Diving into the BlisSTer: Is this the ULTIMATE MiSTer Add On?

[@rguitar78]

All this time, and I didn't realize I needed the mini-b to a connected to the IO port... well, at least now I know I can't leave my MT32 Pi attached when using original LL controllers. Thanks so much!!

[@phillewin3645]

BlisSTer has just worked for 3+ years for me. Great addition to the MiSTer! Sometimes I forget to enable LLAPI when starting up and at some point during play I realise it doesn't feel right. It is that obvious when it is working!

[@misterretrowolf1464]

What's Ken Making??? Really great videos is what!!! Thanks for this, super informative video. It really let me know what this is all about.

[@whatskenmaking]

😆 Thanks!

[@jcchaconjr]

I’ve been using the BlisSTer for almost 2 years now, and honestly, I don’t have a single gripe about it. The “worst” experience I had was getting Atari Paddles and a ColecoVision controller to work, but once you realize that specific controller presses are needed for them to be detected, it’s smooth sailing from there. Yes, it would be nice if the code code be merged into the official branch, but I’m OK with it for now. One other “gotcha” is that Uktimate MiSTer is the only vendor who makes a case designed for it. FWIW, I have no gripes about his case, and he was great to deal with, but I have to admit that I get a little jealous of those snazzy aluminum cases. About the pricing - yeah, it starts getting pricey, especially when you start to factor in cables. In my case, I already had previous experience with the Bliss-Box; I also own their 4-player model, which I bought with the complete cable set at purchase. The only adapter I had to buy after the fact was the DB15 cables for Neo-Geo.

[@39zack]

Once again you explain things so I understand :D I had the understanding of that the blisster was an failed project :O

[@whatskenmaking]

Who knows, it certainly could become a failed project one of these days - but I hope not! There are other LLAPI-based solutions as well, so there's a good chance that at least part of your investment in BlisSTer will continue to live on, even if the BlisSTer doesn't.

[@RicardoSaraiva2000]

Why would BlisSTer be a failed project? Works out of the box, just plug and play. The people that say that is the people that don’t have BlisSTer for sale. Should we do the same game and say that Reflex is pure trash and he use / copy the same base of Bliss cables? Sorry but we play a different game 🙌. We produce MiSTers and other FPGA products much before than those guys, and we don’t need that.

[@RicardoSaraiva2000]

@@whatskenmaking BlisSTer just ends if I stop loving retro. Sorry I’m too old for that 🤣

[@greensseanpam5616]

Oh yeah but this is nothing new, the media does that. If you want real info find the disc0rd.

[@adamdavis6958]

Same 😳

[@TarikA]

This guy could teach me anything and I would understand it!

[@flowerhaf913]

A test comparison between normal usb hub vs snac vs blister will be nice

[@xsouldriverx]

If i only have usb controllers (8bitdo, logitech, etc) does the blisster and low latency have any benefit, or is it only for original hardware controlers?

[@steevywonda5320]

@Ken bonjour, d'après vous est-ce possible de brancher un blisster a un ''mister pi'' ? arrêter moi si je me trompe mais l'important sera que japporte le courant dans le blisster, que je le relie au snac et a un port usb. si je respect tout cela ca pourrait fonctionner selon vous car j'ai un ''mister pi'' et je ne détesterais pas l'idée de rajouter un blisster lol :) Merci

[@phillai]

Hey Ken... Thanks for explaining about BlisSTer! 👍 As a slight alternative to BlisSTer, have you tried Reflex Adapt from MiSTer Addons? It would be good if I could do a comparison video with this in the near future! 🙏

[@greensseanpam5616]

I was under the impression the reflex was just an adapter? How does it interact with cores beyond usb? Isn't it just like having 2 Gamer-Pro's with less compatibility? If you have some data on what protocol it uses many of us would be interested to know.

[@whatskenmaking]

I actually did pick up a Reflex Adapt recently and have been using it on my multisystem. The quality and compatibility is great, and I love the OLED screen... it's very well thought out! I may do a video on it soon, but I have a few non-MiSTer projects to get through first. I'd also like to do a deep dive on daemonbite in the near future. I have a pretty big backlog of MiSTer content on my list 😁

[@thelopenator]

So if I understand this correctly when using the blister HDMI ports in USB mode with USB polling enabled it will work but it won't be as fast as using the actual USB port? I wonder the latency in llapi mode compared to snac.

[@greensseanpam5616]

No using HDMI in USB mode, is USB. so it's the same thing. It's just like using any other USB only the USB adapter is attached to the board. When you talk SNAC and LLAPI, latency is not really topic. I mean it can be, but its not relevant. SNAC is pretty much like the OEM stuff, LLAPI is similar in that it polls when the game asks it to poll but there is some over head (800 uS) to get data. So you could say LLAPI is 800 microseconds slower then SCAN ( that's .8 ms ) but its sort of a ridicules point to make because the game compensates for refresh rate lag, normally ( 16ms ). It counts on the fact no input will be read for that downtime. Now some games will poll faster ( gun games ) and SNAC and LLAPI will keep up but again LLAPI has that .8ms lag to deal with. Though playing gun games seems to work remarkably well. Once example where it will not work is a sega phase gun game. That game requires very low timing. And the LLAPI lag will never work but SNAC does.

[@WalrusFPGA]

I have to chime in here, having used the BlisSTer board since it first released there is some context I feel folks should know before diving into this option. See examples below: - There are reliability issues with these boards that folks should know about. I've used MiSTer since 2018 and BlisSTer is literally the only thing that's failed on me during this time, and multiple times now! The first time I had one of the LLAPI HDMI connectors completely come off the board, and this is while it was in a case made for BlisSTer that doesn't allow wiggle room. The second issue was the power button having a serious malfunction and completely stop working, while I was in the middle of trying to 1cc a game in the later half. Completely shuts down the MiSTer when this happens. The third issue was the power button again! Only around a half year since getting the power button "repaired" by sending it directly to Bliss Box, while recording my Samurai Shodown RPG Part 1 video a couple weeks ago, MiSTer just powered off randomly *when I was 4 hours into the recording*. This means I lost ALL PROGRESS up to there and had to start from scratch with that one. Because of the nature of MiSTer's saves, if you haven't opened the OSD a critical power failure like this will result in you LOSING PROGRESS in any game you've been playing. Only time that's happened to me is because of this board. This is just not a reliable option for anyone looking to record longer videos or go for 1cc/speedruns, and those are unfortunately the types of folks who would be most enticed by a board like this, given its low latency & polling sync. - The device is also not "zero lag" otherwise you would be able to use light guns from any system with it, and only the Nintendo Zapper works here because it has more relaxed timing restrictions than most light guns. It has more lag than SNAC, even if it is synchronized to polling intervals. You're going to need to use the USB mode for a lot of situations since the forked cores are limited to a certain set- a fraction of what MiSTer offers. LLAPI cores are also not updated in sync with main cores, so you will not have the latest fixes and framework advancements until this occurs. This makes the board a worse option than most other USB adapters for controllers (Reflex Adapt, Daemonbite, etc) since those work low-lag with everything. - There are also a variety of controller button combinations you will have to memorize that vary for many different controller types you would use with LLAPI. There are so many of these combinations that you will likely inadvertently trigger one of them when playing a game. Take the "turbo" shortcut that's demonstrated in this video, for example. If you were holding down a fire button in a game, then pause to go into menu, press left or right to select something in the menu and then press pause again to exit it, if you mistakenly chose the wrong thing and want to go back in the menu again by hitting pause? Guess what, you've now enabled turbo. This is just one example, but you will encounter this with other shortcuts baked into the firmware also. It's overcomplicated and much less useful than standard MiSTer options for customization, all while not giving the same level of performance as SNAC would (though coming close!). - High speed USB adapters can get you to a similar level of performance without these drawbacks and I wholeheartedly suggest that folks looking into getting a converter for classic controllers, use something like Reflex Adapt instead. You get the low latency benefits and the convenience of it working properly with all of MiSTer's built in functions like comprehensive rebinding and easy-to-use variable rate turbofire, etc. Great performance and convenience on literally every core that MiSTer has or will have in the future. Choose wisely.

[@oferkatz]

is there any way to get zero lag with a wireless controller on the MiSTer? I can't see why not but i cant find anything

[@greensseanpam5616]

How are you going to get zero lag with wireless, that obviously is going to take time? Perhaps you mean on time polling like what LLAPI does? This is very realistic. As a matter a fact Bliss-Box has something in the works for that, if interested reach out they will explain. Ask about the a.i.r. but as for wireless option, you going to be stuck with thing like the m30 and fast polling. Ir honestly is fast enough, but no, not zero lag.

[@oferkatz]

Well, radio waves (and light) actually travel faster in air then in copper, so i still dont get it why not

[@greensseanpam5616]

@@oferkatz I'm not going to pertened to be a physicist but I do work with electronics. Every wireless application I make is always slower. but a google hit says this "A 2.4 GHz wireless connection is typically slower than a wired connection because the 2.4 GHz frequency band is more congested with other devices like microwaves, cordless phones, and neighboring Wi-Fi networks, leading to interference and reduced signal strength, while a wired connection transmits data directly through a cable with minimal interference, allowing for faster speeds."

[@oferkatz]

@@greensseanpam5616 logitech makes a wireless mouse which they claim and is prooven to be faster the a usb wired one, but maybe thats diffrent from old controlers signals, meaning not over usb

[@greensseanpam5616]

@oferkatz cool, I have no doubt that it can be done. I worked with Nordic chip that use a thing they called shock burst, it was great but not as fast as wired. Still, I have yet to see a gamepad go that fast. I'm sure it can be done but prolly unnecessary as no human needs any button to react that fast. A mouse I get.

[@StephanieHua]

How do I get SNAC mode to work? I have the IO connector (USB 3.0) connected to the BisSter. Is it automatic switch between USB mode and SNAC mode?

[@greensseanpam5616]

SNAC is not LLAPI, the BlisSter is for USB or LLAPI, not SNAC . To use SNAC you need a SNAC adapter.

[@bobafettjr85]

That USB connector looked to be too big instead of too small. How did filing the spacers make it fit? Was it just a weird camera angle?

[@whatskenmaking]

It's just the camera angle - the connector was too small, so filing down the stand-off did the trick

[@СергейЛукьяненко-ш6ь]

Why couldn't the I/O board have two serial ports so that two players could play, for example? What's the problem with regular snacs that only exist for the Playstation 1 with an input for two controllers and a light gun. Why don't other snac adapters do this? There would be no need for this blister

[@emmettturner9452]

I just wish this thing could also do true SNAC when needed for obscure accessories. FWIW, the DB9 cores also give you low latency for handhelds if you have a DB9 setup. I’ve been enabling turbo on USB controllers by holding menu and pressing a button. I know these controllers aren’t going to have a menu button, but does that not work here when pressing menu on the I/O board?

[@greensseanpam5616]

the problem with the SNAC is multiplexing all those snac pins to HMDI. a 19pin multiplexer would be crazy. but that is kinda what the APC is for that he shows at the end of the video here. That would work nicely.

[@whatskenmaking]

That's true - with the BlisSTer, there's always going to be an integration layer since it's acting as an interpreter. But your point is also another good reason why it would be beneficial for the BlisSTer firmware to be open source... if it was, the community could add support for those obscure accessories. FWIW, I did buy the Famicom adapter (I know you're a fan of 3rd party FC controllers, Emmett!), but I haven't tested it with anything yet... though as I'm typing this, I'm eyeing the Family BASIC keyboard sitting in corner of my office 😉

[@greensseanpam5616]

@@whatskenmaking IDK, I agree with most everything you say and feel your understanding is on point but I solidly disagree this open source. I think its great to have that but what you loose is ownership. When things go wrong no one is going to take blame or credibility and you have a stalemate situation. IMO, we need both, good open source projects and good close projects. They each have there advantages. BTW: the Author to the BlisSter is very accommodating, just ask and you may get what you are looking for. I'm not sure what you mean by "obscure accessories". The BlisSter chip is pretty well maxed out, that 328 only holds so much. The LLAPI is what limits the ability to use a SNAC like interface. I assume you read what you mentioned? the LLAPI cores only use 2 LLAPI commands. You can do a lot more with it, its not even being fully used. and FWIW there are open source clones like LAMMA.

[@whatskenmaking]

Fair points! I was referring to Emmett's comment on 'obscure accessories', meaning non-standard ones (such as the Famicom keyboard that I mentioned).

[@greensseanpam5616]

@@whatskenmaking yeah it does a few odd balls like that, paddles, guns, keypads, and what not but its main goal sure was controllers.

[@jerryfinn]

I've been using the blisster for 4-5 months now, and didn't even realize that the user I/O port needed to be plugged in to the micro b connector. Yikes, and I've been just using USB for the most part because I didn't think the LLAPI felt right.

[@greensseanpam5616]

yeah its common. I think most people would never know the difference. The way you know your using LLAPI is everything auto maps.

[@soundsonline796]

I have a great idea for a video. No one has done a decent video on using atari controllers and paddles with the atari core. Appreciate your videos thanks

[@drewbug-fw1pv]

There is a older on titled "LLAPI 7800 core using 4 paddles". No config since its LLAPI

[@jcchaconjr]

The paddles are probably the most challenging to get the BlisSTer to recognize. IIRC, you have to press the buttons on BOTH paddles while hitting the reset button for the corresponding controller port. Once you get it working though, it is truly the BEST alternative way to play Atari 2600.

[@Deltax5]

is blister better then the usb with a new switch or xbox sx controller.?? It's just the old controller is kinda dated. A new controller would be cool really.

[@greensseanpam5616]

no, I mean the idea is to use the old controllers. so if you do not want that, then yes its not better :) but why use the mister, just use PC emulation? Mister is about the real experience, using the real controllers just makes good sense.

[@Deltax5]

@@greensseanpam5616they said mister is more accurate. I like mister. everything seems to just work.

[@Deltax5]

I have a blister set up. Does the job. Don't have snak adapter. same thing almost. I plan on getting snak now that it offers 2 to 4 ports.

[@Deltax5]

I just got the mister out of boardum. Really i would of just stuck with emulation and the retro store. Mister seems like a good unit. They should of made the right type of ram right away.

[@pjmlfc05]

Great video! Even with a BlisSTer can you still use a SNAC adapter too? Or are you just restricted to using the BlisSTer board?

[@whatskenmaking]

Thanks! No, the BlisSTer uses the SNAC port for low latency mode. You can use SNAC adapters if you don't use low latency mode, but then the BlisSTer just functions as a USB controller adapter.

[@nestnirvana]

You got a subscriber

[@oferkatz]

Does the BlisSTer supports rumble?

[@BackForwardPunch]

I’ve been waiting on mister exactly because of the billion and 1 ways to do things. Is there an actual best/ most optimal setup?

[@greensseanpam5616]

Buy from Ultamister, get his full BlisSter setup. He really makes it all stupid simple. All of the options just confuse the heck out people, turns a lot of us away imo. The one thing that seem to be common throughout is the HDMI style adapters. Snac, BlisSter, GPA, LAMMA, GP, GPjr, 4-Play, they all use them. The problem with other sellers IMO is the hatred. I think sellers should be natural. Just sell what options are out there not try to fix the market to a certain brand or workflow. Ricardo at ultamister seems to be that guy, he will make you a setup that fits your needs. Just tell him what you want to do and he will suggest the best setup for you.

[@greensseanpam5616]

I think it comes down to what you want. I think ultamister makes some of the best all in one packages. WhatI find bothersome is the hatred. So many sellers want you to buy this, or do not want you to buy that. Yes there are a lot of options. If you do not want to research it all, my advice is go with a nutrual seller. this is where Ricardo comes in. He is not going to tell you, xyz is not the way to go and rather will just set you up with what works for you. If you are new to it all, he sugegstes an all in one setup, ready to go. If you do not like it, return it.

[@whatskenmaking]

Exactly... everyone has their preferences, but unless you know what you want already, I'd suggest just starting out with the bare minimum (DE10-Nano + memory + cheap USB hub is all you need to get started) and add on accessories over time if you find that you want more/different capabilities.

[@pamg6368]

The Mister has so many options because no one gets along. And all the hatred is not helping. Use my stuff, don't use his, etc. Open source is to bring people together and it seem to do the opposite. But if you are in the market for a setup, contact Ricardo. He will get you set up with something that fits your needs. If you do not like it, return it. At lest some one does the work for you and he is neutral, so you won't has issue where something that maybe good for you is overlooked.

[@Flyzguy]

Probably dumb question: would my SNAC adapters work with the bliss box?

[@whatskenmaking]

Not a dumb question! No, the BlisSTer occupies the user port, so you can't plug anything else into. This also means that you can't use other accessories like the MT32Pi with the BlisSTer (but you can't use it with SNAC either)

[@greensseanpam5616]

Well the "adapters" no, they plug in to the user port but the SNAC cables, yes. Snac cables are in fact Bliss-Box cables. There are some goofballs out there that cloned the Bliss-Box cables and then changed the pinouts. I'm sure for good reasons, but those will in fact not work. I think the saturn cable was changed. but most of the other ones are interchangeable.

[@Flyzguy]

Right - I meant the dongles that I bought from Mister add-ons I've been using with snax. They go from my genesis, NES, SNES, psx, to HDMI.

[@drewbug-fw1pv]

@@Flyzguy mr addons copied the Bliss-Box cables. Not there I'm saying that's bad but yes they will work with BB products because they are copies. I think the only cable he did different was the saturn. So BB cables will also work with snac.

[@WalrusFPGA]

Some of the hdmi adapters for blisster are not wired correctly and have pins either missing or misplaced. playstation and saturn for sure, but iirc others as well. you may have issues trying to mix them, since the SNAC hdmi adapters sold by places like misteraddons are all wired completely/correctly.

[@adamdavis6958]

My only aprehensión is the lack of the LLAPI Arcade cores …. If the Arcade cores …. If the Arcade cores all had their own LLAPI then I’d be down

[@whatskenmaking]

Some of the arcade cores do have LLAPI versions, but definitely not all of them

[@greensseanpam5616]

There is not a team taking requests on the Disc0rd. New cores are coming out daily.

[@drewbug-fw1pv]

Not really lacking anymore, update all should give you a lot of cores now. There are two devs working on them these days.

[@adamdavis6958]

@@drewbug-fw1pv 😳 ok then that changes things for me 🤩 🤙🏼

[@cwells7285]

great video ken, i am obsessed with input lag, i dont know why. speaking of which, what are your thoughts on the retrotink4k? would using it with a mister further reduce input lag?

[@greensseanpam5616]

After reading all these comments, IMO the best video to do next is a misconception video. BlisSter is dead - false, its still selling BlisSter only supports LLAPI - false , it does both USB and LLAPI BlisSter has low USB pol rates - true but you can use fast polling to speed it up LLAPI cores are not being worked on - false they are quite alive There are better boards and options - This is subjects, define "better". LLAPI is faster then 1ms, false - its slower but dose not matter, depends on the native game poll rate, it's once a frame rate but it polls moments before the frame ends. This is what the video explains and why it is 0 lag. Most of this was covered in the video but apparently no one watched it. %100 on the video %10 on reaching people. Not sure what that says about the viewers.

[@Supaslicer]

Bliss vs reflex.......FIGHT!

[@whatskenmaking]

Curious about Reflex Adapt now (I admittedly haven't yet looked into it)... I'll take a look!

[@Supaslicer]

@whatskenmaking I own one, from what I can best make of it, and I haven't really asked porky if this is how it works... But my assumption is that it is like a field programmable Daemon bite adapter ... so super low latency usb adapter for native controllers However. Unlike Daemon.. it's not a board thst ks ONLY SYSTEM X.... Instead you just use the bliss hdmi style connector ..say what system the controller is for...and the board just programs itself to work correctly

[@Supaslicer]

Actually I own 2.....so I can do 4 player if needed lol

[@whatskenmaking]

I don't have the device or a schematic, but looking at the source code in the repo (github.com/misteraddons/Reflex-Adapt), it looks like it's AVR based (daemonbite is also AVR).

[@greensseanpam5616]

@@whatskenmaking Also the GPA, this is more of a dirrect compare to the reflex. They use the same chips and have the sale poll rates. Reflex has some advantages, GPA has some.

[@Cookiedon15]

I don't know what I did but I ended up frying my Blister

[@whatskenmaking]

Sorry to hear that - it's easy to plug in a power adapter with too much voltage or the wrong polarity. If that's the case, you probably just burned out the voltage regulator. I'd suggest reaching out to BlissBox and seeing if they can repair it for you

[@Cookiedon15]

@whatskenmaking thank you. I had it for over a year so I ended up getting a USB hub. I still have the Blister, though so maybe I will see if it can be repaired

[@RicardoSaraiva2000]

@@Cookiedon15send us email to support. Probably was used a different PSU than what is recommended.

[@WalrusFPGA]

Mine has failed three times now since getting it, twice in the middle of playing a game and causing progress to be lost. Only thing thats failed on my mister setup since getting it in late 2018, and multiple times now.

[@RicardoSaraiva2000]

Hello @@WalrusFPGA Congratulations on your KZbin channel. It looks fantastic and you're certainly a great gamer. If you have a recent Ultimate BlisSTer rev3 board produced by me, we're more than happy to check what the problem is. Our support is always available, and we always keep the firmware as up-to-date as possible. It already has support for more than 300 controllers and more news is coming. When you say that you've had problems since 2018 exclusively with BlisSTer, let me remind you of the following: we have produced the first MiSTer I/O boards and hub in 2017, v3.1 and it wasn't until the end of 2018 that the serial port was introduced - the well-known USER IO, exclusive feature of version IO5.5. At that time, many cores were still being ported from MiST to MiSTer and without any serial port support. Was not involved in the project back then but I remember that BlisSTer hub was introduced in 2020? just after v5.5, not least because at that time Sorg had (and has) no interest in playing with classic gamepads and joysticks (aka SNAC). Everything changed in 2020, when our friend Sergey came along and we sent him a lot of consoles and DE10nano boards (at Sorg's request) so that the first big cores would appear, particularly the SNES. I can tell if you're playing Saturn these days just because we managed to get several DE10-nano consoles and accessories over to the war side in Ukraine. Everything has changed since then: old core problems have been solved and lots of hardware revisions have been made. Everything has evolved, new add-ons have appeared, but I remind you that all hardware and especially usb ports don’t last forever, as great player you are I believe you done the latest firmware updates? For sure that even your videos on your channel may have evolved over time. I've never heard of you or your KZbin channel before, but I believe that as an experienced gamer you are, understand that what we did in 2017 or 2018 no longer reflects what exists in 2024. Everything changes, hardware changes, the world changes and all the comments are great for making us improve not only personally but also professionally. Cheers and keep up the excellent work, Ricardo UltimateMiSTer.com

[@MozTS]

Looks like the mister is on life support

[@Vvewa]

I will stick to diy daemonbite adapters

[@pamg6368]

I'm a little confused. You bought form the Bliss-Box store, your giving what I would call a pretty extensive review and certainly not negative. Yet, no credit to the company behind this at all? You posted some old link to what looks like a unmaintained web site that tells us nothing about the company. Is there a meaning behind this, something your not telling us?

[@whatskenmaking]

Yeah... I had the links in the description directly to the Bliss Box store, but KZbin removed them and said it violated their policies. I have no idea why 🤷‍♂️ I'll update the description so folks know. Bliss-box dot net is the site if you want to buy it directly from them.

[@zachazlett]

lol not everything is a conspiracy.

[@angrydove4067]

No good for MiSTer Pi so I am out of here.

[@naikrovek]

in all cases where a human is holding the controller, USB polling rate vs SNAC matters approximately 0%. Believe it or not, console hardware like the NES, SNES, and any controller which has more buttons than it has wires on the connector uses polling to get the button data, same as USB.

[@boshi9]

Except polling is controlled by the game and is therefore fully synchronized with the game loop. USB polling is an asynchronous process.

[@greensseanpam5616]

@@boshi9 Right and LLAPI Uses the game polling. Thus the advantage.

[@GoatZilla]

wow kind of a mess

[@Ryuujin1078]

Too techy for you to follow?!

[@GoatZilla]

@@Ryuujin1078 Yes, nothing says "techy" like filing down standoffs, running full data and power cables externally through stacked boards, with the latter being a female barrel jack which *feeds* power. You must be really smart and "techy". What's your degree in?