DnD Group DESTROYED By Chick-fil-A | r/rpghorrorstories

[@darkbunny9650]

DM was probably more mad wizard didnt give a shit about getting his order wrong. Than him actually getting the order wrong.

[@davidtherwhanger6795]

That's what I was thinking. Wizard had obviously didn't really care that much about his friends. Probably wasn't the first time something has come up and this was the final straw for the DM. At least that's the vibe I'm getting.

[@StSubZero]

Makes sense to me. I know if I screwed up someone's order I'd be apologizing to hell and back. Either bring a list or keep some contact info! Likewise from the DM's position, I'd forgive the mistake and get over it if it was an honest goof. But clearly Wizard's sour attitude was the issue.

[@ArcCaravan]

​@@StSubZeroI'd probably pay back the DM, at least enough to cover the difference in order price if not all the money given. It's not like Wizard paid for the food out of pocket.

[@shadiafifi54]

I actually thought the problem was over Chick-Fil-A's... you know, more controversial stances. Turns out it's that the order was wrong. But yeah, the Wizard didn't even apologize for the screwup. Though the DM did overreact.

[@ArcCaravan]

@@shadiafifi54 I expected the controversy too after being reminded of it. At least DM admitted to overreacting by punishing everyone over the wizard. Though I'd say lost money is worth more than a tabletop game that can be rectonned.

[@NPC-rq6vn]

Wouldn't be surprised if the Chick Fil A incident was the final straw in a long list of incidents between the DM and wizard.

[@Reina69]

With how rude the wizard was about getting the wrong order? Absolutely

[@GarkKahn]

One particular moment gave me Vietnam flashbacks so yeah, i think so In my story the f sandwich was merely the last incident on a conflict that escalated for around 3 months at my old job

[@kyriss12]

On that note how do you get a chick fillet order wrong? Don’t they only have like 5 items on the menu.

[@RealJacior]

​@@kyriss12They give you the wrong thing

[@ThePlayplay64]

​@@Reina69 I was thinking the same thing. But, I think the wizard is just sick of DM's shit. The way the DM reacted to it and brought the game to an end like that shows lack of impulse control. I feel like everytime things don't go DM's way he lashes out and I'm willing to bet Wizzard is sick of it. However, this is because I've had friends like DM / personal experience so this could just be me projecting. But i strongly suspect DM is a petty person that is unrelenting on things.

[@Theokal3]

Just realized about the Paladin's story: by that stupid DM's logic, Paladins would be effectively unable to fight evil overlords (you know, one of the things you're most likely to do in a DnD game) because technically an overlord is the ruler of his own country and fighting him would go against the country's laws. So yeah I sure HOPE oaths don't work like that.

[@paulman34340]

Depends on the Oath, but frankly I feeling the Picture Tv Tropes has of "Insane Troll Logic" happening. It's from a Webcomic called "Shortpacked" where the INSANE individual in it said the other person they were talking with was a "Hypocrite" for working at a Toy Store and when asked well here's his response! "Money Equals Power, Power Equals Camel, Camel Equals Five Celery Sticks, Five Quid Pro Quo!" Frankly the point of Insane Troll Logic is that it only makes sense to the TROLL USING SAID LOGIC! And being a Troll means EVEN THEY DON'T GET THEIR OWN LOGIC, THEIR JUST HOPING YOU DON'T CALL THEM ON THEIR BULLSHIT!

[@fnparadox1698]

Oaths don't work like that anymore. U dont need a god to be paladin. Oaths can be vary simple as a marriage vow.

[@jellyfishjones4741]

@@fnparadox1698 Even by old Paladin standards it would be BS. You could maybe argue killing the guy was too far (but it's D&D, that's just how it goes). Idk what the addiction is with trying to Catch-22 Paladins at every turn. Probably why they reworked that aspect of them.

[@GarkKahn]

I don't get the whole paladin hate, it's like saying every bard is horny and sleeping with someone else wife 24/7. In that case they don't have time to join the group hence won't join the adventure huh?

[@powrof3]

Imagine offering someone a drink multiple times across 8 months and then getting upset about it when they finally accept it and drink it.

[@iremainteague5653]

Yeah, that's wild.

[@alexandramusilova8148]

If the DM also gave the Wizard a tip and we can assume the spicy thing costs more than the regular one also seems like the Wizard straight-up stole from the DM. That's a pretty good reason to get upset about it, though of course dragging the whole party into it is stupid.

[@donutchan8114]

He also said he hadn't gotten it in forever, that must've been a major let down after hyping himself up for it. I've gotten mega sad when treating myself to something that wound up being not as great as I remembered, or even plain wrong (like sauce less hamburger steak 😢)

[@yourlocalanarchist3299]

@@donutchan8114that’s what I’m saying, wizard was being straight disrespectful right off the bat and didn’t get the right order that the dm payed and tipped for, also the spicys do cost more so wizard did probably just pocket the rest

[@ArcCaravan]

Yeah, definitely makes DM look more like a victim than wizard even with the TPK. At least DM apologized to the rest of the players.

[@RealJacior]

Assuming the wizard got the regular sandwich so he could pocket the change is a wild and psychotic assumption

[@ArcCaravan]

@@RealJacior Your definition of psychotic needs work, unless every suspicion is psychotic by default.

[@alphons1456o]

Oath of Devotion Tenet: Compassion - Aid others, protect the weak, and punish those who threaten them. Show mercy to your foes, but temper it with wisdom. In short, that was bullshit

[@davidtherwhanger6795]

Exactly. If the Paladin doesn't violate their oath, either the general ones in the book or a specific one offered by either the DM or Player and agreed to by both, then there is no loss of powers. This was definitely a DM "Gotcha" moment the DM was waiting to pull. And like the vast majority of "Gotcha" moments, it falls flat on logic and reason.

[@nerdzplay]

I would definitely think morals would outweigh any individual lands laws for a Paladin. Imagine seeing a crime and a Paladin has to open a law book thicker than a Boulder to see if the criminal is in fact, in the wrong in that location.

[@VenathTehN3RD]

@@nerdzplay Same. Paladin oaths - at least the all the official ones I can think of off the top of my head - are based on moral principles, not the law of the land. That's why you tend to see "Paladin of Bahamut who follows the Oath of Devotion" kinds of backgrounds a heck of a lot more than you tend to see "Paladin of King Bill who follows the Oath of Whatever King Bill Says" scenarios. That's kind of the whole idea IMO - they're swearing themselves to a higher calling, and if a law is unjust or in conflict with their oaths, then as far as they're concerned that law is null and void.

[@AtelierGod]

@@VenathTehN3RD that would be the Oath of the Crown subclass.

[@GarkKahn]

I played a paladin with an oath for a lord, but his will was to preach their faith and punish evildoers, nothing said about any law, and even if he followed them he would only obey the one from his territory The "when in rome..." saying would be bs for him to put it simple

[@alphons1456o]

Final Story: The DM shouldn't make up dialogue? Any DM that does run a game for this group is gonna either have a hard time or play the malicious compliance card. Player: "Barkeep, is anything wrong here?" DM: "I AM SORRY! THAT DIALOGUE IS NOT IN THE MODULE!" Player: "Can I get a beer?" DM: "I AM SORRY! THAT DIALOGUE IS NOT IN THE MODULE!" Also, "I hate when DMs think they know more than the folks at D&D". Yeah, because Hasbro and WOTC haven't made mistakes. Speaking of which, whatever happened with OGL 1.1?

[@jrytacct]

*This* So *very* much this. That would be the perfect malicious compliance to their directions. They want a mindless AI to run the module for them? No problem! That's just how he should act then. And the last couple of years in particular have shown just how *terribly* fallible WotC is (and getting worse all the time).

[@tsifirakiehl4250]

WOTC retracted the changes to the OGL. The original OGL still stands.

[@jrytacct]

​@@tsifirakiehl4250 They should never have announced that they planned to revoke it in the first place. They only backed down after a *massive* outcry from the entire gaming community and a *lot* of bad press the world over.

[@somebody4952]

Story 1: that dm commenting about wizard's irl wisdom and intelligence being his dump stat sort of makes me feel like this might've been the straw that broke the camel's back between the two.

[@davidtherwhanger6795]

What I was thinking. This event in and of itself wasn't that big, but it was the umpteenth event between the two. OP may not even be aware of other incidents.

[@DellikkilleD]

funny, Im convinced the DM just blows up about the pettiest shit, and then takes it out on who ever he has 'power' over. No adult behaves this way

[@ArcCaravan]

​@@DellikkilleDWhen an adult can get mad over a board game, they can get mad over being insulted over complaining about something they paid for.

[@shadiafifi54]

Seems like it.

[@AssassinGTM]

​@DellikkilleD what's funny is that you seem to be the only person reaching that conclusion. You wouldn't be wizard would you?

[@DunantheDefender]

Kiiiinda seems like that one group has the modules memorized, and wants to be able to know 100% of what's coming up.

[@Akari-br7ci]

Yeah, so then why do they need a dungeon master at all?

[@zacharysieg2305]

The shape-water story is sorta relevant to something that happened in my own game. Last night, a player asked if he could move a Wall of Force once deployed, since the spell description didn’t say he couldn’t. The rest of us shut that down by politely pointing out that it also doesn’t say he can, and that spells are more often governed by what the book says than what it doesn’t. Another player then pointed out, “whatever you do to the DM, the DM can do to you in revenge,” and we sorta moved on from there.

[@Juju2927]

That's a good response honestly, and I feel like it was the second issue of that story (after Terry insisting to exploit the spell) : the DM not shutting down the requests on the spot. It always feels a bit bad to have something be allowed to do a session, and the next you're told no, without any possibility to change or "compensation". Not saying it's necessary or that Terry should feel justified to make the ultimatum, but I Understand the feeling.

[@davidtherwhanger6795]

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

[@Vythalax]

This is how the DM of my group runs things. If we wanna do something not in the book or bend something slightly to make a plan work we need to be okay with enemies being able to do it too.

[@phatcavy98]

That last story makes me think those players have never run a module before. Wizards does not add allot of dialogue because they have no idea what the players may say or do. Most of the time they give a description of the NPC and a general sense of their personality and the DM has to improve against the players. Personally I'd take that request to be a dick to them and only use dialogue. Any NPCs that aren't in the book don't exist and no matter what the players ask I'd answer with only dialogue written for that scene. That game would derail quickly and as soon as they complain I'd show them the book and say "you don't want me deviating from Wizards work, so this is what you get". However, I enjoy malicious compliance and would derive great pleasure ruining their first CoS adventure.

[@ArcCaravan]

I'd just tell them to by the book and it can DM.

[@Thundarr100]

Dude, you and I are totally cut from the same cloth. I was totally thinking the exact same thing. I would probably start by saying "Are you SURE that's what you want me to do?" "Yes, we're sure." "Are you ABSOLUTELY sure?" "Yes, we're sure." "Are you POSITIVE?" "Yes." "Are you SURE that you're positive?" "Yes!" "Are you POSITIVE that you're sure?" "YES!!!!!!!" "Okaaaaay." Then proceed to play the module without giving dialogue or personalities that aren't written in the module. An NPC is physically described but not given any dialogue? They ignore the PCs. The Inn keeper isn't given any dialogue in regards to renting rooms to the PCs, just the adventure hook? He ignores them when they inquire about a room for rent. They go to the potions shop to buy healing potions. The shop keeper hasn't been given any written dialogue, so he ignores them as they try to buy potions. It can just go on and on and on, until they get sick of not being able to progress in the story.

[@Kingpin1880]

The players in the last story wanted to play a video game, not D&D. Customising and changing the game is part of what D&D is all about. What if they ask a question and the answer isn't in the book? "Error; answer not found." Ridiculous...

[@cambriaofthevastoceans6721]

I'm sorry. My responses are limited. You must ask the right questions.

[@41217beingbored]

That one with offering a drink then kicking them from their house over it? I don't think I've ever heard of anyone offering something with the expectation of the other person to say no. If you feel like they're too young to drink, then just don't offer them drinks. Simple as that. At that point, you just set yourself up for your uncomfortability. Not them.

[@EnraiChannel]

Really wasn't the kind of story I expected. I have no idea how some of these people operate with that kind of logic.

[@nyxxthewry]

The fact that the dungeon master created a gotcha moment that doesn't even make sense like that is just wild behavior, honestly.

[@shadenox8164]

It's not even how the lawful alignment works yet alone oaths.

[@vampire9545]

​@@shadenox8164it is actually. "Lawful good (LG) creatures can be counted on to do the right thing as expected by society". If society states racism vs elves is the right thing, then it is in fact lawful good to be racist and abusive vs elves. The issue comes at the paladins oaths wasn't based on THAT society but a specific gods definition of lawful good.

[@shadenox8164]

@@vampire9545 Except its not actually. For example if a paladin goes to the Underdark they aren't magically going to follow all of Drow law like keeping slaves are they? This was clearly not the law this paladin adhered to. Even a lawful character has limits if they see an unjust law.

[@JoshtheOverlander]

I'm more with the DM than the Wizard on this one. Yeah, the DM overreacted, but only as far as TPKing the party and ending the campaign. If he he had only punished the Wizard, that would've been fine. Regardless, the Wizard was an asshole, having been giving not just the money for the order, but extra for his troubles. He got *paid* to go to Chick-fil-A and get what was ordered, and not only did he bring back the wrong thing, he got petty, dismissive, and disrespectful about it. I've seen comments focusing too much on the sandwich itself, but the truth is that what really set the DM off was how petty and dickish the Wizard was to him. You could literally change what the Wizard was asked to do to any other minor task and the results would've been the same, because the actual takeaway was this: The Wizard is a douchebag. DM acted childish about the campaign, but he was definitely not the biggest problem.

[@ArcCaravan]

Some people seem to think a tabletop game is more important than lost money.

[@zacharysieg2305]

Oh and that (second-to-) last story is something else 😂 Host’s Wife: C’mon, just have a drink! OP: Yeah sure, fuck it. Host’s Wife: [shocked Pikachu face]

[@davidtherwhanger6795]

Personally I think it was the Husband that got nervous about it. Wife didn't care if she offered OP another after the first one. Husband is probably worried about getting reported for giving alcohol to minors.

[@sbloomis]

I don't know. When the story started, I had a bad feeling that the wife might have been trying to get a minor tipsy. The real change did not happen when the drink offer was accepted, nor the second -- it was when she found out the OP had a tolerance. Maybe I am too paranoid and suspicious.

[@phoeberia2734]

The wizards reaction to being told the order is wrong was unnecessary, if it was accidental then normally ppl just "OH SHIT" and check the recipe, aounds like the dude gave the entirely wrong order to begin with probably for the heftier tip r.r Hqd someone do that order something small and try to keep my change

[@RatMan34]

Fr like getting the wrong order especially if you have a craving for it is pretty disappointing but for the wizard to immediately say some shit like that?? I'll be mad asf too.

[@MWH12085]

Paladins,,while lawful good, are not obligated to follow blatantly bad laws. Paladins of Torm are an example of that. You'd get your Paladin powers stripped for NOT doing anything

[@thejack5952]

The DM from the first story had every right to be upset. I mean, he gave the player extra money for the trouble of getting the food and the player got it wrong and had the nerve to tell the DM that there wasn't a difference instead of a explanation on why he got it wrong??? What an asshole and possibly a thief.

[@ArcCaravan]

I predict one guy will comment saying nothing confirmed Wizard intentionally messed up and accuse you of demonizing him. Probably would insult you too and claim DM is the only one to blame for the argument by "being aggro". Personally I agree Wizard was at fault for that jerk behavior, even if it was an honest mistake.

[@RealJacior]

@@ArcCaravan Hi it's me and a messe dup order doesn't make you a thief

[@ArcCaravan]

@@RealJacior Saying it's possible Wizard is a thief isn't the same as saying he undeniably is a thief. The only thing we know for a fact is wizard acted like a jerk over DM's disappointment in the messed up order he paid for.

[@wargriz8213]

As someone who has run CoS, so they want you to literally narrate 95% of everything. There really isn’t written dialogue outside of a few scene descriptions.

[@solsotice6775]

Yeah, all modules have little to no set dialogue to them.

[@wargriz8213]

@@solsotice6775 it’s almost like the pure variety of ways PCs can respond to a situation are limitless.

[@Jean-Luc_Renard]

I think I figured out why I keep watching these. It's just a bunch of lessons on what not to do in an RPG setting. The kitties help too.

[@sherylcascadden4988]

My motivation also. Which I reward with likes and comments.

[@AtelierGod]

That’s not the first thought that pops into peoples minds when watching these videos?

[@davidtherwhanger6795]

Mistakes gives you experience. Experience can give you Wisdom if you learn from it. But a person is truly wise when they learn from the mistakes of others.

[@akmi1931]

Yeah, no. The Wizard was being an AHole here. DM was right to be outraged at Wizard for just not caring. The fact Wizard literally said “there’s no difference” proves he didn’t give a damn when he made the order so it was definitely is F-Up.

[@fmor2779]

I find hilarious that he got wrong the order of none other than the guy who CONTROLS THE FATE OF THE GAME and didn't even owned the mistake nor apologize. Not that I condone what the DM did, I just find what the player did hilariously dumb.

[@Trivial_Whim]

No, I'm with the DM on this. It'd be one thing if the wizard was apologetic or blamed the store or something. But that response? Fuck the wizard.

[@kainslegacy78618]

I appreciate that the first story's DM at least apologized to the party after cooling down. The Wizard, on the other hand, sounds like a self-absorbed douche.

[@ArcCaravan]

Yep. Probably could have avoided the tabletop horror story by just not being a jerk to the disappointed DM who paid for a specific meal.

[@siobhanroberts2329]

As a Canadian, any story about someone getting in trouble for drinking at 19 sounds super weird to me.

[@shadenox8164]

It is rather strange Americans let 18 year olds do basically all the things except drink, yeah. If you think they're old enough to go to war, or sign up for life altering debt then they should be old enough to drink too.

[@g40oz]

The "Drinking" story: I have a hunch that that woman purposely set up the 19 years old. Maybe she was somewhat jealous... 🤷🏿‍♂️ 😂

[@ArcCaravan]

Those players from that last story about modules reminds me of that group that advertised heavy roleplay then mocked and kicked out a player for attempting roleplay.

[@barrackobama2422]

I do not agree with you about the chik fil a story. The DM put in a ton of effort to make a good campaign, he asked nicely for a specific order that he was really looking foward to, and he even tipped. Then he was completely disrespected by a comment that his opinion on the sandwich doesn't matter and he should just deal with it. I can't imagine if one of my friends was this disrespectful to me. The DM even acknowledged he overreacted and apologized to the party. The Wizard bared the vast majority of the blame in that story. The wizard should've apologized for the mistake and maybe even offered to go correct it but he chose to snap at the DM for wanting what he rightfully paid for. I hope that wizard gets an attitude adjustment.

[@lamiahunter]

So true sister

[@jaquanepatterson2537]

hmm yea agreed, ya can't just disrespect a man's hard earned money like that and to be a jackasss about the screw up instead of at least apologizing says volumes about wizards maturity level.

[@idankatz8085]

He ruined a friendship over food. Unless he's a baby, he overreacted

[@fred_derf]

You do understand that Wizard doesn't work for Chick-fil-a, right? He just picked up the order that the DM placed, he didn't make the sandwich. The DM over reacted and "blamed the messenger". Yah, Wizard didn't handle it well but he shouldn't have to take the blame for Chick-fil-a screwing up his order.

[@1kokokala10]

​@fred_derf DM didn't place an order. He sent what he wanted in the group chat, meaning Wizard had to place the order when he got there.

[@Lealeatorio]

About the space ship: One thing i learned in all this years as a forever DM is that if you counting on your players surrendering to progress the story, 9 in 10 times it won't work. 4 of this times you will have a tpk.

[@GarkKahn]

5:42 Damn You just gave me Vietnam flashbacks about a fight at my old job last year with that phrase

[@monikasernek1177]

The players is in the last story - Who hurt you? And secondly - as someone who loves to play around with AI text adventures - Those artificial bastards bug out all the time and in fact screw up stories all the time.

[@jessewilley531]

This actually seems tame by Traveller standards. The time my friends and I tried to play, we all died at least THREE times in creation.

[@TigerKirby215]

Okay so as someone who doesn't normally eat out I can actually sympathize with the DM in the first story. Is it unbelievably childish to TPK the party over a chicken sandwich? Yes, but is it also extremely childish to call someone a baby when they give you their hard-earned money to buy something for them and you get it wrong? Also yes. A little bit of compassion from the wizard could've prevented the whole thing imo, but this is still mostly the DM's fault for throwing a temper tantrum.

[@novishield]

This man oozes that surfer dude energy, and it’s 10/10

[@7thsealord888]

Story #1 - Everyone makes mistakes, but Wizard's general attitude suggests this wasn't a mistake. He just didn't give a ####, so I GET the DM being upset about it. Taking revenge on Wizard ingame I understand (not 100% approve of, mind you), but TPKing the entire Party was a pure d#ck move. Plausible that the DM had issues that had been building up for a while, and the Chick-Fil-A was the last straw. Story #2 - Idiots wouldn't listen to reason, probably expecting to make their Characters superpowered or something. Finally, even their own teammates got sick of their cr#p, and they paid the price. No sympathy here whatsoever. Story #3 - Very simply, a d#ck DM who hated Paladins. Yeah, give this one a miss. Story #4 - I suppose Shape Water COULD be used to drown people who are Slept, but it'd be complicated. Imo, you'd need to be close to target properly and, if so, it'd simpler just to stick a knife in and be done. The Water into Ice thing isn't a bad idea, so I MIGHT allow that, but also think the change from water to ice and back would have to be slow, not instantaneous. Ingenuity in spell usage is to be applauded, but it does sound like there was a genuine compatibility issue here between Terry and the DM. They discussed it, and then there was a courteous parting of the ways. As good an outcome as can be had, really. Story #5 - Really bizarre passive-aggressive thing going on here. The person repeatedly offering drinks gets uncomfortable because OP finally accepted? Must be missing something because, on the face of it, someone there needs their logic seriously checked, and it isn't OP. Story #6 - Red Flags. I understand Players being concerned about the DM taking major liberties with a canned adventure, that's where some RPG Horror Stories begin. But this? Ridiculous. IF the module mentions a cupboard, and the Players check it carefully, the DM then saying, "Sorry, the module doesn't say anything.," doesn't make for much of a game. But if the DM ad-libs, maybe has a dead body fall out on the Players, or have a couple of hostile rats there, or just random bits'n'pieces to check out ..... better game. Yeah, OK, the cupboard COULD be empty, but that is less interesting. .... And, in 40+ years of TTRPGing, I have yet to see a canned adventure that DIDN'T have any kind of gaps or skimped details that a DM needed to fill in on the fly. It doesn't happen. This bunch, why did they need a DM? With those kinds of limitations, they could play out the entire adventure like one of those 'Choose Your Own Adventure' books, and it'd come out the same.

[@schwarzerritter5724]

Shape Water story: Allowing players to ignore limitations of the spells is not creativity, it is, in fact, the opposite of creativity.

[@Juju2927]

Yeah, especially when you use Cantrips often to exploit them as much as you can. My bard uses Minor Illusions all the time either to deflect the attention of opponents in a fight, or to avoid confrontation at all by creating noises he knew he could replicate that would affect the situation.

[@schwarzerritter5724]

@@Juju2927 The limitation here is Minor Illusion having a Somatic component. Anyone seeing the bard will notice he is casting a spell. Just making the hand movements under the cloak is not creativity, someone else making a distraction is creativity.

[@RiveroftheWither]

I don't think it's necessarily wrong to try things like that but ultimately it's the DMs discretion where on the "rules as written vs. rule of cool" spectrum they fall on. Giving "play my way or I leave" ultimatums is definitely not right. Some DMs like rule bending, game breaking shenanigans and if that's the game someone wants to play then that's where they need to go, not try to turn a more rule oriented DM to the dark side.

[@lrogersgaming4373]

What dm should have done in the last story is lead them straight to the bonegrinder mill.

[@lamiahunter]

Nah im on the DM’s side if i pay AND tip for an order only to be called a ‘baby’ for not getting what i spend on i’d be salty as hell, maybe not tpk entire party but def the transgressor

[@RealJacior]

Youre acting like the wizard did it on purpose. Yeah telling him not to be a baby over a sandwhich is harsh, but you're also acting like the Wizard deliberately went out of their way to get the wrong sandwich. And frankly if the DMs first response is tp get into a shouting match for half an hour then TPK the party? Yeah he's probably an immature brat

[@lamiahunter]

@@RealJacior Bro got TIPPED. I dont get tipped when picking up pizzas for my friends when we hang out and I still check the order. He was literally *paid* to ensure the order was right

[@nerdzplay]

I won’t say the wizard did it on purpose, but wizard definitely had the attitude as if he brought food as a surprise out of the kindness of his heart and even paid for it himself. Accidents happen, but don’t call someone a baby because their order is wrong especially if they pay for it AND gave extra money for the trouble

[@RealJacior]

@@lamiahunter I'm sorry, if I was picking up food, you want me to open your sandwich to make sure its the spicy one? Look, you're just going to be belligerent and argue against sense so im not really interested in repeating "Stores can make a mistake and going aggro on your players for it makes you the wrong one" a hundred more times, so pretend I did. Like you're pretending it's all on the wizard

[@RealJacior]

@@nerdzplay He has the attitude of someone who picked up all the food with his gas and car and yelled at when the DM saw it wasn't spicy and told him to stop overreacting. Which it was. The DM could ask for his tip back but he's not entitled to an apology or money back for the sandwich, unless you can prove the wizard ordered the wrong thing on purpose to steal... 40 cents difference in regular vs spicy chicken?

[@Mask0fFate]

Yeah, for the first story, I’ll go on a limb and say everyone sucks here (with “everyone” being Wizard and DM). Wizard was an ass for being cavalier about DM’s order (even if the restaurant screwed it up, he could have at least apologized), and DM was an ass for taking his frustrations out on the whole party (so because one guy was being a douche, everyone has to suffer, lovely).

[@DellikkilleD]

why would he apologize for the restaurant screwing up? What kind of adult flips out like this over lunch?

[@ArcCaravan]

​​@@DellikkilleDAn adult who gave money for a specific order only to get less than they paid for with complaints being met with insults. We don't even know for sure if it was the drive-thru or Wizard who messed up the order.

[@Mask0fFate]

@@DellikkilleD Because when people order food, they kinda want what they ordered. Even if the screw up was on the restaurant’s part, Wizard still picked up the food, and thus it was still his responsibility to make sure the orders were right. Now I’m not defending DM for what he did in the game, that was childish, but Wizard, especially with how he reacted when DM got upset, did not help.

[@DellikkilleD]

@@Mask0fFate nah mate, your buddy grabbing your order isnt responsible for shit. If you wanna be fussy get it yourself. If you are upset with what they gave you, hop in your car and take it back champ. you raise your voice to me, for something like that, Your gonna have a bad fckin time.

[@theyaden]

@@DellikkilleD When the Wizard's reaction was to insult the guy who's order was messed up then tell him there is no difference I think the guy may have owed an apology the same way the GM owed and gave an apology to the other players.

[@derekbowen5820]

Lawful Good is not Lawful Stupid. This is relevant for players of Paladins, and DMs. But let's be honest, if the Paladin had done the whole "I can't interfere because of the laws here" the DM 100% would've stripped them of their powers for not protecting the weak. The DM was being hostile towards the Paladin's character, so best thing is what they did: leave.

[@fmor2779]

Can we just agree that if there is someone's order you should not get wrong is the one from the person who happens to be the DM!? Not that I condone what the DM did, but I find somewhat hilarious that the player didn't even tried to apologize and own the mistake because it can happen to anyone. But yeah, I guess the player could have confirmed everything via message, but still, this whole situation is both hilarious and ridiculous and I hope things get resolved. Plus, I think the spicy version of the sandwich is a bit more expensive, so yeah I wouldn't blame him for thinking the player stole from him too.

[@hunterkessell6070]

I would have suggested that Terry can upcast such a cantrip as a first level spell to stretch spells in such a way.

[@sykune]

Ok that last story, I think players would be upset if the DM actually played curse of strahd by the module, as he could not fudge rolls to save them as they have to roll in the open, seriously did they even check the difficulty of that module.

[@mrbeebs44]

Wizard was being a prick there after getting the order wrong and definitely should have shown some humility. DM took it too far though, but then again after a shouting match like that, getting right back to the game was a mistake

[@RiveroftheWither]

Sounds like DM and Wizard had issues with each other long before this food order problem. Both peoples responses, through ops eyes, sound like piled up spite, pettiness and resentment that no one has bothered to address until this boiling point. I say this as someone who has been in the ops position before (outside of dnd), seeing two friends I thought got along only to realize after a big blow out that what I assumed was good natured ribbinf and mutual teasing was actually them being at each other's throats and trying to one up the other. That they've just always hated each other but put up with it because they liked everyone else in the friend group.

[@tesuniekataren46]

Story 3: That is when the player just keeps using paladin powers anyway, and ignore all GM's complaining that they don't have powers. Or is this just me? Also, Lawful alignment just means your character follows a strict moral code of conduct. It doesn't actually mean they have to follow the letter of the law of the land they are in or from. Ex: A Lawful Evil character might have a code they strictly follow where children and women are not to be harmed, but men are fair game. Or that he can't do violence unless someone else strikes first, but that doesn't mean he can't manipulate a situation into making the other person throw the first swing, letting him take violence as he wanted anyway. Etc. Story 4: This is the opposite of story 3. In this case, the GM is trying to set boundaries and make things more level, so all players can enjoy the game not just "super creative with non-combat spells to kill everything" player. Here, the GM needs to just limit a player, but isn't invalidating them either (unlike the story just before). I think the GM needs to probably just take each case on a case by case situation. Sleep and drowning with shape water, the creatures would (as Doge said) wake up after not being able to breath. They would be confused and disoriented upon waking up, but probably wouldn't completely drown to death before leaving the 5ft space shape water can affect. I would say, they would be coughing and choking and otherwise unable to do much from the treatment. Tricking goblins onto ice formed in water to remove the ice underneath them, perfectly fine idea. But... Goblins should be able to swim, and likely get a dex save to jump to safety before the ice disappeared completely. This is time consuming, but some spells by their nature are just very flexible. This leads to each case of it's use having to be considered. Using shape water to control someone's blood? No. That "blood" is actively under someone else's direct control, much like how most magic can't affect an item actively being worn. To form a bubble of water around their head? Sure, but they could hold their breath and walk out of it... They might breath in on a failed save of some kind, and choke a little? Drown them? No. Maybe some of these actions could be "upcasting shape water" as a house rule? At least this story worked itself out. Story 6: Makes no sense to me. Some GMs do go too far, but they need to have most of the power to actually run the world...

[@Svartalf14]

Terry seems to be a munchkinny power gamer who will stretch the rules beyond breaking point to do what normally takes much more powerful magics to achieve, let him search for a munchkinny DM and get a reality check

[@LucyBean42]

I'm running Curse of Strahd where Strahd's personality is like Carl from Aqua Teen Hunger Force, the warlock had a murder gameshow going on with his patron, missing persons situations, a lost relic... I couldn't imagine running the module without integrating character backstories. I even added a whole new town to play off the changes made to the module.

[@EnraiChannel]

I feel like alignment causes more problems than it helps people with any kind of RP. Almost no table I have played past years have really cared for the alignment other than for an occasional joke.

[@SinnerChrono]

I got no problem if someone wants to eat food from that business. But ive always stood my ground on not buying food from a company that hates gay people.

[@jimmieloop8587]

DM demands: That guy is so full of himself. And there is no D&D....its Wizards of the Coast, so no they certainly do not know better. They want a dummy DM.

[@Floweramon]

I was afraid for a moment that the chick-fil-a story was going to lead to a homophobia story due to chick-fil-a's infamous anti-lgbtq policies. I can't decide if this is better or worse. It's certainly more petty on the DM's part.

[@hakeem2lari]

I feel DM on that messing up the order “stop being a baby” thems fighting words! First wizard gets his and then Chick Fi La!! I seriously take it personally when someone messes up my order and treats it like it’s no big deal.

[@zixserro1]

Sixth Story: I'd love for this group to get the DM they want, only for the DM to then present them with premade characters with prewritten personalities and telling them that any deviation from how the characters should act based on their personalities will result in the character being forced out of the game permanently. Also, if the players don't want the DM to deviate from the story -at all-, that means that they've read through the entire module, and know exactly how it goes from start to finish. If that's the case, why are they even playing it?

[@sherylcascadden4988]

That last group didn't need OP. The player trying to make all the rules already was "leading" the group. They already had someone who could do the job the way they wanted.

[@spaceyfireneko]

The last story, I couldn't imagine my dm strictly following the module and not incorporating our backstories and actions for game flavor. Like...just play a video game at that point?

[@Smily613]

I’m sorry but that chicken sandwich story was just the right amount of petty 😂. Hopefully they can move past it and make amends.

[@symantares9171]

Story 4: Paladins must uphold Justice, not the letter of the law.

[@amitamaru]

I actually got some Chick-fil-A today after hearing that story. I haven't had Chick-fil-A in years.

[@krystlvines]

Don't. They literally fund genocide

[@vampire9545]

As someone who orders out too much over the years, im betting the store made the mistake. And usually based on the location. Just last night they forgot my damn drink. HOW DO YOU FORGET A WHOLE ASS DRINK?! Just check the receipt

[@bengonzalez5215]

The DM wasnt even that upset at first till wizard was being a dick. He was probably hangry

[@AtelierGod]

Cantrips are for the systems intent a level 0 spell and counts as a spell for effects that neutralizes spells like silence, anti magic area or counter spell, not that anyone is going to use it on them.

[@celuiquirevient]

Most reasonable and sanest op in that last one.

[@PrideOfFantasy100]

The first story i can sympathize with the dm. Dude overreacted a ton but Wizard was a jerk for not even just apologizing even if it wasnt his fault. Basically a situation where both sides kinda suck.

[@yourlocalanarchist3299]

I don’t think dm was to far in the wrong on the first one just because wizard was a dick about it right off that bat not only that but dm tipped his friend to make sure he got the right order and wizard just disrespected the most important person at the table

[@nigeltucker4202]

PALADINS STORY-- If you think Lawful in alignment is following the letter of the law, you don't understand alignment. By the same logic, Chaotic would mean you could never formulate or follow a plan because it has laid out structure, that you had to always be in a state of confusion and disorder. SHAPE WATER-- By definition, he could freeze a 5' cube. Only problem is you can't unfreeze as part of the spell, it takes an hour to thaw and you can't freeze water if if any creatures are in the space you are attempting to freeze. Also, its and action so if you cast it, you couldn't use it to unfreeze spots under the goblins as they ran across, even if that was a possibility with the spell. Being creative, like "I want to freeze the 5' square, but only the outside foot is frozen 3' down, i want to leave the 3' square in the center 1/2" thin so whey they try to walk across, it breaks and one or may two fall in. (costing their turn to climb out)". Its still not as bad as the people who want to use Mold Earth cantrip to dig a 50' hole as a pit trap. Description clearly states [Loose earth, excavate and move it along the ground, deposit up to 5' away]. After the first 5' is excavated, how far up would the next 5' need to move to get to ground level? If i understand measurement and math... 5' up would put the top of it level with the earth where the first section was removed. There is no more movement range and it would fall back down. Move 5 feet doesn't mean you can ignore the vertical distance and then move it 5' to the left or right. (I still don't get how people can't grasp this) DRINKING-- I don't know what was going on in the offering persons head. It was okay if the minor drank at your house with her legal age bf but somehow when she drank at home with her legal age bf, (assuming she lives with her bf and not living with her parents at 19 drinking at home) this suddenly became a problem? This sounds to much like a set up to get rid of her. "have a drink, have a drink, finally had a drink, we're not comfortable with you at our house knowing you drink underage". STRAHD -- Go play a video game, that's what you actually want. / Turnaround: DM could have said, "okay, but you don't get to deviate from the story in any way. I'm going to tell you where you're going and when, and what to do and say to get exactly what the book says. You'll get to roll your dice and fight on your own but I will control your characters in every other part of the game to make sure you are playing right." Addition: how would the players know unless they all read through and know the module by heart. And im SURRRRRRRRRE there's going to be no metagaming on the players end right?

[@the_markoman]

Shape Water Story: Terry definately is better off looking for a group that allows a bunch of homebrew and less focus on rules. But I think his best bet would be to look for a different game system entirely.

[@Warriormon87]

Modules don't even HAVE written dialouge. They sometimes have dialouge guidelines, that is it.

[@doan2300]

This is why I'm unsure of my alignment these days. I always saw myself as lawful neutral because as an autistic person, order and stability is important to me. However, more and more actual laws and authority keep causing disruption and harm to me and others, to the extent that I come across as rebelling against them. Not as extreme as this case, but, idk, maybe I don't understand the alignment system

[@Keiji555]

Ah, the "Lawful Stupid Paladin" DM, that thinks that Paladins are just mindslaves to Laws, whenever they come into a different land. Lawful could mean a code of conduct the person may have, or upholding the beliefs of their own temple. I've had a Catfolk Paladin who had to play ruthless, backdoor politics during a siege, because all the different factions would be more interested in trying to take power, manipulating events, and such, like the Dwarf that put his forced behind the mages, after the Paladin spent over 78 hours trying to convince the Mages into cooperating, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Unfortunately, the Fighter was just muscle, the Wizard was a complete idiot that couldn't rub together two braincells, the Rogue was too young and inexperienced, and didn't understand all the politics, being idealistic, the backup fighter was loyal to the Paladin. So the Paladin had to roll up his sleeves, and had to pretty much politically screw over all the other factions, just to fight off this siege from the Dark Elves. Setting up a corrupt priest to be a fall guy, putting a forged letter in the office of an opportunistic leader that detailed how he was going to sell out to the Dark Elves (Which funny enough, the Paladin found that there was a genuine letter there, which in the morning was able to set up an "investigation" to arrest him, threatening to throw the Dwarf over the walls for the stunt with the mages, needing to give the mages an "out" because of the Dwarf's actions, executing the castle steward, and the only one that was willing to cooperate and was on the level was a minor noble who had no voice, because he kept being shot down by all the other factions. The reason he never lost his Paladinhood? Had he not done what he did, all the people in the castle would die, or be tortured in horrid, gruesome ways. Had all the factions cooperated together, then there would have been very few losses. But because of their games, most of those in the castle died in constant attacks, and in-fighting.

[@PrideOfFantasy100]

Man that last story.... At that point dont even use a DM. Just play it without one where you read the module. The whole point of a module is to give you all you should need, not to dictate how you run it.

[@starofjustice1]

I've read plenty of modules for different systems over the years. A lot have had a disclaimer that says stuff to the effect of "You know your group and your world better than we do. If changing details about this makes it work better, change them with our blessing." That's because modules are meant to give a *basic idea* of how to run an adventure. They can't prepare the DM for every possibility. Those disclaimers are basically saying players always do things the DM didn't explicitly plan for. The only way you can run a game like these players demanded is to run it like a Choose Your Own Adventure book, where you get to a point where you stop, and tell the players exactly what the couple of things they can do or say are. At that point, just read some Lone Wolf or Fighting Fantasy.

[@Thenotsotuff]

The last one may have been a group of players who would read the module ahead and try speed running it or something from the sound of it. I don’t see how that could possibly be fun as a player or a dm but who knows

[@KnightsRealm98]

Lawful Good: Believes in a "greater good" mentality, follows a personal set of codes (which *may* be a land's laws, to be fair), and/or values order, all while being actively benevolent. Following a law or code with no thought of doing good is Lawful Neutral, not Good.

[@fangslore9988]

If i were the paladin in that paladin story i'd be like "oh cool i get to be an oath breaker" because oathbreakers are the best paladins imo

[@michaelpomato45]

Wizard should have checked the order before he left Chik Fila . I'm sure Wiz checked his Mexican food

[@DellikkilleD]

eat what you get, and dont say shit.

[@ArcCaravan]

@@DellikkilleD So let people steal your money?

[@RealJacior]

@@ArcCaravan Why are you so determined that wizard stole money?

[@ArcCaravan]

@@RealJacior Why are you so determined that wizard did nothing wrong and is a completely innocent saint that everyone picks on?

[@RealJacior]

@@ArcCaravan I never did? I'm just saying in all the comments that claim he did it on purpose, after getting everyone else's food fine, are really stupid. Because the basis for the argument that he did it on purpose is because... you want him to have done it to steal from the DM somehow? I never once thought he wasn't also an asshole. He's just not one for that, because YOURE MAKING UP SOMETHING YOU DONT HAVE ANY INDICATION OF PROOF OF. And before you say I have no proof he didn't steal, I dont have to proof he didnt do something. That's not how theories work. But im really done having this conversation with a brick wall, so have a life, i guess

[@CallMeKes]

YOU'RE hungry, Doge? I just had surgery and have been on Clear liquids for nearly 3 weeks. I don't eat Chick-fil-A due to their beliefs and bad behaviors but I might even eat there if it was offered. I want solid foooood.

[@SPedneau]

On the paladin story; I've had 1 or two similar incidents playing a Paladin in 3rd edition. The DM either put my Paladin in a lose lose situation or pull some hidden clause after I performed what seemed like the right thing to do to make me lose my powers. You are right to just scoop up your dice and walk out.

[@GrievousFrom]

Pretty sure 90% of the player base know better than "the folks at DnD".

[@nekomancer47]

Totally agreed, Doge. DM definitely overreacted, but it also sounds like Wizard just exacerbated the issue. Like, I’d be a little miffed too if my food order was wrong, especially if it was from a place I really liked but wasn’t able to eat from too often. Even if my friend had been the one to get the order wrong, though, I’d definitely be understanding and forgiving if they just hit me with a simple “oh, sorry. I guess I got it wrong. My bad.” Wizard instead just insulted DM and blew off the whole situation, while he himself certainly got his own order correct. Bet he would have treated things differently if DM had been the one to get the food and ended up getting his order wrong. Still no excuse for DM to demolish the whole campaign and punish the other players. But people who are hangry and insulted tend to be rather impulsive and not make the most level headed decisions. All that to say, both those guys are assholes in this situation

[@kamorikioko]

That last dm should have agreed to one session more session and just read the book out loud to them, and whenever a player tries to talk to someone eithwr stare silently at then or read out the description of any information thats listed. Nothing would have been achieved by this other than the amusement of malicious compliance. 😂

[@ketrava0425]

You know?I thought when Wizards of the Coast floated the idea of having an AI run your game without AG.M that it was ludicrous but I guess there are tables out there who want that

[@nividicus]

Shape water is both a cantrip, and a spell. You need a focus to cast it, and it is featured in class spell lists 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@criticalchai]

The DM put work into a cool homebrew, made sure they had a good time and everyone was having fun. The wizard made as little effort as possible and showed his appreciation of the DMs efforts by telling him to just take it and shut up. Honestly I'd be furious too. I wouldn't TPK the party but I guess he was done and wanted it concluded. I dont think the DM will ever run a game for wizard again. maybe in time he will run something for the rest of his friends but it sounds like wizard is out. Honestly If I had a friend screw up my food and at the least didn't say sorry I would question the friendship. That isn't something childish to get over. Now we are only hearing one perspective of the story and annimosity could have been growing between the two players or the wizard was forced to go get everyone's food and was pissed and got everyone's food wrong. that could also be the case. In either case it sounds like they need to go their separate ways.

[@alanbear6505]

If you don’t want someone drinking in your home don’t offer them alcohol.

[@termitesc.aardwolf3644]

I was expecting the Chik Fil A story to be about the DM of the group boycotting the restaurant because he's LGBT and his group getting it anyway so as revenge he TPKs the party.

[@newbienoah9461]

sometimes the mundane is the most plausible

[@IronLordEXO]

Chick-fil-A ain't even that good bruh. Now if it were Popeyes, I would absolutely end a campaign over their sandwiches 👀 (I wouldn't actually, I promise)

[@EvilDeath66X]

Terry was using shape water exactly correctly. He did nothing wrong except with his justification being mistaken.

[@cg313]

You are right he can freeze it but it says nothing about unfreezing other than it takes an hour to unfreeze. So I don't think he can freeze and unfreeze at will RAW

[@AtelierGod]

@@cg313 If you cast this spell multiple times, you can have no more than two of its non-instantaneous effects active at a time, and you can dismiss such an effect as an action.

[@EM-lk7jw]

The shape water one really sounds like the dm was overreacting. There was def room for compromise and even the player didnt "threaten" to quit. From the dms own words the player though he would be better off finding another group to fit hi style. The last one was an easy solution, when they say dont change a thing. "Okay nevermind, yall can run it yourself"

[@LiteraryDM]

Now that's an effective title. Time to buckle up for a wild ride.

[@timreynolds4785]

Terry and this guy are both fine players. Terry is old school. That kind of thing wouldn't have made a DM blink an eye in older editions. Hell, they'd get RP experience for being clever. It's a flaw of 5e that this simplicity prevents complexity.

[@willlauzon3744]

I had a nazi zombies incident today where one of my team told me pizza is an open faced sandwich and not a pie. It just made me go nuts and the whole thing went tits up fast. First I dont acknowledge "open faced" sandwiches as you need two pieces of bread (or whatever) to.make it a sandwich. Second, when looking at the definition I read its AKNOWELGED as a sandwich. But really. That's like calling cereal a soup or something. Am I the only one who thinks that if you call it a fucking sandwich they are insane???

[@Trivial_Whim]

Oh man, that last story's group have clearly never actually played with someone who did what they're asking. I got pretty close to doing that once as a newbie DM because I wasn't sure how much ab-lib I should put in and it does not work out well. The modules are a guide, not a complete experience.

[@pouse4]

I got a question. I think I ruin my party D&D game, but I'm not sure I'm in the wrong. Long story short, me and party were in this annoying dungeon. You can't walk 20 feet with out triggering something. Around hour 3 a few of the party members were arguing about what to do next. This was going for over 20 minutes. My character didn't have much to offer in said argument. So bored I just absent mildly moved my character piece around the map. The DM notice and claimed I triggered a trap. Which ended up causing a whole party to get killed. Now everyone mad at me. I asked the DM to roll back events before I moved my piece, but he doesn't even want to continue the game due too all the drama. So I'm left with 5 people who were friends with me upset at me for ruining the game.

[@TheTrueLordOmega]

25:58 gave me a laughing fit

[@rimurutempest7367]

Not gonna lie, that first story... I'm kinda on the DMs side. Like, he straight up sent specific orders towards text, I don't think he overreacted either. I think what made the DM end up getting upset over it was how Wizard was replying to the DM. Straight up telling him things like "Shut up and just eat the fucking Sandwich". Like, No Dude, wrong answer. That kind of response is literally how you start problems. Wizard pretty much told DM to stop bitching and enjoy what he got for him. Like, still, no. Everyone paid you money and gave you extra for doing this for everyone, so everyone can have a good night with good food. Wizard acted like a douchebag and I wouldn't even want to associate myself with someone who can't even acknowledge their mistakes, like, why did he try to gaslight the DM instead of saying "Fuuuuck! My bad, bro. I didn't even notice. Should we go back or should we just start the game...-? Here's the tip back, by the way."

[@Evoker23-lx8mb]

Seemed to me more like the Chic Fill-A incident was just the last straw though I may be just giving DM to much benefit of a doubt. Not to mention in the story Wizard didn’t even apologise about getting the order wrong. Wether it was Wizard’s fault or not, Wizard could’ve and should’ve apologised instead of being apparently arrogant about it. Maybe the issue would’ve been fixed if Wizard at least apologised.

[@AlinNightwing]

I think the ship story could have been handled with a sabotage, something blows up doing damage to the ship that is beyond immediate fixer-upper and security teams are rampaging the halls... something to drive the players out, but if they were taking that much time they were just attention seeking anyway, for them to say they never had a chance it was pretty much written in the stars it needed to end that way

[@johncoderre1477]

Story 4: I'm sorry, but the only thing my 3.5e brain can focus on is seething every time he implies a Druid is casting cantrips... That's silly. Divine spellcasters cast orisions, not cantrips.

[@slagarcrue85]

I am surprised no one made this a joke slash reference. Quick do a pelvic thrust put your hand on your hips:. Let’s do the time warp again!😂

[@ravensong13]

"Shape water is not a spell, its a cantrip" So a spell?