The Best and Worst New Classes In D&D - Full Breakdown (Wizard, Warlock, Druid, Rogue)

[@DnDShorts]

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[@kinjunranger140]

Using your logic, I am not going to purchase this until I see everything that's in it.

[@stormbreaker3027]

Are you going to do a review on the Sorcerer soon? Haven't seen any video's on them yet.

[@DnDShorts]

@@stormbreaker3027 when they come out I will do an initial review, and a deep dive when the full text of the book is released (I believe that is due for early August!)

[@stormcry8202]

It's saying that they no longer have rewards available.

[@JBranr]

Who am I to deny the cow god? Backed!

[@Finckelstein]

I absolutely love the "Everyone gets expertise" approach. It just makes sense that a wizard would have expertise in arcana. Or that barbarians whould have expertise in athletics. They should be far better in their respective fields than other characters. Currently a bard with arcana proficiency is just slightly less knowledgable about arcana than a wizard who studied it their whole life.

[@matthewhelmers1426]

A free expertise at first level would almost have been better than a free feat at first level house rule in the 2014 rules.

[@devin5201]

100% It's weird that a Rogue or Bard as the rules are now can be even sometimes better at a skill because of expertise than a character that is supposed to be the pro of that ability, honestly it's not even super difficult to fit a +2 Int bonus into a Bard build if you're willing to make your guy more vulnerable.

[@neptune7042]

i absolutely hate it. thats what proficiency is for. expertise in arcana isnt studying magic, its studying magical lore. it 100% makes more sense for a bard, the class about studying lore, to have more knowledge of lore, than a wizard

[@Finckelstein]

@@neptune7042 Except that expertise is not "knowledge of lore". It's....expertise - a term that expresses profound knowledge and understanding of the subject, not of the "lore" of the subject. I'm sorry but in what world would a bard know more about arcana than a wizard who dedicated their whole life to studying the arcane? That doesn't even begin to make sense.

[@lukaskonecny9992]

​@@neptune7042 I mean when you study something you usually study it's history too. And no, expertise is ... Expertise. Arcana expertise is the overall knowledge of the subject, not just it's history.

[@robobeetlepanzer]

9:04 330 foot Thorn Whip is hilarious: oh, I'll just yank that sniper 10 feet out of his perch and watch him fall.

[@GlacialScion]

"Dragonrider? That'll be 30d6 falling damage."

[@muddlewait8844]

That’d be a good reason for them to keep Thorn Whip as a melee attack.

[@Kirholm12]

Yeah, it's kinda funny how at lv11 the melee variant gets just an additional 1d8 and the caster variant gets up to 10x range on their cantrips 😂

[@Maninawig]

The ranger: I took Sharpshooter so my bow can hit an enemy 300 ft away. Druid grabs a root and whips the target back. "I can still hit it"

[@truenomads1508]

​@Kirholm12 that's code for "melee in wildshape yo, tf"

[@chaosstripe9446]

3:30 I think this Warlock change is specifically for more flavor options. Rather, it sets up an opportunity for the DM to introduce actual NPCs that are story relevant and can be your patron. Rather than it just being a character from your backstory the DM has to occasionally remember exists.

[@williameichenberg4632]

Assuming most of theInvocations stuck from PT7 (and TreantMonk seemed to imply they did), Many invocations got buffed (PotB and PotT, significantly) and you effectively have 1 more than 2014 (2more, but Pact Boons are invocations now). These add up to a significant overall buff.

[@IlaiShoshani]

It could help with that but I think it's just because all subclasses are chosen at level 3 now (in all of the classes).

[@Crazor2000]

personally, i think it's kinda weird. warlocks derive powers from their pact, so having it up in the air what pact you have can be a bit strange. like i made a deal with an entity, but it could just as likely be an zariel as it can be titania and you get to decide at level 3. sure, you can use it to introduce an npc, but that is on the dm. depending on how your dm does story it can also be more trouble to them, since with the old way at level 1, you had to discuss beforehand the nature of the pact and what subclass you picked before you started the game. now it can be up in the air until level 3, so unless your player already has a clear idea of what subclass they want it becomes a bit more difficult to predict which patron they are gonna go for and plan the story around it. Also, the idea of introducing the patron till later could still be done with the old warlock depending on the backstory. you could have it that you made a pact in your dreams or something but don't know the identity, or something like that. I get that they wanted to limit the multiclass dips, by making every subclass only accessable from level 3, but with the invocations now at level 1 they haven't exactly discouraged multiclass dips into warlock... Still, It's not a huge deal, and like dndShorts said, you can just favor it as only receiving the benefits then. it's not a gamebreaker, but flavor wise it can cause a bit of dissonance between the mechanics and the story. personally i prefer the old way of subclasses, but that is just personal opinion and it's fair to like the new way.

[@soldierbreed]

I dont think your sub class should be reflective of you patron honestly. Currently playing in a system where its not the case. And it works just fine

[@phecto]

All the single level dips into warlock can just skip picking a patron and get their power from nothing to. That's good design

[@ShadestheMothman]

Pact boons we’re actually changed into invocations so that’s a pretty significant change

[@taylorsmith9197]

Yeah, being able to get more invocations (according to Treantmonk) and to be able to stack multiple boons to me seems like a good boost. Including some of the changes to the invocations themselves, they changed and improved quite a bit

[@Mark-ki7ic]

Stack pact boons so pact of Chain and Blade and Tome

[@chacepassmore6474]

Also there were a lot of changes to invocations themselves

[@DaniArdalon]

I'm actually psyched about expertise for the wizard. I'm playing one now and feel kinda silly when my arcana is worse than the rogue's because they took arcana expertise.

[@RumpusImperator]

But that means they gave up Expertise in one of the core Rogue functions (Stealth, Thieves Tools, Sleight of Hand, etc) in order to get that Expertise. It seems like a fair trade.

[@happymerlin427]

⁠@@RumpusImperator except that rogues get 4 experience and with the classics of stealth, thieves tools, and sleight of hand it still leaves one for arcana.

[@Kirholm12]

Yeah it was mighty stupid that a baseline wizard could be worse at arcana than some alleycat

[@Kirholm12]

@@RumpusImperator There's no 4th 'core' rogue function, they'd give up nothing in that 'fair' trade

[@RumpusImperator]

@Kirholm12 ...? Investigation (Finding Traps), Athletics (Climb Walls), and Acrobatics are all also core competencies for the Classic Rogue.

[@SkaalKesh]

One huge change I saw that you didn't notice: the ability of Archdruid that removed verbal and somatic components and material components that aren't consumed isn't there anymore. That's a HUGE change. That means when before level 20 druids were basically immune to counterspell and could stealth cast. Now they can't anymore.

[@speedingspoon262]

Good spot! I really dislike this change. As someone who played Druid from level 5 to level 16 I can’t express how unfun it is to be counterspelled and not be able to do anything in response. Yeah I guess I don’t get a turn now. The old Archdruid at least gave them the saving grace that this would not be an issue anymore.

[@seguaye]

yeah, but archdruid is level 18 now, right? considering the epic feats, there might be something you can take that makes up for the nerf even before level 20

[@SkaalKesh]

@@seguaye Archdruid is still the capstone. Also, immunity to counterspell and being able to stealth cast is HUGE. I doubt any epic boon could make up for that. Druids spent the last 15 levels getting screwed by counterspell while not having it themselves. At level 20 they finally stopped having to care. Now they will be screwed by counterspell for their entire career. Infinite wildshapes is good. Immunity to counterspell is on a different level.

[@acephas3]

@@SkaalKesh Yeah, Druids were nerfed hard. For whatever bonuses that were given out, they were balanced inappropriately.

[@rokeYouuer]

For everyone bemoaning counterspell, it's been heavily nerfed, so I don't think it's "the single worst spell to have cast on your character" that everyone currently treats it as anymore.

[@Ardith50]

It sounds like your warlock patron spell list automatically gives you access to those spells instead of just you can pick it for your one spell a level. An extra 10 spells in your repertoire is a nice bonus. I hope the same thing happens for sorcerers too.

[@adambielen8996]

That is the case for the Warlock.

[@noahlebaron729]

There is one change to the warlock that is radical enough for me: Pact Boons can now be taken using Eldritch Adept, which if it's a 1st level feat, means I can finally have the incredibly juicy Blade SAD paladin, Tome Booming Blade Rune Knight, or Chain Slaadpole Abberant Mind sorcerer right off the bat at level 1. If it's a 4th level feat, it's less exciting, but great nonetheless. No more annoying 3 level dips for my favorite features in the game.

[@nyanbrox5418]

If it's not a half feat (renamed to general feat), then by definition it's an origin feat, so yes you can take eldritch adept at level 1 on any class, even if it doesn't get reprinted in 2024 due to backwards compatibility The wisdom equivalent is actually the druid spell that makes a magic stick, unironically that spell may cost a bonus action but it is the wisdom equivalent

[@nyanbrox5418]

Edit, it could get reprinted into 2024phb as a general feat, I am more thinking it isn't even in the book, at which point it would automatically be classed as an origin feat

[@asumax8]

This is what I just did with my Paladin in our new campaign. First level feat was Eldritch Adept taking the Pact of the Blade cantrip. Its been so great

[@TerminalDevastation]

I immediately thought of the Pally with Pact of the blade when I noticed it. I'm really hoping this combination is still here, if only because it'd soften the smite nerf for Paladins as a pretty nice buff (and thematic if it can still deal radiant/necrotic!). I'm hoping its origin feat myself, but it's juicy enough I'd accept waiting for 4th level. I'd be real happy if Pact of the Chain was also an option (it was 2nd level warlock in the UA, so it didn't qualify)

[@SebasTian58323]

Honestly, the arch druid feature is probably the most nerfed druid class feature

[@nyanbrox5418]

It's buffed for every druid except the moon druid I would rather take my second 8th level spell slot and still have unlimited wild shapes thanks.

[@Shadowrendx]

@@nyanbrox5418keep in mind a lot of the subclass features use wildshape though. So the wildfire Druid’s spirit, stars Druid’s starry form, moon Druid’s combat wildshape, spores druids symbiotic entity, and probably others I’m forgetting. So cool, you can spend all your uses to get a high level spell slot back, but then you’re missing out on the core features of your subclass and that’s just kinda shitty

[@GlacialScion]

​@@nyanbrox5418It's giga-nerfed for all but a couple subclasses.

[@thomasshepherd8909]

@@Shadowrendx Not really. Most of the good Wild Shape subclass features are abilities that once activated, remain active for decent amount of time. So realistically, you only need 1 Wild Shape use per fight, which Archdruid will make sure you always do. So taking a long rest then immediately converting all of your Wild Shapes into an 8th level spell slot doesn’t really effect most level 20 Druids, unless they’re a Moon Druid. And for the odd occasion you need another use of Wild Shape during a fight, you can just convert a 1st level spell slot into a use of Wild Shape with Wild Resurgence.

[@bearli]

@@thomasshepherd8909 Spores Druids are really nerfed with the new Wild Shape, because the Symbiotic Entity in 5e gives you 4 Temp HP per Druid Level and buffs your melee weapon attack damage and the Halo of Spores (reaction) damage, which are both close combat buffs, but it only lasts until the Temp HP are used up, which happens fast; I often get to use these buffs only once as is, and with only 1 Temp HP per level this lasts even less long. Using it as a bonus action helps, because then you might at least use it in the turn you start it, while in 5e I can only use it as an action and struggle to benefit from the benefits. So this core subclass feature is nerfed, and if I trade my Wild Shape uses for a spell slot and I can only use it once per fight, this feature basically becomes useless.

[@mightytoothpick]

it makes sense for the wizard to have expertise in intelligence base skills, why the fuck were rogues and bards better at intellegence stuff than the person whos been studying for years

[@captainnyan-nyan2005]

Investigation. Nature. Rogues be outside and hands on kind of class. Survival is the application. Nature is knowing it.

[@RulesLawyerDnD]

Because they study different INT stuff. It take a lot of mental energy to study magic. Think of it like being a lawyer. Study and study because there is always some loophole or something new you can figure out. But most lawyers don't know anything about cars or how to fix a computer.

[@MithrilRoshi]

@@captainnyan-nyan2005 Which is why it was stupid as hell all this time druids could not AND STILL DONT use wisdom for nature

[@iWizardX]

@@MithrilRoshi As i see it, druids do not 'know' about nature, they understand how to work with and around it, they understand what it needs, and what it needs to be protected from, but they don't realy know it in technical terms. The nature skill is about the technical terms.

[@RumpusImperator]

Expertise represents a deep, focused study of a topic, probably representing years of study. And from a balance standpoint, spending that Expertise on Arcana means that they AREN'T good at one of the core Rogue skills. I think it's reasonable somebody who has made that decision is basically on par with the Wizard. Giving Wizards who already have +5 Int Expertise is just going to lead to DC bloat.

[@Rain593]

I wish they kept the idea that Warlocks could choose their spellcasting modifier :(

[@AWizardRed]

Thats never been in the raw, always been cha casters

[@lucasn.e5835]

​@@AWizardRed it was the one good thing they changed in the playtest where they became half casters, but then they reverted it for some reason

[@Rain593]

@@AWizardRed I understand that but it was in one of the UAs and it was the coolest idea. Lock is already the most customizable class, and lorewise makes sense that the connection to their patron could be tied to other aspects of themselves besides cha. And the Wizard/Int Warlock, Pact of the Bladesinger would go HARD

[@theunikronus7204]

@Rain593 Yeah I loved the idea of being able to play an Intelligence based Warlock and multiclassing with Bladesinger or Arcane Trickster or being a Wisdom based Warlock multiclassing with Cleric or Druid. So much lost potential

[@Rain593]

@@theunikronus7204 1000%. As soon as I saw that UA, it became a house rule at my tables. People will whine about it being too strong but who cares. Let your players have fun.

[@KennySchank]

Love your content @DnDShorts. As another person whose favorite class is warlock, I think the warlock receives a lot of additional indirect buffs you don't mention that aren't so much on the nose. For example, because of changes to spellcasting, warlocks have the same spell list as wizards (e.g. find familiar, mage armor, shield, magic missile, polymorph, fireball) plus some additional warlock-exclusive spells (i.e. eldritch blast, hex). Plus, all spellcasters can now cast certain spells as rituals, which hugely helps the warlock's limited spell slot issue. Not only do you now get your first eldritch invocation at level 1 *and* you get up to 10 instead of 8, but many of the eldritch invocations can be accessed sooner than before. A lot of them can simply be replaced by choosing certain spells (e.g. the effects of the Eldritch Sight invocation can be nearly duplicated by simply choosing detect magic as one of your spells and casting it as a ritual). Probably the best change is that since pact boons are now invocations, you can get pact of the blade, pact of the tome, *and* pact of the chain by level 2, and all three pact invocations are buffed as compared to their originals. The spells that come with your subclass aren't just an expansion of your regular spell list anymore-now, you learn them automatically and they don't count against your known spells. Ultimately, my favorite thing about these changes is that it makes it easier to want to single class as a warlock. It used to be a lot more common for people to just dip a level or two to get eldritch blast + agonizing blast or take a level in hexblade so that they can use Charisma as their weapon stat. Maybe people will still do that, but I feel like the class is just as tempting at later levels than it is at early levels now.

[@rekcroom]

By far the best ad spot DC20 has gotten 😂

[@TonyFunsui]

Ez DM Rouge fix, d8s instead of d6s.

[@cosmonauta___]

I'd go crazy and make sneak attack either 2d6 every odd level or always 2x your proficiency bonus seems like a lot, but i'm used to DMing to optimizers, so rogues having a big burst every round would probably balance them, specially since it's all single target

[@TonyFunsui]

Rad! Your table, your rules

[@theowraight3223]

That's kinda out of line for level 1-4, probably better to get that feature at level 9

[@malmasterson3890]

I would just have them jump an extra step at 5th, 11th, and 17th to match the tiers. D6's just feel so core to the Rogue's identity.

[@WorldOfAcala]

How would d8s fix your DM's makeup?

[@larry9705]

I recently tried to come back to 5e after not playing much for about 7 years. I was stunned at how big the game has grown. It was overwhelming trying to study about the contemporary form of the game and also have a real life. I think a series could be made where you break the game down and hit the biggest bullet points, talking about how it used to be and what it is now. One series for classes, maybe a condensed one about races. 10 minutes max (or whatever minimum run time has to be for ads). I could listen to that at work much easier than having to do the actual reading. Certain subjects I would re-watch a few times. I'm guessing I wouldn't be the only one doing that. Helps views.

[@hellkaiser1366]

I love the "burn a spell to use X again" and I love that,is a simple but really cool idea

[@Jaster69]

Rogues in my system already had a feature similar to Cunning Strikes called Debilitations. I plan to later on give the rouge extra attack within my system whilst adjusting their Sneak Attack (now called Precision Attack) to work alongside their version of extra attack without breaking it (as it sucks to miss your one attack as a rogue). I was mostly looking for more features for the Wizard's base class, as it's rather empty (and yes, I know they have lots of spells. Though, every class has spells, they should have a feature that defines them and shows us that they are truly the casters of casters). I was thinking about taking the scribe wizard's idea and kinda making that it's base feature (aka giving them the ability to augment and change their spells such as damage types, ranges, radius, etc). Regardless, Thank you for the video and thank you for making Ryoko's Guide, my players love it dude 💕

[@dnddetective]

Correction: The 2014 Wizard Spell Mastery only worked on 1st and 2nd level spells. Counterspell was never an option. You are mixing it up with the 20th level feature Signature Spells.

[@ChickenSoupMusic]

How come no one is talking about the macro changes to multiclassing and how that hurts martial classes much more than casters?! I think the caster/martial gap is actually getting bigger w/ 5.5. Core martial feats are nerfed and all subclasses / plus a bunch of class features have gotten pushed back farther... Which hurts optimized martials.

[@captainnyan-nyan2005]

Because they are biased on magic. They aren't wizards of the coast for nothing

[@RulesLawyerDnD]

They are still complaining about smite and the ranger. That's why

[@soldierbreed]

If you need multiclassing to bridge the gap thats a bigger issue in its self

[@RulesLawyerDnD]

@soldierbreed multiclassing to bridge what gap? We know that the classes are not balanced and aren't supposed to be. Every class has its own niche or something like it that can fill the role of two classes but not as good as one by itself. D&Ds goal shouldn't be class balance. It has to be game balance. That's so much more important than if a cleric or paladin can do as much damage as a fighter or wizard.

[@aguy9602]

Have you considered looking into Pathfinder 2e?

[@a.z.pantera5577]

As more of spellcasting kind of Druid player, I don't see much issue with the changes to Wild Shape, personally. I almost exclusively use Wild Shape out of combat or for subclasses like Circle of Stars that use Wild Shape for other mechanics.

[@barcster2003]

Actually it's way better for you because you can turn a wildshape into a level 1 spell, summon a companion and later if you don't use them get a 2nd 8th level spell.

[@acephas3]

It’s a garbage can, thru and thru and ONLY valuable if you play a higher level game. At level 8, you can be knocked unconscious with a well placed critical. At best, you have 64hp with wild Shape you have 72 HP, and you are still more likely to be hit, even with the SLIGHT Increase to AC. The class is racing to the bottom.

[@SolidSkow]

Will, you easily do the best sponsor skits on KZbin, but that one was God Tier. Just blown away lmao

[@drowningin]

12:39 as someone who almost always plays a rogue, in ttrpgs and video games this image nearly makes me want to drop the class. I can’t believe this is official art. I feel that way about a lot of art they show. It doesn’t make my imagination race, it makes my face go O_o

[@RoyHobbs-f4v]

... if you think that this purple-haired, politically-woke, eternally-angry "hobbit-kween" isn't knocking-down xer/xis glass-ceiling by jumping out of windows instead-of into them... well then... Yah... this shit wreaks...

[@ilovethelegend]

Quick note on Rogue: With Twelve classes in the book, someone's gotta be number 12 on the power scale. This doesn't mean that the class is bad, the new rogue still delivers on the fantasy of the rogue class and is fun and satisfying to play (At least if it's not too far off the playtest material), but it just isn't as explosively powerful as other new classes.

[@princephantom1294]

This. Treantmonk didn’t say that the rogue is bad, it is definitely buffed, the other classes just started at a better point and/or got better buffs

[@MrDecelles]

Everybody gets the expertise now. It impedes some of the reason to take a rogue. Maybe the subclasses are more powerful.

[@CooperAATE]

Really sick of the "I can't top the DPS charts" convo in a damned TTRPG. If I wanna talk numbers that bad, I'd log back into FF14

[@MiNcEdGaRlIcS]

New ranger. Checkmate. It's JUST TASHA'S, gloomstalker got its first turn gimmick taken away, beast Master got worse, the capstone is 1d10 hunters mark (laughable considering THEY NERFED IT TO PROC ONCE PER TURN)

[@MrDecelles]

@@CooperAATE I always thought the rogue was the skill expert and that was the 'special thing" that was the rogue.

[@Sifter352]

If anything in regards to the wizard, free vortex warp seems fun.

[@lautarocouso398]

Hey dude, i only came here to say your videos are not only very entertaining but also help the community of D&D and TTRPG grow fonder and larger of the amazing worlds we can experience through them, even your adds are fun man! Honestly congrats on the great work, and please know you've made me smile many many times and i thank you for that from the bottom of my heart, anywho...Hope you are doing great and rock on!

[@DnDShorts]

Hey, thanks for sending such a kind message 😊

[@nooneyouknowof]

Bonus points for showing The Sword in the Stone fight between Merlin and Mad Madam Mim! 😂🤙

[@kongoaurius]

The biggest buff to the rogue is being able to use the Nick property, allowing them to attack twice while dual wielding and have their Bonus Action ready to dash, hide or disengage. Basically you can have the swashbuckler subclass with every rogue, because you vould always disengage and have advantage if you wanted to. PD: Also the origin feat is another underated buff, you could increase your hp (tough), have more skills (skilled) or even gain some spells (magic initiated) all of that for free at first level

[@ULTIMATZEKROM]

Not sure if I’d call Druid improved. More class features are nice, but I don’t have good feelings about how wildshape works.

I actually feel really great about it, solved the overpowered state t levels 2-6, improved lategame scaling and made it much more convenient to use. Ability to cast spells in form and more shapes per combat is huge improvement

[@acephas3]

Oh, well all agree, Wildshape is outright garbage, from both a mechanical and ESPECIALLY lore standpoint. I am a 230lb level 8 Druid and I transform into a 600lb Tiger and somehow the Tiger has LESS hit points than me. The Tiger’s HP are the same as the False Life spell. WS is now a bonus action?? Of course it is and should ALWAYS have been that way. But, that doesn’t matter, because Archers are now your arch nemesis. The SLIGHT improvement to AC means nothing. And, at later levels, your +10 HP a+ level 10 is going to get clapped EARLY. One WEAK-ASS Cantrip, and those temp HPs are gone. Now, you look like a fool, because you’re still in your shape and weak asf. Druids look less and less competent with each new addition. You’re better off playing a Nature Cleric.

@@acephas3 Bro you are looking at it all wrong. First off, at level 10 its actually 30 temp hp for moon druid. That's almost the same that spore druid got as action (and almost nothing else on top of that). Also your tiger doesn't have only those hp. It has your whole hp and those temps on top. If you lose them, you do NOT go back to humanoid form, you stay as Tiger. Also it's not exactly slight improvement, almost all forms end at ac 15, 18 is actually quite better, it's like equipping shield and defense style. It's ac of two handed fighter in plate armor lmao. Also your damage with beast attacks (that's all you had before) + elemental fury + that level 15 feature + moonbeam/conjure animals (castable in form!) is gonna be actually really formidable. At level 15 it's beast attack + 2d8 elemental + 2d10 radiant + upto 8d10 thx to moonbeam...and you teleport and have advantage on first attack... Guys this class is lit, you just need more information I feel. And you can refresh those temp hp by just wild shaping again, 3 times in combat and then you can even convert spellslots to gain more ws... That's like possible 15 wildshaoes per day or something...

[@archersfriend5900]

Boy, sure sounds fun to try to dm.

[@ULTIMATZEKROM]

I dunno, actually going off the stat blocks of the animals as if you polymorphed into them still sounds like a better deal. I mean, at level 10, you're likely not transforming into a Tiger (a CR 1 creature), you're transforming into things like an Ankylosaurus, which have MUCH higher hit points than just the Temp hit points you're getting from wildshaping with THIS kind of druid. It's a downgrade, plain and simple.

[@scp5000why]

You're my favorite dnd youtuber Dndshorts, keep up the good work. P.S I used your hexbalde warlock build to bully my DM. (Not on purpose but it worked!)

[@misterdayne2792]

I'm really not sure about the druid nerfs. On the one hand, it's nice to get more uses on a day, and the whole paying with a spell slot is used in many other features from other classes. On the other hand, it's so much more than just stepping on the moon druid's toes. the bonus wild shape was their main feature, the massive hp boost was their defining way of surviving in battle, and now they just get temp hp equal to their level? That's nothing! it's less than what an artillerist artificer can give until level 14, and that's just as a bonus action and renewable. Nobody picks the moon druid for the spells, and all its features and buffs only work as long as it is within melee range. The new moon druid gets a star spangling 3 times more TEMP HP when shifting, meaning only 9 hp for a lvl 3 pc. That's gone within the first or second attack on it, and your AC will never go higher than 18, unless your Shape has better AC. Now, you're a brown bear without those 9 Temp HP, you've lost your thumb to hold on to items and things, and you cannot cast spells with components, even the worthless ones. The reason for Wild Shape is to either get a melee buff or sneak around, and the melee reason is completely gone. The Primal Strike feature gives you 1-2d8 over 15 levels, and the ability to change the nonmagical attacks into Radiant. So good luck if the enemy is resistance to both. I'd rather just be able to punch through it with magic-resistant paws. Then there's the loss of the Elemental Wild Shape, which really connected the Moon Druid to the land and the elements. Maybe there should have been a silvery Lunar Guardian or something, but the Shape was unique and awe inspiring. INSTEAD, you get to teleport around once per turn and get advantage on 1 attack. Again, why bother with Shapes, if that's possible. You don't need to Shape to do it. Just throw a cantrip or fire a bow, get advantage on that 1 attack, and run further away. Finally there's the Thousand Forms vs the "Lunar Form". You can either get a better Disguise Self for free, or deal 2d10 Radiant, Once per turn, with your otherwise useless Wild Shape. 2d10 wont do any difference in battle, and I'd much rather be able to blend in with the massive population and never be found, rather than deal a little more dmg in my Inferior Shape. Remember that this is the Cornerstone feature. Thousand Forms was already nothing major, but 2d10 dmg per turn gives off "Level 20 final feature from 2014" vibes. They massacred my poor Moon Druid, and its unique fighting style is ruined.

[@auronstarglider7369]

There is a solution: you could work with your DM to adjust the moon druid to be more viable. If you are the DM, you can do whatever you want; Rule 0 states the DM is the final arbiter. So unless you're running Adventurers' League for a business, or are playing at an official event, Jeremy Crawford is *NOT* the DM at your table.

[@wintersolace9206]

variant human sorlock wont even need to take levels into warlock. you'd start with 2 feats at lvl 1. eldritch adept and magic initiate: warlock. variant human is already the most played race and now they just made it so much better by giving feats to everyone at level 1 because of origin.

[@AllOutGreatness]

Sure if you use both variant human and 2024 human 😂

[@jamesmattila-hine1133]

I glad that are giving more expertise it was odd that so few got it

[@rickxhoshinji]

Yor from Spy x Family would definitely be an expert rogue.

[@trodin_6063]

Warlock changes id say are pretty significant close to what the Druid got: Change in pact boons to invocations is a big deal, not to mention the fact that most invocations are getting buffed or changed, and you can take feats from invocations, those are all massive changes that fundamentally alter warlocks not to mention we are yet to know what the changes to the pact boons are, we know weapon is close to pact of the blade with extra attack and that chain has new familiar options, mystic arcanum are staying for the looks of it and if we get more than 2 slots later levels that a huge change (as implied by the recover half your pact slots as it implies more than the 2 before)

[@almisami]

I think, flavor-wise, that they should have given Moon Druid the werewolf resistance to non-silvered weapons while wildshaped.

[@shrubninja6444]

That would have been insanely strong. They'd just be better barbarians while also casting spells.

[@rath3074]

@@shrubninja6444at level 18 though

[@shrubninja6444]

@rath3074 Sure, and at level 18 wizards should get sorcery points and metamagic.

[@rath3074]

@@shrubninja6444 me when a feat at level 4 can do just that

[@deffdefying4803]

moon druid still not being the werewolf druid subclass i need 😖 it could be flavoured as moon druids believing that true harmony between beast and man is the acceptance and harnessing of lycanthropy - i.e. the curse that twists you into a synergistic hybrid between beast and man, and that is a transformation undergone under a certain phase of the moon, which itself goes through "transformations" throughout the month into its different phases.

[@xosefontes7163]

2:48 If this changed, it technically means you could stack ray of frost with lance of lethargy (If they can get ray of frost that is) which is a 20ft slow for a cantrip that already does solid damage

[@Zeos-pk3wh]

Also add repelling blast for maximum Dm frustration

[@xosefontes7163]

@@Zeos-pk3wh If you want level 1000 frustration Play as an archfey warlock, the updated version gets free misty steps that get a lot of bonuses, so combined with 20ft slow it makes it nigh impossible to close the gap

[@grr-OUCH]

Rogues are not technically "martial" classes, more of a skill monkey specialist. The new change sounds good.

[@dharmabird1]

Steady aim is huge

[@RulesLawyerDnD]

Expert class

[@grr-OUCH]

@@RulesLawyerDnD Ah, yes, I forgot that name, it is better than my attempt at description.

[@RulesLawyerDnD]

@grr-OUCH I love skill monkey, exploration class, and my favorite the Jerry Rig class.

[@underwarboy5065]

I do prefer the Pathfinder 1e that allows you to really customize the Rogue, they can be super skill monkeys, but they could also be amazing strikers with Knife Master and other subclasses.

[@absolutleynotanalien8096]

A standard deck of cards consists of 54 cards made from thick paper contained within a paper sleeve. The most common deck used for games and gambling is known as the Old Mage deck and features four suits themed with the four essences of magic, each with 13 cards, as well as two wildcards. The name and appearance of the deck varies from region to region, such as the Magician's Deck in Taldor or the Deck of Masks in the Shackles.

[@0-M72-0]

How the hell is this man still able to make each sponsor even more unhinged than the last.

[@benfields8044]

The question I ask with the Druid change was "Why not both?" Let non moon druids get their buffs then let moon druids get the full hp of their transformations. You dont make the least played class more played by making things weaker.

[@Tletna]

The Assassin version of Rogue is for sure weaker now. I don't know if Rogue overall is weaker though. I think you're right that they're just mid. If we're now allowed to apply invocations to other cantrips, why would we still choose eldritch blast? Just for the scaling damage/extra projectiles later on? Some other cantrips have neat effects. I don't know if I like the druid or wizard changes, not fully at least. Seems like sort of nerfs.

[@ilovethelegend]

I think a bunch of the invocations still work on a per hit basis; so EB will apply the effects for every time it hits.

[@theunikronus7204]

Eldritch blast is just so iconic of a cantrip, considering it's specific to warlock, and it still benefits the most from the cantrip improving invocation. Every other cantrip only does 1 instance of damage while Eldritch blast can do up to 4, which means 4 times the bonus damage from agonizing blast and 4 times the push back from Repelling blast. Sure, other cantrip have some cool effects, but 9 times out of 10, it's just better to do the most damage possible. Why slow a creature when you can just kill it?

[@Hey-Its-Dingo]

That is the entire point, you CAN stick with Eldritch Blast, because it has the unique aspect of being multiple attacks, but being able to apply invocations to other cantrips means you have more variety in how you choose to build your Warlock.

[@deffdefying4803]

@@theunikronus7204 because a lot of creatures wont be killed by 42 (4d10 + 20) force damage unless they're already in dire straits. Until they are, give your cantrips extra utility. make the fight a bit more interesting.

[@blakeroyal-gordon811]

While you can’t rate the subclasses, the design ethos of them can be weighed. For instance, the warlock: it seems like part of the subclass redesign was that the subclasses grant you free castings of one or a few flavored spells to the subclass, solving the perceived issue of warlocks having too few slots in a way that doesn’t make them half-casters.

[@ChickenSoupMusic]

Them not fixing rogue DPR shows a certain level of being out of touch with mechanics and a reliance on community surveys etc

[@firnen_]

You can spin this the exact other way too: The community at large not being bothered by DPR calculations shows how out of touch optimizers are.

[@ClassicThermite]

Yeah i feel like dpr should not be the main goal to design around - it should be looked at from a broader perspective too make sure that no class stands out too much (conjure animals for example). I would rather my character accomplish special things and have a nieche in the party. Infact, despite powercreep in most areas. It seems the devs want to keep numbers moderatly low or atleast not increase it too much. The thing that will determine if im right will be the spell showcase, where I expect, or atleaset hope, most top tier spells (these set the bar for top dpr in the game) recieve nerfs

[@violetpatina708]

@@ClassicThermite For real. People will really complain about every amazing improvement to the rest of the class abilities if it does anything besides do more damage. Just don't play lower DPR classes if all you want to do is bonk real good. Besides, rogues are super broken???? Sneak attacking giving up 1d6 at mid to high levels for a different ability isn't a nerf at all... just adds to the toolbox. Our party rogue does more consistent single target damage with steady aim than our barbarian or paladin does. Casters can really only do devastating damage if there are a ton of enemies all clumped together or if the enemies flunk saving throws- it's not guaranteed. Paladins run out of smites but rogues get sneak attack every single turn if they play right. The new rogue ability does not force you to give up your sneak attack dice if you don't want to. The new ranger abilities everyone is now b*tching about too are significantly better but all they care about is DPR. The issue with hunter's mark being a concentration and a BA is the SAME problem barbarians get with rage and that bards and druids get with having 80% of their spells being concentration (but I don't hear people complaining about that). If you aren't creative just say that. If you just want to bonk go be a barb or a fighter smh.

[@5AMACE]

@@violetpatina708 Rogues are only broken if others forget their abilities and spells, they are pretty balanced. Only the base options were 1d6, the better ones cost 2d6, 3d6 or even 6d6 which you will feel no matter what. Barbarians are not good damage dealers, so I can see why the rogue outdamages them, the paladin is weird though, unless you only play around level 1-4 constantly, which would explain why you think rogues are broken. "casters will only do damage if the enemies fail saving throws" yeah, and the rogue only damages if they don't miss and they can activate sneak attack which can be tricky if the martials can't get into melee first round. The new ranger abilities are bad, the "new" features are mostly from tasha's so 4 years old and disappointing since everyone else got new cool stuff and the actually new ones are bad for making you to use a bad first level concentration spell, even at higher levels. It makes you choose missing out on class features or most of your spells, neither is good choice. It's not even an interesting spell, it's quite literally just regular damage without flair or thinking required and not even good damage at that. Especially the capstone ability, changing a d6 to a d10 is not even guaranteed bonus damage and even if it was it's pitiful. It's not just about dpr, it's about forcing the player into a specific playstyle that isn't even unique. Barbarians don't have anything to do with bonus actions besides activating rage (also idk what you mean same problem, like literally explain it to me because the only similar thing is both being bonus actions), beastmasters control their beasts with it so that's 1 round of you not even having a subclass basically (don't even think about your target dying before your next turn or trying to use 2 weapon fighting in general with this spell), bards and druids don't have half their features buffing a bad 1st level spell that make you feel obligated to use them and doesn't trap new players into a bad and boring playstyle. If you don't know how the game works, just say that.

[@violetpatina708]

@@5AMACE Lol I know how the game works and I'm also not complaining about clear upgrades when we don't even have all the information about what will be in the final book. Barbarians have the problem of needing to use a bonus action to activate their main class feature too, and if it drops they also need to waste another turn re-activating it. And you also get a limited number of rages per day- which in casual games with one or two encounters a day isn't a problem, but with something like a dungeon crawl where going in and out of combat repeatedly really limits the majority of your class bonuses and DPR. Barbarians are also most often terrible in every situation outside of combat (at least in terms of stats), and are also almost completely prevented from casting anything at all and get really no benefits from any mage multiclasses due to how rage works. Rangers however, now have multiple free castings of their BA that ALSO give them most of their class utility /in combat only/. With the updated fixes to the class (idc if they're taken from Tasha's- not everyone is able to pay for extra source material) that make them valuable team support players now in every terrain. If they lose their DPR skill they can still cast to support their team where barbarians cannot. If most people play rangers as a ranged class and stay out of the way, they really shouldn't be losing many BA's except the first- and if they don't lose it, it lasts until the next encounter without losing a charge- unlike the barbarian that completely loses a rage slot 6sec after battle is done. I'm not saying rangers are the best class- they're still my personal least favorite. But people moaning and groaning over a positive change in every direction but DPR (which never was the class focus anyway) is a load of nonsense. The themes of the entire update has been adding versatility and encouraging different play styles across the board, mostly by revamping weaker subclasses to be significantly more viable. Like rogues, rangers are mostly meant to be good with single targets and not multiple. Encountering multiple targets is where you would want to forgo your DPR bonus in favor of support and battlefield control in both classes now that the sneak attack can be used for different things and martial classes now get new toys. Different situations call for different types of play, just how subclasses encourage different main styles. A beast master is going to likely use hunter's mark less often by the design of the subclass. Your damage is going to come from throwing your pickachu into battle for you while you support the other PCs with casting. It's a less martial focused subclass, and sort of the equivalent of taking away shilleligh and casting from a druid in favor of being a tiger and tanking more hits. As for the rogues, they're kind of a one trick pony. Hide, then hit. Positioning and steady aim should give you advantage on 95% of turns meaning you should hit more often and crit more often. Also good against mostly single targets and they really suffer against multiple enemies which is why arcane trickster or multiclassing really helps out rogues. The update helps them have a bigger bag of tricks besides hide and stab and rounds them off more, without taking away the crit more often and do a million d6 doubled damage. Unlike the barbarian and the paladin though, the rogue is able to consistently shine across multiple battles in a dungeon scenario because they don't run out of resources. They can deal a million d6 damage no matter if it's battle 1 or battle 6. They're also for the edgy edgelords that want to be batman and kill NPCs in the dead of night. They aren't OP in every situation, but our rogue does so much more consistent damage using the steady aim feature and a bow and staying out of the chaos. Rogues are all about positioning, and thinking they're bad makes me think you either have poor party comp/teamwork or just don't know how to use them effectively. Also this game doesn't make people follow it's rules and never has. If you're so salty about a positive update that we don't even know 100% of the changes in yet, either don't play it, or homebrew the heck out of it like everyone else.

[@greensmurf221]

Playing Circle of the Land druid currently, I've enjoyed the changes. The spell list being expanded helped a ton.

[@LesbianWitchAcademia]

I hate that WotC is focusing more on their own perceived "balance" of the game than on the roleplay and feeling of classes. Changing every subclass choice to level 3 is such a massive fail for Warlock, Sorcerer, and Cleric, and doing it because "waaaah people multiclass too much and it's too powerful" is stupid.

[@Jarliks2012]

I don't mind that warlocks get their subclass at 3rd level. 1st and 2nd level being where your character is delving into the secrets of pacts and dark rituals before making their faustian bargain at 3rd with a patron is cool imo. I mean paladins are still paladins at 1st and 2nd level before they take a specific oath at 3rd level, it feels about the same to me personally and like it when these things happen in game instead of in the backstory or out of session.

[@lucasmeier1578]

The Druid changes are just dump, in what world does it make sense, that i can take the same amount of hits when i turn into a cat, as when i turn into an mamout? Just nah, the rest of the changes is ok but this? Hell nah ;-;

[@edwinvermeulen8187]

Since spell mastery was a 1st or 2nd level spell you could never cast a counterspell anyway. Basicly the feature gives you a more powerfull cantrip of your choice, eg magic missile or with shenanigans like Levitate. But the most intresting will be with synergies with the new subtypes, eg as an illusionist, you can do Phantasmal Force, without having to use verbals and with extended range.

[@TheRewyn]

The more I see of this 'revision', the more I'm glad I moved to Pathfinder 2e.

[@Feanor6450]

I think with druid use the new one for anything other than moon and old moon. Although so far it is just the variant I have already seen from the last UA which means moon druid gets a spell list they can use in wild shape from level 3 and it includes a cantrip which is basically a spectral arrow, pretty nice since spells used to be locked behind level 18. It also gets AC equal to 13+wis so 18 at most levels, a big improvement and at level 6 nothing much changes, instead of it being counted as magical you can now do radiant damage, so normally just as good though technically a nerf and you can add your wisdom modifier to constitution saving throws, very very good as that includes concentration saving throws, making concentration defensive spells far more reliable. At level 10 you essentially gain misty step that also gives you advantage on your next attack roll this turn and can cast it a number of times equal to your wisdom modifier for free and it isn't a spell so it is immune to counterspell shenanigans. At level 14 you can bring another creature with you when you teleport and you deal an extra 1d10 damage on every hit.

[@MrFirefan1234]

The extra damage from Lunar Form got boosted to +2d10 now, but it's once per turn

[@Feanor6450]

@@MrFirefan1234 well most high level forms make 1 attack anyway, the mammoth and various dinosaurs for example, so that is probably a buff overall. It is only a nerf to forms that make 3 or more attacks and there aren't many of those.

[@acephas3]

So, then you have to join a campaign that goes to 14, otherwise it’s a hard nerf to the Druid.

[@Feanor6450]

@@acephas3 nah the ability to wild shape with a level one spell slot from level 5 is too good, for a moon druid that is 15 temp HP and a massive damage and decent AC buff with a single level 1 spell slot, and it only gets better at higher levels while the cost effectively goes down as you get more spell slofs and you don't need to worry about using wild shape for utility because you get so many more uses. Bear in mind by level 11 you are now doing 2d8 extra damage on every hit, that is horrifically high damage for a triple hit form like giant scorpion and still very good for 2 hit forms like the spotted lion.

[@lionelwhiskerknot]

Think I'll stick with the old books. A lot this stuff could have just been added by adding class feats. To me it is another scam to make you buy the books all over again much like I had to rebuy the races on DnD Beyond when they made everything Legacy which no one asked for.

[@wilverine5557]

Totally agree with everything you said! Unfortunately, I think the Ranger might beat out the Rogue after today

[@moriyasanae8130]

feel sad as a moon druid player… i think half or 30% of druid player hopes for a moon druid buff instead of this

[@doomdodo-wu8vv]

It was fun, but definitely doesn't need a buff. One of the players that I play with doesn't play anything else because either are worried it won't be as good.

[@moriyasanae8130]

@@doomdodo-wu8vv wildshape wise moon druid is best, but mechanically not really Btw Moon Druid Barbearian comb is also dead in 2024, because moon druid are literally spell caster now

[@marcelosampietro6424]

@@doomdodo-wu8vv I understand the worries. But if other subclasses are weaker than the moon druid, it’s more beneficial to buff all of them instead nerf what the players like to play. Feels like lazy work to me.

[@doomdodo-wu8vv]

@@marcelosampietro6424 That is a good point.

[@kalanivernon7273]

The only warlock invocations you can get at level 1 are pact of the chain/blade/tome. All other invocations are warlock 2+. They basically removed the pacts as a class feature and made them invocations. So no 1-level dips for agonizing blast/devil’s sight/etc. still just getting a pact at level 1, it’s just an invocation now

[@JAH711]

I’m just not as excited for these “2024” books in comparison to DC20 or anything else I’ve been enjoying like Shadowdark or Mothership. Though I am greatly enjoying 2 campaigns of Drakkenheim via the 2014 rules

[@NovelVanguard]

I couldn’t get into DC20 wish I could but it’s just not clicking for me.

[@JAH711]

@@NovelVanguard There is so much out there, I recommend you check out as many TTRPGs as possible. Many KZbinrs have videos and lots of systems have QuickStarts. I’m positive there is a TTRPG out there for you, even if it’s just 5e homebrew ^_^

[@caiusdrakegaming8087]

@@NovelVanguard Try Daggerheart, it's made by the Critical Role crew and seems to give a lot more freedom than bae D&D does

[@NovelVanguard]

@@caiusdrakegaming8087 Ive been meaning to try it but haven’t found a group yet there are certain things I like and dislike about it. Mostly in character creation gameplay wise it seems pretty good but I’d have to try it to be sure

[@elijahcorcoran394]

So you can turn spell slots of any level into wild shape uses and then turn those wild shape uses into spell slots at 2 spell levels per wild shape use? So basically you can turn 4 level 1 spells into 1 level 8 spell.

[@truenomads1508]

Oooooo that is a secret good ass feature! Well found bud!

[@acephas3]

@@elijahcorcoran394 That’s not as good as it sounds. And we’ll see how many DMs let that happen RAW or not.

[@Lolo1995-R]

I feel that they nerfed Druids 😢

[@gloryrod86]

Only the moon druid and that was needed. Other than that it's all buffs.

[@Lolo1995-R]

@@gloryrod86 how? Less uses of Wildshape equal less uses of every subclass feature. Also at level 8th you cast a concentration spell and Wildshape into a giant eagle with 26 hit Points, or another creature with a lot of hit Points, how having less hit points isn't a nerf?

[@gloryrod86]

@r.9820 let me put it this way, at level 8 you turn in a giant eagle, in 5e you have an ac of 13 and if you take 26 damage you fall from the sky, take damage and land prone. Now you have 18 ac, and 67 hp, and you never fall from the sky. I like the new one better.

[@Lolo1995-R]

@@gloryrod86 I think the comparison is deceptive, most creatures doesn't have range and most creatures with range, attack with disadvantage when you move 80 ft away and 26 hit points is enough to survive multiple hits at tier 2. Also falling from 20 ft is an average of 7 damage barely relevant. I don't see how falling prone is anything if not a benefit when the enemy is attacking you with range. I see the appealing at higher levels because of higher AC but are the less played levels. Also temporary hit points means you have less team work benefits which is really bad in a co-op game.

[@gloryrod86]

@r.9820 first, are you 80 feet up or 20 feet up? If it's 80 you are taking 28 fall damage. Second the advantage of range is the same for both. 3rd, falling prone is relevant because it halves your speed, we can assume if you are flying that you want to stay far, it's hard to stay far with half your movement gone. 4th, the extra ac is really good at all stages of the game and is a huge boom to the new wildshape. 5th, 26 hp goes FAST when your ac is bad, all the beast stat blocks have bad ac.

[@ForgorenWolf]

Are druid wildshapes still determined by CR. NOBODY has brought that up yet in any videos about the new druid and its pushing me off

[@tomfair7261]

I know it's silly, but I hated hearing him use the word "magician" for the druid during the class reveal. The word "sage" is right there guys!

[@acephas3]

@@tomfair7261 Every Druid player hated it. But, that’s what you are to WotC, a nature magician.

[@Kingpsycho02]

Im so grateful for you! i was not gonna watch jeremy talk for over 3 hrs to see whats new!

[@mikenunez8409]

"Look how they massacred my boy." -Moon Druid Players

U actually think it's much more fun now and less unbalanced on lower level, with better scaling at higher level. You no longer have power of 3 other characters at level 2, but on level 10 you are actually much stronger and versatile. You deal more damage in forms with elemental forms, you can talk, you can teleport, you can cast spells! You get advantage on attacks... It's awesome. You actually feel more like druid with its features when shifted, instead of just dumb beast that has inferior attacks. For example, in one of playtests, I shifted to large animal, casted moonbeam, and on consecutive round I managed to teleport on small cliff above battlefield, jumping down doing awesome fall damage to enemy I landed on, using temp hp to absorb the blow, and then I grappled him and dragged into moonbeam again... It was awesome 😁

[@everythingsalright1121]

Good. Played with two and both times they absolutely shredded every combat encounter and no one else got to do much

[@user-jt1js5mr3f]

we have a min-max meta gamer in our group that I can't wait to see cry about this

[@acephas3]

They massacred nearly ALL of the Druid subclasses. It’s a shitty change all around and it makes the Nature Cleric better at nature than the fkng class that’s supposed to be the best at it.

[@verysourdragon]

I believe 2024 moon druids can't change into elementals...

[@truenomads1508]

Dude you gotta get into the 5.5 spell list changes. I've only looked over druid so far, and there are DEF some nerfs (ones that are imho poorly implemented - conjure spells particularly) and some great buffs (barkskin looks epic)

[@RealRedHotSteele]

They killed my moon druid, massacred even

[@Kirholm12]

Seems like we've had our fun with moon druids in 5e...

Why, it feels much better and more balanced Oo

[@RealRedHotSteele]

They can't do what their class is used for now, which is the best tank in the game. It may be more balanced, but it will play a different role than in 5e I think. We will see!

@@RealRedHotSteele well I don't think it's the best tank, just biggest pile of hitpoints. But it's ac tanking isn't really that great as most forms have shitty ac and it's quite light on protection features that other martials have. No in built soft taunt and so on doesn't really help. While new version will have less hp per combat, it's ac will be possibly lot better at 18 (13+wis), and hp will not be much worse per combat. Old version at lvl 9 could for example go into giant scorpion (around 50hp), twice, so that's 100hp bonus. And 15 ac of course. And when you lose those 50hp you lose your wildshape. New version gets 27 temp hp in same form. If lose them, you retain your form tho. And new form is 17-18ac based on your wisdom at this level. BUT you can shapeshift 3 times per combat, and then spend spell slots to gain more wildshapes! So even with base 3 wildshapes, you get similar bonus hp, but better ac, and you retain your form better. But if shit really hits the fan, you can just start converting spellslots into shapeshifts, and get absolutely insane number of temp hp this way. Old version let you heal 1d8hp per spell slot level, new version gives you 27temp hp per spell slot if there is no caveat in rules. Yeah really, I think it will be fine guys. And instead of being just huge pile of hp, you can now heal in form, talk, you do more damage, you can cast some spells... Much more useful

[@RealRedHotSteele]

I'll grant you that the spell beastshape conversion could make this class better, I'm looking forward to seeing the final mechanics. Meaning if any spell slot = wildshape and you don't need to leave wildshape to use it again, then yes, I could see using my 17 wildshapes (lvl 9) to give me 153 hp spread over 17 turns. But remember those HP will not stack! As a lvl 9 druid, I could also go killer whale twice (in two turns) giving me 180 HP immediately. These HP are also healable by other party members whereas the new ones will not be if temp hp remain similar. Not to mention I would still have 14 spell slots to use after getting that HP dropped. This issue is compounded at higher levels where you beastshape hp increases by 3 per level, but beast HP increases at a much faster clip on average. I'm less interested in AC at these levels, because after their two I would argue that an 18 AC is still kinda bad . I'm interested to see the published ruleset!

[@hyenascreech2183]

"Rogue is the worst" Ranger 2 weeks later: "Hold my bow"

[@colbyrackler3915]

I will die before I let go of 5e Druid, 2 Wild Shapes per short rest and getting an entire extra Stat Block is so amazing. This One D&D is going to be the new 4e, just ew.

[@patrickigbeka1234]

The problem with the warlock in 2014 was the invocations. Invocations were not powerful enough unless you used eldritch invocations to negate the lack of spell slots. The revamp invocation in 2024 really solves that problems and makes more pact boons/ play-styles viable.

[@offdeez21]

Don’t forget that druids also get an improvement to their AC while they’re in wild shape, so even with the fewer hit points, their survivability isn’t that compromised.

[@acephas3]

Yes, it is, it’s greatly compromised. You’re gonna get hit and, at later levels, Wildshape is useless. This is a major nerf to a class that people already avoided. You’re better off playing as a Nature Cleric.

[@offdeez21]

@@acephas3 With all due respect bro, but did you even watch the original video? Druids are in a MUCH better place than they were in 2014, and thats saying a lot cuz they were already a very solid class back then. You talk about wild shape like that was the biggest feature of the class, when in reality, most druids opt to cast spells for combat and use their wild shapes for utility instead (for which the new rules are objectively more useful) The only class that uses wild shape in combat, the moon druid (widely considered to be one of the best classes in 5th edition, as well as having power-creep issues in its scaling), still receives many improvements both from wild shape buffs in the core class and new rules in their subclass: Their number of wild shape uses scale more consistently (instead of just having 2 and then unlimited at level 20), they’re able to speak whilst wild shaped, wild shape attacks do more damage thanks to primal strike and lunar form (scaling up to an extra 2d8+2d10 at level 15 for moon druids), their wild shapes have a higher base AC and 3 times more temporary HP than any other subclass in the new PHB, they can cast spells whilst wild shaped STARTING FROM LVL 3, and the list goes on… Now, when it comes to people avoiding the class, that probably has more to do with flavor preferences than the actual mechanics, but with circle of the land and sea both receiving great buffs, wild shape being usable as a bonus action, druids getting an expanded spell list, and many other quality of life enhancements, I think the new druid is likely to appeal to a larger player base than ever before.

[@acephas3]

@@offdeez21 Let me be clear, Druid is my favorite to play, my main as it were, and I DO understand how the class works. The balancing just nerfed Wildshape and the original video (and someone else’s who gave a FAR more detailed explanation) made it clear. 1. You only gain one use of WS back after a short rest when you regained both before, meaning you HAD 6 per long rest. This was plenty until level 20. We’ve gone from unlimited WS at level 20 (which communicated competence and mastery) to just 4, with the option to convert to an additional 8th level spell or so. Some people like that trade off, but it makes the class weaker at later levels and the 20th Druid just doesn’t keep up with other level 20’s; especially, the Sea Druid which, like the Spore Druid before it, loses most of its usefulness when it’s WS-alternate is not being used. 2. Choosing between medium armor and better Cantrip damage is a joke. With very few exceptions, and we’ll see if the Druid exclusive spells in particular are better in the expanded spell list, Druid damage Cantrips were just not as useful. Sure, you could be quirky with it, but we’ll see. Most are going to choose guidance and shillelagh anyway, maybe throw in Thornwhip. Now, I like Primal Savagery, so I should be very excited, but now I’ll get more damage out of that in light armor, which makes the as squishy as other casters not named Cleric. 3. The better option for the base class is to go Warden, then Elemental Fury. Oh, I get it, I can cast spells with a 300ft range and let’s see how many DM’s let Druids use that feature, RAW or not. But, most of what people are loving about these changes happens post level 12, when MOST campaigns don’t get that far. So, you don’t get the damage 4. You are limited to what creatures you can use and limited by level, MORE so than in 2014. Moon Druids lost the ability to turn into Elementals, which is a shame. 5. The worst part is the reducing of HP. I get it. But, now making the Animal Shapes HP equivalent to your Druid level is a laughingstock. No, it doesn’t increase the shapes utility. At level 3, you add 3 to your HP. At level 20, you add 20, making WS useless for everyone but the Moon Druid. You’re now just as squishy as every other non-Cleric caster. The Higher AC is nice sure, and it won’t matter at latter levels. It’s like having a bad False Life spell. Upcast False Life once and you’ve matched the temp HP of a fkg ARCHDRUID. Upcast it twice and you leave the ARCHDRUID in the dust. We’ll see how it plays PRACTICALLY.

[@offdeez21]

@@acephas3 Respectfully: 1. No, u dont get 6 per long rest, u get 2 WS uses and they come back on a short or long rest. The amount of short rests you can take per day is entirely dependent on your group and it varies from table to table. Also, having an infinite amount of WS doesn’t “communicate competence and mastery”, it’s unbalanced and needed to be toned down, specially because it led to every other druid subclass being completely overshadowed by the moon druid. Finally, 4 WS per day will likely be more than enough at most tables, but even in the rare cases where it isn’t, you can always spend a spell slot to get more uses (on top of all the added versatility that u mentioned). 2. U know whats really a joke? “druids will not wear armor or use shields made of metal” U should be glad thats gone and that people now get more alternatives to choose from depending on their playstyle 3. Well, at least the new druids get anything unique to their class between levels 2 and 18. I don’t get what there is to complain about here… 4. Actually, you’re less limited on the creatures you can choose from since you get beasts with swimming speeds at an earlier level now. Realistically, you’re always going to have enough known forms for anything you need, specially given that you can swap them on a long rest. Sure, moon druids losing elementals is a bit of a shame, but at least you get free teleportation and advantage on your attack rolls to make up for it. 5. Other than moon, what druids are wasting their action on WS at level 20 ????????? I said it increases your utility because you’re gonna get more HP on your stealth and scouting beasts, which is optimally the only thing you’re using WS for a these levels. And come on, saying casters in dnd are squishy is a well known fallacy... Watch treantmonk talk about the martial casters divide and you’ll understand what I mean.

[@acephas3]

@@offdeez21 Bruh, nah. 1. The average number of short rests per table, and ALSO in BG3 (which ramped up exposure), is 2 per 1 long rest. So yes, in a day you had 6 uses of WS. 6>4. Moreover, yes, Mastery, Competency, and Skill are supposed to be second nature to an Arch Druid and these nonsensical limits knee cap the power fantasy of being a level 20 character. Like I said, compare it to other level 20 characters. Are these mediocre or are they befitting a near Demi-god?? Is your level 20 Wizard, Warlock, Bard, Cleric, or Sorcerer lacking in mastery, skill, and flavor like the level 20 Druid??? 2. We both agree that was a joke, alongside the then Nature Cleric, some Warlocks, some Wizards, and some Bards getting Speak with Animals for free whilst Druids never did, save for homebrew. 3. My complaint is that the choice feels stupid on its face. Just add the +5 to nature checks and let everyone keep medium armor. TreantMonk himself pointed out that the Warden feature is FAR better than the Magician feature - and that’s got me ALL THE WAY fk’d up. Is that what Druid’s are to WotC!? Nature Magicians!?!? Instead of choosing between elemental fury and potent spellcasting, both should’ve been added as just regular features. It’s not OP when most campaigns end around 14. So, you just add your WIS modifier to your Cantrip and 1d8 elemental damage to a weapon strike. Nothing about combining those two breaks the balancing bank. The choice is thematically contrary to what Druids are and it should’ve been both from the start. That way, you distinguish yourself from other casters, pack a decent punch with mediocre damage Cantrips, and lets your Shillelagh hit harder at later levels. 4. Then, that’s matter of preference. Do you think losing elementals and all of their advantages is worth being able to teleport with advantage to attack?? Because the 4 Elementals had multi attack, drown (whelm), earth glide, fire form, and whirlwind. That’s not a good trade off. You being able to transform into an Elemental was a massive flex and it added to the uniqueness of the subclass. At this point, I guess we think nature consists only of animals and plants. And, you’re not less limited you are as DM dependent as you were before, but it’ll take some time before that becomes clear to everyone it seems. 5. Let’s be clear: Unlimited > 4 uses. That’s a literal nerf. (I also JUST watched the Spells video. Polymorph nerfed, Conjure Animals nerfed, Guidance nerfed, etc.); your 20 temp HPs at level 20 is an insult. Spells at that level will eat those alive. Hell, extra attack will eat that alive. It should’ve been 4 temp HPs for the Moon Druid and 2 temp HPs for everyone else per Druid level. I guarantee you that little “improvement” and “fine tuning” becomes a larger sticking point. Druids, as a class that I love, are now less competent and weaker than they’ve ever been. I’ll run a few campaigns in the next few years and no Druid player is choosing between those false choices that the core class offers. This isn’t going to help the class get more popular, which was one goal. It’s not going to make the class less complicated, which was another goal. All it does is minimize what the Druid WAS good at, and frankly, it looks like (excepting small QoL improvements like Speak with Animals at level 1 and talking in WS) WotC asked non-Druid plays and DMs about what they hated about the class, instead of asking Druid players about what they like about it. It is thematically and practically the worst casting class, and THAT is a shame.

[@Johnnyhitman411]

Honestly I would say new moon Druid is a lot stronger, it’s self heal (now cure wounds) is less so. Doing the math the Hitpoint values using a Mammoth at Level 20, no Arch Druid, 2 Short rests looks like this 2014 Moondruid: 6 uses, 756 hit points 2024 Moondruid: 28 uses, 1,680 hitpoints 2024 Moondruid 14 uses (half of every spell slot they have per level rounded down): 840 HP Granted I feel the Bonus action to leave it is clunky but it ensures Wildshape does not run wild in tankiness. I feel like it boils down to what level spell slot you would use for a spell that gives you 60 temp hp, Two 4dx attacks, a size bump, and a move bump.

[@DR.LingeringFrey]

Simultaneously saying wait until the full version comes out (which is, of course, always the right choice) and saying “hey! Back this Kickstarter!”

[@violetpatina708]

@@DR.LingeringFrey To be fair he's getting paid to say back the kickstarter lol. If WotC was sponsoring the video he'd probably also give links for the pre-orders.

[@ANIMOUS8]

Also Kickstarters get the material made in the first place. If the Kickstarter fails then there is no product to buy later.

[@RaoGung]

@@violetpatina708Seems WotC didnt give him an advanced copy. Seems he isn’t corporate shill enough for them.

[@DR.LingeringFrey]

@@ANIMOUS8 It still turns consumers into investors without any ownership returns, rewards should come with risk. The base tier is $30 for a pdf. If an entrepreneur is unable to afford the unit margin of a pdf, they shouldn’t be trusted to provide a product. Nothing stopped them from starting by selling a pdf as a finished product and using that money, if successful enough, to start selling physical books etc. Well, greed preying upon people willing to purchase a product that is not fully invented yet obviously stopped them.

[@PichuVSKirby]

Druids got gutted imo, it completely removes any reason to wildshape unless you're playing Moon Druid or a subclass that uses their wildshape charges for something else (Spore/Wildfire/Star,) it feels like you'd be better off playing an entirely different class and just taking the magic initiate feat to get the druid cantrips

[@joshuasmith9061]

The rogue starts feeling a lot better after seeing the ranger in the corner holding on to their "new" features, Hunters Mark, and crap hunter's mark buffs that only kick on at 13th 17th and 20th level.

[@malmasterson3890]

That still doesn't make them worse than a class without Spellcasting, Fighting Styles, and Deft Explorer though. I guess Wizards were convinced that the Half-Casters would be too powerful with only buffs, which makes some sense. Paladin and Ranger are still good classes, but Divine Smite & Favored Enemy being as they are is just clunky and limits build options, so I agree in the sense that it's bad design.

[@edwinvermeulen8187]

As a warlock getting a repelling shocking grasp or repelling ray of frost sounds so clutch Depending if the tome is going to keep giveing you the cantrips as warlock cantrips, adding later invocations to those new warlock cantrips can also result into intresting gameplay. Eg some subclasses deal with psychic damage and/or enchantment spells, cantrips like Mind Sliver and Viscious Mockery synergize well with them, especially if they now push or pull a target, do extra damage and other invocations attached to them Combine this with Hex wich now reduces saving throws as well, you can get a nasty Hex into Mind sliver setup for your next (Intelligence?) saving throw spell at -1d4 with disadvantage roll A great old one Chaining this into a phantasmal force for example... Sure you do less damage but who needs damage if you completly control your targets :D

[@Xorrin]

But shocking grasp already remove the reaction from the enemy, so you could disengage for free anyway without pushing

[@edwinvermeulen8187]

@@Xorrin While that is true, often the now reactionless encounter had the same speed or higher, and could just move up to you again and continue its attacks. Not to mention that repelling has other tactical uses like pushing it towards a melee ally or into other dangerous areas

[@Xorrin]

@@edwinvermeulen8187 but if you want to push them eldritch blast it's better, you can really push them far.

[@edwinvermeulen8187]

@@Xorrin eldritch blast has disadvantage if your in melee

[@deffdefying4803]

@@Xorrin removes opportunity attacks only, now. the creature might have other reactions to your movement that aren't opportunity attacks.

[@ornado4773]

Here's my opinion on what each class had happen based on my knowledge so far: 1. Barbarian, mostly an upgrade, but i'd consider almost everything to be good for them, flavor fail with rage being 10 minutes. 2. Bard - my god why would you do this, they're just the second best class now, for no reason. Stupid powerful and if you're a bard you just make other classes feel bad, because you can do their job, but better. 3. Cleric - Weird side grade, but with some okay buffs and odd nerfs. 4. Druid - full nerf and flavor fail. Wild shape sheet is stupid, while i understand it - i hate it. Talking while wild shape...again dumb and just stupid. 5. Fighter - is now just more gooder and do da bonk better. Still mad that Psi warrior didn't change at all and doesn't scale at all and has the same bad class features. YOU REWORKED ELDRITCH KNIGHT and its GOOD, but Psi Warrior got pushed off the table. 6. Monk - WHY DID YOU NERF THEM SO HARD THEY WEREN'T EVEN GOOD. WTF WIZARD WHY DO YOU HATE MONK WHAT DID THEY DO TO YOU? Let people play the punchy-magicy-not-magic guy, wtf? 7. Paladin - RIP its just worse fighter with bad spells. 4/10. 8. Ranger - they did it, they made ranger good. They had to kill paladin and for some reason shoot monk, but they did it. 9. Sorcerer - Side Grade, some buffs, some minor other stuff. 10. WArlock - yep its warlock...but more warlock 11. Wizard - WHY DID YOU MAKE THEM BROKEN. THEY DIDNT NEED TO BE MORE BROKEN. Man you knee capped fucking paladin and after you shot monk to buff ranger, you went back and kicked the body for reasons? WTF they didn't need this. They were already WIN MORE WTF. 12. Artificer - wtf why? Wait what?

[@ShadestheMothman]

Psi warrior is an awesome subclass and very powerful wdym

[@theunikronus7204]

Ranger is still dog ass man what are you talking about?

[@fz_dracohart1255]

​@@ShadestheMothman Eh Psi fighter is just weird Battlemaster with limited manuvers. The only good thing they have is teenyweeny damage bonus and damage mitigation but that's it.

[@CooperAATE]

Absolutely WILD takes in this comment

[@ornado4773]

@@ShadestheMothman yes because at level 8+ an extra 1D8+ intelligence to an attack or reduction to damage really helps with an extremely limited resource. Yes I took 60 damage using a key class resource to reduce that damage by maybe 6 means a lot

[@shamluis2125]

I love druid but I’m not sure how much i like the new one will have to see sub classes

[@Hakaimono]

I don't like the new druid wildshape. I do like being able to get more uses of it or turn it into spell slots, but it just isn't the same as turning into a bear with all those extra hit points.

[@MartialNico]

You can just play a Moon Druid, no?

[@Guy_W_Majimapfp]

11:34 Shield actually, in the wizard playtest they explicitly mentioned Shield.

[@shadow-faye]

In the playtest sure but not everything is the same as in the playtests

[@protosaber363]

As a frequent moon druid player i feel personally attacked by this nonsense.

[@auronstarglider7369]

@DNDShorts I just want to thank you for motivating me to back the DC20 Kickstarter campaign! It is because of your in-video ad, I decided to finally back it (I saw it well before this video). Will Ryoko's Guide to the Yokai Realms have a conversion ready for DC20?

[@EpicRandomness555]

Yay, more sadness I’m sure, thanks internet. Edit: Oh well, no Ranger talk. Good, don’t want to hear it.

[@Atherax]

Ranger review -tashas ranger but with the good.stripped and huntersmark required, somehow made it weaker. Done yay 😅

[@Nymaz]

Regarding the Druid Warden feature, do we know if the "no metal armor" restriction is still in play? Because frankly that would make medium armor proficiency useless. Also thanks to Cow God for the DC20 info, it's got a new happy backer.

[@targetdreamer257]

I am pretty sure that is gone, at least from the UA and all the other coverage I have seen.

[@justg5018]

Druid is dead

[@aubriestarks2242]

You couldn't choose Counterspell for Spell Mastery anyway, since Spell Mastery was limited to a 1st level and a 2nd level spell. The "problem" would have been with spamming Shield or Silvery Barbs. Signature Spells at 20th level would have allowed Counterspell, but only once without expending a spell slot.

[@junglejim9739]

This right here. Someone else said unlimited counterspell in another video and I just thought I was missing something but even the playtest counterspell is still level 3. Not sure why people keep mentioning it for spell mastery...

[@PG_PA]

Goodbye tanky moon druid... I loved the moon druid as it was but I did think the druid itself was a bit lackluster in comparison to the moon druids.. I just hope that moon druids still are fun

[@TheCasualGM]

As someone who's favourite class is also warlock, I would've liked to have seen them get more overall spell slots, much like the Dungeon Dude's Apothecary class did where the number of slots increased at the same level they would get a Proficiency Bonus increase for a total of 6 spell slots. But being able to regain half your slots once per long rest isn't too bad either so I guess I'll take that as a compromise

[@NoahOMorainRush]

I can see it being argued that a casting time of 1 Reaction is equivalent to that of 1 Action. For instance, being Incapacitated means you can't take actions, which includes bonus actions and reactions. A reaction is also even faster than an action, which sounds like what they were going for, as opposed to spells with a casting time of a minute or more. If nothing else, that's how I'd rule it at my table.

[@aarons.8161]

While I get the fact most Druids use Shillelagh and attack with Wisdom, Warden granting full Martial Proficiency rather than the partial they've had, means they can now use the Heavy Polearms like Halberds and Glaives, or use other great weapons. Though I'm not sure if they have changed the feats for such things or not. (Talking Polearm Master and Great Weapon Master)

[@zachswanson6643]

I actually really liked the half-caster warlock, I hope they eventually print an arcane half-caster because it was fascinating design to me.

[@davec1]

It would have been the sensible thing to do, but sadly they threw out the baby with the bathwater when people didn’t love the first iteration. Warlock spell slots have zero narrative foundation (what is it about making a pact with a supernatural being, exactly, that makes you recover your magic after a short nap?!) and rally didn’t play well with the rest cycle and the magic system.

[@CivilWarMan]

The way I wished they had done it would be to have the Warlock keep the half-caster spell slots, but include a "Pact Magic" feature that gives them a limited-use per short rest ability to up-cast spells to a certain level without expending the higher level spell slot. So, as an example, a 5th level Warlock would be able to use this hypothetical Pact Magic to upcast Armor of Agathys to 3rd level, but still have it only cost them a 1st level slot. It would provide a similar vibe to the way Warlocks currently work, with pushing the boundaries of more traditional magic, but at the same time be able to have more spell slots to use normally, and also not end up devaluing lower level spells that don't upcast as you level up (like Misty Step currently does the moment you hit level 9 and gain access to Far Step).

[@jaspermooren5883]

​@@davec1 I would have loved if they went hard the other way, and gave everyone warlock style magic. It's the far better designed way of running spells of the 2. That would have caused a riot since that would be a big change since at least 3rd edition (I don't know enough about 1st and 2nd edition, but I believe they use the same magic system too) to how magic works fundamentally. But I think it has always been stupid and unintuitive how magic works, and the warlock way of doing things makes a ton more sense, and I think is actually more balanced as well. Making them half casters is even more ridiculous. They are full casters, they get new spell levels every odd level all the way up to lvl 9 like any other full caster. And if you have some short rests they actually have more spell slots than other casters at lower levels. I don't think the problem is that warlocks are too reliant on short rests. I think the problem is that several other classes don't rely on it at all. The 'either short rest or long rest based characters' is I think the biggest design flaw in the entire game. Every character should have to rely on both. That way the entire party wants to have short rests, and not just the warlock. Just 2 examples of warlocks I've seen in play. One with a paladin, a druid and a wizard and it was a very sad warlock, since no one else in the party cared about short rests. A different group had a monk, a bard, and a fighter, and the party had short rests all the time, since everyone in the party had a reason to want them. I think the latter should be how every class works, but it looks like that's not the way WotC went with it.

[@davec1]

@@jaspermooren5883 I see your point, I mainly meant there is a mismatch and I just kind of assumed they wouldn't change the resource regeneration cycle for all spellcaster classes except the Warlock for what they say is an update of 5e (or whatever we want to call 5.24 / 5.5, 5e 2014). Of course adapting everyone else to the Warlock way of things could work, too, e.g. for 6e. What mostly doesn't make any narrative sense to me is the status quo of some spellcasters regenerating spell slots after a short rest and others after a long rest, it's different systems purely for the sake of being different and imho they should get rid of that difference one way or the other (or, somehow provide a good narrative reason for the difference).

[@i.am_berserk]

I will still defend the rogue here. I think that it has always been a great damage dealing class, yes, taking away some of it is not ideal, but the debuffs are pretty good when it comes go supporting the party, like disarming an enemy or knocking them prone, also, for all the people that are saying that the rogue falls behind cuz of the other classes getting some kind of expertise... Seriously? The rogue gets the most expertises out of any other class and gets reliable talent fairly early now, i wanna see a wizard rolling a 2 on arcana and beating a check. Rogues are really good Skill Monkeys, they have now better and much more options to set up Sneak Attack easier and are getting a needed boost in combat with Weapon Mastery, rogues are doing good, they still deliver the rogue fantasy. I'm *PERSONALLY* happy for the changes but that's just me... I hope people can see how good this class still is

[@joshd2342]

Nerfing Moon druid with the temp hp change is interesting... it feels like it removes the option of using moon druids as tank frontliners. Like before I would have played a moon druid but now I would probably steer clear of the druid class all together.

[@deffdefying4803]

Moon Druid is still tanky. • Temporary hit points • Minimum AC is 13+WIS (AC 18 with 20 WIS) • Cure wounds is always prepared and you can cast it in beast form from the get-go, thus can cast it on yourself (not necessarily optimal but is an option) • Wildshape doesn't drop unless you tell it to or it's beaten out of you On top of that you get bonus damage on a hit from both base druid (Primal Strike, up to 2d8 cold/fire/lightning/thunder) and Moon druid (Lunar Form, 1d10 radiant)

[@truenomads1508]

Moon druid did NOT get "hp sack" nerf, as so many think. Math time: At lvl 5, 5e moon druid gets 2 wild shape, 1cr beast max. Brown bear = 34hp, dire wolf = 37 ... but lets use giant octopuses thicky 52hp. 2x uses = 104hp. 5.5 moon druid, lvl5, 1cr beast max. 2 base uses of wildshape *and one for every spell slot, which is another 9 friggin uses*. They get (3thp×lvl)×(slots+base wildshape uses)=15×11= one hundred and sixty five temp hit points. 165. And thats for when you shift into a recon spider, a war horse, a spotted effing trout, your mama's laziest louse, and yes - a brown bear. On paper, the flexibility this gives moon druids to actually do utility wild shapes instead of saving them as a precious resource for combat use is something i, as a dedicated moon druid player (yes i play other classes, but... no. No i dont, im just saying that), am really excited for! And i mean cmon - just today i snuck into a lake in a cave with a whole f-load of goblin baddies milling about by shifting into a spider and sneaking jnto the waters - then shifting into a giant octopus and grappling them down 1 by one to drown them as my lawful preist looked on in horror... didnt bite a one, i drown the little buggers, and if it'd been 5e that would have mandated a short rest if not splitting the dungeon run up with a trip to camp and nap. The utility is amazing. It just is. Try it guys, all you moon druid fanatics - its a friggin blast. (Also, i highly reccomend having a very hq voice actor dm voicing a camp of goblins as you drag them to a watery grave 1 by one. Holy crap, best sesh ever. Imagine a blizzard murlock screaming for mercy for 3 minutes + 1 round ... 20 something times. I gotta get him some nice mini's or some halls or smth)

[@ryanstoyan8980]

The reason primal order is a huge buff is the medium armor they get seems to no longer have the metal armor restriction. This functionally gives them +3 ac compared to the 2014 druid.

[@barcster2003]

Yep. I do see the value in Magician now though. Before it didn't seem that good before but then they mentioned you get Arcana as well.

[@deffdefying4803]

2014 druid could always wear half plate armour, as long as it was not metal. make it out of magical wood or something. the nonmetal restriction was for flavour.

[@houstonhall1851]

Using some of the sneak attack damage for an effect is exactly how Starwars 5e is for their rogue(operative). Except each subclass of the rogue can apply different effects.

[@crisis8425]

I won't lie, I didn't even mind the half caster Warlock idea. The Warlock in my campaign very frequently became frustrated and pressured with the limited spell slots, especially if it failed, or didn'thave the desired effect. Half your spell slots wasted immediately is kind of crushing, so having the bigger spells bound to single use Mystic Arcanum, and still having spell options was refreshing. I can see why others disliked it, as the identity of the Warlock was often bound to the quickly burned, high power of the Warlock. But I personally thought it wasn't that bad. I'll leave it up to my players which version they'd prefer to use. Maybe making some updates to the half caster variant to include the other quality of life additions.

[@mandocomando9444]

I actually like the changes to Druid, that wildshape seems far more useful and better for multiclassing then the old one which at higher levels dropped off hard. The temp hp seems a bit low though, as a 5th level Druid you have 5 temp hp and 41 hp, maybe 51 or 61 if you hill dwarf and tough feat. And then an enemy wizard (or your chaotic evil “friend)”) rolls up with fireball: max damage you die, average you have half hp, whereas old moon druids could be rocking 42 hp from a polar bear. As much as I like the changes I think double your level +wisdom would be better, since 13-15 temp hp gives you a bit more of a cushion for those d8s and pathetic beast ac. And by 20th level 45 hp is still chump change against pwk or meteor swarm. I do think it’s going in a healthy direction though, since at low levels moon druids dominated and no other druids even tried to compete.

[@acephas3]

@@mandocomando9444 Even 2 hp per Druid level would help.

[@baseballjustin5]

I can see the rogue's lucky miss critt thing; you miss, and "ha you missed," insert cheeky unseen strike

[@RCunderscore]

Warlocks are by farrrrr my favorite class in the game, I love these changes. I am so genuinely excited for the changes to come out.

[@haravikk]

I especially like how many of us raised these issues in the UA feedback, and WotC don't seem to have listened at all. In fact from everything they've showed so far it seems like they haven't listened to feedback at all from the later stages of the UA, and they never really listened to it early on either (just boiled it down into a number). Whole process was extremely disappointing, and it hasn't left me in the least bit interested in buying any of the new books - I'll most likely just take some of the bits I like as homebrew and carry on with 5th, though I'm kind of jaded about 5th edition as well these days, might move to another system entirely.

[@metalfanfromhell]

So as a druid you could technically at high level change 4 low level spellslots into 1 8th level spellslot by burning them for wild shapes and then dumping all 4 wild shapes for an 8th level spell slot. So if you could somehow get more low level spell slots or easy low level spell slot regeneration, you have infinite 8th level spell slots? Or am I misunderstanding something?

[@ToasterNipps]

I have been doing some cooking and I feel like rogue could potentially be really good. Firstly, the cunning strike abilities I believe take off the sneak attack dice after the hit, so if you crit and use double dice rule, your damage is still pretty high. Secondly, allowing them to knock large and smaller creatures prone every turn for 1 sneak attack dice is hilarious on flying creatures, or enemies with low movement and bad dex saves. Using something with the slow property is even better as is a static -10 move and they are prone. Excited to try it out!