is something i'd like more for this mod. I'd love to play this mod more but this makes it difficult for me. Anybody else feel the same?

[@cambyses1529]

Honestly - no! Thing is the "evil" elites are not as powerful as the elites of the good factions, so the effect you describe still exists. But it does mean you cant just spam out tier 1 elves and expect to rofl stomp every enemy you ever meet. Its like the evil guys are a level behind. So basic elves are comparable in stats to mid tier orcs/evil men and mid tier elves are comparable to evil elites - just elves/dwarves are fewer in number and have long recruitment times. Its probably just in the early mid campaign you might be finding that the AI is able to produce more troops of a higher tier than you can - ie its primarily an economic issue - but once you get established to 6+ cities and especially when you get to the point where you don't just have to recruit everything as soon as it become available, you should be able to field superior quality armies as one of the good guys. Also, not all evil factions are created equal, which does make for a more interesting campaign in my experience. Elite Goblins should not be feared...

[@ZhadyBoi]

@@cambyses1529 I am aware that "good" faction lower tier are on par with "evil" factions mid tiers to a certain extent and so on so forth. However maybe i mispoke or did not properly explain. What i meant by "lore breaking" is more of the visual look of the units. I think it's weird to see well drilled units of orc/goblin factions (sort of like the Hobbit movie BOFA, where the goblin units look and act more like the Uruk-Hai of Isengard) I do think they should have elite units, but i don't feel that atleast Orc units should be so well put together for lack of a better term. Correct me if i'm wrong, but seeing highly drilled black núménorean units outside of the generals bodyguard units is weird for me. This is just my opinion though, feel free to change my mind :)

[@Owlr4ider]

Firstly not all the evil factions are orc based. The obvious ones being Harad, Khand and the Easterlings which are evil men nations, but Angmar too in their DAC interpretation are mostly an evil men faction much like Dunland. As such they should certainly have elite units like other human factions and they have just that. What makes Angmar unique is that it's a bit of a human-orc hybrid faction thanks to the alliance with Gundabad, which gives Angmar access to all the wargs, but other than that the only orcs they have access to are from the evil guild which sucks. In any case, consider the context here. The 2 main orc factions are Mordor and Isengard, which are supposed to be 2 of the strongest factions in the game so it makes perfect sense for them to have elite units. Similarly the Goblins of Moria only have 1 truly elite unit: the Azog's Defilers, which again is perfectly fitting for a Goblin faction. Gundabad is the only anomaly here being an orc faction with high quality orcs, and it also happens to be the only orc faction that's completely made up by the DAC team so yeah... You have to keep in mind the limitations of the game in mind. In the lore it's technically true that the vast majority of Mordor's armies would be utter trash, but those trash units are both extremely numerous and also still capable of killing even the most elite of elf and men units. This simply doesn't translate well into the context of the game, both in terms of how many units you can spam(Moria is the spammiest faction and even it pales in comparison to what lore accurate Mordor would do) and in terms of how functional(or not, as is the case of the game) the trash tier units are. Therefore the mod finds a middle ground, in giving the evil factions the necessary tools to function properly while still keeping them in character as much as feasible, and still giving the good factions a significant advantage in terms of elite units. No evil faction unit(even the most elite of them) can compare with the likes of the Smiths of Eregion, Swan Knights, all the elite high elven units, etc. Similarly for regular troops the evil factions tend to be a tier below the human ones and the human ones a tier below the elf ones(especially high elves, less for lothlorian/woodland).