Do New Idols Actually Suck? Or are we biased?

[@shanliekpop]

I think the general opinion going around is that idols today are a lot less talented than they used to be (vocally). Although it may be somewhat true focus on vocals has shifted away, it *depends more in the year of kpop than the generation in my opinion.* Especially if you notice the first half of 3rd gen (closer 2nd gen standards) to the latter half of 3rd gen (closer to 4th gen vocally). 2020 to 2021 has been the most severe case of 100% lip sync stages I've seen so far but live singing has come in and out of popularity since the 1st gen.

[@ifrankleerarelyspeak]

Found out that music shows and artist/artist company prefer these nowadays because they found out people are not very good at perception, you know easily fooled. they found out that as long as it looks and sounds perfect, people will just absorb it like a sponge and they will have lots of views. Edit: i actually read it somewhere, will share it here if i find it. Don't know if its ALL true but it sounded real and reasonable. It was long af. (Forgive the grammar)

[@cocochopkitten]

at this rate they might just became a dancer instead of singer

[@alecocothunder8277]

Ithink because in this pandemic there are no live audience that much so prolly why they were doing this (and its not like theycan gain money)

[@Eastlight3806]

New idol receive so many criticism about absolutely everything but actual thing that matters...which was talent. That's why new idol focuses on those things rather than what they supposed to focused on. Sales, number, visuals, chart. Never about the quality of their music and their talent.

[@mrt1442]

Dreamcatcher has awesome and stable vocal while singing live too

[@gtblade2806]

Still don't know why SM is having all their artists lip sync during their stages now when their biggest selling point is their vocalists

[@karystea]

Not anymore, now it's their visuals,

[@popular12345-p]

Sad but true

[@naimin3550]

Because the moment they take out the autotune and the artists fail vocaly compared to the recording and past stages “fans” will jump on them and get all mad criticizing the artists vocals i mean it has happened before like the aespa encore stage when in reality its not that they cant sing SM is too scared to let them sing so the idols grown insecure about their vocals

[@fiona3275]

*visual

[@jules6578]

@@naimin3550 they would never have that problem if they allowed their idols to sing live and improve

[@glou2955]

When I (rarely) watch a “live” stage now I usually think, “This is pointless, I may as well just watch the MV.”

[@maheephoenix4398]

So true. I used to watch music shows a lot but now I just listen to the songs while studying.

[@notmybusiness3055]

I only watch the stages now to see the beautiful sets and how good they look lmao Music will be played from the mv or a music application.

[@glou2955]

@@notmybusiness3055 Good reason to watch but once I’ve seen enough and either the bad lip syncing or bad performance irritates me and I think the MV was more entertaining than this then I’m done. There are some who deliver brilliant performances but the majority are sub par.

[@hana-dul-set]

oh i feel like this too now... id rather watch radio performances (if they are even available 😔😔😔)

[@samratbiswas598]

I miss those days 💔 when singers actually used to sing

[@rubaniere]

The juxtaposition of live stages / lipsynch stage really shows how less interesting it is to watch mutiple stages now since they are essentially the exact same performance with different clothes and different camera angles.

[@94sconvs]

new clothes, new stage right?

[@historia4398]

right

[@Imyourcherryybomb]

Yeah. I rarely watch live stages nowadays for this reason. It's so boring.

[@levitatingstan6526]

Kpop Stans literally just want comebacks so they can have their favorite idols on different clothes or following a “concept”😭 that’s why photobooks are more successful than the music itself

[@mmmtastyalidzie2435]

@@Imyourcherryybomb thats why i personally love groups that regularly sing live (without straining themselves). itzy, stayc, mamamoo, nct (dream especially), now even nmixx is getting added to that list. they give a good balance between styling, concepts, and raw realistic talent

[@kaonashispirit4289]

You know how dead Tae looked lip singing GOT, she looked so bored and didn't even try to pretend to be having fun or match her mouth to the notes.

[@shanliekpop]

She knew she's too good for SMs bull

[@mennaemad1358]

Yesssss !!

[@valfromtheblock]

winter too lol

[@betheonlyangel]

Winter is really bad at lip sync too. Like, it's too obvious 😂😂😂

[@sally-dg3ml]

All sm idols look dead inside when they lipsync now :) Like they are not even trying and I don't blame them they all well trained have great techniques just to lipsync ?

[@lamoskgr]

I rememer how in 2010 Taeyeon said “I hope Music Bank creates an environment for singers to do better” but after being in the industry for 15 years, she has already given up. This is also one of her abilities, to adapt to the changing times. I'll go see her singing live at one of her concerts

[@erickreyes7902]

Cant really blame her tho... I mean I get your FRUSTRATIONS... but its basically still COVID... whats the point of doing 100% live shows when there is no audience... TAEYEON can sing nonetheless... I dont think shes the one to blame for this but the SHOW... lol...

[@lamoskgr]

@@erickreyes7902 I never complained about her though

[@reveirg9]

And I remember she got flak for that comment by haters. God damn knetizens

[@y0ung5one]

when some people said things like "it was live, but the backtrack was too loud". see I don't understand that, I don't see the point in singing live if we can't hear their voices over the loud backtrack.

[@pmo8890]

When it comes to live..the first go tht come to my mind is bigbang. The more loud the backtrack..the loudest them n their vips scream 😌

[@thylionheart]

When I watched Stray Kids MAMA 2021 performance, I got so upset because I can hear their live vocals here and there but they're so overpowered by the backing track and even just the instrumentation itself. And they don't have control over that, MNET's audio engineers do. It's like, there are performers who are singing live, but the music shows essentially sabotage them and poorly mix the audio. It's so frustrating! edit: it's not always a case of poor audio mixing, I was just thinking of certain instances where that was the case. so many times I turn on a music show on youtube and click out after 30 seconds because it's just stagnate lipsynching and I can't hear any live vocals alongside the backing track

[@Maria-uv9pd]

@@thylionheart One reason I enjoy watching fancams is that I can actually hear the performance. Yeah, I have to hear the whirr of the cameras the hum of the confetti fans, but I can hear my boys and girls song!

[@SianaGearz]

Better than nothing i would say x.x because when the mic is off, there is no vocal emotion in the performance to match the face and the moves. But it's also so insanely frustrating. Like sure sometimes venue makes it really expensive or difficult to set up a live vocal, sometimes performers are injured and decide to dance regardless but singing is off limits; we shall be generous and understanding, we take what we can get. And then this leaves you with these cases where they'll sing and capture and mixing and monitoring it's all set up; and then if only the engineer moved a couple sliders we'd be right there where we want to be. But they just go ahead and deny us that. This just feels almost malicious. Not personal malice of the engineers for sure, it's surely the requirements they have to work under. And yet, so frustrating.

[@betxengi5388]

@@thylionheart At least they didn't ruin their performance, they just wanted it to be of better quality and more perfect. I'm still mad at them because of how they ruined TXT performance

[@aneetababy1559]

My biggest pet peeve is when idols use a hand mic for their performances, meant for people when they sing LIVE... And they still choose(well technically not them, it is their company's choice) to lipsync. Like what even is the the f*cking point? Kpop is a dance competition right now. Look at Nmixx, the girls have more than decent vocals and Jyp decided to waste all that and make them a performance group(which is basically majority of what 4th gen groups are). Also nowadays there are a lot of kpop dance cover channels on KZbin, and I've been noticing that the dancers they have are usually people with idol like features and body proportions and they also do all those facial expressions and perform the song. Apart from the idol training and variety shows, what makes all those kpop groups who never sing live different from these dancers? The dancers don't sing, nor do they rap, they dance and perform. The idols do the same thing. I'm just tired of this bs.

[@shanliekpop]

The lines between backup dancers and idols are so blurred now some back dancers have fancams getting more popular then the group/ soloist XD

[@jka1165]

@@shanliekpop imagine kpop companies debuting backup dancers, chile I can't 💀

[@Havis_Princess]

There usually forced to lipsync not that they wanna.

[@sierraisstressed]

Okay but half of nmixx are dancers though. So of course jyp is going to make them a performance group

[@choiryan4312]

@@Havis_Princess they can't sing well too.... Possibly another reason there are lipsync stages.

[@rosagate5288]

Another thing I just noticed is that the amount of stages idols do has decreased. Like how before around 2009 idols had like 20 stages and now they have like 8 stages

[@realbigmandan]

I think that’s probably better for their health in the long run tbh

[@KissKing143]

Because there are alot of youtube channels to perform on other than just Music shows nowadays. Like Studio Choom, or Mnet Relay dance etc.

[@Havis_Princess]

@@KissKing143 yeah but those aren't usually pure live vocals. And I love 5he live stages

[@KissKing143]

@@Havis_Princess yes, but they are able to perform more comfortably there because it isn't live. They probably love it more since they can showcase their stage presence and choreography without thinking about singing. Plus, those usually has more views than music show stages.

[@Anisa-ig6xw]

@Daniel Murphy hmm I'm gonna disagree. Imo idols today realease stuff so fast do they even get a break?. Probably only BP lmao. Back then idols would promote the album for a longer period of time too. I say is still exhausting regarding promotions.

[@justiceformina5717]

I never notices how extreme it got. I remember live stages being so normal before but they're completley gone. I can't believe how many stages by talented singers like Red velvet, Taeyeon, Suju Ikon etc are 100% lips sync now. Mamamoo's new bragging rights will no longer be "they always sing live" to "at least they sing live sometimes" because it's so rare D=

[@Havis_Princess]

Mamamoo mainly sings live

[@harshitha_sooruthanmukkiyam]

@@Havis_Princess but as a moomoo i feel a bit sad

[@elysiajames2024]

Mamamoo still sings live, they use backtrack if they perform for long but if you've seen all their performances including solo, 95-99% live. You see the exception when its inevitable because of the show or if they're genuinely tired. Which is completely fine. The problem here is we are all desperately trying to search for live performances which are not touched up, edited or lipsyced and it's sad.

[@amandafika3118]

Yess😭 we need more live stages of these talented groups✨

[@frances3266]

@@harshitha_sooruthanmukkiyam i feel the same way. That’s why i kinda hate hip. I think when they released that song they started lip syncing.

[@starlighteuu]

ive noticed choreos are becoming harder, like way harder, to the point where its obvious they arent expecting them to sing live so they make it hard as hell. This goes for newer groups. The kpop market is trying to be perfected i guess but theres no point in live stages anymore. It might as well be a dance practice video. I hope taeyeon goes on tour again, i miss live stages with live bands at times.

[@dnamuna2279]

Lol i agree with you but when you type “ive” i thought it was IVE lmao..

[@Sakadayumi]

The groups thought "Hard and Dangerous Choreo are 100% to get the champion"? More like destroyed your body, life and dreams.

[@antonia9450]

And still some groups like Pixy come in and entice everyone with their live vocals while performing intense choreo! Check them out, they have several live stages

[@hillaryb5799]

at this point i feel like as long as you got the looks and determination you can just be an idol. talents are not that important anymore

[@starlighteuu]

@@hillaryb5799 talent has always never been the first thing people go for but it helped that at least idols contributed something, like a lot of them promoted the group through dramas and variety shows but now some group don’t even go to variety shows and instead opt for really poorly done web dramas for promotion. Some are good but obviously not all. Its like even if they go on variety shows they are restricted and we get this cookie cutter images which makes these shows boring. Now theres a bunch of members who seem like glorified backup dancers with any lines because in general their voices are either not great or very limited compared to the others. A group can have the shittiest debut on the planet but if they got pretty members people will give them tons of attention just based on the looks. This is why companys opt for it even more now as visual sells. Talent is like a optional item now in any category.

[@okaysumin]

I hope STAYC can one day popularize live singing again 🍀

[@saanvimehra5191]

👏🏻 yesss

[@etherealrenjun]

yes, PLEASE!

[@jeallean4562]

our slayc girls

[@phil3008]

LOUDER PLS!

[@yachishairclips2250]

They need to be on top of the chain to make a difference

[@maylee8745]

It's not fair to say Taeyeon doesn't value live singing anymore and only use music shows as proof. She sings live literally any where else she performs. Music Shows are quite literally the only place she lipsyncs and that's for dance songs only.

[@maylee8745]

Also the vocal cords are also muscles you can't overdo them. Of course that doesnt mean idols should never sing live. But a healthy amount of lip syncing is perfectly fine.

[@inquisitvem6723]

SM also forces their artists to lip sync…look no further than Aespa

[@horizonkyun7203]

“only music shows” bro that’s the biggest part of an idols comeback LMAO

[@maylee8745]

@@horizonkyun7203 maybe for the people you stan but not for Taeyeon. she does like 3 music show appearances, and focuses on concerts which she sings live.

[@inquisitvem6723]

horizonkyun ikr….most people watch music shows more than anything…also music shows should be 90% live because their vocals are fresh…then once they finish a few of them they can lip sync all they want…I believe all comeback stages should be 90% live being their first performance so vocals shouldn’t be tired.

[@hudafatima2564]

It's legit how the audience still thinks their idols can sound inhumanly stable while dancing to back breaking choreos, it's beyond dumb. The fans easily get pleased by hard choreos and perfect expressions lol they don't even care abt the vocals, thus idols don't work on it anymore. It's an industry in the end and it's gonna take up tactics that helps them capitalize stuff. But there still are exceptions like stayc ans seventeen. Seventeen said how they used to sing while running during their trainee days, nowadays idols train for 1-2 years only working dances and still make it to the top..

[@ranchpanda3530]

well... STAYC literally shows how they running while singing in their practice room (the whole group). other than them I watch Ive Liz doin it, but she's sounds out of breath (at least on that clip.

[@himanichand4914]

Nmixx also have great vocals and recently they did showcase in live vocals. Just hope they will continue to do it in coming years too. It's sad although being great in vocals, Aespa has to go through the tag of always lip syncing. Just hope SM can learn and understand and let them perform live. Bcuz live vocals help to connect with the audience in better way.

[@bemyhope5059]

@@himanichand4914 Even NMIXX in that showcase wasn't live bad example

[@himanichand4914]

@@bemyhope5059 really😅😅😅 but there are all news about them singing live though. Seems like I became clown 🤡🤣🤣 or not🤔🤔🤔. You can see there are many news about them singing live on debut showcase stage and yesterday's Mcountdown stage.

[@bemyhope5059]

@@himanichand4914 actually their mics are on but with loud playback i didn't hear some members voice because of that exept lily and the girl with short hair i forgot her name

[@vocallegend8381]

It's actually depressing. I got into Kpop because of the vocals in 2014. Not a lot of new western artists are powerhouse vocals, but now it's just noise.

[@twinkleegpieplayer5002]

Will Japanese artists one safe? I'm worried

[@notmyname3556]

new western powerhouse vocals? what does that even mean, what does it have anything to do with kpop 😅

[@mourningcoffee7705]

Definitely japanese artists who can't sing live are definitely not approved also the Japanese industry in general focus more on the vocals and the lyrics of the song.

[@notmyname3556]

@@mourningcoffee7705 For jpop idols, I have to admit that many of them are vocally untrained or at least not as vigorous as they could've. However, I'd say the senior groups like V6 definitely have good vocals.

[@shimpiyaa]

I got into k-pop because of cute, unique songs 😭

[@kendra4932]

Stayc is just so talented, and their company goes out of their way to show their range and real talent! I love that so much

[@dibidubu4168]

shinee is another interesting case. almost always live before last year, including 2018, and then in 2021 i’m not sure if we ever got a live stage for don’t call me/atlantis. what’s interesting is that key made a point of going on sketchbook and having at least 1 live for bad love (which was great! though probably a bit touched up), and he explicitly said that he really wanted to come to sketchbook. given how much control he had over promotions/etc i’m also pretty sure it was his own idea, not sm’s. it seems like there are a fair amount of idols that really do want to sing live again, idk why sm has become so obsessed with lip sync :( probably covid

[@sunshineinthesky2532]

Oh my god yes. Like, shinee live vocals are amazing and everyone knows that, but idk who (I can't exactly point fingers at, maybe SM, or other production team etc I don't know how it works behind the scene) decided to just take it away to make it more "perfect", which I don't think works really that well. I mean, I know shinee doesn't always perform live even before 2020s but compared to lately how almost everything has gone through post production process, I'm kind of sad, bc I'm also a big vocalists junkie. The standard is kind of ridiculous too. How can people expect someone to sound exactly the same like robots every single time? They're basically asking to take out the souls away from the music. I can see even Onew sometimes seems a bit nervous abt his vocal ability (not every time just sometimes), which is heartbreaking bc I love his voice. He's been so hardworking and taking vocal classes and everything I just want him to be able to showcase it confidently so people can appreciate him more. I feel like the only way we are sure we can hear idols singing live is when they do it during casual vlive/ig live 😭

[@kristinejxxv]

Bruh ikr. And SHINee is famously known to suck at lip syncing lol they better be live singing

[@evcim02]

@@sunshineinthesky2532 onew is gonna have cb and i hope he sings live. He was great in sea of hope

[@sunshineinthesky2532]

@@evcim02 i know he’s my favorite and I’ve been waiting for his cb too! I wish SM promotes him well this time tho

[@evcim02]

@@sunshineinthesky2532 hope so but they signed him to musical without consedering his come back timeline

[@rosiesrose2769]

Sm and yg are the worst offenders these days. Kinda ironic they were the ones known for being live beasts but now they're nothing special

[@ayurags2038]

True...

[@limbuanjali87]

Treasure sing live on stage though you can check out their recent music shows videos.

[@bp__blink]

Sm is more bcs the company is mainly known for their vocals, but still their artist go for lipsycing, then what is the use of the title which is given to the company..

[@hikun3831]

As far as I know Yg artist are singing it live thou up until now, they just put up some loud back up vocals.

[@moneyisaterriblemasterbuta3519]

From what I see sm is the only company forcing their idols to lip sync like see aespa ningning and winter are so good in vocals From yg I think BB , akmu and treasure are the only groups that sing live

[@armyisking5395]

I didn't think it would be this bad. The difference from the groups past eras is jarring

[@caitlinwin9567]

Now I am even afraid of Taeyeon going to music shows. It degrades her more and more in my opinion. I love her so so much for 13 years. The main aspect of her voice that I love is emotion and now I think she lost a bit of it cuz of lip-syn. I hope pandemic gets better and we get to hear Taeyeon concert again soon. I still love her and will do in the future too❤️

[@danissegomez7953]

That is why she rarely still goes to music shows... Unless it's her title track for a new album but other than that she prefers concerts now than music shows. GOT the beat was an exception since the song received much love from Knetz that they wanted a music show performance.... I bet if SNSD will comeback on their 15th anniversary this year, they will push in singing live to show Kpop should be!!!!!!

[@caitlinwin9567]

@@danissegomez7953 yeah I know. She usually doesn't go to music show if she has other platform to perform live (eg. her concert) I would like to have a special live performance like Happy for INVU. Still she looks so pretty in music shows tho. So, I just let it go and enjoy. If SNSD has a comeback, I would be extremely happy whatever they do. Going to music show or not, performing live or not doesn't matter at all. Just have a comeback. I miss my girls so bad

[@lisaluna931]

Taeyeon told us that she didnt like going to music shows because its tiring, they have long ass session for make up, rehearsals, etc and it can goes from 1 am till midnight. also she hates it because she is alone, and feels lonely XD thats why after fine she just drop songs, and do concert where she can get a good enviroment to sing live in front of her lovely fans. I wouldnt even take music shows seriously, because their tools suck (hello music bank from Oh era) hahaha Id prefer Taeyeon to go to sketchbook bcs they have the best enviroment to sing live

[@Tenshikichi1]

Thank god she appeared in Killing Voice recently. It elevates the situation a bit

[@caitlinwin9567]

@@lisaluna931 yeah she just went to those music shows cuz of fans. She wants to give some stage performances and fulfills fan requests including killing voice. I also didn't take music shows seriously. But still....we know she is too good to lip-syn. Just a bit sad cuz she is so energetic, lovely and being herself when performing live. Want to see that. That's all

[@bre97m]

live performances are taking a hit bc of fandom behavior and yes im very confident in saying that - nowadays a grp actually sings live (or at the very least live > backtrack) and they get relentlessly attacked, same with encore stages. i cant count the amount of times ive seen the same clips of idols making a mistake bc *surprise* that will eventually happen if they're actually singing live, no matter how good they are. i think companies would rather not deal w that when they dont have to and i cant blame them.

[@beingme._.eilonwy4571]

I think a big part is that a lot of fans think of idols as their friends or lover. They don't think "wow, I like their music." They think, "Wow, they're so pretty." There is nothing wrong with admiring someone you like, but wanting a collection of their photos (that aren't an album cover), and wanting them to do favors for you is weird. Their job is to make music, so let's support that instead of money and success (for companies).

[@betxengi5388]

It is annoying how a pre-recorded encore is called live and a real live encore is called talentless and bad.

[@jinphany.]

@@beingme._.eilonwy4571 I think its bc fans have been so used to these unrealistically high autotune performances that have the word "live" in their title, that therein disbelief when the vocalists sound "off" bc they've been to exposed to that pristine standard.

[@shatteredshards8549]

It's sort of depressing when you realize that there are groups who debuted over a year ago who have only done lipsynced performances. There has to be a balance between putting on an entertaining performance, and just plain unreasonable expectations.

[@amanhaniftambu3319]

I see whom you're talking about 👀👀👀 atleast they could've given us a radio show performance but welp... SME 🚶🚶🚶

[@Nameless_mixes]

I’m going to give SME a little slack for not know how to properly give their idols varied back tracks to lip sync to (and their idols are terrible at lip syncing…). This is because we know that their artists generally don’t need to lip sync to sound good. But yeah, they need to figure that asap. In my opinion, Taeyeon and Ning Ning look so done with lip syncing or not being able to be heard over the backtrack in some performances. And I was so disappointed to see Red Velvet lip syncing during “Queendom” performances when they’d sing live during some encore performances and sounded great (and you could tell that they were singing live because their vocals weren’t perfect). And if people care so much about the fourth gen’s vocals, just stan Aespa, Purple Kiss, and StayC (and any other groups I’md not thinking of).

[@seokiology]

i just wish they do more "sit down" songs in kpop, like just have them stand up and sing rather than dance omg i love stayc new bside young luv??? its on repeat 24/7

[@sabarihariharan2005]

The thing when a grp has vocals locals come at their performance skills and stage presence...eg. aespa but when they have killer stage presence and performance locals come for their vocal...eg. itzy The standard are so unrealized that no matter what you do it won't be enough to please the audience

[@choiryan4312]

@@sabarihariharan2005 exactly because groups like snsd, exo, seventeen, shinee, BTS had it all. They have set the standards high and we the 2nd and 3rd gen Stans are used to see their top notch performances while we also enjoyed good singing. That's one reason I think people are hating on these groups.

[@bemyhope5059]

@@sabarihariharan2005 bad example itzy even if they are standing are terrible exept lia she's average too

[@notmyname3556]

@G-Taehyung i believe they actually want to do more raw performances, for ningning's case, she does look like she didn't even try to move her mouth sometimes, yet she went 100% for dancing. Pretty sure she thought if she can't sing, might as well focus on the dance. And when I saw her on slower tempo songs like Forever and Way(the one she collabed with Onew), you can tell she had fun. Taeyeon's solo concerts has always been fun(to me, cause it's as raw as sm can possibly do), I don't think she'd mind doing live performance.

[@Jstarfully]

I panicked when I saw BP - DDDD was 2015 but then checked and it was 2018, so that change was over a much shorter time.

[@shanliekpop]

You're right, that was a weird typo on my part.

[@LunaBelllieve]

When I see this thumbnail I think about Mamamoo 😭 they don't use hand mic anymore

[@97angelkook]

sadly yes but solar also explained the reason behind it. The first switched when hip was released so they could pull off a harder choreo but now it seems like rbw does not want to change back. I miss them and their handheld mics :C

[@LunaBelllieve]

@@97angelkook yes I remember that when hip was released 😔

[@cheejeuporkeucuteuleteu]

I'm pissed that power vocal soloists like Taeyeon and even the newly debuted Yuju have to use backtrack. They dont frickin need it and its an insult to their talents. Edit: Changed the word autotune to backtrack. Realised I used the wrong word for this context

[@NH-ns3ut]

Idols aren't totally to blame It's mostly because of fans validating uselesss things over real talents and skills e.g rap songs and rappers r more popular these days but tbh kpop rappers suck .most of them aren't even rappers they were visuals who couldn't sing so they became rappers who can't rap but ppl believe they are rare gems and talented. I believe if ppl listened to real artists instead of big companies this lip sync problems wouldn't exist. I hope in the future fans understand how good their faves are at lying to them and real groups become trendy and popular

[@Slm99]

A little correction, most of them couldn't sing in the very high pitch that kpop songs are written in.

[@teresa18870]

@@Slm99 yup! Like a lot of kpop idols can sing but because they don’t hit Mariah Carey type high notes , companies just make them be a rapper lol

[@justvibing2171]

Yup

[@betxengi5388]

This. God how many idols I saw like that. They're more like speaking than rapping and just because They're fast people claim them rappers 😣

[@youre_totally_right_but_]

Kpop stans are generally just treating their idols as Gods. They praise them for EVERYTHING-visuals, raps, whatever-even though sometimes it just overrated. God forbid you say anything remotely criticizing to their idols and you'll get burned at the stake. I have met so many fans like this and I, as a kpop fan myself, absolutely hate it.

[@impassionategods_]

mamamoo are seriously queen of vocal live stage. idk if they’re just so bad at lip synching or just never bothered to show us they’re lip synching when they have to 😂 (which is very rare). it’s sad that because of the pandemic, all “live” stages are pre-recorded and undoubtedly have gone through many stages of editing, and “typical” korean media, they want their artists to be as perfect as possible and just edited their vocals into pre-recorded version

[@manishajakhar9651]

In concerts and live stages you can find out if they are singing live In pre recorded stages it is just almost impossible to find out if it is lip sync They might be singing live but the company edited it so much that it sounds like lip sync

[@filgypsy31]

We take pride that they are the worst in lipsynching😂😂

[@kiki13451]

They’re so bad at lip syncing LOL similar to when they first used the face mics 😂😂. But watching Hwasa specifically you can tell why because they have such extreme adlibs and I don’t think you can do random adlibs prerecorded like that but idk. It’s like you’re stuck with a vanilla show rather than exploring when live

[@raisya_hyruko1415]

@@filgypsy31 yeah it's honor pride to MAMAMOO and MOOMOOS😅😂

[@sophiaisis1679]

Solar will even admit it if they had to lip sync. She said it once or twice. They had to lip sync because the audio for the music award wasn't working well with them singing live

[@epmeats]

Just one more reason why D4 was blackpinks most superior era that they've yet to top. 🤷‍♂

[@kevind9063]

it says released in 2015 which wasn’t🤨

[@mayayoung5405]

Absolutely not💀💀 during Kill this love they had the most energy and sang most of their stages live

[@nikemaraje5]

It was their most generic era tho

[@fudanshiakut5114]

I also notice the "market change" I think survival shows contributes a lot to this phenomenon. Back then, chungha got viral because her freestyle dance. Since then people expect every group's dance line to do the same. Gfriend's double speed dance also became popular on the exact same year, groups were asked to do double speed dance. Then chungha successfully debuted under IOI. She was asked a lot to do freestyle dance. Following the success of IOI, there were so many new survivals show where all the trainee came from various agencies. Many of the agencies sent powerful dancers rather than powerful vocal. They know the show can manipulate the singing skills but can't do the same for dance skills. That's why the later survival shows has less skilled vocalist rather than the older survival shows. Not too mention after the pandemic era people got so bored and tiktok became way more popular than ever. So people start using it and do the dance trends. That's all making dance skills way favorable than singing. Back then we had immortal songs, now we have SWF. Back then idols do high note battle, now they do dance challenges. There are so rare idols who do sing challenges on tiktok. They really do pay attention to dance a lot by now.

[@junaimitsu]

we cant rlly blame the idols for this :( most of them performed live better. its disappointing these companies, producer, backstages wanting them to lip sync for the most stage when we want to hear their real voice so bad ;;;; I dont think 4th gen is also as talented as 3rd but they barely have a chance to show off their vocals :(

[@sunshineinthesky2532]

Yes, idols don't always have the control over the post production process. I do think that's it's not like 3rd/4th gens are less talented than 1st/2nd gens, it's just that earlier idols ofc have more experience and have been trained for longer period of time, and also they had the opportunity to show it too back then, so it only make sense. I'm sure if the newer gens are given the opportunity to showcase themselves for real in the vocal ability, they'd be less criticized and can shine as bright as they deserve.

[@winteriscoming4407]

stacy is holding the kpop flag actually. they did their best

[@theiridezxent]

Of all the 4th gen right now, I can say that Stayc really did great of being stable while singing live. As a rookie group, that is one of a heck talented group they got there. You can hear their voices and breathing even with minimal backtracks. Stayc is literally bringing back live singing performance even debuting during pandemic. edit: some of ya'll mention skz & itzy, I do agree that they are great in performing live but most of their songs are actually focused on rapping and has few parts that actually belts out high notes. Also, comparing live vocals of those who debuted in 2017-2018 to those with 2019-2020 is ??? ofc they will have more live performance... anyway, stayc will always be slayc.

[@gbmnbm4154]

Weeekly, stayc, ateez, treasure, these groups sing live with hard performances showing it’s possible

[@wvsmn]

and oneus

[@maribellily8793]

Treasure Too

[@issanagae2925]

nmixx too

[@gianetessitore808]

(g)i-dle

[@luisab3079]

Thank you for this video; it's not like 4th gen idols just all can't sing, it's the entire industry that is doing more and more lipsynching, no matter what generation the group is from.

[@BlueRosette0023]

I actually have no problem with Taeyeon not singing in music shows cause I already how capable she is and with how SM manages their artists comeback stages, I doubt they would even allow her to sing live unless she's singing a ballad. Everyone sone or any TY fan knows that she performs best when she's doing a concert where there is a live band. Have you seen the fancams in her concerts?!

[@melklee.05]

i actually love hearing idols' voice weavering while doing hard choreos, the sound of their breathing and their pure vocals it makes the song sound actually more alive

[@เส้นทางฝันของสาวน้อยขนมหวานพาก]

If I remember it correctly, Taeyeon’s last concert is held in 2020 or late 2019, so we have no doubt about her talent but I really don’t understand why SM choose to let their idol lip-sync despite having most powerhouses in company.

[@lisaluna931]

i think it was early 2020 where covid only happened in W. And SM choose full lypsinc for their artist bcs of the protocols maybe (?) or safety (?) I mean, Im more than sure that taeyeon still can do a lot with her voice (hello INVlogU, and recording behind haaha) Also, I really cant get mad bcs we dont pay for those contents XD its not like we paid for 4hours prerecorded SMTown Virtual Concert, right hahaha

[@shotanextdoor]

Imagine going from holding your microphone in your hand and ripping out your vocal chords singing your own song while dancing to now just..... holding the microphone 😭 If I had to use an example off of the top of my head, TXT had multiple performances with physical microphones and yet, not once were those microphones turned on. Most of their performances were pre-recorded and a lot of Moas like to say that it's live but babe, Kai is throwing himself around the stage with that mic stand and his voice is not faltering at all 💀 (this isn't hate, I actually really like the boys and their songs). And I don't even wanna start with Aespa, it's almost as if SM built them as perfectly manufactured robots to the point that if they sang live and you could hear their voice naturally wavering because of the choreography, they would be deemed "untalented". And the fact that SM is known as the company with "vocal strength" but they never let their idols show off that strength is baffling to me. Not to mention that now choreo is made to break every bone in your body to the point that even if you tried to sing, you wouldn't be able to from the immense amounts of movement happening. Like, look at NMIXX who just debuted. Their choreo is literally made up of so much jumping and leg twisting, hell, one move is literally them turning their whole body around from the ground.. tf? The only group that I can confidently say I hear partially sing or really try to sing live is Ateez even if their choreo is made up of so much like body thrusting and shit 😭 What's the point of holding a mic when you aren't even using it? For "aesthetic" purposes??? Live singing in the 1st, 2nd and the half of the 3rd gen went from being an necessity to now being just a "oh, we'll let you do this once just so people don't attack you" 💀

[@melisaangela]

TXT was debuted in 2019 and they're growing mostly in pandemic era, so yea...

[@withstayc730]

STAYC and PURPLE KISS also a 4rd gen girl group who was live singing, sometime lip sync!

[@수비니비니-j1m]

Are you sure you watch all txt performance tho? Most of them maybe prerecorded just like what you said but some of them was live. Not sure tho what song did u mean by using actual hand mic. 0x1 love song has some live stages and also no rules which is bside, which is have many hard moves/choreo, they sang that live just using usual mic for performance not actual hand mic. You can check it out by urself I dont mind if idols use prerecorded stages atleast they have some live stages to proves they can actually sing their own song live. But Not if idol using prerecorded stages/voices from debut stage until their recent stages. Not sure u're saying txt never once sing live, maybe you just missed their live stages. (Edit) That mic stand u mentioned was just a prop for the loser=lover perfomance 😭 ofc u cant hear their voice shaking or something coz its fake afterall. The real mic for loser=lover performance usually that one that in their face beside their mouth.

[@Rrrrahhhh]

Are you talking about loser lover mics? Lol they were just props they were actually singing through those small microphones

[@ranchpanda3530]

that's why I only watch STAYC's stage.... cz more than 50% of them are live.. even sometimes without vocal track. other than them I prever watch the MV

[@noorch7875]

As many kpop fans stated, the reason is simple and obvious, the industry as a whole (fans, knetz, specialists ...) Don't value live singing anymore just because it shows the flows in the idols (it shows that they are human beings who get tired when they sing and dance at the same time). Every company focus more on performance, choreo, charisma more than vocal performance and that's freaking sad personally I love row vocals that's why till this day I love SM artists acoustic performances especially EXO's

[@TheMschelsea91]

This is why 2nd and 3rd gen idols are superior. These days idols focus on the aesthetics, introducing acrobatic dance music, mash up experimental music. It's boring tbh because their repeated performances would get boring. It's for the same reason I listen to American pop. U can hear live-singing and some semblance of personal identities in their performances.

[@ispeakcockney5387]

Lol even the 2nd and 3rd gen idols lipsync now

[@TheMschelsea91]

@@ispeakcockney5387 yep but they are generally better vocalists than the 4th gens. Because they debuted at a time where singing ability is actually a requirement. With technological advancement and the type of music released, singing ability is not a requirement anymore vs dance and visual

[@enluviezen9343]

i agree. almost all groups have the same genre or concept that it got uninteresting. 2nd and 3rd gen have variety of genres and concepts that's why i never got bored during their time.

[@forevervictory8457]

3rd gen starts this trend..... i mean twice

[@TheMschelsea91]

@@forevervictory8457 what trend?

[@belletrocio2260]

To be honest some fans dont even care anymore if their idols can sing or not. some just care about performance (dance, projection) so long as the idol smile or wave and move their hips fans would pay. That is how low the kpop industry has become. You cant even ask idols now to sing on the spot since they would probably boycott the show nextime. If the fans would just demand for live performances and stop being so blinded, the big 3 would then go back to being purist. If the standard has gotten low its not because it is the "trend" its because the fans just allowed it. I mean some idols even got their unreleased album soldout even before their first debut (buying a product without even knowing that it works has become the trend, honestly) so why would you expect agencies to do better. The company's only objective is to earn. Why would they care if their product is good. if the market dont care about quality. Its just about supplying the demand (economics) if the demand is for manufactured talents that have subpar skills, then why go extra the mile, right? Maybe its the fans that should start changing their mindset lets go back to the "we deserve better" mentality like the old days. Where products were made to last for more than just 1 generation and more purposeful. Its time to ask for intrinsic value.

[@myhomegwalior6095]

But if don't care about the live .. it's our choice

[@belletrocio2260]

@@myhomegwalior6095 its your choice, i respect that because you chose to lower your standard you are going to get a shitty product. That is on you now and not the artist nor the agency. You chose it

[@samratbiswas598]

Actually yea.... The *singing* is nothing it's all bout visual now 😭💔 whether they sing or not ... Nowadays fans only care bout their idol's visual tbh and it's not false

[@somethingisnotrighthere3831]

I think your point about companies’ only prioritizing turning a profit is very important

[@forevervictory8457]

@@myhomegwalior6095 tf

[@be-g_y-do-cr_me]

Recently, I’ve been narrowing down the groups I stan. For emotional energy and because it’s exhausting.

[@LK-gb4ld]

I think this video was very much needed, since it seems like the blame for the lack of live vocals goes almost always only towards 4th gen idols. Every time I see someone complain about how "4th gen is just a dance show" they mention the lack of live singing, but clearly 2nd and 3rd gen groups lipsync as well, that's the current MAIN TREND. I'm pretty hopeful though, that especially after live audiences can come back to the music shows, live singing is going to become more popular again. Big companies (esp. SM) don't seem to be changing their course anytime soon, but this is just the chance for groups from smaller/mid-size companies to show their skillset, when the more popular groups are "holding something back". Just like StayC and ATEEZ take pride in their live stages and have gained recognition because of it, I think there will be more debuts as well of groups who market their live vocals heavily. I hope the changes can come sooner rather than later, since live stages have just that little something that keeps me going back to them. The songs aren't even my favorite title tracks from ATEEZ, but I've watched their The Real, Eternal Sunshine and Fireworks music show performances probably hundreds of times combined, because they are my favorite *live performances* - the energy just can't be captured in a studio version, and every stage is slightly different. (In case anyone wants to check out what I mean, here's a couple examples:) kzbin.info/www/bejne/d4TIln-Depued9U kzbin.info/www/bejne/ipW4p4qIitWbbbM kzbin.info/www/bejne/oHqskp97ntetibc

[@why7248]

that the real inkigayo stage is the most live stage on music shows i’ve seen IN YEARS. i stream it every week i swear, i can’t get over it

[@LadyTiferet]

Ateez sometimes get so pissed when a music show's sound engineers drown them out with a backing track, I remember Wooyoung especially looking like he was gonna throw his mic at someone a couple of times. Plus the rappers always making a point of singing away from a mic for a moment so that we can hear the difference or San's counting during The Real. They still get the real-time autotune and pitch correction treatment during some (many?) live performances but I don't think they have much of a choice in that regard (and sometimes it's of course an aesthetic choice to make the voice sound synthesised). But those stages for The Real were awesome, I remember they said they're using them to train for live singing while dancing for the concerts :D

[@senpaijecho]

as someone who's been into kpop for 10 years now, I can def see the difference and how live performances are less and less common, and it's sad bc it's not like the idols lack the talent

[@cynthiabell512]

The main reason why I want audience back in music shows, so kpop artists don’t have to pretend anymore Hope that the covid situation will be over soon

[@ericalee711]

2nd gen: vocals > dance Most of 3rd gen/4th gen: dance > vocals I think the reason that 2nd gen lip sync now is because they need to adapt to the more current trends, which is performance, also resulting in them lip syncing. In past 2nd gen performances, they stand still when it's their part or are doing less intense moves. While 2nd gen have at least proven their vocals in the past, newer groups haven't been able to because of the newer value on dancing and performance over vocals. This results in choreo being too difficult to sing live and the overall lower quality of vocals as dance is valued more.

[@choiryan4312]

3rd gen vocals slay man NCT, exo, BTS, red velvet, twice, seventeen are all great vocal groups

[@ericalee711]

@@choiryan4312 Oh of course there are some 3rd gen groups that have amazing vocals, like mamamoo are almost all main vocals! This is more towards the later half of 3rd gen. Unfortunately some of these groups still aren't recognised for their vocals tho because it was only their earlier career they sung live consistently and people more see them lip sync. On the other hand, some groups like suju or snsd sung live for over 7 years.

[@heenadhurwe_ce325]

@@ericalee711 nah ,just people put blind eye for 3rd gen vocal.3rd gen have lots of tour and concert especially bts ,which are full of live vocals ,performance.same with twice ,recent US tour ,but people like to claim twice can't sing ,when they haven't even watched them live.

[@dibidubu4168]

yeah, this seems true. there are always exceptions though - as a sone/shawol, there are a lot of great snsd/shinee dance performances that were also great lives, e.g. into the new world, the boys, sherlock, 1 of 1, etc. none of those dances are easy, even if they’re not as hard as a lot of 4th gen stuff nowadays. i don’t think it’s reasonable to expect anybody to always perform as well as debut snsd, but i also don’t think it’s UNreasonable to expect them to do it at least sometimes. i also think the reason for 2nd gen lip sync now is more complex than that, e.g. there was no reason why taeyeon HAD to lip sync all the weekend stages when most snsd songs had at least some live stages. weekend isn’t harder than the boys or even lion heart. it seems like the trend is just lip syncing tbh, not lip syncing because the performance is harder. honestly i think a lot of it is down to covid too :(

[@johysjofdj]

@@choiryan4312 well yeah there are a bunch of quality singers from 3rd Gen; but they are still below 2nd Gen Singers; don’t get me wrong I love some 3rd Gen more, but if we talk who are the best; they all belong to the 2nd Gen, if we talk about technique , quality and top tiers vocalist the order could probably be 2nd>>3rd>>>>>>>>>>>> 1st=4th Gen but only cos 1st Gen idols vocalists are a few so is hard cos they are good bus not as good as the 2nd and 3rd ( with some exceptions clearly) and 4th there are a lot, but they aren’t that great either; some have potential and if they work their voices correctly they could be a thing; but is sad cos people doesn’t care about vocals anymore, so some vocalist focus on improve others things rather than singing….

[@windwakergirl7]

I'm gonna be really dramatic and go on a long winded rant for a sec. Life right now has been ass but one of the highlights of it has been Kpop. I've technically been a fan since 2010 but I didn't REALLY get into it until 2014. Kpop used to hit so good for me that I always turned to it when I needed a pick-me-up. But I shit you not, NMIXX's new song has made me feel like crap since I've heard it. Because it's everything I hate about "new" kpop. Loud rapping, too much noise, over complicated dances (I don't mind it but the second I see it I know they are never going to sing live.), ect. ect. Also personal gripe, not having an audience has made watching performances, especially repeat performances, WAAAY more boring to watch. I never realized how having people cheer the members names at the beginning and end or shouting out the words in the songs could impact a stage. It just makes it more meaningful. And since their not singing live anyway, their is literally no point to watching them past like one or two. If the only thing that changes from stage to stage are the outfits I'm just not gonna care about watching it.

[@windwakergirl7]

Edit: Used the wrong *there like twice

[@JL-jg8tr]

I agree. Sad and not worth it.

[@hikun3831]

Tru to listen to a group named Treasure. Almost of their songs are fresh and their vocals was also top tier and they're singing it live , so check it out.

[@Maria-uv9pd]

I think idols really miss the energy of live audiences too. Also, you should check out the Nmixx debut stage-it was live and the did pretty well. As far as recent music not being to your taste, don't worry, trends come and go - they'll probably cycle back to your preference.

[@minaisfab17]

I very much agree with you. I'm able to find music from this recent era that I enjoy, but not from the REALLY popular groups, bc I despise their sounds.

[@lya5577]

Companies prioritizing a perfect image is partly the fault of the public that always expects perfection from idols, at any minor mistake they have they make very cruel comments

[@jenniferhuang3396]

appreciate the amount of research you put into this!

[@jeorjjia]

to be honest, even with taeyeon's newest dingo killing verse, they decided to touch it up in post as if she hasn't been singing for almost 16 years?? it was just kind of uncanny hearing every note being sung perfectly in pitch when i *know* how good she sounds live (eg. her begin again performances in berlin) edit: jesus christ the comments. first of all, i've been a taeyeon bias for 8 years, this comes out of no place of hatred for her. second, nowhere am i blaming taeyeon for this or even SUGGESTING she can't sing. this is specifically about DINGO over-pitch correcting her voice, making it sound tinny and robotic, which everyone and their mother knows *she.* *doesn't.* *need.* especially when they're trying to pass the video off as completely "live and raw" vocals with no post-editing.

[@vocallegend8381]

I noticed it too

[@tamarlevy5949]

i don't doubt king taeyeon's voice, but with how relaxed she looked while hitting some of the notes, i'm not sure if she was singing everything live edit: this is not hate, this is only my opinion, i'm not an expert or anything pls be nice to me

[@ReadIT_Storie]

same if you compare it to iu dingo, you can clearly see the difference

[@sjdess]

​@@tamarlevy5949 she was definitely live. you could see her working to produce the notes through her mouth movements, tongue position, chest, hand movements & so on. but they unfortunately did add editing to some of it. edit: wait, so initially i agreed with OP that they added editing. but OP has later clarified that by editing she thinks they've pitch corrected taeyeon. the only editing i picked up was the addition of reverb (basically just an echo effect, most notably during drawing our moments) which is NOT the same as autotune or pitch correction. i'm just wondering where they heard pitch correction?

[@seungyoon6775]

@@tamarlevy5949 What a weird comment. You can definitely see how she sings (look at her movements) & added her own little runs that are different from the cd.

[@luukassl]

I remember when AOA or After School’s or 9muses live performances were sooo interesting because they were live or mostly live and it gave a better feel than just boring dance practices on stage all the time

[@marioscousin7525]

Tbh, kpop these days really focus on stage presence, or you can say dance well. I think because they can manipulate how they sing but can't manipulate how they move, so it's really rare to see idol performing without autotune. World changes, i know it, but that's kinda sad :(

[@LnRit02]

and the worst part is that the majority of idols don’t even have a proper grasp on stage presence. going through the dance steps flatly and winking/smirking at the camera a few times is what the majority do, and that is not by any means how you give a captivating performance.

[@Maria-uv9pd]

Well, I'm inclined to be generous, especially to the rookie groups. They haven't had live audiences to get energy and real-time feedback from. Hopefully, as things get going again, these groups will pick up some of these performance skills.

[@SianaGearz]

I don't think there is stage presence without the voice to go with it. Movement and eyes/face expression and and voice it's all part of the performance.

[@LnRit02]

@@SianaGearz very true. the voice itself is a big part of how performers make themselves expressive/interesting

[@kimayaa1158]

Too much hard choreo its not good... As someone who loves dance seeing too much its not that good and confusing :')

[@hanguyenhoang902]

My idol tries to sing live when she is on Vlive. I don't think she is very good in technique, but i love how she is singing LIVE for us. You can search HeeJin cover Vlive, you can see many videos.

[@SpaceKarenMonkeyKiller]

Why would companies risk a viral mistake with live vocals when 99% of kpop fans cant tell a difference and will praise their idol anyway. How many times have read comments with thousands of upvotes about how stable someone's vocals are during lip synced performances. Where's the incentive to sing live?

[@antoniodharmawan6652]

If you guys still doubt Taeyeon singing skill in Dingo then watch her Begin again and comment me if you still disagree with her skill, but dont judge book by its cover if you dont know the FACT !!!

[@alicexSONEx]

7:23 DDD came out in 2018. I got really scared when I read DDD is from 2015, I felt way older than I am hahaha.

[@McKavian]

It's truly sad, all of the fakeness. Red Velvet has repeatedly proven that they don't need autotune/lip syncing. I get that it's necessary to use it someone in whichever group is ill and loses their voice - The Show Must Go On, after all. But, most of these groups don't need the 'help' that's forced upon them.

[@chayshai]

Um Oh Ah Yeh was an amazing era... I miss adlib Mamamoo!

[@Warriormoomoo]

Samee

[@benedictusvito2710]

Taeyeon sing in begin again is the best way to show that she can sings live very good. In my opinion, now almost of allmushow stage really just give us sort of "perfect" things, like the visuals, sounds, dances etc. But the live vocals is not the priority, and its really makes me sad and miss the past when all sings live, doesn't care if its perfect or not. Tbh I prefer live vocals than perfect dance with perfect sound (from the recorded songs). Pleaseeee kpopp, just normalize again vocal singing and not perfect dance in the stage, no need "perfect things" that ruined all.......

[@wrappie]

btw can i say im so happy seeing youre including ikon, especially when rhythm ta was one of their debut titles and they always sang it live despite the hard choreo, theyre really one of the best bgs in terms of live singing. their concerts are amazing! especially i love how donghyuk does his part in rhythm ta in concerts. i wish we could hear yyy or their kingdom perfs live for once tho, it looks so ridiculous when they use pitch correcting and prerecord for people who dont need it lmao their kingdom stages were so funny they didnt even TRY

[@JL-jg8tr]

I love Red Velvet live. They have beautiful voices and don’t need to lip sync. SM stop making your groups do this. I much prefer the imperfections that occasionally happen, to the robotic sounds of synchronized perfection. Ugh.

[@Shenaiscute]

Aespa taking a lot of heat

[@bm1709]

after this, i still believe Live singing can be trend again... 😊

[@CGKIFR025]

Its understandable if they have crazy dance. They can't balance between vocal and dance at the same time. But now, even if its only singing or little bit dance, they're lypsing too! I mean, the more you sing, the more confident and improve your vocal too, but the company always thinking about perfection by using lypsing and autotuned. That's why sometimes we see some idol can't sing very well when they're in encore or ballad

[@erikako1030]

Instead of "Live Sing", shows should label "Live Dance" instead if they are just gonna be a prettier version of a dance video. I don't think idols are afraid to sing live. It feels more like the industry is trying to achieve absolute perfection in performances and decides to eliminate "live sing" because it is impossible to sing perfect while delivering visual stunning dance act.

[@soomi]

The issue lies with the audience who stopped caring for real vocals and real live performances. They do not research anymore on what they should be hearing and how live is supposed to sound like. They just blindly accept or think that pre-recs are 'live'.

[@tingle2323]

New idols are talented too only difference that now companies are very much focused on profit so they put the things which ppl feel pleasure not joy.. Otherwise kpop idol and not talented, doesn't fit well together

[@Jere-iy2yv]

As a nugu stan, I actually still hear live vocals fairly often but mostly with annoying backtrack sadly... Its a shame companies/broadcasters dont give the girls and boys a chance! Most of the time you really cant hear their singing skills well until they do a vlive and then youre sometimes just shocked at how amazing they are

[@meriemkim7009]

The number of music show stages decreased definitely from the lack of audience like what's the point it promoting with a very demanding schedule without meeting your fans

[@CA-wh3yf]

I must say Purple Kiss also has amazing singing skills, ot7 can sing and more than that. They never miss a chance to sing live in every vlive they have.

[@snls5855]

can we talk about our gem Dayoung singing live in 2022, so loud, over a loud-ass backtrack during Super Yuppers stages? like my jaw really dropped when I heard her

[@ezrairene5503]

Super Yupper is my def my favourite 2022 releases so far, that song is just perfection

[@antonia9450]

Yes WJSN has a lot of live stages, can you link me with this one please?

[@snls5855]

@@antonia9450 kzbin.info/www/bejne/mHvXmJh_j9-aisk

[@ninechanie]

Sm trended the Live Singing, then they brought back lipsyncing, so I think, if SM let their idols sing 100% again, other companies will follow. LMAO. In other words SM is the first block in the domino kekw

[@alexwhite7680]

However on smtown lives Super Junior were the only who were singing live 🙃

[@catmerchant8699]

I think we're forgetting that because of covid live stages were limited so more idols were singing lip sync recently because there was no audience... also idols don't only prove their vocals on stages, they also appear on radio shows, and promote with other things live Dingo music (killing voice, sero live), waiting room live, weekly idol/idol room, its live, etc, so they chances to prove their vocals.

[@lili.roses.jasmine]

Honestly, i miss kpop old era

[@Sandra.Maphole]

I'm sad that Beast/Highlight never gets mentionned in the live/lipsync discourse... They always used the MR to help with the tricky parts of their songs but have consistently went to music show with live perfs... Even after they went independent. Though I resent some of the shows for putting some MR over their perfs when airing sometimes when it's clearly not there on their fancams... Yoseob's brain promo was most impressive to me. The song is clearly hard to sing (no time to breathe at times) but he still went breathless rather than to lipsync which is... impressive in today's climate for main vocalists.

[@dibidubu4168]

this!! yeah beast/highlight live stages have always been great

[@Sandra.Maphole]

@@dibidubu4168 Hoping they'll continue singing live for their next comeback! It was nice seeing Btob's stages for The Song 😊

[@lilkirsche]

YES!!! Finally someone mentioned one of the greatest talents from 2nd until today. ❤️

[@quantumleap1491]

I am being honest here, as someone who took choir I was told vocals aren’t always important and these companies now are making major mistakes by doing this, what’s the point of having a “Singing” group if there is no singing, it’s a disgrace to music when you lip sync because it’s lazy, and it takes away from the persons real talent, I listen to a lot of rock and metal and a lot of them have to have powerful voices and no matter what anyone says lip sync is not a good thing it’s lazy and manipulative.

[@novitawulansari8315]

Now... even their encore stage use backtrack vocal

[@gailstorm0817]

It's because of the choreography really. The latest generation of kpop idols have some increasingly difficult choreography that singing live is nearly impossible. You really can't deny that people love great choreography and dancing. But because of it the vocals become less important.

[@SianaGearz]

I think there is a solution in there. I get easily bored when all members perform the same choreography. Formation choreography has to me so much more expression, like it's a tool, you're leaving it on the table. But it can do another thing, like you can give your singing member less movement, and then build up the movement in a pattern around them. But i think the camera work needs to adapt to that as well. Like, if you have a formation, cropping it out is super unfortunate, you have to shoot wider, and maybe have some dedicated moments for near focus. But i think wider shot is also more live stage feeling fundamentally. I don't know about the obsession with super close like often face only nearly shots. We have 4K monitors and TVs. Even 1440p youtube on a 1080p monitor is quite detailed. For face, i could watch face cam. I don't need the stage to stand in for the MV either. A stage can stand on its own legs.

[@layloo5244]

Siana Gearz right. Now we have ‘face cams’ a new thing of this generation. Just staring at a idols face while they perform

[@nikemaraje5]

@@SianaGearz you're right

[@Snowboard4]

Eu sinceramente prefiro danças menos difíceis com artistas que possuem boa qualidade técnica e saibam entreter seu público e cativá-los por isso. Parece que as pessoas gostam de definir se você é um bom ou mal perfomancer pela intensidade da dança, não é bem assim! Parece que para ser k-idol, saber cantar não parece ser mais necessário

[@commercialfree]

I think covid has a lot to do with this trend. If there are no live audience to please or do fan service there is no point in doing it live. Also the trend of having more complicated choreography contributed to this too, it would be hard to sing live while dancing hard and not loose breath. I don't mind idol groups/singers lip syncing, what do you expect from them? By definition idols technically are not singers (they won't be perfect all the time) but at least do live singing at weekend music shows (Mcountdown, music bank, mucore and inkigayo) and pre-recorded live/ backtracks at lesser music shows.

[@justkeepgroovin]

Honestly lately as I start to watch some performance and I realize that the artist isn't singing or rapping live, I immediately stop watching it even if the outfits or the dance is pretty. I just love singing and actually hearing different voices and ways of singing in many situations, but when it's prerecorded... there's basically nothing to enjoy anymore. The only exception may be award shows, where I do watch such stages. I'm just upset that singers don't really sing live anymore, there are only few singers that I could think of, that actually do sing live at least a few times.

[@yoonalimlimlim9130]

KPOP NOWADAYS SUCKS! PERIOD! it's not about the artists, it's THE SYSTEM!! i prefer light dance but singing live. It's okay to dance hard and lipsync but please LIVE PERFORMANCE SINGING ONLY LIKE DINGO AND LIVE SHOULD NOT BE AUTOTUNED!!! what's the point of being singer if you never sing 😭 AND YOU HATERS, IT'S OKAY TO MAKE MISTAKES AND CRACK SOMETIMES, YOU JUST TRAUMATIZE IDOL TO SINGING LIVE!!! AND ALL COMPANY SHOULD STOP THIS LIPSYNC SYSTEM (especially sm cz it's waste to their golden vocalists)

[@jenlolo8902]

I remember in 2014 or 2015 the was mandated or that they have to sing live in music shows and they did for a while but what happen now is ridiculous, I clearly remember this, I'm going to look it at

[@square.159]

I appreciate your explanations about the trends and history of lip syncing in K-Pop at the end ! Very interesting video.

[@bluvillage]

20 stages seems crazy to me especially when they comeback 3-5 times a year?? im glad that the amount of times they perform has decreased but i wish they just sang live ☹️. there is literally no point of watching fancams except for the dancing and visual aspect

[@happymusic6910]

prerecording already existed back in 2010. I remembered Jessica pre recorded her Run devil run performance with snsd because she was very sick to sing live and the rest of the girls sang live. And it was already pretty common to use pre record on first week promotion bec of lack of practice with the song.

[@yanicles7084]

I think that's why i love watching nmixx's performances. Not the best song out there but hey, they are singing all the time 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@noriawawa9073]

Agree, although their song is not everyone liking but i love their try to sing live

[@keirazephyr509]

Like it annoys me how reveluvs attack aespa for not singing live.. or hybe stans attacking sm for that.. rarely anyone sings without backtrack often. It's also irritating how bcs of this people online measure a vocalist's ability based on live singing, and having a twisted narrative.

[@keirazephyr509]

Technically nowadays pop vocalist aren't on par with their seniors, and not just in kpop, but even outside. Ariana isn't close to a vocal trinity, and even worse with male singers. I can only think of adam lambert who has impressive vocals. In kpop we havent had a vocalist who can rival wendy ever since she debuted, while years before there are vocalist on par or even better (taeyeon luna hyolyn lina etc). Even praised main vocalists would pale in comparison with older leads. Ironically aespa is vocally strong for 4th gen.. and they never sing live. Nmixx has a very good vocal line, even compared to twice. Hopefully they have songs that can showcase it properly (o.o did but I think the instrumentals drowned lily's belt a lot).

[@noodles6281]

What appealed to me to Mamamoo was their live singing and ab-libbing, sad they don't really do that anymore.

[@cykavolk]

I feel you... I love MAMAMOO, they're always so honest, but I hate what fame is slowly doing to them

[@azlanrahmat7418]

@@cykavolk it has nothing to do with fame. It's more about preservation and health. No way can they belting live continously for hours in a concert environment.

[@cykavolk]

@@azlanrahmat7418 Not the same about ad-libs, tho

[@nicoler5713]

​@cykavolk I get you, I also loved their ad lib era. I don't watch their new stages nearly as religiously as I used to watch their rookie days ones but... it's not just "fame", at least not if you mean it in the conceited, not bothering to try way that usually implies. Take this with a grain of salt because I cannot remember the source, but I am pretty sure the girls have mentioned that thinking up those ad libs was difficult for them. Trying to keep it new and fresh is hard, and as cool as they were, I can totally understand that - when they're in higher demand, busier than ever - those are going to go. Furthermore, those ad libs do limit what they can do musically. Ad libs like we got in UOAY wouldn't work in a song like Aya, WAWN or Wind Flower. The girls (and RBW) want to develop musically and the fun ad libs could have held them back in that regard. Lastly, I'm sure the ad libs and constant changes to things was also a pain for the music shows too. It is probably a lot easier behind the scenes if you're just doing a standard performance with minimal changes.

[@suckerfortaeyeon2458]

I trust taeyeon's vocal capabilities even if they'll touch up her performances or make her lip sync. That woman doesn't have the highest range and the most great tenchnique, but she's very experienced and tried a lot of genres which made her vocals and herself versatile.

[@ifyouseekme6694]

Her range is not the biggest but her technique is actually solid.

[@twinkle4599]

Nowaday the kpop industry focus more toward their performance and visual, they feel like the vocal doesnt really matter anymore even if their idol can sing really well :( it really sad that vocal arent important like before.

[@messymont]

I really hate it when the company just make this kind of decision for the idol. They prioritize ‘perfect’ look and dance than the actual singing or the ‘performance’. I kind of understand the music shows, but the year-end award shows are also slowly turning in to lip-sync for your legacy stages. The annual award shows have been boring (I understand the COVID situation, but still…) when it used to be an explosive, energetic, concert-like experience for the audience. The idols themselves cannot come up with new or fun stage concept anymore, and it just turns into a regular music show with bigger stage and bigger audience, which is a shame when you know that’s when the idol should shine the most.

[@messymont]

One thing I also notice is that throughout 2020-2021 era, the idols have been interacting only to the cameras, so they streamlined every angle and movement to attract your attention on camera… but because the camera angle is fixed (the movement is probably too), it becomes repetitive really REALLY fast. There is almost no distinguish between different stages/shows. The camera locking angle exist pre-COVID, but back then at least the idols had audience so every stage has tiny different details based on how they interacted with their fans. And now, when live audience slowly coming back, it IS very clear that some idols are still interacting only to the camera in the performance. They are very aware where the cameras are, which one to look at and how they should position themselves to look ‘photogenic’. I feel like if I were one of the fans watching below, I would feel a bit weird when the idols care more about the camera than their living, breathing audience hahaha

[@kathleenfaye679]

Now I understand why I don't watch their performances often now because everything sounds the same.

[@notshynotme2458]

Kpop choreos have become a sensation so it has become more intense to the point that it's impossible to sing and dance at the same time.Especially starting a TikTok challenge with kpop choreos I guess these stuffs has pushed idols to become dancers and not performers.I really wish to see kpop stages with live vocals to see if these idols are really worthy to Stan or else they'll just be another dancer

[@LadyTiferet]

If it's your genuine wish then if you go thru the comments here you'll see people giving examples of young idols who do sing live whenever possible, it's not a completely lost art yet, there are some really cool performers out there.

[@aceangel3738]

I am looking forward to the progress of Purple Kiss those girls really have some pipes and they are all damn creative and talented. I hope they bring the change as their Seniors did😍😍😍😍 my Moomoo heart

[@oldaccount1194]

SM should just appreciate their older artists the fact they can still sing live even today Instead of forcing them to lip sync just for the sake of trends and money.

[@EXOcontents]

I wanna like this rep million times

[@wakaneut]

Hardly anybody cares about vocals anymore. Check most YT comments on any live music shows, "They're so pretty", "Give raise to the stylists!" "The cheo is crazy" "[insert faves here] is so energetic" "I love the concept" etc

[@sparkleevanagy]

Honestly I feel so bad that they don’t care about vocals anymore.it’s no more vocals which would make a song hit.yuju from gfriend the best 3rd gen idol regressesd a bit too due to constant high notes but I’m happy she’s getting better at her new company and always sings live.

[@teresa18870]

It’s low-key on us fans as well. Like seeing how momo from twice got absolutely slaughtered for not singing well in the more and more encore. Ofc these companies don’t want their groups to get caught out for not singing well and thus lowers their profit since ppl won’t support a group that can’t sing live /:

[@dkskiwi]

I agree BUT twice had been going for like 5 years when they released more and more (and honestly not much has changed since), wasn't that enough time to train her vocals to at least make her sound stable? Sehun and Kai are the only examples I know, everyone knows their vocals weren't all that great when exo debuted but they have gotten to a point in which they are better than stable, not only they can sing live now but it shows in their technique too that they are actually good at it. They turned critism and their own ambition and trained to get where they are, and it legit shows: they get more lines and solos now: more changes to show how far they've come. I know the public is A LOT harsher on women, and there is no argument to excuse the hell momo has had to go through since debut, but idk why she hasn't gotten around it.

[@aizen3347]

These companies should really stop making hard choreo like hun your singers not backup dancers

[@linozoaur]

One thing is that in 2018, everyone was shitting on blackpink for being “bad at singing live” and these days idols seem to be afraid of singing encore stages due to the standard of perfection they’re being held to. It’s sad that not even encore stages can be fun without fans criticizing and becoming more and more toxic everyday

[@hyejuhae]

exactly