Intel’s Last Stand? Upgraded Mac Pro 2019 vs. Apple Silicon Macs

[@dmug]

For anyone curious, here's the link to the Anker 250w charger. I'm not getting commission, I just like the product. bit.ly/3VaNdxb Also, I said bus speed and I meant RAM speed late in the video.

[@SamKuul]

if something goes wrong regarding thermos. well, X spots the mark

There’s nothing funnier than 5 year old, 10,000$ Macs being “end of life”

[@alanmay7929]

its definetly not end of life lol!!!! who are you to even say that?!

[@theoddgamer7147]

Not at the end of it's life..

[@RATsnak3]

@@alanmay7929end of support for Intel Macs is pretty much here

[@dmug]

My solace is I only paid $6k for it new, which was still about $2k too much.

[@knotthemstudios]

Mines still has a 1 year warranty with apple so it’s no where near end of life

[@KrishnaDraws]

Props to you for lugging the Mac Pro to various locations. That must have been a workout.

[@dmug]

Ha, yep. Sorta my thing for b-roll, it’s makes for an odd dichotomy between nature and technology

[@savagepro9060]

2:30 So much alcohol, no wonder the CPU got drunk and sat idling on the BENCH . . . Mark!!

[@dmug]

I like alcohol.

[@checkmychannel5092]

Older macs are really hindered by the garbage cpu from intel , even the xeon are having abysmal muti core performance , we were screwed by intel for years with its stagnant improvement.

[@dmug]

Intel was good until it wasn't. Apple stuck by them as even in 2019, AMD was a second class citizen on the laptop front. Some of the pain was self inflicted by the ultra-thin Johnny Ive books and its telling that when Apple redesigned the Macbooks for Apple Silicon they got thicker. That said, the Zen 2 in 2019 was during the tectonic shift where AMD caught up and passed into as the Ryzen 9 3900X for about 1/5 the cost is faster than the 12-Core Mac Pro 2019. The Threadripper 2000 series weren't quite up to what the Mac Pro 2019 ended up being but I'm guessing Apple could have shipped a $3000 Mac Pro with 4-5 PCIe slots and we'd all been happier.

[@checkmychannel5092]

​​@@dmugIntel cpu were actually not that good even before their downfall , its just that at the time the only x86 competitor AMD is so weak which made intel looks decent in comparison.(That's why Monopoly is so bad.)They didn't really make a good cpu generation since sandy bridge everything after it just had small incremental jump. On the contrary arm microarchitecture especially apple have been making rapid inprovement over the past 10 years , even before M1 , the apple A11 from 2017 already have higher ipc than a skylake core ,which is running at under 2.5 GHZ, Apple could have done the transition much earlier ,but because of the compatibility issues, apple waited for a few more generations until their performance lead could offset the performance lost cause by running a translation layer .

[@Aaronage1]

@@checkmychannel5092+1, Intel won by default between 2011 and 2020. It’s telling how quickly they fell behind once AMD got a semi decent product to market 🙂 I think Apple wanted to transition sooner than they ultimately did. With hindsight, it’s easy to see signs of that in products like the 2018 MacBook Air. Everyone blamed the weird fan choice on trying to go too thin, but I think that’s rubbish. It seems more likely that the 2018 Air was originally intended to ship with a fanless A12X/Z SoC and got switched to Ice Lake late in development (hence the bodged fan 😅)

[@scootutube3]

@@dmugVery true, reminds me of how apple for me were good until they were not.

[@Mbro-dq2do]

I can watch your Mac videos all day. Happy Thanksgiving bro.

[@dmug]

Thanks, you too!

[@severusgoose]

was not expecting to hear popular as the intro for a mac video but what a nice suprise.

[@dmug]

There was this song, by Huey Mack - popular, made use of Popular as a sample. So I recreated the track. Seemed fitting since Wicked is the number #1 movie out right now. There’s certain unlikely songs that just have parts that grab you as hip hop head, popular is one of those songs.

[@firisrozley5768]

Once Apple decided to end OS support for the last Intel-powered Mac Pro, this machine may end up having a new life as an overpowered, overpriced Linux gaming machine.

[@Dave102693]

And that would be awesome tbh

[@JAKOB1977]

Got the Mac MIni M4 (entry 599) Getting Cine R24 Single 180 Multi 960 GPU 4005 Geek6 Single 3948 Multi 15.060 OpenCL 37.877 Metal 57.641 And its sipping like 40 to 45 watt, thats kind of mindbogling

[@dmug]

Those cpu numbers are bonkers for the price. If I didn't have my Mac Pro 2019, I'd probab;y just get the M4 Pro variant base model. My work provided M4 Pro makes M1 Max feel dated. Seems like the M4 is just in a different league.

[@wiintend07]

Something something, "X marks the spot, but not the hot spot of the CPU". I tried.

[@donkey9455]

Ditched the Dual CPU 5.1 last year and build my last Hackintosh, even if someone would donate a 2019 Mac Pro I wouldn't take it. Looking forward when Microsoft will supply Apple Silicon compatible Windows.

[@dmug]

As much as I would like that as I type this from my M1 Max, I wouldn't hold my breath. The amount of work that it's taken to get Asahi Linux to where it is has been pretty extra-ordinary.

[@formerlycringe]

@@dmug I think there's a genuine chance. The predatory Qualcomm X Windows licensing deal ends either the end of 2024 or in 2025. It'll allow Apple to re-introduce Boot Camp to Apple Silicon devices and it'll also allow for MediaTek, Samsung, Broadcom, and Nvidia (apparently?) to make a proper Win11 arm64 PC for non-qualcomm PCs

[@ProtoFalcon07]

Literally what I did after being at a crossroads for my next main rig; Built an AMD 5700X-based (now a 12th-gen Intel-based) Hackintosh, for a little over $800 USD. However, I'm still keeping my dual 5,1 for as long as possible-especially since I occasionally use it for a lot of legacy stuff. I probably would've gotten a base 7,1, if they normally went for anything below $1400 USD...3 years ago. 🤣

[@JAKOB1977]

It looks to be the higher tier M4PRO model 4:00 M4PRO binned (12cores) is around 3800 in single & 20.000 multi M4PRO (16 cores) is around 3900 single & 22.500 multi The biggest reason for M4PRO series is the GPU aspect, and to an extent also if you wanna encode, as M4PRO got a few more encode engines.. Thx for the video and the compare values.

[@dmug]

Just double checked, and it’s 12 core, just the base model. There’s generally some level of discrepancy, so unclear why mine is a high performer.

[@Krumboh]

Man, I'm really enjoying this video of you-both how are you're talking and the context behind it. You seem like such a likable person. You've definitely gained a follower here. Keep up the awesome work, and greetings from Bavaria!

[@dmug]

Thank you, been trying to make more "fun" videos instead of dwelling on Apple's lack of upgrades lately. Also, last year was in Bavaria, and was rather taken with Rothenburg. I'd go back to Germany in heartbeat as I drove across it into the Dolomites, and then the Swiss Alps, would like to spend more time there. As a beer nerd, Germany and Belgium are the promised lands for beer culture. The Pacific Northwest of the US (as like many places) has a bit of a love affair with Bavaria, we have a few towns that are done up to look like stereotypical village. Near me is Mt Angel, Oregon and Leavenworth, Washington. In my city of Portland, Oregon, we have not one, but three German style breweries. Zoiglehaus, Occidental, and Rosenstadt.

[@googleevil]

Im in love with your backgrounds ❤

[@savagepro9060]

" Im in love with your backgrounds ❤" Hmm, someone sounds just like P Diddy

[@xPLAYnOfficial]

Funnily enough I would actually give the crown on "most upgradeable supported mac" actually being the 2019 iMac. There is quite a bit of expandability, and though it is incredibly hard to access it there is full CPU and RAM upgradeability. This, coupled with Thunderbolt 4 for eGPUs and other PCIe expansion (which does work), a removable SSD and support for MacOS Sequoia, in my opinion give it much more potential (especially since you can get them dirt cheap for the low spec 4k models). I bought one with a missing screen for $150 shipped with an i3 and 1TB mechanical HDD and 8GB of RAM. Absolute steal, and I plan on embedding that board with eGPU docks and other accessories into the shell of an older Mac Pro. Should be wicked, especially for the price :D

[@jtouch99]

Awesome work! What software are you using for your graphics/visualisation, if I may ask?

[@dmug]

Generally just a mix of Final Cut Pro and Motion. For the graphs, Keynote.

[@starsk13]

I like to see your country side. It’s very nice. Hello from France. I had a MacPro. 5.a with a RX6600Xt. My main use now is game on Window. I work on my M1 Pro Mbp. I love the multi boot on our Mac Pros and the possibility to upgrade pieces. Will use it as much more as possible :) thanks for the video

[@kyledandy6166]

what model Gpu are you using. I had to return my 6800XT because it was malfunctioning. now I keep running into cards that are too long to fit in the case. I would love to finally get rid of this RX 580 and get into some decent looking gaming. Im afraid to invest in another card that is too big. Thanks in advanced, and Happy holidays.

[@dmug]

Just a gigabyte gaming oc 6900 XT, did a bigger run down here kzbin.info/www/bejne/d5mZaqaYpMx5rpYfeature=shared

[@tomasdanielnieto5398]

Imagine if Macs used AMD instead. We would still be getting new CPUs for 'obsolete' model with AM4 and who knows how long ones with AM5 would last

[@dmug]

If I’m not mistaken AM3 and TRX40 both only supported a single generation of CPUs. It’d been a gamble at best :/

[@xPLAYnOfficial]

So no, both of those actually supported more than one generation plus AM4 came out in 2016 so there's quite a lot on the table there. ​@@dmug

[@wileysneak]

the more cores CPUs have less clock speed, so will be slower for most things. you made the right choice

[@dmug]

Due to the turbo, the scores are fairly close in real single core heavy flows so it’d probably wouldn’t be very noticeable, although I’m sure it’d drop the gaming benches a few FPS.

[@TheOriginalCollectorA1303]

Nice, cool to see it has an upgraded CPU! I’m sure it’ll be noticeable compared to the previous 8 core. The M series definitely have more performance for certain tasks, but at least this system is actually upgradable.

[@Dr.Dawson]

I can hear Clint from LGR thinking, “you noob. Don’t show them the paste blob.” Hahahahahaha

[@alienrefugee51]

FFWD to 14:30. Greg really starts to shine.

[@dmug]

That was me trying not burp and just leaving it in.

[@macguru9999]

I bought a 16 core with 384 ram a couple of years ago very cheaply. Its still a great computer although i am just running 10.6.8, 10.9.x, 10.11.x and windows 10 VMs as well as Sequoia...

[@ourafilmes]

Are you running 10.6.8 in a recent Mac Pro? How?

[@macguru9999]

@@ourafilmes In a Parallels VM=Virtual machine. I runs very well on a modern intel mac (not M1/2)

[@dmug]

I always have found VMed old macOS kinda painful, I need to make a video of getting a metric assload of OS Xes on my Mac Mini. I think I could get 10.6 - macOS 15 on it, although sequoia runs like trash on it. That’d be 14 versions.

[@Dave102693]

When is the end date for Intel support and is it worth it to buy old Intel Macs to install Linux?

[@dmug]

I wish I knew when Apple would drop intel. There’s better buys for Linux for price to performance but you also know it’ll be supported as it’s common.

[@Dave102693]

@@dmugoh ok. I was just wondering because I wanna buy an old pc to try Linux instead of buying new hardware due to being very poor

[@bobby3291]

Love your Go Duck T shirt

[@dmug]

UO graduate but getting to be long ago, my watch band is Oregon is well. I think there’s been a few videos where I’m wearing ducks gear, a few items from back when I worked at the bookstore.

[@downtovacay]

I use my Mac Pro 2019 has a media hub and to play PC games. Still solid.

[@janplexy]

Happy with my M4 PRO Mac Mini.

[@dmug]

@@janplexy fantastic computer and with thunderbolt 5 accessories rolling out, good for quite some time

[@IgnoreSolutions]

GCC is aliased to clang in macOS unless you specifically installed a version of GCC from brew.

[@savagepro9060]

the same way Vi is aliased to Vim

[@dmug]

Good to know, I’m not much of a compiled binary sort of guy as web developer.

[@sssloe]

It's a lovely video. I think in general this will be a popular device once it reaches a decent enough price. I'd purchase it for $1200ish, it's still such a powerhouse with all the things native x86 in such a package can do.

[@dmug]

Thanks. Had Apple managed to ship a tower for $3000~ I think it'd been a hit. I really like how many PCIe slots it has but I could have gotten by with 4-5 slots.

[@Jabjabs]

The whole story of Intel vs Apple Silicon is just wild to see simply because Apple did it again - for a third time. When the first really native PowerPC apps turned up in the mid 90's that was when we knew why they ditched the 68K variants.Then it happened again with the switch to Intel where Mac Mini's were pulling up to top end G5 performance. And now it is happening again. While Intel chips can still sort of keep up depending on the work load it is doing it by simply going as hard as possible on their legacy tech. The efficiency at which Apple silicon works is just amazing to see in action. The new M4 mini when put into energy efficient mode will idle at 2 watts! I do not know of any Intel chip that ever got down to that level other than maybe a way behind the times Atom chip. See you try to push the Mac Pro towards its upper limit is such a good way to send it off. You see the best of what it can do while also acknowledging why it got into the position it did.

[@DmitryT-f7s]

Holy sh*t what’s the scenery in the beginning of the video? Where were you filming?

[@dmug]

Cascade Locks, Oregon. The shot of the harbor is just in town, and the shot with the ferry is below Bridge of the Gods, famously pictured in the movie Wild. Most of my videos locations are Oregon or Washington, as I live in Portland.

[@DmitryT-f7s]

@ Great, thank you for the info! Is it safe to live in the city considering the changes in drug restrictions made by the govt?

[@NegativeReferral]

There's Mac Pros from over a decade ago that are still in use. Many are in recording studios, science labs, etc. so how is a 5 year old computer already on its way out? The Intel-M transition is really radical indeed. But will we ever get the option of non-unified, non-soldered memory again?

[@dmug]

That seems pretty unlikely as there’s a pc trend towards bolting down RAM with the ARM64 pcs

[@Dave102693]

In what universe would apple do something like making their devices self serviceable in 2024?

[@saucy_tunes]

I’ve been running a Mac Pro 5,1 fully upgraded for two years now running windows and Monterey. (Thanks for the upgrade guide that helped me a lot) I was waiting for Mac Pro 2019s to reach around 1000$ and upgrade to one of those but honestly this video is kind of a “black pill” for me. I think it would be more wise to get the m4 studio when it comes out.

[@dmug]

Not a bad conclusion. The Mac Pro 2019 was made at the height of Intel’s underperformance. At least the 14900k is competitive with the m4 pro today. At the price of the Mac Pro 2019 currently, you could get an m4 pro and it has thunderbolt 5 meaning a lot easier to get PCIe 4.0 speeds out of an NVMe.

[@diamondblack3776]

With compound, if you make a blob the same shape of the cpu, it spreads evenly (as long as you press evenly on the heatsink). Rectangular blob = rectangular spread.

[@dmug]

Actually not a bad idea, probably will steal this pattern.

[@claytonberg721]

I just ordered a 2019 mac pro to use as a windows machine. Jury's out as to whether or not I trade in my m1 max studio to upgrade my laptop and use the 2019 mac pro as my daily driver. I think the limiting factor for the 2019 mac pro as a windows machine is that it's limited to 305mm. I'm having trouble finding a suitable 6800 xt to fit in it, let alone the 6900. And when does this ARM's race of massive wattage end? (sorry for the ARM pun) A 4090 pulls as much power out of the wall as a fridge. the upcoming 5000 series will be worse. What do gamers do when the 6000 series hits? Do you need to install a tesla supercharger like device just to power your computer? I bought the 2019 to increase my gaming library, because the prices they are selling for now aren't much more than putting together a midlevel PC and because I've always liked it. But ARM has to be the future... Right? The windows platform can't continue to spiral upwards like this.

[@AK-IT]

I too have been shopping around the past week for a Mac Pro 2019 running windows as a gaming machine. Stunning design and appreciate the airflow, cooling, quietness.

[@dmug]

As an M1 Max and Mac Pro 2019 owner, my Mac Pro 2019 is still my daily driver just because of the impressive amount of storage I have attached, I have three 2 TB NVMe, and two 4 TB NVMe and two SATA SSDS (750 GB and 2 TB) . It's just easier to edit video off of it even if the M1 Max is faster. If I had a M3 Max or M4 Max, I'd probably just move my storage to thunderbolt and just stop using my Mac Pro 2019 outside of music production and windows.

[@claytonberg721]

@@dmug I've got an OWC m.2 thunder enclosure to store all of my completely legit movies and the like. Outside the mac studio I have an M1 macbook air basemodel as my mobile office. It's still fine for now, but while they'll still give me trade in value I might as well upgrade to the M4 macbook pro.

[@ikaros4203]

it would actually make sense for PCs to have independent GPU power supplies. might keep down the coil whine issues too.... ARM or RISC-V is 100% the future mainly due to the efficiency of simple instruction sets vs x86 (not sure what it has to do with windows platform, as theres windows for ARM now and x86 runs on M series macs through rosetta translation layers.)

[@mcdjchandler]

Very cool machine, but my M4 pro laptop is where I’m at. I still have a 5,1 12 core to open old sessions and record multitracks

[@dmug]

My work provided M4 Pro is the better machine but 2019 is still my music making machine

[@RoninTekk]

The chassis itself is remarkable quality and design. I think Apple will retrofit M4 Super Ultra into it eventually.

[@Mbro-dq2do]

My M1 Max 32gb RAM and 32 core gpu runs perfectly still. Linux VMs flawless

[@MrArrakis9]

If your going to buy a Chinese cpu don't get a QS variant as they are cpus in the first phase of production and considered Alpha samples - ES cpus are typically the final variant before a CPU moves to retail sampling, Most review samples are ES cpus and are the ones you want to go for when buying from overseas.

[@dmug]

I read the opposite, you want the QS as they're quality samples, near production runs where the engineering samples are the earlier phase.

[@darrenhankner5282]

I am just gonna get the M4 Max Mac Studio for $2000 plus bucks when it comes out. I was gonna buy a used 2019 Mac Pro but I think the M4 Max still wastes a 28 core 2019 Mac Pro.

[@dmug]

Smarter buy unless you have a very specific need. Thunderbolt 5 is a big deal too as it means faster NVMe speeds than a Mac Pro 2019 can achieve off of a single drive. The fist Thunderbolt 5 storage devices are getting 4x PCIe 4.0 speeds (as was expected) so around 7500-8000 MB/s. Thunderbolt 5 basically makes 8k compositing reality. Apple brags 22 concurrent 8k streams on a M4 max but even that's fairly unachievable 2.5 GB/s for 8k30 at Prores 422.

[@DJShawnyD]

Nas - Represent sample @ 1:15 👍🏽

[@dmug]

Yep, I recreate a lot of classic hip hop beats for my background music

[@MalcolmREBORN]

Holy smokes, I own MacBook Pro 16-inch with M2 Max chip and I can’t believe how the performance scores on this gigantic computer are lacklustre. Its skill is triple booting to other OSes natively. That’s it.

[@dmug]

Apple Silicon is pretty amazing. This also was at the height of Intel’s mediocre performance, as AMD started to run away with better performing machines.

[@KleoGroutides]

The 2019 MAC Pro was gimped by Apple on day one, the CPU was power limited by the poor VRM design and Apple was caught out black listing devices in the firmware… they thought engineers outside the company didn’t have the tools to take a look. We hacked the machine the death even adding back Nvidia support and working drivers.

[@dmug]

Black listing devices? Got a link a link handy? I’ve jammed a Nvidia gpu into my Mac Pro 2019 and it worked in windows.

[@KleoGroutides]

@ they blocked all Intel and Samsung enterprise SSD’s, 10Gbe NIC’s… Nvidia GPU’s locked at the OS/driver level. Then you had the T2 fiasco where we saw the PCIE bus being snooped… Apple denied it obviously.

[@wacio]

Want funny comment about paste pattern: "People use X to mark dead unit. V is check mark for OK units."

[@ironhead2008]

In a few years these things will be nice deals once the server people start surplusing these CPUs.

[@dmug]

Already happening, hence the $275, boxes this is still around $2700

[@quademasters249]

For PC's you can get a XEON W powered HP workstation, faster than this new CPU for $350.

[@Hamradiofromabalcony-fw6xe]

Although wine means Wine is not an emulator. I tend to disagree when it comes to the the Apple silicon. Running wine and crossover you have to emulate a x86 processor.

[@dmug]

That is true, Rosetta 2 does do emulation.

[@MrGabrielgn]

You could also have assembled a dual cpu 2690 v4 with a chinese MB for way less than this cpu alone, including plenty of DDR4 RAM and have more performance. Hackintosh on these are easy and very stable.

[@bobmetzger51]

Go Ducks!

[@dmug]

Was at the game today to represent my school. 12 - 0! Been a long time!

[@Phil-D83]

2012 with dual 6 cores was the best one. For heavy use, x86-64 will blow arm out of the water

[@dmug]

Not sure what work flow that is, but as a M1 Max owner, there hasn’t been any I can name any off the top of my head that isn’t VM related

[@Phil-D83]

@dmug 4k video editing?

[@MichaelSaamone]

The GPU is another job for proton

[@EliteObsolete]

Mac Pro 2019 until 2030 ??

[@dmug]

I wish but Apple will certainly drop support before then. :/ it was great that I used my Mac Pro 2008 for a decade.

[@getl0st]

It's kind of embarrassing watching these sorts of Videos 🤦‍♂

[@Pillokun]

Why would anybody want an ARM Mac? U cant even use it for industry standard software in mechanical engineering. Fact is, today it is more like an avg joe machine, as an old x86 laptop from eons ago can run more professional applications than an arm mac/apple device.

[@dmug]

Not sure what software that would be , as Rosetta 2 allows Apple silicon to execute x86 binaries but for software or web development they are beasts. Right tool for the job.

[@Pillokun]

@@dmug if one dont know what software it is then one is not in that sector ie mechanical engineering. Old x86 macs were supported but not the arm ones. photo/video editing and coding the arm macs are good, but many cad softwares dont even work with rosetta. Solidworks does from time to time when it feels like :P catia and nx not so much.

[@hanspeter24]

thermal pattern looks like 🏴‍☠️ flag because you are sailing against apples course of always buying new with your upgrades on the mac pro ✌️

[@PoliticalChad]

Intel is dead

[@dmug]

Perhaps.

[@wuuduu609]

that intel CPU was obsolete at same time as Apple released it, mate... CPU world is somewhere else yet...

[@DannosStuff]

First! 🇲🇽

[@thomasbroker69]

This Mac was a dud before it was even released , if you follow PC chips like a lot of PC builders it was obvious AMD had changed the game with their chiplet CPU design, Intel was on their backfoot but as Apple had put so much time & R&D money into the Mac Pro they had to release it but before that release date they had already started their Apple Silicon chipset, based on a similar AMD chiplet design at the same factory! I said at the time this machine will be dead in a few years, people started to hack AMD hackintosh’s together because their chips were so superior to Intel. The rest is history, I felt sorry for people that paid so much money for these borked overheating Intel machines, they look nice especially with the $400 wheels lol I’ve no idea what this video is about, the machine is a complete waste of time..

[@Dave102693]

The 2022 Mac Pro is an even bigger joke. Just buy a Studio Mac, and use Thunderbolt for all of the other hardware for music, tv/movie production, etc.

[@beanwithbacon]

Maybe it's time to start using real computers and stop supporting fascism...

[@gorofujita5767]

^^^ Mental illness

[@n173w0lf]

wtf hahahahahahahah

[@dmug]

Wat.

[@Dave102693]

Please explain

[@TovarasSanders]

you jizzed that thermal paste like an experienced Pro! Why worry about the screwdriver size after all?