Lord Soth | DragonLance Saga

[@DLSaga]

Thank you for watching this Dragonlance Setting video. What do you think of Lord Soth? Leave a comment below.

[@StevenMichaelCunningham]

Typical perverted psyche in all it's corruption & violence as there is ever choice law or no law.

[@JamesAdams-nd1td]

I think the story of Lord Soth is a great example of what makes the Dragonlance setting and the stories so compelling and enduring to those who know them. They’re this strange alchemy of epic, mythic tales but populated by very real, very human characters with very human flaws and quirks and personalities (like Flint’s habit of whittling or his insistence on wearing his horse-hair helm even though he’s allergic to horses). Case in point: Lord Soth’s story feels like an Arthurian tragedy, but his habit of projecting his own shame and guilt onto others feels very much like a modern author’s observations about humanity.

[@DLSaga]

Very well said!

[@Lesandira]

Lord Soth is so cool, really one of D&D's most iconic villians. Like a fantasy version of Darth Vader.

[@DLSaga]

Definitely. Thanks for watching!

[@marklemmert6840]

@@DLSaga Fantasy Darth Vader - I totally agree! And, a vastly improved Witch-King of Angmar from a certain point of view.

[@MrMegamike2k]

His time in Ravenloft is equally awesome!

[@CyrisAeon]

That intro about roleplaying when at your job and being yourself at home was powerful. And watching others stumble at it, painful.

[@DLSaga]

Thank you! And thanks for watching.

[@0Zolrender0]

I have Lord Soths Charge as a framed picture. I have had it and displayed it for the last 30 years.

[@DLSaga]

That’s awesome, it’s such a great painting!

[@BobSmith-zq6gz]

Knight of the Black Rose was one of the favorite novels ever. The intro to that book was brilliant. It really set up the dynamic between Soth and Strahd.

[@DLSaga]

The only creature Strahd seemed afraid of too :)

[@robcastleton3359]

Your a veteran? Well thank you for your service!

[@DLSaga]

Yes sir. Thank you for your support.

[@solowolf7418]

Lord Soth was a great character. The only aspect of him that I was disappointed was when Takhisis killed him. I felt that was weak. It felt as if Weiss and Hickman were feuding with Wizards of the Coast and killed him off so he could not be used in other ways such as Ravenloft

[@trieze90]

Agreed. Love the character, not a good ending however. For me at least.

[@DLSaga]

Yes!

[@exusiai]

War of the Souls took place after the Ravenloft books though

[@KazaganthiDrakkor]

Idk I totally see your point, but imagine him and all he's been through. He seemed tired of it all, and told a god to kick rocks. That's a pretty badass way to go, he just wanted to be with his wife and child at the end of it all.

[@solowolf7418]

@@KazaganthiDrakkor That is an interesting perspective but I don’t think Soth ever appreciated his wife or child. When Kitiara Allie’s with him Soth is still consumed by thoughts of conquest and thinks of her as a kindred spirit. 40 years later he has a change of heart simply because Takhisis is absent? It just seems like too much of a stretch to me

[@hrvojejurak5187]

😍 hearing about Soth from your perspective as a veteran and a husband, I see him now in a new light. It's a food for thought - thanks. I've never tought of him as being OP; that might be the result of a D&D campaign, where a couple of kenders (played by 2 brothers) did come across him. And since they roleplayed those kenders perfectly, sir Knight of the Black Rose was rather flabbergasted, bewildered, and vexed by them. Of course, dices were on their side so they refused to die and in the end came on top, leaving Soth shocked & with fewer possessions.

[@DLSaga]

hahah, poor Lord Soth.

[@badgamemaster]

I still remembers reading about Soth and looking forward to the book when he would meet his end... I was surprised when Takhisis restored Lord Soth's mortality in a last hope to turn him to her side again and even then he refused her...

[@DLSaga]

He did have near four-hundred years to think about his mistakes...

[@isaacnoe4574]

For me when Soth’s death at the hands of Takisis was one of the most powerful moments in dragonlance

[@barlotardy]

Love or hate his time in Ravenloft, those novels did a great job of showing just how scary of a man Soth was!

[@DLSaga]

Absolutely!

[@MrMegamike2k]

Ravenloft is just an amazing setting.

[@chicochiggy4976]

I've worked with many ex service men and women over the year's suffering with ptsd and just with settling back into "normal life" and your insights hit home for what they shared with me about their difficulties and brought a new level of jnsight into a character i have always enjoyed. Thank you brother, for your videos on a world i love and also in the one we all share

[@DLSaga]

I really appreciate hearing that.

[@danacoleman4007]

Wow! I was very surprised to hear you share such a personal story. That was pretty amazing and hopefully it can help others. I only recently found this channel and I like it quite a bit because it's reminding me of my love for this amazing setting. Thank you for that!

[@DLSaga]

I appreciate that. Thank you for watching!

[@Emanon...]

This is more of a soliloquists essay than explaining the lore and story of the character.

[@DLSaga]

Thank you for watching!

[@Iansco1]

To extend your Veteran portion. I am not one. But. I have, in my 20+ years in private sector jobs, come across a few who cant adjust to civilian life afterwards. Whether it is realizing that on the job after that their "former rank" does not mean anything in the Private Sector or "how things were done in the military" is not how they are done in the Private Sector. I have seen this in some workers who grew up in the households you referenced too. The career military who "extended" their military into the home. And now their offspring think that "growing up military" is a thing. It is sad because I have seen otherwise good people lose jobs because they cant let go of that military mentality in the PS.

[@DLSaga]

Absolutely! Thanks for sharing your experience!

[@scottburns4458]

Thank you! Your telling and personal insight was just inspiring. Thank you so much for sharing.

[@DLSaga]

It was my pleasure.

[@stevenbutler-i5y]

Soth was not only one of the most iconic characters, he was what most story writers of fantasy novels want to write about. Probably just a supplemental character to begin with, Soths character bloomed into life as a character with such a substantial backstory that he could have easily stole the show away from a beautiful rich story that would have never been seen if Hickman and Wise had turned there focus on Soth. I haven’t read the stories other than the Dragonlance Saga, the first six books, but I have played the Black Rose module. Because of his wonderful story, as a dungeon master and a player he totally stoled the show. My most feared character in D&D was created based on Soth and his story. Let all fear Quinten Garrulous Crackenbone, Blackguard, Anti-Paladin, and now Deathknight in the Forgotten Realms! Thank you Wise and Hickman for creating my favorite antihero!!

[@DLSaga]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

[@travisdonaldstanley6420]

He was kind of OP in the books. He was so OP that they had to under ultilize him in the War of the Lance. It was good to see him flex some muscles in the Legends Book.

[@DLSaga]

Absolutely! I liked him in Lost Chronicles also.

[@ilcuzzo12]

My son was blown away that someone else told a story about Soth.

[@DLSaga]

He has a great story.

[@JoseMolina-ij3xx]

I'm not sure if the books known as "The Knight of the Black Rose" and "When Black Roses Bloom" and "Spectre of the Black Rose" are relevant to Lord Soth in the Dragonlance setting. I remember Margaret Weis said that the Lord Soth in the Ravenloft setting was not the actual Dragonlance Lord Soth. I wonder if the three books are canon or non-canon. I suppose it would make as much sense as comparing Takhisis to Tiamat or Paladine to Bahamut.

[@DLSaga]

DL is shifting cannon. Soth was taken from Krynn and put into Ravenloft, then back again. It upset Weis and Hickman, but they got the character back.

[@ACEC0ND0R]

I kind of wish you would have gone in a little more on his time in Ravenloft. I think there were some defining moments in those stories for Lord Soth, and he was a badass in Ravenloft.

[@DLSaga]

I did review the novels and short story in Ravenloft on the channel!

[@justsurfin5013]

Very good.. Love these. Knight of the Black Rose (title of the book detailing his adventure in Raveloft) show exactly how powerful he is. That book showed he was even more powerful than Lord Strahd.

[@DLSaga]

Great book!

[@justsurfin5013]

@@DLSaga Working on recreating my old book collection in Audiobook format. Once I finish Huma and Kaz books, that book is next (already read I, Stahd at least a half dozen times).

[@Yannimalgr]

thank you for sharing your own personal experiences and insight,much appreciated. Great vid!

[@DLSaga]

Thank you for watching!

[@1973Washu]

The end only came to him when he really accepted and pay for what he had become, he was the only one with the key to release himself , but he was a strict jailer since the honorable part that was left of the knight of the rose he once was in him demanded that he suffer enough to pay for his sins.

[@DLSaga]

That’s the romantic version which I prefer. Did he know Takhisis was going to destroy him?

[@pstandlee]

Thanks for your service, Adam.

[@DLSaga]

Thank you for your support!

[@THOMASTAYLOR-r5p]

Read this book back in 92. My fav👌

[@DLSaga]

I’m interviewing the author this Sunday.

[@akselm.bjerke9490]

Love the intro. Good insight

[@DLSaga]

Thank you for watching!

[@travisdonaldstanley6420]

One thing that is facinating about Lord Soth is his independence. He wasnt the Dragon Queen's little bitch. Ideally the Dragon Queen would have sent him on a Evil Paladin quest to go find Berem Everman. Soth was like, Nope. I'll just stay here and hang out with the Banshees. So he was not a minion, like a Dragon or something. As mentioned in the video, he had demands that needed to be met before he joined the War effort. Also, due to competition with other Dragon Highlords it was not in the Dark Lady's best interest to have Lord Soth go to the front lines and slay bodies during the War of the Lance. Instead he was her body guard. A really great NPC. I kind of like the Darth Vader wavelength. The Players might be able to help him get Redemption if they try hard enough. This will allow the Dragon Armies to be weaker later. I'm find with the stat block in the Shadow of theh Dragon Queen book good to go and a great baseline . I think it's a CR of 19. The Power Word Kill would be instant death and not 100hp. The saving throw would be higher too. Like 23 or something. I would also have him vanish and fly and stuff.

[@DLSaga]

I like the direction you are talking about. I ran players through When Black Roses Bloom and he was very much like Darth Vader from the end of Rogue One. Just a real bad ass. I love the character.

[@doctorstrobe]

0:40 for a second, I thought you were inviting us to consider becoming a Death Knight...

[@DLSaga]

haha, with three easy payments of $666 you too can become a death knight!

[@doctorstrobe]

@@DLSaga Knight of the Black Patreon.

[@williamgordon]

@@DLSagaI’m in

[@socksieboy01]

Love this channel the only critique would be the pronunciation of the names, chiefly two: Astinus (Ass-tin-us), and Dargaard (Dâr-guard) is how my research has revealed they should be pronounced. The way you pronounce it hits my ear wrong. But, I will say I love all your videos save for one. 😎

[@DLSaga]

Thank you for watching, my pronunciation notwithstanding ;)

[@Disgruntled_Old_Man]

uh.... The ending of Lord Soth given in this narration isn't the one they had for him in the 1990's. Shortly after Lord Soth sat there watching Kitiara get attacked by the undead and do nothing to help he was whisked off to Raven's Loft. I believe I still have that book as a matter of fact. Lord Soth was so evil he wound up with his own realm in Raven's Loft that matched his holdings in Kryn. That's what happened to Lord Soth in the 1990's.

[@DLSaga]

You are misremembering how he was taken to Ravenloft. There was a second book as well. Then he was returned to Krynn and died there. It’s the War of Souls trilogy.

[@tarlison2k1]

he was never taken a side in the gods' war, he was always his own man

[@DLSaga]

He was such an imposing figure...

[@LeadFurlong]

I’m reading his book in the Ravenloft series at the moment, I’ve never read any of the Dragonlance books. This helped me understand his backstory more, thanks!

[@DLSaga]

You’re very welcome

[@tomeu9872]

He only truly respects the Master of Past, Present & Future.

[@DLSaga]

Even over Takhisis too!

[@brunomattos]

What an amazing and deep intro.

[@DLSaga]

Thank you!

[@vincenthickey8622]

You should read the Ravenloft novel Knight of the Black Rose by James Lowder.

[@DLSaga]

I have and reviewed it on this channel.

[@brotherj7328]

He's the Ultimate Deathknight.

[@DLSaga]

Absolutely!

[@boom2278]

I loved Soth and his growing love for Kitiara and her final doom at his hand is kinda poetic, but I still felt a pang of sorrow for her :-(

[@DLSaga]

Especially if he would’ve been able to claim her soul.

[@travisdonaldstanley6420]

Excellent writing.

[@daemian2k]

You can tell that the character of Arthas in War Craft has some inspiration from Lord Soth. One of the most interesting stories in Dragonlance. By the way the Raveloft novels Knight of the Black Rose and Spectre of the Black Rose are also two good reads as well.

[@DLSaga]

I have reviews of both of them on this channel!

[@vectorshaman338]

I read Dragonlance as a teenager, became a fan of critical role later in life and picked up dnd. Now smashed both universes together. Draconians and Lord Soth in Wildermount?! My 5 players will get to meet Lord Soth. Look forward to seeing how they will deal with him, and how much they will discover about him. Thx for taking a deeper look into the classics!

[@DLSaga]

My pleasure. Thanks for watching!

[@mbeskow14]

I've been doing some similar. would like to hear a bit more if you can share

[@StevenMichaelCunningham]

Lord Soth 18/100 strength 18 Dexterity 18 constitution 18 intelligence 18 wisdom 18 charisma - 100 out of 100 karma

[@DLSaga]

lol, practically perfect in every way.

[@StevenMichaelCunningham]

@@DLSaga exactly 😮‍💨

[@kurdtpage]

There's also a Forgotten Realms book about Soth

[@DLSaga]

Wait, what?! What’s it called?

[@kurdtpage]

@@DLSaga It's called "Knight of the Black Rose" I think

[@kurdtpage]

@@DLSaga My bad, it was a Ravenloft novel. False alarm, my memory is failing me...

[@theclash24]

Skipped over the ravenloft...that's why I was here ...30% of personal info and a little of Soth

[@DLSaga]

Thanks for watching.

[@theclash24]

i tried@@DLSaga

[@edwardlinke4741]

He was cursed to live all the lives he caused in the cataclysm he let happen

[@DLSaga]

His end was interesting.

[@edwardlinke4741]

@@DLSaga I liked it as well but he kinda got off light if u wanted to base it off the lives lost during the age of despair or cataclysm event

[@chocolateshogun2511]

Was he the only notable Death Knight?

[@DLSaga]

No in the Fifth Age there was one called Ausric Krell, but he sucked as a bad guy, lol.

[@aarachus]

I loved Soth's relationship with Kitiara

[@DLSaga]

He had her back, then began coveting it lol.

[@aarachus]

@@DLSaga lol

[@marklemmert6840]

10:00 - your suggested discussion topic, "was Lord Soth overpowered in the novels?" Not at all! He was perfect. He certainly was much more powerful that most anything else around, but I think that worked out wonderfully in the story telling.

[@DLSaga]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts

[@rcage5625]

Your insights into military life is a fascinating take on Lord Soth, an aspect of his character I hadn't thought of before. Very interesting, thanks for sharing! I'm also curious about the Darth Vader connection: How much of Lord Soth's character was cemented in our imagination thanks to the artwork of Keith Parkinson? I mean, Star Wars characters have an instantly recognisable silhouette which, iirc, was by design. Each character has an iconic look and instantly recognisable silhouette, an idea i think we can see in certain Dragonlance characters, particularly Raistlin and Lord Soth. These two also share deeply flawed personalities yet are totally relatable despite or because of them. I'm slightly disappointed by the removal of Soth from Ravenloft. I enjoyed that crossover and was dismayed to learn the Death Knight's inclusion into the Demiplane of Dread was a hotly contested matter. I try to accept and move on, but Soth's fate represents or reflects a schism that I wish I never knew about. Part of me suspects the passions of the saga's very creative minds have hurt the series, holding it back to this day. Or maybe I'm reading into it too deeply, just surprised a setting like Dragonlance, a veritable heavy weight as far as campaign settings go, remains a thing of the past when it still has so much to offer.

[@daemonisedone4256]

and with wotc's plans for it ie telling us that everything pre 2014 is non canon now even the novels its only going to get worse.

[@DLSaga]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts!

[@DLSaga]

I am concerned....

[@davidlewis8814]

Why would one not accept his travels to Ravenloft? I loved that book and the place he took in that misty evil world; his seneschal, the were- badger dwarf Azrael (I think). It was great!

[@DLSaga]

I agree, but I can also understand how the creator of Soth (Hickman), would be upset that they took him out of his campaign world.

[@SSquirrel1976]

"It is written in the Disks of Mishakal that evil, by its very nature, will always turn in upon itself. Thus it becomes self-defeating." Soth is a fantastic character and whether it's the story we get in the main novels, Tales of the Cataclysm, his own book, the Ravenloft novels, nothing ever makes him less interesting. I loved Dragonlance growing up, as I was introduced to it shortly after I was introduced to Tolkien. By the time they got to the War of Souls tho, I didn't like what they were doing with the setting and never read them. So Soth is still somewhere in Ravenloft ruling his own realm. :)

[@DLSaga]

That’s fair. Not everyone likes where and how he ended.

[@SSquirrel1976]

@ yeah the way they shifted it to fit what they were doing w the new Saga version of the setting…just didn’t sit right with me it was like they were taking what made the setting cool and different and getting rid of so much of it. I still re-read Chronicles and Legends and was going thru a bunch of the other novels a few years ago but burned myself out a bit. Maybe pick them up again sometime :)

[@Buddy74656]

Thank you Adam.

[@DLSaga]

My pleasure!

[@JayVandemark-v1f]

Favorite villain 🦹‍♂️ episode

[@DLSaga]

Nice, thanks for watching!

[@marklemmert6840]

10:06 - your suggested discussion topic, "should Lord Soth have bowed to Raistlin?" Yes. Here is why. Spring Dawning puts Lord Soth's power in context. The power of the Highlords is established and the top Highlord backs down from him and the reader has got an overall feel for Kynn by then which highlights that Soth is by far the most powerful character to directly appear in Kyrnn that point. This sets up Lord Soth saying "but I bow in the presence of a master" to Raistlin at the Tower of High Sorcery in Time of the Twins. The authors had us on the edge of our chairs so to speak to see which of the two would have the upper hand. There is an interesting bit subtlety to this. Soth says this after describing his magical abilities. His statement could easily be read as Soth acknowledging that Raistlin is a master of magic, but not necessarily stating he thought that Raistlin could defeat him if it came to blows. Then all reasonably doubt is cleared up in Test of the Twins when Lord Soth muses: “I could kill Dalamar-the dark elf apprentice is good, but he is no match for me. His master? Raistlin? Ah, now that would be a different story." In conclusion, I think the "bowing" is an important part of the authors making clear the pecking order. I think they did an excellent job vs. Tolkein who setup endless "Gandalf vs. Witch-King" debates (though I love his work too).

[@DLSaga]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this! You make a great argument.

[@Tovish1988]

Have you read the book "Renegade Wizards" by Lucien Soulban? I'd say it's the best of the newer DL books. It's a mid-quel set before the War of the Lance (Par Salian is a relatively young man but has already passed his test, if that helps nail down the time frame).

[@DLSaga]

I have not. I will look into it, thanks!

[@street1111]

Soth the first death knight

[@DLSaga]

And the beat!

[@blue7lvn245]

Is this the guy kit has on a leash... Lol

[@DLSaga]

Yes.

[@robertgoode6713]

I think soth is probably more a Darth Vader, his Palpatine more in his head than anything else. From my understanding from what I've personally read, including ravenloft, he was anything but penitent or proud of his failures.

[@DLSaga]

His DL appearances were much more personal and introspective than his Ravenloft ones. I think that’s why Hickman was so upset.

[@JayVandemark-v1f]

Favorite villain 🦹‍♂️ episode episode villain 🦹‍♂️

[@DLSaga]

Yes, he’s great!

[@roguedexx938]

Soth was Awesome

[@DLSaga]

Absolutely!

[@bradhilton2283]

I Always thought he was awesome ,In flesh he reminded me of Lemmy or James Headfeild .

[@DLSaga]

haha, Lord Soth in Lemmy's jean shorts...

[@artierandalls6729]

My favorite bad guy

[@DLSaga]

He’s a bad ass.

[@frylock3119]

Love it

[@DLSaga]

Thank you for watching.

[@Donathon-f6f]

I must admit this is not my favorite fantasy series.. besides Tas and the sibling rivals Rastlin and Caramon the rest of the characters were stock straight from oter tales....and even Rastlins heel turn was predictably personally with his anger and jealousy im not sure he would have ever taken the red robes...Tas though was such a unique character.. just saying... good video

[@DLSaga]

It’s all good. Thanks for watching. The setting isn’t for everyone but there usually are elements that appeal to most people.

[@Donathon-f6f]

@DLSaga agree...I had friends ( including my then wife) who couldn't wait for the next book... maybe it's because I personally prefer darker fantasy... Michael Moorcock and his Eternal Champion (Eric Corum etc)...series ... you do have a good channel and I'm going to watch more videos., Peace

[@exusiai]

I loved his Ravenloft arc

[@DLSaga]

Me too!

[@NicephorusDragesses-lj6jy]

first, let me admit that i rarely read other comments, so, if this was already discussed, just let me know… that being said, i did enjoy this video, thought provoking as i had to fight emotions of your personal story…we had a friend of the family that went to vietnam and came back a shell of his former self…divorced his wife, signed off on his kids, and proceeded to drink himself into a pine box…my sympathies… i am curious as to the darth vader/ hell priest (i loathe him being called “Pinhead”…) comparison that you made; i understand the darth vader part, as the characters are extremely similar…but what of the hell priest? vader and soth are two perfect examples of lawful evil, while the hell priest, from the novel and the first two movies; the others are rubbish(!), i feel is at its base true neutral? so, please to explain your comparison?

[@DLSaga]

If memory serves I referenced them in terms of imposing, scary figures, rather than pinhead mimicking any story of Soths.

[@jessicabremer9735]

I am lord Soth

[@DLSaga]

There are worse people to believe you are I suppose.

[@stephenmarshall8367]

So how long have you been single now??? 23/10/2023....

[@DLSaga]

Thanks for watching

[@LeadFurlong]

Lol what

[@stephenmarshall8367]

@@LeadFurlong notice he didn't answer the question???

[@switters8679]

jc the personal story is not needed.

[@DLSaga]

Thank you for watching.