Are small subwoofers better than big subwoofers?

[@DIYAudioGuy]

6.5's: lddy.no/1jqms 8's: lddy.no/1jqmo 12's: lddy.no/1jqmr Use the code DIYAudio* for a discount!

[@marcfavell]

Yeah usually a smaller woofers have faster response in tighter bass for sound quality but will not go as deep and if you're doing it for sound quality never ever use a ported box or bandpass always a sealed for SQ 💯

[@punman5392]

@@marcfavellsmall woofers will go deep if you add more of them. It’s all about cone area really. Look at bass guitar speaker cabs for example. Hands down the most common configuration for a bass guitar speaker cab is either 4 or 8 10” speakers. A similar sized cab to a typical 8x10 bass cab could fit two 15” or maybe four 12” speakers but most bass players gravitate towards the eight 10” speaker configuration. The 10” speakers can get just as low as a 15” but without as much volume. When you add more speakers it makes up for the volume on the low end while keeping the snappy response of a smaller cone and driver.

[@marcfavell]

​@@punman5392Ah, yes, the age-old myth that adding more woofers somehow bends the laws of acoustics to achieve both deep bass and a "snappy" response. Sure, in theory, more cone area means more air moved, but don’t fool yourself-throwing 10” speakers into a box isn't going to magically conjure the rich, thunderous rumble of a 15". You can replicate the low-end perception with volume, but you’re sacrificing depth for a faux-tightness that only the most ardent bass purists will appreciate-until they hear a real subwoofer. Cheers and Merry Christmas and happy holidays New year 🎊

[@Dagger-Moose]

For a great SQ set up, I find that one 8 in a well built box is enough to fill the cabin with enough bass. My days of epic bass are long behind me. Now its about stealth, SQ and power draw, eliminating rattles and hums and listening to the song as the musician intended. BUT I do understand that people love crazy bass and its fun because I sure did.

[@PunisherOfDeath101]

This comment. Get them midbass away from those doors. Front subwoofer if you can. Underseat midbass or infinite baffle midbass. Sealed box for tight clean response. Those days of getting loud isn't hard anymore. 2 8" can get 140db. That's insane for sq, already too loud.

[@24-7flounderproblem]

🙌💯

[@d0nk3ybrain57]

Getting loud is easy, getting low is a different animal

[@murrayshekelberg9754]

I listen to a lot of older stuff and have mixed feelings on the listening the way intended. Many engineers used to adjust things for the primarily cheap stereos from back in the day. I like rebass stuff but it does often kill the feel of the song. I have started doing my own edits that try to peserve the sound of the song but make it not sound like crap

[@Hammerback0]

Me too. Im 48, and finally weaned myself from the wall of 6 15s, and find peace in only 4 12s and just 156 DB. Oh its nice to relax and not worry about splitting windshields.

[@Bob-pd9ge]

From a long time 12 Volt Industry veteran and car audio fanatic .. . great job on this video IMHO. The technical info was outstanding and unique.

[@blakebrockhaus347]

Port tuning calculations generally dont account for frictional losses, that's why your boxes always turn out being tuned a bit lower than predicted.

[@DIYAudioGuy]

That makes sense. It's a fairly consistent effect.

[@LatvianVideo]

@@DIYAudioGuy If you are using winisd for the port length, then it can be a bit inaccurate, but only sometimes. The software i trust with the port length is hornresp

[@DIYAudioGuy]

@@LatvianVideo I've been meaning to check that out.

[@fusion82]

I been using 12 volt box tune calculator and always works pretty good. When I run a frequency test it's always loudest close to where I tuned it on the calculator

[@fabelgamer7410]

Bass box pro👍 by Harris. It has a end correction factor that's available on port tuning section.

[@shadymaint1]

Ive always been partial to sealed subwoofer boxes. Yes a ported box may hit harder and get louder but a seaed box just sounds better to me. I listen to mostly metal and hard rock.

[@phoqueewe7230]

I've always gone sealed.

[@ADHD_Wils]

Sealed boxes are made for the kind of music you listen to, metal and rock. It wouldn't sound good in a ported box

[@91CavGT5]

My personal experience is while a ported box will always play louder, the overall response of a ported box has bigger peaks AND valleys than a sealed box. So the sealed box will be able to hit the very low notes better than the ported box will.

[@RobByrnes]

The compromise of course is that the sealed box will be larger than the ported at the same tuning frequency

[@shadymaint1]

@@RobByrnes not always. Sub I currently have wants .8 for a sealed box and 1.25 for a ported box.

[@justinbailey6515]

I did a similar test for a science fair project back in the 80s. What i found back then was speaker placement was just as important as size and quantity such that 2 *6.5 speakers next to each was just as loud as 3 *6.5 spaced out. I imagine this was because of acoustic coupling. This was the theory used in the creation of high end polk audio speakers. I'm betting that placing those 4 * 6.5 in a square pattern would outperform the 8s or the 12. This may not have much relevance with car audio however there was always a debate that you could never hear low frequencies within the confinement of a vehicle and thus transducers were better. Maybe a topic for a future video.

[@oldskool235]

Yes, and common air sucks. Every speaker in its own box. Ports on the same surface as the speaker. Ports are for tuning. You use a subsonic filter set to 20. Your port tunes to 25. You sub tunes to 30 give or take. Give boost at 40 and set low pas to 50.

[@ritchschut1997]

Baffle diffraction is a thing. Yes, it matters in a big way. It actually matters even more with mid ranges and tweeters in a tower style speaker.

[@notablediscomfort]

This tells me putting two 12s pointed in the hole to the trunk is gonna push a ridiculous amount of bass.

[@runnergo1398]

@@notablediscomfort Probably because you now have more air in the box?

[@punman5392]

Look at bass guitar amps for a good example. The most common bass guitar speaker configuration is the 8x10 fridge cab or the 4x10 for smaller venues. The speakers are always in a tight square and can move much more air than a single 15”

[@whiggy6976]

The whole point of bigger drivers is they go lower better, that's why they made them in the first place. Multiple smaller drivers might match power rating, cone area or spl, but will never match the resonant frequency or reproduce the physical low frequency wavelengths capable of a single large driver.

[@openzuing]

Thanks for simplifying

[@DIYAudioGuy]

That and you have to dump a ton of $ into the smaller drivers to get similar output.

[@JD-ef1jb]

Yeah I run one 15" for this very reason. I love the super lows. While watching this video on my home theater, I only heard my sub kick in when you were playing the 12" demo.

[@youareawesome591]

Beg to differ. Try out either a DB Drive G7 or a DD 2508g either or in an 8 in or even a DD 1506 for a 6 in sub and I promise you that your argument is nol in void. Personally 2 G7 on a salt 6 in my f150 and can hit the same lows basically as my 6 21's do in my navigator. Never would have believed it myself till I have it. Take my word or try it out. I'm right though after almost 30 years in this hobby I firmly stand on this info first hand. I know where your coming from though. Thought the same thing myself honestly

[@casey360360]

In terms of SPL, one thing most people don't realize or understand is that for any given setup, in order to see a 3dcb gain in output, you need to double the power. If your 2 18's do a 147 at 2000 watts, if you change NOTHING else, to hit 150dcb you need 4,000 watts. To hit 153, 8000 Watts. Power doesn't really mean much, you can make MUCH bigger gains by changing less expensive variables, which you showed really well here, especially when you accidently tossed 1000+ watts to the 12 haha.

[@tacka73]

@@casey360360 this is not factually true it is however a good rule of thumb but not always the case. You can gain Decibels with changes in humidity and isobaric pressure!

[@casey360360]

@@tacka73 *minor changes. And yes, it is factually true. It’s called Acoustic Theory. Decibels are not a linear measurement, they are logarithmic. The entire logarithmic function behind decibels is based on +3dcb requires double the energy input.

[@tacka73]

@casey360360 Can you explain this from this video 10:24 106 watts 125.3 dB 10:28 300 watts 126.4dB 3 x wattage 1.1 dB rise 10:37 620 watts 128.6dB twice previous wattage 2.2dB rise Those are facts not hearsay please please explain?

[@JoshM7]

@@tacka73​​⁠ For one there's compression in real world. Various factors like compression can cause that on paper +3dB gain to be lost. Leaving you with much lower gains. Coil heating up, running out of linear excursion, etc. Could be any one or multiple things at once. But doesn't change the fact on paper you gain +3dB for doubling the power.

[@tacka73]

@@JoshM7 that is my point exactly on Paper with the following equation β(dB)=10log10(II0) but in real life that becomes a rule of thumb because other factors come into play so by saying double the power double the spl (+3dB) is not true and can only be 100% factual when every other thing is perfect 👍🏼

[@gordowg1wg145]

For most people, packaging is one of the biggest issues they'll face with an instllation - there's only so much space that can be used to place the sib's. What this comparison shows is that by being smart, you can get excellent results with a compact install, compared to an impractical large one.

[@bencarignan2711]

I appreciate you stating that the 8's sounded cleaner. Im picky about the smearing effect one hears with larger, heavier drivers. Tight bass is the best bass!

[@DIYAudioGuy]

It was interesting going back and forth listening to the 12 versus the pair of eights. To my ears it sounded like there was something missing with the pair of eights, it just didn't dig down and hit the low notes as hard. But I thought the sound quality itself was cleaner with the 8s.

[@Mr_SynergyPerformance]

I used 4 6.5" woofers in a sealed box for a regular cab GMC truck. Built a sealed "truck box" with the bottom spaced off the floor far enough to mount the woofers down firing. Works great for a tall driver with a bench seat in a reg cab. I also took a prefab ported box for a newer Super Duty, flipped it up, made some mounting feet and did 2 MOJO 8" in my personal reg cab 2500HD. The only way to really get a high excursion woofer behind the seat. Now I have plenty of bass and my seat barely lost any space. So, yes, the big woofers make more output per dollar, but sometimes the space available requires some creative solutions. Great video!

[@alextravine9422]

I just want to recognize and point out just how cool of a feat I just watched you pull off. Within the first 1:15 of this video you earned my respect.

[@stevesmyth4982]

Falcon Acoustics make an upgraded version of the KEF B139 that's rated at 150 W and has and added 25 mm cone excursion, this driver has TS characteristics that make it good for a transmission line. The T-line loudspeakers website has a design named the coffin, it uses a B139 at each end (It's stereo) and measures 6' x 2' x 2' and is two folded and tapered 12' tubee filled with long fibre sheep's wool and is good for below 80 Hz. I built the enclosure using 1" thick MDF and while doing tests at below 20 Hz I started to feel mildly nauseous, at 14 Hz I heard a tick tick tick noise and found it was my window frame being stressed because the large pane of glass was flexing. I turned it off! My point is that you can get an excellent low bass sound without using huge amplifiers if the drivers are paired with a well designed enclosure, the specification claims 0.3 dB down at 10 Hz and it makes an excellent sub for my four pairs of Quad ESL 57s.

[@dieguerrero]

When the 12" is played you instantly hear the 40Hz tone. Even though the 6.5 & 8 had lower measured distortion, by ear it just seems like they only play the upper harmonics

[@chrislacombe9532]

That seems to be the epic battle of the 6.5 sub, port relationship ratio in terms of area and needed depth. They are still fun builds to watch!

[@Special.Purpose.Weapon]

Ahhh , coffee and a DIY Audio Guy vid . Great way to start a Sunday 😉

[@DIYAudioGuy]

Thanks for watching.

[@Special.Purpose.Weapon]

@@DIYAudioGuy you know it , one of my favorite car audio channels.

[@Grommet2007]

The "standard" equation for vent length calculations loses accuracy when the volume of the vent is 10% or more of the volume of the box, and actual Fb ends up being a bit lower than target Fb in those circumstances. Also proximity of the vent to the sides of the box is also going to increase its effective length. Conclusion: if you're aiming for a specific Fb, design the vent in such a way that it can be shortened if required.

[@DIYAudioGuy]

Thanks for the info!

[@lunam7249]

👏👏👏🥰❤❤👏👏🤔i see.....an actuall intelectuall

[@Shut_Up_Wayne]

Tons and tons of work!! this is priceless. Kudos man!

[@DIYAudioGuy]

Thanks!

[@jameshobbs1460]

The mechanical components of a speaker, such as the cone, magnet, surround, and voice coil, are the biggest contributors to harmonic distortion. Drivers with lower distortion may sound cleaner, but some may describe them as less exciting or more sterile. Harmonic distortion is usually inaudible below 1% THD, and a well-designed speaker with quality parts should have a THD below 2% in its intended frequency range... Another useful tool and I think your ears are hearing it is the waterfall text on each speaker. It can show where the speaker is holding out or onto a resonance or has out of the harmonic range sound or ring.

[@dre04mach]

I built a box for 4x 6.5s back in the day - still have it - put 4 tang band w6s in it. was a really easy build - bought a 4x8 (49" wide) sheet of 3/4 in mdf, had home depot cut me 2x 16" strips (front and back) and 4 3.5" strips - for a total of 5in deep, 16' tall and 49" wide box; and was enough for 2 ports - forgot but I think they're 3x3.5. it was tuned for 30hz, those tang bands are only rated for 50w a piece, but can handle way more - and they do have a LOT of xmax (like 13mm?). I had em running off of about 300w amp - so 75w a piece, and no one could believe these were essentially, logitech computer subs. The box fit perfectly in a regular cab superduty. I tend to go small subs when given the option, they do sound cleaner, even if the box is more of a pain in the butt. I kinda wanna play with isobaric loading at some point to see how that works - for these newer/better 6.5" drivers. If space is no concern, maybe even a t-line box.

[@jkreviea]

Back in the day, I had two 10W7s, each had a 500/1. I got sick of that ungodly expensive build, and wanted the rear space back in my extended cab Sonoma. So I spent a couple days designing a ported enclosure for a 8W7. My friends thought I was nuts. Until they heard it.

[@EZShop76]

This is the best apples to apples comparison video between different sizes of subwoofers with similar cone and power. Always looking forward to your informative videos, keep up the great work.

[@DIYAudioGuy]

Thanks

[@Onewheelordeal]

Most ppl looking to add a sub to their car I find really just want to have some amount of bump for a good price, so it was nice seeing your final cost evaluation to confirm I've been correct recommending a single 12 for the masses with more budget constraint than space limitations

[@AllboroLCD]

I just did the same experiment for myself recently! Did 2 different box setups for ch5 on my soundstream amp using Audiopipe DVC subs. A dual 6.5 vented box @ 4ohm drawing 210watts and a single 15 sealed/stuffed box @ 2ohm drawing the full 350watts. The 15 did beat out the two 6.5's, not by a huge margin though. It may be that Im just digging the sealed sound better. Im gonna now rework the smaller box and slim it up so I can swap it in when Im hauling large items and still have full sound.

[@DIYAudioGuy]

That's a good idea.

[@AllboroLCD]

@@DIYAudioGuy have you ever mixed sub sizes in a single enclosure? Theres a JL home sub currently on offer setup that way. Just a curiosity

[@DIYAudioGuy]

@@AllboroLCD I don't recommend that. It takes a lot of work to make it sound right.

[@Jefreeman13]

As a man that just stumbled upon this video, the numbers mean nothing to me but I found myself still very curious. Great video!

[@gjkrisa]

thank you this has been the best information i have learned in about subwoofers without reading a boring book

[@DIYAudioGuy]

Thanks for watching.

[@kroozzy9863]

hi from Australia 👋 great video series 🤩 I used one Kicker 12" L7 Solo Baric between the front seats of my previous van. now i have a new van that seats 3 in the front, so i cant use the 12" L7 Solo Baric the top of the front bench seat lifts up in two individual sections, which provides storage space and secret spot to put tools and IT equipment in. the front height of the benchseat is too low for the 12" L7 Solo Baric, and i dont want to down fire the L7 inside the seat compartment. Solution is to use 2 x 8" subs. this is why i accidently stumbled across your vids while researching 8" subs. i will be watching heaps of your vids so i can work at the volume and dimensions to build a sub box to fit in the benchseat compatment with the 2 x 8" Subs exposed on the front. after watching this vid, you have given me some comfort of losing the use of the 12" L7 Solo Baric and substituting it for two 8" subs i watched someone else's vid detailing the top 5 8" sub drivers, there are one or two drivers that have excellent sesnsitivity with very minimal loss in frequency and SPLA

[@MouseSpart]

In the past 20 years, after experimenting with various setups ranging from a single 10-inch subwoofer up to an 18-inch subwoofer and about 4 setups that include dual 15-inch subs, I experienced situations when a single 18" (3kw amp and 1.2kw speaker measured used power about 2kw)beating dual 15"(3.6kw amp, 1kw speaker, all amp power used!) and a better single 15" (3kw amp, 1.5kw speaker, 2.5kw used) beating the single 18" took me to the conclusion that size and power numbers don't matter.

[@DIYAudioGuy]

There are a ton of confounding variables. It's not just size and power.

[@EBMproductions1]

I agree i feel in a Room or at live events is probably the only instances where 18 to 21 inch woofers are better and where the extra cone area is king.

[@robertlee4809]

​@@EBMproductions1This is a fact. You are correct. The more surface area you have in a cone formulation, the more air you can move. Which is essential for reaching a concert venue sized audience....

[@EBMproductions1]

@@robertlee4809 Yes i believe its more about cone displacement however we know with Pro Audio woofers the 12 inch to 15 inch subs don't have enough displacement and i feel after my tests using car audio in a room that even a 12 inch car sub would need a massive amount more cone displacement to match a 15 inch car sub in a room etc.

[@jamespperry0420]

Totally answered my theory about single subs. Totally solidified my love for single subs

[@danielcates6247]

Im running four 8inch Cerwin Vega subwoofers in a seald box under the seat of my F-150 super cab off of a 1200 watt amp. And it sounds great on everything. Sead boxes sound better for rock, metal, blues and jazz. Subs in sealed boxes require less airspace and the boxes are much smaller because you dont have to add 20% extra space for the ports.

[@DIYAudioGuy]

People are surprised when they find out how much room a properly sized Port will take up.

[@lunam7249]

your ideas are incorrect, but your choice in "vegas" is a 11 out of 10!!❤

[@20hztremor]

CV subs are great, but they really shine in a ported enclosure. Of course Im not to familiar with the new ones out even though I do have the vmaxx just not installed and many other CV subs in my collection. Sealed boxes are great though for the music you mentioned but they can play quite low and loud as well. I would nearly double the power to the subs in a sealed box as long as it is clean undistorted power.

[@incredifunk]

Wish I could get something like that under The rear seat of my '05 Tundra. There's just zero room.

[@alexdlrg]

Nice video. I appreciate that you actually built and measured 3 different subwoofers. A couple of things to improve on in the future: What you called "sensitivity" is actually efficiency. Sensitivity tells you the output level when driven with 2.83 Volts, and it never goes up by 3 dB when adding a second driver; efficiency is the output with one watt of power, and it does generally go up by 3 dB when doubling the drivers. Also, for subwoofers you should measure distortion in something more like the 5-10% range. You measured it at imperceptible levels, and there's no guarantee that the rank order would be similar in the meaningful range. If you make this change, you'll likely find that the measurements track with your listening experience better, and the plots will start to make more sense.

[@DIYAudioGuy]

👍

[@koolkiwikat]

There's no replacement for displacement

[@jjthomas9656]

Great video,i always told customers multiple small drivers are crisoer,tighter,more controlled,but if u just wanna get loud...go big!!as a retired long time spl competitor i love these 12v channels

[@DIYAudioGuy]

Thanks for watching

[@DIYAudioGuy]

The debate rages on.

[@jjthomas9656]

@DIYAudioGuy imo the farther the cone area from the pole piece,the less control the cone has,18s are loud af,but never sound accurate like 8s,10s,12s.just a simple ear test I can hear how much more punchy kick drums are with smaller drivers

[@Nathan-wf1pr]

​​@@MotoAtheist is this punchy accuracy in the top of line subs more? Zx, onyx, etc vs SA or golds. (With correct box and power)

[@richierich8409]

Im running two memphis mojo 6.5 in a chevy box behind my back seat and about 1500w rms. Sounds great.

[@soldjahboy]

Great content as always. This dives into some really technical stuff, some of which was new to me! Always learning when it comes to audio, as there's always some technical nuance unexplored. Interesting results too!

[@Justwantahover]

I built some speakers with 6" woofers and some with a larger box and a 10" woofer (of the same JAYCAR brand woofers). The 6" woofers had good bass and I could hear down to 25 hz with them. So the 6" went down as low as the 10", but the 10" sounded so much more FUN than the 6" (which still didn't disappoint after the 10" woofers). The 10" just had more MPACT in the bass and the kick sounded less muddled in (more separate) than the 6" (by a large measure)! Best kick I heard, with that subtle "puh-huh" that you hear on a live kick drum! 🎉 You don't get that with the 6"! And the 10" kick sound had a sharper edge to it, which seems crazy, they seem to sound faster in the bass than the 6" (maybe the box is slowing the 6" bass down) but I think it's the extra woofer diameter of the 10" that does it. And it doesn't excurt as much cos it moves more air. Just a theory, all I can say is that the 10" JAYCAR woofers are great for their cheap price! 😂

[@neilsnow7973]

Of all the different sub boxes I've had, the 2x12" bandpass box was my favorite as far as sound and punch. It was a big girl with a nice thick plexiglass front...which was useless in a small truck really as I barely had room to put the seats back enough to drive. Backrest of seat was litterally pushed up and onto the box, which was lucky because I didn't do pre-measuring or planning. After I put it all together and went to put it behind the seats I said..."SHIT! Man I hope it fits and I can still drive comfortably!" 2000 Toyota Tacoma SR5 ex-cab. I got lucky really...and had just enough room next to the sub for one passenger in the back as long as they were not too tall or thickly built. Sub was great, but it did require me to upgrade all the factory speakers to keep up, because I could "ONLY" hear the bass. I also had to tighten all my mirrors because they shook so much I wasn't able to see into them...and my windshield mounted rearview would have to be readjusted every time a hard bass peak hit when at medium to higher volumes. I put in 6.5" mid bass component speakers with separate tweeter with a 4 channel clarion amp. They were okay...I know a lot more about speakers and sound now, though still just scratching the surface...I'm merely an enthusiast and musician. I want loud, clear, powerful and no distortion or coloring of my music. I like my music to sound good in the studio, at home and in my vehicle, with little discernable differences. The box I purchased at Best Buy along with the speakers and mono block sub amp. The subs and amp were both Sony Explode, the amp was 900 watt. This was about 20 or so years ago but everything together it was under $1k...that's the JVC head unit, subs and required install kit, component speakers front and rear, amp and install kit. Wasn't much for internet back then or KZbin or any of that. I knew based from info I learned from a guy I knew that competed professionally with his car, that he said if I wanted hard hitting bass for minimal money, the bass I was looking for...bandpass was what I should get. He custom makes all his stuff, with chicken wire and fiberglass to integrate it into the vehicle. Looks sharp. Looking back...yea I probably went overkill in that truck. I wouldn't do it that way today. But man...the bass hit so hard and chicks loved how it felt. lol

[@BigUnk85]

Thanks for the info. I just purchased 3 8s for my challenger.

[@charlescrampton5119]

Car cabin,trunk where placement of box,boxes are speakers....it all plays a part.. That's why when Joe blow shows up having built his own system and it sounds great people admired them! Face it,having g a killer system you can hear before you see is awesome!

[@keauntaewright8006]

I have had multiple different set ups Like 2 Type R 12s sealed box 2 NVX 12s porter box 1 kicker CVT 2 JL audio W6 12s sealed JL box 1 sundown x12 big ported box 1 kicker CVR 15 ported box 1 JL w6 10 ports JL box 2 JL W3 sealed box And the list goes on Currently using my first 8’inch subs i wasn’t hesitant on taking this route in my first pick up truck but let me tell you 4 sundown SA 8s V3s in a ported 3 cube box turned to 32 HZ on a JL RD1500 watt amp .. this is my favorite set up. And yes Hits the low notes it’s quite shocking

[@Blaaake]

I’ve always been a single sub guy. Pulled out my whole system recently for a rebuild. Upgraded to a Skar VXF 15 in a custom ported box. Pairing it with a JP23. I’ve been dying to hear it but I have to wait until I finish everything else.

[@wyblackwolf]

I agree, I'll always go for the biggest sub(s) I can fit and not lose too much usable space, which does vary vehicle to vehicle. I took out the bench seat in the back of my extended cab 98 K2500 in favor of a dual 12" sub center console box & bucket seats. I haven't gotten around to the bucket seats yet.... But hey it sounds GOOD in there, and it pushes enough air I can tune the box with my windows 😅I'm also adding 2 6x9's in the back side panels, and two 6.5's up front on the trans tunnel for better mid & high range. I "Technically" loos two seats that way (the front is a split bench, I never really fold up the front center console) but I don't need 6 seats in an extended cab, 4 is more than enough.

[@AudioHouseOnline]

From an old audio guy, great video!

[@Bradimus1]

It sure depends on what you want out of it. The FS of smaller version of the same driver will be higher and that won't help you play low, even if you still play loud. More drivers means more complicated enclosure builds and wiring, probably more cost. I tend to use the largest subwoofer I can to fit well in a well suited enclosure, for where it will be used. Also that xmax. Some drivers 8-12" versions are all the same motor and spider size and all that changes is mor cone/lower FS.

[@chrismcgill4372]

Just subscribed. You’re extremely knowledgeable and very helpful

[@DIYAudioGuy]

Welcome aboard!

[@seanmartin2382]

I used to run Savard RAP series in the 90's glad to see them back. They used to be top 5 drivers

[@duroxkilo]

9:10 distortion graph: multiple drivers couple acoustically and produce higher output w/ less work resulting in substantially lower harmonic distortion for a given SPL. you get smaller cones to perform as a single cone that's larger than the sum of their cones' surface area (increased sensitivity). but that doesn't apply to the sound output coming out of the port of an enclosure w/ multiple drivers as the port is a single sound source. if each small driver has its own enclosure, then the separate vents would couple acoustically and the distortion in the low fq range (port output) would be (substantially) lower than that of a single driver, just like the graph shows above 80Hz.

[@themadmallard]

If you're an old school stereo guy, say 20 years ago was your time, there was good reason to dump on pretty much anything smaller than a 12". A combinations of how much watts cost in an amp, and their relative inefficiency, the only real way around both those was efficient boxes and bigger drivers. but now.... amps are way more efficient than they have ever been and cheaper per watt, so now you can use a smaller driver that may not be as efficient, but has enough build and Xmax that you can beat the hell out of the thing. If you take someone who hasn't been in the audio game in a while and hand them a modern 8" you could watch their eyes bug out at the construction of the thing.

[@jarodsown2596]

This is very interesting. I always wondered the difference. Personally I prefer sealed enclosures and love my two 12” setup in my standard cab Ranger 😊.

[@DIYAudioGuy]

Cone area is King.

[@JoeIsCrazyWillman]

I can't imagine how much seat room you lost in that Ranger. Up until not too long ago I had a standard cab 2011 Ranger, and it was an absolute chore to build a box for a single Kickert CVX10 to have enough airspace for it and also recess the amplifier into the box since there was basically no room at all under the seat for the amp, not that I wanted my amp just chilling in the middle of the floor under there anyways... Plus that's also where my jumper cables went on the passenger side. Lol. I sacrificed zero slider room and only one click on the recline, but yeah, I had to get kind of crazy on the design of the box in order to fill every nook and cranny along the back wall of the cab and even had to make a weird notch in the box in order to get the magnet to clear.

[@jasonschaeffer72]

I'm happy with my 2 TW3 12s JL AUDIO stealth box under the backseat of my 17 f150 4x4 with the JL RD1000. They freaking slam and sounds phenomenal with all kinds of different types of music

[@DIYAudioGuy]

Given how much those things cost they damn well better sound good.

[@jimmiewomble416]

4 10" subwoofers, isobaric mounted, gave me both higher SPL and lower cutoff than a pair of 12" in a sealed enclosure, in a similarly sized space. The fact that the 10s presented a 2 ohm per channel load, vs. a 4 ohm x 2 for the 12" pair, may have made the difference.

[@Google_Is_Evil]

How will this compare if you use passive radiators instead of ports? You don't have to worry about port dimensions since you can simply put the radiator where you want and tune the mass to get to the equivalent port diameter/length.

[@Silentroller93]

I’m a big fan of 8’s especially when you get them in the right ported box. Usually they are good for moderate bass while sounding good and being quick on beat.

[@Luciferkrist]

I've always used smaller drivers when I need more 'control'. If having sharp crossovers and filters - you're going to have a better time with smaller drivers, but you REALLY need to do your tuning.

[@dillpickle4239]

It's so nice I'm gonna have to watch it twice . Thanks for making all these videos , just stuffed with information 🍻

[@DIYAudioGuy]

Thanks for watching.

[@dillpickle4239]

@DIYAudioGuy lots of great information here thanks for the link . I'm happy with my current setup , might play around with building my own box and trying some different speakers in the future . But here in Canada it's expensive and monies tighter than that 4x8 box so I'll have to wait for now , and keep on dreaming . Thanks for all the great content , catch ya on the next one !

[@Busdude97]

Thats awesome! I love that you made this video. Since showing that the 8's can pronouce the lows better, I kinda want to use an 8 and a 12 combo haha. I already have 12", but now Im gonna get an 8" lol.

[@ladjkaoz]

I believe the 4 6s would sound louder. the and harder.... smaller cone faster respond, but bigger cone can move more air. great video... I would go for the single 12 or dual 8... cant trade area Vs quantity... but as you said if you dont have the space.. you are out of luck..

[@FOH3663]

Smaller faster cone size is a myth. Speed is not linked to weight.

[@JoeIsCrazyWillman]

Okay, so if I'm looking for some low frequency extension / higher output at those low frequencies, I already have a single 12, and plan to do a center console hidden subwoofer box for my full size truck in between the bucket seats of my single cap, so would I want to go with a larger or smaller displacement box? It seems that if I want to keep the base tighter it should be sealed instead of ported, though I've ran a ported box in every other application I've done up till this point with trucks and SUVs, but I'd kind of like to be balanced between SQ and SPL, and it seems like a sealed box might be the better bet for that? So then that just lends to the question of which one, larger or smaller, would lead to higher SPL output at the lower/lowest frequencies? Or should I stick with a ported box, slightly on the smaller end of displacement, with a port tuned closer to 25 to 30 hz?

[@DIYAudioGuy]

That is to much to answer in a comment under a KZbin video.

[@JoeIsCrazyWillman]

@DIYAudioGuy long story short, will a larger displacement sealed box create a larger extension of the deepest bass frequencies than a smaller displacement sealed box with the same woofer? Will that sealed box play the deepest notes comparatively to a ported box (assuming the tuned port frequency is say 35hz, while I'm talking frequencies below that in the 20s)

[@mobobo218]

This will sound crazy but I cannibalized a Bose spare tire well sub/amp from a Nissan since it chuffed. Built a sealed box for the two 4” subs in a regular cab OBS F150. Granted it’s not nuts especially with a vintage MTX four channel also running 6.5 components in the doors. Nice and balanced sound on a budget.

[@ashcoleman8866]

One of your best shows yet👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽 truly enjoyed the “apples to apples “ comparison. Gives a more real idea of the options people can have.

[@DIYAudioGuy]

Thanks for watching!

[@starlord2660]

My guess with the distortion is that the smaller speakers react a lot quicker than the 12 inch due to the lighter cone weight. This would translate into less distortion as they have less inertia and can follow the signal much closer.

[@captjack2112]

I Ga a cutting edge system that Kenwood, Kicker, and Polk all wanted articles on but I had no wants for that. So my Subs which were absolute killers were the Dual Competition 10s in their box fired by a Kenwood 1021 amp. But here is the thing Damping factor on that amp was unheard of. It controlled those subs so well that they would make your heart skip a beat. For all the reps from those companies they would sit in front seat of my cougar and when the song came on with immediate thump every one of them scrambled trying to exit as the chest compression was so dang hard. Heck we had a hard time pinning down a metalicca noise until we found the steal rear seat cross member was torquing from the pounding it was taking. Excuse the memory loss but that amp was running around 6-800 watts continuous with peaks over a grand the way we had it set up but Control of those Subs is what made it so deadly. Subs any bigger than 10s start having issues with flex and ability to control the surface which is where distortion rolls in. Like I said sorry about any info I misspeak abioit but it was almost 40 yrs ago. By far the best sounding system those companies had ever heard in the day as it was complete silence at full volume in between songs but man when it was in go mode nothing but absolute pure clean music at outrageous but not obnoxious levels. Clean and Power will always be my choice. Cheers

[@kcmullins6179]

Iv done this test many times simply because I love subwoofers and bass head in general. It's a hobby , 2 yr ago I was designing a system that would fit best for me and something I could run with the fam with me and rip the car apart when they aint. Lol😂. So I started with 2 Sundown Audios SAv2 8s , not just normal Sav2 8s but the spl version with the aluminum coils.. music they hit pretty hard , but spl they walked all over past woofers iv used which shocked me. 140s from two 8s in the trunk on a taramps 4k at 1ohm. Then I ordered the newer Sav3 8s the street versions for music. I got em cheap 280 dollars or so for em both brand new still in box ect. Those sounded better than the older V2s even spl wise it was close. It's just the v3 is better built. Then I ended up ordering X 8s from Sundown and those done better on deep bass , but louder?? Not really.. like normal music the Sav3 hands down sounded best hit harder and was cleaner. The Xs got lower but I wouldn't consider em much louder.. nor worth the upgrade. The Sav3 8s are str8 up mini monsters. Then I went to Sundown xv3 10s which are amazing. Those two 10s will tear things up. Their heavy , their very loud , and almost damn near impossible to blow unless someone intentionally tries to fry em. I had em on two taramp 4ks each one had its own 4k Amp. Bass 4ks , then I went to my trusty old Sundown Zv3 12s I have 4 of them , but I needed room so I just used one. It's a close call but the two x 10s are louder ect... then I done the 15... I got all kinds of em. Hcca 15s , Rockford T2 15s the silver top from 2005 era. Skar vfx and so on. Even Sundown Zv3 15s n a Xv2 15". The 15s each of em was louder n deeper than the rest... but they take way more room... so I just went back to the single zv3 12" thing is a monster

[@joeyholthusen6495]

4-6 1/2 woofers if you installed a base radiators would be a awesome set up

[@DIYAudioGuy]

I think that would be cool.

[@incredifunk]

I'm working on a 10-in with a passive radiator of the same size currently. My thinking tells me I can get nearly twice the sound w/half the power.. & @,½ the price.. @@DIYAudioGuy.

[@vikassm]

Not Fair. For apples to apples you should've compared 6.5s with 4x 12 inchers Great video, Very informative and to the point, Keep 'em coming!!!

[@DIYAudioGuy]

Thanks for watching!

[@drjd2real]

The charts mean nothing. 4 6.5s can't compare to one good 12. I have 4 strong 8s and they don't compare to 2 good 12s. I'm speaking from real world experience. The 8s don't suck at all, but they just will never hang with 12s. My 8s on music maxed out might hit 144db before clipping on a Sundown sfb5000. I also have 2 Sundown x12v3s, and they are louder and move way more air.

[@JoeIsCrazyWillman]

That would be true if he was just comparing SPL, as the saying goes, no replacement for displacement, however that was not the point of this video. The point was trying to determine if multiple smaller drivers is better than one big driver. So using four big drivers would be very dumb for this particular example. Also if you're dealing with limited space, you're not going to have four large drivers. For example there's absolutely no way you can fit four 12s in a single cab truck unless you sacrifice probably all of your seat room, your visibility out the back window, and possibly just the passenger seat in general. If you want big output without a lot of space, you would need to go with smaller drivers in order to fit them in smaller spaces. Obviously a single small driver would sacrifice output, that's why you have to use multiples versus larger drivers. So that's the whole purpose of this video. To compare What you would do with similar space to try to achieve similar output

[@Dan_Hazard]

Would love a comparison between stock subwoofers vs custom or modified subwoofers like from robot underground etc

[@incredifunk]

I'd be down for that comparison myself

[@irzyxelwj]

Same brand for testing purposes, but I'd choose the 12 and just buy a better quality brand. You'll get much less distortion.

[@patrickglaser1560]

I'm glad us old heads still dig bass

[@20hztremor]

Larger subs have more moving mass, and as such typically have a lower Fs, which will allow them to work more efficiently at lower frequencies, particularly when used in ported enclosures. Larger subs also have more cone area, and often, more excursion than the same make and model of sub in a smaller size, which allows the larger sub to move more air. The moving of more air equates to more output or volume, so while a larger sub may be able to get louder at lower volumes, pretty much any sub can produce notes lower than the range of human hearing. The simple fact is that a larger sub can produce these bottom octave frequencies are greater output, so it's louder, or more audible to the listener than a smaller sub would be at the same power input. In short, a larger sub does not play more deeply per se, but it does tend to have greater output at those lowest audible notes. A smaller sub is faster. This is just bs. The speed or detail of a sub (how fast it reacts to changes in the input signal) is a matter of numerous factors, the least of which tends to be the moving mass of the driver. How "fast" a driver is, depends more on several factors of the amplifier, the speaker, and the enclosure in which the speaker is housed. The amplifier's slew rate, damping factor, and dynamic headroom (reserve power, dependant on the quality of the amp's power supply in large part) are factors in controlling the speaker. The enclosure alignment chosen for the sub will have a large effect on the driver's response as well. For example, a ported enclosure tends to have more transient delay than a sealed box, whereas if you want the best driver control, an aperiodic enclosure is your best choice. The speaker itself has several factors that determine it's "speed" as well, the largest of which is motor control, or "BL." The BL of a speaker is the biggest factor in how well the cone movement is controlled. BL is the actual cross product of the magnet field B with the conductor length L. It is not a scalar, but rather a vector. Combine this vector with the current I and you’ll get exactly the force (up or down according to the DC or AC input). But with the way amplifiers are designed, the current I of the speaker is never constant, only the voltage is. It is also not entirely important to know what the force is because is changes so rapidly. In any event, the BL squared divided by the resistance of the voice coil Re in fact gives us a generic force factor in newtons squared per watt. This number is relative for all speakers and the higher the number, the more force a motor can invoke on a cone with the same input power. Its important to distinguish that BL and Re are related much like inductance and Re are. 32Tm over 8 ohms is identical to 16Tm over 2 ohms, namely 128 N²/W. All other things equal (moving mass and cone size in particualr), A higher BL²/Re will increase the sensitivity of the driver which is a generally a very good thing. BL Curve is a graph of the magnetic strength of the speaker's motor structure across the frequency spectrum of the speaker's operating range. In short, a smaller sub is not automatically faster than a larger sub. Which is better; several small subs, or one large sub? Well, this also depends on a few things. We'll assume right off that you have the room for either configuration in the vehicle. What you want to compare is driver sensitivity, which tells you how much sound you get from the speaker (output) per watt of input. Another thing to consider is cone area. Compare cone atea by finding the surface area of each speaker (π*R²) and add the sums together if using multiple drivers. Compare this with the surface area of the single sub, then compare the combined excursions (Xmax) as well. This will tell you the total surface area of the sub(s) along with their excursion(s) and sensitivity, which are the main factors, if using the same type of box for both setups. Typically I prefer to go with the larger sub(s) whenever possible. Larger subs don't play as high as smaller subs. This is also untrue.

[@robertlee4809]

Correct!

[@AjaxSkye]

I have had really high quality 6.5,8 and 12s and 18s. To me, even triple 12s werent as pleasing to me as a single 18. both from the same line up. That said, they were all in boxes made by the same dude, all are all really great options over the stock trash haha.

[@MrJoeygregory]

My buddy, I don't remember the company. But he had 4 hopped up 6 or 8 and subwoofers in the back of his truck. I think they were 6 or 6 and a 1/2. I don't remember, I know. They were competition style. And I told him why he would father doing all that when he could have bought tens or twelves. Until he turned them on, I know. The big wolfers have that deep smack and bass. And all that. But to me I prefer smaller, more powerful. Multiple speakers for the punch. Sure, some bigger speakers and smaller speakers cover a majority of the range of frequency but I've never heard. Consistent on different genres of music of straits, makin. And slapping with those little wolfers. He had actually, they weren't little. I seen a picture of them and the magnet was ridiculous. They were probably about a foot and a 1/2 deep.

[@daumantaszavadskis]

I am a bit sceptic about REW measurements. None of subwoofers played low. WinISD calculations and DATS box tuning showed that all boxes should go at least to 30Hz. I believe REW measurements should be done on way higher power. Other topic, use of WinISD. It is easy tool to learn, but it does not account for room/car gain. In car it is very important. I believe using something like BassBox Pro could yield way better correlation between simulation and measured data.

[@cprllm2012]

Back in my day, we would just throw 4 kicker 12's in a box and throw a couple of punch 250's to power them. With no science, I could get near 140db. I am 50 years old now, so I would like to build a system that I can turn on and off extra amps. That way I can get a good sound on daily drive but have the power to rattle pictures on the walls of houses I pass. I don't need the constant hard hits any more. I remember back in the 90's I moved from Florida to western North Carolina and it was night and day on car audio. Florida was way ahead of North Carolina on car audio. My systems made me famous where I live now. These mountain people never heard bass like I had! The very first night I drove around in this city, I was playing Mr. Bombastic. Two hot chick's were besides me at a traffic light. I looked over and the passenger was saying something I couldn't hear. I turned the music down. She said " if you let me ride with you, I will suck your----!" I knew right then that I would love this city! Of course, I let her ride, btw! She exceeded expectations of what she said! I never saw her again, though. My systems kept my back strong for years! Now, I just want great quality sound with the option to make it thunder!

[@DIYAudioGuy]

I remember those days.

[@almetej29]

The single best video ever on this topic. End game.

[@DIYAudioGuy]

Thanks, I really appreciate that. But I don't think this is the single best video on the topic. I think I need to make a couple of more trying out even more subwoofers. Pair of tens versus a single 15, that kind of thing.

[@carrizzle9586]

4:55 I like the fact that the cursor was over the 6.5 RMS rating the entire time he was talking about the power handling. 😅 10:20 It looks like the 8s are moving out of phase with each other. Might be the camera playing tricks with the movement. Edit: He did have it showing previously, looked at video again.

[@nosa74]

Love your videos! Keep the coming!!

[@DIYAudioGuy]

Thanks for watching.

[@nickstalhood5380]

Awsome vid!!! I would be curious on how 3 8s would have performed. I personally think you would habe got a tad louder , still a reasonably small footprint, an possibly take advantage of getting closer to the low notes the 12 probably produced.

[@DIYAudioGuy]

These 2 8's nearly kept up with a single 10.

[@jctedsap]

I love my dual 15 EAW subwoofer in my bi-amped living room system. I have some experience with it single 18 Yamaha and some day would love to do a comparison.

[@TheBananaMan4321]

i ran like 700 watts through my single 8" sub pretty much everyday and it handled it just fine.

[@mariovr8416]

If you dampen the res freq. the roll off below resonance is not that steep and to counter the spl drop due to a low q factor use 2 subs in parallel. It basically allows you to build a smaller box but with a lower q factor.

[@DIYAudioGuy]

Sounds like you're describing an isobaric enclosure.

[@mariovr8416]

@DIYAudioGuy not the same but using principals of musical instrument manufacture for tuning driver response

[@mariovr8416]

@DIYAudioGuy you can reduce enclosure size by about 25% and end up with similar q factor

[@jesselee128able]

Love my 2 JL w3 8s. Ford focus hatch. Wouldnt change a thing

[@24-7flounderproblem]

Man you have a awesome channel very educational and easy to follow hats off to you sir ❤and god bless you 🙏✌️

[@DIYAudioGuy]

Thanks for watching!

[@dlcarburetor]

This was cool fun video. Can imagine it was a lot of work. Thanks Justin!

[@DIYAudioGuy]

It was, I actually started on this video back in January. I had to build all the boxes before I could do the head-to-head test.

[@The-Sound-Guy]

Brother correct the Winisd internal setup, many guys say winisid is not accurate & that it tunes to low but in truth its user error for not defining parameters correctly. 🎉🎉🎉 another great video, pitty the drivers are not more closely matched in parameters.

[@subbassrules]

Sensitivity is one of the most abused speaker parameters. Reference efficiency can be calculated and it is actually useful.

[@TheScottishbear]

I have run 18" in my last 3 systems. I just prefer a larger; preferably, high efficiency driver. Presently I have 2 pro audio 18" from Peavey and a 10" from GRS in my glovebox. But I'm thinking like a man from 20 years ago. The new small subs are impressive. Would definitely like to build an spl rig with them.

[@ioncefellfrommars]

2x12 has always been my favorite

[@97gmc97]

Great educational video and all but very disappointed you didn't throw the 10s in the mix... The 10s would be a interesting comparison because of the different builds you could do to compare these all together. Single ported, single sealed, duel ported, duel sealed. If you have enough room for 2 8s you have enough room for a single 12 and if you had enough room for a single 12 you could still squeeze in (smaller) duel 10s

[@DIYAudioGuy]

You can click right here and sign up for patreon and I can make that happen. Https://patreon.com/DIYaudioguy

[@Birmingham_racing]

Personally I prefer 10s for compromise between speed, accuracy and deep bass

[@jayboogie7956]

Preach!!!

[@Guns_N_Gears]

For a sub frequency lets say 80hz, its all about spesker efficiency, total surface area, and X max. A speaker will perform best at its or around its designed frequency. 6" will hit where 15's will but not efficiently nor as loud

[@Bradimus1]

Great video! Though 5-7 db is s pretty good difference! Gaining that much takes a bit change.

[@ZelosZelo]

super user info: I just discovered how speakers play multiple sounds at a time. superposition ;) Its a detail I have always wanted to confirm. Its even more fascinating than I thought. you inspired me to finally look it up. Do you have videos on this level of the technology. Mosfet is amazing but can be nerdy, I think you could present it very well, like this video.

[@onesikm3]

I didn’t catch what your measurement rig was for the measurements you did in rew? Are you just using the Dayton umm6 usb mic ? Or are you using a similar mic connected via xlr going into an audio interface? Reason I mention this is because without the xlr mic and audio interface/soundcard doing anything more than rta measurements is challenging and also inaccurate. There is work around using the usb mic to get a few of the various measurements working in rew but it’s just a lot more work so the best to do is just play pink noise thru rew using the tone generator built in and taking the rta frequency response measurements 💙

[@foggofed9163]

Thank you for your wisdom speaker man 🙏

[@DIYAudioGuy]

Thanks for watching.

[@j0hnny4rc4de]

I just want my car to sound like my head phones. I had an Acura MDX with a single sub (from factory) and it did it's job well. So from my experience, a single sub should be fine for basic listening. I should also say, I like my EQ at 0 all the way across as well.

[@payman.amini1]

Yup! The lower the distortion the better. BUT because it is not a full range speaker it depends. If you want to use a crossover and you want the subwoofer only reproduce lower than 55 Hz sounds then that 12" is in fact better but if you want to let it reproduce up to 100 Hz and higher (which I doubt) then it is worse.

[@DIYAudioGuy]

Yep, it's kind of tricky.

[@sonnyinaz]

1. I have questions! How is a subwoofer box size determined. 2. Despite however box size is figured, I've been told that the bigger the box, the louder the base is and lower bass. Is that true. 3. Does a 100 watt amp have a harder time driving 4 100 watt subs than just one? ie would i benefit from increasing my amp size to a 200 watt? (not to hit peaks with just to ease things for the amp running 100 watts rms. I'm going to be building a box for my old silverado ext cab. I've found that I can squeeze in a 14"x14"x56" box hoping to get more from the 8"s I'll be putting in it.

[@DIYAudioGuy]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/r4uxlox4jqyFgc0si=O610L8gTNir0DQHE kzbin.info/www/bejne/d2rSh6uamaplfaMsi=9RKNehqOe_wp1D3i kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z3Tai6ejeNaIqqcsi=jVR78r1bPA7s6H2i

[@sonnyinaz]

@@DIYAudioGuy Thank you!!!

[@xoxojohnandres4616]

I'm curious about drivers only vs woofers and passive radiators in a similar type test.

[@SpeakerKevin]

It would be nice to measure the output of each box up to to a predetermined distortion level like they do with amplifiers. Say 10% THD + noise.

[@TRONMAGNUM2099]

You didn't show it, but your discount code works on the rap 10 as well. It looks like with the right box, you can make any of them sound good.

[@DIYAudioGuy]

Yep, works for everything on the Savard website.