🎲🐉Do Firearms Ruin D&D? 🔫

[@jeremymullens7167]

I read a story of Gygax’s players going into a world war 1 battle field. He allowed them to take weapons back. They just worked as limited use magic items. He didn’t allow an industry to reverse engineer and mass produce them.

[@crimfan]

Limited use items is how we played with the Barrier Peaks weapons. We cried when they ran out, too.

[@spartaninvirginia]

Your pronunciation of arquebus makes me giggle. I'm imagining a bright yellow school bus turned into a submarine, Magic School Bus style. Once again, a great video.

[@daddyrolleda1]

Hahaha! That made me laugh! So, I have to admit... I have NEVER known how to pronounce that word. I always made the "r" sound a lot more prominent. But I thought I should look up how to pronounce it, and the phonetic spelling was: *aa* · kwuh · buhs. And several online sources said that! To me, it sounds like the tour bus for the band the Aquabats! Thanks for watching and commenting, as always!

[@spartaninvirginia]

Well today I learned something, aside from more about firearms in early D&D. Enjoy your weekend!

[@BDSquirrel]

​@@daddyrolleda1Arquebus is pronounced Ar-kay-bus

[@daddyrolleda1]

It looks like I may have accidentally looked at the British pronunciation, which softens and pretty much omits the "r" sound. I watched a few videos and also got this notification when I asked "how do you pronounce arquebus" in Google. However, as I mentioned, I didn't realize it was set to British pronunciation: Sounds like *aa* · kwuh · buhs The American pronunciation says this: Sounds like *aar* · kwuh · buhs

[@epone3488]

@@BDSquirrel Ach - que -boos

[@chameleondream]

I kinda agree with Gygax. If I remember right, armor and weaponry evolve in tandem with each other and ironically the full suit of knightly platemail came about as a response to early firearms. Eventually, firearms became so effective that they scaled back to just a breastplate and then no armor at all. Guns and what we like to think of as medieval fantasy really do come from two different time periods. A D&D with firearms would be more Three Musketeers than King Arthur (or should that be more Solomon Kane than Conan?) Possibly a bigger problem which seemed to come up a lot in the video is that people have a bigger problem with gun powder than anything else. Knowing my friends and I from back in the day, as soon as you mentioned firearms we would have been packing gun powder into casks and plotting to blow the Caves of Chaos to smithereens rather than delving into them. To do D&D and firearms right you would have to treat gunpowder like a magic item, price it ridiculous high and make it incredibly rare. Even then, bombing your way out of every situation could eventually become as boring as, well, solving everything with a fireball. Good video! I really enjoyed it.

[@SusCalvin]

You got to budget how well-suited your goon squad should be. The PCs themselves and their closests retainers will probably have all non-magical personal kit they can point at by level 3-5. But can you get gothic plate for a company of 200 dudes. Hirelings didn't come with kit, when you hired a cavalryman or a gunner you had to get them a horse and lance and gun etc. Mobility got more and more important with huge bodies of men moving around. Cannons got smaller and lighter, and armour at the time does little against even a light cannon. Most people never had the cool gothic plate, they always had cheap cloth armour and munitions plate and a shield with barely a helmet. I think even a lever-action rifle would not be a huge change when fighting weird dungeon stuff. Maybe if the PCs got themselves a field gun. That would be cool. I like rules where one weapon is not singled out with a ton of special rules. An early modern period arquebus is not a superweapon, it is a smooth tube with holes you stick a burning cord or a flint mechanism on. They are not plasma guns that evaporate people. If you shoot a 1HD dude with a pistol they likely get seriously injured and die, but that happens if you stab a 1HD dude with a pike. Some games add a reload speed, where a crossbow or pistol fights slower. MERP had a side rule where holding a bow ready was harder than holding a crossbow ready, so a crossbow will act before a bow at the first turn. But MERP is the opposite end of the detail scale, where using a shield has a separate game mechanic. We found that a pistol is relatively large bang for a single-handed weapon at least. Dungeon bums who fight from room to room don't care about longer range. Reloading the piece is no issue either when you get one or two turns of shooting before they are either on top of you or you're legging it. Pistols are small enough that a paramilitary bum can have a couple of them and pull the second if necessary. OD&D is not a game about giving the players a lot of combat manouvers and special actions. Simple things like covering behind a wall or lobbing a grenade into a room is fun and gives the players choice. You can always give the gnolls revolvers. Now they have guns too. Same reason why the PCs eventually face a bloke with eactly the same level 1 spells they got and Sleeps all their dogs and goons.

[@SimonAshworthWood]

Much D&D seems to have a freer, more bourgeois-dominated and dynamic political, economic and social system more like the renaissance era (with some Wild West elements) than the purely feudal medieval times. This makes early firearms seem quite appropriate to me.

[@edmackdaddy]

Runequest did have firearms (along with hand grenades) but they were limited to Dwarves who had a (relatively) advanced society compared to the other races. It also had ducks as a playable race.

[@daddyrolleda1]

Thank you! The firearms were there from the very beginning? I totally didn't remember that. Thanks for sharing. I of course remembered the ducks.

[@SusCalvin]

Every fantasy game needs ducks. Hand grenades are great for room-to-room fighting dungeon goons.

[@epone3488]

On Ducks - they are a cursed peoples living under the gease of a god hence they are Ducks.

[@onemerlin]

I got and DMed S3 on release, back in the day. We never quite finished - it ended up being the last module of my high school campaign. But it was a metric ton of fun, and the figure-it-out tables for all the "artifacts" were a blast to take the players through.

[@daddyrolleda1]

I loved those "artifact tables"! I ran S3 for a group of friends during our Friday night "beer and pretzels" game a few years ago. I had a lot of fun but sadly they weren't really into it. But I was glad to finally get a chance to run it after all these years.

[@nos2342]

Thanks for reminding me of "a mighty fortress" it was used heavily in the campaigns of the glorious past.

[@daddyrolleda1]

I really liked that book a lot! I was so excited when I heard it was coming out, and I still refer to it often for my current games. Thanks for watching and commenting, and for your support of the channel!

[@SusCalvin]

This was the big early modern period book for AD&D 2e. There was a whole line of historical settings too. I got the one for Charlemagne as well, and looking to get the one for antiquity. I think it had rules for mass combat. Early modern period nations start to re-learn buerocracy and how to put huge field armies together. Magic-users and clerics are much less flashy, more dr. Dee than Elminster.

[@MemphiStig]

There's a great fantasy series from the 80's, Guardians of the Flame by Joel Rosenberg, that has an interesting fantasy use of guns. A gaming group from this world gets transported to their campaign world, and they quickly earn some serious enemies. One of them uses their knowledge to create gunpowder and guns, but they keep it top secret, so the baddies come up with a magic version, based on water, iirc, inferior to theirs, but very similar.

[@SusCalvin]

Early Mutant editions had a similar discussion about ancient humans in cryo. These people were often highly educated but unable to use a lot of their skills. Any technical revolution they sparked started from the ground up, like how to create a base industry first.

[@Thagomizer]

"Fantasy Gun Control" is one of my least favorite fantasy tropes. There is absolutely no good reason guns can't be a base part of the D&D game, nothing about their rules that is overpowred, and nothing about their presence that is inimical to the pseudo-medieval milieu of most D&D campaign worlds. The formula for gunpowder was known in Europe for centuries before the Catholic church even acknowledged the existence of witches. Suits of plate armor were tested by a musket blasts. The Grimorium Verum includes a spell to protect the wielder from gunfire. Full Plate and rapiers are absolutely contemporaneous with matchlock muskets and canons, as well as many of the tropes associated with western conceptions of magic.

[@JestaKilla]

Great video! I have to make two posts about it. This one is to mention that, in my campaign, I have sunpowder, which is literally sunlight that has first been distilled into a liquid and then refined into an explosive powder. It doesn't last, though- half of a given supply is lost every day. It's a rough gunpowder analog that has been under the control of a specific sun-worshiping religion for a long time, but its secrets have recently leaked out. One group of pcs has even found a sunpowder-fueled airship where someone seems to have figured out a way to stabilize sunpowder.

[@Saru5000]

The Forgotten Realms Adventure book from 1990 had several firearms.

[@daddyrolleda1]

Definitely. I think I mentioned it in this video (it's been a bit since I recorded it so I might not be remembering) but there's an article by Ed Greenwood in Dragon Magazine all about Firearms that implies that the Realms included them. I *think* I mentioned that in this video, but it's also very possible I forgot to bring it up.

[@Saru5000]

@@daddyrolleda1 I might have missed it, but I only posted this because I didn't hear it mentioned. I paused as soon as you started talking about 3e.

[@highlorddarkstar]

I agree that guns tend to be an add on to the original system of D&D, but I think their power gets overstated in a magical world. If you stick with black powder and treat magical armor as AR500 Body Plates, then you still have a role for swords that can get around the armor. It might also reduce the prevalence of mass armies of the Napoleonic era. Smaller units of magically armored “knights” fighting melee as the model of warfare, civilian guns being used in civilian circumstances. It isn’t medieval, but neither are the forgotten realms.

[@jeremymullens7167]

Napoleon still used calvary charges and even the infantry hand bayonets on their weapons to charge the enemy. It was machine guns that changed things in a major way and saw the end of people fighting with swords. I think mechanically early period guns would work about as well as a crossbow. 1d6 was enough damage to kill a human. Can an arquebus kill a bear or an elephant? Even then, you could have bonus damage for large creatures like other weapons got to show extra penetration. 1d10 or 1d12 would be enough. Then you just find effective ranges. Then give an attack bonus on the lighter armors in that table no one uses. The problem with guns was they were slow to reload and weren’t accurate. Napoleon used artillery to stun enemy infantry then charged with calvary and infantry. Pikemen were used for a very long time to counter calvary. Guns can hang out for a while. This was the point in history though that feudalism was coming to an end and monarchy’s were being overthrown. Right before that, gunners were part of the warrior elite. It wasn’t easy keeping you expensive equipment in tip top shape.

[@Game.Master.Allen83]

Fantastic video on the history of firearms in early RPGs! The debate around firearms in sword and sorcery genres is fascinating. Personally, I believe firearms could definitely have a place in a world where magic exists, especially if magic is rare and limited to a select few. In such a scenario, firearms would provide a significant technological advantage to any nation or group wielding them. It's all about how the world is built and the stories we want to tell within it. Balancing magic and technology opens up intriguing narrative possibilities and conflict dynamics. Thanks for diving into this topic and sparking such an interesting discussion!

[@daddyrolleda1]

I'm so glad you enjoyed it! It is one of my favorite videos but it was made when my channel was a lot smaller so I think a lot of folks just never saw it. I really appreciate you taking some time to dig into my "back catalog" and I'm especially happy you found it inspirational. Cheers!

[@michealbohmer2871]

I have the Historical Campaign Guides for 2nd ed. as well (though not Mighty Fortress). I also have the historical campaign books for Rolemaster/Spacemaster (Outlaw, Robin Hood, Pirates). I love them all.

[@daddyrolleda1]

Oh, very cool about the Rolemaster ones! I recall ads for a few of those, I think, in Dragon Magazine, but never got any as I never played Rolemaster (or, as my friend who did play it called it, "Chartmaster"). Do you have a favorite of the Green Historical guides? I know a lot of folks liked the Roman and Greek ones, but I was partial to the Mighty Fortress (which I know you don't have), Charlemagne's Paladins, Crusaders, and Vikings. Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@michealbohmer2871]

@daddyrolleda1 Hahaha! Chartmaster, very apt! I actual prefer MERP, it's Rolemaster light; it is to Rolemaster what Basic is to AD&D (I know, they call it BECMI now, but it will forever be Basic to me). I would have to say Charlemagne's Paladins is my favourite, thought, as a history buff, I enjoyed them all. I actually adapted the Robin Hood book to 2nd ed, many years ago, and it was a lot of fun. There was no magic in the campaign so the player's thought long and hard before getting into battle, knowing there weren't any healing spells to rely on. When they did have to fight, they were much more careful with there tactics. I did a lot of on the fly rulings because they would come up with great ideas that had a heroic, Errol Flynn feel to them, and I wanted to reward and encourage that kind of play; it made the game more like an epic. I seem to remember most DMs and players were like that back then, and the systems not being chock full of procedures and rules kind of encouraged that sort of play. Yeah, sometimes you got things wrong, but it was a lot of fun.

[@daddyrolleda1]

That sounds like so much fun! I played in a 3E Game for over a decade in which the DM used his old MERP books/supplements to form the basis of the campaign background. It was so much fun - probably my favorite game I've been involved with as a player. And, I call it "B/X" or "Basic"! Sometimes I'll qualify and say "Moldvay Basic" since there was also Holmes Basic and Mentzer Basic (aka "BECMI").

[@RuiSaltao]

Another super interesting one, an informative treasure trove full of history. Thanks for all the work you put in!

[@daddyrolleda1]

You're very welcome! Thank YOU for for your support!

[@comradestannis]

@@daddyrolleda1 And thank YOU for the videos.

[@KabukiKid]

Love your research and am always impressed by your collection of books to cover almost everything necessary with the topic. 🙂As for my experience with guns in D&D, in the mid-90s, I did play briefly in a 2e game where the DM basically had the players take on the roles of musketeers, with all sorts of Dumas swashbuckling. :-) I have to admit we had a great time. It was also a small group of only 3 of us, so it somehow worked well... not sure if it would have been as good with a large group. As for the gunplay, it was realistic in the sense that we got off one shot and then it was swords drawn, so it wasn't like guns played a huge part in messing with the combats.

[@SusCalvin]

I know they had a range of historical settings with Charlemagne and Rome etc. A Mighty Fortress was the swashbuckling early modern period one. That one had early modern period pistols, fencing and ritual wizardry. You didn't get to play standard Magic Missile chumps, you had to play dr. Dee but with functional magic. We also use pistols the same way. People are not reloading pistols in a room to room skirmish if the other blokes are right on top of you. And in a dungeon, one side can often reach the other or retreat in one turn or two. Then you can draw an arming sword or club them. A modern hand grenade is great, even a napoleonic one is nice. Some bums took to wearing several pistols in case, and sometimes used them at point blanc range, practically pressed against the other dudes.

[@marcraygun6290]

Lamentations of the flame princess implements firearms very well in a kind of modern take on becmi

[@daddyrolleda1]

Definitely! I'm currently running a B/X game for my daughter and her friends, and I grab a lot of ideas from LotFP. One of my (online social media) friends, Kelvin Green, does a lot of work for them, both art and writing. Actually, he's the reason I started the channel and why my first posted video was Big Terror in the Streets, which is an LotFP adventure: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nZ2YnoueqZyUbtk

[@marcraygun6290]

@@daddyrolleda1 I think it solves a lot of issues with becmi for mainly Thieves skills and nice touches like guns punching through armour and rapiers being less good against plate and whips pretty much useless against any armour are great , I ran alternative elizabethan horror setting a little inspired by elizabethulhu the 3e setting that I believe you can just get online

[@SusCalvin]

They add a bit too many special rules for my taste, but you can always ignore them. Firearms do damage as a normal weapon, knock off like 4 points of AC and have a firing rate of once per skirmish in practice.

[@SusCalvin]

@@marcraygun6290 The skill system is maybe the thing I like most of Lamentations. I can add and remove skills as I want for a setting. Sometimes a Computers skill is necessary or a Drive skill is added. I don't know if the firearms rules are that special. Which is how I like it, don't tack on too many special rules for each weapon. A pistol goes bang and hits a bloke for d8 damage. I don't want to have a load of special rules when ten goons are going to shoot the crew.

[@Slaught3rkitty]

I just found your channel and I’ve already almost watched all of your videos. So happy to see a new upload. Keep up the great work!

[@daddyrolleda1]

Thank you so much! That's a great compliment! I'm making them as fast as I can, roughly once a week. Thank you very much for watching and commenting! Cheers!

[@andrewlustfield6079]

@@daddyrolleda1 Definitely--both my girl friend and I love your exploration of early age D&D. For me, this is a really interesting topic. Back in 2010, I went to world fantasy in Columbus Ohio and one of the topics that was discussed is firearms in fantasy, and it was a fascinating discussion. I had definitely been in the Gygax school of thought before this discussion and afterward I was definitely much more open to the notion of having guns in fantasy, especially primitive firearms as it captures and reflects a musketeers feel to a campaign setting. Here's the thing, though--if your setting is much more Conan like, no---it doesn't make sense. But also by Robert Howard, if you're wanting a more Soloman Kane feel to the campaign, or a Wooden Ships and Iron Men high seas adventure, then without doubt, early firearms belong in the venue. Even in Oriental based campaigns that are rooted in Warring States Japan---they belong there. I have both Ed Greenwood articles you referenced, and I also use the very late TSR Combat and Tactics Player's Option rules for inspiration for how to employ firearms in my world. (Which tech setting is 14th to early 17th century---where the age of chivalry is just starting to give way to the age of the courtier. So star fortresses are just starting to surround cities and castles, and early galleons are being built. Things get more primitive the further away from the seats of civilization you get---so you can still find Norse type raiders and the like on frontier edges, but they are further on the periphery of most settled lands) As far as muddying waters with gunpowder, I haven't seen that happen in my games. When they are used at all, which is very rare, they are used in the opening round of combat and then swords are drawn. It takes anywhere between 20 seconds to a full minute or longer to reload. That's much too long before the enemy closes with axes and swords. You take your shot, draw weapons and you're in standard D&D combat. It all depends on what kind of campaign setting do you want? If the setting is 100 years war or after--if you have knights in full plate harness, gunpowder was a thing.

[@daddyrolleda1]

This is a great reply! I love learning about peoples' games and I'm glad you and your girlfriend are both enjoying the videos. Thank you very much for letting me know. Your game sounds really fun! I love mixing different time periods like that. It's how I built the campaign world for the game I run for my daughter and her friends. Cheers!

[@andrewlustfield6079]

@@daddyrolleda1 The discussion was really interesting, and was focused on fantasy lit rather than games. But it was an exploration of the biases in fantasy against firearms, and how in many ways that feels like "cheating" or only something the villain would resort to. Of course Stephen King turned that whole idea on its head with the Dark Tower series--and we discussed other ways to include gun powder in fantasy. Neal Stevenson tip-toed toward that in his Baroque Cycle with the character of Enoch Root, but he mostly stuck to 17th century and early 18th century science in his works. DENSE read, but a great read if you're into that sort of thing. And the overall discussion ranged into how an author can make gunpowder work in fantasy. It was eye-opening. But in swords and sorcery gaming? If it makes sense with the world setting--why not?

[@graveyardshift2100]

If you're worried about guns changing the world too much, just use pre musket weapons. A handgonne isn't going to change things too much because you absolutely need two hands to use it, it's slow to reload, and it fits the themes better.

[@GravesRWFiA]

historically the japanese in 1599 had armies just like western armies with pike men shielding shooters. and it terrified the samurai so while western armies changed their tactics. the japanese just decided they didn't have guns.

[@flavortown3781]

​@@GravesRWFiAfam the samurais took up the gun by the 1800s the bow was largely for ceremony

[@kuriboh635]

This is a perfect topic for me once I get home on Monday and can watch this video fully. My world has guns in it. I am very into firearms personally and my wizard weilds a kentucky long rifle and pistols loaded with silver bullets just incase

[@daddyrolleda1]

Thank you for watching and commenting! That sounds like a fun wizard character!

[@kuriboh635]

@daddyrolleda1 thank you. Ya he's been very interesting whenever I tell people about him for sure. Lol

[@SusCalvin]

That's how I tend to use magical ammunition. Anything a magical arrow can do, a magical bullet can also do. PCs can find magical musketballs +1 as treasure now and then with about the same distribution as other magical consumables. The crew found a handful of magical bullets with the names of 1970 town councilmembers on them.

[@kuriboh635]

@SusCalvin definitely very interested.

[@SusCalvin]

@@kuriboh635 The magic bullets were a find in Esoteric Enterprises, an OSR game where modern-day criminal bums grab their AR-10 and their spellbooks to explore a mystical WoD underworld beneath their city. Modern weapons are extremely prevalent, every PC and many NPCs are going to wield firearms. Firearms are just normal weapons in these rules. Cyberpunk 2020 had pretty gnarly modern weapon rules. PCs start to gain access to fully automatic, accurate modern firearms. You would roll damage for each bullet, and when 8 bullets hit a character that hurt. Hopefully you had your kevlar underwear on. Characters are so flimsy that reaction speed is hugely important. The character who acts first often wins.

[@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115]

Haha! Thunderstick goes boom-boom!

[@daddyrolleda1]

Ha! Have you used firearms in your D&D fantasy style games?

[@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115]

@@daddyrolleda1 indeed. Rate of fire 1/2. Dmg 4d6, but it's so nasty that magical entities need a save (DC= attack roll, full damage if failed). Nat 1, roll Dex dc 15 or getting 1d4*3. In Palladium RPG system, it will needs to overcome armor rating.

[@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115]

@@daddyrolleda1 on nat 20, 24hp, and reroll d20, if 17+, add 4d6

[@daddyrolleda1]

Sounds like a lot of fun!

[@comradestannis]

This is all pretty interesting. Thanks for the video!

[@daddyrolleda1]

Thank you very much! I really appreciate that!

[@comradestannis]

@@daddyrolleda1np

[@Archaeo_Matt]

An excellent video. I've waffled over this for my own campaigns...whether to include cannons only, or even include small arms. When I wrote up rules for my own game, I included a very brief section with a table for cannon, arquebus/matchlock, flintlock, and blunderbuss, even though I'd already decided that I would not use them myself (ultimately never fully finished it due to deciding I could do enough of what I wanted with Chaosium's BRP). Plus, some rules that I use for non-gunpowder grenades/grenadiers, too. I happily play other games that use gunpowder weapons. I own both long guns and handguns, and enjoy shooting as a hobby (actually competed in biathlon as a younger person). For me it isn't about catastrophic damage in combat; it's all about the focus of downtime. In a swords & sorcery game, I want my players focused on researching and creating magical solutions to their problems. That's how I, as the DM, want to drain their coffers and consume their character's time outside of the main adventures.

[@manfredconnor3194]

I am a bit late! Excellent! I played Beyond the Barrier Peaks. There was also some early D&D adventure, where you go to this weird tower and end up fighting Nazi German soldiers and zombies. I played in it, but never saw it again. I am pretty sure that it was published in some magazine somewhere, but idk which one. Other than that we never really had guns in our D&D games, but around 1985, I started playing Mêlée and guns were more common in that game setting. Much of it was probably our GM, but I have to admit it was a good time. My friends currently have me running a 5e game in Faerun and guns, while uncommon items, do play a role there.

[@havokmusicinc]

I love early Japanese firearms. Massive cannons made of bamboo and iron, held by equally massive men

[@AleksoLaĈevalo999]

6:00 "Horse Bow" I didn't knew that there was a type of bow made just for us!

[@IbnShisha1]

In one 2e game in college, I played a magic-user using the alternate 'Warlock' system from Spells & Magic, and two Wheellock pistols. He basically was Vincent from FF7.

[@Kanta82]

I'm running an AD&D 2e game using published Ravenloft modules. We hadn't had any guns yet. When we were playing Feast of Goblyns, the module mentions a certain house having an old blunderbuss above the door, with no mechanics or really any further details besides it having wounded an npc. My players' immediate question was, "If this is an old blunderbuss, what are the new ones like?"

[@SusCalvin]

I thought there was a gothic horror box set where rules for firearms were used. PCs could fight Dracula's minions with derringers and lever-action rifles if they liked.

[@Kanta82]

@@SusCalvin There might be, but I don't have it. Also, probably not Dracula. Maybe Strahd or Duke Gundar.

[@SusCalvin]

@@Kanta82 Masque of the Red Death and Other Tales was the 1890 alternate setting for Ravenloft where you run about in gothic-victorian horror Earth. Everyone is human, equipped with muted magic and kit of that era. There's mummy curses and stuff afoot.

[@Kanta82]

@@SusCalvin Ah. I don't think I have that one, yeah.

[@AyebeeMk2]

played a few games wayback when when 'guns' were teleported or brought back 'from the future' the DM referenced "flaming oil" & "lightning bolts", the only thing it started was an arms race.... it was dropped by most as a bad idea. I have always envisaged D&D as prior to 1400, which would make even crude bombards and handguns rare; however chemical combustion was possible, ref' "greek fire",... (flaming oil etc). Warhammer was always pitched around 1500+, just look at many of the costumes. The other world changing thing that happened between those dates was the invention of the printing press: this made possible mass communication, ushered in the age of enlightenment and brought an end to 'medieval' europe. This begs the question can you do a print run of a spell book ! or 9th level spell scrolls! Also the ability to produce quality steel (magic weapons: lighter sharper shinier) was developed at this time. So I always keep to pre 1400AD. If you play Traveller set your game at Tech Level's 3 or below, then you have an inclusive system where you can play "Cowboys & Aliens (movie) & Aztecs (pre1400 culture)" Sorry to ramble on, but your vid's always get the brain working.

[@BDSquirrel]

Good lesson on the history of firearms in D&D. I remember playing with a friend who was running 2nd edition and questiones if we really wanted to deal with firearms in the campaign. We all agreed to not allow them. Probably for the best as my invoker mage would have been making the biggest booms that he could with them. Bazookas, anyone?

[@daddyrolleda1]

I love hearing about people's old games! Thanks for sharing. We didn't use them either, except for the time I joined an ongoing game of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, as they were built into the game rather than tacked-on.

[@shawncayton2889]

Fun fact, knights used guns but, shinobi and samuri loved and used guns way before Europe got their hands on it

[@daddyrolleda1]

Thank you for watching and commenting! I adoption of firearms across various different social classes of warfare in both Europe and Asia is a really interesting topic!

[@kuriboh635]

Not really. Guns where brought to Japan by the Portuguese. They did a demistration to a lord of some type by shooting a duck on water and seeing the power and ability of their guns he purchased 2, one for him, and one for his smith to make copies of. But they really loved guns after their introduction and it became a legitimate martial and is still practiced by some schools in japan to this day

[@shawncayton2889]

@kuriboh635 thanks for the fact check

[@kuriboh635]

@shawncayton2889 you're welcome. Hopefully it didn't come across qs an "um actually" type thing. I'm on a fishing trip, so u had to type and post that pretty fast.

[@shawncayton2889]

@kuriboh635 you're fine. I knew that about guns one point but forgot it

[@TheValarClan]

additionally, dealing with Blackmoor dave’s world was a persistent one where magic and science worked in the same universe. You can also see reflections of that later on when in the dungeon Masters guide you see gamma world listed as a supplement for dungeons and dragons complete with conversion tables. Dave Arneson loved rational science behind the Magic. I believe the first magic missile fire came from a phaser in a game where Romans were invading England. David Megarry and Peter Gaylord got really worked up over that one there’s also an interesting story about the egg of coot. Which in a private conversation I might let you know a little more information. Plus as I’ve described before star probe and star empire original map, not the one you see published, had Blackmoor on it.

[@daddyrolleda1]

I've always enjoyed the science-fantasy elements of Blackmoor, and as I mentioned in the video (and also my review of the 1E DMG), my favorite section of that book is the Sixguns & Sorcery and even moreso the Mutants & Magic sections. They were very inspiring and creative to me at the time and I still find them that way now. That's an interesting story about the magic missile. Thanks! I've heard some interesting things with regard to the Egg of Coot, specifically how it's described in First Fantasy Campaign, and also Gary's description of "Nosnra" the Hill Giant Chief from module G1. I would hope the stories I heard aren't true as they're not very flattering! I like that Blackmoor appears on a variety of maps such as the Star Probe/Star Empire map you mention, as well as Greyhawk and the "Known World" (later Mystara), plus the map from First Fantasy Campaign. It creates a lot of fun possibilities for how it could be the "same" Blackmoor intersecting all those areas.

[@bromossunstarranger8706]

excellent video! can you do a video on the History of the Alchemist Class it would be very informative thank you

[@Elkantar_Rostorgh231]

I use the Boot Hill Firearms in the AD&D DMG in my campaign as I run a wild west version of Greyhawk and love using firearms in my games.

[@SusCalvin]

I know it borders on sci fi and modern settings where firearms are standard, but post-apocalyptic games sometimes had a wild mix between medieval and even pre-iron age weapons and tools and the remnants of technology. Sometimes they fill the niche of a magic weapon in a fantasy game. Your starting PCs in Metamorphosis Alpha carry clubs, bows and simple spears and knives with hide armour and live as hunter-gatherers in one of the biomes of the Warden. These weapons typically do one dice of damage. Through adventures you can find more advanced things like a non-lethal riot rifle, laser pistols and stun rods with much more advanced capacity. Anything you might expect in a 1970 bubble helmet spaceship. When you found one, you also had to power it and find ammunition. Using these things required understanding them. Humans had few advantages compared to mutants, but were slightly better at understanding these things. Intelligence mattered and gave a higher chance. Humans also had a hidden advantage, all technology on the starship Warden is made for them. Robots will treat humans as humans but might see a mutant as a pest. All armour is made for human physiology without a sprawl of eight arms. A medical station that can easily diagnose a human might get confused by a plant-man. In Mutant, the standard new tech was flintlock pistols and sabres. The new civilizations are rising, and all of them want to secure more of the ancient treasures. Here you played a strange minigame to understand tech where you moved a pawn forward, sideways or backwards on a chart. Robots, highly intelligent people and humans in cryo had an advantage. Except Twilight 2000. There is nothing wild and gonzo in Twilight 2000.

[@DMTalesTTRPG]

I am on the “no firearms” side of things, but Barrier Peaks is my favorite old school mega dungeon! Keep it weird and rare and it’s cool.

[@GravesRWFiA]

historically muskets replaced bows because of the low learning curve. it takes a lot less to train riflemen than bowmen but up to the 1700 a long bow was far more deadly We had muskets etc but their slow reload time made them less popular. so a couple of fighters had pistols but once they were fired they were on with swords not reloading.

[@daddyrolleda1]

Totally makes sense and I tried (perhaps unsuccessfully) to articulate some of these points during the video. One of the arguments against the "it's easier to train riflemen than bowmen" from a game mechanics standpoint is that a 0-Level Human (in early game terminology) has the exact same chance to hit with either an arquebus or a longbow. There are no differences. In module N4 "Treasure Hunt," there are rules for 0-level characters who can only be proficient in dagger, dart, or staff at character creation. This would mean the non-proficiency penalty for using either an arquebus or longbow is the same. One way around that would be to increase the penalty for using a longbow to replicate the idea that a longbow is more difficult to use. Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@TactlessC]

It's kinda hard to be on the ground for "no firearms" for the sake of medieval aesthetics when you remember that plate armor and rapiers were either invented or came into popularity AFTER fire arms, and yet you see all these Arthurian and Medieval style fantasy stories where everyone's stacked up or one fancy guy has a fencing blade. I mean...if you don't want it cause it doesn't fit your world flavor that's all well and good, but if you aren't going to have Firearms that means you also can't have cannons or other black powder concepts like fireworks cause those would also be against the concept. And yet oh hey that's weird there's fireworks in Tolkein's works. If he was just honest instead of making up reasons to make him seem more legitimate it'd probably have been less of a weird issue. It's also weirder when the concept of "the realm of science will replace/muddy the realm of magic" but that's just if you're looking at it from the perspective of only single target damage output- which stopped being the job of magic once the game evolved out of being a miniature wargame. Is a Mage lugging around a crossbow when they can't cast Magic Missile any better than them having a rifle in terms of "theming"? Just because the Wizard rather whip out a pistol to save on Spell Slots doesn't mean the Illusionist is suddenly out a job.

[@Tysto]

4:00 D-- Did he say "aqua bus"? 5:15 Yes. Yes, he did say "aqua bus".

[@daddyrolleda1]

Yeah, I've been getting a lot of comments regarding my pronunciation of this word. I never knew how to pronounce it growing up, but it didn't matter because I was never saying it out loud. In preparation for this video, I looked up online to see how it was pronounced and I typed in "How to pronounce arquebus" and unbeknownst to me, for whatever reason, it defaulted to the British pronunciation, which softens the "r" sound to be almost silent. This was the phonetic pronunciation it gave me: *aa* · kwuh · buhs Later after all the comments, I went back to see how I could've been wrong and saw the toggle was set to "British" so I switched it to "American" and saw this: *aar* · kwuh · buhs So, now at least I know why everyone keeps commenting! But, the way I pronounced it is still, as I understand it, a correct way to pronounce it. I should've used an English accent! Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@marcraygun6290]

In my 3e and 5e games I came up with Thaumite a pink crystal powdered caused by magic that when put in guns and introduced to opposite charged white thaumite crystal launches a projectile, it can also be liquidised as thaumite a drug that cause users veins to glow intense pink

[@daddyrolleda1]

Sounds like a fun game! Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@SusCalvin]

I usually try to avoid special rules myself. The less special physics I need to keep in my head the better. If something is functionally a horse, I just call it a horse. If it works in a fun way I'm more interested. One game here has a magnetic and electrical revolution going on, people know the chemistry of explosives but a magnet-lock weapon is easier.

[@CaptCook999]

I used the Judges Guild Campaign settings for my campaign. It is set in a world where it was once an advanced technological society and then the Great War destroyed everything. Science and knowledge were lost but magic found its way back into the world. However, some bits of techno magic still remain, hidden here and there for the players to find. There are also a few Artifacts that can be found and one of those is a Wheel Lock Pistol. If you kill the weilder you can get the pistol, powder and ammunition. There is also an instruction sheet written in a foreign language (French) on how to load, fire and maintain it. But nothing about the "magic powder" or how to make it. So once it is gone you can't make more and if you use it all up then no alchemist can examine it to try and make more. Of course the players don't know that. So it is completely up to them to figure that out. And if they don't, then the secret dies with the last shot.

[@JestaKilla]

Great video! I have to point out that the arquebus was in 1e- it appeared in Unearthed Arcana. Also, in one of the EX modules, Murlynd appears, and he has some kind of guns, if I remember right.

[@TheValarClan]

additional correction that people get wrong about Chainmail. The rules he use was the medieval combat rules from the doomsday book. Volume five. This was the supplement before the fantasy elements were added. Dave was already using fantasy elements in his game. Also he drop using the rules because of the instant death that would come out of it and created his own set of combat rules. But it was instrumental in at least having the combat mechanics at the beginning Bear in mind he was already doing stuff before those rules came out and he was teased for not having a good set of combat mechanics for the role-playing. He tried it three times before his players revolted. there was a lot of Communication between (Dave Arneson’s) and Gygax where Arnesen was pushing for more fantasy. When it eventually got published and the name changed to Chainmaile it suddenly now had added the fantasy supplement. Clearly anyone realizes that this was something new added to the game. They said fools day was using was the rules from the doomsday book, not what everyone keeps saying Chainmail as everyone sees it. And he gives a lot of credit to Jeff paren for the work he did in those rules

[@daddyrolleda1]

Thanks for this. I assume Braunstein had some sort of combat system, yes? It appears that way from the Secrets of Blackmoor documentary when it's mentioned that some players wanted to have a duel (one of those players might have even been Arneson if I'm remembering correctly) and Wesely had to come up with some rules for that. Was Arneson using a variation of Wesely's combat rules? I was aware of the article in the Domesday Book about the LGTSA Miniatures Rules being a precursor to Chainmail but never having seen it, I wasn't sure how close it was. I also heard the Fantasy supplement was at least partially inspired by a Tolkien miniatures game in a newsletter written by Leonard Patt. I mentioned that in one of my previous videos (I forget one which one).

[@Redshirt214]

There is another fascinating case where Gary did run a D&D game with firearms in it, which was written up in Dragon Magazine and subsequently republished in the Best of Dragon Magazine Vol 1&2 that I own a copy of. Gary had two opposing teams of players build for a game, not telling them what game they’d be playing. One group built a detachment of WW2 Germans, the others a fairly well equipped group of D&D adventurers. Which to me seems nuts, I suppose it’s the sort of thing that only Gary could have pulled off as a DM! I think he specifically didn’t tell them the game plan beforehand to prevent either side from building a direct counter (otherwise the WW2 guys would probably have just brought a tank platoon!). The article provides all the stats he used to run it. In any case, the results of the game was that the D&D characters did take some damage from the more advanced weapons, but more or less prevailed over the WW2 Germans who were compelled to retreat with heavy casualties thanks to the D&D PC’s use of magic. Judging by such a result, it may be that Gary thought that actually early firearms in game mechanically would simply be pointlessly weak against most magic that PC’s can wield? Clearly he had no problem with occasional appearances of firearms and other weird situations in games or campaigns, as interesting moments or opportunities to provide interesting new opponents to PC’s, so much as he just didn’t think they fit well with the base Fantasy setting. What, I wonder, was Gary’s feelings on things more of the bomb/grenade nature? That seems to me to be the logical first step for implementation of gunpowder into a fantasy setting without turning the world upside down.

[@snorrithorfinnsson8230]

"Will a panzerfaust stop a troll Heinz?"

[@ebrim5013]

I think a big issue (in a D&D game) is AC. The most obvious way to implement firearms is to have them entirely or nearly entirely ignore AC from armor. That has a lot of follow-on implications.

[@daddyrolleda1]

Ignoring AC does seem to make some sense, and there was a partial precedence for that by referring to the Weapon vs AC table in the 1E PHB and in Greyhawk: certain weapons are more effective against certain types of armor. For whatever reason, in 2E when the re-introduced the arquebus to the game, rather than ignoring AC, it just does exploding damage (damage is 1D10; on a 10, you re-roll, and you can repeat that as long as you keep rolling a "10"). In "A Mighty Fortress," it follows this format for its firearms, but adds little quirks like "On an 8 or a 10, re-roll and add" or "On an 8, 10, or 12, reroll and add."

[@ebrim5013]

@@daddyrolleda1that’s an interesting approach. But I agree with your argument in the video that a sword can deal some pretty catastrophic damage. It’s this making armor irrelevant and the relative ease of use that drives the gunpowder revolution and changes warfare, kind of how Gary was saying. A D&D where anyone can pick up a firearm and score hits on a 10 or 11 against virtually anything, is a different game.

[@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115]

Historically speaking, armour's were able to stop the primitive bullets, but modern ammo is beyond normal armour.

[@ebrim5013]

Yeah, you might get some protection with a big asterisk. 🙂 This is a good video on it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oXazeGxuqbl8orc I once tried writing a “Western” hack for b/x. Initiative and speed begin to matter much more with firearms (see Boot Hill). I also feel the the HP (or Accumulated Damage!) abstraction starts to become less useful in a game with firearms.

[@ebrim5013]

But I’m also a big weirdo that thinks HP as a resource was a wrong turn 40+ years ago (though an understandable convenience). HD as a save vs. accumulated damage (HP) is more interesting.

[@JestaKilla]

...all right, a third post: I love Campari! Have you tried the Botanist gin? It's the first gin I've tried that I actively like.

[@daddyrolleda1]

So sorry for the delay in getting back to you! Nice to meet a fellow Campari fan! And YES - I do like "The Botanist" Gin. I had a bottle on my bar until recently (because I drank it all). Every time I got to the store after I finish a bottle, I try not to buy a bottle that I just had, so I can explore and see if there's something else I might like. But, I have returned to The Botanist a few times over the years!

[@pendantblade6361]

New sub here, I'd love to see a good video on the evolution of each class. I know DM It All has done so and Matt Colville did the same for the Fighter class, but I'd like to see your take on them.

[@daddyrolleda1]

Okay, thanks for letting me know! Part of the reason I haven't done that is exactly what you mention in terms of other (much larger) channels already having done so. I worry that people might think I was just copying them. But you're I think the second or third person who has mentioned this. Thanks for watching and commenting, and also for subscribing! I really appreciate it!

[@Vreichenbachiana]

I've always been quite wary of including firearms in D&D campaigns, though Pathfinder does have a class specifically based around them. Never quite liked how they gel with the d20 system, something about them always has felt somewhat... unwieldy to me. I tend to like very early firearms, ones that are really effectively one-shot in the timeframe of your average TTRPG combat. Hurlants from Worlds Without Number come to mind. Of course these are best in systems, where people don't overly specialize in a particular weapon type a'la D&D 3.5/PF. Like um, well Worlds Without Number. I feel like Kevin Crawford really captures the good elements of OSR games. Also, I can't really drink too often, but love Negronis too! :) Campari is awesome.

[@daddyrolleda1]

Kevin Crawford's work is great! I agree! I have that Pathfinder book (for 1E) with the Gunslinger and while it was an interesting approach, I do take your points that I don't really think guns work well in a fantasy setting with mechanics that involve specializing. But, for something like the Iron Kingdoms, I think it works okay as that setting was designed from the ground up to include firearms. Campari is great! My wife sadly hates it, so when I make cocktails, I have to ask, "Hey, do you want a cocktail?" If she says "Yes" then I usually have to make some variation of a sour with spirit, sugar, and citrus (maybe adding a liqueur or whatever). But if she says, "No thanks" then I'll do a stirred-and-strong and often it will involve Campair. I also enjoy a "Ferrari" which is half Fernet Branca and half Campari. My local bartender taught me that trick. Cheers!

[@russellharrell2747]

All hail the aquabus!

[@daddyrolleda1]

Yes, I've gotten *so many* comments on that! As soon as I first read that word back in the 80's as a kid, I never knew how to pronounce it. When I was working on making this video, I did the following (try it out and you'll see): * Google "How to pronounce arquebus." * Make sure the setting at the top is set, without your knowledge or without you paying attention, to "British pronunciation" not "American pronunciation" * Record a video and pronounce it that way, and then wait for all the comments telling you that you pronounced it incorrectly! It's all good. It's just so funny that, on a percentage basis, the majority of the comments I got on this video were all related to how I pronounced "arquebus." I guess I don't have a lot of British viewers!

[@WilliamHostman]

5th edition Tunnels and Trolls is 1979. The printing you're showing is 90's, or maybe late 80's. (The PDF on DTRPG has the original color - a peachish color, with the image as an inset. And I have a copy of the early 80s reprint in peach.) In D&D, I avoided adding firems, not because Gygax advised against it, but because the presented forms simply were WAY too anemic given the damage mechanics.

[@josephgioielli]

Firearms until rifling became "common" (1800s most long arms were rifled. Before rifling was rserved only for special weapons) ) most weren't much more effective than and bow and far less accurate. There were used "en mass", to fire a wall of lead at the advancing enemy. One on one they weren't super effective. I just treat them as a bow that is very expensive and harder to hit with.

[@daddyrolleda1]

Depending on the kind of setting/game you're running, I think this is a good way to deal with them. Perhaps they are the purview of only a certain culture or certain species, or maybe certain cultures outlaw them, or they are the weapon of an anti-magic faction. I think there are ways to make them fun and interesting, but that said, I've not used them (yet) in any campaigns I've run. Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@dontyodelsohard2456]

I have always been a fan of mixing firearms and magic... Or at least cannons and such. Although most everyone I know the opinions of on this very niche topic say no, not even cannons. Although I might say this is because a lot of my fantasy inspiration is coming from Pathfinder's Golarion which is very much a purely "Kitchen Sink Fantasy" where one place has steampunk cowboys, while just down the road is Japanese folklore, and what's that, you want to travel through space in the belly of a whale? They have that, too. I mean, that takes it a bit too far for my liking even, but to me the golden age of piracy and medieval swordplay can easily go hand in hand without too much of a stretch.

[@daddyrolleda1]

I do like the Golarion setting, so I agree with you that I think there can be room for both "traditional" fantasy and primitive firearms in a setting. I have black powder in the game I run for my daughter. Mostly the characters have encountered it in the form of barrels stacked up in certain locations, which they become a potential hazard during combat n the event they accidentally get set on fire!

[@EisenKreutzer]

I think you might want to take a closer look at the word "arquebus" and it's pronounciation. Though it is hilarious to imagine the role of water-based motorized mass transportation in fantasy roleplaying games.

[@daddyrolleda1]

I've received so many comments on this! Ever since I first read this word, I was never 100% sure how to pronounce it, so in preparation for recording the video, I went to Google and typed in "How to pronounce arquebus." The first result that popped up gives you a box that shows the spelling, then reads: "Sounds like *aa* · kwuh · buhs" Then had a icon image of a speaker that you can click to hear the pronunciation, which does leave out the "R." Sadly I didn't go any further so I just used this pronunciation. What I hadn't noticed when I did this, is that for some reason there is a toggle at the top of the box was set to "British pronunciation". It's only if you switch to "American pronunciation" that it reads: "Sounds like *aar* · kwuh · buhs" Turns out in the British pronunciation, the "R" is softened so much that it's undetectable in the pronunciation. It's still a "correct" form of pronunciation, but so many people have commented that I pronounced it "wrong"! Anyway, I hope it didn't reduce your enjoyment of the rest of the video too much. And, I'd like to thank you so much for your support and for being a subscriber. I really appreciate it!

[@brennonr]

Just an aside but one of the forms of elrics blackblade, or rather the eternal champions blade, is the black needle gun.

[@daddyrolleda1]

Thanks for that! That's a great catch!

[@DragonKingZero]

I feel like the "fantasy" part of the setting would be a bigger factor for the lack of firearms than the "medieval" part - specifically the question "what niches could firearms fill that aren't already filled with magic?" (EX: Magic Missile = Rifle, Fireball = Grenade Launcher, Alchemist's Fire = Napalm, Meteor Swarm = Tactical Airstrike, etc.).

[@TheValarClan]

both Dave and Gary settled on the concept this would be medieval. Firearms started coming into history when the renaissance started. And it started when we started having more regular trade and information coming out of China which included the information about gunpowder. They also felt it was a little too powerful for the game.

[@daddyrolleda1]

As you mentioned below, Dave seemed to be pushing for more fantasy in the game. Do you know they "settled" and keep the original game more grounded and less fantastical than Dave's Blackmoor? Was it just the desire to keep it Medieval or were there other aesthetic or mechanical concerns?

[@geoffwaldon]

Black powder weapons came into being during the Mediaeval period. This included canon, handguns and grenade type devices. Armour did not reach its pinnacle until the middle of the Renaissance.

[@TheValarClan]

@@geoffwaldonIt came into being at the end of the Medieval period as the Renaissance took hold and technology from China came over.... which is part of what kicked off the Renaissance and ended the Medieval period. The moment it starts showing up in areas we have the end in those areas of the Medieval period. I know this can be confusing for some, since a lot of Medieval practices and attitudes still hang around. But it really is one of the hallmarks of its end, and a start of something new and interesting.

[@geoffwaldon]

The real reality of gunpowder in a fantasy setting is that everything a gun can do, you can actually do better, cheaper and more reliably with magic. There was never any real reason to develop them beyond the badics and leave them as a mostly curious affectation - or roleplaying flavour.

[@SusCalvin]

The gunner career in WFRP is more than a chap with a handgun. It's a light artillery officer. You can oversee a battery of light artillery, bombards, more of them the higher your Initiative. You don't own a cannon yourself but you work in the artillery train of people who do. I think it's an advanced career, meaning you can't start as one. Metamorphosis Alpha and later Gamma World would also have a chart or other rules for figuring out advanced technology. A PC in these games is not necessarily going to understand what a laser pistol is, how a robot will react or how to use advanced drugs and medical kits. PCs in MA had a chance to hurt themselves, the game measured how risky different items were. Sometimes you opened up a box and it was plutonium pellets.

[@stanleyteriaca2184]

I'm pondering about the history of Champions rpg.

[@daddyrolleda1]

I can add that to the list of potential future topics! Thank you so much for watching and commenting.

[@stanleyteriaca2184]

@@daddyrolleda1 You welcomed.

[@RobbyMaQ]

Firearms have always seemed way too overpowered in D&D despite the wargaming upbringings. I've struggled with this concept as a whole. It's either ALL firearms, or NO firearms in the RPGS I've played. Also, Rosemary Clooney! Come on a My House! (also George Clooney's Aunt, who appeared in an episode of ER with her nephew early in the series)

[@comradestannis]

True enough. Just kinda breaks the mechanics and rules.

[@daddyrolleda1]

Nice to meet a fellow Rosemary Clooney fan who actually knows who she is and to whom she's related. I watch "White Christmas" every year with my daughter, so any time later in the year a non-Christmas Clooney song comes up on my Spotify, I always tell her, "Remember Betty from White Christmas...?" I'm sure she's tired of that by now.

[@Thagomizer]

They really aren't, though. 1d10 damage with the possibility of adding an additional d10 if you roll max damage, ignoring base bonuses from armor, but a ridiculously slow loading time with a 15 speed factor? A skilled archer or arbalester can kill you a lot faster, with more shots.

[@jeremymullens7167]

Steven King moved fiction in a direction to accept it. Pathfinder had a class to be like his character that used guns. You just need firearms to be in the same position magic is. Lost knowledge that’s jealously guarded when found. Lots of early guns look about like crossbows game mechanic wise. Cannons and bigger guns are more siege weapons. And why have a cannon when you can have a mobile multi shot mage that can destroy armies. Jack Vance’s dying earth is set in the far future. Technology existed past what is possible now. People just don’t know how to make and use guns. The people who start to understand old technologies are the wizards and they hoard the knowledge to gain control. The pre-Conan stories blended sci-fi and fantasy. The Conan stories were influenced by sci-fi. There’s room if you want it.

[@RobbyMaQ]

@@jeremymullens7167 The Gunslinger Series! Good point there, and loved that setting/series!

[@comradestannis]

How do you make your shirts and merchandise?

[@daddyrolleda1]

I work with a graphic designer. For some of them, I came up with a concept and had him execute the idea for me. For others like the patents, I wrote to the patent office for permission but then had my graphic designer clean up the images. Thank you for watching and commenting!

[@comradestannis]

@@daddyrolleda1 Thanks! I might try the same thing with my channel. Any other advice?

[@Syndicate_01]

Personally, I like and have shot guns longer than I've been into D&D, but I don't love the idea of blending the two in traditional fantasy TTRPG's. With one exception being if the game is specifically meant to be Renaissance / Enlightenment / Early Modern tech levels as opposed to medieval / dark ages / ancient. And even then, I'd prefer traditional medieval 9 out of 10 times. Games like Cyberpunk, White Wolf (modern) games, Star Wars, Warhammer 40k RPG, etc are obviously a different matter entirely. Same with bizarro games like Troika where basically everything is permitted.

[@pelinoregeryon6593]

15:29 I think the Barrier Peaks module (S3) was really only created as a 'teaser' for their new Gama World RPG, a marketing tool to promote that new game to their existing D&D customer base? so I'd consider that it was perhaps only intended as a novelty one shot that wasn't intended to be taken seriously as part of any existing D&D lore or campaign and wouldn't give it any weight on this issue. There's a section in the Manual Of The Planes I think is pertinent to the gun discussion, towards the back iirc, I'll see if I can find it and get back to you. Well that didn't take long, found it straight off .. p117, Prime Material Planes, Physical Factors (PF), a standard Ad&D campaign is stated as having a rating of 0, only speaks to their current intent and thinking for their core game at time of publishing of course.

[@daddyrolleda1]

Yeah, for sure on S3. It was originally played at Origins in 1976 to introduce players to Metamorphosis Alpha (the pre-cursor game, of sorts, to Gamma World, which was published by TSR that year). Gamma World was published in 1978, whereas S3 wasn't published until 1980. But I do agree with your overall point that was more of a one-off or novelty. The point I was trying to get across, perhaps without articulating it that well, is that the lines blurred one some of this stuff in early D&D, and Gary does cite many science-fantasy and sword-and-planet fiction series as inspirations in Appendix N. Dave included even more science-fantasy elements in Blackmoor but those were toned down considerably by Gary when he wrote D&D. Thanks for that citation on Manual of the Planes. That's my most recent AD&D acquisition, as I never had that book back in the day and only recently acquired it earlier this year, so I haven't had time to go through it all.

[@pelinoregeryon6593]

@@daddyrolleda1 Metamorphosis Alpha? from old memories of White Dwarf articles that was set on a generation ship wasn't it? I always forget that one came first, probably because I never got my hands on it and only ever had Gamma World 🙂

[@jameswalton2080]

Well what’s your opinions on firearms In your home games

[@daddyrolleda1]

Ah! It depends on the setting and also, honestly, my mood at the time. In my long-running 3E/3.5/Pathfinder1E game, there are no firearms although interestingly when I had begun working on that campaign back in the 2E games, I had intended for there to be firearms, mostly in the hands of the Dwarves. But when 3E first came out, there were no rules for firearms and I didn't want to take the time to invent them, so I removed them from my setting. For my daughter's game, which is built on 1981 Moldvay Basic ("B/X"), the PCs have encountered, a few times, brigands who have stockpiles of barrels of "black powder" which have often exploded during combat when exposed to a wayward torch or lantern. I haven't introduced actual firearms quite yet, but I suspect I will at some point as they continue their travels. This particular setting is somewhat influenced by the original Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay setting with a faux late-16th Century aesthetic and firearms can fit into that. Coincidentally, for the "Alchemy, Explosives & Inventions" book I'm Kickstarting soon (created for Old School Essentials, so compatible with B/X), I created a Demolitionist class who uses black powder weapons like hand-thrown bombs. How about you? Do you (or have you) used firearms in your fantasy D&D games?

[@crimfan]

Guns probably wouldn’t change the small unit tactics of elite fighters nearly as much as they did the battlefield. A Mighty Fortress actually discusses this a bit. The logistics tail of archers is MASSIVE compared to guns. Archers used up huge numbers of arrows. Also, training a gunner was akin to a crossbowman, i.e., much easier, as is manufacture. Making a longbow was difficult and expensive. Early handguns were not too dissimilar to crossbows in terms of manufacture and technique. Even the English abandoned the longbow over the course of the 16th Century and the very last uses as a battlefield weapon were in the 17th Century.

[@Tysto]

I'm 100% with GG. Firearms were the destruction of armor, archers, spears, knighthood, castles, and everything else associated with the medieval period. Now, I love a good pirate story, but the two don't mix. Even the literature changed from dragons and griffons to savages and sailing ships.

[@highlorddarkstar]

The Treaty of Westphalia was the end of Feudalism. Guns changed what castles looked like (high walls were out). Swords didn’t disappear until WWI. Spears (as the bayonet) are still hanging on. I think telegraph and radio did far more to push out the space for fantasy in the “real world”.

[@Mulletmanalive]

I actually think Gary was really clear in that letter to the editor: firearms don’t work because they’re a mix of mundane chemicals. The early game was far less inclined to block player knowledge rather than character knowledge (see his rationale for the tomb of horrors), so science is essentially not a thing in the setting, otherwise you get players bringing in stuff like Archimedean claws and so forth because we know how they were worked at the time but an average village tough would have no idea about, similarly the ability to look up how to distill hemlock should not yield infinite lethal poison. This was the same problem that 3e had with the peasant rail gun, a trick that only fails because there’s no in game mechanic for transferring inertia and simply ends up with a peasant throwing a club normally after it’s moved a long way (and always conveniently ignores that if the transit applied a bonus to damage, the club would also disintegrate due to friction but hey).

[@RocKnight11]

When you were talking about High Fantasy, you call it a heartbreaker... what is heartbreaker?

[@daddyrolleda1]

Oh! So sorry for the delay in getting back to you. A "Heartbreaker" in the context of D&D and role-playing games is *somewhat* of a negative term, referring to a glut of games published mostly in the 90's that are just slight variations on Dungeons & Dragons, but which purport to make the game "better." Usually by the time they are published, their so-called innovations are not considered innovative any more. Almost all of them are created by folks who are *only* familiar with Dungeons & Dragons. I recall almost immediately after I discovered D&D in the early 1980's, that there were a bunch of changes I would make that I thought would improve the game immensely, and it never occurred to me that thousands of other players must have already thought of those ideas and either decided they didn't work or, perhaps they worked great but they'd already published them. Had I decided to write my own version of D&D with these changes without having this context, that would have been considered a "Heartbreaker." Hope that helps!

[@konsumterra1]

RQ had dwarves with guns pretty early

[@crawdadandtheboilers]

It's funny, for someone who like Gygax shying away from guns as being anachronistic, but he includes druids, who by around the fall of Rome, were all but gone from the British isles, and fighting monks, which aren't just anachronistic, but so far outside the common European-style setting, they weren't even included in Dragonlance. I do think the way they were presented in 2nd edition made them far too powerful, having "blow-through" damage where rolling the max on a die allows you to roll again. I think making their damage akin to any other ranged weapon, maybe giving them two dice instead of one, for example, is fair. That makes the damage, especially on a crit, much more dynamic, but not so overpowered. And really more realistic. After all, when I was in the Army, I would point out the Northfield bank raid by the James-Younger gang. Two of the Younger brothers received multiple wounds, yet still lived, one dying a few years later in prison from pneumonia, the other lived to see freedom and I think died in his late 70s. So gunshot wounds aren't necessarily as deadly as people are led to believe. Like I said, with a little tweaking of the rules (and adhering to reloading times for them), they could be fun.

[@SimonAshworthWood]

The idea that “guns are against the spirit of a fantasy game” is a subjective claim. There is no single “spirit of fantasy gaming”. It’s whatever you enjoy.

[@johnscotto5045]

Is it possible he didn’t want firearms rules in D&D to cut into Boot Hill (TSR Old Wedt RPG) sales? Or alternatively he wanted D&D players who wanted to use firearms to buy Boot Hill? In the DMG (AD&D 1E) Gary specifically mentions crossover with Boot Hill, if memory serves.

[@daddyrolleda1]

Yes - I mention Boot Hill and "Six Guns & Sorcery" at this point in the video! kzbin.info/www/bejne/bYrEpKqXhtangsksi=r13R6CqdCXEsax8b&t=1031

[@johnscotto5045]

@@daddyrolleda1 🤦‍♂

[@haydenhudleston3738]

I believe, with the r before the q, it's pronounced "arkibus"

[@daddyrolleda1]

A lot of people have commented on this. I went to Google and typed in "How to pronounce arquebus?" and there was a result at the very top with a phonetic spelling and a speaker symbol where you could hear it being pronounced, so that's what I used. The phonetic spelling was: Sounds like *aa* · kwuh · buhs Unfortunately, I didn't catch that for whatever reason, the pronunciation toggle was set to "British" instead of "American." In the British pronunciation, the "r" sound is softened so much that it becomes almost non-existent, as shown in the phonetic spelling, but it's still technically a "correct" pronunciation. I hope you enjoyed the rest of the video that my pronunciation wasn't too distracting.

[@TroyKnoell]

I agree with Gary that guns don't belong in D&D. I don't allow them in my games. I would allow explosives. But they would be very hard to make and expensive. Also, there would be a chance that they wouldn't go off. My idea of a D&D setting would be the Roman era.

[@daddyrolleda1]

Nice! I like all those ideas, and I do have black powder in the game I run for my daughter, but no guns. There are usually just limited barrels of the stuff used for siege warfare, but occasionally they end up in the hands of bandits and potentially catch fire and perhaps explode for a dynamic scene during close-quarter combat! I created a "Demolitionist Class" for Old School Essentials that is part of my supplement on Expert & Specialist Characters that should hopefully be coming to Kickstarter soon. You might enjoy it if you like the idea of explosives but not guns. And for a Roman Era game, you might like this blog post I wrote! daddyrolleda1.blogspot.com/2024/02/fantasy-rome-mini-setting-for-old.html

[@TroyKnoell]

@@daddyrolleda1 I did a quick read on it. It's pretty cool. Nice job! I'll read it more thoroughly when I have more time.

[@daddyrolleda1]

Awesome - thank you! I just looked at it again and noticed how the formatting on the table was all wonky. Hopefully you can get the gist. The other place you can find it is here, with better formatting but no "commentary": instagram.com/p/C24H_JLuiql/

[@TheValarClan]

some major corrections for you. Braunstein was a complete role-playing game. In the fact that it was a game, role-playing was the only action going on. It isn’t the later derived thing that we see with stats or worse yet a arcade with choose your own adventure that you see in computer games. you were given back story information, motivations and goals. A lot of people get it wrong and claim it’s a war game. It was not and it wasn’t Proto role-playing. You are literally acting out your part role-playing it. when Dave Wesley was heading off to the military RS and had been quietly working on his medieval game setting and had asked Wesley if he could continue developing his Braunstein. Wesley gave them permission. Also the advertised game that you see in the corner of the table top is not the first game. That was the first game he felt confident enough to let other people in on it. If you ever talk to Greg Svenson he will tell you the same thing. Not only that but his story which predates the advertisement he felt that others were playing the game before he joined in. That’s because they knew the rules already for the most part having played test it

[@daddyrolleda1]

Ah, yes, I knew the one advertised wasn't the "first" game - sorry for misspeaking. I was thinking like first "bigger audience" kind of thing. The semantics of these early games can be tricky. Based on how they were described, I would have thought Braunstein, Brownstone, and Blackmoor were role-playing games as well, but from what I recall, the Secrets of Blackmoor documentary was very specific and careful in its language with how it described them, and I was trying to follow suit so as not to confuse anyone, as I often direct people back to that documentary for more information. But I take your point. Even D&D wasn't marketed as a role-playing game at the time, because that term to describe games like that didn't exist! With regard with the players being given back story information, motivations, and goals, that has been one thing I've been very interested in. So, did Arneson (or Weseley for Braunstein) make all that stuff up for each player, or was their collaboration with the players offering ideas as well? And I think the part about the war game aspect is that, at least from what I understand, the early Braunstein and Blackmoor games weren't necessarily cooperative with the players; as you mentioned, they were given goals that (again, based on my understanding) could potentially compete with each other, creating a sort of player-vs-player that's more akin to a traditional board game (and the war games these games derived from that featured players controlling armies to achieve a goal) versus the way we think about a typical D&D game these days with a party all working toward a common objective. But I do understand Blackmoor also evolved over time to become more cooperative, from what I understand.

[@lexington476]

I do agree with no firearms, it does takes away from the medieval /ancient/pre-industrial setting. If we want to play with firearms, we can play Pike and shot euro, we can play revolutionary Civil War era. Also remember bullets run out, Spears and swords don't 🙂.

[@scottmarsh2991]

I like primitive firearms. There’s a lot of room for creativity. Someday I’ll strike a good balance between just-for-flavor, reskinned crossbows and more realistic, armor-piercing guns.

[@daddyrolleda1]

I also really like the idea of primitive firearms, in certain settings, and worked for a long time to figure out how to include them in a campaign setting I began working on back in the mid-80's. I still have never used them in a setting but I have used bombs and had kegs of black powder that could be lit on fire (usually accidentally, leading to some unforeseen consequences!). Thank you for watching and commenting!

[@nicklarocco4178]

The introduction of firearms in a medieval fantasy game is a great way to persuade your characters to waste 3 turns reloading their guns instead of hitting things with swords. I just find them to be a waste of time. I play in a lot of Warhammer though, and even then its rare for PCs to use gunpowder weapons just because they're prohibitively expensive to buy, and sourcing gunpowder is difficult.

[@daddyrolleda1]

After I moved between my sophomore and junior year, I lost my game group and it took me a while to find a new one. By the time I did, there were announcements that AD&D 2E was coming out soon, but these new friends were playing Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. I was given a character sheet with a PC that had a pistol but his shooting skills was something like 35% and that was after this PC had been played for like a year (I took over a PC of someone who left). I remembered thinking, "I'm never going to have this guy shoot his pistol!"

[@nicklarocco4178]

@@daddyrolleda1 mad max it. Just threaten people with the pistol. They don't know it isn't loaded!

[@TwinSteel]

Clearly all automated gnomish rock throwers

[@daddyrolleda1]

The best kind of firearms!

[@SusCalvin]

Firearms in WFRP 1e don't have many special rules at the start. Like other ranged weapons they don't get a Strength bonus to damage (a sword would deal a d6+Strength Wounds) but an innate Effective Strength around +3 or +4 so a hobbit with a crossbow can still whack you. Handguns deal about the same damage as a crossbow, d6+4 Wounds. Later on, they got a point of armour pen. A PC in armour (full mail and plate being armour 2) would get one point knocked off. I have read people who improved this further by letting firearms roll damage with advantage. Bombs exist but are cantankerous devices. A field gun is most likely far above the funds of the PCs. Reload is penalized, 2 rounds reload with a gun compared to 1 with a crossbow and none with bows. It's still not a special weapon. No one in the world is surprised by firearms, and might as well pull their own firearms on you. In town it's easy (relatively, WFRP at low level is a penny-pinching game) to get them and powder in cities. Not so much in small villages that do not have a mechanic on standby. But then you're not going to get a warhorse and a plate suit instantly on demand in the outskirts of Bögenhafen either. A lighter bow or a crossbow is cheaper. GW often tacked on special rules on top of special rules as they went on. They did this with surgery, when someone wrote a page-ful of rules about getting treated by a surgeon when they felt like it in an adventure. And with madness, when someone writing for WD thought it would be cool to have an asylum. There was a couple articles who did this for firearms and bombs and tacked on more rules and new guns like jezails, hand cannons etc. Rules for variabe, extra rules for fumbling etc.

[@konatelassina5301]

Isn’t an Aqua-bus used by a school of fish?

[@daddyrolleda1]

Ha! Yes, I've received many comments to that effect. See my video here in which I explain this pronunciation: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aZrKeJaOm6ucaa8si=CPhFEvDCW5n9hIgk&t=101

[@epone3488]

Guns not being in RuneQuest isn't odd as its at a predominantly Bronze age level of tech. Mostali do have access to guns in the supplemental material. Id venture to suggest that Gary's imagination of the base D&D world was closer to 12-13th century. Warhammer is much latter in the time line being a type of faux 16th century - long-guns and hand guns becoming common in ~14th century. Honestly it was really odd when TnT introduced gunnes Im not sure they are a great fit for the way we played but mechanically they are sound.

[@TwinSteel]

Is it AQUA-bus, ARK-wu-bus or ARK-uh-bus?

[@daddyrolleda1]

I honestly have never known how to pronounce it, and I knew it was going to come up multiple times during this video, so I looked it up and watched videos on how to pronounce it. The phonetic spelling I got was: *aa* · kwuh · buhs (emphasis on the first syllable). It sounded weird even as I was saying it, because always leaned more heavily on the "r" sound!

[@fpassow1]

It's how island kids get to school.

[@yourseatatthetable]

I've had a few campaigns that included crude firearms that went pretty well, but that said, they're not really suited for the genre in my opinion

[@spudsbuchlaw]

Gun belong more in the middle ages than magic does. At least guns actually existed lol

[@daddyrolleda1]

So true! That made me laugh. Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@nobody342]

Guns shortly lead to no need for armor, and if you dont have armor, then its a modern game, and not a fantasy game. Guns change everything, including Technology. Ive never had guns in my D&D and I dont use them in my fantasy wargaming either. Guns change everything!

[@daddyrolleda1]

From what I understand, I think Gary Gygax would've approved of your statements! Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@sweatband100]

I’m confused as to how guns invalidate armor, if I attack an NPC Knight with an arquebus I still have to beat his AC in order to deal dmg. Now, this may negatively impact your sense of verisimilitude, but mechanically speaking the AC bonus of Full Plate doesn’t care if the attack is from a long sword, crossbow bolt, or musket ball.

[@nobody342]

@@sweatband100 THere was a period of time that at least some of the full plate armors breastplates anyways were bulletproof to the early guns, but once the guns became better, the armor had to become thicker to the point it was to heavy and also much more costly, but once the guns progressed to a certain point, you can think about is like this. "Even though I'm wearing all this expensive armor, Im still AC10 against someone using a firearm!, because the armor eventually could not stop the bullets" If you become AC 10 ( ie like no armor at all) and everyone now is using firearms, then why would you go through all of the expense and bother of wearing armor. Ya, maybe its good against the bayonets attached to the firearm, but other then that its useless, and as history shows us, armor was dropped from use. There were a very few people wearing armor I believe into the 1800's but it was very rare, and mostly just breastplates if I recall right. A long time ago, ( like maybe in the late 1970's or I'm Guessing) the American Rifleman magazine had a article where they tested a piece of medieval 15th or 16th century breastplate against modern firearms, it was effective against lighter pistol rounds, but not against something like a 357 mag. Wish I had that article, my dad threw that issue out!

[@SNDKNG]

It's hard to justify firearms coinciding with magic. Or rather, if you do, it feels like that has to be a central element in your worldbuilding and game system. It's not Sword and Sorcery or Heroic Fantasy, so what themes are you trying to explore?

[@daddyrolleda1]

While I've though about it, in 42+ years of gaming, I've also never included them. But, I do think in the right setting/world, it could be fun to use both even though it would be straying from the sword-and-sorcery roots of the game. But in a Solomon Kane style game that included dark magic, I think it could be fun.

[@SNDKNG]

@@daddyrolleda1 I tried it, unsuccessfully, in a 5e game i was running based loosely off of Rime of the Frostmaiden. The problem was that I couldn't make it mechanically compelling to use while balancing gunpowder weapons against real, grounding constraints - they just take so much longer to load and fire, so either you're sacrificing a player's fun in combat, or the game's realism. As artifacts, I think sci-fi firearms can work. Otherwise, I'm skipping them!

[@crawdadandtheboilers]

Dude, the adventure came out in the late 70s. It's a little late for spoilers.

[@daddyrolleda1]

Ha! Fair enough! I was just trying to be cognizant of some newer gamers who only recently entered the hobby due to 5E but are now looking to explore older editions (which is a subset of gamers that seems to be a bit larger than I would have thought!). Hopefully you enjoyed the rest of the video. I really do appreciate you watching and commenting.

[@PhalisoBringerOfDoom]

Gary Gygax didn't know what an arquebus was lol